ie8 fix

Microsoft's compatibility conundrum: When is it wrong to do the 'right' thing?

By | January 19, 2010, 9:54am PST

Over the past couple of days, on a couple of different fronts, Microsoft watchers have been musing about compatibility — or, to be more precise, backward compatibility.

In the case of Windows Mobile (WM) — where rumors about WM7 are ramping up at an almost iSlate-like pace — folks are wondering about reports that WM7 might not be backward-compatible with Windows Mobile 6.X. Meanwhile, on the Internet Explorer side of the house, , an exploit in IE 6 that affected Google in China has led a number of company watchers to wonder why Microsoft is continuing to support IE 6. Why not drop backward compatibility so as to force IE stalwarts to move to IE7 or IE8?

On the WM front, the issue of backward compatibility is less pressing than it is on the IE/Windows one. Microsoft has broken compatibility in the past when releasing new WM versions running on phones with different processors. While there is some indeterminate number of custom Windows Mobile apps out there which may have been written for WM6.X, there still aren’t more than a few hundred commercial WM apps in the Microsoft Marketplace for Mobile store. And you can be sure Microsoft will be prompt in getting its own apps (Office Mobile 2010, Silverlight, Windows Live, Bing, Zune, etc.) out for WM7.

The stakes are higher in Windows than Windows Mobile. Microsoft officials have insisted over the years that one of Microsoft’s biggest strengths is its commitment to providing backward compatibility. With more than 1 billion Windows users out there, Microsoft officials haven’t been willing (so far, at least) to create a new, smaller, less convoluted version of an operating system without thinking about how to continue to support the majority of existing apps and customers.

That “strength” also has become a great weakness for Microsoft, however.

Remember this August 2009 blog post from IE General Manager Dean Hachamovitch, where he explained why Microsoft wasn’t dropping IE6 support? Even though doing so would make life a lot simpler for developers who are tired of having to create different versions of their apps/services not just for browsers from different vendors, but for different versions of IE, Microsoft was not going to do it. Hachamovitch attributed the decision to a number of factors, including the fact that some IT departments are lacking the money to shell out for the latest hardware/software, as well as the existence of custom internal apps that require IE6.

(It’s still unclear exactly what the IE6/XP connection to Google is/was. Google hasn’t explained how it was hacked, though there are plenty of rumors about that, too.)

Microsoft officials know IE6 running on older versions of Windows is a security nightmare. But they still decided to stand by the company’s commitment to support IE6 on XP for the full lifecycle of those products. (In the case of IE6 on XP, I *think* that means Microsoft’s support will continue until support for XP SP3 ends, which seems to look like some time in 2010. If anyone has any better luck deciphering the many support caveats and can come up with a more accurate date, let me know.)

Update: Here’s the good news/bad news (depending on how you look at it): Microsoft officials say support doesn’t end for IE 6 on XP SP3 until April 8, 2014. So this IE6 backward-compat debate is going to drag on for quite a while….

Back to Microsoft’s conundrum. At some point, in order to truly advance IE and make it more standards-compliant, I’d assume Microsoft is going to have to drop IE6 compatibility. And in order to make any real changes in Windows, in terms of size, performance and complexity, wouldn’t the Softies also have to cut the cord and deliver an operating system with a new kernel? Midori, the so-called “successor to Windows,” is supposedly based to some degree on the Microsoft-Research-developed Singularity microkernel. The Midori team has been known to be debating how and if Midori will be backward-compatible with Windows.

One way around backward compatibility headaches is to use virtualization. But, as one of my readers recently noted, not all apps work well in a virtual machine running virtualized drivers. So maybe a preferable solution is to support two OSes simultaneously: Both WM 6.x and WM7. Both Windows and Midori (or whatever Microsoft’s next-generation OS ends up being). But what about proprietary IE and more standards-based IE? Should Microsoft continue along that dual path here, as well?

Speaking of WM7, I don’t have much new to contribute regarding all the new rumors showing up on various blogs and Wall Street missives. I can’t help but wonder whether talk of two versions of WM7 is simply confusion over WM7 and “Pink” phones/services. As I’ve noted before, Pink was supposed to be a set of consumer services (including a Zune music service) plus a phone or phones custom-made for the teen/20-something set which would carry Microsoft branding…. So your guess is as good as mine (or any of the others out there) as to what Microsoft will share about WM7 and/or Pink in a few more weeks at the Mobile World Congress.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Microsoft's compatibility conundrum: When is it wrong to do the 'right' thing?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
That may be a terrific,commonplace mulberry bags outlet sensation report.Exceptionally helpful to one who's just having the resouces about this aspect.It is going to of course assist teach me.
0 Votes
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Typo?
Resplendent 19th Jan 2010
"I *think* that means Microsoft?s support will continue until support for XP SP3 ends, which seems to look like some time in 2010."

I assume you mean SP2.
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Contributr
end of support
Mary Jo Foley Updated - 19th Jan 2010
Hi. I can't tell when the end of support is for XP SP3. It was released in 2008. SP support is 24 months, best I can tell. I don't think an SP4 is coming... So that's how I'm figuring my dates. There is no "end" date on the MS page for lifecycle support for XP SP3.

Update: This just in:

Here?s the good news/bad news (depending on how you look at it): Microsoft officials say support doesn?t end for IE 6 on XP SP3 until April 8, 2014. More here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean31

MJ
they still get an advantage from the fact that people
still have IE6 web sites, they will continue to support
IE6. No matter how much grief it causes everybody else,
including customers.
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Grief? Interesting
John Zern Updated - 19th Jan 2010
so they support IE6 for those that absolutelly need it for whatever reason, yet set Automatic update to update those that really don't need it to a newer version.

So how does that have MS causing "grief for everybody else"?

But now that it looks like an inside job at Google, does that automaticlly invalidate all your other posts where you claim that "[Who better to trust with your email, some sleazy admin at your company, or all the professionals at Google]"?
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@John Zern
Axsimulate 19th Jan 2010
The grief comes from IE6 being hacked all the time.
rest of us. Then the zillions of hours web sites
spend making sure that they are as compatible as
possible with IE6. Also do not forget that there
is less innovation as websites must live with a
very low common denominator.
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DonnieBoy, I'll bet your parent's house
John Zern Updated - 19th Jan 2010
that if MS dropped all support and everything from IE6, you would post (probally about 100 times) that this is more proof that MS doesn't care about it's users, otherwise they wouldn't have forced people into using a newer version

Am I close??

Of course I am.
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@Axsimulate
John Zern 19th Jan 2010
I agree. MS should just drop it.

But then again, the same people would just come back and say "see MS doesn't care about it's users", so what should they do?
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MicroSoft made its own bed ....
kd5auq 19th Jan 2010
.. and keeps messing it up with its half baked "proprietary MS only" solutions. Yes, it made them money, but now they have to pay the Piper by continuing to "honor" promises that should not have been made.
On the other hand they would not be as successfull if they didn't promise more than they could deliver.
The IE6 conundrum is just the lates.
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... and now they have to lie in it
Info-Dave 19th Jan 2010
It's more than a conundrum, it's a catch-22. If they stay compatible
with WM 6.x, they are incompatible with Windows 7, if they develop
something compatible with Windows 7, the WinMo 6.x base must do
everything over. That's the easiest decision; the WinMo 6.x is fading
fast, cut your losses.

Windows 7 is Intel only, phones are ARM based. Oops, need a new
kernel. Silverlight and .Net are proprietary solutions. And we still
haven't come to grips with all the Win32 code that needs to be
updated to WPF, that's gonna take a long time.

Microsoft did not maintain backward compatibility with IE6. That is a
major source of the problem. Developing Windows CE rather than
porting NT has hurt the mobile platform in the long run. As the phone
and the computer converge, Microsoft is least able to deal with it.
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Love to see market research
HollywoodDog 19th Jan 2010
I'd like to see market research on teens, and how many of
them would be eager to carry pink phones with Microsoft
branding and Zune services.
"Here you go sweetheart; I didn't get you the iPhone, but
this is even better - a Pink phone with Zune services and
Microsoft branding."
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You keep your iPhone, then
John Zern Updated - 19th Jan 2010
I'll get something with alot more functionality to it.

My wife really likes her ZuneHD. It' was a better purchase then getting her an iPod, which she said was "OK"

I guess fart apps aren't for everyone.
The Visual Studio team faced the backward-compatibility issue with VS 2010's new WPF-based editor, and the impact the changes would have on their partners who build VS add-ons that interact with the VS editor (e.g., component vendors, language vendors). They've done a superb job - they consulted with partners early to understand partners' concerns, made the call to largely break backward compatibility (shims still enable some backward compatibility), and communicated both the decision and technical details to partners early enough for partners to adapt without trauma. They kept partners updated as the VS 2010 release progressed, and provided top-notch technical support to the partners who participate in their VSIP program. The VS team has a long history of working closely with their partners, and they're very, very good at it. The rest of Microsoft could learn a lot by talking to the VS Platform and VSIP teams and adopting their methods.
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The 'right' thing is
Linux Geek 19th Jan 2010
GPleding windoze
to shareholders.

Then compensate every user for their PI$$ poor software we've endured for all these years.

But that would be the morally right thing when your company is the scourge of the computing industry.
0 Votes
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but then you'd be sitting alone in your basement apartment with nothing to do, while everyone else was out on a date at the movies, or something.

Maybe you could right some appologies, to compensate every user for your PI$$ poor trolls we've endured for all these years.

wink
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Linux trolls are invading this post!
MSFTWorshipper 19th Jan 2010
NT
Seriously... Anytime anyone mentions Microsoft, the usual suspects pop up, posting their usual tripe (which generally consists of dumping Windows, switching to Linux or Mac).

I'd be more surprised if they DIDN'T show up to post.
Quitting IE6 also means abandoning W 2000 -- the later
browsers don't install on it. It seems to me that there are
still a lot of live installations of the OS, even though it is off
support.
0 Votes
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You need to migrate, now!
Info-Dave 19th Jan 2010
According to Net Applications, Windows 2000 accounts for about 0.62%
of the people using the Internet. Your days started being numbered a
long time ago.
0 Votes
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And in some its not. For Windows itself backwards compatibility is important because Windows has billions of users. They don't keep a good amount of backwards compatibility and businesses big and small and regular consumers will jump ship. It would be nice if MS could have a totally new OS but they need go give people a compelling reason to switch from old but backwards compatible to new and shiny.

Now with WinMO they don't have this problem that badly. WinMO has been loosing customers like crazy to newer OS'. I think a reboot for the mobile OS is their best bet. Sure they may loose some of their core users, but they were loosing users as is. This way they'll gain new users and I think for every old user that jumps ship there will be 3 that are happy to give it a try. If they didn't do this what would have been their other option? To keep trying to skin WinMO 6.X? I'm looking forward to seeing what MS is going to do with WM 7 and I hope it works out for them.

As for IE6, the only reason they've kept it going is because if they didn't they'd go from 60% market share to probably 30% over night. They're just holding on to what market share they have until they come out with IE9 which will hopefully be something brand new.

Its about time MS tries something new with their dwindling tech. In some cases they have to keep backwards compatibility, but in others they don't and they know this. With WinMO they're jumping off the cliff in hope that the water is deep enough and thats what they need to do. MS needs to take more chances and if this works out for them I think they will continue to take more chances. They have go with the time and not look back like they have been. If they keep looking back, trying to please everyone the industry is going to pass them up.
Mary Jo can you source this "With more than 1 billion
Windows users out there".
I see such a vast number of PCs going into landfill, I
wonder if the true figure is more like 200m, and all the
rest have gone into landfill.

Out of interest, if this isn't cumulative licenses sold, I
wonder what the cumulative licenses sold total is?

I know there are 4billion java mobile phones out there in
use, with a massive number being sold and the equivalent
going into landfill every year.

(wasteful society or what)
I'm interested in the methodology. Does anyone know what the
methodology used is. I don't see anyone counting the PCs that I see
going into landfill. Clearly it's far easier to count the sales.
It also isn't easy to calculate how many are stuck in boxes, or
gathering dust, never turned on. (my brother is the worst, he's got like
12 or something and sometimes uses 1, and I know lots of [guys
mainly] like this).

http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2219846/pc-
population-hits-billion
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Reports saying that WinMo 7 will be totally new, with new interface.

So all existing handsets are obsolete. All those Windows Mobile handsets, famous for their stylus pens... out they go. To the trash. Obsolete!

This is progress, folks. New platform = new hardware. Out with the old.
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Partly Cloudly
jabailo1 19th Jan 2010
Aren't we all going to be browsing cloud apps from Freescale netbooks that cost $199?

Or was that last year...
0 Votes
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They shoot themselves in the foot by encouraging people to write crappy web applications that would be understood by IE.

"Don't worry, you don't need to know how to write proper HTML, IE will understand crappy HTML"

So, now when they want to go to standards, they cannot leave all those applications behind.

For Ripley's
0 Votes
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I can somewhat understand that Legacy Apps sometimes require legacy versions of Windows or Windows Components.

While most cases have had more than adequate time to find another solution sometimes it comes down to major $$$$ for some institutions. I still don't agree with them "dragging their feet" as at some point they will HAVE to upgrade.
BUT...
MS should take those legacy components and patch them to restrict from Internet usage and limit them to Intranet usage where the custom apps reside.
If the institutions can't live with that then they need to find an alternative to using the older components as it is in their best interest and the best interest of all Internet users for these vulnerable components to be exposed to the Internet in any fashion.
0 Votes
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RE: Microsoft's compatibility conundrum: When is it wrong to do the 'right' thing?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
That may be a terrific,commonplace mulberry bags outlet sensation report.Exceptionally helpful to one who's just having the resouces about this aspect.It is going to of course assist teach me.

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