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Microsoft's Ho: The Kin is not a 'Microsoft phone'

By | April 12, 2010, 1:55pm PDT

Summary: Roz Ho — the former head of Microsoft’s Mac Business Unit, who became the leader of PMX (Premium Mobile Services) in 2007 — wanted to make sure I knew that Kin isn’t a Microsoft phone. It’s a Windows Phone, she said.

For more than two years, I’ve been writing about Microsoft Corporate Vice President Roz Ho’s baby, but she and I haven’t been allowed to talk. Today, as the curtain lifted on Kin, the Microsoft Pink phones, I was finally granted a phone conversation with Ho.

Ho  — the former head of Microsoft’s Mac Business Unit, who became the leader of PMX (Premium Mobile Services) in 2007 — wanted to make sure I knew that Kin isn’t a Microsoft phone. Neither of the models announced today are going to be Microsoft-branded. The Kins are Sharp phones, she said, and Sharp is just one of a number of Microsoft OEM partners on the mobile front.

“This (Kin) is another Windows Phone,” Ho said.

I asked her whether other OEMs had been considered to produce the Kin phones and was told “Microsoft talks to a a lot of partners” (which I am taking as a polite “no”). I asked whether different OEMs might be developing/delivering future Kin phones and was told no comment.

My take-away: Even though it’s not Microsoft-branded (beyond being a Windows Phone), the Kin is more like the Xbox and the Zune than it is like a PC, in terms of it being a “Microsoft” product.

There’s lots Microsoft isn’t commenting on, regarding Kin, in spite of the fact the phones launched today. Microsoft isn’t commenting on device pricing, pricing of the cloud features for the phones, how/if the Kins will connect at some point to the Xbox/Xbox Live service and how Microsoft plans to make money with the devices, targeted at the 15- to 25-year-old set. (I’d guess Microsoft is planning to charge consumers for the unlimited photo/video storage in the cloud that its execs mentioned today, as well as charge for other Kin services, but so far, the company isn’t sharing those particulars.)

“This is a two screens and a cloud strategy,” she quipped, noting that the Kins will connect to PCs and provide users with a variety of cloud services that build on top of the company’s Windows Live store, just like Windows Phone 7 will.

Ho said the Kin team has learned a lot from the Danger team that Microsoft acquired in 2008. Microsoft isn’t using any of the Java-based Danger code in the new phones but did incorporate the services thinking and overall “experience” approaches from the Danger team, she said.

“We stayed true to our vision” which Microsoft decided upon before it bought Danger, Ho said. “Online cloud services were integral to the phone” from the get-go, she said. (I guess that partly explains why I first heard of “Pink” as a set of premium mobile services aimed at consumers, and only later heard Microsoft also was doing its own phone.)

Ho said to expect the Kin/PMX team to share its learnings with the larger Windows Phone team, and the Windows Phone 7 team — and vice versa.

“Over time, expect to see a lot of alignment” among Windows Phone 7 and Kin, she said. When I asked whether this would mean we’d see things like the Kin Studio show up for Windows Phone 7 users, she declined to comment.

With the Kin, “we really started with a clean sheet of paper,” Ho said. “We knew we were going to do a social phone and we really kept our focus on that.”

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Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Microsoft's Ho: The Kin is not a 'Microsoft phone'
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
What i achieve troublesome may well be to find a blog page nfl wholesale which might seize me for only a instant but your running a blog online site differs. Bravo.
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Microsoft's brand = poison
gjafg 12th Apr 2010
It proves that Microsoft knows that its brand name is poison. People generally don't want to buy a product with the Microsoft name stamped on the front.

Microsoft's famous trait of "eating its own dogfood" has come into play again with Kin. By replacing Java with proprietary Silverlight, it has isolated itself from the J2ME ecosystem that every feature phone user enjoys. Not clever when you're a minor player in the phone biz.
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I stand corrected
Rama.NET Updated - 13th Apr 2010
>>Plain wrong J2ME!=Silverlight.J2ME is server side, Silverlight is client side. With that simple fact you proved yourself as an hate spewing machine.
--Ram--

Sorry, I read it as J2EE. My old eyes. I stand corrected.
--Ram--
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JME is client side
garyrusso@... 12th Apr 2010
I agree that the response is from a close minded Microsoft hater but need to correct you about J2ME.

JME (formerly J2ME) is client side.

Please check => http://java.sun.com/javame
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Java EE = server, Java ME = client
CobraA1 13th Apr 2010
Jave EE is their enterprise edition, which is
normally put on a server.

Java SE is their standard edition, which is
normally put on consumer devices like PCs.

Java ME is their micro edition, which is designed
for small devices like phones.
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My bad, I read it as J2EE. Sorry. n/t
Rama.NET 13th Apr 2010
n/t
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Disagree.
CobraA1 13th Apr 2010
"People generally don't want to buy a product
with the Microsoft name stamped on the front."

A very small group. Most people don't care
which brand it is, as long as it gets the job
done.

"Microsoft's famous trait of 'eating its own
dogfood' has come into play again with Kin."

Do you even know what the phrase means?

To eat ones own dogfood is to use the products
you develop or create in your own business.

It's a practice that IMO more companies should
be doing. It helps to highlight the strengths
and weaknesses of the product to the people who
develop the product.

"By replacing Java with proprietary
Silverlight, it has isolated itself from the
J2ME ecosystem that every feature phone user
enjoys."

Not every phone. I haven't looked much at
feature phones, but Apple's striking down stuff
like Java in their smart phones.

In addition - just because a phone has a
certain capability doesn't mean everybody is
using it. In particular, "feature phones"
aren't really expected to be as powerful as
smart phones, and aren't aimed at techies and
power users.
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Disagree, too
khazeem 13th Apr 2010
Comment: "People generally don't want to buy a product
with the Microsoft name stamped on the front."

Your response: "A very small group. Most people don't care which brand it is, as long as it gets the job
done."

Why that is not true - because people are slaves to marketing. In reality, MS is all that most people know. MS's success is not due to them being a trusted brand name or their products being good products, their success is due to being some what of a monopoly and marketing powerhouse.

With that being said, I know if I see MS on an item I stay away from it. Why? Because their product is not to be trusted. And its not about perfection, either. Nothing is really perfect. But when you pay top dollar you would like it to be all that you pay for and MS's products have never been worth the money.

Therefore, To me that name is poison. And many of my friends and associates are the same way, of course, birds of a feather....

Anyway.... the the basic point that the first guy made about the MS brand is true. And MS knows it.

Oh... the rest of your post was right on but it says nothing to change the fact the MS's name is bad.
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Wrong, It proves it's not an MS phone
John Zern 13th Apr 2010
just curious as to why you can't seem to understand that?
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after a while...
Marco nn 13th Apr 2010
ha, ha... after a while...and remember, Windows 7 is NOT made by Microsoft ...like Office as well.

But...'Although the monkey might dress in silk, monkey it still is.'
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We should leave Steve Jobs out of this
John Zern 13th Apr 2010
And quit calling him a monkey!
0 Votes
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Yes..
Marco nn 13th Apr 2010
"Dance Monkeyboy" video
http://v
ideo.google.com/videoplay?docid=1274983729713522403#

Oops...

BTW: I really don't care about any Steve...but I could not resist...
0 Votes
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happy
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Give them some benefit of doubt
HollywoodDog 13th Apr 2010
I see your point; "this isn't my phone" isn't
exactly nailing one's trousers to the mast. But
maybe the point of this phone is to develop a
concept and you need a phone to do it, made by
someone who knows how to make a phone. If you
didn't have Sharp do it, you'd be rummaging
through cheap Chinese duplicators to come up
with something that may or may not work.
Perhaps they're hoping that the phone will be a
bit of an underground hit with the kids, and
they'll learn some lessons that two or three
iterations later will produce something mass
marketable, or at minimum spur more development
of the cloud infrastructure stuff. And yeah, no
point stamping "Microsoft" on the thing with
all the baggage that carries.

Disclaimer: in another life I worked on mobile
products/OS's.
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What baggage?
John Zern 13th Apr 2010
Nobody cares that it says "Microsoft" on the outside of the XBox: it still sells.

It looks like the Zune is doing better then many other players on the market, with Apple and SanDisk ahead of them, so it looks as though "Microsoft" on it isn't hurting it.

I would argue that people would prefer MS on the front as opposed to some other brand they never heard of.
  • Flagged
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Microsoft logo carries baggage
HollywoodDog 13th Apr 2010
15 years ago Microsoft was driving the tech
industry. Today it's lost that lead, and many
of its projects are tarnished with a bad
reputation. I've not seen the market research,
but I wouldn't be surprised if the phone were
tested with and without Microsoft's logo, a
logoless phone would score better than a
Microsoft branded one.

Once upon a time Chrysler and Mitsubishi had a
joint venture to produce a sports car.
Consumers bought Mitsubishi and didn't buy
Chrysler, even though it was the same car with
another logo. I suspect that today Microsoft
consumer products would suffer from the same
kind of problem.

There's a big segment of the public that has
negative associations with Microsoft.
0 Votes
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So how did that answer my question?
John Zern 13th Apr 2010
That the name hasn't stopped XBox or Zune from selling? It hasn't stopped Windows 7 from selling.

I think you're seeing something which isn't there.
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How do you know
HollywoodDog 13th Apr 2010
that the name hasn't cost sales of Xbox and
Zune? Are you saying that there's nobody who
didn't buy those things because they're from
Microsoft? I didn't buy either of them, and I
wouldn't because I am not comfortable with
Microsoft's ability to build consumer products.
Am I the only person like that in the world?
Microsoft has a lot of baggage. Specifically
Zune, PlaysForSure, (how come only commenters
on ZDNet seem to ever have heard of
PlaysForSure) and all the other spectacular
trainwrecks.
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X-Box???
khazeem Updated - 13th Apr 2010
Come on man. X-Box sells because its a video game system. A system targeted specifically at common people that know little about software and so on and kids. Horrible example. And as for as Zune or other MP3,4,or 5 players is concerned, some people would buy a generic player as long as it works.

But here is where you messed up at:

"I would argue that people would prefer MS on the front as opposed to some other brand they never heard of."

Now this is the point I was making previously. That MS is just a popular name that people recognize. And in this world of marketing influences, popularity wins... in most cases. Therefore, as of now, seeing the MS name on something "might" still be good for sales but that will soon change as more options are made and people really get to see the difference between brands.
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what a load of bs
bannedfromzdnetagain 13th Apr 2010
it is not a microrosft phone and yet they proudly present it to
the world? they developed the software and the hardware
(with their inhouse danger team) but it is not a microrosft
phone? gmab.

sharp will built it, sure, but foxconn is building the iphone
too and yet the iphone is not a foxconn phone. how is that?

after microsoft abandoned "plays for sure" a few years ago
for their own hardware zune line (and stapped all their
"partners" vigorously in the back), they now come out again
with their own hardware in competition to their "partners".
ouch.

but don't fear, shameless microsoft shill mary-jo will deliver
whatever message they want her to. how absurd it may be.
0 Votes
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Apple partnered long ago with resellers, at shows, ect.

Then they drop their sellers by opening their own stores in direrct competition with them while pulling support?

Then they pull out of MacWorld after they helped make Apple who they are, and start staging anouncements on their own?

Google offers Android to phone manufacturers, then releases Nexus One phones in direrct competition with them?

And Microsoft is different, how?
0 Votes
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That is the REAL question.
0 Votes
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Thanks
Viva la crank dodo 13th Apr 2010
for adding 'Roz'
0 Votes
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The phone is a minor part of this system. What it
really is is the 'remote' that kiddies are supposed to
carry around to update their social networking status
and whatnot. The real Microsoft product here is the
site and services that display that information and
store it. Basically Microsoft is trying to launch a
rival to Facebook, but with a cool little phone
thingie for teenagers to carry.

I give this product/service bundle a Bing's chance in
hell.
0 Votes
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Now the Kin is certainly not Windows Phone 7 - but the REASON it's "not a Microsoft phone" has absolutely nothing to do with the brand and EVERYTHING to do with allowing multiple manufacturers to sell devices running the same software.

Which is why the phone is a "Sharp phone running Windows."

Unbelievable how you MS haters have tried to drag them through the mud claiming they are trying to distance themselves when it's quite the opposite - they are selling the SOFTWARE, which makes the PHONE a Sharp phone, and the SOFTWARE Windows.
If any cell phone company EVER lets Microsoft into their door, they may as well just give them the company.

Once you invite a vampire through the door, he has access, but they must first be invited in!!!
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RE: Microsoft's Ho: The Kin is not a 'Microsoft phone'
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
What i achieve troublesome may well be to find a blog page nfl wholesale which might seize me for only a instant but your running a blog online site differs. Bravo.

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