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Microsoft's IE 8 Compatibility List: Is it working?

By | February 18, 2009, 8:34am PST

Internet Explorer 8 (IE 8) is nearing the finish line, with a March release to manufacturing looking like a distinct possibility. But is IE 8 — or, more accurately — Web site developers and owners — really ready?

I have been testing IE 8 since the code became available publicly. And one thing that hasn’t changed much over the past several months is the fact that many Web sites still aren’t compatible with IE 8.

I’m not blaming the site owners here. Microsoft officials have known all along that even though the IE team is doing the “right” thing by finally making IE more standards-compliant, they are risking “breaking the Web” because the vast majority of Web sites still are written to work correctly with previous, non-standards-compliant versions of IE.

Microsoft has tried to mitigate the effects of moving to a default standards-based view in a few ways. IE 8 comes with a “Compatibility View” button that will “fix” a seemingly broken site if a user knows to press it. Microsoft went a step beyond this with IE 8 Release Candidate 1, issued in January, by adding a downloadable list of sites that would automatically trigger IE 8 to move directly to compatibility mode, rather than standards mode.

(Here is the list of the 2,400 sites that are on Version 1.0 of Microsoft’s Compatibility View list.)

The Compatibility View list includes some major sites — Apple.com, CNN.com, eBay, Facebook, Google.com, NYTimes.com — even Microsoft.com (!) — and lots, lots more. Users also have the option of adding IE-8-incompatible sites they visit that didn’t make it onto the list that will be appended to the schema list they download.

The Compatibility List has made my IE 8 browsing a lot more stable. When I go to the NYTimes.com site now, it just works. The Compatibility View button (the icon for which looks like a broken Web page and is typically located directly to the right of the URL address bar) doesn’t appear at all (as is the case for all sites on the Compatibility List).

That said, there are a lot of sites I visit that aren’t on the list. And more often than not, they fail to render correctly with IE 8. Sometimes I remember that I should try hitting the Compatibility View button to see if there are boxes and buttons and text there that I can’t see because I am using IE 8. Other times, when I am visiting a site with which I’m unfamiliar, I don’t realize what I’m missing.

I’m at the point now — if a site looks weird, is slow or just doesn’t seem to be working right — I simply assume it is IE 8’s fault. Sometimes I’m right (as I discover when I open the same site in Firefox or Chrome and it looks and works fine). Other times, I’m not — a site just might be down or broken. The bottom line is I’ve come to expect a rocky browsing experience when using IE 8.

I doubt the compatibility experience is going to change much, if at all, between now and the time IE 8 is released. For months, Microsoft has been banging the drum for site owners to update their code — either by adding compatibility tags or redoing sites to take into account the changes in IE 8. Many site admins and developers have said they weren’t willing to take on that task until Microsoft delivered a near-final test release — at least a Release Candidate.

Some critics have said they think Microsoft is doing a disservice to developers by offering compatibility work-arounds. They say Microsoft created its own problems by delivering previous IE releases that flouted standards — which is true. And now Microsoft should bite the bullet and just go the 100-percent-standards route, they reason. That might be a better course in the long run for Web developers tired of having to do separate versions of sites and apps for standards-based browsers and for IE, but it punishes Web users in the interim.

What’s going to happen when IE 8 goes final and non-techie users have it pushed to them or get new PCs with IE 8 preloaded? I wouldn’t be surprised to see further losses in IE market share, as frustrated users find only some of their favorite Web sites displaying correctly but don’t really understand why. Perhaps Opera and its chums won’t need the antitrust courts to get a leg up on Microsoft, after all….

What’s your take? Is Microsoft taking the right course with Compatibility Mode in IE 8?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Microsoft
dfwekrdfe70-24353633083440261747093332297663 11th Nov
ioasdm,good post!
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Compatibility IE8
pete3080 18th Feb 2009
I just want to view websites I don't care if they're compatible. After a short time with IE8 and its 'refresh' and seeing lines out of place I might be going to Firefox.
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This is ridiculous...IE6 and 7 didn't adhere to standards of web page compliance, so everyone had to be noncompliant to render properly...so now we're getting the same runaround on IE8?

Spare me, I'll stick to Firefox.
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The article says NOTHING to the effect that "...all sites must be compatible with IE 8."

The gist of the article is that while previous versions of IE were non-compliant, MS is making an attempt to actually become compliant.

The problem, according to the article, is that many websites attempted to compensate for previous versions of IE, resulting in all manner of problems for users of FF and Netscape. Now, with IE becoming a more standards-friendly browser, those sites are facing a new set of headaches.

With IE still the dominate browser in terms of market share, many sites friendly to earlier releases of IE are now misbehaving when opened in IE8.

This is why I always wrote the most "generic" HTML possible. It's the fancy stuff that leads to problems.
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Choice now matters.......really !!
TonyOz 18th Feb 2009
Previous versions of IE used rendering that required non-standard versions of HTML and web-sites catered for this. With the rise of Firefox, the only demand is that absolutely standard HTML website coding is used. I am not surprised at all that IE8 is in trouble if it is still operating on non-standard coding. The only problem for Microsoft now is that people really do have a choice - and they are choosing to desert IE8 already. It is quite ironical when you think about it: IE8 is in trouble strictly **because** the internet is now applying a universal standard, not the heavily tweaked Microsoft standard. It is to laugh, :-D
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Incorrect
seosamh_z 18th Feb 2009
..Previous versions of IE used rendering that required non-standard versions of HTML..

That's not true.
IE was HTML compliant for the most part but offered extra IE extensions.

It is CSS that causes people to 'hack' styles to be cross browser compatible.

Rendering varies on implementation as the standard doesn't address this.
For example, missing a closing tag and what are you supposed to do?
They all handle it differently.

IE* is more standards compliant than previous versions and therefore 'hacks' for IE do not apply to IE8.

There have always been 'hacks' and there probably always will be.

HTH

Joe

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Open standards exist, the W3C has published these and provided
validators for years. MS has always had its own twist or just pain ignored
them. It is because better, standards-compliant browsers like Firefox
and Mozilla have gained significant user bases, especially outside of
North America, that IE has moved closer to the standards. But why MS
would release a new browser that is not 100% compliant first and then
expands functionality beyond the standard is something that is can only
be explained away by acknowledging that Microsoft is much more
interested in setting standards than adhering to them.
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entirely and there is no error handling in the standards.

Sometimes there is just a lack of a fully defined standard to comply with.

Not that I'll go far out of the way to defend the purveyors of ActiveX. But Netscape pulled their own non-compliant gags in the early days as well.
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seanferd, have you seen the CSS Validator service?
B.O.F.H. Updated - 19th Feb 2009
If is is so tough to validate CSS, then why is there an on-line CSS Validator? As per standards, CSS is still being developed at W3 and thus has not gone through any standardization bodies (as in ISO or CCITT) but it can be validated in it's current iteration. It isn't that tough when a service has existed for several years.
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it is hard to make the right choice.

That is, once MSFT chose the wrong way of "standards pollution", they made it much harder for themselves to come clean. After all, if they now go a purely standards-compliant browser, then it breaks all the HTML/XML for previous versions, and they suffer a huge loss in backwards compatibility.

But this is exacxtly what Foley described. So the answer was in the article. Did you read it?
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IF IE is the problem...
pico_D 18th Feb 2009
Some coders just put checks in to see if the client was Internet Explorer, if it was, it deviated from the "clean" rendering of the site to include CSS and other hacks to make it look right on IE.

IE 8's rendering is much closer to other relatively standards compliant browsers, which means that if the coder of the site was "lazy" and just checked for IE, as opposed to specific versions, the site will appear broken.
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Lazy?
AzuMao 19th Feb 2009
Whatever morons coded IE were lazy. Nobody should have to code different versions of their site for different browsers, that's just ridiculous. You MS fanbois are lucky that some webmasters were nice enough to give in to IE's crap.
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That poster wasn't being an IE fanboy. The issue being addressed is that, if the sites that are breaking didn't work in standards compliant browsers, then they wouldn't work in Ff. The sites that are breaking are the ones that have styles placed, especially for IE in them.

Now, you can put conditional statements and CSS hacks to make your site only say certain rules to IE, but if you don't specify which version you're talking to then all versions will be affected, and a standards compliant version of IE will be told to break things. The "lazy" developers are the ones who used conditional comments for all IE I'm assuming not just IE6, or not just different conditionals for 6 and 7.

I sure hope this makes all web deselopers strip all the IE6 and 7 code from their sites and just serve standard code until everyone is forced to abandon their old junk browsers.
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What a load of bollox!
Richard Turpin 19th Feb 2009
Please do not make comment on the sbject in discussion if you obviously do not have the cranium ability to do so..... go away child and play with your toys.
  • Flagged
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I Believe "load of bollox" Is a Mixed Metaphor
Seamus O'Brog Updated - 19th Feb 2009
"Load of Manure" would be more consistent or just "Bollox!" would be proper. But, generally, unless you feel that the Bollox are rather large enough to constitute a load in and of themselves, a "load of Bollox" is something with which the Queen would not be caught dead. Not cricket and all, eh, whot? Pip, pip.

"if the coder of the site was "lazy" and just checked for IE, as opposed to specific versions, the site will appear broken."

He's obviously saying that it's the webmasters' responsibility to custom code a version of their site not only for specific browsers, but for each VERSION of them.

And seeing as the only browsers that need this special treatment are the IE ones, yes, that IS fanboism.
All Microsoft will see is problems until they finally, finally, finally die.
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Okay..
AzuMao 19th Feb 2009
Well as long as MS is following the rules this time, yes, the Internet is ready whenever MS is.

Has been for the past decade or so, in fact.
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Actually...
Gnack 19th Feb 2009
The main problem is related to the work-arounds that web developers had to use to get sites to work correctly under IE6 (especially) and IE7 (less-so). Consider this example.

In your basic web site you'll have a container that holds text. The gap between the container's border and the text is called the padding. In IE6 if you say a box is 100 pixels wide with 10 pixels padding on the left and right you will get a 100 pixel wide box. The standards actually say you should get a 120 pixel wide box, due to the padding being added to the width. Developers work around this by pushing code directly to IE6 that no other browser can see. The issue is that IE8 will also be able to see the code, but will be rendering the boxes correctly, thus making the boxes the wrong size!

That's just one example, but its a big one. I'm not majorly concerned though, I think it's going to suck a bit, but it has always sucked so what's new?
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lolz
Chrissd 19th Feb 2009
Actually, IE was non-complient so that code written for netscape and such would all render in IE without modification. They increased their market share by making all code compatible with the one browser. Even though back then, each browser had a different way of rendering code and accepted different code..
So the main problem, is that people wrote a whole heap of html that was non-complient, MS said it's ok, we'll still let it display, and now they're becoming fully standards compliant. Equals a whole heap of code that won't render properly. Compliant or net friendly.. That is the question..

Oh yea, and there's no such thing as generic html. :P Depends on the browser you're coding for, the version of that browser, etc.
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"no such thing as generic html"
Amelioration 26th Feb 2009
Of course there is.

The best sites/developers use it. It's when you have minimal HTML that functions correctly.
0 Votes
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Here we go again
itpro_z 18th Feb 2009
I know that you are just doing your usual Microsoft is Evil thing, but when I read the article I got the impression that it was Microsoft's move towards standards compliance that was causing the problems. Considering that I routinely run into sites that don't display properly in FF, limiting its usability, won't IE8 finally push sites to be more compliant? If that is so, then FF will benefit as well.
0 Votes
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Here you go again ...
Amelioration 26th Feb 2009
... "I know that you are just doing your usual I love Microsoft thing".

Microsoft's move towards standards compliance is only further revealing problems which they caused as part of their failed world domination plan.
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If your sites run on Firefox, they're more likely to run on I.E. 8 better than I.E. 7
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Its not all about you
Capt Obvious 24th Feb 2009
We will certainly spare you, but believe it or not, it's not all about you, there are millions of other people using windows and internet explorer who do not even know that other browsers exist. These people will only ever use IE, and will end up with IE8.
So pull your big head out of the clouds and look at the big picture.
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Those idiots
AzuMao 1st Mar 2009
Need to pull their heads out of their asses, and smell the sunshine. It's not like it's hard to click around 5 buttons to get a decent browser.
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width
absent 18th Feb 2009
I had a site where the formatting was all buggered up in IE8. Turned out it was caused by not specifying image width inside ssi'ed pages.
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width
neverhome 18th Feb 2009
Back during the heyday of IE5 and IE6 (both of which I liked, btw), I got into the habit of adding a value to every possible parameter. I did this while using a minimum of javascript and css. Leave *nothing* to default, and use the simplest code possible. Makes for a rather plain page, but they always displayed well in every browser.

I switched to FF when IE7 was released. The UI is just hideous.
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I tried IE8, as it was shipped with Windows 7. Nearly every site I visited required me to press the compatibility button. After one afternoon of this, I dumped IE8 and went back to FireFox. Everything just works.
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Everything "just works"
itpro_z 18th Feb 2009
I keep hearing that, but I find more sites that don't display properly with FF than with IE8. I actually like FF, but until websites become more compliant with standards, it is unusable to me. Perhaps IE8 will push sites to finally move past just writing for IE6.
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Everything "just works"
dbneeley@... 18th Feb 2009
Please, give a few of the sites that "don't display properly with" Firefox?

I use it constantly and have rarely found that to be the case..unless a site is so stupidly programmed that it is only suitable for IE. Most, today, are smart enough to include more standard code that displays perfectly in Firefox.

However, I rarely run into that--but I have four different browsers on my Windows setup (and two in Linux) that I could use if necessary--but I haven't had to use anything but Firefox for ages.

So--I suppose it's a case of "put up or shut up"...
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Everything "just works"
gddeluca 6th Mar 2009
Well, I've been finding more and more sites lately have a problem in FF. Here's one that fails. Use IE and it works.
http://www.ashford.ie/index.php
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I find that hard to believe...
Metronome49 19th Feb 2009
Most web developers use Firefox to develop their site initially, because of add-ons like Firebug, and then add a bunch of junk for IE to get it to look right for people with troglodyte browsers.

So it should look best for Ff, unless it was made a thousand years ago as a cave painting for IE6
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You must be living in. . .
CodeCurmudgeon 19th Feb 2009
You must be living in a whole different sub-culture of the web than I am.

I very rarely encounter problems using FireFox. Occasionally I'll see text overlapping an image or something, but that rarely affects usability enough to annoy me, much less enough to bring up Internet Exploder. 'Though I'd fix it if it was my site.
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"Tried IE8 on WIN7...
El Condor 18th Feb 2009
Pssst! Remember way back, last month? IE8 Beta and Windows 7 Beta did not play well with each other.
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Let's concentrate here ... it's the RC that wasn't provided, and the OP didn't say they were running the RC.
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1. Who shipped it to you?

2. Where did they ship it from?

3. The last I heard Win7 had not shipped, and was still in beta form?
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Huh?
seanferd 19th Feb 2009
Being a windozefreak of some sort, how is it that you failed to download the beta while it was available?
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Not quite
mejohnsn 19th Feb 2009
Every day, I can find a site that does not work with FireFox. I can find several if I have NoScript running, which really is the only safe way to browse.

So no, you are overstating your case. Are you a Mozilla shill, or just another fanboy?
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Serve it up any time you see some-one surfing your site with IE8. If you see them using a non-linux OS, prompt them to download puppy Linux and boot from a cd or USB drive for a safer surfing experience.

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re compatibility ie8
catalin.novac@... 20th Feb 2009
Those sites with out of place lines in ie8 show the same in FF Opera or Chrome... sad
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only found 1 bug
taliatob Updated - 18th Feb 2009
I've worked with the IE8 beta and had no trouble using it.
The only bug was, when I used the scollbars instead of the mouse wheel the browser crashes.
But it always restored all tabs.

Good work MS, yust fixing some bugs and you've made a great web browser.
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Exactly why I use Opera
chrome_slinky@... 18th Feb 2009
and I frankly don't see why others don't also. If Microsoft had been forced to comply a long time ago, there would have been fewer sites to repair.

Now Microsoft MUST have compatibility mode, or risk losing even more market share.

However, when the company decided to 'go straight' it should have begun working on its own site, so that that site shines like a beacon, telling others that compliance is the word of the day.
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People don't use Opera because..
Tiggster 18th Feb 2009
Most people probably don't use Opera because:

#1. They are happy with IE or Firefox and see no reason to change.

#2. They've tried a previous version of Opera and were unimpressed.

#3. Opera is less important to the browser market than Linux is on the desktop. It's been around forever and is old news.

I bet IE loses more market share in a single day than Opera will ever have. happy It's absolutely pathetic that Chrome has been out for only a few months and has already easily surpassed Opera in market share. The verdict is in and the market has rendered Opera irrelevant.

I think it's clear that IE is not going to give up it's #1 position anytime soon, and Firefox, which I prefer, has a strong second, so third place is all that's really up for grabs. The contenders are Safari and Chrome, but Opera is nowhere to be found. It's DEAD!
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Now that you mention Chrome...
RamMan 18th Feb 2009
...I have started using Chrome a little more
than Firefox. Will be fun watching as Chrome
matures.
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Thats funny
Metronome49 19th Feb 2009
I had a friend who was using IE7. And I said, "Why are you using IE7 dummy, use Firefox(this was before chrome and Opera has never interested me)."
And he said,"Why? IE7 does what I need it do just fine. (note:watchin' pron moast likely)"

Then later in the month I saw him using Firefox, and he said there is no way he would go back to using IE7.

People are just apathetic and uninformed.
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Extremely
Chrissd 19th Feb 2009
"People are just apathetic and uninformed."

Which is why Firefox is a big browser and Opera, the only true standards compliant browser out there is overtaken overnight by Chrome..

"and Opera has never interested me"

Apathetic indeed silly
The point is that only an idiot would willingly use any version of IE, since all the other browsers are miles ahead of it with no catches.
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Opera
El Condor 19th Feb 2009
Stuck with Opera on my Wii. Nintendo is the only reason Opera is still around. It should go the way of the Dodo and Netscape.
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I hate to say it. . .
CodeCurmudgeon 19th Feb 2009
I hate to say it, but I never have been able to get Opera to do much of anything.

Maybe it is because the UI is different enough from Mozilla's browsers and IE that I'm missing something critical, but it just seems to balk when I try to use it.

Of course I've only tried it on dialup (Oh, the joys of country living!) since it is just plain blocked by the firewall at work.
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at least 3 months a year just keeping it working. With all the changes they make, each new update causes issues and breaks things. What a waste of time. Hopefully, if MS products really do FULLY support open standards, then this may become less of an issue. And isn't that what we all want, write once use everywhere.
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RE: Microsoft
dfwekrdfe70-24353633083440261747093332297663 11th Nov
ioasdm,good post!

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