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Nokia's first Windows Phones: What's there, what's not

By | October 26, 2011, 4:42am PDT

Summary: Here’s what’s here … and not.. with the first two Windows Phones from Nokia that were unveiled at the opening day of the Nokia World trade show.

Nokia took the wraps off its first two Windows Phones at the opening day of its Nokia World conference.

There are two of them: The Nokia Lumia 800 (the phone known as “SeaRay”) and the Lumia 710 (the phone codenamed “Sabre”). The phones both are built on the same 1.4 GHz Snapdragon processor and  “Mango” operating system release. The Lumia 800 features a 3.7-inch display and an 8 MP camera and a ; the 710 has a 3.7-inch display and a 5 MP camera. The estimated retail price of the Lumia 800 is 420 Euros (about $585 U.S.) and the 710 is 270 Euros (or $376 U.S.).

The rumored third Windows Phone device — a more business-focused phone codenamed “Ace” was a no-show today (if it exists at all, which I believe it does).

Many on Twitter noted the first Nokia Windows Phones were solid, but lacking some of the features one might expect — like front-facing cameras, built-in NFC support and on-device storage of more than 16 GB.

There’s no official word as to when — and actually if — the Lumia 800 and 710 models will come to the U.S. Nokia officials promised a “portfolio” of Windows Phones will begin rolling out in the U.S. starting early next year, but didn’t actually say whether those two devices will be part of that portfolio.

We do know that Nokia is going to support CDMA and LTE in certain markets where it makes sense, but, again, no specific official promises. (ThisIsMyNext reporters noted that Verizon Wireless reps were at the show, which is a somewhat encouraging sign for us Windows Phone users on Verizon who still only have one model from which to choose, a year after Windows Phone debuted.)

What wasn’t lacking was Nokia’s thoughts and plans for marketing the new phones with a slogan “Amazing Every day.” Company officials played up during today’s kick-off keynote the way Mango features that are common to all Windows Phones will resonate with consumers and help differentiate Microsoft’s offerings from the Android and iPhone competition.

It doesn’t seem as though Nokia is envisioning its Windows Phones as helping the company attract the next billion phone users; instead, Nokia is playing up its four new S40-based “Asha” phones as its offerings aimed at cost-sensitive younger users in emerging markets. That said, the Lumia 720 is going to be available first (later this year) in Russia, Taiwan, India, Hong Kong and Singapore. The Lumia 800 is going to be available first in six European markets this fall, and Russia, Taiwan, India, Hong Kong and Singapore before the end of the year.

Nokia execs also noted that Nokia is providing its Windows Phone users with some custom applications designed by Nokia and for Nokia products only, including its Nokia Music and Mix Radio services (which seem to have nothing to do with Microsoft’s Zune service) and Drive voice-activated turn-by-turn directions.

Microsoft is really betting heavily on Nokia to push Windows Phone sales. Though the two Lumias introduced today look nice, they seem pretty pricey (to a U.S. consumer like me who is used to cheaper phones), especially given they don’t offer a whole lot more — feature-wise — than other Mango phones. My ZDNet colleague Larry Dignan wonders aloud whether consumers will see them as “must have” gadgets. Maybe other phones in the coming U.S. portfolio will be must-haves, but these, to me, are not. You thoughts?

Update: Some of my European press colleagues don’t see the new Lumias as pricey at all, once you factor in the subsidies. Here’s a good chart from the Guardian which notes that when subsidies are factored in, the Lumias are considerably less pricey in England than the iPhone 4S.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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rmbnsbf 80 baw
cdfwekrwe37-24379025434330766973869554796432 23rd Nov
utzcrl,aizvpfwr44, xquok.
Looks are important and finally there's a Windows Phone device that has half-decent looks (even if "borrowed" from Apple Nano ;-))

But the lack of a front facing camera and a pitiful 16GB (12GB after the OS reqs) storage is unforgivable on a modern smartphone. The latter in particular is a deal breaker for me. A shame because all the hype and glitzy marketing is what Windows Phone has been sorely lacking right from the get-go. As is becoming common with Microsoft, Nokia's launch smacks of "too little too late" which is a great shame.
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@FastAndFluid Totally agreed. Was hoping for Nokia, now I'm frustrated. If I'm using my phone for apps, music and podcasts, it's filled after the first day.
iPhone 4GS has 64GB!!
@Bluesware Skydrive?
@Bluesware
why would you fill your phone with music? you need zune pass and the cloud. move past the 90s
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@ neonspark

Because it can make sense to have plenty of cheap local storage on your device compared to the costs of data use overages and dependency on strong coverage to do the same exact thing.
@Bluesware
This is more of an obsession with numbers than practicality. First off, native cell phone apps are itty bitty. They have to be otherwise it will take forever to load and will chug along like you were running on mud. I don't know of very many people who would even consume close to a gig of storage for apps. If you are, I'm willing to bet you are just downloading apps like crazy but use them once. On a desktop with full blown programs 4 gigs will go a long way so how do you expect me to believe cell phone apps would even compare.

Second, stop throwing the 64gb number around. Its cost for one thing is prohibitive. Second of all take 100 cell phone users. How many are even using 32gigs let alone needing 64gigs. Whats the point of having a huge storage if you only use 1/4 of it for the life of your device.

I suspect people clamoring for storage is just filling it up with garbage for the sake of saying they can fill up 64gigs.

After 2 years with my phone I think I'm approaching 2 gigs of storage used. I rely (not heavily) on my variety of online storage including box.net's 50gigs, google music's many gigs and yes I do store music on my phone but I don't see the worth of storing 16 gigs of music.
@rengek
The more the merrier, for recording video.
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@Bluesware
The insane WP7 16Gb, and no MicroSDHC slot is going to be an achillies heel worse than the 64Mb O/S adress space limit on WinMo.

You'd have thought MS would have learned and made 32Gb entry level for WP7 from day 1, with as much MicroSDHC as you can eat.

Sky drive - path to the ruin of your cell phone bill from your greedy cellphone provider and their new wheeze of capped data tarriffs.
@Bluesware I have been using the HTC Trophy for months now and have not even come close to filling up the 16 gigs, I have also opened up the phone so I can put a 32 or 64 gid sd card in it, but have not found I need it. The phone works great with the 16 gigs so far...
@Bluesware

Yawn.

Been using my HTC Mozart for nearly a year and still only used 1.6G out of the 4 available. Really don't know what you are talking about. Since WP7 has built in functionality that require apps on other phones and I understand how to stream music - not really a problem wink

Oh and my smartphone lasts 2-3 days - looks like you're plugging in every few hours wink
@FastAndFluid I have an question is Nokia Lumia 800 is comparable with this phone take a look: http://www.technologyfazer.com/the-nokia-n9-review.html
@nomikhokher

Same design, different OS.
@nomikhokher Engadget did a tale of the tape between these two. N9 wins.
@nomikhokher
So Nokia ripped them selves off copying their own N9. Giving it a new name and loading Window on it....
Would like to see a real word test where non-tech users get both the Windows version and the N9 Meago version side by side and choose. My guess is that the N9 will win.
@FastAndFluid

front facing camera is useless. let's be honest. notbody uses it. storage a very 1990's idea that is going to become more and more irrelevant with the cloud. I've never needed more than 8gb, then again I use the cloud heavily because it is better local storage.

however these phones are surely going to put windows phone in the map to mainstream consumers, specially overseas where nokia is the toyota of cell phones. having well made devices that android can't get, as well as unique features like xbox integration is what will drive future consumers to get a windows phone.

With the iphone 4s being a total let down, nokia msft bought themselves a year. clearly these are phones that were already in the pipeline for meego when they were re-purposed (it is no accident the 800 looks like a small n9). 2012 should bring the type of handsets we're expecting built for wp from the ground up.
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@neonspark ...is to assume that whatever you need in a phone is what everyone needs. I see the same thing in nearly all phone reviews and comments: Whatever features the commenter wants are absolutely critical, must have features...for them...and they can't seem to accept the idea that anyone else might have different usage patterns.

The front facing phone is useless to me, but for someone who wants one, not having it is a problem. Saying it is useless is just as bad as the guys saying the phone is useless if it doesn't have one.

Storage is the same idea. Apparently they way you use your phone, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me for entirely different reasons (i.e. I do store lots of stuff on my phone but for me 16 GB is plenty).

Then again, I'm still using my Original Droid - and have no burning desire to upgrade as its doing everything I need.
@neonspark or could it be that Apple saw that MicroNokia was not really doing anything to threaten their current lead with todays announcement - leaving one more year for them to innovate w. iPhone 5 (did anyone say no SIM card?).

To me it can be both ways around, but admittedly I love my 32GB almost full, facetime iPhone.

BTW flat rate data is not a reality to many making cloud a very expensive proposition.
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Nope
A Gray 26th Oct
@neonspark my 32 gig IPhone 4 is almost always filled to capacity. I take pictures in HD, take video in HD, have gigs of music. My next phone needs 64 gig, that's obvious. Looks like it will need to be IPhone or Android. Darn.
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@neonspark
To even get its foot in the door against the iPhone with a little know unproven W7 OS, Nokia has to push the hardware like Android does. The 7 OS can not stand against the iOS without some real wiz bang hardware behind it. This is not that hardware, had to stop myself from yawning while I read about it. You also realize that the "total let down" iPhone4s had sales of over 4 million in the first 3 days and presently enjoys large numbers of back orders. Lets hope the Nokia enjoys such a "let down"
@neonspark

I suppose its all in how you use your phone, whether you have completely abandoned any concept of personal privacy in this social media raging world and how much hype your willing swallow regarding "THE CLOUD"!


I find I like seeing the person I'm talking with, often enough that the second camera seems a good thing. On the other hand, I wonder why anyone would rely on some for profit company to secure and store their data. But please go ahead and do so! When the whole cloud fantasy implodes from cost cutting competition, government and corporate snooping, you'll wish you managed your own data.
@A Gray
If you are using your phone for HD photos and videos on a phone (god knows why but thats your choice) then 64gigs will not be enough either. Especially HD videos. If you are doing HD videos you will need 8 gigs per movie. Again why would you need HD videos on a cell phone whose resolution is below HD. HD photos by the way do not take up that much storage. And if you use your phone like a mobile hard drive that 64gigs is going to take you forever to transfer so its not even practical for that.
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RE: Nokia's first Windows Phones: What's there, what's not
throw_away_mail@... Updated - 26th Oct
@neonspark - you record video straignt to the cloud?
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@neonspark - HD video recording - duh!
16 GB is squat.
@neonspark Given the fact that Skype will be available on these phones shortly, a front-facing camera is nowhere near useless. On my laptop and my pad I use it quite a lot for video calls with friends across the pond.

Is the memory limit a problem? Shure it is. It is a huge issue. You see, not everybody lives in one of the very few countries where Zune music is available, and we can therefore not take advantage of neither Zune pass nor the Zune music store for that matter. 16G as storage on my phone is PITIFUL.

I will of course now be accused of being a iSomething shill, which will be funny, since I have been advocating the WP7 phones since my LG permanently replaced my iPhone 3GS in January. I think my Mango-powered LG is, by a decent margin, the best phone I've had (and have), that includes iPhone 3, 3GS and a handful of Android phones (I do some mobile development).

Sadly, in my opinion, Microsoft is having serious problem getting the entire company behind their mobile effort, and the Nokia stuff that was just released is, comparatively, a joke. There is no reason whatsoever for me to upgrade my one year old LG to a Nokia, and that to me is a huge surprise. I was ready with my credit card weeks ago. A phone that is EXACTLY the same as my one year old LG, apart from a nicer design and a marginally better screen, is no reason to upgrade. Very disappointed in Nokia. Still holding on to hope that they will get their act together for Act 2.
@neonspark

I live in Europe. Nobody cares about Nokia anymore. The phone store shelves are filled with iPhones and Android.
@neonspark
"With the iphone 4s being a total let down, nokia msft bought themselves a year. "

If breaking sales records is a total let down, I'd take that any day of the year and twice on Sundays.

You, the "geek" may have thought the iPhone 4s was letdown but it is a 100% better animal in the inside and a total revamp.

Oh, and did I mention it broke all iPhone sales records? Hardly a total let down.
@FastAndFluid - Funny my Windows phone which I have had for 6 mths and has hundreds if not thousands of files is still only using less than 3 Gb's of its storage capacity of 8 Gb. These files include at 500 songs, 3 movies, 70 books, games and other applications. I store photos on Skydrive which are synced to my PC. Maybe Apple and Android need larger storage because they are not as efficient as Mango at data storage.
@Rndmacts I agree that this obsession with GB is more status than practical need. Everything you are saying applies to Android as well. I have 16GB Droid Bionic with 16GB sd chip and except when I download all of my wife's music (she is a dance teacher) I use less than 3 GB and I have a bunch of apps and the music I actually listen to regularly on my phone.

While there was never such a thing as too much storage in theory, it does get pricey when you have to pay for it in the real world.
@Rndmacts I just wish people would read the specs. The Nokia phone comes with the ability to record 720p video. Even with H.264 compression, you'll run out of that 16G space pretty fast. The question is then, are you willing to pay to have that uploaded to the cloud? Are you willing to WAIT?
@FastAndFluid
the phrase "too little too late" is getting more than tiresome. Its used constantly but its wrong almost every time. Apple said that about android phones 4 years ago. Gamers said that about xbox. wii gamers said that about kinect, java said that about microsoft's .net, wordperfect said that about MS word, lotus said that about excel.
@rengek

Excellent list of examples. I'm a heavy Microsoft user out of necessity and though they are clumsy and slow, they are infinitely patient and persistent and have the resources to be so. I always think of the abominations that we're Windows 1.x, 2.x then world domination with 3.x
@rengek

So let's see here:
iOS vs Android - the race is getting closer now that iPhone is on more carriers. IIRC iOS VS Android is no contest - iOS is on more devices.

xBox - this has been a success for MS. Although for a few years the Wii kicked it's butt.

Java vs .Net - No contest - Java is still the king of the hill. If you want write once deploy almost everywhere you want Java. .Net is only good for Windows/IIS. Smart companies want to have their stuff run on as many platforms as possible.

Lotus, WP, etc vs Office - Windows. Both were WAY late to the party with Windows versions. And when they did those versions sucked. Not to mention during that time, MS did some VERY SHADY things with licensing that got them into the Antitrust suit.
@FastAndFluid The Lumia 800 has huge potential but is quite disappointing that there are at least no varying storage capacities (8GB/16GB/32GB/64GB, etc) and Front-Facing Camera (FFC). I guess Samsung Focus is it for my wife's Xmas present.
It will do Nokia a great deal of good if they come up with a Lumia 810 that has all this and more, perhaps plus a larger display of at least 4".
@techiegz@... for me I'm looking for more Form Factors than these boring rectangles.
Wish they come up with Communicators with WP7s or, my favorite back then was the N6800.

FFC and more storage is never an issue... for me.
So, I guess "a bunch" now equals "a couple"? And I have to agree there's really no excuse for leaving out a front facing camera with the recent Skype acquisition, not with MS pinning so much of their hopes on these devices.
@FastAndFluid - They didn't "borrow" from anyone but themselves. Take a look at the N9. They could be twins.
@blueyonder64 Well, technically they DO have a "bunch" of phones. Two models, but a bunch of phones! Surely they have already made hundreds of them.... wink
@blueyonder64
what makes you think they are stopping after two?
@neonspark
I wasn't alluding to the fact they were stopping at just two. I was referencing Ballmer's declaration that Nokia would be introducing "a bunch" of phones at Nokia World.
Not interesting. Overall, Nokia and Microsoft failed together sad
@sandeep.splash How can you say they "failed"? Nokia will sell millions of these phones. You don't have to like it. At least it's a credible alternative to the Apple ecosystem which forces you to use the bloated iTunes app. Maybe iTunes works OK on a Mac but the Windows version is awful, and forces you to "upgrade" to force new crapware down your throat.
@cjc5447
these are the same guys that said microsoft could never recover from vista happy no point paying attention to them.
@cjc5447
Millions, eh? That's probably about right. The other 8 wPhone vendors have sold millions. Maybe as many a 4. Nokia may be able to do that too.

How does iTunes work on your phone?
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@sandeep.splash
Just saying they see a market for it or wouldn't have made it.
@William Farrell
Now lets see if the market sees what Nokia has made.

Jus' sayin' ...
@sandeep.splash
I think it is a good start. remember nobody thought they could do it in less than a year and they proved the doubters wrong. the mere things lacking are trivialities like front cameras nobody uses, nfc which nobody uses, and big sd cards which are irrelevant with the cloud.

but yeah nokia should address this in future sets for people that are stuck in gimmicks and just to put bullet points in the marketing card. no doubt they will. however for the us market we'll probaly not see these two phones. which is good because having a meego repurposed device isn't what I'm looking for. I want a wp desiged from scratch by nokia. I have a feeling 2012 is where we'll see it.

yet this puts nokia back in the modern OS game. so it is a great step to geting their mojo back.
@neonspark

I'm afraid I don't get the 'irrelevant with clouds' comments. I live in the Netherlands and currently I have T-Mobile contract with unlimited Internet for 30 euro/month. When I am *forced* to change susbscriptions at the end of the month I have to accept 1Gb a month for 35 euros. After 1Gb my speed is capped at a max of 64k down. This is totally useless for Cloud streaming. And there is no unlimited Internet available at any cost. The max is 5Gb for 100 euros a month.
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Actually they are considerably cheap
arnavdesai@... 26th Oct
Of course if you see the price compared to subsidized phone they may seem expensive but they are not. Consider that the iPhone 4S costs 650$ unsubsidized. I can expect the 800 to be around 150$(subsidized) & 700 to be arond 99$ if they are introduced with carrier subsidies.
@arnavdesai@... Yeah these phone are cheap. In the UK they are free on contract. You can pre order the 800 now for free on a ??30 ($47) per month contract. That's cheaper than an iPhone 4 contract and a lot cheaper than a 4s contract
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rmbnsbf 80 baw
cdfwekrwe37-24379025434330766973869554796432 23rd Nov
utzcrl,aizvpfwr44, xquok.

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