ie8 fix

Salesforce retaliates; sues Microsoft for alleged patent infringement

By | June 25, 2010, 4:56am PDT

It took just a little over a month for Salesforce.com to answer Microsoft’s charge of patent infringement. On June 24, Salesforce sued Microsoft, making its own claims of patent infringement.

According to Bloomberg, the Salesforce complaint cites Microsoft’s .Net platform and SharePoint, which “perform in a way that violates the Salesforce.com patents, and the ‘risk of infringement was either known or so obvious that it should have been known by Microsoft.’”

Salesforce is bringing in the big guns for this one. The company has hired long-time Microsoft nemesis David Boies, founder of Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP — who represented the U.S. Department of Justice in its antitrust case against Microsoft last decade — to make its case.

Microsoft sued Salesforce for alleged patent infringement on May 18. The patents on which Microsoft is claiming Salesforce is infringing — and for which Microsoft is seeking treble damages and fees — include:

  • “method and system for mapping between logical data and physical data”
  • “system and method for providing and displaying a web page having an embedded menu”
  • “method and system for stacking toolbars in a computer display”
  • “automated web site creation using template driven generation of active server page applications”
  • “aggregation of system settings into objects”
  • “timing and velocity control for displaying graphical information”
  • “method and system for identifying and obtaining computer software from a remote computer”
  • “system and method for controlling access to data entities in a computer network”

It was pretty obvious Salesforce wasn’t going to roll over, after Microsoft lodged its case, with Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff calling Microsoft a “patent troll” and “alley thug.”

I’ve asked Microsoft for comment on the Salesforce case. No word back yet. Also no sight of the Salesforce complaint so far… More to come.

Update: Here’s Microsoft’s official statement, attributable to Horacio Gutierrez, Vice President and Deputy General Counsel, Intellectual Property & Licensing:

“We are reviewing Salesforce.com’s filing, which we have just received.  We remain confident about our position and will continue to press ahead with the complaint we initiated in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington.”

Update 2: Here’s the full Salesforce complaint (via TechCrunch).  Salesforce cites the following patents as among those upon which Microsoft is infringing:

  • “dynamic multi-level cache”
  • “method and system for handling errors in a distributed computer system”
  • “work sharing and communicating in a web site system”
  • “Java object cache server for databases”
  • “apparatus and methods for provisioning services”

Salesforce is alleging that several Microsoft products and technologies infringe on these patents, including Windows Server App Fabric, Windows Error Reporting (as incorporated in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2), SharePoint and the .Net platform (specifically ASP.Net Web services).

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Salesforce retaliates; sues Microsoft for allged patent infringement
makrekwe29-24353598471777462757714216093602 10th Nov
bjxnrz,good post!
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Don't you think it's about time.....
gsmcten@... 25th Jun 2010
That these folks start helping each other, instead of sueing each other?
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Nah. Not really.
Cylon Centurion Updated - 25th Jun 2010
@gsmcten@... And for stealing what I was going to say, I'm gonna have to sure you for stealing my idea.

:P

Actually, I agree. This thing where everyone is sue happy needs to stop.
allged?
@bob.kowalczyk@... Well, it's still alleged in THIS instance. Of course we all know MS would NEVER infringe on anyone else's IP. We also all know how much MS innovates in everything they do.
@dabble53

you have quite the sense of humor
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@dabble53

I think bob.kowalczyk was referring to the spelling of the word.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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Contributr
fixed
Mary Jo Foley 25th Jun 2010
Thanks
@bob.kowalczyk@...
Yes alleged, do you have any evidence in this case everyone else doesn't know?
The US has the craziest patenting system in the world when it comes to software. Copy the Europeans or go mad!!!
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Isn't it time the idiotic patent laws regarding software get changed? Maybe it will stop MS from blackmailing companies that use Linux over "phantom" infringements.
@rahn@... agreed! Some of these patents are so ridiculous it's not funny. Next thing you know we will all be sued for the method and velocity of wiping our asses because MS has a patent on that.
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Hell no not MS
Altotus 25th Jun 2010
Thats my patent and the alphabet and numbers as well pay up!
@adr5@... I agree. Software patents are totally ridiculous...and I say this a person who actually has software patents!
There once (still is?) a patent on applying vector math! It was considered novel because it applied to a car...i.e., if the car is at point A, and travels x feet in direction y, then it can be shown that the car is now at point B. This was a real patent!
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Your DNA
rketchum@... 25th Jun 2010
@adr5@... It does not stop there, at all. Some of the research companies claim patent rights to your DNA. They already kotcha.
They are:

1. They are used by a dominant firm to prevent competition by newcomers;

2. They provide software "trolls" a method of making an income; and

3. ?They give patent lawyers a grossly excessive income.........

The USA needs to move and move quickly to ban software patents completely. It is holding back innovation and development for the sake of pure greed.
.... Which is why we will NEVER overhaul the US Patent System!
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That'd be overkill...
neverhome 25th Jun 2010
@TonyOz ... to "ban software patents completely" would be overkill. If I fry my brain to create an awesome application and plan to pay the bills by selling it, then you can bet your asteroids that I'll sue you if you blatantly copy any *unique* aspects of that application for your own benefit.

This is NOT to say that anyone should be able to sue over someone else's use of common items in a program, like loading files, reading databases, etc. It's a fine line to draw, but what we need is to reform existing law so that it recognizes the unique nature of software. Programs that perform similar tasks will have at least some similar code and use similar methodologies. It's likely that both parties in this instance are guilty of patent trolling. If they'd just leave each other alone everything would be simpler, and maybe we'd have the pleasure of seeing some dough-faced lawyer miss a payment on his Lexus.
@neverhome " If they'd just leave each other alone everything would be simpler, and maybe we'd have the pleasure of seeing some dough-faced lawyer miss a payment on his Lexus."

Leaving each other alone is not sufficient. Just having the frivolous patents lets them threaten smaller companies for very little cost to them, and that completely kills innovation.

The only winners in the current patent system are large corporations with armies of lawyers that have the resources to stake out every marginally good idea and claim it as their exclusive property, and the lawyers themselves. Everybody else looses, including the public.
@neverhome : Thank you. This "Free Love" crap has got to go, it doesn't work...period.
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Live by the sword, die by the sword...
jasonp@... 25th Jun 2010
that is the lesson these technology companies need to learn when it comes to patent trolling. When it comes to software, patents would be the dumbest thing since Microsoft Bob if not for the fact that they predate it. When patents apply to abstract ideas, everyone loses. The only real intellectual property protections should be copyright protection preventing someone from copying code from another vendors product into your own. Common sense has to kick in at some point, but as long as we've got the US patent office handling software there isn't much chance of that happening anytime soon.
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I'm waiting . . .
JLHenry 25th Jun 2010
for the first lawsuit where both parties have a patent for the exact same idea . . .

LET THE PATENT WARS BEGIN!
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Microsoft R.I.P ............ Bye Bye !
John Biles 25th Jun 2010
Microsoft your clock is ticking........... May be have a talk to the guy who invented the Atari or Commodore 64 as that's where your heading............ To become just another distant memory.............
@John Biles

And I thought only the Republicans were dreamers - Sheesh! LOL
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Dreamers...
neverhome 25th Jun 2010
@andrej770 ... yep, we're dreamers. We dream of the day when left-wingers like our current Prez are consigned to the dust bin of history and America returns to her roots. Go ahead and snicker. The carnage in the midterm elections will be a beautiful thing to see. Ok, 'scuse me for getting off-topic. Can't help myself during election season. happy
  • Flagged
@neverhome - THANK YOU AND AMEN BROTHER!!!!!
  • Flagged
America will return to her roots when the libertarians are in power since that is what the Republican party used to be like.
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LOL, keep dreaming...
Qbt 25th Jun 2010
@John Biles
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web page w/ embedded menu?
deepee912 25th Jun 2010
??system and method for providing and displaying a web page having an embedded menu?

Please tell us more about some of these bullets.
@deepee912 That would be illegal. You have already infringed on MSFT's patents for pushing buttons. Now stop and go back to dreaming about what it would be like if you could share data with your different computers.
If these are patentable items I would like to patent "the ability to go on two legs upright in order to move forward" so I can sue every human on the planet.
@janvl

if you do it in software, you probably can get a patent on it
@adr5@...
Actually MS already has a patent on this AW algorithm. It's called the geek method. AKA, use previously used paper to wipe. happy
I think I'll patent "a system for screwing up everything without any body knowing what really happened."

That way I could own the Patent system, The Fed, The Government, and blame everything on them, for a FEE!
0 Votes
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M$ must crash and die
Linux Geek 25th Jun 2010
and the world would be a better place.
The courts should help us in the struggle against the beast!
@Linux Geek
Get a life
@neverhome The ignorance never ceases to amaze me from that one.
  • Flagged
@Linux Geek Nahhhh. Would not. MS makes pretty good stuff and the market is the proof. Linux is generally hard to use, hard to configure, hard to install software on (if you can find what you want), has incompatible distros which make widespread use in a homogeneous array a pain in the butt... when compared to Microsoft.

But it is free, sort of.
@Linux Geek ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......... lost ball in tall weeds...
I'm going to patent the process of getting a patent. Seems like you can patent just about everything else in the world.
@psquared007
How's about patenting the process of filing lawsuits? No one could sue but you (because you could sue them if they tried). It would be almost god-like. happy
0 Votes
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Dreamers...
neverhome 25th Jun 2010
@John Biles ... yep, we're dreamers. We dream of the day when left-wingers like our current Prez are consigned to the dust bin of history and America returns to her roots. Go ahead and snicker. The carnage in the midterm elections will be a beautiful thing to see. Ok, 'scuse me for getting off-topic. Can't help myself during election season.
@neverhome you mean when ALL the incumbents get replaced, both Dem and Rep? yeah that will be a great day....
0 Votes
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Salesforce sues Microsoft. Unexpected?
wanderson 25th Jun 2010
The madness that is the US Software Industry, particularly in regard to Software Patents continues unabated because those persons - for example that support and are dupes of companies like Microsoft only get upset and want to make meaningful changes when their beloved masters are negatively affected.

Microsoft has for years attempted - and been successful - at stifling innovation and competition from small and other entities through methods like Law suits and harassment.

If everyone is so upset - change the law! and stop griping. Most technologists here wanted a stupid system, so live with it.

W. Anderson
@wanderson

i didn't, and i'm trying with what few resources i have to change it.
0 Votes
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broken and corrupt system
Don't Ask Me 25th Jun 2010
The current patent system is used to prevent competition not protect innovative methods of doing things. They need to come up with a system of protection that protects new innovative software from being copied at a higher level and only for things that are truly innovative (non-obvious). They could at least limit software patents to 3 to 5 years which is a generation in computer terms. Unfortunately the current system makes the US money and the politicians lawyer friends money and protects the oligopoly so their and their family stock funds keep rising so the corruption will continue...
@Don't Ask Me

i think you hit the nail squarely on the head... i just wish it were into the coffin of software patents
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Seriously? Someone at SFDC actually thinks that these patents are going to hold up in court?
Of couse if SFDC brings the charges in East Texas Fedral Court, well anything can happen there.
Seriously? Someone at SFDC actually thinks that these patents are going to hold up in court? ASP.Net and Web Services? Really? Did SFDC forget that MS, IBM & Ariba were the orignal SOAP working group and wrote the first WSDL spec?

Of couse if SFDC brings the charges in East Texas Fedral Court, well anything can happen there.
To heck with Salesforce! Microsoft will prove they are not infringing, Salesforce is going to lose customers due to this.
After reading the thumbnail list of complaints it seems to me that neither company has a sound basis for claiming ownership of the concept or operational execution of any of the functions listed. It's as ridiculous as patenting the human genome... which is REALLY idiotic, because nobody invented it, but its makeup has been incrementally discovered over time. Should you be able to patent the planet Mars, just because you were the first one to visit?

Well, how about: ?system and method for controlling access to data entities in a computer network?? What computing outfit doesn't have that capability? I am pretty sure these guys really could find better things to do.
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RE: Salesforce retaliates; sues Microsoft for allged patent infringement
makrekwe29-24353598471777462757714216093602 10th Nov
bjxnrz,good post!

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