ie8 fix

The mystery continues: Why are Windows machines automatically updating themselves?

By | October 15, 2007, 4:19am PDT

Summary: Microsoft is continuing to investigate how and why some Windows Vista users saw their machines automatically patch and reboot last week, even though these users had opted out of Automatic Updates. Microsoft is now saying it was neither Automatic Update nor last week’s batch of patches at fault.

A (slight) update on last week’s report that some Windows users are seeing their Vista PCs automatically update themselves and reboot.

From Nate Clinton, a Microsoft Update Program Manager, via the Microsoft Update Product Team blog:The mystery continues: Why are Windows machines automatically updating themselves?

“We have been hearing some questions recently regarding Tuesday’s update release changing automatic updating settings. We have received some logs from customers, and have so far been able to determine that their AU settings were not changed by any changes to the AU client itself and also not changed by any updates installed by AU.

“We are still looking into this to see if another application is making this change during setup with user consent, or if this issue is related to something else. We are continuing the investigation, and as I have more information I will update this post.

“If you are running into this issue, your help would be greatly appreciated. You can contact support, and they can walk you through the steps necessary to provide logs and other useful data.”

So, it doesn’t seem to be Automatic Update (AU) or the patches themselves at fault. So what caused last Past Tuesday’s patches to be installed automatically and machines to be rebooted for a group of users who had chosen not to allow automatic installation of patches — as originally reported on the AeroXperience site? It’s still not clear whether it is Vista only (or also XP) that is affected and whether Windows Software Update Services (WSUS) users have seen the same problem.

More to come when there’s new info to share.

Update (3:30 p.m. EST): I’ve gotten notes from a few users saying that XP is also affected. Microsoft officials had declined to comment on which versions of Windows were affected by this update glitch. So far it seems to be XP and Vista. Other users of other Windows releases out there having the same trouble?

(74 actualitzacions de seguretat per instal·lar. Image by xcaballe. CC 2.0)

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
274
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: The mystery continues: Why are Windows machines automatically updating themselves?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Your internet site nfljerseys may perhaps be mentioned in an content former to to check out. Excellent details you have right here. I'll transfer by however once more.
0 Votes
+ -
If MS actually was doing something sneaky...
Henrik Moller 15th Oct 2007
...would you really expect the "Microsoft Update Program Manager" to admit it?
0 Votes
+ -
Maybe not
laura.b 15th Oct 2007
But they did the last time they got caught.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=780
People constantly referring to this "stealth issue"

ITS NOT TRUE!

You think that because you set ONE part of the component to NOT auto update, that it meant ALL components.

This is not microsoft's view of what turning off the automatic updates does.

To STOP automatic updates you MUST DISABLE THE SERVICE!

If you don't disable the service, then you have a service running that at any time *CAN* call home, *CAN* get updates, and *MAY* respect the "turn off auto update" setting.

Again, the update was an update to the updater SERVICE, and because the service was running that was microsoft's assumed permission to update IT, and because it required a reboot.. it rebooted the pc..

SO.. No more.. you want auto updates off.. DISABLE THE SERVICE !!

This also may be a new twist, as others report the settings were changed ... when were they changed.. BEFORE THE REBOOT? HMMmmm doens't that seem logical? If the service was set to "not get updates" and not set for disabled, then again, some other application could have come along and re-set the auto update setting, and at the very least could have updated the updater again again.. submitted for reboot.

OFF and DISABLED are two different terms..
0 Votes
+ -
Yep, it true
greblach 16th Oct 2007
Microsoft dosen't recognize OFF and ON as binary conditions. There are many gradients, ranging from OFF, to partly OFF, through mostly ON, all the way to ON. Now when it comes to security, there is only LOW, MEDIUM, and HIGH. So in your five day forecast you'll see "Security LOW through Thursday, turning to MEDIUM on Friday and back to LOW for the weekend. Updates will range from Mostly ON to Partly OFF through Thursday, changing to Mostly ON on Friday, with scattered updates through the weekend.
0 Votes
+ -
But they admitted it when confronted
laura.b 16th Oct 2007
That was the point.

I don't. It didn't screw up my system, I've got the automatic updates turned on because I don't want to deal with them.

I argued the same point you're arguing the last time this was an issue.
0 Votes
+ -
But they admitted it when confronted
laura.b 16th Oct 2007
That was the point.

It didn't screw up my system, I've got the automatic updates turned on because I don't want to deal with them.

I argued the same point you're arguing the last time this was an issue.
0 Votes
+ -
solutions?
sfazly 16th Oct 2007
I remember there's one OS that if there's an update, it will ask you to download or not,
and if you do, it will warn you if the update needs restarting or not. No monkey
business, no mystery, nothing to worry, no hidden thing whatsoever. What's the name
of the OS again.. oh ya, Mac OS X
0 Votes
+ -
Disable How?
knightrider2@... 16th Oct 2007
My auto update was disabled, I did it myself, because it interferes
with any games that are running, but MS still managed to download and switch auto updates back on some how.
This was on an XP machine.
0 Votes
+ -
Just to add to this...
rcar 16th Oct 2007
You need to do more than just disable the service...

Go into the Local Security Policy (gpedit.msc) and set these options:

Computer Configuration - Administrative Templates - Windows Components - Windows Update - Configure Automatic Updates - Disabled

User Configuration - Administrative Templates - Windows Components - Windows Update - Remove access to use all Windows Update features - Disabled

User Configuration - Administrative Templates - Windows Components - Start Menu and Taskbar - Remove links and access to Windows Update - Enabled

Of course, MS may still try to circumvent this but it's worked for us for the last several years.
Frankly my dear, I don't give a Smurf for "microsoft's view of what turning off the automatic updates does". If I press any control that says, in plain English, turn off Updates, and Updates continue, I have been told double-minus untruth.
0 Votes
+ -
Given that they could easily make Windows do anything they want to, even make
secret copies of your hottest porn for their own edification, I find it unlikely that
they're doing anything as clumsily sneaky as forcing stealth updates for nefarious
purposes. Not that they're incapable of nefarious purposes (check Eller's book for
more details), but I don't think they're that daft.

They might have had code in there to force updates because they thought they had
legitimate reasons for it, and they're surprised that it triggered again after the row
over the last update, or they don't and they're completely befuddled because...

* They've got a bug in the update code they haven't found yet.
* They've got a bug that's messing with the policy database.
* The people who are reporting the surprise updates don't know how they have
policies set.
* Some other application (as they postulate) is fiddling with the updates or policies.

Now, I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. But that's my take.
0 Votes
+ -
confused
aussieblnd@... 15th Oct 2007
ok so if all that is or could be true then they come along and say "well this would never happen if you people did not put 3rd party software and security programs on your computer you must have MICROSOFT Onecare or what ever the Microsoft program of the month is!
0 Votes
+ -
Wasn't there...
Wolfie2K3 16th Oct 2007
* Some other application (as they postulate) is fiddling with the updates or policies.

Now, I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. But that's my take.


...a virus a while back that tried to "do the right thing"...? Oh yeah - Netsky. It tried to do its best to remove other viruses - Blaster and MyDoom, if I recall correctly.

So what's to say some well meaning wanker didn't write something that, like Netsky, is trying to "do the right thing.."? I know it's a bit of a stretch, but hey, stranger things have happened.
0 Votes
+ -
Microsoft wouldn't lie
fr0thy 15th Oct 2007
I've been a sysadmin for 4 months now so I know what I'm talking about. You guys need to read more of Microsoft "technical/marketing" material like I do to be up to date. Don't bother switching to Linux or Mac, I can tell you that I tried them one evening and couldn't get them to work. What a waste of 30 minutes that was. If you think you have a problem with your machine all you have to do is type in ping, then you can tell if it was Microsoft's fault or not. People shouldn't knock Bill & Steve, if Windows wasn't the best possible software ever they wouldn't be so [financially] successful. You must all start being nicer to Microsoft because otherwise they won't be able to take over the entire world. I must go now, I have a serial to VGA connection to solder.
0 Votes
+ -
Wow, now that was subjective!
Linux User 147560 15th Oct 2007
You tried for a whole whopping 30 minutes to set up a Linux box and you're a Windows admin for 4 months! Nice way to be unbiased there!

I will give you a 7.5 for troll score. devil
0 Votes
+ -
Permission...
Information_z 15th Oct 2007
... not being given is the real issue here.

Microsoft should know better than to lie anyway, the truth is impossible to hide in the long term. That still doesn't mean that they are intelligent enough to follow common sense, after all look at their recent attacks on Linux!

This new problem is disconcerting to say the least. I assisted a client in setting up Vista and had to use System Restore to remove an update that was causing the optical drives to disappear from her system. I hope I don't have to return to redo my work.

The mystery to me is how a third party could have any involvement in this gaff at all. This sounds like a OS problem and yet if XP is effected as well it will be interesting to find out what the cause is. Has anyone not been effected? That would be a sign of the origin of the problem, would it not?
0 Votes
+ -
Same principle as DRM
jeffdickey 16th Oct 2007
DRM and Windows Update suffer from the same problem: If you design a system so that the "Good" Guys can update/disable it, then there are three obvious corollaries:
* The "Bad" Guys can 0wn the system at will;
* Defective software can cause inadvertent denial-of-service;
* the end user doesn't really own the system in question; he's just paying for it.

The fact that millions of people put up with this sort of nonsense would have been unbelievable 30 or 40 years ago. The fact that people today accept it without question speaks volumes about the decline of personal freedoms and responsibility in "modern" culture. *Sigh*

0 Votes
+ -
In a nutshell! nt
Ole Man 16th Oct 2007
nt
0 Votes
+ -
winblows auto update?!?
candusound 20th Oct 2007
Gee wiz guys, I haven't had a single problem with xp pro... of course I haven't updated winblows in over a year and a half. I just keep my third-party av and mal/spyware progs up to date. But my daughter has a hp laptop with Vista (with auto update) and she has had nothing but problems... Go figure!!
0 Votes
+ -
subjective!
aussieblnd@... 15th Oct 2007
Linux user he's making a joke, it was meant to be funny! Sweetie lighten up!
Do not take the little red pills with coffee or tea!
0 Votes
+ -
Wow
notsofast 15th Oct 2007
How did you miss the obvious sarcasm in that post?

It's not like he was subtle.
0 Votes
+ -
DOH!
jns@... 15th Oct 2007
The guy was being sarcastic. I guess irony isn't something you are aware of.

Trolls for the troll - lighten up.
0 Votes
+ -
You missed it
critic-at-arms 15th Oct 2007
The whole message was a joke on the MS cultists.
0 Votes
+ -
Okay!
Linux User 147560 15th Oct 2007
So I have been had... need more tea in the morning... devil
0 Votes
+ -
Get it?
Carl3Surf 18th Oct 2007
I don't think you got the joke of the original poster.
He was being sarcastic.
0 Votes
+ -
That was brilliant. 9.5.
heres_johnny 15th Oct 2007
Perhaps Mike Cox has found a worthy successor. You're going to catch a lot of fish that way. Very subtle. Kept me grinning for five whole minutes, though I'm sure that doesn't compare to your 30 minutes of wasted time. happy
0 Votes
+ -
Subtle?
notsofast 15th Oct 2007
It was subtle at the beginning, but I don't see how anyone whose first language is English could take it seriously (unless they quit reading before they finished the 4th sentence, which is less than half the text). And one could argue that the damning people for not reading more marketing material was also a dead give away.
0 Votes
+ -
8.9!
handydan918 15th Oct 2007
We have a budding Mike Cox here! Keep it up, pal! This forum NEEDS you!
0 Votes
+ -
Had me going there for a minute . . .
critic-at-arms 15th Oct 2007
. . .but this one should be saved for the next time MS pulls some dumb stunt (next week).
0 Votes
+ -
Is that a serious post?
JonWayn 16th Oct 2007
Jump off a cliff
0 Votes
+ -
Microsoft wouldn't lie.
allan_day@... 16th Oct 2007
Wow 4 months yer still learning mate. :0)
0 Votes
+ -
8.5 Great!
swenger 16th Oct 2007
You're not Mike Cox but you have great potential. This forum needs more people who can see the humor in the "MY OS IS MY RELIGION' crowd. Thanks
0 Votes
+ -
10.0!!!!
mstngtim@... 19th Oct 2007
OMG!!! I am still laughing at this and I can't believe all of you that actually took this serious! ROFLMAO
Thanks for the injection of major humor. Keep it up!
0 Votes
+ -
Xp Pro same problem
davagain 15th Oct 2007
I had the same thing happen on 2 XP Pro SP2 computers. Set to d/l and notify. instead, they installed and re-booted.
0 Votes
+ -
And I...
Syzygy01 15th Oct 2007
I have one machine with XP Pro, one with Media and two with Home and they all installed. Maybe that's why I keep one with 2000 Pro in my office.
0 Votes
+ -
XP Pro same problem
carcollector 15th Oct 2007
I'm running two XP Pro units, both d/l the patches, but did not reboot until I shut down, at which point it advised that Windows was going to install them and then would automatically shut down; which it did. I've not noticed any differences in performance.
0 Votes
+ -
I thought something odd had happened to mine also when I found it had rebooted after a 'self' install too. I had my settings also configured to download and notify only. This is the first time that has happened that I'm aware of. XP - sp2
0 Votes
+ -
So that's why my PC rebooteed ...
stephenjwalter@... 15th Oct 2007
... had me flummoxed to find a reboot had happened and nothing in the logs to indicate there had been a problem.
0 Votes
+ -
Another XP Pro "attempted" update
Provox DCS 18th Oct 2007
I was on my PC and noticed that it was acting sluggish as though the memory was being used excessively. Ran Task mgr and found WUsomething running and shut it down on the spot. My PC is set to do basically nothing as regards updates. I go to the update site periodically and download updates as needed. Download & Notify or whatever are all turned off.
We're running WSUS 3.0 in our organization with Group Policy controling client updates, and did not experience this. Administrators have to approve all updates before they are installed. My gut tells me it only affects machines who receive updates directly from MS, but I could be wrong.
0 Votes
+ -
I work on a managed network also and we don't experience this either. The question is, is it fair or rreasonable to expect home and the typical small business user to have to endure this type of chicanery?
0 Votes
+ -
We're running
aussieblnd@... 15th Oct 2007
No it's not reasonable, would it be cost effective for smaller networks! In most cases no, but you could put your modem on a timmer that will power it down at night after hours, while leaving the router and hub up! That shuts down all outside access. As for the home user just shut the computer down at night!
I have all of our servers set to download, then notify me, and most of the systems too (some remote users I leave top auto-install, becaiuse otherwise they wouldn't update anything, ever!)

The settings are still exactly that - download, THEN notify BEFORE install, yet my Dull laptop auto-installed and started a 5-minute count-down before automatically rebooting. I know, because I watched it do it, yet I have only recently re-installed my OS (XP, btw!!) and have only a couple of extras installed (Office, ACT [DB program] and Divers (data-mining).
I am a sysadmin, and have been doing this for 27 years, so I think I know my way around by now, but I can see NO reason for the auto-install and reboot (like I said - all is still set to download but NOT install so I can check what it will be doing first!)

The bit that makes me most suspicious of it being an MS backdoor coding 'glitch' is the 5-minute counter - not something that appears on normal updates!

Hmmmmmm...

something fishy...

Nig.
0 Votes
+ -
We all are sysadmins in some form or another and if all your systems didn't update except for the one you recently reinstalled, sounds more like you forgot to set it correctly. I have never had any machine do this; newly installed or not cause I run a script that does all that the same way every time no matter what OS. But if you installed it manually, I point to you my friend. happy
0 Votes
+ -
same here
hsmphoto 15th Oct 2007
I'm running XP as well and have my Updates set for Custom install (like everyone else, I like to know what is going in and have the choice). A few times I will be informed that a restart is nessary (after installing the updates). If I'm working on a project, I'll click on later and reboot/restart when convenient. Like you (and the rest of us) noticed, this last time was different with the countdown clock showing up even though I clicked on "later". I was in the middle of working on a large graphics file (500+MB with 3 apps open) which I wanted to finish first. The "count-down-clock" showed up at (aprox) five minute intervals and whenever I switched the image between apps or did a partial "Save As" (the clock appeared about 20 times while I was working). I restarted when I finished and noticed that the restart took about 50% longer than usual (NAV and ZoneAlarm took quite a while to load). Permission settings for IE, Outlook Express, MSN Live and my newsgroups had to be reset. Never had to reset for the Newsgroups before.
0 Votes
+ -
The process of elimination...
Information_z 15th Oct 2007
... is interesting, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

It sounds like the timer was changed for this update. Annoyances aside, has anyone explicitly not accepted the update and recieved it anyway?
0 Votes
+ -
here
aussieblnd@... 15th Oct 2007
And to make things worse THIS was not a service pack update. Not the Long awaited XP SP3 or the VISTA SP1
0 Votes
+ -
Disable Auto Update
LucasKorso 15th Oct 2007
Me... XP & W2K with WU turned off, services disabled and the usual layer of armour (AVG, SpyBot, ZoneLabs, etc...) guess what? It has been years since i got my last problem with any pest (including WGA). People just need to take some care with the sites they visit, the attachments they open... and WU can ben safely turned off. don't ever ever jump on the "update or die" bandwagon.
0 Votes
+ -
Spoken like a true hacker
george.burdell@... 15th Oct 2007
Whether you update (automatically, or not) is your choice. I'm sure all of the hackers out there would love it if nobody updated their computer.

So unless you think Microsoft is out to get you, update your computer.
0 Votes
+ -
The best protection against attacks by black hats aren't updates, the best
protection is to reduce the surface area for attack.

* Disable autorun.
* Disable SMS.
* Disable Server.
* Disable "DNS Client" services EXCEPT on laptops that need to be used on
networks that don't support DNS.
* Don't use Internet Explorer, any old versions of Outlook (the latest version with
the "degraded" HTML control may be safe), Windows Media Player, Yahoo
Messenger, Realplayer, or any other application that uses the standard Microsoft
HTML control EXCEPT Windows Explorer and Microsoft Update/Windows Update.
* Don't use "Active Desktop".
* Run Windows Update / Microsoft Update manually, not automatically.
* Use a standalone antivirus package, if you can, rather than one that embeds itself
in the system.
* Likewise, use a standalone anti-spyware package, not one that embeds itself in
the system.
* Make sure that your mailserver is running antivirus scans on incoming mail.

And, finally, the reason not to run automatic updates has nothing to do with
whether Microsoft is out to get you, it's because there have been cases in the past
(and not just on Windows) where early adopters of updates were sorry they didn't
wait.
0 Votes
+ -
Your internet site nfljerseys may perhaps be mentioned in an content former to to check out. Excellent details you have right here. I'll transfer by however once more.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix