What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

Summary: Signs are pointing to Microsoft backing away from IronRuby, the .Net-targeted implementation of the Ruby dynamic programming language that the company has been developing and funding for the past couple of years.

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Signs are pointing to Microsoft backing away from IronRuby, the .Net-targeted implementation of the Ruby dynamic programming language that the company has been developing and funding for the past couple of years.

For a while, it looked as if Microsoft was moving full-steam-ahead with dynamic languages. Adding the Dynamic Language Runtime to the Common Language Runtime made the Redmondians seem even more committed. A couple of weeks ago, Microsoft seemed to up the ante again by making IronRuby and IronPython available under the Apache 2 open-source license. Around the same time, Microsoft released version 1.1 of IronRuby and an alpha of IronPython 2.7.

But all isn't rosy in IronRuby land. According to a now former IronRuby developer, Jimmy Schementi, Microsoft has just one developer left on that project (who is committed to it half-time). Schementi recently quit Microsoft when his manager asked him "what else would you want to work on other than Ruby," he blogged.

Schementi's August 6 blog post about his departure from Microsoft has resulted in lots of questions about Microsoft's intentions around IronRuby, IronPython and dynamic languages in general. Developers are wondering whether to continue with IronRuby projects; whether Silverlight and Azure support are in the cards and more.

(I've asked the Softies a bunch of these questions, as well as about the future of IronPython, but no official word back so far.)

Update (August 10): Microsoft is not commenting on the future of IronRuby. Here's the official word from Chris Dias, Group Program Manager, Visual Studio:

“At this time, we have no announcements to make about IronRuby and IronPython beyond what we announced in July 2010 -- that we were putting these under the Apache License v2.0. Clearly, there is customer and community interest in these languages. With many organizations running mixed IT environments, we continue to value community feedback on how we can support their interoperability needs, and we remain committed to supporting multiple tools and languages that provide developers with the most choice and flexibility."

Members of the Ruby community already are talking about the possibility of transitioning IronRuby to non-Microsoft ownership, with members of the community taking charge of the project. For that to happen, however, Microsoft needs to be clear about its intentions, as Schementi told members of the IronRuby Core mailing list:

"Though IronRuby is licensed under an open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. Etc, etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so that we don't need to jointly own the copyright."

Some kind of an official transition is definitely in order, blogged Mono team member Jean-Baptiste Evain:

"The IronRuby team currently consists of one hacker. We don’t know much about the IronPython team. And everyone who wanted to work on .net with their favorite dynamic language is freaking out. To a reason. The good news is that the code of IronPython, IronRuby and the DLR is open source, and has recently been re-licensed under the Apache2 license. The official message is that IronRuby’s fate is now in the hands of the community.

"That doesn’t sound like a bright future. So far, the community has been excluded from the development process of IronRuby. It’s impossible to contribute code to the core compiler of IronRuby, let alone to the DLR which is now part of .net 4.0. The code in github is a mere mirror of an internal TFS repository, and may or may not be up to date. And until IronRuby’s divorce with Microsoft is completely consumed, it will stay like this. So, sure we can contribute to external libraries, but that’s definitely not where the fun lies, and from now on, nor where the real work will be required.

"So is the solution a fork?"

What's your read as to what's going on at Microsoft on the dynamic language front? Is it simply more Developer Division belt-tightening? Or did IronRuby lose favored status because of perceived competition with ASP.Net MVC? Should/could Microsoft pass the IronRuby torch to another group or the Ruby community at large?

Topics: Microsoft, Software Development

About

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for 30 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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  • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

    I like the idea that they release it as a codeplex project and let the community own it and Microsoft put their focus into MVC etc. Seems like a great fit to me
    incendy
    • Dynamic languages are horrible for serious projects

      @incendy The little reduction on # of lines cannot justify the troubles it brings to debugging, tooling, refactoring and maintenance.
      LBiege
      • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

        @LBiege

        I agree, I will always choose MVC because of those reasons and that is why I think MS should put their focus there.
        incendy
      • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

        @LBiege Given your response, I take it you've never actually used a dynamic language on a real project?
        panesofglass
  • Large parts of Ruby infrastructure moved to the DLR

    Compared to the official Ruby or JRuby, Microsoft has invested a lot in generalized platform support for dynamic languages.<br><br>The DLR supports dynamic member lookup for a number of different mechanisms. The way Ruby resolves members differs from JavaScript differs from Python. <br><br>DLR has lifted much of this work out from language the implementations and now provides it as a platform service. Implementing a dynamic language on top of the DLR is considerably easier than e.g on the JVM. And then you get dynamic interop to boot.<br><br>One part-time dev doesn't seem as much, though. But a few developers will probably be able to maintain an implementation provided that MS continues to support the DLR. Which everything indicates, as the DLR is really important to Silverlight in the browser as well.
    honeymonster
  • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

    Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. <br> News at 10.
    MAHESHC@...
  • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

    I'm sure someone will fork it with a new name like "steelruby" seeing as how it is open source. That is the path it probably should take, although financal support from a company would definitely help.
    step69
  • Not surprised

    Microsoft is clearly dropping support for these languages because the uptake is tiny. It was an interesting exercise for them to implement these languages, and it's advanced the state of the DLR, but C# 4 with its new dynamic extensions has the best of both worlds and has absorbed a large chunk of the dynamic language proponents, leaving the dynamic languages redundant.
    Dan Smith:
  • Ruby tools are much more important than the language

    For me the most important benefit of IronRuby would be to use the wealth of Ruby tools and frameworks, several of which are leaders in their field and some which simply have no practical equivalents. There are projects trying to implement the facilities of RubyGems, Rake, RSpec, Chef, Capistrano, Sinatra, migrations etc. etc. etc. to .NET but they are fragmented and partial.

    The cancellation of IronRuby and IronPython as supported projects means that in practice Microsoft developers who want to use one or more of these leading edge tools in their work have been put in a very difficult position. I suspect that is why some people have been so vocal about this.
    stuart.ellis
  • Good job scaring away developers

    Microsoft needs to stop wasting money in ineffective marketing and start using more money for the sake of PR. As much as I don't personally like Ruby, dropping projects like IronRuby and IronPython alienates half of the programming community. It also signals project owners that Microsoft might drop any of their relied technologies at any time.<br><br>Why is Microsoft so out of touch?
    reinux
    • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

      @reinux - Great way to jump the gun. Nobody (outside MS) yet knows what their plans are for their dynamic languages.

      Chances are that they'll release IronRuby (and perhaps IronPython) to CodePlex or some other community now that they've completed the DLR included as part of .NET FX 4.0. In this way, the community could continue to drive Iron*'s development forward while MS could focus on continuing to make the DLR sing.

      Oh ... and don't be so naiive - ANY vendor can drop ANY product at ANY time, be the vendor an OSS community or a closed-source product company. Even OSS projects that are mothballed end up stagnant, abandoned or worse.
      de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023
  • RE: What's next for Microsoft's IronRuby?

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