ie8 fix

Windows enthusiasts launch 'Boycott Opera' campaign

By | June 15, 2009, 7:20am PDT

The JCXP.Net Windows enthusiast site has launched a “Boycott Opera” campaign aimed at users who are unhappy over Opera’s antitrust suit against Microsoft.

It was Opera’s 2007 antitrust complaint that mushroomed into the current antitrust case in the European Union over Microsoft’s browser-bundling policies.

JCXP announced its boycott campaign on June 12. In a blog post, JCXP Managing Editor David Taraso announced the proposed boycott, attributing it to Opera’s decision to sue Microsoft for antitrust. He said:

Today, we are proposing a complete boycott of all Opera software.

“This is absolutely nothing more than a company, who can’t legitimately gain market share, trying to squeeze their unpopular browser onto Windows systems.Opera is simply upset because their browser is dead last in market share, and has already been surpassed by the recently released Google Chrome browser and Apple’s Safari browser for Windows.”

In a second post, on June 14, Taraso spelled out more directly the reasons he is pushing the boycott:

“I would like to make one thing clear though. I don’t hate Opera and I don’t hate their browser (Opera 9 was my main browser for most of 2008). Opera has introduced many fantastic innovations to the browser market over the years, and I applaud them for that. But I don’t agree with what they are trying to do here. I definitely agree that Opera should have a larger market share, but not by forcing Microsoft to advertise their product in Windows.”

Last week, word was circulating that the European Commission was considering as one remedy in the case the inclusion by PC makers of a “ballot screen” that would require users to choose a browser for their Windows PCs at startup. Microsoft, trying to head off the ballot-screen remedy, announced last week plans to ship Windows 7 in European without Internet Explorer 8 bundled into it. Opera officials said they considered Microsoft’s Windows 7 E plan to be an inadequate response to their concerns.

What’s your take? Is an Opera boycott the best way for those who believe Microsoft should be allowed to integrate IE into Windows to make their views known?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Windows enthusiasts launch 'Boycott Opera' campaign
makrejktt3601-24353674055577310839673264801767 11th Nov
vtibch,good post!
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What is a "Windows Enthusiast"?
Looks Confused 15th Jun 2009
This is something I don't understand. I've never understood how someone could get behind a for profit company like this. I could never understand how someone could get so passionate about automobile manufacturing companies either. Maybe I'm immune to marketing or something. Seriously, who has ever heard of some one behaving this way towards Wal-Mart, or Burger King, or even 3M, or GE? What is different about Microsoft.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Hans
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I noticed something....
Hallowed are the Ori Updated - 15th Jun 2009
You conspicuously left Apple out of your list.

Why is that?
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Yeah, ok, Apple too, along with Microsoft.
Looks Confused 15th Jun 2009
I did forget Apple: I don't get that either.

Hans
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Follow the money trail
Ole Man 15th Jun 2009
Perhaps its because all these other companies don't pay millions/billions to anybody who is willing to parrot how great they are. Or make mucho dinaro by promoting/selling/supporting their products.
  • Flagged
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Want to back up....
Erroneous 15th Jun 2009
your claims? Microsoft has never put 1 penny in my pocket directly. I make my money using their products with my employer.
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Microsoft routinely pays for PR
comp_indiana 16th Jun 2009
Here's a link for you from the Chronicle of Higher Education:

http://chronicle.com/data/articles.dir/art-44.dir/issue-
33.dir/33a03001.htm

I'm not saying it's wrong, just don't pretend it doesn't happen.

Look at ZDNet... another great example. happy
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Same here
TylerM89 15th Jun 2009
I've never been paid by Microsoft in any way to promote their products.

I use them happily and can't recommend them enough. Why? Because they work or at least have dedicate infrastructure to get fixed.

I'm really growing tired of anti-Microsoft people claiming the only people who promote MS products are paid "shills". Excuse me, but I and millions of others use Microsoft products not because we are forced to but because they work, we've grown up with them and don't really care to switch so stop bashing us for using them.
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Whatever
Wintel BSOD 16th Jun 2009
I'm really growing tired of anti-Microsoft people claiming the only people who promote MS products are paid "shills". Excuse me, but I and millions of others use Microsoft products not because we are forced to but because they work, we've grown up with them and don't really care to switch so stop bashing us for using them.

I use it because I'm forced to use it through my employer. It's a necessity that I can live with since they're paying me for it, but I have no great love for monopolies or people who aren't willing to consider other possibilities.
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Same song, different singer.
Will Lewis 16th Jun 2009
In the middle ages you had two choices: toil away on the vast land holdings of a feudal lords, or try to make a go of life in the unprotected wilderness. Something smells familiar here.
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In the middle ages you had two choices: toil away on the vast land holdings of a feudal lords, or try to make a go of life in the unprotected wilderness. Something smells familiar here.

...then they'll never make a go of it on their own...

You're right. Good analogy, here. If that's what you meant.

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Too many assumtions...
shadfurman 16th Jun 2009
A monopoly is only a successful company that
lacks competitors... in fact it doesn't even
have to be that successful to be a monopoly.
How is it a companies fault if it doesn't have
competitors? Only if they've killed the other
companies through ILLEGAL anti-competitive
techniques. Any practice that results in the
lost market of a competitor is considered by
some to be anti-competitive. So essentially
there are many in this world who just don't
like successful companies, cause successful
companies take most of the market share. Now...
Microsoft is NOT a monopoly, cause they have
LOT'S of competition.

I as well as many others regularly try other
OS's looking for better products. I'm glad we
have virtual machines now cause that doesn't
mean I have to keep a separate partition where
I can only test 1 OS at a time. These are the
OS's I'm testing at the moment (I have not
standardized testing, I just use them on
occasion, if I find myself not using one I get
rid of it.)

BeOS
DexOS
Fendora 10
FreeDos (for nostalgia sake)
Google Andriod
Ubuntu
MenuetOS
Moblin 2
OpenSolaris
ReactOS
Windows 1.0 (for nostalgia sake)
Windows 3.1 (for nostalgia sake)
Windows 98 (for nostalgia sake)
Windows 7

Asside from windows 7 I have yet to find one
that I really like. Some of my friends think I
am biased. Of course cause of the shorter
learning curve, already being familiar with
previous windows versions, this is the truth.
But that is the only reason. I have actually
used Linux more than Windows 7 cause I'm more
interested in finding a copy of Linux I really
like.

I just like Windows best so far.

I find many "Windows enthusiasts" has a similar
attitude.

(SO THERE!) *sticks out tongue childishly*


  • Flagged
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Leave Apple Out Of This
yobtaf 16th Jun 2009
This Has nothing to do with apple, bonehead.
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I think it does.
Looks Confused 16th Jun 2009
Apple fits the same definition of a commercial activity with enthusiastic supporters as Microsoft does. I don't understand why anyone would do that. So, it was a fair question for John to ask, and I had only omitted Apple from the list out of oversight. I'm sure there are other examples I've left out.

Hans
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Give us an example of Apple paying for PR
comp_indiana 16th Jun 2009
They don't do this anywhere near as much as MS. Companies do give
freebies away at conferences, etc... sure, but Microsoft actually pays
people to write favorable things about them.

http://chronicle.com/data/articles.dir/art-44.dir/issue-
33.dir/33a03001.htm

Other companies (including all the ones you mentioned) do not do this.
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Apple's marketing budget in 2008 was $486M
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 16th Jun 2009
More even than Microsoft paid for marketing Vista!
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/21/yup-apples-advertising-budget-is-bigger-than-microsoft-vistas/

Don't be so naive - Apple, like Microsoft is a for-profit Corporation. Like Microsoft, Apple has a duty to its shareholders to generate profits. The only way companies do this is by making more money than they spend. In order to make money, you have to advertize, market, schmooze, wine, dine and flatter anyone who will write/say something nice about you or your products.
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I'm not sure why you want me to do that.
Looks Confused 16th Jun 2009
In the context of my original post, Apple is no different than Microsoft. John correctly asked me about the ommission, and I agreed that there is no difference between them with respect to the way I phrased my post. That is what I referred to in your posts parent (my previous reply). As far as this thread is concerned, I have no comment on any thing not related to my original question.

Hans
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Uh... Turn on your TV...
Wolfie2K3 16th Jun 2009
...and watch for a few hours. You might actually see one of those lamebrained Mac Vs PC ads...

You might also want to visit CES or one of the other trade shows. Just count the number of bags you can pick up, full of near useless crap with corporate logos emblazoned on them. On rare occasions, you might get something somewhat useful from the booth babes - a pen, a USB stick drive, a small notepad, a calculator...

I'm sure Apple has their own line of stuff they give out as well. They're really no different than IBM, Microsoft, Dell, HP, or any of the other bazillion or so exhibitors that show up at these shows.
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Eum... Product placement anyone?
thedudez 17th Jun 2009
Have you never wondered why in practically every TV show they have macs on every desk in every possible setting? Have you never wondered why that is? I mean... it IS known that Apple means nothing at all in the enterprise world. Walk into 100 offices and you will be lucky if you see 1 or 2 with macs. Yet, on tv shows they ALL have macs.

Think about that for a second...
Product placement in tv shows is an ENORMOUS part of advertisement. In some cases even more expensive then actuall advertisement during commercial brakes between shows.

Apple is actually KNOWN for their marketing and PR departments. Much more then for their actual products.
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Seen an Apple logo lately?
Dr. John 17th Jun 2009
Have you seen an Apple logo that happened to be placed anywhere other than directly on one of their products? Sure you have.

Guess what! They paid for it!

Apple has, and has had, employees - for those who have difficulty with concepts, that means Apple pays their salaries - who do nothing but write good things about Apple.
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examples
kRanki1 20th Jun 2009
ok .. so i used to work for the big fruit.

they don't generally pay or even discount for most of the promos other companies run using their product. they do however keep 'shells' of their product available to be used in product placement in films / tv etc. so this is true .. they generally don't pay for product placement .. people just want to use their prod's in this way.

they do however, have an 'ambassador' program where folks (generally celeb's) are paid and supplied free product to promote their wares. Of course, Apple also have a huge marketing effort and hordes of PR professionals working for them directly so it's quite naive to think they don't pay for PR. it's their oxygen ..
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Read the comment he was replying to duf!
shadfurman 16th Jun 2009
nt
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in a way it does
kaninelupus 17th Jun 2009
Notice how Apple bundles Safari in the same way MS bundles IE yet there has been no heat in their corner??
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I think that the reason that they don't...
Michael Alan Goff 20th Jun 2009
is because the 'Mac' has roughly ten percent of
the market share. They aren't any better, or
worse, they just aren't the biggest nail. That's
why they don't get pummeled for everything that
they do, like Microsoft does.

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't."
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Another clueless open source groupie...
croberts Updated - 15th Jun 2009
I could quote you the Websters definition of "Enthusiast", but I think you are being purposely dense.

Do you really believe that enthusiasts can only support non-profit entities?

If that's the case, then you and the rest of the software hippies truly don't have a clue why open source cannot gain market share without stuffing open source down the faces of people who have no desire to use it.

Microsoft's move is a stroke of genius. Remove IE and let people pick.

But of course that's not what the modern day software hippies want. They know best, and they want to stuff that granola down your throat whether you want it or not.

Sounds a lot like Microsoft, so you'll forgive me if I stick with the "evil empire". At least I know their motive is simple profit and not some eurotopian geopolitical agenda.

BTW... If Opera would actually finish something (anything!) and get out of perpetual beta, you'd see it was a for-profit company too.
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Clueless (maybe) Hippie (doubt it)
Looks Confused 15th Jun 2009
I could quote you the Websters definition of "Enthusiast", but I think you are being purposely dense.

Do you really believe that enthusiasts can only support non-profit entities?

I'm sorry, the title was meant as a rhetorical device (hence the dense). And to answer your question directly, the part I don't understand, and was asking about is exactly what you asked me about: I can't see why anyone would be a passionate supporter of commercial activities. Another poster mentioned their support for some of the good things Microsoft has done for schools. I can see being enthusiastic about that, in the same way I'm enthusiastic about the vaccine program supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
I don't get the other thing at all. I don't get the sports teams thing either. I can really get behind my children's sports teams. But professional sports? I don't think so.

Hans
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An anology you can understand
gnesterenko Updated - 15th Jun 2009
Honda civic. Its not a spectacular car by any means or form. Its a car. It goes places. And it has a fanatical following of people who will mod the heck out of it, put on custom everything, show off their projects to each other, brag to each other, ridicule one another, and spend thousands of dollars because they are passionate about this product that came from a for-profit organization.

It has nothing to do with who made the product, but the product itself. If said product treats a person well, they will be loyal to the company. If others begin to bash said company (often times with no good reason and using false, outdated, or straight made-up information - such as with *nix and Apple crowd and Vista) then they will see said bashing as an indirect assault upon themselves. Hence any time someone bad-mouths Vista or MSFT, they only add to the flames of those for it, and those against it. Neither side is right, not entirely, but that is the society we have created. We have a 2 party system and we tend to pick a side and go with it all the way, even if there are some parts of it we don't aggree with. It's an us versus them mentality and it has been cultivated in this nation for hundreds of years and our race for thousands. It is useless to resist it - the best you can do is recognize it for what it is and use your superior awareness to navigate your chosen side to maximize the benefit to you. The rest of the participants are sheeple and you can't treat their 'opinion' with any sort of credibility.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
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Maybe
Looks Confused 15th Jun 2009
Honda civic.

As I said, I don't get the car thing at all. I don't understand people that do.

If said product treats a person well, they will be loyal to the company.

I have no brand loyalty, and don't understand why anyone else would.

We have a 2 party system and we tend to pick a side and go with it all the way, even if there are some parts of it we don't aggree with.

I am not a member of any political party. I don't really understand why anyone would want to be part a a political party, unless they are an activist. Even then, I'm not so sure.

It's an us versus them mentality and it has been cultivated in this nation for hundreds of years and our race for thousands.

I think this may be germane (other posters have mentioned human nature and similar motivations). Its not an answer I like, but then again, the answer doesn't care how I feel. I'd like to think we, as a race, are making progress towards getting past this kind of silliness.

Thank you for your thought provoking response.

Hans
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Don't waste your time...
storm14k 15th Jun 2009
They just go along with the group think. Its one thing if you have some stock in MS. But most of these folk don't and just sit there supporting a company thats doing nothing more than taking their money. Anyone with common sense could see that to get what you want out of a for-profit company you don't support them. You threaten to NOT support them. Most are so jealous of FOSS support that they try to apply it to for-profit scenarios when its the exact opposite of what they should be doing.
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I'm no MS enthusiast, but...
online@... 16th Jun 2009
It seems to me that Microsoft does a good deal
more than takes people's money. Considering the
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of
people who make their living working with and
expanding Microsoft products, I'd say Microsoft
does a great deal toward making people's lives
happier and more productive.

That isn't to say that Microsoft is the only
company that does so, or will be the only
company to do so forever. It's debatable
whether the PC explosion that allows us to run
FOSS operating systems and applications would
even have been possible without Microsoft's
contribution. No matter what it would look a
lot different than it does today.

(BTW, I'm an Apple loyalist, though I use
Windows and MS products in my day job.)
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Group think..?
Wolfie2K3 16th Jun 2009
Dude, we who use Microsoft wares actually get plenty out of Redmond... We get an OS that allows us to do WORK. We make money using their software. It's not like we give them money and get nothing in return.

FOSS support? Is that the one where you go to a Linux forum and ask a newbie level question and get your head bitten off with rude responses?

Yeah... That's something really to aspire to. I really do wish that the folks at Microsoft adopted that very same rude attitude instead of bending over backwards and actually helping me with whatever issue I've got.

/sarcasm

Moron.
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poor example
DaemonSlayer 16th Jun 2009
I can take you to many forums, where the subject isn't an OS, and when someone asks what is considered a n00b question, they get their heads bit off, and then spat upon. Subject isn't limited to OS.
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Enthusiasts of Commercial Endeavors
MemeMeme 16th Jun 2009
Hans,

If you look around, you'll see countless examples of people who are fans or enthusiasts of commercial products and endeavors.

Apple enthusiasts are perhaps the most obvious and vocal example, though you'll also see enthusiasts for automobile manufacturers, professional sports teams and professional musicians. All of these entities are engaged in commercial activities, too, but attract crowds of fans.
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Certainly true, but...
Looks Confused 16th Jun 2009
I understand quite clearly that people do this. What I don't understand is why.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Hans
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Windows enthusiasts launch 'Boycott Opera' campaign
interested_amateur@... 18th Jun 2009
Human beings are social animals like ants. We like to live in colonies, cities, to help enhance our living standards. So we go with the flow, as it were.

Being accepted by the majority is one of life's little tribulations to overcome. Belonging to a large group helps to reinforce this acceptance.

Interested Amateur

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Understand completely
online@... 16th Jun 2009
Hans, I hear what you are saying. I'm not as
immune to these things as you are, but I have
the same desire to understand why. I think it
has to do with the basic human need to belong
to something bigger than yourself.

We want to give our loyalty to something
outside ourselves. Many people give this
loyalty to a religion, others to a country,
others to a sports team, still others to a
product or a cause. It gives us something in
common with (or in opposition to) other people,
something to immerse ourselves in, something to
converse about.

Such enthusiasm is really a sort of hobby.
Computer operating systems and application
software are complex and reward those who
devote time and energy to learning them -- just
like locksmithing, or model trains, or amateur
astronomy. And with the amount of leisure time
we have in the 21st century, we can afford to
have multiple enthusiasms -- our family, our
church, our computers, our cars.
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Human condition
PeterVS 16th Jun 2009
I think you have put forward some valid points but missed a major one here. People seek validation in what they do. If other agree with there way of doing things it reassures them. Often the more questionable the purchase/belief/os the more vehement people are in advocating it. I worked for a very dodgy computer company as a trainee technician and had the job of telling customers (on installing a system) that what they had bought was not up to the job and they had to buy all this extra stuff to make it work. They were always rightfully horrified, but as I found out second hand they were great advocates to there own peers.
Do you really believe that enthusiasts can only support non-profit entities?

I do believe that people can enthusiastically support for-profit entities. I don't understand it though, and that is what I was asking about.

Hans
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Opera, betas and profits.
Mipe Relons 15th Jun 2009
You must be confused:

> If Opera would actually finish something
> (anything!) and get out of perpetual beta,
> you'd see it was a for-profit company too.

Opera is at version 10. That means that 9 major versions have come out of beta.

You must be thinking about Google. Opera certainly never had any problems finishing new versions.

And for the record: Opera Software is a profitable company.

> Microsoft's move is a stroke of genius.
> Remove IE and let people pick.

A stroke of genius? It's a desperate attempt to avoid having to provide users with actual choice.

Instead of more choice, Microsoft chose to provide less.

And you can read more about why they did it here:

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/06/12/microsoft_windows_7_ie_europe/
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Not mistaken at all
croberts 15th Jun 2009
"Opera" isn't just the desktop browser. It's a company providing browsers for a variety of platforms.

Perhaps you'd care to point to a version of Opera Mobile that the company actually finished (non beta)....
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Finished Opera Mobile
Mipe Relons 15th Jun 2009
> Perhaps you'd care to point to a version of
> Opera Mobile that the company actually
> finished (non beta)....

Yes indeed. Opera Mobile 9.5 (FINAL) has already shipped on several devices, including the Samsung Omnia, HTC Touch Diamond, etc.

There's also the older versions of Opera Mobile, version 8.x.
0 Votes
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re:Opera, betas and profits.
byter_z 17th Jun 2009
Thanks mipe,
I had begun to believe I was reading an idiots forum.
0 Votes
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re
BOSS4908 15th Jun 2009
Great reply..You tell them. Microsoft is not the evil empire the EU is. Just ask MOST people in Europe and they will tell you. The Pm of England even agrees " The worst thing England had done and would love to take it back".
GO TO WELLS all that support it and their money grab with Opera under it wing.
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The EU president...
Erroneous 15th Jun 2009
compared it to living under communist Russia.
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EU President?
Chalfont 17th Jun 2009
No, there is no such person or position (and I am not a major enthusiast for the EU, but do like truth),.
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Evil empire?
Mipe Relons 15th Jun 2009
Regardless of whether or not the EU is the evil empire, they are 100% right in having Microsoft face the consequences of their anti-competitive actions.
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Call me crazy....
vbp1 Updated - 16th Jun 2009
But I thought doing busines in capialistic world ment doing everything to stifle the competition and being #1
and as long as it is with in the leagal confignemett we are good...

but that's just me

also how come we do not do this with any other manucatures?

take any other product like Cell phones for example many cellphone manufacturers create phones with propriatory chargers, headphones, data connectors. that require user to buy adaptors if they want to use something else (Applle is but one example)
how come we do not go after them?
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Enthusiast
Looks Confused 15th Jun 2009
After reading your post several times, and thinking about it most of the day, I've decided that I don't understand your answer to my question. The best I can interpret is that you enthusiastically support companies that are not motivated by "some eurotopian geopolitical agenda". Is that about right?

The rest of your post seemed to address some concerns you have with supporters of free and open source software, which I certainly wasn't asking about. And it was clear to me that Opera is a for-profit company from the outset, but thank you for making absolutely sure I understood that.

I appreciate your response, but I don't really understand how it addresses my original question. If you respond again, please take into account my other two responses to other parts of your post.

Thank you,

Hans

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You have it backwards
Wintel BSOD 16th Jun 2009
But of course that's not what the modern day software hippies want. They know best, and they want to stuff that granola down your throat whether you want it or not.

Sorry, but just I can't feel sorry for a monopolist corporation that controls 90%+ of the desktop market and thinks it can just shove whatever it wants to on everybody as if we're all willing sheep out there.

This is the only forum I've been to where those in control of the desktop monopoly try to claim "victim status". That whole premise is laughable at best.
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But people couldn't pick...OEMs and VARs would...
TechRepublic@... 16th Jun 2009
Microsoft's move is a stroke of genius. Remove IE and let people pick.

If only that were true. That won't happen. If they don't include any browser in Windows, then the OEMs and VARs will be the ones that made the decision and bundled a browser, so the user would have something. If you don't have a browser, then you don't have a way of getting another browser. Chicken, meet Egg.

Since the OEMs and VARs would not cripple their distributions this way, as this would generate hundreds of phone calls asking how they get to the Internet, they are going to pick something. They are all in business to make money, so the more time they need to "prepare" the machines and install competing browsers, or build "browser selection tools" the less profit margin they get, on an already slim profit margin.

No, they would pick the one most readily available and least likely to cause complaints, and the one with whom they have the OS contract: Microsoft.

Doing this would not provide the end-user with any real choice, as the OEMs and VARs would be managed by inertia and profit margins and would feel that the path of least resistance (and telephone support calls) is to install the browser made by the same company that makes the OS.

This is probably why the Opera people feels this doesn't go far enough. It gives Microsoft the illusion of decoupling, with the complete understanding that nothing would really change.
0 Votes
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RE: Windows enthusiasts launch 'Boycott Opera' campaign
makrejktt3601-24353674055577310839673264801767 11th Nov
vtibch,good post!

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