Windows PC vs. Xbox: Which gets the starring role in Microsoft's living room hub of the future?

By | March 14, 2011, 11:11am PDT

Summary: When Microsoft brass say “three screens and the cloud,” do they mean PC-TV-phone? Or Xbox-TV-phone? Or is it really four screens and the cloud we’re talking about (PC, Xbox, TV, phone) — with Windows (or Xbox) as the “alpha” screen?

Readers are continuing to send in more clues about Microsoft’s cross-platform media play. The leads, to this point, have focused on Xbox as the the hub in Microsoft’s “x number of screens and a cloud” entertainment strategy. But after reading a few recent “Windows Entertainment Client” job posts, I’m wondering if at least some of the Softies are trying to hold onto Chairman Bill Gates’ long-held vision that the PC will be the living room hub.

Last week, I blogged about Microsoft’s “Ventura Media Services” — which may or may not be the successor to the Microsoft Zune’s music/video service. This week, a reader sent in a link to another Microsoft job posting that doesn’t mention “Ventura” by name, but is also related to Microsoft’s three-screens plan on the consumer side of the house.

The new job posting (and a couple of other related ones I subsequently found) make reference to the Windows Entertainment Client team that is in the Interactive Entertainment Business (IEB) unit at the company. This team is building a synchronization platform “from ground up,” according to one of the postings.

Here’s more from one of the WEC job posts:

“We are the Windows Entertainment Client team and are chartered to revolutionize the way that people consume the Video, Music and TV content on their PC. Working closely with Xbox, Windows Phone, and Zune.net http://Zune.net>, we will light up the premium PC entertainment experience. Together we will build rich, immersive, social, and cloud-connected video and music experiences that will delight our users by giving them access to the entertainment they want, anywhere they want it to be….

“The WEC Platform team is building a next generation synchronization platform from ground up to enable accessing and sharing media content across PC(s), mobile device, Xbox and cloud. We are actively partnering with multiple Microsoft groups to light up these scenarios in seamless manner. We are seeking to hire a passionate developer with strong technical and development skills, customer focus, great team player attitude, ability to quickly ramp up on new technologies and drive for results. This is a unique opportunity to lead the entertainment industry by enabling access to user’s media on any devices.”

(The post mentions that preferred candidates will have knowledge of sync frameworks, including Live Mesh, the Microsoft Sync Framework and SQL Server concepts. Sounds like a job for David Treadwell and his merry band, to me….)

Another WEC job post seeks individuals desiring to help create a “new generation of ‘Epic Entertainment Experiences’ for Music and Video that span the PC, TV, and Mobile screens.”

Here’s more from that job post:

“Are you interested in helping create a new generation of “Epic Entertainment Experiences” for Music and Video that span the PC, TV, and Mobile screens? Do you have a passion for quality and providing a great customer experience? If so, the Windows Entertainment Client (WEC) team might be the place for you. By joining this team, you have the opportunity to help revolutionize the way people interact with their music, videos, games, and social networks through PC entertainment.

“The WEC team (part of the Interactive Entertainment and Business Unit within E&D) is responsible for delivering the current Zune PC software and the next generation PC software used to consume all the media on your PC as well as interact with Windows Phones, Kin Phones, Zune devices, Xbox360, Zune marketplace, and other key partners. We are just beginning the next product cycle planning and development so you still have time to get in on the ground floor. This is a great opportunity for someone looking to broaden their technical skills, make a big impact, grow their career, and have a lot of fun.”

Another Windows Entertainment Client post mentions the Zune PC software (codenamed “Dorado”). From that posting:

“If you like the experiences that the Zune PC Client delivers today, and would like to be instrumental in delivering the next generation of these, and feel you have the drive, smarts, and leadership skills to make this happen, this could be the role for you.”

Here’s a quick refresher on Microsoft names and codenames. Zune doesn’t refer only to the Zune media player devices. Zune also is Microsoft’s brand name for its music/video service, as well as the aforementioned client software that allows users to sync/update their Zune players and Windows Phone 7 devices. It’s unclear whether Microsoft intends to drop the Zune brand in the coming year.

Ventura is the codename for a set of services being developed by Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices (E&D) unit, of which IEB is a part. These services are focused on music and video discovery and consumption. They sound, from my sources, as though they include recommendations, ratings and comments. New/future versions of the Zune software and/or service may have something to do with Ventura (or may be replaced by it).

I’ve noted previously that Ventura also is part of “Orapa,” the platform that will bring Mediaroom features to Xbox Live users. The Ventura social-networking and music/video discovery and consumption pieces are also slated to be part of Orapa, from what I’ve heard. There’s said to be a Mediaroom for the Windows Media Center client in the works, as well, that’s codenamed “Monaco.”

The Windows Entertainment Client job postings leave me with lots of questions and few answers.

  • Is the Windows Entertainment Client team building something beyond just a new version of Windows Media Center?
  • Does the Zune client (or whatever “Dorado” is called, going forward) end up becoming the new Windows (Live) Media Player, as has been suggested by some?
  • Why is Microsoft — the company of many different synchronization technologies and frameworks — creating yet another sync platform from scratch?
  • Are these plans for Windows Entertainment Client still current, given the early 2011 reorg in the Entertainment and Devices unit (about which we know relatively little)?
  • When Microsoft brass say “three screens and the cloud,” do they mean PC-TV-phone? Or Xbox-TV-phone? Or is it really four screens and the cloud we’re talking about (PC, Xbox, TV, phone) — with Windows (or Xbox) as the “alpha” screen?

My biggest quetion: Is Microsoft positioning the Windows PC or Xbox console to be the “hub” of its consumer media play? Or are company execs doing the traditional Microsoft internal bake-off/internal compete thing, letting the “best” team win?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Windows PC vs. Xbox: Which gets the starring role in Microsoft's living room hub of the future?
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In this case only...
GoodThings2Life 14th Mar 2011
...keeping the hard-wired sync service built into Zune/Windows Media/Windows Live Media/Whatever software makes sense whereas the Windows Live Sync is cloud-based sync capabilities. I can certainly understand that. I just hope they continue to bake in WLS services to WP7 and Zune devices.
I really hope that we still will get "PCs" as TVboxes in the future, perhaps something that can work out of the box for the people that want the basic setup, but then add functionality for us tinkerers.
"Windows Live Media Player" is an awful name.
I'd take a PC top any day. I despise consoles.
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Couldn't agree with you more!
Bates_ 14th Mar 2011
@Cylon Centurion 0005 +1 on that. Go PC or go home!
@Cylon Centurion 0005 - I have both under our main TV.

The problem today is that both offer features that aren't available on the other.

On my Media Center PC, I can get live & recorded TV, music and photos and Netflix movies and can fall-back to browser-delivered streaming via Hulu, etc. if necessary. But I can't get Zune experience integrated into Media Center - for that I have to stand up and operate the MCPC using a mouse. THAT SUCKS!

On my XBox, I can watch content stored on my MCPC, watch Netflix, get some Zune integration and can stream movies etc. from Zune's online movie streaming service. I can get live TV with my XBox Media Center Extender feature, but it's a clunky, disjointed experience. But I cannot get Comcast OnDemand streamed content and cannot access online content such as Hulu (I know, it's coming but it's STILL NOT HERE!), YouTube, South Park Online, PDC online, MIX online, etc.

Microsoft REALLY need to tie these loose ends together. I should be able to watch ALL my content and preferred streams of content ANYWHERE on ANY (Microsoft-compatible) DEVICE.

Microsoft are INCHES away from having the most extensive, pervasive, consistent and integrated media experience available ANYWHERE. They just have to let go the internal politics and build the damn thing!
@bitcrazed

Yer damn right! Well said! And since Xbox is a platform branded for gamers, that means there's still a gap in the story for non-gamers. Why isn't there a Windows Media Center or Zune OS for embedded systems? Hopefully one of these new initiatives will finally cover that base.
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Don't name it Ventura
HollywoodDog 14th Mar 2011
Have you ever been to Ventura?

What happened to those native-American themed Pacific Northwesty names?
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Contributr
Ventura
Mary Jo Foley 14th Mar 2011
Ventura is just the codename, don't worry happy I have not been there.

They are using all kinds of city codenames these days. They've been going more outside the Pac Northwest lately for their choices (Rome, Monaco, Ventura, Orapa)... I've heard the reason they use city names is to avoid trademark issues... even with codenames, I guess (?) that's an issue...? MJ
@HollywoodDog
Hey, I think portions of Ventura are very nice.
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How about Joliet?
NotMSUser Updated - 14th Mar 2011
@HollywoodDog Jump back in your time machine... The Windows Joliet filesystem for CD's? Have you ever been to Joliet IL? Ugh!
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I don't see why this is PC vs. XBox360
betelgeuse68 Updated - 14th Mar 2011
I have an HDTV tuner card in my PC running Windows 7 Ultimate. Windows 7 comes with Windows Media Center and with it I record lots of air the air programming using an HDTV antenna. (Hint: You can do this with cable TV as well but with Netflix, Hulu et al, I cut the cord 2+ years ago)

In my living room I have an XBox360 and in case anyone here chiming in hasn't noticed, there's a "Window Media Center" application to the right of your avatar on the XBox360 dashboard. Which means I can watch everything I record on my PC by way of my 360 in the comfort of my living room sofa and HDTV. Furthermore, if I hit "LiveTV" on the 360 it works (despite the HDTV tuner card living in the PC). The PC buffers a couple of seconds and simply transmits "LiveTV" as an mpeg to the 360 which is just part of Microsoft designed as part of the overarching Window Media Center protocol. Not shocking really since TiVo et al are doing the same thing (when you pause live TV) minus transmitting to some other device.

In other words, this is a perfect synergistic scenario. I don't see why this has to be a question of PC vs. 360. Furthermore, it's par for the course for lay people to not readily see what Sun Microsystems used to say all the time a decade ago - "The network *is* the computer." While Sun may have been swallowed by Oracle, that principle is alive and well -- it's just that most people can't escape the myopia of a single device that's in front of them, i.e. "thinking outside the box" (in front of you) and tossing in another "box". Even if everything happens to housed in your own home and not in the cloud (someone elses "home" -- a company).

-M
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My thoughts exactly
LiquidLearner 14th Mar 2011
@betelgeuse68

I was wondering why there was a choice in the matter. The 360 is the perfect platform for the living room. Have your PC do whatever you wish in another room and just stream your media. Having a full PC in the living room is cumbersome to say the least.
@LiquidLearner

The problem is that consoles aren't updates as often, and they're not that flexible either. The Xbox will never be able to handle bitstreaming, and Microsoft does not seem to want to add mkv-support. On a PC both of those can be added with 3rd part programs.
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RE: MKV on XBOX 360
bobiroc 14th Mar 2011
@hvakrg

I am not totally positive but I thought there was a codec pack or something that helped make MKV files stream. I also think the latest divx plugin does that too. I haven't tried as I usually use MP4, WMV or some other compatible format.

I guess that is because I only stream recorded TV and what Videos I take myself which are in .Mov format and I convert using a free converter program. The only time I have seen MKV files really used is in movies ripped from DVD/Blu-Ray and technically pirated. I do not mean to insinuate that you are pirating as I am just stating an observation.
@betelgeuse68

Just like LiquidLearner stated My thoughts exactly.

The XBOX 360 and a Windows Media Center Capable PC are great compliments to one another. I find it very convenient to use the Media Extender functionality playing my stored media files over my network. The only thing I plan to add to the mix is a WHS when version 2011 is releases officially. Since I have never had a WHS I am not sure if that can totally take over for my media or not or just be a repository for access.

Some may argue a PC is better for gaming and others may say a console is. I find consoles more convenient but if you have the money for a gaming PC then there are advantages to that as well.
@bobiroc
Some may argue a PC is better for gaming and others may say a console is. I find consoles more convenient but if you have the money for a gaming PC then there are advantages to that as well.

Isn?t that the best part, different people like different things. I honestly prefer a controller to a keyboard. But there are those who run out and buy special keyboards. To each his/her own I guess. I am not as ******** a gamer as some people I know, but to me gaming is just a distraction, something I enjoy, but not something I am going to give up my life for. I ope Microsoft does something unique, if only to push others farther along. To be honest I only bought a Playstation 3 because, besides gaming, it also acts as a Blu-Ray player.
makes no difference, MS is slowly sinking into irrelevance. They won the desktop war and have lost all the others...
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Sure, whatever you say.
John Zern 14th Mar 2011
@panic man
the fact that you're posting here tells me a different story.
@panic man ... really? I'd say that the Exchange, SharePoint, SQL teams would have something to say about that. I presume you are referring only to the narrow definition of consumer electronics like... consoles? Oh hang on...
@panic man Wow! Are you ever out of touch.
@panic man

Same old story...different decade. Can't you MS haters come up with something new? I mean it is a lie anyway so at least you could do is be creative.
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@panic man
Game consoles, Server software, Office software, developement tools...
MJ, 3 screens in this case means 3 screens. XBox cannot function without the TV, therefore it is not a screen. The TV and the XBox should be seen as one. Therefore it is: PC, TV(XBox) and Smartphones; 3 screens thus.
@eInfinity
I was always under the impression they ment (Browser + Desktop (although maybe this includes TV(Xbox) now?) + Phone). I remember seeing this on the WP7 developer site somewhere.
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has been officially discontinued. Wise move on Microsoft's part. They should put all of their effort into their phone and xbox offerings. On the other hand, think of all the Zune's are going to end up in landfills, next to the Kin's, the play-for-sure players....
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appleTV's, ect.
John Zern 14th Mar 2011
@ShazAmerica
granted you probally live in a landfill from the sound of your posts, but I'll guess you have all the free furniture and electronics you'll ever need....
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XBOX as the starring role is an epic fail.
Johnny Vegas Updated - 14th Mar 2011
The xbox is not a screen and like most people in this country my house has multiple tv's. I will not being buying an xbox for each of my tv's nor should anyone suggest there's anything sane about that notion. It's ridiculous on the face of it. MS needs to get a centralized WMC connected to 5-10 tvs without the need for any xboxes whatsoever. They need to partner with the tv set makers to get whatever they need included or plugable like cablecards to ensure this happens. Requiring xbox to achieve the "tv" screen is the biggest most foreseeable epic fail imaginable. That would be STUPID!
@Johnny Vegas
What Microsoft needs to do is comp up with a repeater, like for example Apple?s little TV box. If it is priced right, then people will buy them. A simple one time charge of like $50, and no reoccurring fees.
@Rick_K

Are you referring to Apple TV? For $99 or is there something else you are thinking of? The Media Extender in the XBOX is already kind of a "repeater" streaming media files from a computer in another room just like Apple TV interacts with iTunes on another computer. The advantage to the XBOX is you can do pretty much all that Apple TV can do and play kick ass high def video games all on the same device. Oh but it won't link up with iTunes (that I know of). Sorry about that.
@Rick_K
Are you referring to Apple TV? For $99 or is there something else you are thinking of?

I was using the Apple TV as an example. I am sure that someone could make a similar device for less. Figure one central media server, with repeaters on each TV. This would be more cost effective than purchasing an xbox 360 for each TV.
@Rick_K

{i]"I was using the Apple TV as an example. I am sure that someone could make a similar device for less. Figure one central media server, with repeaters on each TV. This would be more cost effective than purchasing an xbox 360 for each TV"

That's true. I find that many modern TVs and Blu-Ray DVD Players are taking that role a bit. My 32" LCD TV in my bedroom is WiFi capable and can stream media from shared folders on a PC or a Mac. It even has a light browser built in and I can watch Youtube and other online videos. In My living room my XBox and Blu-Ray player both can do that. I just haven't seen any device do it as smoothly and easy as the XBox can. I am sure (and I have heard) Apple TV is easy to use and set up too but for about $130 a person can get a Blu-Ray player that can stream media through a network. The $150 Samsung Blu-Ray player I have can even stream MKV files natively but the UI is kind of cumbersome compared the media extender on my XBox so I prefer that.
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DLNA
dazzlingd 14th Mar 2011
@Johnny Vegas
Microsoft is part of DLNA. Anything that supports DLNA can pick up streams from a PC or Mac with the appropriate software.

I have streamed pictures, music and video from both my Macs and PCs to various devices around the house, including Xbox 360, PS3 and the Wii (although the Wii doesn't support DLNA and you have to kludge it via the Wii's browser and Flash... yuck...)

DLNA receivers are being put into a multitude of products including IP enabled TVs and Blu-Ray players. Or you can spend $99 and get a Sony or Roku box.

I have seen Roku's for less than $70.
I see them complimenting each other not fighting.
As long standing user of Windows Media Center in a dedicated HTPC, it pains me to come a personal conculsion that Microsoft's strategy will revolve around XBOX for TV services. My view is that Microsoft just don't make much in the way of revenue from WMC alone. In my WMC I record free over-the-air broadcasts and play them back on PC, XBOX & WP7. Very little revenue for MS there.

It is, much like Apple with their TV/iTunes offering, key to the strategy to get people to pay for content. By explicitly not offering recording features and moving to IPTV based services, Microsoft will be able to generate revenue from the service.

Even with advances in things like Embedded Standard that can allow "PCs" to behave more like Set-top boxes, I just don't see Microsoft offering this. For much the same reason that we won't see a Blu-ray drive in a future XBOX as Microsoft will claim that people want digital delivery, so too will they advocate that broadcast TV is old-hat and that subscription-based IPTV is the future.

On that basis, I just don't (regrettably) see a future for WMC beyond that of being modified to the Metro-like UI offered up in Windows 8 PCs/Slates.
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One screen WON'T be the Zune.
Userama 14th Mar 2011
R.I.P. Zune
Died 3/14/11
I think you're right Mary-Jo,--it will be 4 screens and the cloud, five when Surface is ready for the home.
Are job postings really pre-pre-alpha marketing? Microsoft has a lot of talented people so why not promote from inside, and, in this case, aren't they doing something no other company has done, so wouldn't they already know who out there has the chops for the job?

Aren't these posts written as though they are looking for one person for each posting? Are they really but a handful of people away from getting the living room?

You ask a much better question, though. My guess is neither. It will have a separate branding and will have compatibility with the pc and XBox. Ultimately, I think their marketing people will discover that the pc concept is too tied to C prompts and administration and the XBox is too affiliated with gaming, i.e., the thing to do when not watching tv. (The way broadcast numbers are sinking, tv is more the thing to do when not gaming.) They'll discover this, whether they accept it or consider it a challenge is another matter.

But let's say they choose one or the other. To me it makes more sense to expand the capabilities of the XBox, which is already accepted as an adjunct to the television. Though, my read of Microsoft politics, and let's say Windows 8 being the ARM tablet os is one more brick in the wall, suggests the pc will prevail in any divisiono a divisiono rumble.
i hope they are not developing more products and letting them fight internally. If they would just centralize and focus around one service they would be much better off. one service (Zune) with three UIs [mouse/keyboard (traditional windows), TV remote/xbox controller/Kinect (xbox dashboard), touch (metro)] depending on the type of device (PC, TV, tablet/phone) and input you were using. These UIs would use the same interface themes (like hubs found in Windows Phone as an example). The same style of iconography (metro). please converge!!! don't make more infighting! how many 1st party media players do we need? we have 3! do we need 5?
The Xbox and TV are one and the same. They mean PC/Xbox -TV/Phone.
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What we need is a centralized media server (including cable/satellite, BD/DVD, video player, music, etc. A single point serving all TVs (and stereos) like dumb terminals.

That way, a single device can provide media streaming to all devices in the house (wired or wireless). Making it compatible with DTV &/or Dish and you have a single wire to the antenna and a DVR that can be access by multiple rooms (better than DTVs multi-room). Also, no need to pay more for extra rooms.
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three screens and a cloud
sanshinron 15th Mar 2011
Can't believe you just counted xbox and tv separately... What's so hard to understand in "Three SCREENS and a cloud"? 1 - PC monitor - main screen to get your work done (laptop or desktop). 2 - TV screen for entertainment (doesn't matter if it's connected to xbox or pc, it's still one screen). 3 - mobile devices (tablets and phones) - always connected, always on and personal.
If I were MS, I would position both the XBOX and PC to be the media center of a given room. If if you have more of a play or activity room, XBOX would be your choice. If you are wanting movies, internet browsing, video editingj, then a PC would be your choice.

My question is, how long until MS lets XBOX games run on a PC? Then you would be able to have a lot more options.
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Won't be MS
MC_z Updated - 15th Mar 2011
Apple may or may not own the living room but if they don't, MS won't be the one. Only hardcorps (ZDnet obliterated the proper spelling) tweakers want a PC running the house. Everybody else wants a smooth, integrated and invisible experience. It's a computer to be sure, but MS has never been able to hide Windows. With MS, it's a computer-centric experience. The winner will be thinking more about the average end-user.
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RE: Windows PC vs. Xbox: Which gets the starring role in Microsoft's living room hub of the future?
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