BibleTech 2009; reaching eternity through technology
Summary: I love getting together with a bunch of tech geeks and talking tech and I also enjoy getting together with a bunch of brothers in Christ to talk about the Word. Logos Bible Software brings these two worlds together for a conference in the Seattle area and I had the pleasure of participating in BibleTech:2009 on Friday and Saturday. This was the second year of the event and it was encouraging to hear it grew from 77 to 119 attendees. My main interest was in how mobile computing can be used to study and spread the Good News and I was encouraged to see there were three sessions devoted to mobile, with others related and including aspects for the mobile user since mobile tech is becoming more and more a part of our daily lives.
I love getting together with a bunch of tech geeks and talking tech and I also enjoy getting together with a bunch of brothers in Christ to talk about the Word. Logos Bible Software brings these two worlds together for a conference in the Seattle area and I had the pleasure of participating in BibleTech:2009 on Friday and Saturday. This was the second year of the event and it was encouraging to hear it grew from 77 to 119 attendees. My main interest was in how mobile computing can be used to study and spread the Good News and I was encouraged to see there were three sessions devoted to mobile, with others related and including aspects for the mobile user since mobile tech is becoming more and more a part of our daily lives.
I saw one other T-Mobile G1 and a couple of Nokia devices, but the large majority of people had iPhones. In one session they asked how many people were on Facebook and it looked like 90% of the people raised their hands. I did see a couple of netbooks, an OQO, several Windows laptops, and several Macs (about the same number as Windows units). The group was definitely a techy crowd and not just people who had a passing interest in tech.
With the number of attendees at the conference, it was very nice to be able to start off with an intro from Bob Pritchett, president and CEO of Logos Bible Software followed by personal introductions from every person in attendance. The event then kicked off with the hourly sessions with a format of two going on in two different rooms so you had to make a choice about which ones to attend. This was a bit difficult since there were so many great topics, but each presentation was recorded so we will be able to download and listen to each one in a week or so when they are posted on the BibleTech:2009 conference page. I have a few thoughts and some coverage of the sessions I attended below. You can check out the full list of speakers and their abstracts.
Session 1, Day 1: SMS Texting for Churches, by Craig Rairdin from Laridian. I attended this one because Laridian develops my favorite Windows Mobile Bible program, PocketBible, and my church is pretty high tech so I thought this service would be interesting to consider. Craig launched Church Texting Manager as a service to help churches get messages out quickly and easily. His presentation was interactive with the audience signing up for one of his "groups" and then testing out the service. He talked about how email is slow, relatively stable and easy, but does require the person to check to find messages. Telephone calls are another way to get messages out, but many times the message goes to a voicemail and may never get to the person or get to the person too late. I know if people call my home number and leave a message I will rarely get it so I always tell people to call my cell or text me. Text messaging is quick, reliable (sms protocol supports delivery confirmation), and easy.
Craig went into the technical details of the system behind text messaging that is managed by the carriers and it is a fairly complex system with lots of backend hoops to jump through. You can do much of what Craig's new service provides, but it requires lots of time and coordination along with technical expertise. There are multiple carriers to deal with, billing disputes, testing limitations, etc. Their service is available for $25/month for up to 3 groups and 300 messages a month.
There are some very cool functions that are supported too, including viewing the messages in a microblog, using text messages for polling, and the ability to send out announcement only messages. For instance you could have a bulletin board outside your church with a number that people could text and then get sent back directions, times, and more. Craig conducted a poll during the session regarding our favorite operating system and I voted quite a few times to bump up the Android OS. He then showed how you can filter votes by number so multiple votes by the same person only count once.
The service looks like a great way to send out reminders, updates when meetings change, prayer requests, and other types of timely messages.
Session 2, Day 1: How the Ancient Rabbis Invented Web 2.0 Before Their Time, by Dr Ellen Frankel. Dr. Frankel is the CEO and Editor-in-Chief of The Jewish Publication Society and gave a very informative presentation that made me feel like a child learning a new language. I have very little knowledge about the Jewish faith and was extremely impressed by the vast amount of information and advanced study that she covered in her presentation. She spent some time talking about the history of the Jews and how culture changed from oral to written over time and how the written words became extremely complex and well organized. The Tagged Tanakh project they are working on was extremely impressive and shows how digital technology enables her team to collaborate several different references into a single volume that is highly interactive.
Session 3, Day 1: Dramatizer by Mr. Jim Albright. Jim's presentation centered around a solution he has created to turn the written Scripture into scripts that people around the world can use to create audio version and dramatizations of the Bible. He stated that 60% of the world cannot or do not read and that by assisting missionaries with a way to parse the Bible down into character roles they can help these people to create audio versions in native languages around the world that can be listened to by local regions.
He gave a demonstration and showed how Dramatizer is about 95% effective at automatically marking the Word. There are then some steps that the user takes to finish up the final pieces. Dramatizer is available for free and could even be helpful here in the US for creating scripts to act out the Bible in youth groups or churches.
Session 4, Day 1: The Wild World of User Submitted Content by Bob Christenson. Two of the speakers in the program are podcasters that I listen to regularly and this first speaker records the Geeks & God podcast that focuses on tools for the church. His latest podcast is title Facebook for Churches and was covered in his presentation. My church is on Facebook and our pastor uses it daily to post devotions and thoughts.
Bob stated some of the Facebook stats that are publicly available, including that there are 175 million active users, 3 billion minutes a day are spent on Facebook, and 850 million photos are added each month. He highly encourage churches to get a presence on Facebook and share it with the congregation and the world.
Bob talked about opening up church websites to user submitted content and open two-way dialogue with trust being the major roadblock to such an open system. He talked about the benefits (gives users ownership, users feel trusted, richer content on the site, and forms a community rather than a corporate image) and different methods of moderating a site. While it seems quite risky to fully open up a site, he recommended that churches start with a free and open system and then throttle things down if it gets out of hand. Bob said things may not be as bad as we might think and that churches should trust the users. The talk was definitely one for pastors and churches to think about and encourages two way communication and open dialogue.
Session 5, Day 1: Web-Empower Your Church by Mark Stephenson. Mark was an engineer who then felt a calling to give up that life and focus on ways to minister to churches by empowering them to make their presence known on the Internet. He is the director of the Web-Empowered Church and provides churches with free and powerful tools to help churches reach the world. He ran through some of the tools they provide and modules (sermon management, devotions and journaling, media communication, and many more) that any church of any size can use and implement to have a valuable presence on the Internet.
I was very impressed with the tools and functionality they provide for free and wish I would have used these back when I ran the church website a few years back. I also like how their software provides auto linking to any Bible verse that appears on the site to the EBible so you can quickly jump to Scripture while browsing the site.
They also provide church hosting services so it truly is a one stop shopping place for churches looking to have a presence on the Internet.
Session 6, Day 1: Software Tool for Bible Translation, by Frank Böegelsack. Frank is a mechanical engineer who created his own tool as he tried to develop a deeper understanding of Scripture through study of the Greek and Hebrew translations. He went from notes on paper, to Excel spreadsheets and then into a database application that he called BibleStudy 2006. He is now working on finalizing BibleStudy2009 with a scheduled launch date of July 2009. This is a free tool that you can use to help with your personal Bible study.
The conference then held a dinner followed by Birds of a Feather open discussions. Unfortunately, I already had other commitments and was unable to make it to the BOF sessions.
Check out some thoughts on Day 2 »
Session 1, Day 2: Technology is Not Neutral: How Bible Technology Shapes Our Faith by John Dyer. I was intrigued by John's title and think he made some excellent points that definitely encouraged you to pause and think more about the use of technology. He asked if Google was making us dumber because we no longer have to retain lots of information in our hands, but can rely on quick searches to find what we need. He conducted a poll to see how many people know actual phone numbers and only a couple knew more than 10 numbers because we have come to rely on our phones storing the names and numbers for us. I remember as a kid we used to know all of our family's numbers and then numbers of the school, local pizza place, etc.
John shared his view that technology is not necessarily good, bad or neutral, but it is the way we use technology that effects what it is. For example, the automobile could be thought of as bad because it put blacksmiths out of work, kills people in accidents, and separates us farther apart from friends and family. Then again, it can be good because the industry employs car builders and road builders, it can be used to take people to hospitals and respond to emergencies, and can be used to delivery goods to people.
John then went on to talk about the medium and how to apply McLuhan's Four Laws of Media.
The history of Bible technology was then covered, that included moving from oral to written to printed and finally to digital stages over time. The oral version was changed to written as people started to spread out around the globe and offered a more consistent approach, but was still costly and thus community shared. The printing press revolutionized technology and allowed people to mass produce the Bible and let everyone access the truth. It also created a bit of individualism as people retreated into groups, depending on how the Bible was interpreted. Today we have the digital Bible that uses photos, video, and the computer to spread the Word.
The issue today is trying to stay focused on the Bible and not getting overwhelmed by the vast amount of information that is out there and easily available. The Bible can get last as just another piece of information rather than the sacred Word of God and we need to try to get back some of what we lost. John encouraged people to continue to read Scripture aloud and try memorizing large chunks of the Bible and start to use our brains again without relying too much of technology. Technology can be an enabler, but we need to make sure it doesn't overwhelm us and keep us from "knowing" the Word.
This talk really gave me lots to think about and I agree that we need to start using our brains more and avoid turning ourselves into just Google search tools.
Session 2, Day 2: The Study Bible Challenge for Mobile Devices, by Drew Haninger. The other mobile Bible client I use on just about every device is OliveTree because they have versions for the iPhone, Windows Mobile, BlackBerry, Symbian, and Palm with an Android client under development. You can access your library wirelessly and once you purchase a Bible translation or other document you can use access it on multiple platforms.
Drew talked about some of the challenges for developing software for all of these mobile devices, including the different operating systems, screen sizes, development environments, navigation and GUI controls, and more. It is not an easy task to have software on so many different platforms and there will not be a single one for many years, if ever. He stated that the iPhone has set the standard to make getting software onto devices much easier for end users and the iPhone application does have great performance and functionality.
Session 3, Day 2: Creating Dynamic Peer Learning Communities by Lance Ford. Lance is the co-founder of God's Mac podcast and read about his Digital Disciples project a few months ago. After hearing Gabe talk about his life and some personal challenges I can totally relate to him and many of his personal challenges (ministries isolate him, introvert personality, etc.).
Gabe stated that becoming a disciple does not mean just becoming a Christian, but it means developing your spiritual maturity and knowledge of the Word and be willing to give it all up to serve the Lord. He also mentioned that there is power in going out to reach others in twos so don't feel like you should do it all alone.
His presentation was given on a Mac that was controlled via his iPhone and many slides were presented that asked some good questions and gave some valuable advice on how to become a disciple of the Lord. He said the door is wide open for us to help out and we are each given a platform and resources. Technology is not unique, can lead us to believe it is all about us, can be confusing for the church and youth, is interesting to the world, and is what we make it and not what makes us.
The current Digital Disciples ministry is up and running near Columbus, Ohio and consists of people attending a 60-90 minute session(s) on technology and then moving onto a time of Bible study and fellowship once a month. I think in the area I live (Puget Sound, Washington) there could be a rather large organized gathering with all of the tech companies present in this area and am praying about such a group.
Session 5, Day 2: Mobile Technology and Connecting Communities, by Antoine RJ Wright. This was the second mobile focused topic of the conference and was given by a guy that I have known for a couple of years through his work on the Mobile Ministry Magazine (MMM). Antoine was truly mobile as he gave his presentation on a Nokia N95 connected to a projector. He also started off by handing out cards with QR codes on them that could be scanned with just about any mobile phone with a camera. I scanned it with my T-Mobile G1 after finding two QR code reading applications on the Android Market. The codes contained his contact info and website URL.
Antoine talked about how you can use the Bible on a mobile phone as a way to initiate a conversation and share the Word. He stated that the positive implications of mobile technology are accessibility, accountability, and approachability. Negative implications include invasion of personal space, active dissonance, and escapism.
Session 6, Day 2: Sermon Preparation in a Digital World, by Jim Coakley. The last session I was able to attend (I had other required obligations) was most valuable for pastors who prepare sermons, but I wanted to hear about it since I do study the Bible and thought some of the information could be helpful for personal study as well.
Jim talked about how the way pastors study and prepare for sermons has evolved over the years with the movement from paper to digital medium. He stated that 85% of what current students learn comes from a computer or TV screen and new resources and databases are primarily only available in digital form. The digital world does save on space, improve the search experience, save time by reducing time to search and flip a page, and are available just about everywhere while being very portable.
However, it is also tougher to get the big picture at times with all of the information and tools helping you find details. He stated that we need to internalize via mediation, communicate via devotionals, and communicate via teaching and make sure to not get overwhelmed with so many details.
There was one more mobile-focused presentation by Stephen Johnson from Olive Tree Bible Software titled, "Rolling with the Revolution: Developing Mobile Bible Software", but I was unable to stay and listen to it so I will definitely be looking for it online when the recording is posted.
Wrap up: Like most conferences some of the most valuable and interesting conversations take place during breaks and meals. I had the pleasure of meeting Mark Salazar from HearLife.com and talked with him about his upcoming products, called SoulBytes. SoulBytes are downloadable audio tracks that are created and organized into topic categories, similar to something like a devotional. Scriptures paraphrased in today's language are read by a professional speaker (the quality is very good) with modern music playing in the background. These SoulBytes could serve as a resource for you when you are looking for answers to life's difficult questions (What is salvation? What does God say about money? How do I deal with a death in the family?) and need to know where in the Bible to find the answers. You could start with a SoulByte and then look up the verses in your Bible for further, more detailed study.
BibleTech:2009 was a valuable and interesting conference and I look forward to attending again in 2010. The Lord may even put it in my heart to offer to give a presentation on mobile technology and the Bible next year.
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Talkback
It's really too bad
Of course, the bible lovers among us may insist that the world is flat or 10,000 years old.
Anyway, historically we can see the Church and people of "faith" denying science.
If people have too much faith today, I worry if science will get proper recognition.
I know as a group it is fun to get together and socially appealing for everyone to have the same belief. Still, I doubt "belief" is going to see us through the challenges facing humanity.
Yes, I know "your" belief is correct, but do you know how many people are saying that?
What went into the bible was decided by a group of people long after the fact. It really has nothing to do with whatever was really said at the purported time of occurrence.
If GOD really did divinely inspire that Council, why doesn't GOD divinely inspire us to know the truth about climate change.
All's we have is difficult to test theories and lots of fighting over the correctness of them.
You choose the safety of belief. I'll choose the uncomfortableness of science.
Is the Earth really flat after all?
I'm calling flamebait...
God gave mankind dominion over the earth back in Genesis. He gave us the ability to exercise our free will, along with the responsibility that comes along with it.
The world isn't flat; as a matter of fact the Bible references the earth being round in the Old Testament: http://creationwiki.org/Bible_says_the_earth_is_round.
Biblical Creationists are divided as to whether the Bible refers to six 24-hour periods or six units of time, possibly spanning millions or billions of years. How, scientifically speaking, is the earth dated at being billions of years old? The most common methods I'm aware of are radioactive dating and the distance away from stars that we see in our sky, where the light would take millions or billions of years to reach us. While it's admittedly speculation, isn't it possible that God could have created light-in-transit? As for radioactive dating, if a candle burns at 1"/hour, how tall was it originally? It's missing critical data, like how long the candle was burning and how tall it is at present. Radioactivity is useful when there is a known initial quantity and a regular rate of decay. Of course, every inference made using known facts in the present hinges on the fact that all the measurements made today were also true in the past. How do we know that the planet is truly warming, and even if it is, how do we know that it's not a normal atmospheric cycle? There's simply enough data to tell, although I will agree that pollution probably isn't doing a whole lot of positive work.
The Bible was decided upon after the fact? really? I'll agree that it was *CANONIZED* many years afterwards, as in it was determined what books were going to be included and how they'd be arranged, but the actual contents including Paul's letters had been written on and determined by around 80AD. Copies had been widely circulated throughout the early church and thus rewriting it without everyone revolting would be quite difficult.
The Bible says that we are accountable to God for the decisions that we make and the actions that we take. It says that our actions have consequences. So somehow all of that is the "safety of belief" whereas "be responsible because it's a good idea, but ultimately you'll only be answering to other people" is the "uncomfortableness of science"? What do you expect the Bible to say? "In 2009, mix these chemicals to create a magic formula that will clean up your mess and provide a new source of fuel for all mankind"? What exactly would you suggest that the Bible say about that?
...not that this had anything to do with the article. For real, is respect for peoples' beliefs too much to ask for?
Joey
I'm not
anyone's belief in susperstition should be subject to critical thinking in the same way politics, sports team choice etc.
I have no reason to respect your belief. You can have any belief you like but if my belief is that you are a susperstitous person and i say so then "respect my belief"
I doubt the truth of your assertion.
When you have a source other than the Bible that says this, get back to me. For now, you've got a collection of legends and nothing more. That's right, no more than the Muslims, Hundus, Mormans, Jews. No more than the Egyptians had, the Aztecs had, the Norse had, the Greeks had, the Romans had.
Every human who ever believed, believed he had true knowledge of God's will. Until you explain why you and your God are different, you aren't.
Flame? No. If you throw your beliefs out in a public forum and expect respect for the absurd, demonstrate that you are correct.
Re: typical response yet expected....
second there is no global warming,
and lastly God will bring the earth to an end
NOT man.
There is one true faith and that is through
Jesus, yet people deny that fact so they will
find out when they leave this earth.
Man is not in control, the world is a mess and
it is not going to get any better. Do in part
of 'man' and his sinful nature and the fact
people deny the truth even tho they know
deep inside they are being called.
In today's modern age people bash Christians,
mock them and call them hate mongers and so
on. The fact is God did not create a 'man to
love another man' not a woman to love another
woman' it is all perverted sinful behaviour
that man 'like Obama' tries to cram down
peoples throats.
Everyone will give an account of their life,
whether they believe or not, you are going to
either A. Heaven (being saved) B. Hell for an
eternity and this entire myth of saying everyone
will have to accept homosexuality, the earth is
100 Billion years old and some atheist
scientist who have no clue other than some
bogus carbon dating and some bogus 'farce' of
global warming...
God will end this world, on HIS time and it
will happen just like the current events of
this age are told in the Bible...
Great!
There is you who will be saved for believing and me who will Burn in Hell.
I hearby declare that it's ok to for God to burn me in hell for Eternity, and that I will do whatever I can not to destroy the Earth which I believe we people, in fact, can do.
Hell, I'd sell my soul to the Devil for Global Warming to be a farce. I just see it as my responsibility to my child's generation. My soul be damned, I chose to create my child and have the responsibility to not poison his air and water.
I guess you won't be seeing me in heaven. I know you are not shedding any tears. Such is my just reward for doubting.
Perhaps my saving grace will be that my new high-def Sony tv is a low-power version and so maybe God will forgive me. That is not why I got it though. I got it to save power even though the version which was better to watch fast paced action was less expensive.
You are deluded unless your post was sarcasm
People with these beliefs against the evidence should be locked up with the others that believe there are fairies.
It all superstition, get a life.
I find it hard to believe . . .
Man, you need to read the Bible, the whole Bible, with your eyes open. Letting your pastor cherry-pick passages and insert meaning into the meaningless just isn't a valid way to knowledge.
Does anybody find this offensive? I do.
Why? is superstition above criticism?
Nothing/no-one should be above criticism.
Sorry Dietrich.
Not above criticism
The question is, why would you and others go out of your way to post your attacks on this thread? I find it to be very telling.
You are clearly 'gods unto yourselves' and that never ends well for anyone.
Why push your faith in this forum?
I find it telling that you can't treat others' disbelief with respect.
Forgive me!
Ok, I apologize. I sincerely apologize.
"How do we know that the planet is truly warming, and even if it is, how do we know that it's not a normal atmospheric cycle?"
You have a valid point. I just wish people spent more time studing the studies and hypothesis so they can explain it to me!
Perhaps half or more of the people (maybe all) at BibleTech are more intelligent than I and I just wish that asset was going toward figuring out what, if anything, we need to do here and now.
I am literally praying for guidance but unfortunately fear for the world's state in my child's time that the Bible doesn't tell us what we need to know.
If the Bible does say the world is round, why did they lock up Copernicus for saying the same.
Maybe we do need to study the bible more! Maybe BibleTech is spoton and we need more of them.
Forgive me for my doubt and inability to express it in a more sociable manner. I do doubt the bible though and resent people saying my soul will burn in hell for using a condom. If I have freewill, then why can't I take practical measure to avoid catastrophic consequences.
That is my point. In the name of religion people will say ridiculous things. Same as in the name of profit or politics. I can't just "believe". I have to think about whether something is true or not, and what motivations went into someone saying something like that.
If nothing else, a unique post
If nothing else, I sincerely appreciate your attitude. The vast majority of talkback posts are just pointless arguments with no real purpose. I'm pretty sure that this is one of the first times that I have read a post on ZDNet of someone who has actually LISTENED to a response. Even if we disagree on everything else, I have tremendous respect for you in that regard.
First off, people are people. Human nature hasn't changed. I absolutely agree that people will say ridiculous things in the name of religion. I'll admit that one of the hardest things that I have to deal with when it comes to being a Christian is the fact that other Christians have done things that have helped no one but themselves in the name of God. Throughout the life of Jesus, you'll see that He never separated loving God from loving others. Jesus' own life is documented with Him helping the sick, the lame, the outcasts, and the tax collectors. Nothing was below Him; the last miracle He performed before the resurrection was to heal the ear of one of the men who came to arrest Him as He rebuked His follower who had cut it off. The people that He rebuked the most were the religious leaders of the day; they were the ones that He said were the least likely to enter the Kingdom of God. This is the example set to Christians, and I am sorry for those who "use" God as a reason to justify the things that they do that are in direct opposition to what we're actually supposed to do. I'd say that Copernicus was locked up for this reason, and I'd wager that had Jesus been around during the time of Copernicus, the religious leaders in charge would have been equally rebuked, and for the same reason. IMO, the righteous indignation that Jesus had when He tossed the temple tables would have been equally present in the case of the church pushing their agenda by incarcerating Copernicus.
I do everything I can to follow Christ's example, but even I admittedly come short. I am sorry for my shortcomings. You said that you were searching, and I am glad that you've got an open mind about it. I hope that your search will be limited to what God says about God, rather than how people portray Him to be. A pastor-friend of mine sums it up by saying "if you don't read the Bible, you'll write your own", and I'll wholeheartedly agree that there are far too many people calling themselves a Christian while doing the latter.
I don't pretend to know everything about God. What I do know though is the fact that He isn't fazed by doubt. Mary doubted. Nicodemus doubted. Peter doubted. Thomas doubted. Zechariah doubted. And that's just off the top of my head. But there's a difference between saying "I want to be sure, so God please help me to see", and "I don't think you're real. Give me lots of money and then *maybe* I'll believe". Both are exaggerated of course, but my point is that there is a difference between struggling with doubt and scoffing God in arrogance.
I also believe that God very commonly works through processes. He is more likely to give me opportunities to be loving than He is to "zap" me with love. He is more likely to use the time when I've got $0.18 in my checking account to teach me to be more responsible with my money than He is to provide me with a winning lottery ticket. He is more likely to stick me behind some grandma driving at about 8 MPH when I'm in a hurry than He is to magically zap me with patience. I'm not saying that God never makes instantaneous changes in one's life (indeed, I don't have the slightest clue what goes on in God's mind), but more often than not in my own life, I've been broke, stuck behind grandma on my way to work, and been placed in situations where I have to love someone when it doesn't come at all naturally to me.
I don't think that God is going to magically show everyone how to solve the energy and atmospheric crises, but I'm sure that there is a process that we as a society can and should start in order to change the amount of pollutants entering our atmosphere. The problem is that our society has become more and more based on entitlement and instant gratification, so we're waiting for the dramatic fix (which P.S. no one wants to pay for) instead of trying to slow down the status quo in the meantime.
alright, it's getting crazy late and this post will get even less coherent if I keep going.
Joey
Here's the problem..
Here's my problem with you're initial post, and in some respects with
your clarification. You're making a heck of a lot of assumptions:
1. The people at the conference were all flat young-earthers.
2. The people at the conference all thought the Bible teaches science.
3. Everyone who is a Christian is condemning your soul to hell.
4. The people at the conference are either unconcerned with, or not
doing anything about, the current crisis facing humanity that climate
change poses.
Everyone one of these assumptions was wrong. So from my vantage
point is looked like you were posting something wonderfully cathartic
for yourself, but didn't deal with the actual blog entry and didn't really
encourage anything but returned flame-bait. You did a noble thing in
trying to clarify and respect folks who come from a difference "place"
than you though - I do wish you'd spend some time looking at the
variety of ways people who call themselves Christians deal with the
Bible and how that impacts their actions - even on the very things
you're worried about. At the same time, if all you see are Christians
on the TV or radio yelling at everyone but themselves I understand
why you'd think we were more monolithic. I can only apologize for
that - Christians in this country have a lot of sins to repent.
As for the assumptions I perceived in your post let me try to enter into
some conversation here, as I was at the conference:
1. There were probably some young-earthers at the conference. I
didn't meet them, but there are always a few (flat earthers are a rarer
breed than you might think). I actually met with people, however, who
are helping to develop some of this software who, like me, cringe
when they here other Christians making claims like that. I met them
because we were talking about the nature of the Bible and the Hebrew
of a particular passage though - I didn't meet young-earthers
because they weren't gathered to tout their own perceived superiority
- nor did this appear to be a crowd that would typically do that.
2. I already mentioned a conversation with someone who knows this
just isn't true - and there were more people like this here than you
think. Look, Genesis 1 sets up a cosmology where the earth is flat
(and "round" is not "spherical"), and there is actually a bowl arching
over it's surface to keep the waters of chaos from returning the earth
to an inhabitable state. The sun, moon, and stars are literally hung on
the bowl. Later on in Genesis we find that the earth is standing on
pillars, and there are flood-gates in the sky which can allow chaos to
flow back in. This obviously isn't science. And why would it be? It's a
story that pre-dates the scientific method and is describes
phenomena based on the perception of what these things looked like
from the ground. This is where I diverge from my athiest friends who
say, "Scientific fact equals truth." This just isn't the case. Scientific
facts are true (according to the data we have), but I can also say that
the Bible is true even if it's presenting scientific data. Genesis one is a
great example (and speaks to your global warming concerns).
Basically, Genesis 1 sets up creation in two movements. In days 1-3
the realms of habitation are separated. In days 4-6 the inhabitants of
those realms are created. Genesis one basically says, "God made
everything to have a place, and set everything in it's place." When the
inhabitants blur boundaries, bad things can happen (pollution,
disease, famine, imbalance of resources, habitat destruction, etc).
And, so I can point out Genesis 1 as being true. I love science
(particularly astronomy) - that doesn't conflict with my faith at all.
3. Well, first this article mentioned this not at all. So I'm going to ask,
"Do you have some baggage with actual Christians that led you to
bring this into the conversation?" If so, I apologize. It is certainly true
that judgement is part of the Christian faith - but the (particularly
fundamentalist/evangelical) sin of extrapolating that Christians
somehow get to pronounces condemnation on individual souls is one
that Jesus is quite pissed with. No, Christians will say, "Well we're just
warning them..." It's a convenient lie, but it's a lie. A Christian's job is
to point to life, not necessarily warn against judgement. In the New
Testament the strongest words of judgement were directed to
religious folks who "had it all together," a point that Christians tend to
ignore. Actually the NT letter of 1 Corinthians specifically says that
we have no business judging anyone outside the Church (and
judgement inside the church is, at the same time, redemptive
discipline not "you're going to hell fire-boy!").
4. Just not true. I'm trying to reduce my carbon foot-print, for one
(though Flying to Seattle is a bad way to do that, I have to admit).
Beyond the conference, there is a rather large movement in
Evangelicalism (catching up with other traditions) that is deeply
concerned not only with the environment, but social-justice, and they
do these things because they take the words of Jesus seriously.
Again, they typically don't make the TV because people being nice to
each other doesn't sell advertising for the local stations - but quick
google searches will find them pretty easily. You might be surprised
to find more kindred minds and hearts among Christians than you
think exist.
Anyway, thanks for your reply. I do hope you didn't perceive this as an
attack back. Text sucks to convey emotive force - I tried to keep my
language clear, if I failed I beg your forgiveness.
God's job!
You'll see it_wk posting frequently about climate change be bogus because GOD will end the earth and not man.
Maybe climate change is bogus, but the only reason we can reject it is because it is bogus and not because of something it says in the bible about a second coming and apocalypse or whatever.
What you don't understand is a vocal part of your community denying any possibility of man changing and destroying the climate because, well that's GOD job.
RE: BibleTech 2009; reaching eternity through technology
BTW, my favorite Bible software is Online Bible (free from http://www.onlinebible.net).
RE: BibleTech 2009; reaching eternity through technology
It's interesting how the comment trolls want to incite riots by making petty comments about minor points of belief, while the conference they belittle was so far over their heads with respect to technical analysis of ancient texts, using advanced statistical and database methods to analyze and derive useful information from a particular knowledge domain, and the application of technology within a community.
Religion has been at the forefront of all the major advances in publishing, and even the simplest Bible software exceeds the capabilities of the most advanced general-purpose ebook reader software when it comes to reading and analyzing a structured text like the Bible. It's great to be able to get together once a year to talk about what we all do.
Craig Rairdin
President
Laridian, Inc.
and ChurchTextingManager.com
More people have died from religion than most anything else
Moses, killed a slave owner and fled into the desert, no wonder God told him "thou shall not kill". Slavory is ok in the bible, and capitol punishment (killing someone) is ok if its a slave owner that moses sees striking a slave. !!
Isaiah 40:22
Says the world is circular, (not round), a plate is circular but its also FLAT !!!
Isaiah 40:28
"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding."
END OF THE EARTH,, !!! how many "ends" are there on a round earth ?? Hmmm I wonder.
Saying global warming or carbon dating is wrong, and that God will save us all, its just a stupid copout, its so easy to put the responsibility onto someone else, they are going to save us !!!.
Where was your GOD when millions of Jews were taking their special showers in Germany ??
Here's an idea, take responsibility for your own actions, make decisions on your own using your own morals, and stop using God as your excuse to do what you like..
But there are (most) people in the world who think your totally wrong and doing more damage than good.
Thinking its ok to pollute and destroy the environment because in the God will save us, does not make me sleep well at night.
Anyway, ive had my rant,
The true miricle on earth is our own existance, and the earth we have and live in, make the best of it when you can. (ie alive).
Flamebait, round 2
First the passage in Isaiah you cite - along with many other biblical references, do use the terminology "To the ends of the earth". So do hundreds of modern day examples; do a quick Google search for the term. Depending on how one interprets it, that verse could be referring to God not getting weary until the end of time, or it could be a figure of speech describing the concept of infinity. Either way, the use of the phrase "ends of the earth" has nothing to do with whether the earth is flat or not.
I didn't say that global warming or carbon dating are wrong. I'm saying that in BOTH cases, we have insufficient evidence to make the definite statements that have been made. Calculating half-lives of a given sample of radioactive material requires that we know how much of that sample was radioactive to begin with. There is no way to determine how much of a stable compound intermixed with an isotope started out as the isotope. There is no guarantee that the earth gets gradually warmer for one century every millennium because we don't have 1,000 years worth of weather readings. We *assume* that the earth is gradually getting warmer - and we assume that it is harmful to the planet - based on the weather data that we've got from the past century, and that the upswing in average temperature is caused by carbon emissions.
The case for radioactive dating I can do nothing about. I recycle, I drive a fuel efficient car, and I do my best to be energy conscious. As I said before, God gave us both the power and the RESPONSIBILITY to use this planet. I never said that it's God's fault or God's mess to clean up; I very directly said that we - mankind - has been given the responsibility by God to use the earth wisely. I don't understand how that' a copout.
I love it when people say how more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. I don't agree by any metric that God wants us to kill people who don't believe in Him, or to threaten to kill people if they don't believe in Him. Both the crusades and the Holocaust were grave atrocities. My heart goes out to every person who died in either event as well as to the Holocaust survivors and their families. I hope that we, as a society, learn from the mistakes of history, lest we repeat them. At the same time, Christians don't get a free ride either. Any idea how many Christians have been killed for believing in Jesus over the past two decades in places like China, the Middle East, Indonesia, and Korea? It's estimated that more people died in the past 20 years for being Christians than died in the Holocaust.
Where is God then, you ask? Here's my question for you: Do you like being told what to do? Do you like being limited in what you can and cannot do? Of course not! We were given something called a free will. Was God able to prevent the Holocaust? Of course He was! but what kind of free will is it if God said "you can only do things that I think are okay". Do you want God to prevent you from performing any acts condemned by the Bible? to take that to its logical conclusion, Jesus equated the heart-condition of hatred to physical murder. Do you want God controlling your thoughts and preventing you from having ill-will toward someone? That train of thought is kinda dumb, because we really wouldn't have a choice as to whether we accept Him or reject Him, would we? What about saying, "Well, God should only prevent things that we do to directly harm other people." So then you're saying that God should only strictly enforce a subset of the things that have been deemed to be sinful? Based on what? society's metric of morality? That's quite shaky, too. Either way, we'd be left with "restricted will" instead of a "free will".
Bonus points: in the 1970's a woman was raped. Had God intervened and prevented that rape, a very dear friend of mine would have never been born. God is infinite. He sees the earth in an entirely different perspective than we can ever hope to. He saw my friend, and the life that she would lead, and the millions of lives that would be directly impacted by hers. You won't find any argument from me that this girls' mother had a horrible experience. But do you want to be the one who tells this girl that her life is due to "one of God's oversights"? I wish that bad things didn't happen, I really do. But blaming God for all the bad things in the world that people cause is shortsighted and implies that we humans, the creation, know more than the Creator.
Foe the third-ish time, mankind was given the RESPONSIBILITY to use Planet Earth responsibly. This isn't a cosmic hotel where the maid will come and vacuum the floors and fluff the pillows for us. No, it is our responsibility to take care of the earth and its inhabitants. I think that the case for the earth being overpopulated, overpolluted, etc. is poorly researched and documented, but that doesn't give us the right to continue doing things that at best aren't beneficial for ourselves or our surroundings.
More bonus points: if you believe that life is only about the time you spend here, why not do whatever you want, pollute whatever you want, cut down as much rain forest as you want? In 80ish years it won't be your problem anymore!
Joey