ie8 fix

‘We view a tablet as a PC’: Microsoft chooses to repeat history

By | July 13, 2011, 5:36am PDT

Summary: It is beginning to look like Microsoft is about to repeat the Tablet PC history with Windows 8, and that is not a good thing.

Microsoft is trying to excite the tech crowd with Windows 8, the next version of the platform that the company is pushing for computers of all types, including tablets to compete with Apple’s iPad. The folks from Redmond have been showing early prototypes of Windows 8 that look a lot like the Windows Phone 7 interface, with live tiles sliding around the screen. It is obvious the attempt is to keep the Windows platform as the dominant line for Microsoft, while the rest of the mobile world has realized that full-blown computers are not what tablet customers want. It is beginning to look like Microsoft is about to repeat the Tablet PC history, and that is not a good thing.

“We view a tablet as a PC”.

This statement given yesterday by Windows Phone president Andy Lees at the Worldwide Partners Conference as reported by Electronista was directed at putting to bed any ideas that outsiders have for a tablet OS based on Windows Phone.

According to Microsoft’s transcript of Lees’ talk the PC theme remained, but had a few caveats (emphasis mine).

One of the key important things here, though, is the change that’s yet to happen, but it’s about to happen, and that is the bringing together of these devices into a unified ecosystem, because at the core of the device itself it’s possible to be common across phones, PCs, and TVs, and even other things, because the price drops dramatically. Then it will be a single ecosystem. We won’t have an ecosystem for PCs, and an ecosystem for phones, one for tablets. They’ll all come together. And just look at the opportunity here.

In 2010, if you count all of these things, there’s just under 700 million units sold in that year. And yet if you look at the predictions from IDC and add them up, that will increase to over a billion units that are sold in 2012. And notice how it’s additive; it’s not that this is about replacing the PC. And that’s why our strategy is that these new form factors are within a single ecosystem and not new ecosystems themselves. Windows has always spanned different PC form factors. And with Windows 8 we’re going to take this to a whole new level including tablets.

Now, a lot of people have asked me, are we going to produce a phone that is a tablet? You know, are we going to use Windows Phone 7 to produce tablets? Well, that is in conflict with this strategy. We view a tablet as a sort of PC. We want people to be able to do the sorts of things that they expect on a PC on a tablet, things like networking to be able to connect to networks, and utilize networking tools, to get USB drives and plot them into the tablet. To be able to do things like printing, all of the things using Office, using all of the things you would expect from a PC and provide a hybrid about how you can do that with the tablet, as well.

The comments shined a light on Microsoft’s view of the tablet market that is not accurate. It keeps alive the mistaken view that drove Microsoft’s Tablet PCs, that full-blown computers are what consumers want in a tablet. That didn’t work with the original Tablet PC, and that is not going to work for today’s consumer tablets. It’s looking like Microsoft is determined to repeat history, and a failed one at that.

Apple set the consumer space on its ear with the release of the iPad, the first tablet that breached the mainstream market in numbers. The iPad defined an entire market that has companies scrambling to penetrate, and none have done so successfully to date. What caught consumer’s eyes in the iPad was the fact that it wasn’t a full PC with all of the complexities those bring. No, the iPad was a pure mobile OS that focused on bringing a touch tablet experience that was simple yet full-featured enough to let users do the things that matter. Getting on the web, playing games and consuming media were the focus of the iPad with iOS, and consumers bought into the system by the millions.

The original Tablet PC designed by Microsoft is a full PC that nobody bought in significant numbers, and it has been around for a decade. The iPad sold more tablets in the first nine months than all of the Tablet PCs bought combined over a decade. That is a significant indicator of what consumers want, a simple mobile tablet and not a full-blown PC.

Microsoft seems to be pushing the ‘tablet as a PC’ philosophy in a desperate attempt to keep the Windows line driving everything it does outside the smartphone space. The choice to repeat history will likely have the same results as the first time; nice products that nobody buys because they are too complex to operate, maintain and develop apps for. Consumers don’t want tablets that are PCs, they want them to just work.

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James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long.

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James Kendrick has no affiliations or relationships that need to be disclosed.

Biography

James Kendrick

James Kendrick has been using mobile devices since they weighed 30 pounds, and has been sharing his insights on mobile technology for almost that long. Prior to joining ZDNet, James was the Founding Editor of jkOnTheRun, a CNET Top 100 Tech Blog that was acquired by GigaOM in 2008 and is now part of that prestigious tech network. James' writing has appeared in many print publications: Smartphone and Pocket PC Magazine, Information Week and Laptop Magazine to name a few. James' coverage of the mobile technology sector has regularly appeared in the New York Times, Salon.com and CNN/ Fortune online. Not just a writer, James has filmed numerous video reviews and how-tos that have garnered well over a million viewers. He has appeared on local news segments and been interviewed by the Associated Press on mobile technology topics. Additionally, James has been podcasting about mobile technology for years.

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RE: 'We view a tablet as a PC': Microsoft chooses to repeat history
jfreedle2@... 20th Jul
The major problem with Windows based tablets has always been the lack of the hardware vendors to actually produce functional hardware. They would always under-power these devices and charge more for the device. The only innovative thing that Apple has done was to market the heck out of the devices and all the lemmings went out and purchased the devices. The iPad is no different than the Handheld PC that I had back in 1997. If the hardware manufacturers would have actually marketed their tablets they would have indeed sold more than they have. What Apple has shown us is that marketing does indeed matter, how else does Apple continually sell horriblely designed products and people like them?
Just because a tablet has similar capabilities to a PC does not mean it is one
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I have a win7 tablet, and I like it.
FADS_z Updated - 13th Jul
@raffimaurer
I wil upgrade to win8 when it is availiable. But for new tablet, I will wait for 2013 intel 22nm cpu (with 50% TDP, 20W).
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@FADS_z Contrary to Microsoft's views here, it is a computer and it couldn't get much more personal. It's a personal computer, only better.
@symbolset
So right!
I am typing this on mine now. happy
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Love that UX my 24' desktop provides. Not sure why I'd spend money on a 10' tablet.
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@raffimaurer

... and other tablets, Microsoft is still pushing their decade-old Windows Tablet Edition mentality.

They are so clueless.
@RationalGuy

It is you who is pushing a decade old argument and applying it to Windows 8. Yes, a tablet is suppose to be a PC in that its limitless with its capablity just like a desktop is...just in a more portable form factor.

MS is far from clusless with their approach to Windows 8. A fully touch first UI that runs fully touch based (full screen) apps, with a smartphone-like integrated app store all running on ARM chips...sounds to me like they know what their doing.
@RationalGuy Since when is Windows 8 a decade old OS dumba$$? That's what I thought.
@JoeHTH
The kernel is decade old.. slow, buggy .. not efficient.. for those people who came from ancient age..
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Reading is Funamental
RationalGuy Updated - 15th Jul
@JoeHTH

The MS mentality towards tablets is a decade old. Parts of the OS are older than that.

So, go f--k yourself.
@timotim

A fully touch first UI ...

The Metro UI in Windows 8 is just bolted on top of the Windows 7 stack. In the demo videos I've seen, when you go into Word, or some other non-Metro application, you get down shifted into regular old crappy Start-Button-in-the-lower-left-corner, completely-not-optimized-in-any-way-for-touch Windows.

Fully touch UI? Keep dreaming.

Microsoft is sitting on some awesome technology that could completely revolutionize how people use computers. They just don't have to guts or the vision to make it happen.
@RationalGuy
Loving my Microsoft tablet. It even has Flash support. Clueless is placing limits on the user. Anything less than a full OS, is simply a lesser OS.
@timotim Yes, a tablet is suppose to be a PC in that its limitless with its capablity just like a desktop is...just in a more portable form factor.
So what makes you think you get to decide what a tablet is supposed to be? Or are you just making that statement because it fits what MS is doing?
@raffimaurer
I totally agree. Basically Microsoft sells a hammer (Windows), so it sees everything as a nail. They should instead be trying to make other tools to sell for nuts, bolts, and screws. Windows tablets have been tried and tried forever with very little success. I don't want a Windows tablet. Period. Windows just doesn't work for tablets. Windows is for the desktop. (Even that might change.)

Hey Microsoft, start from scratch and put your smartest people on it. Sure, make it sync data natively with Windows, but it should be a totally new instant-on, secure, self-repairing, OS that is built from the ground up to be touch-centric. Learn from the mistakes of everyone else and create something totally new with a tight hardware spec. People are tired of doing periodic driver updates and waiting for systems to boot before they check email or browse. The success of the iPad is proof. We don't want more of the same. We want something better.
@BillDem
From the posts below, it seems that there is a demand for a Windows tablet.

Microsoft doesn't have to start everything from scratch. Microsoft has spent the last few years preparing for Windows 8 on the tablet.
* Instant on: All modern OSs instantly wake from sleep and my Windows PC doesn't take much longer to wake from a powered off state than my iPad does.
* Secure: Windows is secure.
* Self Repairing: Windows actually has better self repairing features in it than any other OS I've seen.
* Touch Centric: How deep does the UI have to go? It shouldn't be in the kernel so no kernel rewrite needs to happen. MS did the right thing here. They wrote the Metro UI from scratch.
* Tight hardware spec: I agree. Microsoft has shown they are willing to do this with WP7 so there is little reason to believe they won't do the same with the tablet.
* Driver updates: I'm not sure what you are talking about here. All devices have drivers, yes, even iPads and iPhones. Driver updates happen with OS updates. No reason why the same couldn't happen with a Windows 8 tablet, again, assuming a tight hardware spec (which I agree is a requirement).
* Waiting for systems to boot: I don't understand this one. What are you talking about?

As for "We don't want more of the same", I would suggest that creating yet another iPad clone is exactly "more of the same". A Windows 8 tablet would actually be something different.

"We want something better" Yes, something better than Windows XP and Windows 7 tablets. I agree. Will a Windows 8 tablet be something better? Hopefully. If not, it will fail.
@BillDem
To use your analogies, MS is selling a multi-function tool, Windows. Windows tablets have been tried with XP-time technology.
Tablets today are still a niche product. Sure the numbers sound impressive. But compared to the existing base of desktops/laptops/netbooks they are laughable.
I have been toying with the idea of a tablet. But then $500 to $600 for a very limited device?
As low powered chips get cheaper and more available, we will see full fledged OSes on tablets. So I think MS has the right idea.
@BillDem
Do more research on Windows 8 before commenting. Instant-on, secure and updates have all been talked about by the Windows 8 team. What dont you understand about Windows 8 running on ARM?
@BillDem LOL! They did. It's called Windows 8. Windows 8 tablets will be instant on. It will be smooth. It will be fast.

"We want something better. "

No, you just want a gimped piece of crap like the iPad, that is extremely limited and restrictive in what you can do on it. I have a smartphone. I sure as hell don't need another one with a big screen.

If you love Apple so much, have at it.
@BillDem dear sir have you seen windows 8 demo? please go to you tube i am sure you will be blown out of your socks.
@toddybottom
Windows is secure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what have u smoked?
@BillDem Right On. Everyone who replies about their system restarts from hibernate / sleep mode, just doesn't get it...
@Toddybottom (below)
If there is such a high demand for a Windows tablet, why aren't those people already using them? They have existed for many years. The reason is because they are crap. What these people REALLY want is something as good as an iPad, (with the same battery life, light weight, instant usability, and slim profile) that runs Windows and all of their Windows applications. The problem is, Windows is precisely the reason why none of the tablets have ever been as good as an iPad and never sell as well.

1. You are obviously confusing "instant-on" with "wake from sleep." There is a massive difference which involves significant power consumption. On a tablet, this means the difference between 8-10 hours of battery life versus 3-4 if you're lucky.

2. Secure? There is NO OS on the market today which is secure. I've programmed since before there were personal computers and I can tell you that every OS on the market is based on kernel technology from the last century. That's precisely why we need a start-from-scratch approach using 21st century research. Is Windows 7 (and by extension, 8) _more_ secure than previous versions. Yes, definitely. But, it could be FAR more secure if it weren't written to be backward compatible with technology from last century.

3. Self-repairing. Being able to restore some system files when asked and being self-repairing are completely different. I'm talking self-repairing file systems, fault tolerance, tamper-proof kernels, completely virtualized services, and a myriad of other things not being done in current OS offerings.

4. Touch-centric. Tacking touch commands onto a mouse-based UI is not the same as engineering the UI as a touch-only interface from the start. You don't have the option of resorting to a mouse ever, so you have to think about things differently.

5-6. We basically agree that the tight hardware spec is a requirement to eliminate constant driver updates.

7. Waiting for systems to boot. I have an overclocked i965 Extreme Edition processor on this system which runs at 3.8GHz. It is reading from a striped RAID 0 array of Velociraptor hard drives. Yet it takes nearly 2 minutes for the system to be truly usable from a power-on. That is called "boot time" and it is plain crazy for it to be that long on a machine this fast. Again, "wake from sleep" is NOT the same as booting.

To clarify, "more of the same" in context means using kernel technology from the last century, which has already been running on tablets nobody wants for many years. Now, we tack on a mouse UI with some touch functions added and try to sell it exactly the same way. In my mind, that's more of the same versus truly new. And yes, the iPad is mostly* more of the same, too. (*with a much better touch-only UI) That's why it and every other tablet are so easily hacked. Somebody needs to create truly new.

Personally, I don't care who (if anyone) buys Windows tablets. I'm saying there is a reason they have never sold well in their LONG history and I personally don't believe they ever will. They have always suffered from long boot times, heavy weight, and crap battery life. Running it on ARM won't automatically solve these problems. Neither will tacking touch controls onto a mouse interface and calling it new. I've been around long enough to recognize this dog and pony show from every other improved iteration of Windows on tablets. Lots of hype, lots of hope, and utter disappointment when the product finally appears. I'll believe it when I see it and despite YouTube fanboys, I haven't seen it.
@raffimaurer
I'd rather have too much functionality than have too much left out. These things are computers, after all. My old IOS phone was a Unix computer and my Android phone is too. They are just locked down to a subset of functionality.

Perhaps MS IS exploring a new market - for tablets that are fully functional computers.
@Schoolboy Bob
I've talked to several of my colleagues and honestly, we are holding out for a fully featured tablet. I already have a mobile phone, why would I want a slightly larger mobile phone. That's why I was impressed with the Asus EEESlate. It was pretty powerful and had Win7, along with different connectors for mem cards/USB/HDMI. It was an adaptable piece of hardware which makes it more useful.

I like the idea of tablets being fully featured while having that convenient, portable touch interface. I can transfer my files to my tablet from my desktop then continue my productivity on the go.
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Yes.
WilErz 13th Jul
@ Schoolboy Bob

I've used a Windows tablet PC (a model pre-dating the iPad by a couple of years). Its problems were size/weight, battery life, cost and lack of a touch-friendly UI with apps. Arm (or potentially even an improved Atom) solves the first two and the march of technology solves the third. The fourth will probably be solved by the new touch UI in Windows 8, combined with touch-based apps.

A tablet is quite obviously a PC: essentially a slim laptop with a touch screen instead of a keyboard/mouse. A touch-based input device and UI don't stop it being a PC any more than a mouse and Wimp UI (instead of a text-mode command line) stopped a PC with Windows or Mac OS being a PC. It just means you need apps optimised for touch input rather than a keyboard/mouse. If Microsoft build that without losing the current tablet PC advantages (primarily the stylus for writing text/maths) or the standard PC advantages (i.e. PC apps with a keyboard and mouse attached), they'll have a device that's better than the iPad.

The critical issue for Windows 8 tablets will probably be cost. If they're superior to the iPad, as it looks like they will be, and competitive on price, they'll have a good chance of winning against the iPad, just like Windows 95 did against the Mac in the 90s. If they aren't competitive on price, they'll probably fail. Android and webOS are clearly inferior, and often aren't even competitive on price, so it's hardly a surprise they're failing.
@Schoolboy Bob : Agree! as far as it doesn't much effect battery life negatively, 'much functionality' is actually what I want!
@Schoolboy Bob
Despite my skepticism, I would love to see MS finally succeed in the tablet market, but even the flashy YouTube demos don't convince me that they have a shot. In order to use existing Windows apps, you lose the nice WP7-looking touch interface, and go back to using your finger as a mouse on a standard Windows desktop. New apps written for Windows 8 touch will be fine (if they appear) but the entire reason people want Windows is to run the Windows apps they already own (some, simply because they think that makes it a real computer).

Plus, Microsoft are demoing on Kal-El quad cores. When HP or Dell ship with a dirt-cheap chip instead, it won't be the same experience. I'm guessing these tablets are going to weigh at least 50% more than an iPad or Xoom and have maybe 4 hours of battery life on a good day. Will they be better than previous Windows tablets? Definitely. Will they still suck? The jury is still out.

Meanwhile, I'm using a couple dozen of the 500,000 applications available for my tablet for 8-10 hours every day before needing a recharge and chuckling at all of the hype and random logic. Do I care if the apps aren't the same ones I use on my Windows desktop? No, because the data I create is the important part to me, not the app. The data is exactly the same and these programs are actually easier to use. The focus on what OS is running on the device is misplaced, in my mind. I focus on whether I can get specific work done, how much more weight do I have to carry, and how long can I use it before I have to plug it in.
@raffimaurer
Its just like saying a mac is not a pc. IT is.
@raffimaurer
...and just because some tablets have similar capabilities to a phone does not mean it is one.
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Not a sledge hammer
xyz10_z 14th Jul
For microsoft every thing is a sledge hammer
just because a tablet doesnt have a FEW things a pc doesnt have doesnt make it not a pc.
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Rather than seeing new markets they try to fit everything into the PC mold.

Guess the industry will pass them by....
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Nothing innovative about your remark
William Pharaoh 13th Jul
@itguy10
same old rehashed post from 100 times before.
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And your post?
Economister 13th Jul
@William Pharaoh

Mr. MSmole? It seems to me your main contribution around here is to dump on posters making, in your view, negative posts about MS. He's got you beaten by a country mile.
  • Flagged
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Read on Economister
William Pharaoh 13th Jul
@William Pharaoh
I post straight forward opinions and replys when the person merits it. Read below (or other blogs) and see that for yourself.

ittyguy, on the other hand, is here for one reason alone - to rehash the same fake stories and posts, so he obviously is looking for the responses we give him, so what's wrong with that?

As for your reference that anyone who isn't an MS basher is a mole, you're protesting way too much!

I wonder who you work for? Apple, Red Hat, ZDNet? Maybe Canonical?

If there's a mole here, you may have just outed yourself as you try way to hard to make everyone else out to be a mole, I think you may actually be one.

You're Economolester! happy
  • Flagged
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He's absolutely right, get over it.
@William Pharaoh
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@William Pharaoh
And it needs to be repeated over and over again since some people are too dense to get it.
  • Flagged
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My very Windows centric corporation
HollywoodDog 13th Jul
@itguy10 ... just bought iPads for the sales force.

Microsoft phail.
@HollywoodDog - Coming from you that doesn't say much.
@HollywoodDog may god have mercy on you, six or 8 months on you would want to shoot yourself
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MS' formula ...
P. Douglas 13th Jul
@itguy10

... has worked for the company for decades. I think MS' Windows 8 strategy is right on the money. What critically made MS' former Tablet PC strategy fail, was that Windows' UI was not holistically designed for touch. Also there were no Windows apps designed for touch. These two important things are being addressed in Windows 8. As long MS can get a user experience comparable to the iPad with Windows, I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. In fact, using Windows allows MS to leapfrog Apple by providing a touch experience that has capabilities that far exceed iOS. Also developers will be able to create apps that span many PC form factors including tablets, touch based desktops, Windows 8 based consumer, and other specialized devices. Developers will also be able to target smartphones and game consoles with their Windows based code.

Window 8 is therefore is not a repeat of history, because there are critical differences in this version of the OS that were not present in previous versions. These are Win 8's holistic approach to UI / UX design for touch, and a serious effort to drive the development of apps for the new ecosystem.
@P. Douglas

Sounds like a lot of pie-in-the-sky that we've heard before. More vaporware and false promises.

I'll believe the finished product when I see it.
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@P. Douglas
Right on the money. I have an ipad but cannot wait for a Windows 8 tablet to come out, and yes I want to have the same functionality as a PC. Then I will be able to get some decent work done rather than use it for reading email and surfing the net.
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As so did mainframes...
cosuna 13th Jul
@P. Douglas ... which had worked for decades... and then came minis and stole part of the market...

Then... came PCs with subpar specs (64K memory against 256Mb) and DEC ignored them and went belly up. IBM did not ignore them, got a decent product, ruled for about 10 years and later was overthrown by *real* PC manufacturers that just fed on the model that they "created".

So, could Win 8 overthrow the iPad? Maybe. Will that mentality prevail (tablets == PCs). Not really. Most probably we will see laptops as some form of complex tablet in the future.
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BTW...
cosuna 13th Jul
Microsoft not only risks loosing the tablet battle with Win8, but also, the PC battle since as far as I have heard, no enterprise IT guy yet has praised Win8, rather they think it won't work with a keyboard and mouse and will require expensive hardware upgrade to work on a business setting.
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What made the PC ...
P. Douglas Updated - 14th Jul
... displace its predecessors, was the fact that it was personal. The user was able to control his machine, rather than an admin. The above is also why I've said repeatedly, that the public cloud can never displace private clouds (because people prefer to own and control stuff, rather than have someone else do it for them - even at greater expense). The above is also why I said before that client computing will always triumph over thin clients, because control of the computing experience lies in the hands of the user, and not in someone elses.

I believe Win 8 will likely triumph over the iPad, because the iPad is a second or third computing device, while the PC is a first, second, etc. device. If people can obtain the same experience as the iPad on their first devices, there will be little need for them to get the iPad. They will be able to do both information consumption and production on their devices. This is where Win 8 can significantly undermine the iPad and its clones when it comes out.
@itguy10
I actually would like to have a full featured tablet. I like the idea of not being limited to the tasks that I can perform or if I have to purchase new proprietary software when I switch from my desktop to my tablet. I want functionality and adaptability as oppose to getting something because it's, "techi-cool".
@Silverback1138 spot on mate
@itguy10
The industry will pass them by? Haha...what industry is this? MS just announced that they sold over 400 million copies of Windows 7, while Apple has only sold 26 million iPads...who are you kidding? MS knows that tablets will only continue to become more powerful...this is great for them because with added power comes added functionality...what better functionality than the limitless nature of Windows.
@timotim only windows can propel tablets into the future where they become so functional as to replace the laptop and even better. what can you expect from a baby fart os like the ipad.\?
The major problem with Windows based tablets has always been the lack of the hardware vendors to actually produce functional hardware. They would always under-power these devices and charge more for the device. The only innovative thing that Apple has done was to market the heck out of the devices and all the lemmings went out and purchased the devices. The iPad is no different than the Handheld PC that I had back in 1997. If the hardware manufacturers would have actually marketed their tablets they would have indeed sold more than they have. What Apple has shown us is that marketing does indeed matter, how else does Apple continually sell horriblely designed products and people like them?

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