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Hey, whatcha you looking at, sales dude?

By | July 14, 2006, 3:21am PDT

Summary: It’s not obvious, in fact, whether the idea of privacy applies to transactions or communications carried out over public infrastructure

If your job is to proactively find terrorists hiding inside a large civilian population you can’t adopt the usual police strategy of waiting for the crime to be committed and then looking carefully at everyone remotely in the emotional or commercial vicinity of the event. Instead what police usually do is treat everyone in the population as suspect, try to guess at some set of parameters describing individuals likely to be of interest, Finding and outing the hidden terrorist isn’t that different from finding and selling the customer you haven’t seen yet. and then look carefully at everyone matching the criteria derived from those parameters.

The problem with this, of course, is that setting the criteria too broadly wastes manpower and is generally considered unacceptable on civil libertarian grounds, while setting them too narrowly can defeat the purpose of the excerise.

Among the many responses in widespread use among American agencies with responsibilities in this area the least invasive has been the use of pattern hunting applications to trawl through communications and financial transactions data. Basically what these systems do individually is see who connects to whom and at what level of remove - a high stakes version of the game in which people try to enumerate the intermediaries needed to connect one movie star to another -and together, of course, they look for cases where a trail in one is broken in the other.

From a libertarian perspective what’s important about this kind of approach to the problem of population scanning is that the contents of the communication or transaction have nothing to do with the pattern match and only become of interest after the system identifies one or more individuals as worth a closer look. Basically pattern trawling can be thought of as imposing a very small cost to privacy for almost everyone, while profiling and its consequences impose very high invasion of privacy costs on smaller target groups.

It’s not obvious, in fact, whether the idea of privacy even applies to transactions or communications carried out over public infrastructure if the snooping discloses only the existence of the connection and not its contents.

In other words, the biggest payoff this approach offers in addition to comprehensiveness and low cost, is much broader political acceptability - we are comparing, after all, having the police work off-line with bank and telecom connection records to having them interview the friends and neighbours of everyone whose colleagues or relatives have traveled to Pakistan within the last five years.

And here’s the zinger: If that payoff survives current court challenges in the United States, there are waiting commercial applications for the same technology.

Right now, for example, marketing people can use big on-line data warehouses to see what products get bought together by city, region, credit rating, or any one of a dozen or more other parameters -like in store location. Nothing wrong with that, right? it’s exactly how the police operate in criminal cases: wait for a 7/11 sales event (guy buys beer) and look at individual motivation (it’s 8:35PM and guy buys a bag of Pampers too).

But here’s a thought: the data’s out there to go beyond that, all the way to content free pattern discovery among all consumers, not just the store’s customers - because finding and outing the hidden terrorist isn’t that different from finding and selling the customer you haven’t seen yet.

In fact here’s a free prediction: we’ll know it’s happening when a national or major regional chain demonstrates its ability to predict the physical flow of a product fad across both its own customer base and the people who don’t normally come to its stores well enough to be neither over nor understocked in any store at any point in the process

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Topics

Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) is an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies.

Disclosure

Paul Murphy

I do not work for, or otherwise receive anything from, any of the companies I write about. I have some money in a number of funds that bet on the markets, including the technology market, but have no direct control over how these funds are administered or what investments are made. I use Sun and Apple technology both at home and at work.

Biography

Paul Murphy

Originally a Math/Physics graduate who couldn't cut it in his own field, Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) became an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies after a stint working for a DARPA contractor programming in Fortran and APL. Since then he's worked in both systems management and consulting for a range of employers including KPMG, the government of Alberta, and his own firm. In those roles he's "been there and done that" for just about every aspect of systems management and operation.

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But again...
qquidd@... 20th Jul 2006
Possible. I once talked to guy who was setting up a cluster for running signal/image processing algorithms for a defense lab. At a single lab he was talking ~5K node cluster. And that was not the only cluster at the lab. So there...
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Not seeing it
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
[that the contents of the communication or transaction have nothing to do with the pattern match]

and should NOT be looked into - but what if it is? If you can pattern match who called who on a telephone, than can't you use the SAME technology to scan everything that was said? Scan every word that was said in the conversation to look for things like "strategies to defeat the republicans in this year's election". No need to hire clumsy idiots to break into the Watergate Hotel - just fire up that software!

So it comes down to this - you don't really HAVE to scan contents, but there's nothing to stop you if you did. Now you have to ask yourself - do you TRUST your government to NOT do this?
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Question
rapson 14th Jul 2006
"you can pattern match who called who on a telephone, than can't you use the SAME technology to scan everything that was said?"

Are all communications recorded? Is every phone call I make recorded somewhere? If not, how could such scanning be done?

I was under the impression that it was just the details of the connnection itself that were scanned, with (possibly) monitoring done on subsequent calls once suspects were identified. Is that not correct?

Carl Rapson
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NSA
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
The "Echillon" program records all telephone coversations between the US and Europe (maybe/probably the entire world). The Europians were up in arms about it about 10 or more years ago.

Up until GW, the NSA was prohibited from recording converstations INSIDE the country. Do you think they still abide by that?
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But again...
rapson 14th Jul 2006
...are they actually doing that now? Is it even feasible? What kind of resources (servers, storage space) would it require to record every single telephone communication in the US?

Carl Rapson
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But again...
qquidd@... 20th Jul 2006
Possible. I once talked to guy who was setting up a cluster for running signal/image processing algorithms for a defense lab. At a single lab he was talking ~5K node cluster. And that was not the only cluster at the lab. So there...
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Right ( in the US anyway)
murph_z 14th Jul 2006
In the US only the end to end connection record is saved - about 14 bytes, not the 1000s needed if the content of the communication were saved.

Now in Canada and most of Europe that isn't true; police agencies routinely scan all long distance communications for keyword content and save anything triggering one of the filters.`-that's the technology the US is using on foreign calls: it's generally the foreign government doing the intercepting/recording; not the NSA.
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This is evil
jplatt39 15th Jul 2006
What people seem to forget is that the old bureaucracies the Revolutionaries fought against precisely did try these arguments. They claimed that they were hiring people who for example were looking only for patterns--the bureaucracy. Marlowe was supposedly one.

At the same time we are more and more facing a situation where the information online about us is defined as public no matter how it got there. While people are right that a technology exists which didn't before, acts which had been whimsical in many cases are more and more being carefully preserved for the public record.

Becoming a terrorist does take work and preparation. I feel that the focus on their online activities as the way to disrupt them, among other things gives the internet too much credit. It is a way to become informed about them period, and its best use can come from their public pronouncements their as everywhere else. That people are going to die from that doesn't change that people are dying anyhow--someone commented about Mumbai that this sort of thing would continue as long as Muslims interested in greater equality in India were ALL regarded as terrorists.

Google itself made clear it thought it had gone too far when it tried to resist those subpoenas.

If we really want greater security we're going to have to rethink it totally, and that means businesses should learn to cope without the motherloads of information which they have on us, and we should take a firm stand on this totally. And if some security chiefs say, you mean you want us to side with the terrorists, I can assure you that others will say "yes, and they're right.
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Googling
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
So what you are saying here is that you grab a bunch of info and then perform a Google-like search. Just like Google, you can specify as broad or narrow a search as you like. If M$ can't come close to doing this as well as Google, what are your expectations of the NSA being able to do it? Maybe they use Google internally . . .
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Can't see the difference?
ridingthewind 14th Jul 2006
You can't see a difference between the pattern matching done for crime prevention, versus a commercial invasion of privacy?
With public disclosure of what is being doing by the governtment security groups, I might be inclined to accept this "slight" privacy loss, but not an undisclosed, invasive, occassionally destructive (spybots) pattern search, designed so that some corporation profits even more.
And no, I don't care if my local bookstore runs out of the next Harry Potter book for a few days. Sheesh.
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Murph reminds me
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
of a young Einstein touting the enormous potential of Nuclear energy . . .
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Correct
Ross44 14th Jul 2006
It?s another technology which can be used for good or ill, and almost certainly will be used for both

Should we therefore
1. Do as much as possible to foster good systems of government and law?

2. Take some comfort that while it may be abused by big government or big business, it can be included in the countermeasures to such abuse - showing which beaurocrats communicated to which beaurocrats, which executives to which? (Similarly to how nuclear weapons may be seen as bad, but there may have been and be benefits in "everyone" having them)

While writing may I swallow my pride and show my ignorance and inability to deduce - can someone please explain what is meant by " [NT] "?
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NT
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
nt = no text i.e. A message that only contains the Subject.

However, it is also a MBTI (Myers-Briggs) term that means "Intuitive Thinking" type. Most people here are that type although it represents only 12.5% of the general population.
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Two different issues.
Anton Philidor 14th Jul 2006
Paradoxically, individual behavior is unpredictable, but look at a large number of people and patterns become clear and consistent.

Looking too closely at individuals, even trying to work with subgroups, reduces accuracy and utility.

The search for exceptions is different. The goal is to find things that only a few people do, like sending money from Osama or receiving money from him.



So a law that protects the privacy of individuals from commercial snooping is not a threat to the value of what the commercial companies are doing. Pass it.


Here I'm making an unconventional suggestion.

Going into someone's home and rifling through his papers to find something interesting related to a particular case would require a warning.
(There's a Supreme Court case about home computers. I haven't seen the outcome, but to me it's definitely private information entitled to legal respect.)

Telephone bills don't have much privacy protection, which I think is an incorrect judgment, but at least the user knows that the telephone company has to record the call to bill for it.

But if there is no individual item billing, then the individual can have an expectation of privacy. Before that privacy is violated, someone supposedly objective, a Judge, should say, Yes, that's reasonable.

I think that a Judge should decide whether any individual incident is sufficiently suspicious to justify obtaining personal information.

The same thing happens often enough that precedents will make the decision process easy. But it should happen.

Much as I want those acting against attackers to be successful, I also don't want to be exposed to the idle curiosity of strangers.
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A quagmire
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
[Paradoxically, individual behavior is unpredictable, but look at a large number of people and patterns become clear and consistent.]

So you approve of my usage of MBTI personality modeling? wink

[Telephone bills don't have much privacy protection, which I think is an incorrect judgment, but at least the user knows that the telephone company has to record the call to bill for it.]

If I rifled through your (snail) mailbox and grabbed your telephone bill - could I be prosecuted? If you threw it away and I dumpster-dived it - could I be prosecuted? If I walked up to your computer (say at work) while you were away, and printed myself a copy - could I be prosecuted? There are some murky scenarios here so I would say its not so clear.

[I think that a Judge should decide whether any individual incident is sufficiently suspicious to justify obtaining personal information.]

A secret judge that no non-governmental person gets to see is someone that you place your trust in?
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Best available.
Anton Philidor 14th Jul 2006
MBTI is not the most elaborate or useful scheme, but it does identify types within populations to keep conversations going.

Just don't try to predict an individual's behavior in a particular situation from his letter code.
(By the way, you'll be surprised I am in the absent-minded professor category.)


What you can look at legally depends upon your job and your purpose. The gray areas come not in terms of general authorization to violate privacy, but whether it's warranted in specific circumstances.

That's not a guarantee of clear and consistent rules, but, given unknowable possibilities, that's not as bad as might be.


On the Judge reviewing investigative actions, I would want to know anytime someone is looking for my records. But there are other people, I recognize, who should not be so informed.

If the alternative is discretion without review, I'm grateful for the Judge.
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Useful distinction, thanks
Ross44 14th Jul 2006
I don't want commercial "snooping" either.

But businesses should be allowed to monitor patterns at a large scale, non-individual (or family etc.), general level. Where they won't be abusing identifiable individual (or family, small group) info.

The ability to create and distribute goods as efficiently as possible should help, environmentally and economically.

There may be issues regarding the effects on what sizes of enterprise are necessary to be viable in different industries. But there will probably be room exceptions and for niche players, as with other scale factors.

I often find it useful to compare the use of modern, large scale, IT methods with small scale traditional methods.

E.g. the super computer picks out links and patterns for the national scale retailer or police. Well, an astute village retailer or policeman had (has) their eye on patterns as well. The village system is of course also open to error and abuse, but can be even more effective.
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Its all Database views
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
As DBAs know, you can give access to tables and or tuples and that is called a view. If it is done "right", the person executing his search will only get to view certain data. All it takes is non-vigilant DBAs to expose too much personal information.
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I'll be glad...
rapson 14th Jul 2006
...when you get off this 'dude' kick. A little too 'Owen Wilson' for me... happy

Carl Rapson
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Owen
Roger Ramjet 14th Jul 2006
Man, everytime I see that "dude" I want to straighten that nose out . . .
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Many thanks [NT]
Ross44 14th Jul 2006
Many thanks
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What happened to Unix?
TonyMcS 16th Jul 2006
While these rambling musings are quite annoying, I'm wondering what's actually happened to your small area of expertise?

Libertarianism - oh god not another agenda.

Yep government is just evil - yay rational anarchism - oh wait most people aren't rational are they?

Stick with what you know Paul.
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the reason why he is all over the place
zzz1234567890 17th Jul 2006
"Stick with what you know Paul"
If he knows nothing, what is Paul going to stick with. Hence him going all over the place.

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