Scaring yourself and others

By | October 31, 2009, 12:15am PDT

Summary: Scary Halloween ghostshosts come in many guises -and the scariest ones in IT, at least for for non AIX users (where ghost processes are still common), are the OS ghosts invoked through virtualization and the ghostly shadows cast by your boss’s belief that he knows something about technology and how to manage it.

I pay Shaw cable for a static IP address, so it came as something of a surprise when they changed it - and worse, the changes this imposed at my end brought home the sad reality that I don’t know Solaris as well as I thought: it took several rounds of things silently going wrong over the course of several days to discover that I’d sabotaged myself by breaking the link between the hosts and ipnodes files.

Finding out that something you normally treat as known background magic isn’t, is frightening because it strikes at the heart of your self image as a competent professional in your field - and, of course, when others point this out to you the usual human response is to strike back in anger.

And that has a corollary: if you really want to scare yourself, pick something your bosses think they understand and force them into a position where they find out that they don’t.

Halloween is a really good time for this - particularly if your bosses think virtualization is the answer to anything beyond their own need for budget management. People have finally started to catch on that there are performance costs to ghosting - the practice of running multiple guest OSes (or ghosts) under one real one.

In this context Sun blogger Jan Brosowski draws an interesting conclusion from a comparison between the results obtained from a SAP benchmark running under VMware and the same benchmark running on a similar machine in a Solaris container:

Do two “half-box” virtual machines on the same box perform better than the full box? Well, obviously no: Due to Intel’s Hyper-Threading technology it’s complicated to extrapolate from half of a system to a full utilized system. Both benchmarks used 8 virtual CPUs representing 8 of the totally available 16 threads, and not a single CPU. So they will have used 8 cores, but only the first thread of each.

Will the use VMWare mean a significant loss of performance?: Well, obviously yes. Of course, some of the lower performance is caused by the OS. We have already shown in several benchmarks the advantage of Solaris as OS for SAP. But - we speak about a lower performance of 36%, more than one third! So, there is a major impact of the virtualization.

Although containerization has much lower overheads than ghosting (because there’s only one OS running) and his conclusion therefore makes intuitive sense, there are other issues that would have to be resolved before we could accept his conclusion as general - but if you just want to scare ghosting fans on Halloween, using this to show people selling PC virtualization as hardware efficient that it’s arguably about a third less efficient than containerization should do the job nicely!

And if that doesn’t suffice for you - try reminding them that their job is to provide the best possible user service, and that virtualization always reduces the quality of service by slowing system response.

Either way, you’ll get your happy Halloween thrill - because their response? guaranteed to scare you first and them later!

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Topics

Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) is an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies.

Disclosure

Paul Murphy

I do not work for, or otherwise receive anything from, any of the companies I write about. I have some money in a number of funds that bet on the markets, including the technology market, but have no direct control over how these funds are administered or what investments are made. I use Sun and Apple technology both at home and at work.

Biography

Paul Murphy

Originally a Math/Physics graduate who couldn't cut it in his own field, Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) became an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies after a stint working for a DARPA contractor programming in Fortran and APL. Since then he's worked in both systems management and consulting for a range of employers including KPMG, the government of Alberta, and his own firm. In those roles he's "been there and done that" for just about every aspect of systems management and operation.

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umm. I actually believe in a three machine view
murph_z Updated - 7th Nov 2009
Two concurrent production units that can take over each other's job and a test system.

And, yes, I have run all the big stuff, including SAP, this way.

And about those jerks? I like to keep "consultants" (especially from the big firms) the *&^* out of the way. If you have to do development ("customization") get them a separate physical box to play on - knowing that by the tim,e they finish, you'll be wiping it to load the next commercial release anyway. happy
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Hogwash!
mrye@... 31st Oct 2009
First of all, if you're paying for a static IP address, why did your ISP change it? Did the notify you prior to changing it? If not, they can get in deep trouble for that.

Second, on today's hardware using virtualization causes little to no noticeable performance hit. On the Intel servers we have, the performance difference is hardly noticeable (i.e. negligible).
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uh uh
murph_z Updated - 31st Oct 2009
1) my only alternative to shaw is Telus. Telus has better technology, but unfortunately they also have more IT people and so things go wrong more often.

And, no they don't get in trouble for acting like a monopoly because Canada is a land of govt protected monopolies

2) so 1+1 ~=1 ? I know x86 math is questionable at best, but that has to be faintly ridiculous even by wintel standards.
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Again with the faulty benchmarks
civikminded Updated - 1st Nov 2009
Come on, man. Is Sun even trying anymore?

What is the storage configuration on each of these machines? Is the VMWare server using VMFS or raw LUNS? Why is the Solaris box running Oracle 10g and the VMWare box running MaxDB?

I think the real story there is actually "Achieve 75% of the performance of Solaris/Oracle on SAP WITH A FREE DATABASE AND OS!" That's gotta be a dagger in the Solaris box on a $/SAPS basis.

Plus you make the foolish assumption that consolidation is the only benefit to virtualization. How much better is that VMWare solution when you need to replace a fan on the system its running on? VMotion it to another box in the cluster and keep on truckin. How much would VMWare simplify your SAP DR policy compared to Solaris containers? How much money is saved through VMWare dynamic resource scheduling that would allow 1 VM to use a whole machine, say during batch processing runs, and then automatically consolidate it with 6-7 other VM's on 1 machine when it sits idle at other times of the day?

Please remember to fully digest the Sun blogs before you regurgitate them back up.
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Burp
murph_z 2nd Nov 2009
1) read what I said - I'm not defending his conclusion.

2) containers are "mobile" too (maybe you could take your own advice?)

3) that's 2/3rds, not 3/4ths ..

4) the original has links to the details you request

5) VM savings? containers are free, VM isn't. 'Nough said.
--
Seriously, containers are the modern solution to the problem VM addresses.
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Answers
civikminded 2nd Nov 2009
1) read what I said - I'm not defending his conclusion.

ORLY?

Although containerization has much lower overheads than ghosting (because there?s only one OS running) and his conclusion therefore makes intuitive sense, there are other issues that would have to be resolved before we could accept his conclusion as general - but if you just want to scare ghosting fans on Halloween, using this to show people selling PC virtualization as hardware efficient that it?s arguably about a third less efficient than containerization should do the job nicely!

2) containers are "mobile" too (maybe you could take your own advice?)

Mobile from a hardware perspective only. Can you move a Solaris container over a WAN storage and all to a remote physical location HOT? Didn't think so.

3) that's 2/3rds, not 3/4ths ..

Well, I'm looking at SAPs and if you do the math its something like 26% difference. I'm not sure what they concocted up.

4) the original has links to the details you request

The link they posted to details nothing about their test setup's storage infrastructure.

5) VM savings? containers are free, VM isn't. 'Nough said.

VMWare ESX is indeed free. http://www.vmware.com/products/esxi/
You pay for the enterprise tools. (vSphere stuff) Is Oracle free?
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huh?
murph_z Updated - 2nd Nov 2009
1) does ORLY stand for Oh I'm sorry, I can't understand sentences with more than three words? -

2) yep: you didn't think (or check) But if you knew something about Solaris containers you'd know that you can move them from one machine to another -and if you also control the network you can do it while the app is running. (Dumb idea, but then so is wan storage)

3) he says one third - remember what i wrote about the other issues?

4) this is about containers vs VMs at he enterprise level - not oracle vs maxDB at any level. That said, you can get Oracle free too, if you just want a play copy.
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Fawlty Towers
Roger Ramjet 3rd Nov 2009
[Plus you make the foolish assumption that consolidation is the only benefit to virtualization. How much better is that VMWare solution when you need to replace a fan on the system its running on? VMotion it to another box in the cluster and keep on truckin.]

Obviously your first statement corresponds to the answer - You have extra capacity? UNUSED servers? That would dispel any advantage of consolidation. In the "real" world, you would need to take down development servers to make the room (and they usually have lower specs).

[How much money is saved through VMWare dynamic resource scheduling that would allow 1 VM to use a whole machine, say during batch processing runs, and then automatically consolidate it with 6-7 other VM's on 1 machine when it sits idle at other times of the day?]

Hmm, 1) Money is SPENT on VMware. 2) I believe UNIX allows applications to use resources automatically.

Did you just DRINK the Koolaid or do you SWIM in it?
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Under Fenestrated!?
Ross44 3rd Nov 2009
Go on - admit it, you were one paper clip short of a working system!

I'm certainly not an unalloyed fan of MS*, but they have improved a lot. So even at the price of a some bloat wouldn't you have saved a lot of time and grief if your OS had warned you: 'This action may damage your network connection, are you sure?' Or had helped you: 'You have no network connection, click here for help' where the troubleshooter could include 'your hosts and ipnodes files may need to be reconnected, click here for the wizard'.

As systems continue to increase in complexity and experts specialise more and money / time stays tight don't people like you have to accept a gradual slide from knowing the underlying details to having some idea and making good guesses as to which 'wizard' paths to take? After all, when did you last enter a hard drive's parameter's into BIOS manually? Don't you already expect all sorts of things to be automated?

Note your reply in "uh uh"
Quote
1) my only alternative to shaw is Telus. Telus has better technology, but unfortunately they also have more IT people and so things go wrong more often.
End quote

A less kind person than myself might be tempted to note that you seem to be one of those 'IT people" ...

As for bloat, it needn't be that bad surely, if a lot of the helpful stuff is mostly kept out of the way unless or until needed?

*Note the face saver - you can always say 'Yes, but I prefer Apple's approach'

Let's just hope that Tony M is not about!
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Yep
murph_z Updated - 3rd Nov 2009
Particularly embarrasing since I removed the paper clip myself - thus demonstrating both my point and yours.

As for the wizard -I was/am a big fan of SAM (and webmin) but scripters (liek the guys who wrote Sun's sysunconfig/config s) can't anticipate all user created problems - and, of course self created problems are always the hardest to find.

Live and forget, I guess happy
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Hmmmm, no one cares
tonymcs@... 3rd Nov 2009
Unless you can drum up some more hate on Windows Rudy, you are fast becoming the most ignored blogger on ZDNet.

This may have to do with the topics. Sun has very few users and followers, we all use an OS where your little problem would be handled or at least tell you what's needed and virtualisation gets used when it's needed.

You really don't understand the modern world and it's a little sad - your rejection of object oriented code is a case in point. If you'd done any coding lately you'd realise the benefits, but that was long ago and far away wasn't it?

Reading about your problems and praise of Solaris is like listening to an 8 track cartridge fanatic lamenting CDs.
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YOU seem to care...
Coogol 4th Nov 2009
Murph can at least count on you to not ignore him, Tony (if that's your real name).
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RE: Scaring yourself and others
JesperFrimann 5th Nov 2009
Looking at this from an architect level, I can only laugh.
This is comparing apples to pears. If you have just a little SAP experience from the REAL world, you can quickly see that this pears versus apples. This is all about isolation.
Let me try to explain.

The most efficient way, with regards to CPU/Memory/IO utilization, of running two SAP system side by side on the same machine is to run it in the same OS image.

Running things in Jails/Containsers/wPars will allow you to do isolation on a user level, and do prioritizing between the two workloads, etc. And you will still be pretty efficient, but not as efficient as above.

Running things in virtual machines will allow you to have isolation at the OS level, while still being pretty efficient, but not as efficient as above.

So students it's not a question about either Single OS image or Containers/jails/wpars or Virtual machines.IT IS WHICH SOLUTIONS DO I USE.

Example.

You have Two landscapes of one SAP systems a Development system and a Test Development system. You put those on the same os image.

You have two development systems, one for external consultant and one for internal developers. You want user isolation between these systems, but they have to run on the same OS stack. You put them each in one container/jain/wpar on the same OS image.

You have a Test system, a QA system and a production system. You need seperation the whole way down to the OS, so you can test patches for production first in Test and then in QA. Hence you choose 3 virtual machines.

// Jesper
Everything you say here made perfect sense - when the machine cost $3 million and a year's salary cost $5,000.

Now the box costs $2,500 and the programmer costs $85,000 - so split the machine ala System 370? or just buy the developers (or consultants) a separate box?
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I feel your pain..
civikminded 6th Nov 2009
Don't listen to the naysayers here. I'd like to see Murph support a moderate sized production SAP landscape using his one machine philosophy.

2 weeks later after he had added the 128th gig of swap space for some Basis jerks, the system VMM would be SIGKILL-ing processes randomly to keep the box from crashing, while BI cube runs would be smashing production IO, he would quit IT totally and become a professional stone retaining wall installer.
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umm. I actually believe in a three machine view
murph_z Updated - 7th Nov 2009
Two concurrent production units that can take over each other's job and a test system.

And, yes, I have run all the big stuff, including SAP, this way.

And about those jerks? I like to keep "consultants" (especially from the big firms) the *&^* out of the way. If you have to do development ("customization") get them a separate physical box to play on - knowing that by the tim,e they finish, you'll be wiping it to load the next commercial release anyway. happy
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Q: re: VM
Roger Ramjet 6th Nov 2009
Let's say that the marketplace becomes mostly virtual. Doesn't this let developers off the hook for designing efficient programs? I would imagine that you could do all sorts of "dangerous" programming if you ASSUMED that no other apps would be running. Why make efficient code if it's hard to compare - and you can blame it on the VMs? Nothing to keep em "honest" . . .
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This is already happened
civikminded 6th Nov 2009
This has already happened 2 decades ago, and it has nothing to do with virtualization. Cheap, ubiquitous hardware has lead to the 1 app per server datacenter.
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i.e. Windoze. If the OS can't run more than one app, we might as well design for that. This doesn't exist (so much) on *NIX.

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