ie8 fix

The IT role in the mortgage meltdown

By | October 8, 2008, 12:15am PDT

Summary: IT did not have a major role in creating the current credit crisis - but a lot of IT people had the information needed to draw more attention to the risks the industry was incurring, and collectively what we did was nothing.

The essence of the recent credit meltdown is simple: American banks are forced by law to value their mortgage portfolios at what others will pay for them, but because they also face minimal book equity percentage rules, a drop in the third party market for mortgage derivatives can force a bank into technical bankruptcy - and because that triggers a range of creditor protection measures which effectively shut down the bank’s day to day operations, financial institutions participating in inter-bank transfers with banks rumored to be headed for trouble either refuse to lend or raise their overnight rates and either way push their partners over the brink into insolvency.

On the surface the roots of this are well known - I believe the rather overtly partisan summaries provided by Charles Smith ( Cover-Ups Led to Financial Crisis), in this article by Thomas Sowell or in this eight minute youtube video are actually pretty close to what an unbiased person would have made from the facts.

None of the public finger pointing I’ve seen, however, addresses the IT role in this - specifically the general willingness of the IT people involved to quietly go along with senior management wishes instead of holding their collective feet to the fire on either, or both, the practical problems with risk valuation or the moral issues raised by public financial statements that must have seemed obviously dishonest to insiders.

Now on a personal basis I need to mention that reporting to the assistant deputy minister responsible for systems that he had neither the authority to embark on a hundred million dollar IT redevelopment nor the skills to pull it off, got me blacklisted by Alberta Health - and raising the issue, with the president of a mid range public company, that his finance vice president had just told analysts about the outstanding success of a major financial systems change that hadn’t actually started yet, got my contract pulled in short order.

Personal experience aside, however, the moral issue here is clear: we are generally employed by the organizations we work for, not the people running them - and owe our primary loyalty to the business owners and stake holders, not whoever happens to be in charge.

And we’re the information custodians: at Worldcom it was Bernie Ebbers who went to jail, but hundreds of people, many of them working in IT with daily access to key information, had to know better than he did what was going on. Similarly hundreds of people at Fannie and Freddie had access to all of the information needed to send Messrs Raines and Johnson to jail -but even during the congressional hearings raised by the OfHEO [Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, regulators for Fannie/Freddie] audit, none of these people spoke up.

Some people did speak up, quietly, about the second set of issues: technical problems with correctly valuing mortgage backed securities.

There are two versions of this. In the simple one, the allegation is that Wall Street’s traders knowingly used inadequate valuation models - here’s a bit from an article for the New York Times by Saul Hansell summarizing that argument:

In fact, most Wall Street computer models radically underestimated the risk of the complex mortgage securities, they said. That is partly because the level of financial distress is “the equivalent of the 100-year flood”, in the words of Leslie Rahl, the president of Capital Market Risk Advisors, a consulting firm.

But she and others say there is more to it: The people who ran the financial firms chose to program their risk-management systems with overly optimistic assumptions and to feed them oversimplified data. This kept them from sounding the alarm early enough.

Top bankers couldn’t simply ignore the computer models, because after the last round of big financial losses, regulators now require them to monitor their risk positions. Indeed, if the models say a firm’s risk has increased, the firm must either reduce its bets or set aside more capital as a cushion in case things go wrong.

There’s probably some truth to this, but the bigger truth is that the randomization underlying all monte carlo based valuation methods was, and is, not just wrong but known to be wrong. Nobody knows whether that had an impact on the problem - because nobody knows whether the resulting valuation errors were significant.

The problem is inherently complex - imagine being asked to value a portfolio of 10,000 residential mortgages issued to a total of something like 17,652 individuals. Each mortgage balances some issue amount against some payment stream; each has had zero or more payments recorded against it, each has an initial interest rate; an interest computation method; zero or more early payment opportunities; some mention of late or missed payment penalties and conditions, and an expiry, renegotiation, or call date.

The answer is, of course, that the value of the portfolio depends on assumptions you make about the future: specifically about defaults, late payments, interest rates, and reaction to market change in the value of the collateral properties. Once you commit to any one set of these assumptions there are packages as small as Excel plugins that will calculate both the point value of the portfolio for you and its likely rate of change with respect to one or more of your assumptions.

Now, because you can predict roughly the probable range for most of these assumptions but not the actual values the variables involved will have for each of the time periods you have to consider, what you do is write a monte carlo simulation in which you try tens of thousands of value combinations and plot the results to see what, on average expectations, the portfolio might be worth.

Notice, that at this point even something has large as 0.0005% error in the outcome would be completely insignificant - so randomization error should have no effect, right?

Wrong, because what the bank will do with your result is hedge by splitting two bets among many bettors: one set with people who are just basically pessimists and bet your computation is too high, and one set with optimists who think your value estimate will prove to be too low.

Unfortunately there’s no commissions money to be made in strictly off-setting risks, so banks and traders engaged in leverage - multiplying the effect of differences in the outcome by, in one example cited by Frank Partney a billion times. And, of course, errors are multiplicative.

And did IT people warn them? In general we did not - in general we acted as cogs in a wheel leaving the occasional brave quant to mutter about valuation risk while Wall Street’s IT people almost unanimously treated the garbage going in to the computational process as gold coming out.

None of that, of course, makes us big players in a debacle that became inevitable as soon as Congress mandated the moral hazard Wall Streets traders were only too happy to jump into - but the IT community was a bit player here and our collective silence, I think, buys us some share of the bottom line responsibility too.

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Topics

Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) is an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies.

Disclosure

Paul Murphy

I do not work for, or otherwise receive anything from, any of the companies I write about. I have some money in a number of funds that bet on the markets, including the technology market, but have no direct control over how these funds are administered or what investments are made. I use Sun and Apple technology both at home and at work.

Biography

Paul Murphy

Originally a Math/Physics graduate who couldn't cut it in his own field, Paul Murphy (a pseudonym) became an IT consultant specializing in Unix and related technologies after a stint working for a DARPA contractor programming in Fortran and APL. Since then he's worked in both systems management and consulting for a range of employers including KPMG, the government of Alberta, and his own firm. In those roles he's "been there and done that" for just about every aspect of systems management and operation.

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RE: The IT role in the mortgage meltdown
muzza2005 10th Oct 2008
What utter cr*p. Oh, so because IT 'must' have known about these problems that caused this mess, they are guilty as the ones who truly created it? Perhaps those in Freddie/Fannie administration (IT) saw what became of the whistleblower in Enron - welcome to Pariah City...population you. She got nothing but grief... were she to not speak out, goodness knows what bigger mess Enron might have been... here's the thing though: no-one ever gets a proportional level of appreciation for prevention of a crisis, simply because the total effects of a disaster can never be truly known until they occur; those that tried to alert the herd to disaster are ignored, and then pilloried for daring to suggest "I told you so".
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Nobody likes a Whisleblower
2copper 8th Oct 2008
You got blacklisted for publicly Whistle-blowing at a company meeting. For your trouble you lost a job, faced economic hardship, and had to explain at interviews why this employer would not give you a reference. You did not follow the #1 Rule of Business which is CYA (Cover Your Ass).
You berate the IT staff of companies that went under almost to the point of blaming them for the Enron, Worldcom, Countrywide disasters. You say that IT people are the guardians of the company data? That doesn't mean that IT admins KNOWS what that data is. Faced with the options 1> immediate termination for leaking company data, getting blacklisted. Or 2> Hope for the best. Or 3> Get a new job with a good reference before the **** hits the fan. Which one did you choose?
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I know it's hard
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
but I think we have a responsibility to the actual employer, not the bosses currently representing that employer.

So how do you take action? it depends - in many cases just quiting and taking another job would be the least wrong thing to do.

Certainly leaking confidential data outside the company is almost never the right thing to do - but talking to your boss's boss or even a board member or two might make sense.

Note, however, that going over the boss's head inside the organization usually creates personal hatreds vastly outweighing in bitterness anything you get by turning in the whole executive suite to regulators.
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Risks
Your Mom 2.0 8th Oct 2008
If you're blowing the whistle on illegal activities that are making someone millions (or billions), you have more to fear than just losing your job. Talk to the wrong boss's boss or board member and you (and your family) might find yourself wearing concrete shoes at the bottom of a lake. Or worse.

I doubt that if someone is determined to basically steal millions or billions of dollars that they'd have much of a problem with tying up other loose ends that might complicate things (like an IT guy that knows too much and is asking too many questions to too many people).
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whistle blowers are untrustworthy
lost in Texas 8th Oct 2008
You are right that technically we are employees of the owners of the business and possibly to the public if there are safety issues, etc.

But the owners do not employ us; the bosses do. The bosses will cream you quicker than a nanosecond if you blow the whistle on one of their scams. Years and years ago I made the novice's mistake of noticing that vendors to a 3-initial corporation manufacturing site were paying off the buyers with cash, drugs, and parties staffed with purchasable pulchritude. I was effectively warned by three levels of management to stop "spreading rumors". After several years of serious note taking, I got a message out to HQ who sent out some former FBI people who eventually showed that the scam went all the way to the plant manager. All the scalawags were demoted but not fired.

I was branded as untrustworthy and not promoted for over seven years.

Whistle blowers are only protected by law in the public sector but even there you have to be careful. In my current job in that sector I've already noticed that the City's capital assets are sold at auction but not removed from the books so that the net worth of the government entity actually is going up. I've already been told by my supervisor that it's none of my business.

And so it goes . .
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Bingo!
ryumaou@... 8th Oct 2008
Quote: "That doesn't mean that IT admins KNOWS what that data is."

Bingo! Look, I happen to have a business degree, but, honestly, should I be expected to understand how every report I'm asked to generate relates to the P&L? I'm not an accountant or financial planner. I'm just a network plumber, really. I make sure nothing gets clogged and that the right people can get to the right information so that they can make decisions.
That being said, if I find a discrepancy, then I'm responsible to point it out to my superior. After that, though, it's not my duty to safeguard the company from every threat. I keep the systems running and let the financial people keep the money flowing. I do what I'm good at doing and let them do the same. If they don't, well... There's a reason I always keep my resume up to date.
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Right..
TedKraan 8th Oct 2008
IT is a service/product provider..

When you go on the bus.. the bus driver don't let you get off at a stop because that happens to be a bad neighborhood?
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A vague recollection
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
Didn't some city get sued because one of its bus drivers did exactly that? (Let an obviously inebriated woman who later got raped off in an area he knew she didn't belong in?)
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Okay Murph but..
TedKraan 8th Oct 2008
Would you hire an sysadmin that sniffles through your private files?
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RE: The IT role in the mortgage meltdown
jigarsheth@... 8th Oct 2008
Correctttt
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Correct
jigarsheth@... 8th Oct 2008
Correct
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100-year floods seem to be occurring at about one a year. This must bleed over into finance as well.
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I care about the service, its reliability and availability, its ability to be operated and managed effectively, the resilience of the infrastructure, the persistence and protection of the data in the event of disaster, misadventure or plain dumbness. However I don't own the data - that is the business responsibility. If the people who paid for it, wish to drive the high performance, fully loaded ultra-reliable vehicle I helped deliver at a brick wall, it *will* crash.
There???s not much IT could have done here. It just didn???t matter.

Ultimately, it was Congress that created these monsters and had put itself on the line for the liability, and it was Congress that chose not to do anything long after alarms had already been sounded. The Wall Street Journal had been running articles and op-eds about the impending Fannie/Freddie meltdown since the late 90s. Hearings had been held and reform legislation proposed. But the Congress wouldn???t have anything to do with it. The administration which had recently failed in attempting to address the impending (and inevitable) Social Security tried to address the problem, but couldn???t get anywhere. If Congress and Americans weren???t ready/able/willing to deal with reforming Social Security, they sure as heck were not going to have the patience to understand arcane economic minutia such as repackaged mortgage financing. Having already blown all of their political capital on Iraq, the Bush Administration gave up.

The point is, if the people in power of your organization aren???t interested in the problem, there???s not much you can do.

Over the years, I???ve written plenty of software with the purpose of giving decision makers the information needed to make vital decisions for their companies. And too often, I watched what happened when those leaders got information that they really didn???t want to see from those systems. The usually went ahead and did what they wanted anyway, even if the data suggested otherwise. To many, data is just a justification for an action if it tells them what they want to hear, and just another ???opinion??? if it tells them something else. Many people are going to do what they want to do regardless.

In this case, many of the most influential members of Congress (Dodd & Frank for starters) wanted nothing done to reign in Freddie & Fannie. They were integral parts of their power base, and they would protect that base come hell or high water. Well, the high water is here, and hell is not far behind. Of course, unlike the leaders of Enron, Worldcom and others, Dodd & Frank will not be put on trail, or even made to endure seemingly endless congressional hearings where members of Congress will get to grandstand while grilling them with questions for which everyone already knows the answers. They???ll even get to keep their pensions! At worst, they???ll have to face their respective voters. The only question will be if those dumb-assess will be willing to put them back into office.
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Agreed
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
"To many, data is just a justification for an action if it tells them what they want to hear, and just another ???opinion??? if it tells them something else."

Been there, done that, got the scars.
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Video is biased
paultkeen@... 8th Oct 2008
I was kinda disappointed with the video. As a computer teacher and a history major, I was hoping to find a good non-biased video that could explain the current economic problems to my students. I was so excited to click on the link that had an unbiased view (as the article claims).

But there was a problem. This video condemns the Democrats and glorifies the Republicans. As an educator, that's bad business. You have to present a story as non-biased as possible or else you're in trouble with parents, your principal, and quite possibly your higher administration. Doesn't matter what side you favor, favoring sides in the classroom is bad teaching. Also, I feel this presents an incomplete story. It has pieces of news clips, and text in between praising one side and condemning the other.

If you want to be unbiased, that's fine. Honest opinions are a good thing. But please don't put stuff out there as unbiased when it is very clearly favoring one side.
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umm, excuse me? but I said
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
that these highly partisan presentations were close to what an unbiased person would think - not that the video was unbiased.
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Executives should listen to IT staff...
Anton Philidor 8th Oct 2008
... when that staff tells them decisions on which $ billions in revenues (and bonuses) have been staked are wrong. Because the IT staff knows the situation better than any other section of the corporation and has far better judgment.

Uhm... Murph, do you think that anything IT staff could have said would be new information or that they could supply unconsidered factors?
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It amazes me Anton how ...
p_msac@... 8th Oct 2008
you still have hope that ignorants can listen to the voice of reason and knowledge ...

They do not listen to IT staff in what concerns IT ... how can you expect them to hear IT staff about there supposedly "expert area of knowledge"...

This is also something that Must be Of Their Entire responsibility.

That people is payed (--> Shamelessly _Very_ Well payed ) to actually Know what they are doiing!
IT Staff is payed to do their work.

The last thing It should do is to give them advice and them see them smile with the profits at Zero cost ...
Anton ... are you not aware of the Capitalist system anymore ???
Financial Advice Is payed at a premium!
Do you actually propose that we IT people "give" away so hard earned knowledge for Free ???

tss tss tss tss

Regards,
Pedro
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Corrections and clarifications
Anton Philidor 8th Oct 2008
First, the issues you describe as having created difficulties for you are within your purview. But the campaign you advocate for IT staff is outside IT's brief.

Quoting:

... he had neither the authority to embark on a hundred million dollar IT redevelopment nor the skills to pull it off...
and
... his finance vice president had just told analysts about the outstanding success of a major financial systems change that hadn???t actually started yet...

[End quotes]


Second, a reporter inquired about how Treasury et al would respond to the mandate from Congress to do what the Department could to assist those with mortgage payment difficulties.

The response was that each pool of mortgages is owned by many organizations in many countries, and each would have to agree unanimously to any changes. So such action was unlikley.

One way in which the value of these... instruments can be reduced is to make the value of the underlying asset lower officially. I suspect that's why the banks have been so resistant to having mortgages rewritten in bankruptcy court.

At any rate, you were more right than you intended when you wrote:

The problem is inherently complex - imagine being asked to value a portfolio of 10,000 residential mortgages issued to a total of something like 17,652 individuals.

[End quote]

The total number of organizations with an interest in those mortgages may opr may not exceed the number of individual holders.



Third, there's a more important use of leveraging than you list.

Let's say that you make a bet on a change you know will occur. You have $1 in cash. There's a 100% payoff. You have made $1.

Now say that you use that $1 to leverage $39 in credit. Your bet is now $40. The bet pays off and you win $40. Your $1 in assets has provided you with $40 in revenue. Bonuses for all!

Of course, you will be embarassed if your creditors come looking for their $39 in credit while your $1 in assets remains $1. That's what happened.

So you were using a very limited definition of leveraging when you wrote:

Unfortunately there???s no commissions money to be made in strictly off-setting risks, so banks and traders engaged in leverage - multiplying the effect of differences in the outcome by, in one example cited by Frank Partney a billion times. And, of course, errors are multiplicative.

[End quote]

Better still, you also realize that you as company C can make a bet with company D that company A will pay back company B what A owes B.

So every failure to pay off has huge multipliers. The failure of Lehman Brothers is going to lead to a large number of people making claims against each other. Claims unsuspected by Lehman itself.



Are you certain you want to explain to executives why their decisions unrelated to IT are wrong?
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The government forced banks to make loans to people who had no means of repaying the loan (in the name of "fairness").

It started in the Carter administration with the community re-investment act. BJ Clinton added real teeth to it, and forced banks to make loans that no sane banker would make.

Fannie Mae aand Freddie Mac were cooking the books so that the political appointees in charge could get huge bonuses. And making huge contributions to politicians to kill any attemps to clean up the mess. Dodd and Obama were to two getting the most.

Government corruption and liberal economic policies are the entire cause of the problem and the current bailout plan does absolutely NOTHING to change that.
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Tinkering with a good thing
Mark Miller 9th Oct 2008
I think it was a compounding problem. Fannie Mae was created during the Great Depression to create low-income housing opportunities.

The Community Reinvestment Act in 1977 created the securitization scheme, and allowed poverty advocates to sue banks that were "discriminating" against poor borrowers. I don't know for sure, but the CRA might have created Freddie Mac, the "packager" of the mortgages into securities.

In 1995 the Clinton Admin., with a Republican congress, revised the CRA to lower lending standards. In 1999 the Clinton Admin., with a Republican congress, repealed the Glass-Stiegel Act (a Depression-era regulation) which used to ban regular banks from engaging in investment activity. The reason given was the Act made U.S. banks less competitive in the global market. This allowed regular banks to buy the securitized mortgages that are now creating bank failures, and causing the credit markets to seize up.

In 2002 the Fed drastically lowered interest rates in response to the 2001 recession and the 9/11 attacks, which deepened the recession. This began the housing bubble as mortgage rates came down to historic lows. Real estate prices steadily rose year after year as demand increased. It created a rush of buyers, because people thought housing prices would climb out of reach if they didn't act fast. Buyers were desperately trying every trick in the book to get a good loan rate, including interest-only mortgages (which made expensive homes cheap in the short term, but slaughtered buyers in the long term). As the economy improved the Fed raised interest rates, which gradually made ARMs more expensive for borrowers.

Towards the end of the bubble the mortgages were getting crazier and crazier. I heard this year some banks were offering what were called "NINJa" loans, which stood for "No Income, No Job".

In 2003 the Bush Admin. tried to introduce beefed up regulation of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, citing accounting irregularities and questionable loans. They predicted trouble in the financial markets if this was not put in place. The Democrats in congress shot it down.

The Bush Admin. continued efforts over the course of several years to increase oversight and regulation of Fannie and Freddie, to no avail.

In 2006 Sen. John McCain along with some other senators introduced regulatory legislation for the same purpose. The Democrats shot it down again. Each time they said there was no problem. Fannie and Freddie were sound.

It seems to me that Fannie Mae began life doing just fine. I think perhaps the CRA began life just fine. It seems like the trouble began in the Clinton Admin. with the lowering of CRA standards, and the repeal of Glass-Stiegel.

I think if the Bush Admin. had pushed hard for regulation of Fannie and Freddie that the Democrats would've tarred and feathered Bush as being a racist and anti-poor people. They do that anyway, but I think they would've raised holy hell, because Fannie and Freddie where their babies. It would've been like the Iraq war all over again, with the Bush Admin. trying to address a problem that hadn't blown up yet. After all, what's the difference between a problem that hasn't blown up yet and something that's not a problem at all? For the uninformed there is no difference.

My impression is they wanted to protect Fannie and Freddie from scrutiny and regulation at all costs, because a) they were good for their constituents (low income people), and b) they were sugar daddies to the Democrats.

Personally I think encouraging low income housing is a good thing, within some limits. It seemed like the system worked well for several decades. It just broke down over the last 20 years.
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No Income, No Job or Assets
Anton Philidor 9th Oct 2008
Yes, as you say, requiring banks to loan to people they would otherwise reject on economic grounds was dangerous. (And Barack Obama, with his ACORN connections, was among the advocates.)

But the main problem was buying the securities made up of mortgages of varying quality, leveraging, and risking a great deal of money on default insurance. Inappropriate mortgage lending would sooner or later have created a disaster. Magnifying the disaster produced the cataclysm.
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That may be simplistic but in my industry, it is not desirable that IT should have any knowledge of core business R&D, marketing sales or manufacturing. They provide the infrastructure for enabling those areas but should not have knowledge of the working details.

In financial institutions, IT should not have financial data directly available and should be insulated from financial policies. They're role should be to make sure the computer infrastructure works.

It is an issue of roles.
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You're really arguing for an institutional see-no-evil policy. Great, except many of us do, and did, see these things developing from the inside - and most IT people did nothing.

I'm not saying IT had a big role here or could have headed this off (although better valuations could have helped a lot). I am saying that silence is acquiesence - and often wrong.
I would agree that you don't ignore wrong IF you see it.
Nor is it a good thing to hide evil.

Sometimes though a little information is wrong information and for those reasons and others I think isolating unrelated groups to a "need to know" basis about the activities of other groups, is generally a good business practice.

Imagine an IT individual in a Law firm with only a smattering of knowledge in Law making a judgement on some data he "happened" to see.

For an IT individual to be making judgements on financial risk may not be appropriate.

Also to "suspect" something is amiss is not the same as knowing something is amiss. I seriously doubt very many in the IT @ AIG really were aware of shaky practices. For one thing, probably most of the stuff was legit and some of it may have been seen as gray. Or it may not have seemed shaky to them. It is hard to see clearly unless you are on the front lines or where you can see through the smoke.
Well We may be the keepers of the keys/data but in general the actual data is not the concern of the IT shop, Only safeguarding and availability of said data. in fact for anyone in IT to have released any information could be considered a breach of ethics.
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.
Pantalaimon Updated - 8th Oct 2008
.
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?
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
!
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The quants who wrote the programs
seanferd 8th Oct 2008
They knew, from fist principals.
Most 'IT people' are just grunts and wouldn't know one end of a Monte Carlo simulation from the other. It's only the analysts who designed the programs who were likely to have fully understood them and the implications for a company's risk management. My experience of analysts and 'consultants' at this level (25 years in the business) is that they feel a much stronger alliegance to the business managers employing them than they do to the shareholders etc.. Part of their own kudos (and marketability) is wrapped up in being part of the management team - as insiders - and complicity in all kinds of deceptions and shady practices is part of what that means.

In other words, senior IT people are the last group you'd expect to be whistle-blowers.
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Agreed
murph_z 8th Oct 2008
Pretty sad comment isn't it?
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Things are sad....
JesperFrimann 9th Oct 2008
I just got a statement from my bank (a small one) that they joined the Danish private fund to ensure that all investors got their money back. I guess that they only had to pay around 20MUSD, but they being a small bank they issued a statement that 20MUSD wouldn't affect their 2008 financial statements. Nice.
But for the IT business this crises also will lead to some changes IMHO.
Many good and sound companies will have/get a value that will leave them vulnerable to hostile takeovers/(less than)friendly mergers.
I fear that SUN is one of them, they just dropped below 4 BUSD in value. Hope they make it, it would be a poor IT world without them. Or if they get taken over that it's someone like Oracle/IBM that takes the SW business who actually will carry on their products, and Fujitsu that takes the HW business.

// Jesper who is about to sell a flat downtown Copenhagen, hopefully to a good price.
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Why not apologise?
tonymcs@... 8th Oct 2008
It's the very basis of libertarian ideology that caused this problem. Plus a hell of a lot of greed.

Next time don't complain about government regulation.
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Responsibility ...
p_msac@... 8th Oct 2008
Hi,

Murph, there are many issues that make me reply to your story today.
I think you mis-interpret the cause of the colapse ... the problem was _not only_ the "over-optimistic" assumptions or the models , and the leverage ...
But there is no time to discuss that. I am sure this will be the subject of many case-studies and PhD's in economics on How Not to Do It at banking ... happy
The issue that I can simply not agree is what IT could, or better, Should have done to "help".
The part of what we could do ... that is not the issue. In one of my project I know much more and I am much closer to the data, the data model and the theory behind it and I have to speak every day with the team of analysts ... this is something the Bank management does not even dream about.
I was going to write a comment from a very well placed person on the bank structure ... but I can not, it is not proper. I can not simply quote nobody as there are obvious reasons involved ...

The issue I can not simply agree is that you imply that IT should have helped ....

Well ... there are two problems with that:

First ... I do not work for free! No one at IT should work for free.
And IT staff is not payed to do the work of financial analysts ...
And if we can "capture" the financial problems faster them the people Actually payed to do so ... we have No Moral or Contractual or any other type of Obligation to report any of that.
There are people _Very Well payed_ to do that.
This would result in the same old pattern of the IT guy alerts, someone else picks the info and makes a great power point presentation, increasing his payment twofold ...
NO WAY!

Second:
Who Listens ???
Murph ... I have the exact same experience you have about being straight forward and it cost me Several Very Well payed projects.
In case any IT guy says something even if obvious but not aligned with current ignorant corporate scheme ... you are likely to loose your job ...
So I say! Let them burn! They asked for a system to bankrupt the enterprise in two years! OK!
One such system coming out! With Excellent performance! Very nice GUI and all the latest Ajax components happy

It is Not Our Responsibility.
It is theirs.

Regards,
Pedro
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oh phuleeze!
ca1ic0cat 9th Oct 2008
Since when have the IT people or engineers in general had the visibility to the whole of the companies doings to conclude that the place was going to go down the tubes because of a market freeze up. There might be instances where IT might have known if something illegal was going on but I doubt that IT would have had all the information in one place to conclude that the sky was falling.

Even if we did when did anybody at that level listen.

You really expect too much.
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Management provides the business rules
The Rationalist 9th Oct 2008
IT merely implements them.

Then management runs the reports, changes the outputs to support their preconceived conclusions.


Blaming IT is like blaming the maker of a scalpel if a patient dies on the operating table. If the scalpel had only been smarter, it could have known more than the surgeon, and could have had the surgeon fired for incompetence. But would a surgeon buy a scalpel that would tell him what to do if it felt it knew more than the surgeon? I don't think so.

It's like President Bush. Give him good intelligence data, but he's already made his decision, regardless of the wonderful technology and people available to them. Anything goes wrong, he blames other people. Yes there is risk, but who cares. There is money to be made.
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RE: The IT role in the mortgage meltdown
devils_advocate 9th Oct 2008
The problem is IT that does not take ownership of business results. As big or bigger than the role in financial reporting are the myriad of systems that are built to "requirements" and designs that look at features, not business results or agility. And please don't tell me about ROI - it's just another balance sheet - all the firms that failed had good balance sheets a year ago.
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A front page article in Friday's NY Times (3 Oct 2008, "The Reckoning -- Agency's 04 Rule Let Banks Pile Up New Debt," traces one of the sources of the financial meltdown to 4 investment banks being granted an "exemption for their brokerage units from an old regulation that limited the amount of debt they could take on."

The article mentioned "A lone dissenter -- a software consultant and expert on risk management -- weighed in from Indiana with a two-page letter to warn the commission that the move was a grave mistake. He never heard back from Washington." The article further mentions, "A lone voice of dissent in the 2004 proceeding came from a software consultant from Valparaiso, Ind., who said the computer models run by the firms -- which the regulators would be relying on -- could not anticipate moments of severe market turbulence."

In this case, the IT guy spoke up and was ignored. Maybe if someone seriously considered the import of what he said, we might not be in such a bad situation as we are today.
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What utter cr*p. Oh, so just because IT 'may' have known about these problems that caused this mess, they are guilty as the ones who truly created it? Perh aps those in Freddie/Fannie administration (IT) saw what became of the whistleblower in Enron - welcome to Pariah City...population you. She got nothing but grief... were she to not speak out, goodness knows what bigger mess Enron might have been... here's the thing though: no-one ever gets a proportional level of appreciation for prevention of a crisis, simply because the total effects of a disaster can never be truly known until they occur; tose that tried to alert the herd to disaster are ignored, and then pilloried for daring to suggest "I told you so".
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What utter cr*p. Oh, so because IT 'must' have known about these problems that caused this mess, they are guilty as the ones who truly created it? Perhaps those in Freddie/Fannie administration (IT) saw what became of the whistleblower in Enron - welcome to Pariah City...population you. She got nothing but grief... were she to not speak out, goodness knows what bigger mess Enron might have been... here's the thing though: no-one ever gets a proportional level of appreciation for prevention of a crisis, simply because the total effects of a disaster can never be truly known until they occur; those that tried to alert the herd to disaster are ignored, and then pilloried for daring to suggest "I told you so".

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