ie8 fix

Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Android: The Open Mobile Choice

By | February 21, 2011, 2:46pm PST

Summary: If you want real programming freedom on mobile you need to write for Android. Both Apple and Microsoft have made it clear they want to have as little as possible to do with free and open-source software.

Recently there has been a bit of a hubbub over Microsoft forbidding the use of software using the GPLv3 open-source license and all similar licenses on Windows Phone 7 (WP7). Then, the boys from Redmond realized that by the strict letter of their new rules they had just forbidden the use of some of their own open-source applications on WP7. As Homer Simpson would say, “D’oh!”

Microsoft may be slow, but they get there eventually. Shortly after their error was pointed out, they explained that some other open-source licenses, including their own of course, were actually OK on WP7. And, oh by the way, they might consider opening WP7 up to software under other licenses. That’s big of them. Apple, of course, has long forbidden the use of GPLv2-licensed software.

I was recently asked why Apple and Microsoft was doing this. The answer is quite simple. Apple, and to a lesser degree, Microsoft are all about control. You see when you buy an iPhone, iPad, or a smartphone with WP7, you’re not really buying a device, you’re renting the use of a device.

Fred von Lohmann, then a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), explained in 2010 about how Apple went about locking out FOSS, and in general outline, Microsoft does things the same way: “The entire family of devices built on the iPhone OS (iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad) have been designed to run only software that is approved by Apple—a major shift from the norms of the personal computer market. Software developers who want Apple’s approval must first agree to the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement. “

It’s not that way on PCs and servers. If you want to develop for a PC, you can do it anyway you like. Neither the operating system or computer vendor can stop you. On mobile devices, if Apple and Microsoft have their way, you’re locked into a closed eco-system.

People frequently think this is just a developer issue. It’s not. If I want to buy a Windows 7 PC and blow away Windows 7 and put Ubuntu on it I can. In fact, I usually do. If I want to use LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office on Windows no one can tell me I can’t. On a iOS or WP7 device the vendors get to pick and choose what applications I’m allowed to run.

For example, I like the VLC Media Player. VLC used to be available on Apple’s iOS, but now it’s not. The problem? It’s GPLv2 license.

With Android, on the other hand, as a developer you’re pretty much good to go. Use whatever license you like, knock yourself off. The same is true for Android users. You’ll get the broadest choice of software available under any license using an Android device.

In the future, MeeGo, like Android a Linux-based mobile may offer developers and users alike a similar array of choice. Today, though MeeGo, is still a work in progress, and although Intel has stepped up to foster MeeGo, after Nokia abandoned it to partner up with Microsoft, we probably won’t see commercial MeeGo devices until late this year, if then.

For now, though if you want an open-source friendly smartphone or tablet, as either a user or a programmer, Android is your first choice. An iPhone or WP7? If you’re like me and you don’t like dealing with control freaks, just say no.

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Topics

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it!

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
FAULKNE 13th Oct
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
tatiGmail Updated - 21st Feb 2011
Sadly, this is where the future of computing is going. Let me give you an example.

A long time ago, a small company like Firefox, could dream big. And start on a project, called the Firefox browser, and they are sure, their software will be ready to go once they release it.

Today, if you are a small company planning to develop for iOS, you have to be worried about one thing: Will my app get rejected. If so, I might lose all the resources I have invested in the project.

This might not be an issue now, but give it 3 to 5 years, once all the OSes are locked down, and the consumer will surely suffer. Imagine if we all had to use IE today, with Microsoft rejecting Firefox and chrome... Just imagine that.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
alsobannedfromzdnet Updated - 22nd Feb 2011
@tatiGmail

Except it was Phoenix, then Firebird, then Firefox, you see Mozilla had to comply with requests from people who were already using the first two names, just as Apple had to respect the request from one of the VLC license holders to remove the App store App due to the developers (of that App) non compliance with the gpl.

"Open" isn't a carte blanche licence to steal.
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Relevance?
CFWhitman 23rd Feb 2011
@alsobannedfromzdnet
Your comment, though essentially accurate, seems out of place. What does this have to do with either the story or the comment it is in reply to?
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
jeverettk 23rd Feb 2011
@alsobannedfromzdnet

Actually, the comment is inaccurate. Trademark exists for the protection of consumers and a trademark infringement has NOTHING to do with stealing, and even less to do with the topic at hand.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
ALISON SMOCK 23rd Feb 2011
@alsobannedfromzdnet
Just like how they stole their name from the Beatle's music production company?
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
bradavon 22nd Feb 2011
@tatiGmail: Good point about IE. Apple get away with this because Safari (at least on iPhone) is good, so users are happy to have choice removed but imagine if we had to all use IE. Urgh!
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
snoop0x7b 22nd Feb 2011
@bradavon The issue isn't that... The issue is Apple's market share has never been large enough to warrant an antitrust investigation into that practice. Part of the standard of proof for that sort of anticompetitive practice is using market share to thwart people in other verticals. Apple has never had that.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
Fletchguy 22nd Feb 2011
@bradavon
Safari is good? For what? Not for web browsing its as about as bad a choice to do that as anything.Safari doesnt even dispaly half the sites correctly and its slowwwwww.
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@bradavon
If safari was actually good, all apple users would use it instead of bailing out for other browsers. Thats why the safari user base has been on a steady decline for the last 3 years.
@bradavon

Do the people complaining about Safari realize that it's based on an open-source foundation, WebKit, that Apple contributed so that others could use it freely? WebKit itself was based on another free and open-source project, KHTML, that Apple essentially forked and expanded upon. The result was so good that even the KDE people who developed the original KHTML now make WebKit a user-selectable option as an engine for their Konqueror web browser. WebKit is also used in other popular mobile browsers such as Google's Chrome and the browser in WebOS. That's increased choice for users, courtesy of Apple.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
jeverettk Updated - 23rd Feb 2011
@bradavon
actually @snoop0x7b
"Apple has never had that UNTIL NOW."
There, fixed that for ya.
@JustABystander
Let's get this story straight from a non-iCrAppleholic. First off like everything from CrApple, somewhere or somehow they had to get the parts that go into both their Software and Hardware and they have never been afraid to STEAL it!!! ...or in the case of KHTML at least try to. I know iCrAppleholic are inclined to inflate the good facts and color over the Truth with Steve's RDF (Reality Distortion Field) Generators, but let's get REAL. KDE and the Open Source Community practically had to break legs to get CrApple to release any improved code (which in reality wasn't much) they brought to this FULLY OPEN SOURCE PROJECT with only CrApple Advisors working on it. There are still no fully funded CrApple Employees working on WebKit and the only thing they financed in the Project, was setting it up so THEY could be the major Beneficuary of it's Development. That all got opened up in the end and CrApple wasn't allow to just rip the WebKit Foundation off for it's KDE Technology!

Meanwhile the greatest contributor of resource and developer manpower has been Google. Followed closely by KDE themselves, and Opera Foundation. That my ignorant little iCrAppleholic is why all three of these other WebKit Browsers have gone beyond CrApple's (basically thieved code) Safari monstrosity!
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@tatiGmail

Will a single soul be willing to reimburse you for your work. As much as you want to deny things, iOS makes 2000% more revenue for their developers compared to Android.
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@Bruizer
With an app costing anything from $15k up (and more likely $40k+ for business apps), very few developers for ANY of the phone OSs will make their money back.

Just like the music industry, a very few will have runaway success, while the rest just bolter the stats. It is those runaway successes that distort the profitability. Average is meaningless, median (middle value) is probably more accurate.

Of course, Apple makes money off apps from sale 1.

The fact is that smartphones are too small a market. Better to develop an 'app' that can work on multiple devices, even downward capable devices, and have a market a 100+ times greater.
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@Bruizer And wait until the law suites against Android, multitouch etc really get started, say two to three years tops. Then where are the Android developers. Get what you can now and run!.
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@Patanjali
Bruizer Updated - 22nd Feb 2011


But the simple fact is, the average revenue per app on iOS is over $5000/year. On Android it is less than $500/year. NOTE: there are about 2X the number of apps on the App Store compared to the Market Place even though the two are roughly the same age (App Store 4 months older). I am pretty sure the distribution curve is similar between the median, mean and mode.

Given the development environment is much richer on iOS and it takes, on average, less time to get a polished app going on iOS when compared to Android...

Which would you choose?

For me, my "hobby" pays the cell phone bill, the water bill, the gas bill and the electric bill. I should be knocking off the mortgage in the next 4-6 months. Sure, I am not getting rich, but I am making some good extra money.

On Android, I would be paying for the weekly Java;-)

"Better to develop an 'app' that can work on multiple devices, even downward capable devices, and have a market a 100+ times greater."

If you believe the Android fanboys out there, Android already has far surpassed iOS (I mean, what platform offers this 15,000,000,000 devices you are talking about?)...

yet...

Monetization for developers on the Android platform remains anemic at best while iOS is a multi-billion dollar industry.

Is programming a political statement (open platform) or a potential to make a living (closed platform)?
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
ALISON SMOCK 23rd Feb 2011
@Bruizer

Is that why Rovio just made $1m revenue IN ONE MONTH on Android? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's about as much as they've made on other platforms...

http://www.intomobile.com/2010/12/03/angry-birds-android-1-million-ad-revenue/
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And ?
MisterMiester 25th Feb 2011
@Bruizer

Well the smart developer would have a two track method having applications available on both platforms due to the vast number of Android phones being activated. Seriously if a developer is making a boatload of cash on iOS then any application on the Android platform is just gravy since porting is less resource heavy then the initial cost of developement.

Ignoring a significate revenue source with reduced expenses sounds like the ramblings of a fanboi, not someone with a real business sense.
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You don't want any one OS to dominate a market
JustABystander 22nd Feb 2011
@tatiGmail

Remember that Firefox had to spring from the ashes of a defeated Netscape. When there is competition, there is a motivation for innovation and improvements. Having multiple OS's competing in the mobile space is a good thing, and having only one dominate, even Android, would be a very bad thing.

Remember what happened when Microsoft pretty much killed off Netscape as a serious competitor by making IE the de facto standard browser for the de facto standard OS. Would you want Android, controlled by a single corporation, to achieve the same level of dominance as Windows did, and perhaps Chrome to be the dominant browser in the mobile world? Or is it better to let a number of equally powerful and motivated competitors battle it out to try and capture the business of as many ordinary users as they can? Proprietary, mostly-open, or free shouldn't matter so much in the end as long as they each get to show their best stuff.
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But... But...
oncall 21st Feb 2011
I really like my hassle-free iPhone happy
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
bstringy 21st Feb 2011
@oncall I believe that's a perception issue. I use both OS's and don't see any advantage with either one when it comes to hassles, quirks, what have you.
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Sorry, did I forget to mention
oncall 21st Feb 2011
@bstringy

I also have money happy
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
bstringy 21st Feb 2011
@oncall mention that next time you are price negotiating.
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You miss my point sir or madam
oncall Updated - 21st Feb 2011
@bstringy

I am the customer with money to spend. You are forgetting that. Your, and the authors, definition of "freedom" means nothing to the customer. You don''t want my money that's fine. I can assure you I won't be switching phones any time soon happy

P.S. and in case you didn't know. Having money actually does put you in a better negotiating position.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
bstringy Updated - 21st Feb 2011
@oncall
(whisper) Hey bud, we all have money to spend. That's not what this is about. (/whisper)
How about that all star game?
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I know
oncall 21st Feb 2011
@bstringy

It's about some illusion of control you guys are clinging to like that amounts to a hill of beans in a consumer driven market. Apple, despite exercising a lot of control, still writes checks that do not bounce and it's customers still buy lots of apps. Illusion of freedom verses paying the bills. Hmmmm.
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@oncall
You forget that once a single player owns the market it is not consumer driven anymore.
Luckily Android sells more devices already so it didn't go that far.
And regarding hassle-free... a big portion of it is an image... just as pre-OSX macs crashed just as often as Win98 PCs back in the days. Actually i had less issues with my Motorola Defy than i had with my iPhone 3G.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
nitrofurano 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall there is also a huge difference between 'money to spend' and 'money to waste'
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
snoop0x7b Updated - 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall It's free as in "freedom" not free as in beer. That implies it can still cost money, provided it respects users and developers rights. Many people assume that free software means free as in price, it doesn't. It's possible for software to be free software but not have a free price tag provided it's licensed appropriately. It's just that a majority of free software is also free in price as well.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
andrewjg 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall

I am happy to spend money to. I am happy to respect the right of developers and organisations to license their creations anyway they want to. I am happy to have a device that is locked down and applications limited to an approved store. But only if the purpose of this is to prevent malicious software propagating. The app store should not be a means to exert control over the content of the application. It should not be a means to behave like the mafia and extort revenue from developers for providing a service that was not wanted e.g. in app payments only via iStore.

In this regard it is important for Android to succeed.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
jeverettk 23rd Feb 2011
@bstringy
"I also have money "

Soon parted.
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Contributr
RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
sjvn@... 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall I like the i-family too. They're the best-designed, best-engineered phones & tablets around. But, and it's a big but, they come with very tight restrictions on what you can use if you write for them, what you can run if you use them, what kind of materials you can watch on them (Flash), how much you'll pay to listen, read, or watch on them, etc. etc. It's a great walled garden, but at the end of the day, it is a walled garden.

Steven
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
kyleoster 22nd Feb 2011
@sjvn@...

This is where your true "OSS or NOTHING!!!!" beliefs just don't work.

If I'm a developer I'm going to write software for the ALL popular platforms regardless of their licensing restrictions and QOS requirements.

You know why? Because I want to make money! I want to be paid for the time I spent developing the app. Regardless of your unfounded hated for WP7 and IOS they are very popular.

You may laugh about WP7 but like Blackberry the WP7 is designed for people who don't view their phone as a toy. That's what you and other OSS people don't get and never will, or I should say this is what you and OSS people don't get and never will.

People choose the right tool for their job. That's the beauty of a free market system. That's why Craftsmen/Makita/Bosch/DeWalt are all in business. You don't see whole websites setup tracking what the CEO of DeWalt does yet their products are just as important to many industries as Microsoft's or Apple's or HP's.

You FOSS people for some reason turned Linux into a movement in a time when people are completely tired of movements and just want what works best for them.
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Overstating the value of unlimited openness
JustABystander 23rd Feb 2011
@sjvn@...

When you criticize Apple for not being perfectly open, you fail to fully consider whether being perfectly open is actually desirable all the time. Windows on a PC is a very open platform, allowing people to do pretty much anything they want. But in practice, that openness has allowed the PC platform to become a constant struggle for many people in keeping their systems productive and secure from the problems caused by poor software design, badly interacting software components, and malicious attacks of all kinds.

Since Apple can't reengineer how people think and work, the sensible approach was to try and reengineer the way commodity computer systems behave to relieve ordinary users of the ills they commonly encounter with the wide open PC environment.

You also overstate the extent to which Apple's approach is a true walled garden. They make the default experience one which protects the overall user experience of ordinary users, but still allow people wanting more to enjoy significant freedoms with their purchases. In other words, while there are walls present, there are also a number of clearly marked doorways that allow people to do almost anything they want.

For example, it's not really correct when you claim that there are very tight restrictions on "what you can use if you write for them." The restrictions are not much different than what you face when writing for any other API-based programming environment. Android is the same way. If you want to develop for Android, you have to program to the APIs that Google provides, and at some level you have to use the development language they have provided (Java running on Dalvik). Apple makes their APIs for the platform available from Objective-C, so that is what most platform-specific parts of an app will be written in. But other non-platform specific parts, such as libraries and additional software components can be written in many other languages.

It's also not correct to claim that there are very tight restrictions on what you can run. The standard app store experience gives ordinary users exposure to an unequaled variety of apps to choose from, in both free and paid choices. To call this highly restrictive is not really being fair. In addition, their are also options available for users to easily acquire even more apps that are not available on the app store. Users are always able to use the free development tools provided by Apple, along with either a developer's license they register for themselves or one from someone they know, to build and install whatever software they want on devices they own. If they want to take the step of legally jailbreaking their device, they can skip even that step and simply download apps from open repositories such as Cydia. Once again, an example of a walled garden with a number of open doors.

Finally, Apple can't even be said to have placed great restrictions on how much people will pay to listen, read, watch content on their devices. Apple's approach has always been to let content providers decide how much to charge people for getting content from its various digital storefronts. In the case of apps, many developers have chosen to provide a number of apps for free. For content that is paid for, Apple takes a fixed percentage of 30%. Contrast that to, for instance, Amazon's approach. Amazon dominates the publishing world, and has extended its reach into distribution of digital content with efforts such as the Kindle. In Amazon's case, they don't let the content producers determine the price of goods on Amazon's storefronts, but sets the price to what Amazon considers a fair market price. For all this, Amazon still takes at least 30% of the purchase price, and sometimes more depending on conditions that Amazon sets. Amazon is much more restrictive concerning the pricing of content than Apple is, and unlike Apple is in a dominant position in many publishing markets.

A few walls aren't always a bad thing, especially when there are plenty of doors for people to stroll outside when they want, as well as plenty of windows to provide clear views of everything else that's going on outside. Then you might actually have something resembling a welcoming home.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
hiraghm@... 24th Feb 2011
@sjvn@...
The archaic term I recall from my youth is "gilded cage".

A Gilded cage... is still a cage.
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Moral of the Story is ...
MisterMiester Updated - 25th Feb 2011
@sjvn@...

Reminds me of a childhood story:

The Dog and the Wolf

A gaunt Wolf was almost dead with hunger when he happened to meet a House-dog who was passing by. "Ah, Cousin," said the Dog. "I knew how it would be; your irregular life will soon be the ruin of you. Why do you not work steadily as I do, and get your food regularly given to you?"

"I would have no objection," said the Wolf, "if I could only get a place."

"I will easily arrange that for you," said the Dog; "come with me to my master and you shall share my work."

So the Wolf and the Dog went towards the town together. On the way there the Wolf noticed that the hair on a certain part of the Dog's neck was very much worn away, so he asked him how that had come about.

"Oh, it is nothing," said the Dog. "That is only the place where the collar is put on at night to keep me chained up; it chafes a bit, but one soon gets used to it."

"Is that all?" said the Wolf. "Then good-bye to you, Master Dog."

Better starve free than be a fat slave.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_aesop_dog_wolf.htm
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You missed the point
Software Architect 1982 Updated - 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall You missed the point of the article... This openness and freedom DOES effect the end user. For example, I can (and have) downloaded an app on my Android to let me tether. No, I didn't have to ask permission and no, I don't have to pay an extra monthly fee for that. There are also apps to turn my phone into a wifi hotspot. There are whole classes of apps available for Android that you can't get in a walled garden like iOS and WP7. It affects the end user in a dramatic way. Just because a user doesn't realize what they're missing out on, doesn't mean they're not missing out on it.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
non-biased 28th Feb 2011
@Digital Video Expert "Just because a user doesn't realize what they're missing out on, doesn't mean they're not missing out on it." And just because you say they are missing out doesn't mean that they care in the least about what they are missing. I have also downloaded an app to my iPhone that allowed me to use it as a hotspot without any additional monthly fees. It was on a jailbroken iPhone but as mentioned above, there are doors you can use to walk out to the garden. What most here do not realize is that the "walled garden" they harp about is of no concern to the average consumer. You know the group, they are the ones buying smartphones and tablets by the tens of millions.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
Fletchguy 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall
Did you get one of those iphones that makes calls? i heard a few slipped out to customers by mistake but Steve Jobs was going to just use the kill switch on those and tell the apple sheeple they need to buy a new $699 iphone 5.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
littlemas2 22nd Feb 2011
@oncall I don't have money, but I have a friend who does and he always gives me his discarded iphone (I now have a 3gs). I like it alright (okay, I admit I use it constantly), but I just spent time with another friend that has a Sprint EVO. I have to say I was quite impressed. Other than the easy of podcasting with itunes (and I think I could get that to work with the EVO if I wanted to) and a slightly brighter screen on my iphone, I did not see a great deal of functional difference for me.

If I had to buy my own equipment, I would probably look for an Android device. In fact, if my friends stops giving me his "old" stuff, I will almost certainly try to get out of the closed Apple universe.

My system is not quite as closed as I had to jailbreak and unlock the iphone to get it to work on T-mobile. I have some cool tweaks that make my iphone better (for me at least) than a stock iphone would be.
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@oncall
Its been my experience that those who openly claims they have money...generally don't but wishes they have more so that they can be loved and respected. hmmmm thats pretty much the iphone user base. In desperate need of attention.
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Hm, where to begin?

I guess you don't mind missing out on time with your friends and family because in 2011, Apple is selling a phone that doesn't issue periodic notifications that you've missed a call or have a voicemail. How do you explain the idiocy that results in a phone that chirps once, seconds after you miss a call, and never again? Stands to reason that if you missed the call, you're going to miss that one blip. And your phone will continue to sit on its charger right next to you, silent. Or in your pocket, silent.

Then there's the fact that, several years in, Apple is still forcing everyone to manage the data and applications on these portable Unix computers with A JUKEBOX APP. And a poor one at that. The continued reliance on iTunes to do everything there is to do with iOS devices stands as a major embarrassment to Apple. It's inept at its primary purpose, but even worse at managing a mobile computing device.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
non-biased 28th Feb 2011
@dgurney Funny, I have never had an issue with not realizing I missed a call. I also don't need to use iTunes if I don't want to. I have to use it for iOS updates but apart from that I only use it to backup my phone. Imagine that, wanting to back up your phone and having a piece of software that does it for you in less that 30 seconds, just embarrassing isn't it.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
hiraghm@... 24th Feb 2011
@oncall

Another prime candidate for the nanny-state.
"I don't want control of (and therefore responsibility for) my life. I want a hassle-free life..."

We've become a nation of James Wilsons, as remembered in the musical "1776":

Wilson:
"I?m different from you, John. I?m different from most of the men here. I don?t want to be remembered. I just don?t want the responsibility! "
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Do you develop anything?
tonymcs@... 21st Feb 2011
If I use MS development tools, I'm using the best on the planet. I also get to target my software at PC, Xbox and WP7. Just a quick comparison between apps on the iPhone, Android (though which version is a problem) and WP7 shows the difference. WP7 apps look sophisticated, elegant and professional, the others, for the most part, don't.

I'm sure you can knit with telephone poles, just like you can develop with Android's and Apples appalling development systems, but why would you?
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@tonymcs@...
Visual Studio is nice but i still prefer Eclipse since it lets me develop on most systems (Windows, Linux, Mac) and for most systems (Embedded, Server, Web, Android).
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Allows you freedom. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The only part that I miss about VS is some IIS integration features and Entreprise Library features for exception handling. Other Team and MS features are easily ported with plug ins to Eclipse.
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Eclipse is a RPITA
Bruizer 22nd Feb 2011
@sovok_

I just got off an Eclipse based development project and, while I liked parts of it, the tool chain as a whole was lack luster. It was not nearly as busy and clumsy as VS but VS had a much better system on the whole.
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RE: Android: The Open Mobile Choice
snoop0x7b 22nd Feb 2011
@Bruizer You've gotta try netbeans dude... Better GUI builder, better enterprise tools, less bloated, more coherent UI.
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@snoop0x7b. Was not a Java project.
Bruizer 22nd Feb 2011
Lots of the world out there is not Java based thank god.
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