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Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java

By | November 10, 2010, 6:48am PST

Summary: With no money and no muscle, Oracle could be left with a proprietary technology everyone has abandoned

The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) has issued an official threat to leave the Java Community Process if Oracle doesn’t play fair with it.

The action was an overhang at last week’s ASF North America conference in Atlanta, which I attended, but it was surprising to see it happen so soon.

As noted by ASF president Jim Jagielski in my interview with him last week, Apache believes it has no choice here but that it also has a strong hand.

Java’s acceptance as a standard is based on its being open source. Much of that credibility comes from various Java projects initiated by the ASF. The ASF representative was recently re-elected to the Java Community Process (JCP) executive committee (EC) with 95% of the vote while an Oracle nominee was rejected.

Google can no longer support Java given that Oracle is suing it, and they were “the money” behind a lot of what was going on. The ASF was the muscle.

With no money and no muscle, Oracle could be left with a proprietary technology everyone has abandoned, as Unisys found when it sought to assert its rights to the .gif file format in the 1990s.

The official statement is couched in the passive and careful language Apache is known for. There’s also an FAQ for those who need some background on the controversy.

But here’s the money quote:

The ASF will terminate its relationship with the JCP if our rights as implementers of Java specifications are not upheld by the JCP Executive Committee to the limits of the EC’s ability. The lack of active, strong and clear enforcement of those rights implies that the JSPA agreements are worthless, confirming that JCP specifications are nothing more than proprietary documentation. (Emphasis mine.)

Mr. Ellison, your dice.

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Topics

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for 30 years, a tech freelancer since 1983.

Disclosure

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a journalist, writer and part-time futurist for over 30 years.

At the present moment I run only a personal blog in addition to my ZDNet open source blog.

DanaBlankenhorn.Com has the subtitle The War Against Oil. In the past I have used it to write about political history, e-commerce, personal matters, some ideas related to open source, and The World of Always On, which is the idea of using sensors, motes and RFID to turn WiFi links into platforms for applications which live in the air.

My IRA account at Schwab holds a few tech shares, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials, but there are no open source companies in it. I don’t even own any CBS stock.

Biography

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for nearly 25 years and has covered the online world professionally since 1985. He founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media, and has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement, and dozens of other publications over the years.

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Is Larry Ellison mad?
gjafg 14th Nov 2010
He must be dumb to not know the damage he will cause Java, or maybe he doesn't care. He just wants to pocket a big bundle of money from suing Google, and then let Java shrivel up and die.
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IP patents have been dished out for simple concepts and to companies just because they are big. We must begin to unwind these nonsensical IP patents.
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@DiggityDoug - I could not agree more!
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I would agree that if the 2 big proponents (Apache and Google) are jumping ship, then Oracle will be holding a paddle on a ship filled with rats that no one else wants to play on.
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Is Larry Ellison mad?
gjafg 14th Nov 2010
He must be dumb to not know the damage he will cause Java, or maybe he doesn't care. He just wants to pocket a big bundle of money from suing Google, and then let Java shrivel up and die.
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I smell the hand of M$ agents here
Linux Geek 10th Nov 2010
I'm sure the moles are working to undermine JCP by deceiving and spreading FUD from the inside.
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Yes, THAT must be it...
Qbt 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek

Wow, can't you stand on both of your feet and not blame MS for everything? Seriously, you are a joke.
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@Qbt where is smoke, there is fire too!
Not far fetched for M$!
@Linux Geek: where is smoke, there is fire too!

And maybe some credibility too.
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RE: where is smoke, there is fire too! . . .
JLHenry Updated - 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek

The only smoke I smell is the what's coming out your ears . . .

In the words of the Immortal Great Rabbit: What a Maroon!
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Not far fetched for M$!

I agree. They have deep enough pockets for spreading FUD.
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@Linux Geek I don't know about FUDing but I see they seem to be trying to take advantage of the situation. F# has been open sourced under an Apache license. The .Net community now has a package management system like Maven. I would not be surprised to see other moves to attract fleeing Java devs and companies using it.

Personally I'd like to see either a new community form around a better VM based language or tools and libraries spring up around something new like Go. Honestly if weight was thrown behind Parrot and everyone could pretty much use their language of choice to build libraries that can be called from any other language on the VM that would be ideal.
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@storm14k
M$ stealing F# code from Apache validates my point of its evil deeds.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
ItsTheBottomLine 11th Nov 2010
@storm14k Wow do you two play with your toys together while his mommy makes lunch.
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@Linux Geek - dude ... seriously ... do you even know what F# code looks like? Have you even seen any? If so, you'd know that F# has about as much syntactic or structural relevance to Java as Prolog does to C.

You REALLY need to get out more.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
Hallowed are the Ori 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek

I smell the Mad Dog 20/20 you've been drinking.
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@Linux Geek

Get a life.
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Good god...
cornpie 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek ...for an article on the relationship between Oracle and ASF, we got to an anti-Microsoft rant and continuation of the flame war/death match on only the second comment.
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Since Java is virus who cares who kills it.
Reality Bites 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek - Java has been a steaming pile of excrement from first line of garbage code to the last.

It sucked when it was released and it sucks even more now.
What is surprising is, it wasn't written by MS. happy
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
ItsTheBottomLine 11th Nov 2010
@Linux Geek WOW - and you actually can feed yourself. Hey you know what -they are all aliens from space and it's a big plot to take over. Go back to your Star Wars and Lord of the Rings toys.
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@Linux Geek

Ya, ya. And ASF members are so gullible as to believe any such FUD.
What you're using SUCKS!
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@ye I'm about to have a heart attack! I actually agree with you! ZDNet's layout and features of its forum truly does suck.

It's set up, now, to get more clicks. It's harder to skip/avoid threads of trolls, and harder to find older posts.
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Mr. Ellison, your dice.
daikon 10th Nov 2010
Dana, I think Ellison is doing that right now with SAP lawsuit.

If a company (Oracle, Mr Elison) has private detectives looking for HP CEO Mr. Apotheker to force him to testify, Ellison will gamble just about anything to make money.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
DanaBlankenhorn 10th Nov 2010
@Linux Rocks What avails a man to own the whole world yet lose his soul? The aim of the exercise is not just to control everything and make money for yourself. It's to build a better future.
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Build a Better Future?
twaynesdomain 10th Nov 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn ... For themselves only because it's nearly always at someone else's expense.
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@DanaBlankenhorn innovation is for weenies that you shove around and later buy for 10 cents on the dollar.
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@DanaBlankenhorn Go through the early history of Oracle! Makes Microsoft (Actually put in any large hard-hearted company) look like angles!

Larry sold his soul years ago!
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@Linux Rocks SAP has admitted its wrong-doing. Since Apotheker was part of the situation, his testimony is relevant and possibly necessary.
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Oracle needs leaf from Microsoft's book.
peter_erskine@... 10th Nov 2010
They both have pretty bad management style, but Oracle's is actually worse. It will eventually reach a point where, like Microsoft, they'll have to at least PRETEND to be nice.
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So no one here realizes that Oracle bought Sun for the sole reason of making a profit using these oportunities to litigate/extort money?
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
dcnblues Updated - 10th Nov 2010
@bnielander

Well that WAS their strategy.

But this is basically a major back-handing across the face from the ASF, to wit: if Ellison wants to "own" Java, then he can take on supporting it, developing for it, and all else that the open source community has done FOR him (at no charge) up to this point. Also, no one will USE "his" platform, for fear of high usage fees/legal actions, so essentially he can stuff it and mount it on his wall as Yet Another oracle Dinosaur.
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@bnielander ... It is/was kind of obvioius, eh? After all, what matters to them other than the bottom line? Loyalty and customer satisfaction ALWAYS follows lower on the list, assuming the PR dept will keep it all sounding nice & cozy.
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@twaynesdomain The company I was working for won't touch MySQL for that very reason.
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@bnielander Oh I fully realized that. Scot McNealy has always talked about how big Sun's patent portfolio is and how no one screwed with them. Oracle wanted to capitalize on Java first and foremost and secondly on the patent portfolio, I don't really think it was ever about vertical integration of sparc servers into Oracle-database appliances at all.
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JAVA the virus application spread by SUN hopefully will now die the horrible obscurity it and it's retarded developers have deserved from day one.
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What about Python??
maxtheitpro 11th Nov 2010
@Reality Bites
Can't they just ramp up Python's codebase to do what Java does well?? Me thinks this is a BIG chance for Python to cease the day.
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I'm not surprised by any of that activity. ANY business has as its top mantra to make money at all costs, while the rest is left to the boys who "pretty up the news" around it. Why are people so darned myopic these days? Everyone seems to be either a follower or a trouble-maker. Where at the actual good guys, assuming they still exist?
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I never did understand why Java changed hands from Sun to Oracle. Sun is still around and Java was their and Scott McNeely's baby. Why would Oracle have been interested in it? If Oracle was planning on taking Java proprietary, I have one term: Microsoft Visual J++. It was a monumental flop.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
dcnblues Updated - 10th Nov 2010
@chas_2

Oracle bought Sun Microsystems, and inherited Java as one of Sun's many 'properties' (nevermind it was held as an open-source standard 'sponsored' by Sun).

And Java isn't the only casualty of this acquisition. My company uses a LOT of Sun servers, and we've seen hardware support go downhill since the purchase. Sun used to be extremely helpful with all of our issues; Oracle support 'pushes back' on nearly everything, forgetting that we've paid a lot of $$ for service contracts on the hardware.
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I'm glad I stuck with python
davidr69 10th Nov 2010
I've been thinking about switching from pylons and flask (+sqlalchemy) to a J2EE container. I think I'll stick with python a little longer unless if something more compelling comes along. I couldn't quite convince anyone to install Mono on their Linux servers.
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@davidr69 I don't know why anyone would WANT to build enterprise apps with Mono... .NET runs better on windows anyhow and is more complete that way, and .NET's ugly.
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Oracle sucks.
cameigons 10th Nov 2010
If ASF really does drop JCP and java language, what language/platform will they embrace next? I may as well start studying it today.. happy
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@ya Forums bite! Why would you want a crack smoking moderator dictating what should or shouldn't be posted? When You could simply avoid censorship if you use a little professional courtesy by making comments or questions directed towards the author or authoress.
Waves @Dana Blankenhorn I enjoyed The Apache way meets the Oracle way as well as part2 Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java.Terrific writing covering all my favorite software.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
DanaBlankenhorn 11th Nov 2010
@cybursoft I appreciate your kind comments, and share your technical concerns. Unfortunately I don't run this railroad. I'm just the piano player in the dining car.
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Hi all,
I'm new to Java and i have just started learning it and planning on taking the Oracle exam certificate. Is Oracle up to something with Java? should i focus on another technology?
This made me thinking and anxious.
Thanks and sorry for being off topic.
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RE: Apache drops the hammer on Oracle over Java
erik.soderquist 11th Nov 2010
@bApTizE

i'd focus on something else... or at least delay. ASF may follow this up with spearheading a fork if Oracle doesn't start honoring the obligations they've already put in writing...
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maxtheitpro: this could be a great opportunity ..
thx-1138_@... Updated - 11th Nov 2010
@Reality Bites ..for not only Python but for any number of similar language - base-code - dev' teams to step into the void when JAVA is dropped like the lead weight it has become.

I could see this coming a mile away .. as soon as Oracle acquired proprietary rights to J, the game was up for the open source innovators (en masse mind you). This turn of events was simply a logical progression.

When some jumped up monkey with a pack of tweed wearing attorneys tries to muscle into open source this is exactly what oughta happen. Litigating against the very people that utilize the source code - and innovate while doing so - is the height of corporate audacity. The ASF and related parties have the mandate here to take the initiative back. The strong arm, meat headed, actions of Oracle are about to backfire and this has all the signs of leaving ash in Oracle's (..Ellison's) mouth.

When that day arrives (..and not a moment too soon) .. Larry .. good riddance .. you paper hanging *** ** * @#%&* (Excusez, s'il vous plait, mon francais)

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