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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney
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Eclipse launches super run-time project as alternative to Java and .NET

By | March 17, 2008, 8:54am PDT

The Eclipse organization has amassed a huge installed base of developers using its Java-based open source development tools. Now the organization has set its sights on the run-time arena and will take on Sun’s Java and Microsoft’s .NET with what it says is an agnostic open source component model that runs across multiple operating systems and computing tiers.

At EclipseCon 2008 in Santa Clara, Calif on Monday, the project leaders announced the Eclipse Runtime project (Eclipse RT) an initiative to build an open source run-time technology based on its own Equinox, a lightweight OSGi compliant run-time. Equinox, the core run-time platform for Eclipse, is not new. The run-time is used by Actuate, BEA, Code 9, Iona, IBM and Oracle and is reportedly deployed on millions of developers’ desktops. (the announcement comes three days before the vernal Equinox

What is new is the overarching effort to unify the organization’s many run-time projects including Equinox, the Eclipse Communications Framework, EclipseLink, Rich Ajax Platform (RAP), Riena and Swordfish into a unified project and establish a consistent open source run-time and component model that runs across all operating systems and computing tiers.

Developers have build many rich client platform applications based on Equinox and more recently the run-time has been used as a server platform for Ajax aplications, web services and client/server applications.

“There’s no consistent component model across all tiers — desktop, server and mobile — and all platforms,” Eclipse Foundation Director Mike Milinkovich, noting that Microsoft’s .NET is cosnistent across tiers but lacks multi-platform support while Sun’s Java is good at cross-platform support but has different component models on servers, desktop and mobile devices.

Eclispe also introduced what it says is a new Component Oriented Development and Assembly paradigm that not only offers a consistent model that spans across all computing tiers and operating system platforms but that also provides more flexibility in assembling and customizing applications and a viable integration mechanism for customers, vendors and partners.

Eclispe also launched today a new Equinox community portal on its web site to educate developers on Equinox, OSGi and related Eclipse runtime projects.

It will be interesting to see how Microsoft and Sun respond to the Eclipse run-time announcement. Sun offered no official statement on Eclipse’s announcement today but did announce the release of a beta version of its IDE NetBeans 6.1 that provides better support for open source scripting technologies and tighter integration with the MySQL database it purchased earlier this year.

Interestingly enough, Eclipse’s Equinox announcement comes three days before the vernal equinox, the precise moment when the center of the Sun can be observed directly above the earth equator.

Seriously, though, do you think Eclipse is right on with its Equinox initiative and what will this mean for Eclipse’s Java-focused developers?

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Topics

Microsoft .NET, MySQL, Java, Eclipse, Eclipse Organization, Equinox, Run-time, Java Development Tools, Open Source, Development Tools, Software Development, Software/Web Development, Paula Rooney

Paula Rooney is a Boston-based writer who has followed the tech industry for almost two decades.

Disclosure

Paula Rooney

Paula Rooney owns no stock in the companies that she covers. She holds a 401K that is managed by Morgan Stanley.

Biography

Paula Rooney

Paula Rooney has covered the software and technology industry for more than 20 years, starting with semiconductor design and mini-computer systems at EDN News and later focused on PC software companies including Microsoft, Lotus, Oracle, Red Hat, Novell and other open source and commercial software companies for CRN and PCWeek. She received a silver award from the American Society of Business Publication Editors in 2005 for her profile on Linus Torvalds and edited and co-authored "Partnering With Microsoft," a book about Microsoft's channel published by CMP Publishing in 2004. Rooney graduated from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism in 1997. In her off time, she enjoys scuba diving, sailing, sun worshipping, running, reading, surfing (the net) and hanging out with her family. She resides on the shores of Scituate, Massachusetts.

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Cobol still alive, and pays
sysop-dr 15th Oct 2008
It doesn't pay nearly as much a cobol does.
Factor of 10 increase in pay if you can program (well) in Cobol.
View in thread
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Equinox is a great ideea...
Linux Geek 17th Mar 2008
but I'm wondering if Eclipse has the resources to pull it off. Afterall $un and M$ invested billions before their runtime became usable and accepted.
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No one trusts IBM...
linux_lover 17th Mar 2008
Eclipse has lost the trust of the community at this point, it's
under IBM's iron grip, and it seems like everything it touches
turns into incredibly complexity. Equinox seems no different,
it's dead on arrival.
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Wait a minute? Why do we need this?
Heatlesssun1 17th Mar 2008
I thought that was SOA was supposed to help abstract? Common object models sound great on paper. In reality, they add a LOT of complexity.
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For 2 reasons...
zkiwi 17th Mar 2008
1) Because it can be done (people will always try to do it).
2) It might actually be a good thing, getting the best of the Java and .Net approaches working under the one banner.
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2 real reasons
sysop-dr 15th Oct 2008
.NET works great on my phone, my desktop and my web and file server, but it won't work on anything not Windows (like my cluster, my Linux webserver or my wifes phone) and it runs the same on them all that it does run on.
Java runs on everything, but on every different platform it's a different flavour of java, me, ee, se ...
Equinox will run on them all, and the same on them all. One code runs everywhere not one code runs on all my Windows boxes or one code with alterations on everything.
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No way this takes off...
Mike Cox 17th Mar 2008
Most developers I know enjoy the richness of Visual Studio and the elegance of .NET. Cross platform is not important as most other platforms are dead or dying. Really, anyone at this stage of the game ought to just cede their markets to Microsoft and move on.
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9.5 .....
Linux_4u! 17th Mar 2008
Succulent, VERY succulent. Guarantied to catch some fish ....

A CLASSIC MC if there ever was one !!!
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Ha Ha Drum roll....Is that you Mike Cox
D T Schmitz 17th Mar 2008
Oh Wait...it IS
Never mind.
0 Votes
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9.5
John L. Ries 18th Mar 2008
I'm surprised that you know any developers that use something other than VS or that develop for platforms other than Windows (this would call your loyalties into question).

Seriously, MS has been discouraging portability for years (that was the real purpose of the "Windows compatible" logo programs of years past, but never as bluntly as you put it here.
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Yes. 9.5. Looks like his had a talk with his rep. (nt)
hkommedal 18th Mar 2008
nt
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Visual Studio...
Spiritusindomit@... 18th Mar 2008
Is the entire reason why .Net succeeds. .Net itself isn't much better than java, just a large update of the same concept. That and it lacks annoying concepts like 'everything is a method.'
0 Votes
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I have a better idea...
DarkPhoenixFF4 18th Mar 2008
Rather than ceding stuff to Microsoft, maybe you should considering buying your brain back?
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His rep. has the majority of the shares in that, so he has
hkommedal 18th Mar 2008
to be careful. He could risk that his rep. goes for a complete hostile takeover. We don't want that to happen, do we ?
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it's not Mike's fault that
royalstream 21st Mar 2008
all other development environments suck if you compare them to Visual Studio. They really do. Not much anybody can do about that.
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He's Back
OldMarine 19th Mar 2008
Well Mike I see your's your same old self.
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Huh?
sysop-dr 15th Oct 2008
Mike, this is an eclipse story. If all the guys you know only use .NET how do you even know what eclipse is?
Now take it that microsoft does not own the web space, given that they have such a low percentage of the space, your "facts" are based on bad data so just sit in the corner and stay quiet for a while and you might actually learn something!
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Nonsense
croberts 17th Mar 2008
Any solution that uses that Java legacy crud turns me right off, especially after reading the blogs the other day about how domain origin can be circumvented.

Java is done. It might be cross platform, but it's done because it's trying to be a language and an environment at the same time.

My take, the answer will be some sort of native-emulated environment like VM ware or Virtual PC machine that will launch to allow a web app to interact with the user. When the app is done, the VM dies and get re-created for next time.

Most basically, this would look a lot like a chroot environment that is dynamically refreshed each time you launch a browser session, with multiple environments for multiple sessions.

A more moderm way might be something like parallels with coherence. Your browser runs in a virtual world and the window are fully integrated into the desktop OS.
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So..
zkiwi 17th Mar 2008
How do you intend to code for non-windows platforms, and in particular I'd emphasize server-side stuff?
0 Votes
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Things would probably be easier, certainly different
croberts 17th Mar 2008
Since you have a whole virtual environment to code to, basically any languange code could be downloaded on request via the browser.

You want an AJAX-style wordprocessor? It's coded in C or C++ or Ruby or whatever and the source is downloaded and compiled on demand in the VM.

All that would be missing for a web environment is a common window-ing library and some a basic common I/O API.

Code gets downloaded, compiled on demand, and poof, a nice Desktop OS-integrated window gets created for the user to interact with.

The security model would be much easier, essentially changing from worrying about the desktop OS getting compromised to limiting the virtual environment's world-view (network sockets, printing, etc)... sort of .NET security style to use one possible example.

I think this is the way to go ultimately.
0 Votes
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The security model would be...
zkiwi 17th Mar 2008
The real sticking point in all this.
0 Votes
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Must be a joke
eutrilla 18th Mar 2008
Really. Equinox, as almost the whole Eclipse, is implemented in java and uses its standard libraries. How can it replace the JVM?

Anyway, I've read the press release (http://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20080317_Equinox.php) and they don't mention anything about being a replacement for either java or .NET.

In my opinion it is just another layer on top of java standard libraries. The JVM will provide the cross-platform environment, and Equinox (a OGSI implementation in Java) the component oriented approach. Describing it as 'super runtime' seems quite odd to me.

So how will it affect the Java-oriented Eclipse developers? The answer, in my opinion, is that it is equivalent to the release of Spring or Guice. At most.
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Elcipse, Python, and Django are the wave of the future
pcguy777 18th Mar 2008
btw.. i like visual studio and expression web too.

all of them ... great tools.
0 Votes
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Python
Spiritusindomit@... 18th Mar 2008
Needs to go. As do all script based languages.

I can't abide expression web, it's klugey and barely an update from pagemaker. Visual Studio is currently the best IDE on the market though.
0 Votes
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You have no idea of what you're talking about
wiseman1024@... 16th Apr 2008
First of, for scripts, ask George Lucas. As for programming languages sometimes misnamed scripting languages (which is an oxymoron), you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Dynamic languages such as Python offer a degree of magnitude more features than Java and an actually usable standard library (unlike the grossly overengineered, obscenely bloated lump of "professional scalable five-nines enterprise turnkey multi-tier synergy best practices business solutions" the Java standard library is). You can be about 10 times more productive with Python than you are with Java, but you don't seem to be remotely aware of this.

Try, for example, an implementation of quicksort in Java (your own, not the standard library's). In Python, I could bind a variable to such a function with an expression as simple as:

qsort = lambda s: qsort([x for x in s[1:] if x = s[0]]) if s else []

Here, as opposed to the usual Java methodology of having to define classes, using who knows what god-awful factory classes and instance half a dozen new objects to get anything done, I've used merely a lambda expression - an exprssion which creates an anonymous, lexically scoped first-class function object, built-in lists with slicing operations and list comprehensions, without even having to use the standard library. I wrote it like I write my name; it took just seconds to get it right. These are all things a language Java can't even dream of.
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RE: Eclipse launches super run-time project as alternative to Java and .NET
balsover 18th Mar 2008
IBM is attempting to take ownership of Java. Isn't this exactly the type of behavior that people accuse Microsoft of? Is it acceptable because it not MS but instead it is IBM is doing it? Pretty soon there will be XYZ Java just like there is XYZ Linux only it won't work as well as it did for Linux.
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Contributr
Not an alternative to Java or .NET
Ed Burnette 18th Mar 2008
Equinox is not an alternative to Java, since it's a layer on top of the Java virtual machine and class loading concepts.

I wouldn't even say it was an alternative to .NET. It would be possible to put something very similar to Equinox on top of the .NET virtual machine, though I'm not aware of anyone who has tried it.

Equinox is an implementation of the OSGi standard, both of which have been under development for several years. There are other implementations, like Apache Felix, so there is no vendor lock-in.

"Eclipse RT" is simply an organizational change with a nice marketing spin, a reshuffling of existing Eclipse projects. Most new projects get put under the "Technology" top level project at eclipse.org. Some never see the light of day, and some graduate from "incubator" status and get moved somewhere else.
0 Votes
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What difference does the programming language make?
Jim-MN 18th Mar 2008
"Seriously, though ... what will this mean for Eclipse???s Java-focused developers?"

If I understand the point of this article, it should be a non-issue for anyone doing any development in Eclipse, since there will surely be a build option for Equinox just as there is one for Java. In fact, one could write in any language for which there is an Eclipse plug-in, and deliver it via Equinox, right?

Jim
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RE: Eclipse launches super run-time project as alternative to Java and .NET
crypt2121 18th Mar 2008
Just what I need, another paradigm.
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RE: Eclipse launches super run-time project as alternative to Java and .NET
rkostynu@... 18th Mar 2008
my only 2c is this.....

we are a manufacturer who makes very complex engineered products...

we currently develop software using .NET...why .NET? because we have Windows boxes...why Windows boxes? because we have expensive/complex engineering software (FEA/CAD/CAM) and MRP software? why expensive engineering/MRP software? .... Because we make money as a company by selling complex engineered products NOT software...

my point is most companies who do not sell software but develop it as a tool for their business want something that is reliable, quick to develop/test/deploy so they can make money selling their products...

Java and .NET both allow this to happen...I prefer .NET/VS/SQL Server combo, but Java (with some other add-ons) has its benefits that make the two stand side by side in comparison

what benefit is this 3rd piece going to add besides multi-platform??? who cares which platform? (unless you are a startup company deciding on which computers you are going to buy to run your business maybe)

most every business I know already has invested thousands if not hundreds of thousand of dollars in computer systems...multi-platform is not the issue, very productive tools that allow a business to succeed is the answer which both $un and M$ have done..
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Not so simple
green alien 18th Mar 2008
Maybe for your development environment, multi-platform is not important at all, but for several industries it is of strategic value and a must-have. But.. "expensive/complex engineering software" in Windows?? Are you kidding? Heh - and using .NET? Well, after the Vista thing, everyone I heard still using Windows engineering software are migrating to Mac or Solaris, or other Unix. Serious engineering software ever = UNIX + C. Just my 2c.
0 Votes
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So Mike it is true
jimk_z 18th Mar 2008
Java has become the Cobol of today?
0 Votes
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Cobol still alive, and pays
sysop-dr 15th Oct 2008
It doesn't pay nearly as much a cobol does.
Factor of 10 increase in pay if you can program (well) in Cobol.
0 Votes
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Equinox and Java explained
eutrilla 19th Mar 2008
Please, have a look at this interview with the Equinox project lead: http://java.dzone.com/news/eclipse-equinox-fulfilling-pro

This does much more sense than the original article in this page, which I have to say seems to me a not well informed extrapolation of the original press release. Indeed, there's a nice picture of the stacks of several environments, in several O.S... and confortably seated in top of the JRE. So its not an alternative to Java at all.

PS: To all those who think Java is dead and that Windows is the one and only O.S.... C'mon, wake up. There are more computers out there than your desktop.

PS2: Maybe you'll use it, maybe you don't, maybe we don't need yet another framework/paradigm. But it's always good to keep in touch with new ideas. OGSi has been gaining momentum in the last months, and although I don't believe for a moment that the integration of components will be as easy as they promise, in principle the concept seems sound to me, so it may be worthy to have a look at it.
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Eclispe? watch for the typos man
royalstream 21st Mar 2008
Eclispe? watch for the typos man
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Its always the same story, I remember when
royalstream 21st Mar 2008
they used to say XML was the next big thing and it was going to replace Java.
Yes, it sounds ridiculous now but that's how new technologies are taken, especially by non programmers.
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Eclipse' Day in the sun long gone
rtenhove 1st Apr 2008
Eclipse has seen better days. It is now bloated, and directionless. Should my IDE also supply (and mandate) a run-time? I'd rather the NetBeans approach, which is far more platform neutral. OTOH, I do like OSGi, although Equinox has quite a few flaws...

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