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Google China fail

By | June 29, 2010, 6:13am PDT

Summary: Can a nation take over the world economy while prohibiting all thoughts it finds uncomfortable? If this is the century of China it’s the sunset for freedom, a sunrise for corruption, and those like Steve Forbes who prefer comfort to liberty deserve neither.

Google is about to be kicked out of China, unless the government accepts what one Chinese site is already calling a “fake front.”

At the company’s blog, chief legal officer David Drummond writes hopefully that “many of our Chinese users…have been vocal about their desire to keep Google.cn alive.”

Google is correct in that. It has many Chinese fans. But these may be precisely the people the government aims to demonstrate its authority to by kicking Google out, which it can do by simply refusing to renew its ISP license tomorrow.

Google’s “fake front” idea is that Chinese users could use the new page to access popular, non-controversial Google services like music and language translation, but would do their searches from Hong Kong, without censorship.

This new approach is consistent with our commitment not to self censor and, we believe, with local law. We are therefore hopeful that our license will be renewed on this basis so we can continue to offer our Chinese users services via Google.cn.

Since Google decided to stop censorship in China, its stock has fallen in value by nearly 25% while that of its Chinese rival Baidu is up 75%.

It has gotten little support for its stand from American authorities, either Democratic or Republican, with Forbes writing the Drummond post “will surely irritate Chinese authorities” and it’s “hard to imagine that will be enough to please authorities.”

Forbes is right. But then it only promised to be a capitalist tool, not a friend of human liberty.They only came for Google and Steve Forbes still had Bing so he said nothing.

This is a very basic conflict. Can a nation take over the world economy while prohibiting all thoughts it finds uncomfortable? If this is the century of China it’s the sunset for freedom, a sunrise for corruption, and those like Steve Forbes who prefer comfort to liberty deserve neither.

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Google Inc., Government, Vertical Industries, Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for 30 years, a tech freelancer since 1983.

Disclosure

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a journalist, writer and part-time futurist for over 30 years.

At the present moment I run only a personal blog in addition to my ZDNet open source blog.

DanaBlankenhorn.Com has the subtitle The War Against Oil. In the past I have used it to write about political history, e-commerce, personal matters, some ideas related to open source, and The World of Always On, which is the idea of using sensors, motes and RFID to turn WiFi links into platforms for applications which live in the air.

My IRA account at Schwab holds a few tech shares, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials, but there are no open source companies in it. I don’t even own any CBS stock.

Biography

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for nearly 25 years and has covered the online world professionally since 1985. He founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media, and has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement, and dozens of other publications over the years.

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RE: Google China fail
JACOBSONR 14th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
View in thread
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Us hides uncomfortable information all the time...
mrlinux 29th Jun 2010
Who really Killed the Kennedy's
Area 51
Roswell
Teslas papers that were confiscated @ the time of his death by the FBI.
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RE: Google China fail
TxM2xTx 29th Jun 2010
@mrlinux And the weapon of mass destruction has been found in our very own Gulf of Mexico. Not much is being done about it. People still let their kids bathe in the sea, let them get hooked early is what it looks like to me. Bah!
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RE: Google China fail
gorians Updated - 8th Sep
world economy while prohibiting all about it is bank that website attacked from the site support from any soldier site to the light home page is great thoughts
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RE: Google China fail
hayneiii@... 29th Jun 2010
It is the Chinese who will decide if they want the freedom that Google represents or not. It is not our choice. If the freedom we offer does not let us continue more rapid advances in science and knowledge, the the Chinese system works better and should win out. I do not believe that to be the case. Freedom of thought makes capitalism much stronger than the lack thereof.
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RE: Google China fail
raycote 29th Jun 2010
@hayneiii@...
"It is the Chinese who will decide if they want the freedom"

WRONG!
It is the military dictators who decide not the chinese people.
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RE: Google China fail
aep528 30th Jun 2010
@raycote

You missed the point, I think. The Chinese people are allowing the dictatorship to exist. It is up to the Chinese to stand up to and change their own government.
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Don't Judge a Book By it's cover...
k4kaliazz 1st Jul 2010
@aep528 - it is you who missed the point. The inside picture is very complex. China spends enormous amounts to upgrade its weaponry. Much more than what it shows to the world.

The internal conflicts give it more headache than international ones. Only a fraction of all the people in any country are brave enough to rebel. Most there in China, are feeding off the economic prosperity and prefer to remain to remain silent. To generate the revolution, information is passed under the table. But China has a very sophisticated system to censor the system.

So, anything, in my opinion, that can make majority to rebel, is economic deprivation. China has an export-oriented market. If some other country provides equally cheap labour, it could be in for some trouble but that is not for a decade or so.
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Wow!
arthurborges@... 5th Jul 2010
If you think 1.3 billion Chinese are looking to Google to champion their freedom, it's lots like imagining that 60 million Italians are looking to Pizza Hut to teach them how to cook.

China will solve her Chinese problems the Chinese way in function of 5,000 years of her own history.

While Chinese take a sincere interest in how other countries handle their own messes, when it comes to the comparable issue in China, aliens are politely invited to butt out because they the local streetsmarts to achieve a minimum of credibility.
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Rayote & EAP528
arthurborges@... 5th Jul 2010
1. What works best for China is centralized government; US-style "states' rights" simply doesn't work here. Indeed, Western commentators fairly accurately term periods of decentralization as government by warlords.

2. China has under 20 ICBMs capable of targeting the Continental USA -- they are about 80 km from Zhengzhou where I teach. The DF-5 missiles are 1960s technology that take 30 min. to fuel with supercold liquid propellants and the warheads are stored in a separate facility. Check it out at the website of the Federation of American Scientists.

The arms spending on weaponry aims to deny US military access to Taiwan if ever push has to come to shove: the US would do as much for Puerto Rico, which also has its share of nationalists serving long terms in Federal pentitentiaries.

For the record, the US operates just under half of the world's entire arsenal of weaponry and US arms spending was (last time I saw the figures) 47% of the world total -- before special appropriations for the Iraq, Afghanistan and wherever, but including 75% of the DoE budget that goes into nuclear weapons development, plus veterans benefits and other items entered under budgets other than DoD's.

If you want to throw in NATO member arms budgets, you reach 90%+ of total arms spending.

Note too that the USA consumes 25% of world resources with only 5% of its population; if you include Europe, you can double the figures.

Tell me now, isn't there something obscene about this?
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Well, I have to give Google some credit.
iPad-awan 29th Jun 2010
They [Google] fooled a lot of people into thinking they're not evil. They made a big stink about how they're protecting human rights... how they're going to stand up to Big, Bad China for the little people, etc... but when they think no one is paying attention they'll crawl back to China begging for forgiveness. When will people realize that Google is a company of Blowhards?
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RE: Google China fail
raycote 29th Jun 2010
@iPad-awan
Never mind Googles flaws they are still on the right side of this issue!
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RE: Google China fail
asj 29th Jun 2010
@raycote

No, they're morons because they think a multinational company can stand up to an entire nation. FAIL.
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You just gotta shake your head
frgough 29th Jun 2010
In one rant, the blog author goes on about the evils of China for suppressing freedoms, and in the next rant blasts Americans who are opposed to state mandated health care. It just proves the adage that the tyranny that makes you feel morally superior is the tyranny you embrace.
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RE: Google China fail
raycote 29th Jun 2010
@frgough
What total ideological clap-trap!

Democratic governments debating and then voting to enact mandatory programs that can still be democratically reversed by further democratic debate at a later date is in no way comparable to pervasive, global, centralized, censorship by military dictators!
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RE: Google China fail
asj Updated - 29th Jun 2010
@raycote

hmmm..China is NOT a military dictatorship. It's a one-party system that works actually better than the mess in government we have in the US today, where no one agrees on anything, half of the country hates the other half, everything is done REALLY REALLY slowly (bridges in china gets fixed in a week, here it takes months...i mean, REALLY people), and where policies change every 4 years.

Plus, I don't see china gallivanting around the world invading other countries, overthrowing democratically elected leaders (which the US has done in central america), and engaging in slavery and what could be interpreted as part genocide just a hundred or so years ago.

FAIL.
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well once gain im amaze by how people can mix idea ....
Quebec-french 29th Jun 2010
@frgough

What is the point mixing the idea from healthcare and freedom in china ....

Healthcare is about not leaving ANY body not covert by insurances .... And those who oppose universal healthcare by stupidity or cupidity or lack of brain matter would prefer that a rather significant portion of american society if left without coverage and yes if people wanna rant again those persons that fine and even more it should be praised ......

China and censorship is a complete other matter . a government who choose to censorship its population for all or what ever reasons ..... Its there own choice .....


Dont mix idea and worst dont put stupid adage about tyranny because there no tyranny involve

TYRANNY under Webster
1 : oppressive power ; especially : oppressive power exerted by government
2 a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
3 : a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force
4 : a tyrannical act workers who had suffered tyrannies


Most stuff under that healthcare question was voted on by elected people period
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RE: Google China fail
asj 29th Jun 2010
@Quebec-french
Do you know that you can get BBC, CNN, etc, etc in China? I travel there regularly and get cable and internet of all the news just like here. All this shouting and chest thumping is about censorship mostly of PORNOGRAPHY, plus falun gong and tiananmen square. BIG YAWN.

Before you guys TALK, maybe you should actually know the PARAMETERS of the situation.
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RE: Google China fail
DanaBlankenhorn 29th Jun 2010
@frgough I'd forgotten about that. Forbes' opposition to health reform. Of course Steve's grandfather hated FDR, too. BF Forbes was wrong about 1933, and his grandson's wrong about 2009
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FDR was no saint either
klumper Updated - 29th Jun 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn

FDR was also wrong about a lot of things. That sword cuts both ways. This nation has been paying for some of FDR's excesses (socialism bordering on marxism) ever since. It's the trumping of heavy handed government (especially of the federal stripe) over free enterprise and the principles of laissez faire.

From those early FDR initiatives, we have gone on to become the international keystone cops, and our once productive free enterprise class have largely morphed into international conglomerates and one world capitalist evangelists -- all of whom seem bent on turning us all into nameless, faceless numbers.

All hail socialized political correctness, with Hollywood and our darling mass media cabal out in front! Toss in borders without fences or controls for good measure. With soon to be (if they could have their way) Esperanto for all!
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Thanks everyone for proving my point
frgough 29th Jun 2010
You'll all go out of your way to defend the state telling me how I must handle my health care because, well, we voted in the tyranny, and, hey, we can vote out the tyranny, and, hey, it's for our own good.

Like I said. The tyranny that makes you feel morally superior is the tyranny you embrace.
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RE: Google China fail
DanaBlankenhorn 29th Jun 2010
@frgough The "tyranny" that makes you feel morally superior is the tyranny you can overthrow any November.

It's not tyranny. It's democracy. Gee, weren't we lectured on that for 8 years just recently? I think we were.
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It's ultimately OUR failure
klumper 29th Jun 2010
This is a very basic conflict. Can a nation take over the world economy while prohibiting all thoughts it finds uncomfortable?

Since the multi-national capitalists, with American corporate moguls at the vanguard, have chosen to hand over the world economy to the Chinese Marxists to manage, they can learn to abide by Chinese rules and law to boot. It's only the short term greed of western corporations and the international banking class that prevents them from seeing past this basic fait accompli reality. Not that all of them care, mind you. [Ha! Don't fool yourself]

It's also the height of irresponsibility to be constructing such aberrant arrangements en masse to begin with, particularly as it regards our long term commercial prosperity, but what's new? The cats leading the charge are lining their pockets like never before, all at the expense of the common citizenry, who are viewed as little more than (contemporary) peasants, so all is good! Modern feudal lords live on hilltops and in exclusive gated communities, reminiscent of the castles of yesteryear, complete with protective moats (only now fabricated of steel, and buttressed by reams of electronic security).

SOS. And such is life.
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You do realize, of course, that a business cannot deal
frgough 29th Jun 2010
with another nation without the consent of that nation's government. So, instead of blaming business for China's economic tyranny, why not look to your government. Or better yet, look in the mirror, since the goodies you demand from the state have resulted in China owning us.
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Look below for response
klumper 30th Jun 2010
@frgough
As is so often the case now, my response would not "take" where it otherwise should be in the thread. [!]
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RE: Google China fail
VoicesInTheHead 29th Jun 2010
Everyone who talks of the lack of freedom in China, are you really concerned about Chinese residents or just echoing your 'foreign policy'? Would anyone of you list the 'freedom' that you have that the Chinese dont and what you have ever achieved using that freedom of yours? Please dont mention Facebook and Youtube and Twitter. These freedom things make me laugh.
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RE: Google China fail
asj 29th Jun 2010
"in no way comparable to pervasive, global, centralized, censorship by military dictators! "

hmmm..China is NOT a military dictatorship. It's a one-party system that works actually better than the mess in government we have in the US today, where no one agrees on anything, half of the country hates the other half, everything is done REALLY REALLY slowly (bridges in chian get fixed in a week, here it takes months), and where policies change every 4 years. FAIL.
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RE: Google China fail
<DotNETXpert> 30th Jun 2010
stop buying made in china
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Only partly
klumper 30th Jun 2010
@frgough
You do realize, of course, that a business cannot deal with another nation without the consent of that nation's government. So, instead of blaming business for China's economic tyranny, why not look to your government.

That's but another dual edged sword, in that it cuts both ways. Considering our capitalist (business) class in many ways owns (by funding and staging the elections of) our government, I'm not sure how easy it is to differentiate and neatly segregate the two -- though you seem to have no trouble doing so. This same "business friendly" environment seems to chug along whether the RepubliCONS or DemocRATS are steering the ship.

I'd argue it is more a weakness of modern "democracy," especially of the representative (constitutional republic) stripe, than an issue of "your" government or "mine," where the clutch for personal aggrandizement seems to have displaced any higher notions of civic duty and responsibility.

Have you noticed how practically every measure of "success" today is defined by how many acorns one can squirrel away? Of course once you corpse-crawl closer to the stratosphere, it can fortunately be managed with legal (bordering on criminal) counsel and a team of well placed, international bankers.

Or better yet, look in the mirror, since the goodies you demand from the state have resulted in China owning us.

Again, only partly guilty. Putting aside the welfare state the socialists in power have helped engineer, I suppose it can be argued we all > partially benefit from the production of scab (outsourced) and dirt cheap (sweat shop style) labor. However I was perfectly content with the resultant bounty as it emanated from American mass production only a generation or two back. I thought we all were, but the newfangled evangelists in the both the media and corporate world bespeak of realities otherwise today (particularly of how we all stand to benefit from the growing one world order).

IIRC, Henry Ford invented mass production as we know it, which was the envy of the world only a short time back. Moreover, it was brought to realization right here on American shores, by American workers and American thinkers. We didn't need the Chinese - let alone the Mexicans - to pull it off back then, no more than we needed the Japanese to provide for our heavy industry needs, from steel to every bulk commodity beyond.

Now we're in the slow but steady process of handing over our computing and IT edge, that is, if broad minded elitists like Bill Gates (and an endless cadre of corporate clowns with deep, deep - and ever expanding - pockets) can ship it out quick enough to their -- oops -- OUR benefit. [oh silly me, there I go again mixing things up] sad
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Why would I tell what I think after seeing a full page of empty postings?
arthurborges@... 5th Jul 2010
???
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RE: Google China fail
Zub29 9th Aug 2010
My human rights music website is banned in China, what about the Chinese who might want to read it???

www.freedomforchina.blogspot.com
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RE: Google China fail
MACKENZI 11th Sep
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RE: Google China fail
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RE: Google China fail
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RE: Google China fail
SATURNINA 14th Sep
I think the representation of this article is actually superb one. This is my first visit to your site. Thanks a lot and keep sharing the information. Keep updating the information for all of us. Thanks ZDNet Government was launched as the brand's first industry vertical, with a mission to cater to IT professionals in the public secto I agree with your post. However, do you have any sources I can cite for my paper wheel car com bury
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RE: Google China fail
TOCCAR 25th Sep
Well welcome, hopefully you can become a vital member of the community and really help to push far ahead of google. Which Im sure the development team would love. This will of course earn you alot points too and get you on the leaders board. z d n e t t h a n k Im not sure i come to an agreement with you on every level, howevor it absolutely was a good posting, many thanks for taking the time to put up your ideas.
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RE: Google China fail
MCKNIGH 26th Sep
Thanks nice info z d n e t I really liked your current article write more..let me add you to its favorite The articles you have on zdnet s i t e are always so enjoyable to read. Good work and I bookmarked it.
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RE: Google China fail
MEJIAHA 30th Sep
Fantastic news about the new release.I positively enjoying each little bit of it and I have you b o o k m a r k e d to check out new stuff you weblog post.Im not sure i come to an agreement with you on every level, howevor it absolutely was a good posting, many thanks for taking the time to put up your ideas
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RE: Google China fail
JACOBSONR 14th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.

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