Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Is Linux FOSS or open source?

By | November 9, 2010, 5:44am PST

Summary: FOSS activist Alex Oliva says GPL Linux is actually open core, which he terms “free bait.”

The Linux offered under the GPL carries a few surprises under the hood.

Specifically it contains some drivers and adapters whose use is restricted, through language in the code, to regular use with specific hardware.

To Brazilian FOSS activist Alex Oliva (right) this violates FOSS principles to such an extent that it renders Linux open core.

Actually he has a more loaded term for it — “free bait.”

One could argue that Oliva is selling something other than a concept here and you would be right. He’s the maintainer of Linux-Libre, a version of the kernel that strips out these “non-free” components.

Maybe he’s right. Maybe Oliva is pure as the driven snow while Linux is just Ivory Snow. (One of my high school phys-ed teachers once chased diapered kids blindfolded in a commercial so he could utter the tag line “99 and 44 one hundredths percent pure.” )

But what if he is? Fact is there are companies like Keyspan and Broadcom that are so paranoid they want some legal protection in the code base, and so naive they think that will change behavior. The Linux Foundation has decided that access to this code, enabling Linux to run with specific peripherals, was worth the compromise.

I agree.

Another important point is that Oliva is deliberately conflating FLOSS and open source. I made that mistake on first taking this beat, and Richard Stallman personally set me straight, so let me pay that forward.

Free, Libre Open Source Software (FLOSS) is not at all the same as open source. FLOSS accepts no compromise with its copyleft principles. Stallman firmly believes that “freedom isn’t free,” meaning it carries obligations, like the one to share enhancements to code you are freely given.

Open source is built for business. There are a variety of open source licenses, but one thing they all have in common is that they’re “permissive,” and don’t carry those copyleft obligations.

It’s ironic that over the last five years the GPL, with its copyleft obligations, has become very popular with businesses. One reason is they could subject it to “open core” ideas — keeping the secret source proprietary in order to sell support subscriptions while enabling maximum community participation.

I sometimes think of FLOSS and open source as being like Catholics and Protestants. Brazil is a Catholic country. (Maybe Oliva sees open core as liberation theology — liberating money from users’ bank balances.)

But it also needs to be said that Linux remains under the GPL, and even Stallman himself hasn’t moved to excommunicate the Linux Foundation for the “sins” Oliva describes. Maybe Oliva’s piece is a gentle nudge toward having him do so.

Whatever, the bottom line is I’m delighted. It’s wonderful to see new people, from new places, engage in these debates. New blood is a most welcome thing. I hope Mr. Oliva comes to Atlanta some day and we can see if there’s any good feijoada in this town. (My treat.)

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Topics

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for 30 years, a tech freelancer since 1983.

Disclosure

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a journalist, writer and part-time futurist for over 30 years.

At the present moment I run only a personal blog in addition to my ZDNet open source blog.

DanaBlankenhorn.Com has the subtitle The War Against Oil. In the past I have used it to write about political history, e-commerce, personal matters, some ideas related to open source, and The World of Always On, which is the idea of using sensors, motes and RFID to turn WiFi links into platforms for applications which live in the air.

My IRA account at Schwab holds a few tech shares, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials, but there are no open source companies in it. I don’t even own any CBS stock.

Biography

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for nearly 25 years and has covered the online world professionally since 1985. He founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media, and has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement, and dozens of other publications over the years.

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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
Tble 14th Nov 2010
@Justin James

And should I not have the right to do *whatever I want* (so long as no one else gets hurt) with the fruits of my labour, including licensing my work under GPL? Whining about being able do what *you* want with the "fruits of your labour" is null and void because the GPL restrictions only apply if you are making a derivative of another person's work previously licensed under the GPL. Who cares if you build your own original work? You can license original works however you wish. But demanding that you be able to license a derivative of other people's works under more restrictive terms and conditions is infringing upon the copyright and intellectual property of the previous contributors who have agreed to license the fruits of their labour under the GPL. You have no rights upon other people's intellectual property, let that be certain. In fact, demanding that you be able to do whatever you wish with THEIR work is damaging their intellectual property and infringing upon their rights. Now that's your hated Communism for you.

You've just shot yourself in the foot.
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"Specifically it contains some drivers and adapters whose use is restricted ... "

Would you provide some examples?
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 9th Nov 2010
@7mgte I mentioned Keyspan and Broadcom, both of which have these notices in the kernel code.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
Socratesfoot 10th Nov 2010
@7mgte Video drivers mostly. ATI and NVIDIA both have proprietary drivers you have to install to linux, but there is an entire repository of restricted drivers a linuc user can "turn on" and incorperate into their kernel.
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Well...
statuskwo5 9th Nov 2010
Considering that Linux would be useless without proprietary drivers, I say they are very important when it comes to Linux adoption. Tell a person that he or she can't play their favorite MP3 songs, open DOCX documents, or even watch DivX movies and they will seek alternatives. Why do you think Ubuntu offers proprietary drivers for download? It is to make it on par with Windows and Mac OS X, plain and simple.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
twaynesdomain 10th Nov 2010
@statuskwo5
Of COURSE they're important! Especially for those who run SW for which there are no plans to 'nix enable it, and no 'nix drivers for it. The same goes even more for hardware!
In my case it's a problem with both HW and SW: no 'nix capability and no drivers; I check about every 3 months. I will not spend mucho $$$ simply to change to another OS. Either the drivers become avalable or I'll never use it, unless of course, MS can find some way to successfully force me out, which is a possibility I recognize and watched happen in China. If MS can give them the OS for $35, they can damned well do the same for us!!
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So, protecting IP is paranoia
frgough 9th Nov 2010
And is a vain attempt to change behavior. Talk is cheap. Stop copyrighting your articles.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 9th Nov 2010
@frgough Copy attends when you hit publish.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
ricegf 10th Nov 2010
@frgough "Stop copyrighting your articles." Your comment is off-target, because the GPL is *based* on copyright - copyleft simply fails without it. A more accurate (but less pithy) demand would be "Publish your articles under a Creative Commons share-alike license." (You lack moral imperative to make such a demand, of course, but you can at least avoid attempting to skewer with a club.)
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To each his own ...
George Mitchell 9th Nov 2010
I think the really important thing is to have a dividing line between the two. Those who for whatever reason want a pure lily white version of Linux with no IP encroachments should be able to find and use such a product. For the rest of us who actually don't mind paying for software now and then, there should be an enhanced product available as well. In fact, I would like to see much more of the open core concept. This so called "free bait" concept allows me as a user to get the most useful capabilities of the proprietary world for free and, by extension, often allows me to buy more of that capability if I need it. I really LIKE that concept and, personally, see nothing evil about it. I USE proprietary applications on my Linux boxes and would use more of them if they were available.
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GPL isn't "free"
Justin James 9th Nov 2010
NEVER let RMS dictate your terminology. The guy is a nut.

Reality is, GPL'ed stuff is "free as in beer, not as in speech". GPL and other copyleft licenses are just as restrictive as anything Microsoft or Oracle uses... just that they are restrictive in different ways. Microsoft tells me, "you can't do that", GPL says, "you can do that, but then you need to do this."

Your mistake here is accepting the Stallman "freedom isn't free" argument.

The only truly "free" licenses are the copyfree ones such as Apache, BSD, and MIT licenses. They have true freedom attached to them, without the shackles of either the closed source world or Stallman's enforced wealth redistribution. Stallman is essentially a Communist, with a thin veneer of anarcho-capitalism laid on top to hide it.

J.Ja
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 9th Nov 2010
@Justin James I disagree. I do think that the fourth freedom is an important concept.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 9th Nov 2010
@Justin James I also think labels like "communist" are an easy dodge, a way to dismiss someone and their ideas without giving them serious consideration. I've seen enough of that in politics and it saddens me to see it in tech.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
Justin James Updated - 9th Nov 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn It's simple. You may feel that the "fourth freedom" is important. I can agree in large part that it is important. But DON'T call it "freedom". It is *not* freedom. As you say in your summary of it in an article you wrote a while back, it is an "obligation". You have the "freedom" to work with GPL or not work with GPL, but once you choose to use it, don't try renaming an "obligation" a "freedom". That's sophistry of the worst kind.

I usually dislike labels like "Communist" as well, particularly since they carry so much emotional baggage. But in this case it is quite accurate. Stallman and the GPL encourage a form of wealth redistribution in which any work I do is forced to be shared with others, regardless of my wishes, the moment I let my efforts out the door.

J.Ja
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
tonymcs@... 9th Nov 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn

But only in America Dana. I don't care if he's communist, socialist or idealist. In fact if he's socialist, I'll at least listen to him.

Don't think the US hate labels of the month translate world wide wink
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
ricegf 10th Nov 2010
@Justin James "Stallman and the GPL encourage a form of wealth redistribution in which any work I do is forced to be shared with others, regardless of my wishes, the moment I let my efforts out the door." It does no such thing. You can do any work you wish, and neither rms nor I nor any other GPL advocate gives a flip.

What you CAN'T do is appropriate MY GPL'd work and pretend it's yours. That's what really has you in a snit.

Nobody's forcing you to play in the GPL arena. If you won't share, go play in a permissive arena instead. We simply don't care. But at least stop calling people names.

J.Ja
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you are the ignorant and nuts
rarsa 9th Nov 2010
@Justin James
First: RMS can define the terminology of a concept he coined.

Second: Uhhh, a communist, one of those that eat children? how scarry. (translation, grow up and know what the term really means). Have you even read his essays to label him as such?

The fourth freedom (or freedom 3): is the freedom to create and distribute modified versions as you wish. That is a freedom for the recipient of the code. And accepting that he accepts the obligations. So, yes, the license is restrictive. It restricts taking advantage without contributing back.

I cannot imagine where we would be if Math or Language were proprietary or even BSD-like.
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GPL Is Definitely "Free"
CFWhitman 10th Nov 2010
@Justin James
Your position is that freedom has to be absolute. Of course licenses like the BSD or MIT license are free. They give you absolute freedom to do what you want with the code.

However, the GPL is also a free license. The fact that you have obligations regarding redistribution does not make it not free. In the real world nobody is free to do whatever they want with no restrictions, no obligations, and no consequences. In order for one person to have this ability, everyone else would necessarily lose the ability. In order for people as a whole to be free, there have to be some limitations on the freedom of each individual person. Obviously, one person can't be free to kidnap, imprison, murder, or steal because that would interfere with the freedom of those upon whom he perpetrates these crimes.

Slightly less obviously, one person can't be free to park across a public road and block traffic so that others can't get through. This would be much less reprehensible than the crimes mentioned, but it still cannot be tolerated for very much the same reason (just to a lesser degree) as the serious crimes cannot be tolerated. The fact that you are restricted from doing this does not make you not free.

The GPL is based on the same principle. The only restriction it places on those who wish to redistribute code released under it is to not restrict the freedom of others to continue to do the same thing that they are doing.

Of course if you release code under a BSD style license, that code is free as well, but there is no obligation for future code made from it to continue to be free.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
gnufreex 11th Nov 2010
@CFWhitman

Nicely said. What Justin James want is power. GPL gives you all the freedom you need, and RMS is right, it is freedom.

But JJ wants power. BSD or MIT license is no more free than GPL. While GPL gives 4 essential freedoms, BSD has:

Freedom #5: Freedom to watch someone ripping your work and competing against you with your own code.

Freedom #6 Freedom to get sued by ex-contributor for patent infringement, even though it is his code that is infringing (since BSDL has no patent grant, this is completely legal).

And how are those freedoms? They are not freedom for those who are on receiving end. Those who rip off and sue are ones who might like those "freedoms", but that doesn't make it more of a freedom than "freedom to do evil". Real phrase for that would "power to do evil".

This is nicely documented here:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/freedom-or-power.html
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@Justin James: Its nice to see people like you still live in your Cold War world. People like you who feel that unlike Dana who believes that both free software and open source bring something to the table are so blinded by hatred that they need to exteriorize that anger by insulting someone.
Some would call you a sad pathetic man. I, on the other hand, wont.

I work on a few GPLed FLOSS projects and we have paid contributors that work for these reknowned american communists sympathizers, IBM, Intel and the Dept of Defense. The latter Im sure is anarcho-capitalistic as well.

We try to teach our children that in life you have to be able to debate. To defend one's ideas and beliefs does not mean childish behavior, it does not mean taking someone else's beliefs as a personal affront to your own.
Its like with homosexuality. Its not my cup of tea by a longshot but what you do in your bedroom has never entered my mind before, so why should I care?

The same with the GPL. Why should you care?
Is someone forcing you to join a project against your will?
The GPL is like any little club. If you want to join, you are asked to follow a few basic rules. If you dont like some of them, then you are welcome to not join and no one will care.
You act like the guy who is trying to score with some chicks and then calls them lesbians when they reject them.

You cant abide to some rules, whether its no spitting or cursing, no wearing boots on the gym floor or following the conditions of the GPL. So right away you feel rejected and hurt that such a large group of people dont have your view of the world, therefore they are all metaphoric lesbians in your eyes.

I could spend hours analyzing your rant simply because ive met tons of guys like you both at conferences and on IRC.
Youre like the guy who goes to gay gatherings and tells them that they are sinning. The type who thinks debating whether something is called a freedom or an obligation is important. (I call it a responsability but I could care less about what someone calls it). Or that using the 'wrong' definition is grounds for personal attacks.
Ive seen guys like you and even worked with a few for a while but they are more trouble and time consuming than they are worth and will suck your time until they prove that 'they are right'.
Ive seen the best like ESR drone on and on and on about this which license is freer for years
and my interest in this is right up there with ?How many angels can you fit on the tip of a needle??


I think that guys like Oliva and RMS, Moglen, Jeremy Allison and rest are necessary for both open source and free software and I think that proprietary apps like Skype and Opera and Google Earth should be equally at home in Linux as native apps.
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There is an engineering need to use the manufacturer's drivers for hardware products that need drivers. Use the wrong driver and you are in dangerous uncharted territory.
I would not want my drivers telling my user that the attached product (not mine) was working fine when it wasn't - or not working when it was, or worse. So I would not want my drivers used with the wrong hardware, nor would I want the vice-versa.
So a notice saying only use this software with the hardware it was designed for makes total sense to me, whether it is an engineering advisory, an FAA directive or a legal notice. It does not make any sense to discourage the use of a product with such a sensible requirement.
I really don't mind being told not to fiddle with driver code, and that it is an extension of the hardware and its warranty. And I really do appreciate it being there. And it being there makes me another potential purchaser.
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Justin James
DanaBlankenhorn 9th Nov 2010
I keep being told "freedom isn't free." Well is it or isn't it?

We have obligations to maintain our freedom. People die for our freedom. That's political freedom I'm talking about.

Software freedom doesn't require you to die, but paying freedom with freedom is, in the views of those who wrote the GPL, a small price to pay for the freedom visible software offers.

Permissive code permits you to rip off all others who contributed, by holding improvements hostage to the market. Is theft "freedom?" GPL advocates would call it that -- theft. And greed.

Personally I accept both views. I prefer the GPL view -- it's a more level playing field for both sides of the software transaction. But to call that "socialism" while spouting about freedom is, in my view, wrong-headed.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
Justin James 9th Nov 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn Dana -

I *never* said "freedom isn't free". Freedom *is* free... until someone else attempts to impose their will upon another. The only reason why (in the political realm) people have to die defending their freedoms is because someone else has tried to take it away from them.

"Permissive code permits you to rip off all others who contributed, by holding improvements hostage to the market."

This statement makes no sense. If I release a piece of code under MIT license (and I've released a fair number of little utilities and such under MIT license, so I'm dogfooding here), there is NO WAY I can view what anyone else does with my code as "ripping me off". Period. End of story. Why? Because I have made the deliberate choice to allow them to do whatever they please with that code. They can build a commercial product and make billions on it. They can use it to build a clean energy system. I really don't care. That's the principle behind copyfree. I've done the work, I'm making my money (if I want to) in whatever way I choose, and you can do whatever you want with it too. That's true "freedom".

The copyleft stance is completely the opposite. Copyleft cares *just as much* about what the end user does with the code as copyright/closed source. The only difference is that copyleft demands a different action.

You want to talk about getting ripped off? What about all of the folks who donated code to GPL'ed projects (and other copyleft projects) expecting that others would contribute back, and instead, others made major modifications but didn't contribute the code back because they never "distributed" it (ie: the Web application hole in GPL). Or what about the people who busted their butts writing code, only for some "company" to sell the copyright to another company (like anyone who contributing to Java or MySQL)? Or what about the people who burnt the midnight candle supporting GPL projects, only to see someone else roll up their projects into some form of distro, add one small, key component, and make big bank selling the "key component"? Those are the folks getting ripped off, because they have put their hard labor into copyleft projects expecting the reciprocation, and they were cynically used by corporate interests.

"I prefer the GPL view -- it's a more level playing field for both sides of the software transaction. But to call that "socialism" while spouting about freedom is, in my view, wrong-headed."

Freedom is being able to do what you want. One could add a "responsibility" rider to it and say that you also can't be hurting others in the process. And that's why I say that copyleft is not "freedom". Because I *cannot* do what I want with the content. I can do what I want within certain limits defined by the copyright holder. And yes, I can legitimately compare it to Communism (I never used the word "socialism") because the basic premise is the same... if someone has created a surplus of value, then they must be forced to share that value with everyone else. The word "Communism" has an awful set of connotations due to the history and the usage of our politicians (same could be said of "fascism" for that matter). But if you go back to original principles, the GPL/copyleft movement is extraordinarily similar in that regard. You may not like the comparison because of the negative emotions that the word "Communism" brings up. And I do not use the word "Communism" as a negative value adjective. It's a simple statement of fact.

The GPL principle is very similar to the Communist principle, and I object to both because I believe that I should be able to do *whatever I want* (so long as no one else gets hurt) with the fruits of my labor. In the case of GPL, that means that if I wrote a piece of code... regardless of whether I built on someone else's code... my code is mine to do what I want with. The GPL as-is does not allow that, it forces me in many cases to do certain things. If it were ironclad, I might not object, but with the current "Web application loophole" it is ridiculous.

J.Ja
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
gnufreex Updated - 11th Nov 2010
@Justin James

Like any other BSDL zealot, you're delusiona, you don't get GPL and you live in dream world. Nobody is imposing GPL on you or their way of freedom. You came here saying that GPL doesn't fit your vision of "freedom" (which is: everybody works, you take all code). You call people communist, you insult people. You are an extremist. You are what you accuse Stallman of being.

"Or what about the people who busted their butts writing code, only for some "company" to sell the copyright to another company"

Those people should have read contributor agreement before signing it. You can't possibly blame GPL for that because code *isn't* contributed under GPL. It is contributed under contributor agreement. In case of MySQL, there are not lot of those folks, it was corporate product, no community. If someone feels that CA was broken, they coud start class action suit, but I fail to see how this touches GPL.

"The GPL principle is very similar to the Communist principle, and I object to both because I believe that I should be able to do *whatever I want* (so long as no one else gets hurt) with the fruits of my labor"

This is exactly what I am talking about. You want to do what you want with my code, and call me a communist if my code is GPL. Nobody is restricting what you do with "fruits of you labor", as long as you don't stick my GPL code in it. If you use my code against me, you *are* hurting me.

"The GPL as-is does not allow that, it forces me in many cases to do certain things.."
GPL alows you to do what you want with *your own code*. You can release it under GPL, and tomorrow you can re-license it under other license as long it is *your code*, and your alone. You can't fuse it with my GPL'd code and then re-license it, because then I am stakeholder too, and I get asked too. If you can pick apart your code from mine, you are free to re-license yours.

"If it were ironclad, I might not object, but with the current "Web application loophole" it is ridiculous."

There is no "web application" loophole. It is designed to work that way for ordinary GPL. Running a CMS on site is not distribution and freedom to use software privately is important. GPL has 0 restriction on usage, only applies to redistribution. It is very hypocritical that you scream bloody murder on redistribution restrictions, and at same time you say you lack some other restriction in order for you to be OK with GPL. I seriously doubt that anything will make it ok for you, since you look like you terribly prejudiced against it, and to make things even worse, you don't even understand GPL. But just in case, I will tell you that AGPL does exactly what you want. It extends to web applications. So, what's you beef with AGPL, then? Or you didn't even know that it exist?
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@Justin James

And should I not have the right to do *whatever I want* (so long as no one else gets hurt) with the fruits of my labour, including licensing my work under GPL? Whining about being able do what *you* want with the "fruits of your labour" is null and void because the GPL restrictions only apply if you are making a derivative of another person's work previously licensed under the GPL. Who cares if you build your own original work? You can license original works however you wish. But demanding that you be able to license a derivative of other people's works under more restrictive terms and conditions is infringing upon the copyright and intellectual property of the previous contributors who have agreed to license the fruits of their labour under the GPL. You have no rights upon other people's intellectual property, let that be certain. In fact, demanding that you be able to do whatever you wish with THEIR work is damaging their intellectual property and infringing upon their rights. Now that's your hated Communism for you.

You've just shot yourself in the foot.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
George Mitchell 11th Nov 2010
@DanaBlankenhorn

The reality is that neither GPL nor Commercial software nor anything in between are inherently evil. They are CHOICES that developers and consumers CHOOSE to make. Those who label ANY of these approaches as being inherently evil are simply software bigots who would like to control the choices of others through their own elitist proclamations. Whether this preaching comes from the GPL side, the commercial side, of from somewhere inbetween (ie BSD), it doesn't impress me. Personally, as a consumer, I use them all and understand and attempt to comply my obligations toward each. But to label people as being tyrants or communists for using THEIR preferred license is very much over the top. I AM for TRUE SOFTWARE FREEDOM! I define that as being a situation where people can advocate or make use of whatever licensing approach suits their needs without having to be called names in the process for doing so by some bigot who simply cannot tolerate licensing diversity. If you don't like a particular license, then don't use it. Problem solved. And I am just as troubled by Mr Oliva's assertions in this regard as by Mr James'.
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Tempest in a teapot
glikely 9th Nov 2010
The whole argument is moot. The binary firmware blobs are being removed from the kernel tree anyway.

Reference: http://lwn.net/Articles/412750/ Scroll to the end of the page. (Link is subscriber-only for a few more days).
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 11th Nov 2010
@glikely Delighted to have a technical reference on this thread. The politics was giving me a headache.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
scott2010au 10th Nov 2010
People are aware of the Microsoft Novell/SUSE agreement, right?
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Huh? Are we now redefining FLOSS too?
milki Updated - 10th Nov 2010
FLOSS is the genus of Free/Libre/Open Source software. It's an unsuitable acronym to impose an additional meaning upon open source. And more importantly, not all FLOSS licenses are copyleft. Stop redefining terms. Stop parroting Stallman.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
joe@... 10th Nov 2010
You know, I've been listening to this same argument about the definition of "free" for over 20 years now. It is ridiculous and a waste of time. RMS is god/satan! Open source is satan/god. Bah! It's all crap.

The truth is that we need both the GPL'ish and the BSD'ish licenses. We need both camps if we are going to continue building on the work of the last three-plus decades. For source code licensing, I use different ones depending on what I'm doing. The ones I use are, in no particular order...

* GPL 2
* LGPL
* BSD Like
* MIT
* Public Domain

The only thing I don't understand, and probably never will, is why does it have to be an either/or choice? Free or Open is like arguing over air or water.

Joe
http://ohai.im/joe.klemmer
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
milki 10th Nov 2010
That's true. But I think the bickering was started and is held up by the group that claims more importance. I'm keeping up the ranting just for the amusement factor. But it's also important to have license variety and not a single license choosen by dogma or non-voting.
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You're making a popular mistake
ndemou 10th Nov 2010
Dear Dana, you're making a popular mistake: Open Source= "permissive license" FOSS="non permissive license".

That's *NOT* the case at all. Surely the FSF favors non-permissive licenses over permissive ones but they do accept almost all (and probably even all) open source permissive licenses as valid free SW license.

As a start some experts from the FSF site follow (the most important part is that "nearly all free software is open source, and nearly all open source software is free").

"""The fundamental difference between the two movements is in their values, their ways of looking at the world. For the Open Source movement, the issue of whether software should be open source is a practical question, not an ethical one. As one person put it, ?Open source is a development methodology; free software is a social movement.? For the Open Source movement, non-free software is a suboptimal solution. For the Free Software movement, non-free software is a social problem and free software is the solution.""" -- http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html

"""The term ?open source? software is used by some people to mean more or less the same category as free software. It is not exactly the same class of software: they accept some licenses that we consider too restrictive, and there are free software licenses they have not accepted. However, the differences in extension of the category are small: nearly all free software is open source, and nearly all open source software is free.

Open source is built for business. There are a variety of open source licenses, but one thing they all have in common is that they?re ?permissive,? and don?t carry those copyleft obligations.""" -- http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html

Nick Demou
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By the way I didn't find anything from the OSI site but the Internet Archive had this very clear statement in from their old FAQ:

"""
How is "open source" related to "free software"?

The Open Source Initiative is a marketing program for free software. It's a pitch for "free software" on solid pragmatic grounds rather than ideological tub-thumping.
""" -- http://web.archive.org/web/20021204155057/www.opensource.org/advocacy/faq.php
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Meaningless terminology
jimmyed2000 10th Nov 2010
Dana,

I think you are trying to compare Free Software and Open Source. Not FOSS and Open Source.

FOSS = Free/Open Source Software. Open Source is FOSS
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
twaynesdomain 10th Nov 2010
Note the dummies and miscreants a topic such as this always brings out of the walls.
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
DanaBlankenhorn 11th Nov 2010
@twaynesdomain Signal to noise ratios vary in any system. I've seen many threads here at ZDNet and I find the signal strong in this one, even from those who disagree strongly with what I wrote. (I'm looking at you, Justin. And smiling in thanks.)
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RE: Is Linux FOSS or open source?
gbohrn 10th Nov 2010
Lol. I always find this stuff interesting when the flame wars come out. I generally agree with JJ on most points. I generally avoid GPL2 like the plague as all of the tentacles attached to it makes it hard to deploy proprietary software (of which many folks make a living doing, oh how evil). I am happy to comply with LGPL by allowing folks to swap out the appropriate LGPL component with another version at the users leisure (which is interesting as most computer users can barely turn on their computer let alone understand what a shared library is). I am happy to contribute and I do and generally give my code away as some form of copyfree licensing if it is generally something useful I feel anyone could have written. If it is something I came up and plan to make a living on, then it is my code to do as I will (hence why many components I develop stay proprietary). After sitting on way to many Open Source scrubbing boards from a variety of large companies, I would prefer to avoid using things with too many strings attached even if it makes my life easier. So, for internal frameworks that support build and test environments, I'm happy to use whatever useful components out there as it is not being used in a distributable product, but does make developing solutions easier. But in deployed product (as the majority of my work is in close-source products), I avoid this stuff like the plague as I do not want anyone suing me out of business. I actually like to prosper on the fruit of my labors.

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