Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Microsoft to stop Linux, older Windows, from running on Windows 8 PCs

By | September 23, 2011, 7:55am PDT

Summary: It doesn’t take much reading between the lines to see that Microsoft is going to try to keep Linux, older versions of Windows, and other operating systems off Windows 8 PCs.

Thanks to Mary Jo Foley, we now know that in the name of “security,” Microsoft will be trying to use UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) to block Linux, older versions of Windows, and other alternative operating systems from booting on Windows 8 PCs. Thanks Microsoft we appreciate it.

In a new Microsoft blog, Building Windows 8, by Steven Sinofsky, Microsoft’s president of the Windows division, Linux isn’t mentioned, and he tries to place the blame on the UEFI security protocol. Behind all his dodging, the facts are that Microsoft UEFI secure boot is requirement for Windows 8 certification and that, while “OEMs [original equipment manufacturers) are free to choose how to enable this support," they still have to have it. In turn, that will make it harder for OEMs to support alternative operating systems and, if the OEM does bow down to Microsoft's demands, it will make it almost impossible for end-users to run Linux, older versions of Windows, or other alternative operating systems on Windows 8 certified PCs.

In short, if Microsoft has its way, all Windows 8 PCs will be even more locked into their pre-installed operating systems than Macs are into Mac OS X. Indeed, a better comparison would be how phone companies lock you into their smartphone operating systems. Just like them the Windows 8 PC you buy in 2013 will be permanently locked into Windows 8. And, like smartphones, only expert firmware hackers will be able to switch out operating systems or even enable dual-booting operating systems.

This isn't the first time Microsoft has tried to lock out competitors from Windows PCs. In the early 2000s, Microsoft tried to combine Windows and the BIOS with a Digital Right Management (DRM) scheme called Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB), AKA Palladium. At the time, the point wasn't so much as to block operating systems as it was to build DRM into PCs so you couldn't play any music or video content unless you had a license for it. That effort failed.

That isn't stopping Microsoft from once more trying to stop you from using your computer the way you want to use it though.

Matthew Garrett, the Red Hat engineer who first spotted Microsoft's new sneak attack on alternative operating systems, has taken a new look at Microsoft's latest announcements and Garrett and Red Hat after "discussing the problem with other Linux vendors, hardware vendors and BIOS vendors [to make] sure that we understood the ramifications of the policy in order to avoid saying anything that wasn’t backed up by facts. These are the facts:”

  • Windows 8 certification requires that hardware ship with UEFI secure boot enabled.
  • Windows 8 certification does not require that the user be able to disable UEFI secure boot, and we’ve already been informed by hardware vendors that some hardware will not have this option.
  • Windows 8 certification does not require that the system ship with any keys other than Microsoft’s.
  • A system that ships with UEFI secure boot enabled and only includes Microsoft’s signing keys will only securely boot Microsoft operating systems.

Garrett explains that this is a problem “Because there’s no central certification authority for UEFI signing keys. Microsoft can require that hardware vendors include their keys. Their competition can’t. A system that ships with Microsoft’s signing keys and no others will be unable to perform secure boot of any operating system other than Microsoft’s. No other vendor has the same position of power over the hardware vendors. Red Hat is unable to ensure that every OEM carries their signing key. Nor is Canonical. Nor is Nvidia, or AMD or any other PC component manufacturer. Microsoft’s influence here is greater than even Intel’s.”

Indeed Microsoft still owns the desktop market. Macs still have less than 5% of the world desktop market according to Gartner and the Linux desktop has proven to be a non-starter, PC vendors will have little choice but to kowtow to Microsoft’s Windows 8 demands.

“What does this mean for the end user?” continued Garrett. “Microsoft claims that the customer is in control of their PC. That’s true, if by ‘customer’ they mean ‘hardware manufacturer.’ The end user is not guaranteed the ability to install extra signing keys in order to securely boot the operating system of their choice. The end user is not guaranteed the ability to disable this functionality. The end user is not guaranteed that their system will include the signing keys that would be required for them to swap their graphics card for one from another vendor, or replace their network card and still be able to netboot, or install a newer SATA controller and have it recognize their hard drive in the firmware. The end user is no longer in control of their PC.”

Garrett concluded, “So, the truth is that Microsoft’s move removes control from the end user and places it in the hands of Microsoft and the hardware vendors. The truth is that it makes it more difficult to run anything other than Windows. The truth is that UEFI secure boot is a valuable and worthwhile feature that Microsoft [is] misusing to gain tighter control over the market. And the truth is that Microsoft [hasn't] even attempted to argue otherwise.”

Garrett is, understandably, most concerned about how this will effect desktop Linux. I wonder though if what Microsoft really wants is to avoid a repeat of the Vista fiasco by making sure OEMs and end-users can’t go back to Windows 7 or XP. As Windows 7’s slow adoption and Vista’s flop has shown, users really haven’t been that interested in moving off Windows XP. Since Windows 8’s Metro interface adds an entirely new level of complications for both independent software vendors (ISV)s and end-users, I can see why Sinofsky would want to force Windows 8 down the throats of Windows users “for their own good.”

So what does it all boil down to? As it stands now Microsoft is saying OEMs don’t have to do it. They just have to do it if they want to sell PCs with Windows on them. Paging the anti-trust lawyers, I think Microsoft’s latest attempt to abuse their PC monopoly power bears investigation. Welcome back Evil Empire, I knew you couldn’t really be that far away.

Related Stories:

Microsoft: Don’t blame us if Windows 8’s secure boot requirement blocks Linux dual-boot

Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs

Will Windows 8 block users from dual-booting Linux? Microsoft won’t say

Yes, UEFI ’secure boot’ could lock out Linux from Windows 8 PCs

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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it!

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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The Real Targets
barence773 4th Oct
I suspect the real targets here are Windows XP and Windows 7. My company still uses WinXP on the vast majority of our desktops. IF we have switched to Win7 by the time Win8 launches (doubtful), the company will almost certainly want to stay with Win7. So they will want to buy new hardware, but have the computers run an older version of Windows.
I guess you missed the memo that said end users could disable secure boot.

Go read your colleague's articles before spouting FUD.
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It wasn't missed
mdemuth 23rd Sep
@Aerowind
It was carefully ignored. Which is how you run a good old FUD article.
If you pointed out the truth, people would laugh.
@Aerowind
"I guess you missed the memo that said end users could disable secure boot."

"could" does not mean "can."
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"could" does not mean "can't"
toddybottom 23rd Sep
@ac1234555
It had to be said.
@ac1234555 disable, yes. Allow dual boot ... another question. So you can have Win8, or VM, or Linux ... but not all 3 able to boot on one machine.
@Aerowind Do your own research. BIOS manufactures are ALLOWED to offer the ability to turn off secure boot, not required. Given most inexpensive implementation do the minimum required, that means as is there will probably be many machines without this capability. What is worse is even when it is possible to turn it off, it may not be easy to do so. According to another article one of the prototype BIOSES with this feature required literally opening the case and flipping a dip switch to disable secure boot.

The next obvious step is for Windows to only boot when secure boot is enabled. At that point, for a dual boot system with a dip switch you would have to open your case and flip the switch each time you toggled your boot.
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That isn't Microsoft stopping them
Michael Alan Goff 23rd Sep
@docbillnet

That's the OEM.
@docbillnet
The next obvious step for Microsoft of course would be to offer OEMs a discount on Windows for disallowing turning off of secure boot - hidden under a secret agreement protected by a non disclosure clause like all their other evil PC OEM cartel agreements. Voila - you exclude Linux "because OEMs are not selling it because customers don't want Linux". Of course customers don't get a choice.


Microsoft is evil, criminal, abusive, and always will be.
As a technologist and retired lawyer, I sincerely doubt that dual-booting is the threat Microsoft seeks to blunt with this "feature." That non-threat has existed for more than a decade.

I think it far more likely that the primary perceived threat motivating this Microsoft move is USB 3.0 thumb drives that boot a a Linux desktop.

With raw data throughput rates across the USB 3.0 fifth channel already near 4 G-bit/second and 5 G-bit performance approaching as hardware is refined, such drives are already cheap in 32-GB configuration and prices are dropping rapidly on 64-GB versions. Either are more than sufficient for a portable Linux desktop, particular when coupled with cloud storage of data through services such as Dropbox.

With its business model and EULAs locked into one OS copy per *computer,* Windows installed to a thumb drive is a destination Windows can't strive for, whilst desktop Linux is well suited to the task.

But Microsoft's implementation of UEFI would seem to neatly blunt that threat. This is definitely a competition killer.

To those insisting that there is no antitrust issue here, I'll suggest that you do some research on relevant case law, particularly in the E.U. where such a complaint is most likely to be lodged. See e.g., paragraph 7 of Nederlandse Federatieve Vereniging voor de Groothandel op Elektrotechnisch Gebied and Technische Unie BV v Commission, (joined cases T-5/00 and T-6/00), Judgment of the Court of First Instance (First Chamber) (16 December 2003), http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62000A0005:EN:NOT
@Mah

Stopping dual-booting wouldn't do anything to their bottom-line. They still sell a license, even if you decide to use Windows less than your dual-boot Linux.

So why would they do it?
@Aerowind But then the OS that came with the PC won't boot.
@Aerowind
It is widely believed - with good justification - that Microsoft and the hardware OEMs run a series of illegal anti-competitive cartels which are based on implementation of secret agreements signed between Microsoft and the OEMs protected from scruitiny by the damaged parties (competitors and the consumer) by non disclosure agreements. These are believed to use rebates on Windows, advertising rebates, patent extortion and racketeering, withholding or delaying certification or driver support etc. and price/specification fixing in order to induce or prevent OEMs from pre-installing or post-installing anything other than Windows on PCs. Microsoft's most recent successful use of these anti-competitive tactics is believed to be in the elimination of previously successful Linux netbooks from the market. Many believe this was achieved by a combination of advertising subsidies provided they did not sell Linux netbooks in retail stores to remove them from being displayed or advertised, by predatory price fixing of Windows netbooks at below cost (free can't compete with below cost) paid for by levies on other Windows PCs on which Microsoft has a monopoly, and an enforced low hardware specification applied to netbook hardware in order to qualify for the predatory pricing schemes in order to prevent the predatory pricing scheme resulting in cannibalisation of other Windows PCs.

Microsoft's secret agreements with the OEMs absolutely need to be forced public by law in order to prevent Microsoft abusing them. If they are not, then Microsoft will definitely abuse them as they have without pause since they first abused competition laws with the pay per processor licensing of Windows more than 15 years ago.

Allowing a convicted serial offender like Microsoft free reign to make secret OEM deals without the possibility of scrutiny in the past was like allowing a paedophile to roam free near children without supervision, but what we have now is like allowing a paedophile to take charge of a nursery and force all the staff to sign non disclosure agreements to prevent them from speaking out about abuses.

Microsoft shouldn't have been allowed to apply NDA terms to its agreements with OEMs in areas where it holds a monopoly in the past, and as with other monopolies, the agreements should have been make public so that an ombudsman and organisations representing the public could have scrutinised what was going on. With this total lockout mechanism, things only get much worse from an anti-trust viewpoint.
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RE: Microsoft to stop Linux, older Windows, from running on Windows 8 PCs
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 23rd Sep
The rest of the world seems quite happy knowing they don't have to worry about some rogue user installing linux. I want to thank Microsoft for making this move. Notice how its a Red Hat employee putting his nose into places it doesn't belong and making a bigger deal out of this than need be? Anyways, this won't affect too many people because not many people run linux to begin with.
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humorous.
UrNotPayingAttention 23rd Sep
@LoverockDavidson_

So, when mention of the hundreds of thousands of viruses for Windows is made, people aren't talking about rootkits, spyware, keyloggers, and phone home trojans... they're actually talking about some "rogue user installing linux" on their system?

In the words of Johnny Carson: "I did not know that"

And yes, it would be an engineer from RH to point this out; the linux community is usually the only ones willing to point out, suggest checks and balances for, and offer substitution (and often times better) products for the iron-fisted controlled platforms of vendors such as MS and Apple.

Also, as you pointed out, linux users are the only ones capable of running complex machines using o/s in a multi-boot fashion.
like Linux? Word is that he is a little soft between the ears, but that probably from taking to many Redmond pledge drills.
@LoverockDavidson_
Another idiot.
@LoverockDavidson_

So you are glad that M$ will prevent you from installing any other version of windows, or prevent you from changing out your graphics card?
I can only hope that this back fires for M$
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RE: Microsoft to stop Linux, older Windows, from running on Windows 8 PCs
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 23rd Sep
@guzz46
Your 'S' key is broken. It keeps putting a dollar sign $ where an 'S' should be. Might want to replace that keyboard.
Who cares about multi-booting other OSes in the age of VMs? Windows 8 will ship with Hyper-V. I don't restart or shut down my main system. If I want to run another OS it will be in a VM session. This is a much simpler, quicker, and more secure way to do it.
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Me
johnfenjackson@... 23rd Sep
NT
@BillDem That is good, only if you are willing to give Hyper-V control of your system. Personally, I always want my main system to be Linux... Windows does to many stupid things, like automatically rebooting my machine for a Windows update when a video encoding process is 99% complete.
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Just a thought...
itpro_z 23rd Sep
@docbillnet ...but maybe you should change your Windows Update settings to prevent that.
@BillDem More than multi-boot is affected. A PC that comes with Win8 home basic will only be upgradable to Win8 Pro, etc. or Win9 if the the OEM decides to allow it.
@BillDem

while VMs are grate and all there is still good reasons to go with a native boot until we can all afford the top line models of home computers or some cluster/server setup
@BillDem
This is not more secure at all. A VM depends on the host machine to keeps working properly, installing linux in a vm on windows is stupid and defeats the whole purpose of a stand alone machine. And if windows goes don't and it does do that sometimes, a fresh install might be needed and their goes your vmachines and your files.
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Can't be bothered to check facts. You don't even bother following the story you cover. As soon as you see an opportunity to spread FUD about Microsoft or Windows you go blindly for it, with no respect for journalistic integrity.

Sum up: Story debunked.
Another human being used as pet by his OS.

Great article Steven.
@daikon

Another sheep being lead by a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Terrible Article Steven
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Agreed....
linux for me 23rd Sep
@daikon

Can anyone say anti-trust??? Microsoft didn't learn from the last time they tried to lock up their monopoly, now they are trying and end run to lock out all competition.

Great article Steven!
@linux for me

What part of that this is not required for OEMs to do but it is available to more secure the Windows Operating System. Now if the OEMs choose to use it and not provide an option to disable it in the UEFI then it is the OEM at fault. Why don't you read the article below:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/23/ms_denies_uefi_lock_in/

In there it says that Microsoft is NOT mandating that this be done but it is available for enhanced security. That is all. Will this enhanced security require an extra step or two for the very very few that would like to dual boot their computer? Yes it will. It could be as simple as disabling secure boot in the UEFI or having that other OS have a secure signature.

This is not Anti-Trust so you really need to get an education son.
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Hoorah!
William Farrell 23rd Sep
@daikon
LOL!
You'll never understand the truth. I guess you can'y handle the truth
@Willy,
The truth is Professor Ross Anderson of Cambridge University, Matthew Garrett, Mary Jo, Steven and others brought up the issue. Microsoft issued a statement its up to the OEMs to address. Time will tell if this is true.

Do some research on the meaning of Hoorah, and have a little more respect.
@honeymonster : yet another one that hasn't either read the article or understood the issues.
SJVN,
Shame on you for spreading FUD.
Nah, Windows uses a boot partition and as I said before they provide their own chainloading options with their Bootloader.

I don't see anything changing, I see Windows 7 controlling the Boot Loader and passing the parameters onto GRUB on another partition which will then Load the Linux Kernel.
OEMs may stop Linux, older Windows, from running on Windows 8 PCs.

Fixed it for you. Was not that hard !!!! happy
@1773

For the very small amount of people that actually want/need to run Linux as dual boot they may have to go through a couple extra steps or see what updates and utilities come out for Linux to make this happen. You are talking about less than 2% of the computing population.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and right now that need is for a more secure computing experience.

SJVN and his "followers" refuse to get all the information or facts and rather spread FUD and Lies.
@bobiroc
"For the very small amount of people that actually want/need to run Linux as dual boot they may have to go through a couple extra steps or see what updates and utilities come out for Linux to make this happen."

Sad that he would have so little respect for the intelligence of his fellow Linux users.
@bobiroc

I know right? I mean you don't hear anyone complaining because Google Locks out running other Operating systems on a Chromebook and they are actually locking it out. Microsoft is advancing security and a very small percentage of the computer users of the world (many of which are some of the biggest complainers, liars, and uninformed people) may be a bit inconvenienced and have to disable a secureboot ROM or take a few extra steps to dual boot.

I am sure they can still format their machines and install Linux flat because many of them claim they have no need for Windows so what is the big deal? Also thanks to hardware virtualization Linux on the Desktop runs quite nicely in a VM. The only applications that do not like running in a VM with Hardware Virtualization are really games or other 3D intensive applications. Maybe it is just me but I rather do that over having to reboot my computer to use another OS.
@bobiroc

I guess M$ just can't do any wrong for M$ fanboys.

If this is truly about security then why doesn't M$ redesign their OS to prevent malware from installing so easily, Linux doesn't need to do any of this crap to be secure, it was designed with security in mind from the very beginning, but you have to be careful what you click on in windows because everything has executable permissions in windows.
  • Flagged
@guzz46

I guess M$ just can't do any wrong for M$ fanboys.

And what is this "M$" you keep referring to? I checked Google and Bing and cannot come up with a company called "M$" - unless you are using that shop worn elementary schoolyard "insult" towards Microsoft - which would IMHO completely invalidate any further point you would make as you have already revealed yourself to be incapable of having a civilized adult discussion.

If this is truly about security then why doesn't M$ redesign their OS to prevent malware from installing so easily, Linux doesn't need to do any of this crap to be secure, it was designed with security in mind from the very beginning, but you have to be careful what you click on in windows because everything has executable permissions in windows.


Three words for you: The Linux Foundation. Aren't their servers STILL down from that attack? Two more words for you: kernel.org. Is THAT back up and running yet? And HOW was the Sony Network hacked into? Aren't THEY running Linux servers? So talk to me about how secure Linux really is...
@Pete "athynz" Athens

So Pete... M$ is a symbol to describe how Microsoft is an anticompetitive money greedy company that will do anything they can to make more money.

And you seem to have a hard time distinguishing a server from a desktop PC, and an equally hard time distinguishing malware/viruses from being hacked by a hacker.
Since desktop users aren't using their desktop as a server then being hacked is the least of their worries, malware/viruses are their number one concern, and they run rampant on windows PC's because of windows poor security.
If you want to try and test windows security then you should go and visit some of the links from this website http://www.malwareblacklist.com/
But be careful and remember what I said, everything has executable permissions in windows.

Of course you are more than welcome to direct me to a Linux virus if you can find one.

And you wanted to know how Sony's PSN got hacked? because they were running on unpatched Apache servers with no firewall.
@guzz46

So Pete... M$ is a symbol to describe how Microsoft is an anticompetitive money greedy company that will do anything they can to make more money.


So making a profit = anti competitive greed? So what does that make every other company in the world? Does that mean every other company is anti-competitive? Spoken like a truly blinded Linux fanboi and brainwashed sheep in the flock of SJVN. Imagine that.

And you seem to have a hard time distinguishing a server from a desktop PC, and an equally hard time distinguishing malware/viruses from being hacked by a hacker.


Not at all - I brought up the issues with Linux because of you fanbois who love to claim that Linux is invulnerable to any and all attacks when it is clearly not the case - but do go on...

Since desktop users aren't using their desktop as a server then being hacked is the least of their worries, malware/viruses are their number one concern, and they run rampant on windows PC's because of windows poor security.


And here it is - you are blaming the OS for the malware/ viruses... go figure. The majority of malware/ viruses can be contained by utilizing common sense, tech savvy, and maintaining decent antivirus and antimalware programs... and making sure that one's computer - be it Windows, Macintosh, or Linux based - is secure.

If you want to try and test windows security then you should go and visit some of the links from this website http://www.malwareblacklist.com/
But be careful and remember what I said, everything has executable permissions in windows.

Of course you are more than welcome to direct me to a Linux virus if you can find one.


As I do what I said above and use common sense and maintain my computer I have no need to check your link - I can say that I've used Windows for over 14 years now without any sort of virus or malware on my PC.

As for Linux viruses and malware I direct your attention to the following:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/198686/linux_trojan_raises_malware_concerns.html

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/linux-infection-proves-windows-malware-monopoly-is-over-gentoo-ships-backdoor-updated/2206 (I'll grant this one may be a bit biased as it is an Ed Bott article)

http://www.darknet.org.uk/2011/01/java-based-cross-platform-malware-trojan-maclinuxwindows/ (thought I'd throw in one that affected all 3 major platforms just for grins)

And you wanted to know how Sony's PSN got hacked? because they were running on unpatched Apache servers with no firewall.


Ahh yes, the whole "the front door was open" argument... I'll give you that one for the Sony Network. Perhaps you can explain what happened to kernel.org and The Linux Foundation... surely their firewalls were closed and the severs patched properly - especially at The Linux Foundation.

But back to the subject at hand - you SJVN sheep see Microsoft conspiracies behind every tree and bush when thus far there are no real facts that Microsoft is planning on blocking dual booting from the final version. Thus far all of this furor that SJVN has raised is based on suppositions, rumors, and misinformation that you seem to keep accepting at face value.
@Pete "athynz" Athens

No making a profit isn't being greedy, trying to force your competition out of the market by using anticompetitve behaviour is.
Most other companies out there actually compete with each other by improving their products, M$ tries to force its competition out of the market by using anticompetitive behavior, I guess they have no faith in their own product.

And when did I say that Linux is invulnerable to any and all attacks? I mentioned malware/viruses, like TDL-4 that has infected millions of windows PC's (you may even have it on your PC and you wouldn't even know) I advise you to go and learn the differences between windows and Linux and you will understand why its so easy to get infected in windows... remember what I said about how everything has executable permissins in windows? well they don't in Linux, I don't even need to utilize common sense, tech savvy, and maintain decent antivirus and antimalware programs on Linux because it was designed with security in mind from the beginning, hence yes you can blame the OS, I find it funny how windows users always tend to blame the user and not the OS, it kind of reminds me of Stockholm syndrome.

So by not visiting that website I gave you just shows that you have no faith in windows security, of course I can visit every link on that site with no worries, I have even looked for a Linux virus (even the Koobface java one you mentioned) but I couldn't find any, I did find an old Linux virus from years ago but it came with makepkg instructions on how to install it.

I asked you to direct me to an actual Linux virus, not to a news article about some third party app having a backdoor, I directed you to a link to thousands of windows viruses, just one actual Linux virus is all I ask, I am willing to test the security of my Linux install (unlike yourself)

I don't know what happened to kernel.org and the Linux Foundation because I don't work there, but again servers vs desktop, two different things.

As opposed to M$ sheep who only see the good in everything M$ does? including all their anticompetitive behaviour, to look at things from a different perspective I will give you this link http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Don't worry there is no viruses there, but being a M$ fanboy you won't like it.
@1773
Even if it stops 1 person its just wrong. Its the person who buy's the computers right to run whatever they want on it.
So you're angry there's no linux distro that supports UEFI? I understand your anger about not having the right keys to allow a linux OS to boot, but it seems like the sort of thing enough loud complaining people can get the companies to do. Especially if the open source community starts their own repository for these keys and convinces hardware manufacturers to just toss them in there.

Also, it is sort of an optional thing.
@Darkninja962@...

Getting UEFI support in Linux is a piece of cake. Getting the hardware vendors to support keys is another sport entirely. The truth of the matter that there is no real security benefit from this (if there was then the BIOS MBR lockdown that was done couple of years ago would rid the world of viruses) that couldn't be achieved in a better way by other means. If Microsoft was at all serious about security they would take Internet Explorer behind their Redmond HQ and shot it in the back of the head.

M$ is simply using it's dominant market position to lock the competition out of the game. If it was honestly concerned about security of it's users it would make use of the kernel design they have with their own userland software. They have system user separate from administrative user (a great, secure kernel-level design) and bucketload of holes above it in the userland.

You all seem to forget that UEFI lock and MS keys will be required to boot Windows 8 at all. So the way that most desktop users use linux (dual-boot) will become impossible. M$ know very damn well that most users will not bother, those that do will have additional thing screwing with them while their computer boots. And this only if OEMs bother to do what's more expensive for them and allow disabling in the first place.

Additionally, it's not unlike Microsoft to strong-arm OEMs behind the scenes even if they would (and why should they) do what's more expensive for them.

I doubt anyone bothering to read these posts is that stupid. My bet is that most of these constantly, mindlessly repeatable "apologists" are just bunch of shills. I would be willing to put my monthly sallory on that one for some of them,
@bojan@... There's no point explaining things to the MS supporters. They are totally ignorant of anything outside MS promotional materials.
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The Real Targets
barence773 4th Oct
I suspect the real targets here are Windows XP and Windows 7. My company still uses WinXP on the vast majority of our desktops. IF we have switched to Win7 by the time Win8 launches (doubtful), the company will almost certainly want to stay with Win7. So they will want to buy new hardware, but have the computers run an older version of Windows.

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