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Linux and Open Source

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney

Mono, open-source .NET for Android, Linux and iOS, lives on

By | July 20, 2011, 10:12am PDT

Summary: When Novell dropped Mono, even after its founder created a new company to support it, it looked like it was a dead language walking. Now, with support from SUSE Linux, Mono lives on.

When Novell’s new owner, Attachmate, announced that it was letting Miguel de Icaza, the founder and lead developer of Mono go, I assumed Mono, the open-source implementation of Microsoft’s .NET was a dead development platform walking. Even after de Icaza launched his own company, Xamarin, to keep Mono going, I had little hopes Mono would survive. Well, it looks like I was wrong.

Xamarin has convinced SUSE–Attachmate’s Linux branch–to give it Mono’s intellectual property. In return, Xamarin will provide technical support to SUSE customers using Mono-based products, and assume stewardship of the Mono open source community project.

In a statement, Nils Brauckmann, president and general manager of SUSE, said, “This partnership is a triple win–a win for SUSE, a win for Xamarin, but most importantly, a win for our customers, users and community. Our partnership ensures SUSE customers continue to get the best support possible, enables the bright team at Xamarin to achieve success in their promising new Where Novell & SUSE Linux goes from here venture, and provides continuity of stewardship for the Mono open source community project in the very capable hands of its most passionate evangelists.”

The partnership agreement will ensures that current and future SUSE customers hosting applications on SUSE Linux Enterprise Mono Extension application server will continue to receive full commercial support for their platform from SUSE, backed by Xamarin. Current SUSE customers using Mono developer tools, including MonoTouch, Mono for the iOS device family; Mono for Android; and Mono Tools for Visual Studio, will receive support and updates directly from Xamarin for the remainder of their subscription period.

For more information about support options for SUSE, customers should go to www.suse.com/mono. For more information about Xamarin support for Mono, go to support.xamarin.com .

That was the first part of Xamarin’s news. It set the foundation for what the company must hope will be its future as a mobile development platform. In a blog posting, de Icaza wrote, “We are a young company, but we are completely dedicated to these mobile products and we can not wait to bring smiles to every one of our customers.”

Specifically, Xamarin announced that “Xamarin’s Mono-based products [will] enable .NET developers to use their existing code, libraries and tools (including Visual Studio*), as well as skills in .NET and the C# programming language, to create mobile applications for the industry’s most widely-used mobile devices, including Android-based smartphones and tablets, iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch.”

“Our mission is to make it fast, easy and fun to build great mobile apps, whether for individual consumers or for enterprises,” said Nat Friedman, Xamarin’s CEO in a statement. “Since the introduction of MonoTouch in 2009, developers have experienced how Mono can streamline mobile application development. Xamarin will continue to innovate to deliver incredible experiences to iOS and Android developers.”

In his blog, de Icaza added, “Our immediate plans for both MonoTouch and Mono for Android is to make sure that your critical and major bugs are fixed. We have been listening to the needs of the community and we are working to improve these products to meet your needs. You can expect updates to the products in the next week.”

De Icaza also wrote, “In the past couple of months, we have met with some of our users and we have learned a lot about what you wanted. We incorporated your feature requests into our products road-maps for both the MonoTouch [for iOS] and the Mono for Android products.”

“Another thing we learned is that many companies need to have a priority support offering for this class of products, so we have introduced this. It can either be purchased when you first order MonoTouch or Mono for Android, or you get an upgrade to get the priority support.”

Will this be sufficient to make Mono a viable development platform? I think it might. Mono, despite some excellent programs such as the Banshee media player, never found much traction on the Linux desktop. In the far larger Android and iOS developer markets, Mono may yet find success.

Related Stories:

Mono lives … in new startup Xamarin

SUSE Studio 1.2 ships, SUSE Linux chief to roll out full cloud strategy soon

Where Novell & SUSE Linux goes from here

Is Mono dead? Is Novell dying?

Novell Deals Done

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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it!

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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RE: Mono, open-source .NET for Android, Linux and iOS, lives on
bandersnatch42vt 27th Jul
@Linux Geek

I use a GNU/Linux based operating system. I permanently switched from Windows 4 years ago. I use a combination of Open Source Software, Free and Open Source Software and CLosed Source Software.

I need my OS of choice to work the way I want it to work and not be half crippled due to someone else's principles.
interesting... will Steve Jobs approve?
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Probably, but not in a timely fashion

Edit: Likely some time next year :P
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With Eclipse and Android, Mono's opportunity is gone. Too bad the Spanish original developer didnt take time to understand that MS might seem big in Spain, but many shy away from it, because of its taxing system (OS/Office). Not to mention how much trouble it can cause with Linux if it is adopted.

I will use Visual Studio on MS boxes, though will never include it in any Linux or Android development. It just makes business sense. MS and FOS don't Mix.
@goff256 I do not understand at all what you are saying. You can buy the Xamarin products to code for iOS (iPhone and iPad) and Android today. In fact, there are already many apps in the App Store and Market written using these tools.

I use these environments myself. I can (and have) released iPhone apps written 100% in C#.

What is happening next year?
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Job$ does not care of
Linux Geek 20th Jul
@tatiGmail
something that is DOA.
@tatiGmail

There are many apps already in the App Store using these tools. There is also the gaming company Unity that uses Mono to host games on both iOS and Android. Apple frequently "features" these apps so they clearly approve.

http://unity3d.com/
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Dr. Roy Schestowitz, an award winning industry expert has already shown why mono & Novell are dead because of their ties with M$:
http://techrights.org/2011/07/14/xamarin-and-mono-a-dead-end/
Wise people should use only FOSS friendly tools in the future.
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It's a real shame
Michael Alan Goff 20th Jul
Why do people turn their back on a good programming language based on who made it?

That makes no sense to me.
@goff256
You can see lots of valid reasons why .net is flawed by design at javalobby.com.
I go for good references, not a site that is pushing a competing product.
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@goff256
or are they pretending, the art of the troll?
LinuxGeek isn't clueless.

Zealots like him can't see the other side.
@Linux Geek,

I didn't see anything specific at JavaLobby.com concerning .NET. Can you provide a more specific link.
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Means you will end up like WordPerfect / VisiCalc / Borland / Novell / SCO / Yahoo. Its just a matter of time before you lose significance. Or worse yet, be on the receiving end of an Oracle-Google / Apple-HTC / Kodak-Apple, etc.

Looked at Mono, its alright, but Android SDK under Eclipse is a lot more versatile than Mono under the same IDE.
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Because it's patent encumbered
John L. Ries Updated - 21st Jul
@goff256
It would be really easy for MS to license its .NET related patents free to all comers for use under Windows, but charge $500 a copy to license them on non-approved operating systems. This is a company with a long record of hostility to Linux and the GPL. Just because they're not enforcing their .NET-related patents now doesn't mean they won't in the future.

I'd just as soon not take that risk.

Reply to goff:

They want Windows everywhere, not just .NET. They'll tolerate competition only to the extent that they have to to stay out of antitrust court. Besides, Steve Ballmer and other senior MS-execs have never made any secret of their hostility to Linux and the free software movement, and have shown great willingness to use their large collection of patents as anticompetitive weapons.

No thanks.
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I doubt they will
Michael Alan Goff 21st Jul
Microsoft wants .NET everywhere.
@goff256 Indeed, people love to hate tech that comes from companies they do not like. I do not like Microsoft but I think they did a nice job with .NET and I really enjoy using Mono.

@Linux Geek - I went to javalobby.com really looking forward to seeing what Java devs do not like about .NET. Sadly, there was almost nothing.

Amusingly, the only article I found at javalobby on .NET was this one:

http://www.dzone.com/links/why_java_developers_hate_net.html

In it, the author says that he really liked C# but did not like Visual Studio. One of the three people that left comments said they are a Java dev that uses C# for personal projects because they like it better.

So thank @Linux Geek for providing a link that shows that Java devs really like .NET.
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@Linux Geek
are right once in thier lives, and wrong the rest, only because they believe their own hype and start talking through their Levi's.
@Linux Geek - I will not even dignify Roy Schestowitz as a source. I advise anybody reading anything by him to also read the comments. I am sure you can make up your own mind.
@Linux Geek

I use a GNU/Linux based operating system. I permanently switched from Windows 4 years ago. I use a combination of Open Source Software, Free and Open Source Software and CLosed Source Software.

I need my OS of choice to work the way I want it to work and not be half crippled due to someone else's principles.
Long live .NET and Mono!
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Anybody with a brain and even dumb people are avoiding Mono because it is literally a plague. There is ZERO guarantee that if/when a product based on Mono becomes popular, that the patent holders will not start suing left and right.
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thinking exact same thing
thx-1138_@... 21st Jul
@wackoae .. this is why the Android crew would do well to focus on Python or Ruby as a basis of Android from here on out.
@wackoae
this is why people are listening to an industry award winning expert and avoid mono & other M$ tax payers:
http://techrights.org/company-blacklist/
@wackoae - This is the standard argument against Mono.

Sentence #1 - attack on supporter intelligence (in this case EVEN dumb people are avoiding it you say).

Sentence #2 - Extremely strong statement about the inevitability of legal action without a single solitary fact to back it up.

Sentence #3 - Most likely this will come in the reply. A link to Microsoft taking legal action against some other company over an "operating system issue" (usually Linux) with a lot of "see, I told you they were evil" hand-waving. I have yet to see any evidence of even a veiled threat by Microsoft against Mono or in-fact any other MS related developer tool or platform.
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Sorry
John L. Ries Updated - 22nd Jul
@tanishaj
Given MS' history over the past 20 years, why should developers for non-MS systems (even propretary ones) trust MS? Says me, it's like trusting a convicted bank robber with a gun at his hip not to point it at you.

MS can earnsome trust with developers and users of competing products , but it will take *years* of changed behavior and may take the replacement of the CEO and most of his direct subordinates (Steve Ballmer lost all credibility with me back in 2001 when he expressed shock and amazement that anyone would mistrust MS; that marked him as either dishonest or clueless). Minimal, grudging compliance with court orders isn't good enough. Never was. Never will be.
@ John L. Ries - Agreed. I do not trust them either. I expect them to point their guns at others first though (which they are doing).

Mono, especially the core CLR seems quite safe despite this. Take C# and F# on Mono. F# is APL 2.0 licensed and comes with a full patent grant. Mono implements CLR and C# and is covered by a full patent grant (the MCP). If I use ASP.NET MVC on this it is APL 2.0 again with a full patent grant.

The coverage is really solid. I bet I am much, much more exposed to MS patents when I use Ruby on Rails or Django on Python than I am when I use Mono. Microsoft is currently shaking down Android vendors (Java based).

If you do not trust Microsoft, it seems that Mono is the safe choice.
From the blog article:
"Mono, despite some excellent programs such as the Banshee media player, never found much traction on the Linux desktop.

I would think that Canonical is a supporter of Xamarin as Mono continues to be included in the Ubuntu desktop (as of 11.04 and 11.10) to support such Mono-based applications as Banshee, the new default music player, and Tomboy Notes. In fact, Mono packages in Ubuntu 11.10 will be compiled against libraries corresponding to .NET 4.0. And the Linux Mint edition derived from Ubuntu also includes Mono by default. Debian? No. Nor the Linux Mint edition derived from Debian unstable.
The way Mono makes it possible to write GUI applications on Linux, is _the_ right way to create GUI applications on Linux. That's why I will support and use Mono when starting creating GUI applications under Linux.

I am currently using VS on Win-boxes where I work, so using mono will be a side project in my spare time.

Trond
Although I'm not a really big fan of Fourth generation languages, they certainly have their place with rapid application development and scripting. However, I don't see a good case for using Mono.

Mono is tied to .NET and always a step behind.

Mono tends to be kind of bloated even for a fourth generation language.

.NET has a nice IDE, but when you run software based on it, its mechanics seem overly complicated and buggy/flaky (how many times have I had to reinstall the operating system on an XP machine because of a .NET issue? Too many). Is Mono less like this?

There are alternatives like Java, Python, and Ruby. The alternatives tend to be more cross platform with less overhead.

I just don't see myself getting behind Mono.
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Android needs a new cross-platform
thx-1138_@... Updated - 21st Jul
@CFWhitman .. language as its foundation. The writing is on the wall for anything Java. As eloquent as the Java & Eclipse SDK make as a combo, Oracle have Google's Android between a rock and hard place.

The options are thinning, so it's almost elementary now: either Python or Ruby.
@CFWhitman - Fair enough. Diversity is a good thing.

Mono being a step behind is a perspective thing. The very latest .NET technology is usually available almost simultaneously in Mono. What may not be available are clones of other MS products.

If you view Mono as a compatibility layer for Windows apps then I would agree as the API lags behind in some areas (no WPF, WCF, or Entity Framework for example).

However, if you view Mono as a platform in it's own right I disagree. The CLR and the C# language is right up to date and in fact leads sometimes. For example, you can already use some of the async stuff in Mono. Also, you can use the Mono C# compiler as a service which is something Microsoft is hoping to deliver in C# 5 or 6. Mono offers capabilities like accelerated SIMD instructions and 64-bit arrays that .NET does not (even though the latter is in the CLR spec).

Mono extends the .NET API in many interesting ways including Mono.Addins and Mono.Options. The Mono community spawns some very interesting next generation technologies like the Manos de Mono non-blocking web server and web development framework. In short, Mono leads in at least as many ways as they lag.

The value is in the core platform (the CLR) and the languages (C#, F#, and others). For the API, there are open source alternatives to everything Mono supposedly lacks. Use ServiceStack instead of WCF, NHibernate instead of Entity Framework, and GTK# instead of WPF, for example.

Also, let's not lose sight of the fact that the majority of the .NET framework is current and available on Mono. You can develop ASP.NET MVC 3 apps using F# on Mono. Most .NET devs are no where near that current. So, is Mono really holding people back?The irony is that Mono detractors say that Mono sucks because it just copies Microsoft while simultaneously saying that Mono sucks because it does not copy Microsoft enough. "I cannot use all of the MS universe so my only choice is to use none of it" is a funny argument to me but that is the one you are making. It makes me laugh but I hate that the platform suffers from this kind of misinformation.

I disagree with some of your other stuff but opinions are opinions. I could say that Java uses more memory, that Ruby and Python are slower etc. and we could have a good fight over what "bloat" and "overhead" mean. No need to argue about everything though.
@tanishaj - I am probably coming off a bit that I disapprove of other people choosing other platforms. Far from it.

Ruby and Python are great. The JVM has a great ecosystem. Java itself seems a bit C# 1.0 to me (not even) but Scala, Clojure, Gosu, Stab, and soon Kotlin are really great. I would prefer to have real generics, tail call elimination, true object primitives, and other CLR features that the JVM lacks but, hey, too each his own.
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Is there really a risk of Microsoft suing?
tanishaj Updated - 22nd Jul
A few things:

1) If you are a company using Android (Java based) you have a big risk of being sued by Microsoft (they have already taken legal action against a half-dozen Android vendors and are currently targeting Samsung).

2) Microsoft (senior employees) have stated on the record that Microsoft will not sue over Mono (specifically with Mono for Android at one point).

3) The Microsoft Community Promise provides a full patent grant for the CLR (otherwise known as the .NET runtime, JIT compiler, and virtual execution system [virtual machine]). The core Mono technology is quite well protected from patent action by Microsoft.

4) Microsoft actively helps develop Mono in some areas by sharing their official test suites and other technologies with the Mono team.

5) Microsoft actually tells you to use Mono in many cases and actively supports it in some of their products. For example, F# officially targets Mono.

6) Quite a lot of code that Microsoft actually wrote ships with the official Mono distribution including ASP.NET MVC, MEF, F#, IronPython, and IronRuby.

7) The founder of the Mono project, and co-founder of it's largest corporate backer (Xamarin), is a Microsoft MVP.

8) The Mono folks frequently speak about Mono at Microsoft's official developer conferences.

9) High profile employees (like Scott Hanselman) have publicly relied on Mono. For example, the Hanselminutes iPhone app is written in Mono (he did a podcast about it).

10) The legal principle of estoppel prevents companies from endorsing technologies in all the above ways and then trying to pursue legal action against people using those technologies.

11) Yes, both estoppel and latches have been successfully used to defeat patent lawsuits in the past. Patents suck but they are not all powerful in the way that some alarmists like to portray.

12) Patents are not copyrights. They have nothing to do with who wrote the software or authored the API that you are using. Using an open source API authored by Microsoft does not put you at any greater risk of Microsoft patent lawsuits than using one authored by Google or Oracle. See point 1) above.

13) I do not trust Microsoft. They have a history of being evil.

14) Microsoft has a vested interest (profit motive) in the success of the .NET platform which completely explains their actions with regards to Mono. I do not have to think they are "nice" to believe that Mono is safe.

Based on the above, I conclude that using Mono puts me at no more risk than using anything else. Also, the people that say that Mono is not safe have never offered anything other than "Microsoft is evil" as evidence that I am wrong. As above, I think that "Microsoft is evil" might actually make Mono safer than it's competitors in this case.

In fact, with Java specifically there are a number of legal concerns. For example, the Java patent grant will not cover you if your implementation extends the Java spec (like Android does). You cannot be Java unless you pass the TCK but Oracle will not make that freely available (this is the concern that caused Apache to recently withdraw from the Java Community Process).

I also happen to think that Mono/.NET is a nicer environment than anything else I might use. That, of course, is just an opinion.

What is not an opinion is that I can write (and reuse) C# code on Android, iOS, Windows Phone, the web, Linux, Mac, Windows, and embedded micro-electronics. There is simply no other alternative that will allow me to do that. That is just a fact.
@tanishaj As for Mono, you may have no problem as long as you use Novell (and maybe now Xamarin, because they have this deal with Novell) implementation, else you are in the wild. Microsoft is OK as long as you use this implementation. If you want to extend Mono for example, you will have problems. Only work with MS approved guys is what it is staying.
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That's what I thought
John L. Ries Updated - 23rd Jul
@atari_z
My understanding of MS' position is that SuSE is legitimate because MS made a deal with Novell; all other Linux distros infringe on MS' undisclosed patents (if they said exactly what infringed, someone might fix it, or worse, challenge the patents) and are therefore illegal.

The only way I would distribute software based on Mono is if I had an explicit license from MS to all .NET-related patents for myself and all of my users, or all such patents had expired (or better yet, were invalidated). If my boss wanted to do so, I'd advise him to consult a lawyer.
@atari_z Wrong.

1) The Novell deal has nothing to do with Mono. It is about Linux. Microsoft just redid the deal with SUSE (over Linux). SUSE now has nothing to do with Mono.

2) There are many patent grants directly from Microsoft concerning Mono, including the APL grants for things like ASP.NET MVC and F# and the MCP for things like the CLR and the C# language.

3) The explicit patent grants that are available to EVERYBODY (APL and MCP), along with all the estoppel inducing pro-Mono activities and communications that Microsoft engages in mean that NOBODY needs to make a patent deal with Microsoft to use Mono safely.

4) The Novell deal had nothing to do with .NET and Mono. I feel like this has to be repeated over and over because some people never seem to hear it.

5) In a funny bit of irony, Oracle may lose their patent case against Google (Android) because of estoppel. Turns out that the CEO of Sun publicly endorsed the use of Android in a blog post. Google has now added this to their list of defenses. It is not just Microsoft that loses the power of their patents if they endorse a third-party implementation

You logic is 'out in the wild'.
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Message has been deleted.
tanishaj Updated - 23rd Jul

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