ie8 fix
madison

Did Intel rig test or out engineer AMD/ATI?

By | March 14, 2007, 3:42am PDT

When Humphrey Cheung at TG Daily wrote a glowing review of Intel's G965 embedded graphics chipset beating an AMD/ATI X1600 dedicated graphics board on a video playback quality test, AMD cried foul, and other journalists echoed some concerns with the massively one-sided test. That prompted Cheung to write a follow-up article, "Did Intel rig its integrated graphics chip demo against AMD?" The test in question is the HQV benchmark and more specifically, the interlacing test, which shows a US flag blowing in the wind–the worst-case scenario for interlacing artifacts.

Interlacing is a grotesque artifact of video that was shown using an every-other-line approach, typically with 60 fields (30 frames) a second. In that test, Intel passed in spectacular fashion using special optimizations in Cyberlink's ClearVideo acceleration and smoothing routines that were optimized for the Intel G965, while the AMD/ATI X1600 failed miserably with the built-in DVD playback software included with Windows Vista. This raised some serious suspicions, and Cheung wrote:

But we aren't the only ones who were puzzled at the side-by-side comparison because Intel showed the same demo to other journalists, journalists who have told us that they will also run their own tests. Scott Wasson, editor in chief of The Tech Report, emailed us saying that his lab guys are testing out the card and will publish the results in a future article. Another editor, Charlie Demerjian from the Inquirer, said that the demo looked strange and told us that they may do their own testing. As a side note, Charlie told us that he offered to bring an AMD to the demo to help Intel correctly configure the computers, but Intel, as you can imagine, declined.

While Intel representatives insist that everything was configured correctly, AMD officials say the opposite. Will Willis, AMD's senior public relations manager, told TG Daily, "The X1600 is unquestionably a much better card for video playback." He added that it's easy to cherry-pick tests that make one product look worse than the other. "We want to let the world know that this one test is not the whole story," Willis said.

To prove his point, AMD cranked up its internal testing labs and didn't use just the flag demo, but all the tests in the HQV benchmark suite. Unlike the Intel demo, though, it played back video from the built-in player/DVD decoder of the 32-bit version of Windows Vista instead of the Cyberlink player. According to Willis, the G965 was thoroughly trounced, in HQV benchmark scores, by the X1600. He also stressed that the scores came from drivers that are currently available as compared to Intel's upcoming driver.

So it sounds like we have a smoking gun against Intel right? Well not quite, and I'll explain why. Not a single person in the above quote addressed the issue of severe interlacing head on, though Scott Wasson said he was going to conduct some tests. AMD basically ran a bunch of benchmarks and said that it received a much higher score than Intel, which is to be expected when you're benchmarking a discrete graphics adapter in the $120 range against embedded Intel graphics costing around $30. But nowhere did AMD's Will Willis address the issue of video playback quality and the grotesque interlacing problem other than to call this "cherry-picking tests". The problem is that video quality is a key criterion for the enjoyment of DVD movies, and it isn't cherry-picking to point out severe Interlacing problems. So the real question is: Is there an interlacing problem or not?

Some of you might say that I'm treating AMD with too much of a critical eye. I'm going to say not so, because I'm privy to information that the journalists quoted above aren't. Some of you may recall when I posted my Long list of bugs that delayed my adoption of Windows Vista two months ago; one of my complaints was about interlacing problems in DVD playback. In fact, the problem was universal in ATI, NVIDIA, and Intel (in Vista's default DVD player/codec) for some DVD titles, and I even managed to get confirmation from Microsoft that this is a known issue. Here's what a Microsoft spokesperson told me regarding the interlacing problem:

The DVD playback issue you’re experiencing is a known issue and Microsoft is actively investigating it.

Windows Vista is actually the first version of Windows that comes with DVD playback capability and it works fine for the most part.  Its primary weakness is how it handles interlacing problems in some DVD titles, which were mostly widescreen video-source anamorphic titles in my experience and confirmed by Microsoft. While I didn't use an HQV interlacing test, it would likely cause major artifact problems, which is what Humphrey Cheung witnessed in Intel's demonstration. Was this caused by deliberate sabotage on Intel's part? My personal experiences with playback problems across all video card platforms, including ATI, and Microsoft's confirmation seems to fly in the face of that possibility.

Intel got around this problem by working closely with one of the dominant DVD playback software companies, Cyberlink, and to optimize Cyberlink DVD playback software with Intel hardware, which is just good engineering. The fact that AMD/ATI didn't do so is AMD's problem–unless Cyberlink went out of its way to cripple those optimizations for ATI hardware, and Intel is implicated in a conspiracy with Cyberlink. If AMD believes it has a case against Intel and Cyberlink, it can take it before the courts like it did for Skype. Last year, when Skype admitted to me that it had programmatically blocked lower-end Intel and all AMD chips from using 10-way conferencing, I sounded the alarm to my colleague Russell Shaw, and he ran with the story. That case was a slippery slope because it's one thing to not optimize for a certain piece of hardware but it's another to go out of your way to programmatically cripple hardware to make it appear that one brand is more capable than the other. Now I'm not saying Intel was in a conspiracy with Skype or with Cyberlink, but the Skype case seemed to be a bit shady, and the courts will need to work that one out.  As for this case, and barring any new court challenges from AMD, this seems to be a case of better engineering rather than a rigged demo.

I'm going to follow up with Intel, AMD, and Microsoft to get to the bottom of this problem, and I've requested lab demos from Intel and AMD in their Silicon Valley campuses.  Ultimately, the user doesn't care whose fault the problem is; they just want their DVDs to look good.

Poll

Do you think Intel rigged the demo or out engineered AMD/ATI?

.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Disclosure

George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?page_id=557

Biography

George Ou

George Ou, a former ZDNet blogger, is an IT consultant specializing in Servers, Microsoft, Cisco, Switches, Routers, Firewalls, IDS, VPN, Wireless LAN, Security, and IT infrastructure and architecture.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
45
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

Ex-Intel Contractor -- Network Performance Lab
sydpdx 13th Apr 2007
My personal opinion from working at a performance lab at Intel is that the results are probably correct. I've personally witnessed competitor data being cherry picked or being completely wrong at least in network performance.

I can't vouch for every single department at Intel, but the culture there is not that hard-core about going to market with sloppy results. I really do have faith in Intel quality. On the other hand, the price of Intel work has been a little higher, but I think that is due to the quality of the products.

Interestingly enough I own both AMD X2 and an Intel dual core processor on two machines -- one is ATI/Crossfire and the other is NVIDIA/NForce/SLI. When it comes to stability, I have had no issues at all with the Intel based system -- but I have had some issues with NVidia's GeForce 7900/NForce4 due to hardware issue with the nv4_dsp.dll "Blue Screen of Death". Then there was the AMD Dual Core patch which had to fix a timing issue with some games.

On the ATI/Intel side, no issues at all.
0 Votes
+ -
This could easily play either way
nucrash 14th Mar 2007
Oh, and the X1600 is more like a $100 dollar video card, as opposed to a $200 dollar Video Card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121056

I know that some are easily more expensive, but base price is still around $130 and the card is a pretty sweet performer in Windows XP.
0 Votes
+ -
Bias
gdude@... 14th Mar 2007
As in every article you write it is biased against AMD. I take all your rantings as a grain of salt, but its good for a laugh!
0 Votes
+ -
Defend at all costs
dragosani 14th Mar 2007
One thing about George, he will defend his favorite side no matter how badly his reputation takes a beating.

Will this be another Apple Wireless Hack Fiasco or will George get luck?

It should only take a couple of days.
Sure, and that's why I slammed Intel on Skype when I didn't even have to bring it in as a factor in this story. You're a genious plain. You can't deal with the fact that there is an interlacing problem and that even Microsoft admits to one. You can't deal with the fact that AMD won't address the interlacing issue.
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
nomorems Updated - 14th Mar 2007
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
NoMoreMS,
nucrash 14th Mar 2007
How about no more BS?

I want to know about this. I want to know how Intel nitpicked AMD apart to show they had a better intregated card or if it was a driver situation.

And I do respect George Ou as a journalist. He is trying to investigate this matter and you want him to stop so he doesn't find out if ATI just hosed up Vista Drivers.
Seems like everyone has a problem with Vista default and only 3rd party solutions have gone the extra step. In this case, it's between Cyberlink and Intel.

The only way I see a problem is if Cyberlink programmatically disabled visual quality in ATI graphics cards EVEN though it had the capability. If it's simply a matter of routines that were geared for Intel because Intel went the extra mile, that's just good engineering.
0 Votes
+ -
result they set out to find.

It's a well worn cliche in the research world that a good scientist can pretty much prove any hypothesis they set out to. The problem with that in product revirews is it is usually easy for another scientist to then set out and subsequently prove the inverse.

So you then end up with a case of he said, he said, and the consumer is left to wonder how the two diametrically opposite PoVs can both be true. This causes blowback on the researchers in the form of a deterioration of their reputation, but it's really the consumer that pays the price in the form of confusion about what to buy.

Take this type of "experiment" out of the hands of the marketing department and leave it up to, oh, I don't know, say, an unbiased journalist (if there are any journalists left who are uncompromised, that is) and maybe you can get some sort of useable results.

As it is, you get this Fox news-style "Did they cheat it, or didn't they?" approach to reportage. Like Fox, it's about as newsworthy as 99% of the garbage that winds up on the air.

Thanks for muddying the waters a bit. Have a nice day.
0 Votes
+ -
This isn't so black and white
nucrash 15th Mar 2007
Did Cyberlink work with Intel and fix the drivers for interlacing issues with Vista?

Was AMD left out?

Does the Intel Card simply perform better than AMD?

Benchmarks can be screwy. For Example, when you are thinking you want to Benchmark an old Mac against an old Intel? You can optimize an application to work better on POWER or optimize it to work better on x86.

Then we have ATI vs nVidia a couple years back during the 9700 Pro vs the FX 5600. We had nVidia cards that were blazing through the benchmarks, but looking like crap when they played an actual game.
0 Votes
+ -
why dont you read the article again
code_Warrior 14th Mar 2007
Seriously, I dont think you've even read the article completely and you start foaming at the mouth.
0 Votes
+ -
So this is really a review of Cyberlink
kyron.gustafson@... 14th Mar 2007
It appears that this article is not so much about how great Intel's embedded graphics performs on DVD playback. It's how Cyberlink can even optimize DVD playback for low end embedded graphics sets created by Intel.

As this requires special optimized software is seems clear that this was not a fair test for comparing graphics systems.

Hopefully this will spur AMD/ATI and Nvidia to develop better DVD playback software. George is right, Microsoft hasn't provided us with the best Vista playback solution for wide screen DVD's (it's free, and you get what you pay for).
0 Votes
+ -
It's a differentiator for Intel
georgeou 14th Mar 2007
It's a differentiator for Intel and the user gets a better product. However, Cyberlink would serve their own customer base better if they optimized for the generic case rather than the specific case and I suspect that they will eventually optimize for everyone. If Intel went the extra mile and helped Cyberlink on development, that's good engineering as long as nothing was done to sabotage ATI or any one else such as the Skype case. Skype's case was programmatic sabotage, whether Intel was involved or not is up to the courts to decide.
0 Votes
+ -
Apples and Crabapples
bkinsey@... 14th Mar 2007
Intel's test demonstrates that Cyberlink's optmized player outperforms Vista's built-in capability. That's it. Doesn't say jack about Intel vs AMD/ATI as run. The test wasn't "rigged", it just wasn't a valid test of what they claimed to be testing. Rather like drag racing two cars, one with a highly tuned aftermarket nitrous system, the other with stock injectors - the results aren't going to say much about the cars themselves, are they?

AMD's counter test was at least head to head graphics performance. You're right that it didn't address the interlacing issue, but if, as you point out, interlacing is a problem with the default Vista playback regardless of video card, how are they going to test it? "Mine sucks less than yours!"? Run the test using the Cyberlink player on both systems, maybe, which would presumably show off the "optimization" advantage Intel has. But again, that's Cyberlink, not Intel.

The only real victor here would be Cyberlink, who has shown they can optimize a player to overcome Vista's playback issues.
0 Votes
+ -
Apples and Crabapples
cyanblade 14th Mar 2007
I have to agree with you on this one. I wonder how well the Intel graphics chip did "with the built-in DVD playback software included with Windows Vista"?

The least that could have been done was to run the test on both chips with the Cyberlink software. However, since Cyberlink has optimized for the Intel chip, we already know that would have been an invalid comparison of the graphics chips as well.

More disturbing perhaps is the interlace problem with DVD playback in Vista. Is there a lack of information about DVD standards that lead Microsoft to this embarrassing error, or were they just doing their typical half-hearted implementation with the expectation to fix it later if someone complained?
And in the end they came up short
0 Votes
+ -
I gave the answer in the blog
georgeou 14th Mar 2007
NO ONE does well with Vista default and ONLY Intel did well with Cyberlink. From the user's standpoint, Cyberlink + Intel = good image quality. Is this a result of good engineering by Intel or sabotage by Intel/Cyberlink on ATI hardware? I would tend to think it's the former since the latter would be obvious and very risky legally.
0 Votes
+ -
You did?
bkinsey@... 14th Mar 2007
I didn't, and still don't, see anywhere in the blog that references testing the Cyberlink player with the AMD/ATI video card. For Intel's intial test, it says:

". . .the AMD/ATI X1600 failed miserably with the built-in DVD playback software included with Windows Vista"

and

"Intel passed in spectacular fashion using special optimizations in Cyberlink's ClearVideo acceleration and smoothing routines that were optimized for the Intel G965"

While AMD's testing says:

"Unlike the Intel demo, though, it played back video from the built-in player/DVD decoder of the 32-bit version of Windows Vista instead of the Cyberlink player."

Implying that BOTH cards used the built-in player. So unless there's something there I don't see, that means Intel/Cyberlink beats AMD/Vista, and AMD/Vista beats Intel/Vista. Who has tested AMD/Cyberlink versus Intel/Cyberlink?
I still have problems with ATI in my PC with Cyberlink and I have to manually configure force weave/bob to make the problem less prominent but never really solved. It's either extremely UGLY or a little ugly.
0 Votes
+ -
Okay
bkinsey@... 14th Mar 2007
Ok, then that says that it's Intel's work with Cyberlink to optimize the player for their card that makes the difference. As someone else said, I don't see that as cheating, per se. It would have made for a better test to use the same player for each card when Intel did it, but oh well. . .

Cyberlink should be willing to do the same for anyone else, however, if they want marketshare as THE player for Vista - I doubt the G965 makes it into as many multi-media machines as various ATI and nVidia cards, regardless of how well it solves a problem exhibited by SOME DVD's. Of course, MS could step in and fix the problem with Vista first.
The same player was used, and ATI had problems on Cyberlink. I personally have problems with Cyberlink and ATI visual quality even if I manually tweak it. If I don't manually tweak it then it looks grotesque.
0 Votes
+ -
couple of thoughts
mtgarden 14th Mar 2007
First. George, this was a well written article that did not come across as bashing anyone. I like AMD/ATI as well as the next guy, but if Intel makes a better product, then they make a better product. Anyway, despite what some previous posters might have ascribed to you, not all of us see you as a shill or biased. Keep up the good work.

Second. While I don't know much about this issue, it would seem that Intel provided new drivers optimized for a specially piece of software and/or got information on how to optimize their chip to a specific piece of software. So what? Every hardware/software manufacturer has done this with every "test" ever performed. If Apple was running the tests against Intel, amazingly Apple always had a better chip in the PPC. If Intel ran the test against Apple, then Amazingly the P4 was better than the PPC.

So on and so forth. Everyone optimizes to sell their product. I don't even see a reason to assume that this might have been a collaboration to discredit and/or harm AMD/ATI. Why would I go there? I wouldn't without good reason. And one stupid test isn't a good reason.
0 Votes
+ -
You are right
georgeou 14th Mar 2007
You are right and thanks for your balanced comments.

I will say one thing though; the interlacing problem is visually UGLY and it bothers the hell out of me. We've been dealing with these problems for nearly a decade and they were sometimes solved in the late 90s with 300 MHz PCs. There's no excuse for this issue and the industry in general is lagging. Intel has raised a real issue and hopefully this will shame the other manufacturers to get in to line.
0 Votes
+ -
Deinterlacing algorithms are proprietary. Its not simply the case that Intel worked closely with Cyberlink, which it may have done. It is possible that Intel has a better deinterlacing algorithm than ATI/AMD. A better algorithm will make for a better test result, no matter whether it is a discrete graphics card or an integrated card.
0 Votes
+ -
Typical Intel
wizardb@... 14th Mar 2007
They can't out engineer so they try to beat the competition with FUD.Sounds a lot like their ex best friends Microsoft doesn't it?
0 Votes
+ -
Why would anybody rig a contest unless they already genuinely feared an otherwise inferior competitive ranking?
0 Votes
+ -
Didn't run the same test, so it's fixed...
"Mysterious 14th Mar 2007
The strict definition of "benchmarking" is that you run the same test on both devices to see what comes up. Running an "optimized" driver that's not even available to the public on your own chip, and running a driver with a known issue on the competitor's chip is just plain wrong, and certainly cannot be mistaken for a benchmark. Is Intel a batch of lying sacks of garbage? The evidence says they are. Is Cyberlink colluding with Intel? Probably, as it's difficult to say no when the Nazis have their jackboots on your neck. Is George a shill for the Wintel Alliance? You betcha. Isn't he the same hack who came up with the "Windows is faster than Linux because it boots up quicker" nonsense? Shill, shill, shill. Besides, who shows anything interlaced in this day and age? Only somebody who was hunting for some way to cheat. Intel is getting desperate, and I'm all for hastening their demise by specifying only AMD/ATI devices from now on. I invite all right-thinking engineers to do the same. And now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go remove Skype from every machine in my company. I don't like cheaters, and don't believe they should prosper on my account.
So you're mistaken.
0 Votes
+ -
I have a lovely wide screen monitor on my desk, but I prefer to watch DVD movies on the big Toshiba in the living room, so interlacing isn't a problem for me.

As others have pointed out, this issue isn't so much an Intel v AMD contest as it is a Cyberlink v Microsoft contest. Microsoft lost this round. It may take till SP2 for Vista, but the interlacing problem on DVD playback will be fixed - don't you agree?
0 Votes
+ -
That's the problem here. Some of us do use PCs with big screen DLPs attached or 1366x768 LCDs attached. In those situations this is a major issue.

The Cyberlink optimizations only work for P965. I can make the ATI cards look a little better manually but even in the "better" setting it still doesn't look that good.
0 Votes
+ -
So nVidia cards look bad too?
WiredGuy 15th Mar 2007
If the Cyberlink optimizations work only on the Intel P965 chipset then nVidia based cards would have the same problem as ATI cards running that software, right?
0 Votes
+ -
I haven't tried that combo
georgeou 15th Mar 2007
I've tried NVIDIA on Vista default player/codec and it had interlacing problems. Someone told me their $600 NVIDIA card had interlacing problems too. The point is that this is a real quality problem that everyone seems to be ignoring and Intel decided to make it a differentiator.
0 Votes
+ -
Without any additional research (which might be a bit unfair) I would say that the interlace problem is really a Vista problem. In this isolated case with this particular Intel chipset and the Cyberlink software, a user will have a better picture. I'm actually glad to hear that because early on, the G965 was said to be slower than the chipset it replaced.

In any case, Intel has a leg up over nVidia and ATI (if the user has the Cyberlink software).

I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of Vista users will be pining for the fix from Microsoft that solve the interlace problem for all video chipsets.
0 Votes
+ -
no optimisation
w3nd13 15th Mar 2007
dear george... you are not a biased shill and i enjoy your articles so i signed up to telly my thoughts on this matter. true comparison between intel and amd would have been not to use the optimised cyberlink software. the test performed in its current guise only shows that if you optimise for a particular setting and it works then it will look better. this test cannot be used to compare amd and intel in any way. there is no comparison that can be a between the two. regardless if intel and cyberlink teamed up to optimise the hardware and software to run together it holds no ground against amd unless cyberlink optimises for amd also. then a comparison would be valid.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks, but here's the problem
georgeou 15th Mar 2007
Cyberlink is often bundled with DVD burner drives and new computers so there is a good chance it comes with a new PC. If Cyberlink works better with Intel g965 and not ATI/AMD, isn't that an advantage with Intel?

Secondly, if a dirt cheap embedded graphics card can do a good job on DVD deinterlacing, shouldn't the rest of the expensive graphics cards from ATI and NVIDIA be able to do so also? Shouldn't Microsoft do something about this problem too? Isn't this a legitimate issue for consumers?
0 Votes
+ -
agreed
w3nd13 15th Mar 2007
hi george good to hear back from you.
Although i have never had a problem with dvd playback like you are discribing i do agree with you when you say microsoft and 3rd party vendors should address this issue in windows. i dont feel that the hardware companies 'need' to approach the software vendors to achive this if the code is written properly the first time round (it would be hardware indipendant). i dont feel that intel rigged the test as such, more that cyberlink fudged their software poorly.
0 Votes
+ -
Neither.

Intel didn't rig the test. Intel simply worked with Cyberlink to enhance the quality on specific Intel hardware. Is it advantageous for Intel? Sure, but only with one specific piece of software.

What the test actually shows is that Vista has pretty bad DVD playback capability. Expect MS to fix this in the future, and there will be no need for specific hardware and software to achieve decent DVD playback within Vista.

Not that any of this matters. There are three main reasons that DVD's and PC's meet.
1. Installing software.
2. Copying data.
3. Ripping a copy of a movie to watch on a DVD player.

Individuals will of course reorder those three reasons on an individual basis depending on their requirements.

Actually watching a DVD on a PC is a distant fourth for almost everyone.
Not if you use a PC as a DVD library hooked up to HDTV. That means DVD playback is very important.
0 Votes
+ -
I did say almost everyone.
Letophoro 16th Mar 2007
The vast majority of people will not bother to use a PC as a DVD library to begin with, never mind hooking it up to HDTV. Let's vastly overestimate the number of people that would, and call it one million. It's probably more like 50k worldwide, but I'm feeling generous.

Of those that have a PC-DVD library, maybe ten percent(wildly optimistic estimate) might use Vista today. That gives you maybe 100k people worldwide that might care about how bad Vista is when it comes to DVD playback. Even if I'm under by an order of magnitude or two (and I'm probably over), it simply does not matter to the vast majority of people.


I'm guessing you fall into that vanishingly small minority of people that Vista's cruddy playback affects. I suppose you could fix your problem by buying new hardware, installing Vista, copying all your DVD's, and installing Cyberlink's software. Alternatively, you could use some other OS, be it MS or someone else's. Or, you could wait for MS to fix the issue and obviate the need for new hardware. Whatever floats your boat.

Me, I'll just put a DVD into my DVD player. After all, that's what it's there for.
0 Votes
+ -
Though you may be overestimating
nucrash 16th Mar 2007
I was throwing my MP3 collection onto my reciever 10 years ago, back when people didn't even know what an MP3 was. WinAmp was nice because I was able to play though hundreds of songs at the time. The only thing coming close to this were those CD Jukebox type setups, but they were pretty confusing compared to my Winamp setup. I would setup a play list and not have to touch the system for the remainder of the week.

Movie Setups are now in the same boat. Why mess with taking out your DVDs and risk scratching them? Or why risk having your friends come over to leave your DVDs all over the top of your player? DVD playback systems are nice for eliminating the clutter that is a DVD Collection. Especially for $500 dollars when you can purchase around a terabyte or two to store some of the data.
0 Votes
+ -
A couple questions
Letophoro 16th Mar 2007
1. Did you mean underestimating? As in underestimating the number of ppl that might have a PC-DVD library? If so, even two orders of magnitude is still a vanishingly small minority.

2. What OS and hardware do you use for your PC-DVD library? I ask because my guess is that the vast majority are Windows MCE.

I'm not saying that PC-DVD libraries are not useful. I'm just saying that the vast majority of people don't use them. And of those that do have one, the vast majority don't use Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
Currently I am not on that Minority
nucrash 16th Mar 2007
And yes, I think very few people have a DVD library, but still, how many businessmen will be on the road with their laptop as their entertainment?

Vista not being able to play DVDs might become the bigger deal as travel season hits full swing.
0 Votes
+ -
Sorry about that.
Letophoro 16th Mar 2007
From the tone of your message, I figured that you did.

"how many businessmen will be on the road with their laptop as their entertainment?"
Plenty, but not all that many will be using Vista as yet. I expect that by the time a significant number of users start to gripe about the poor quality of playback, MS will have pushed out a fix.
0 Votes
+ -
ATI (AMD) is having HUGE problems under Vista
No_Ax_to_Grind 19th Mar 2007
The fact is ATI is having a very, very hard time building solid drivers for their video cards running on Vista. I happened to check the Drivers download page last week and they still have a notice that none of their most recent drivers for any of the All-In-Wonder cards support TV in / Capture yet.

From their web site;

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/common-vista32.html

Note: All-in-Wonder? boards operate with AMD Windows Vista-Ready Display Drivers under the Windows Vista Operating System. However there is currently no software application which provides TV/Capture functionality for All-in-Wonder? boards under Windows Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
I have a board with "VIVO" Video In Video Out capability and it doesn't work now.
0 Votes
+ -
My personal opinion from working at a performance lab at Intel is that the results are probably correct. I've personally witnessed competitor data being cherry picked or being completely wrong at least in network performance.

I can't vouch for every single department at Intel, but the culture there is not that hard-core about going to market with sloppy results. I really do have faith in Intel quality. On the other hand, the price of Intel work has been a little higher, but I think that is due to the quality of the products.

Interestingly enough I own both AMD X2 and an Intel dual core processor on two machines -- one is ATI/Crossfire and the other is NVIDIA/NForce/SLI. When it comes to stability, I have had no issues at all with the Intel based system -- but I have had some issues with NVidia's GeForce 7900/NForce4 due to hardware issue with the nv4_dsp.dll "Blue Screen of Death". Then there was the AMD Dual Core patch which had to fix a timing issue with some games.

On the ATI/Intel side, no issues at all.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix