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Intel V8 intimidates Barcelona using half the cores

By | May 30, 2007, 10:16pm PDT

AMD recently produced some impressive Barcelona 16-core (4-socket quad-core) scores of just over 4000 on the POV benchmark. Charlie Demerjian estimates that these are probably 1.8 GHz pre-production low-power 65W TDP Barcelona chips. Intel decided to put the beat-down on these Barcelona numbers by showing off their own “V8″ 3.0 GHz 8-core (2-socket quad-core) system getting a POV score of 4933. While these are peak-power 120W TDP 3.0 GHz CPUs, there are only 8 cores overtaking a 4-socket 16 core Barcelona system. Furthermore, 2-socket systems always cost less (hardware costs and software licensing) and use less power than 4-socket systems.

This is bad news for AMD because the Intel Clovertown CPUs shown in these benchmarks are from a generation of products Intel started shipping last November. While AMD’s Barcelona has the potential to be an Intel quad-core killer (if it launches on-time and in sufficient quantities at 2.8 GHz) but rumors that AMD is falling behind on schedule on Barcelona isn’t a good sign. Furthermore, Intel isn’t showing any signs of easing up their “cadence” with 45-nm High-K low-leakage “Penryn” processors launching towards the end of the year which has already shown some shocking performance numbers and pre-production clock speeds of 3.33 GHz. Intel has consistently delivered their Core 2 products on time or slightly ahead of schedule while AMD has historically been plagued with manufacturing delays.

When asked about Intel’s cadence and nanometer advantage, AMD stated that nanometers don’t matter to consumers and that they don’t buy nanometers. While it’s true that customers don’t care about CPU manufacturing and nanometer nor do they even know what a nanometer means in microprocessors, nanometers is the difference between AMD bleeding red ink and surviving Intel’s onslaught. AMD was happy when they finally released their 65-nm mainstream parts but they’re still currently struggling to shift their current high-end CPUs and mobile processors to 65-nm while Intel is already threatening to release their higher-yield 45-nm parts at the end of the year.

In the processor business, yield equals life because higher-yield parts means lower production costs and healthy profit margins. So long as Intel has a nanometer and yield advantage over AMD, they will be able to command healthy margins while pressuring AMD to bleed red ink or lose market share. AMD is fully aware of this which is why they’re pushing hard to release their own 45-nm parts based on a brand new “wet lithography” process by the middle of 2008. That seems like a very aggressive and optimistic schedule for AMD since they haven’t even completed their 65-nm transition yet, but AMD is fighting for survival and the clock is ticking.

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George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?page_id=557

Biography

George Ou

George Ou, a former ZDNet blogger, is an IT consultant specializing in Servers, Microsoft, Cisco, Switches, Routers, Firewalls, IDS, VPN, Wireless LAN, Security, and IT infrastructure and architecture.

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Get off you high horse and take a walk until you get real
Cayble 7th Jun 2007
"Meanwhile .. when it comes to snappy windows performance.
AMD wins each time.. "

I guess you cant read. Or you avoid reading when you don't like what the stories tell you.

Right now, and for the last several months whats left of an AMD processor in a CPU shoot out with a similarly priced Intel Core Duo you couldn't scrape off the bottom of a work boot.

What I don't get, do guys like you figure a bold lie will do the trick? That maybe nobody else knows anything and they will bow down to your nonsense??

Get real or go away.
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Ahh Just like the days of old
nucrash 31st May 2007
I knew the universe couldn't remain upside down for too long.

Intel is back to full throttle performance and AMD is back to sucking again, taking the second hand, low end computer.

The only difference is, now Dell and everyone else is selling AMD as well as Intel.
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In retrospect,
John Zern 31st May 2007
The only difference is, now Dell and everyone else is selling AMD as well as Intel

The whole Dell/AMD thing allways felt like they where "forced" to sell AMD chips, all the while having to defend their previous choice of being Intel only hardware.

It may now look as though if they did indeed want to go with only one processor manufacturer, they had good reason to bet their future on Intel chips.
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But they wanted to expand their market share according to the customer base.

To be honest, this is the first time I have even considered purchasing a Dell laptop. Before, I would have passed on them just based on the quality of their consumer models.

I remember that I used to buy AMD because they were cheap and I could overclock the hell out of them, but I wouldn't buy an AMD desktop because some one else was trying to overclock a stock processor and sell it for the price of a much faster CPU.
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Nanometers don't matter ?
Prognosticator 31st May 2007
AMD states that nanometers don't matter to buyers but certainly makes a big stink about how CPU cores are packaged.

I'd like to see an Intel marketing campaign that states Barcelona chips "leak current" and made with toxic substances.
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Intel is famous for rigging benchmarks..
thetruth_z 31st May 2007
They probably recoded critical areas of the benchmark in assembly. So they could use their SSE instructions to maximum effect, (but it would render an inferior picture.. )

Throw in some major overclocking.. for both CPU 3ghz and Bus 1333mhz using stuff which they aren't going to ship for a while.

Now ask yourself, what would happen if AMD cheated in the similar manor?( Cherry picked some 1.8ghz quad cores and overclocked them to 2.5 maybe 3Ghz??)


Meanwhile .. when it comes to snappy windows performance.
AMD wins each time..

Some AMD systems (Athlon 64 3000) I configured up a few years
back(XP) still run's rings around an Intel Dual core system with twice the memory I purchased six months ago.
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In a word, NO.
georgeou 31st May 2007
nt
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then..
doh123 31st May 2007
then you don't know what your doing. or your being intentionally vague to help support your favored AMD.

I have an athlon 64 3000+ machine that cant even keep up with my intel Core Duo (not Core 2). I'm guessing you intentinally said Intel Dual core system so you didnt have to tell people it was some low end Pentium-D peices of junk. If it was Core 2 Duos getting rings ran around it by an Athlon 64 3000... then you have the machine configured very badly.
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I agree
pmshah@... 7th Jun 2007
A few months back I was asked to built a few systems to run Server 2000 for a company in On Line Securities trading. Intel had just dropped the prices of their Dual core cpus with ATI 101 chip set mobo combinations to a level which appeared to be very attractive. After trying to load the system which took practically forever I had to return the whole shebang & opted for Athlon 64 & MSI motherboards with via chip sets. Believe me the systems literally flew.

Even after further drops in Core 2 Duo combos they are still not cost effective for average Joe as compared to Athlon64 3000+ or higher.

Last week I built 7 Athlon AM2 systems for an on line tricketing travel agency. The total cost of the system turned out to be less than the cost of 1.8 Core2 Duo cpu + motherboard alone. Factor in the cost of HDD, DVD-RW, Ram, Cabinet, KB/Mouse & cheapest monitors & you have a price differential of more than 25%.

So far as performance is concerned it makes no difference as it is simply text transfer on the internet.

My only wish is that AMD do something to bring down the cost of AMD compatible motherboards from independent manufacturers. That would go a long way in increasing their market share.
"Meanwhile .. when it comes to snappy windows performance.
AMD wins each time.. "

I guess you cant read. Or you avoid reading when you don't like what the stories tell you.

Right now, and for the last several months whats left of an AMD processor in a CPU shoot out with a similarly priced Intel Core Duo you couldn't scrape off the bottom of a work boot.

What I don't get, do guys like you figure a bold lie will do the trick? That maybe nobody else knows anything and they will bow down to your nonsense??

Get real or go away.
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This article is pure flame bait
TechExec2 31st May 2007
.
Since the AMD CPU speeds are undisclosed, comparing the test results to Intel's test results means absolutely nothing.

Bad news for AMD? I don't think so. Let's see what we have (which is not much):

** AMD CPUs at 1.8 GHz (Charlie Demerjian estimate). POV score 4000

** Intel CPUs at 3.0 GHz. POV score 4933

** POV scales about linear with CPU cores and clock speed

** So, the AMD CPUs at 3.0 GHz would score about 6,667 ((3.0/1.8)*4000)

None of this really matters because we don't have the real CPUs to test and compare with!

This article is pure flame bait.
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We're talking 8 Intel Clovertown (released last year) cores against 16 AMD (yet-to-be released) Barcelona cores.
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And what happens...
Robert Crocker 31st May 2007
when all of those Intel cores try to cram onto the poor memory bus at once?
Going from 1 thread to 8 threads, Intel's 40% clock-for-clock advantage in the Core 2 architecture drops to -10% against AMD. Problem is that Intel has a much higher clock speed and their Quad Core chips have been on the market since Nov 2006. AMD still can't launch their quad core. Furthermore, hammering 8 cores at 100% is the very rare case compared to single threaded tasks bursting to 100%.

So basically AMD went after the fancy exotic architecture that caters to the HPC and 4-socket market and that's where they dominate. Unfortunately that market is so tiny that AMD is bleeding badly. Intel dominates in the 1-2 socket market where all the money is made because of market size.

However, Intel knows that they can't keep using brute-force FSB and Cache forever which is why they're launching Nahalem later next year. Then things get very interesting and scary for AMD.
Sure Intel probably has more fabrication and can push the product out the door
faster. But AMD is a professional at tripping over their own two feet. They are just a
bit out of practice on how to do it since they haven't since 2003.

Good thing is that Intel isn't trying to turn this into a Core War like they appeared to
earlier.

They want to get more out of fewer cores. Good for the consumer and bad for the
software companies that want to license by the core.
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Interesting analysis
Robert Crocker 1st Jun 2007
So basically AMD went after the fancy exotic architecture that caters to the HPC and 4-socket market and that's where they dominate.

And Intel's kludge of jamming two dual-core chips into one socket isn't an attempt to break into that market?

If anything, the growing emphasis on server virtualization will make your burst scenario rather scarce. (The whole idea behind virtualization is to of course get away from lots of idle CPU's.)

I'll be interested in your analysis when Intel does launch Nahalem later next year. Will you be certain to point out that this will be Intel's first attempt into this market while AMD has had years and years of experience at it?
That's not 4-socket, but it does steal market share from AMD since the Intel 2-sockets quad cores are half the price (hardware and software licensing) and half the power consumption at 80-90% the performance level. Furthermore, you will always get better yields with dual-die over single-die quad cores because you can mix and match dies. Yield in this business equals life.

The strategy was so successful that AMD's execs have publicly stated they wished they had done a dual-die design.

"I'll be interested in your analysis when Intel does launch Nahalem later next year. Will you be certain to point out that this will be Intel's first attempt into this market while AMD has had years and years of experience at it?"

Didn't I say that here already? Not sure what your problem is.
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.
I didn't forget anything. I was just playing along with this silly comparison involving pre-release CPUs and undisclosed CPU speeds.

Two additional points:

1. I think we should wait for what Intel and AMD actually release and stop trying to count one or the other as defeated before they even get into the ring.

2. I think we should stop trying to hope Intel destroys AMD, or AMD destroys Intel. I don't want to see either one knocked out of the market. If either one were ever defeated, the price of the cheap CPU would be $1000.
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When did anyone "hope" to destroy AMD. I'm reporting the news that AMD is getting battered. I never said I hope AMD would die.
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Not in so many words
pmshah@... 7th Jun 2007
but the undertone is there. You are trying to reduce SMD to "also ran"
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Contributr
Hardly...
mrdatahs 1st Jun 2007
I hardly think this is flame bait...AMD has pushed Intel to crank out better, faster, cheaper products in a very timely fashion. Serious competition will do that to you, even if you're a giant like Intel. If there is any sign (and there are actually quite a few signs recently) that AMD is struggling to be competitive, then that's bad news for them and worse news for those of us who rely on competition to keep prices low and performance high.

Chris Dawson
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Intimidate?
jmmichigan@... 5th Jun 2007
Just curious how one piece of plastic and silicon 'intimidates' another one?
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Here's your bias, again!
Bill F. 5th Jun 2007
You report rumor as fact, but do not quote the people you have rumors about. AMD says its not true, that it's on schedule.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39985
You can read it there.

You report that AMD is 'struggling' with getting their 'high end' CPU's into 65 nm. Dude, that's all they are making now.
You can read that here also.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38495

You say they are 'bleeding red ink'. OK, put up or shutup. That says they are losing money. Prove it with a public statement that backs what you say or retract what you said.

So what we really have here is a comparison of two 'lash-ups' of not publically available processors that showed Intel won and you have an excuse to excercise your WELL KNOWN bias against AMD by engaging in rumor-mongering.

The other poster is right, you are nothing but flame-bait.

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