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Will AMD's fastest CPU be obsolete next month?

By | June 5, 2006, 1:07am PDT

Summary: When I saw the first set of independent benchmark results pitting a mid-end Intel E6600 “Conroe” 2.4 GHz CPU (due next month) against the just released flagship Extreme Edition AMD FX-62 CPU, I started wondering if AMD worst nightmare was coming true. Intel’s ~$250 E6600 CPU annihilated AMD’s ~$1000 Extreme Edition AM2 based FX-62! This effectively means that AMD’s flagship desktop performance CPU will be obsolete by the end of next month when Intel released the CPUs codenamed Conroe. The 2.4 GHz Conroe E6600 CPU is a 65 watt part while Intel’s Extreme Edition Conroe CPU will operate at 2.93 GHz and still be 40 watts lower than AMD’s FX-62 which runs at 120 watt TPD. AMD’s power advantage over Intel’s current Pentium 4 NetBurst architecture just vanished in to thin air with the introduction of Intel’s Core 2 architecture next month.

When I attended AMD technology day last Thursday, senior AMD managers poked fun at Intel’s NetBurst architecture and the fact that Intel will be "going back to their previous generation architecture, and that would be an improvement".  Most of the industry analysts in attendance began to laugh in the room and I couldn’t quite figure out what’s so funny and if they would still be laughing next month when Intel’s Core2 architecture is released.

I asked some senior AMD managers what they were going to do It is beginning to look more and more certain that Intel’s Core 2 architecture will "leap ahead"… when Intel releases their Core2 architecture next month and what they thought of the dire initial benchmarks posted at AnandTech and the response was "who set up the benchmarks" and more laughter ensued throughout the room.  What everyone was laughing about was the fact that Intel had actually set up the test bed for those initial benchmarks, but what’s forgotten is that AnandTech (responding to readers and critics) made Intel change certain aspects of Intel’s test bed to address perceived inequities in the first set of tests.  I say "perceived" inequities because in the end the changes didn’t make a bit of difference and the results were just as bad for AMD’s simulated FX-62 (without the faster socket and memory).  Since these results were theoretical because the actual AM2 based FX-62 with faster memory access weren’t being used and the test bed wasn’t completely independent, we couldn’t draw any decisive conclusions.

So last Friday when I saw the first set of independent benchmark results pitting a mid-end Intel E6600 "Conroe" 2.4 GHz CPU (due next month) against the just released flagship extreme edition AMD FX-62 CPU, I started wondering if AMD worst nightmare was coming true.  Intel’s ~$250 E6600 CPU annihilated AMD’s ~$1000 Extreme Edition AM2 based FX-62!  This effectively means that AMD’s flagship desktop performance CPU will be obsolete by the end of next month when Intel released the CPUs codenamed Conroe.  The 2.4 GHz Conroe E6600 CPU is a 65 watt part while Intel’s Extreme Edition Conroe CPU will operate at 2.93 GHz and still be 40 watts lower than AMD’s FX-62 which runs at 120 watt TDP.  AMD’s power advantage over Intel’s current Pentium 4 NetBurst architecture just vanished in to thin air with the introduction of Intel’s Core 2 architecture next month.

If that wasn’t enough of a beating, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes who writes for our new "Hardware 2.0" blog linked to these phenomenal overclocking feats with the Conroe 2.4 and Conroe 2.6 GHz CPUs clocking to 4.0 GHz and 4.26 GHz respectively!  I’m hearing that these kinds of numbers can be achieved with self-contained water coolers from multiple sources while the AMD FX-62 can barely get to 3.6 GHz with sub-zero temperatures.  As Adrian pointed out, even AMD’s "4×4" which is two dual core CPUs and two dual core GPUs is a stop gap measure that won’t be practical since you can do just as well with a single mid-end Conroe 2.6 GHz CPU clocked to 4.26 GHz at 1/6th the price in CPU cost.

While I’m still eager to see more independent results that replicate these results, it is beginning to look more and more certain that Intel’s Core 2 architecture will "leap ahead" as Intel’s new slogan implies.  AMD pointed out that they’ve been ahead of the game for 3 years (on most benchmarks and the results were always close) and it’s inevitable for Intel to have a slight lead once in a while.  The problem here is that this new Intel lead is not the usual leapfrogging where one competitor edges out the other, it’s a massive lead across the board!  AMD will be shifting to a 65 nm process by the end of the year and adding 128 bit floating point processors by the middle of next year though it’s not certain if they can make a massive performance gain while making a massive reduction in power consumption.

Intel on the other hand told me that they won’t be standing still and they don’t ever intend to make the same mistake of allowing the NetBurst architecture to stay around for more than 4 years again.  The Core 2 architecture will only be around for 2 more years until Intel shifts to something new.  I asked Intel’s representative if this is the kind of paranoia that would make Andy Grove proud and he laughed.  The truth of the matter is that AMD is what’s making Intel paranoid because they’ve taken a beating for the last 2 years at the hands of AMD.  Who’s going to win the processor wars doesn’t matter because this is competition at its best and the consumer is the ultimate winner with better products at lower prices so let the wars begin!

[Update: 2:10 PM] David berlind wonders whether Intel has forever neutralized AMD’s integrated memory controller advantage.

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Disclosure

George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?page_id=557

Biography

George Ou

George Ou, a former ZDNet blogger, is an IT consultant specializing in Servers, Microsoft, Cisco, Switches, Routers, Firewalls, IDS, VPN, Wireless LAN, Security, and IT infrastructure and architecture.

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RE: Will AMD's fastest CPU be obsolete next month?
Jonhsonson 6th Nov
Every time you achieve a hinder, you may perhaps advance for full approval as of
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In all semi-verifiable tests of the 3GHZ Woodcrest (which is just Conroe in server)arranged by Intel itself, the chip is barely faster than Opteron 285 (2.6GHZ).
http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/05/3ghz-woodcrest-against-26ghz-opteron.html

In fact, Intel had to compare the 3GHZ Woodcrest against 2.2GHZ Opteron to show its chip in good light.

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/05/more-on-intels-woodcrest-performance.html

So far, all Conroe benchmarks are controlled by Intel. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/04/preview_intel_core_2_duo/
Unlike AnandTech, hardware sites are reluctant to serve as Intel's PR machine any more.

For power consumption, Intel is aiming at 130 watts for Conroe XE.

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/intel-runs-into-thermal-wall-again.html

Intel better make Conroe 40% faster than K8, otherwise, the company will go belly up. The Conroe hype already caused 40% price decline of Intel CPUs and 20% decline of volume.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32136

But even at 40% better performance (which is impossible, I tell you), Intel will be far below AMD's 4x4 platform in performance.

4x4 will pin Intel permanently at half of AMD's performance.
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Nope, got some facts wrong
georgeou 5th Jun 2006
The Woodcrest benchmarks heavily favor Intel over Opteron under the benchmarks I've seen.

"For power consumption, Intel is aiming at 130 watts for Conroe XE."

That's just flat wrong. Woodcrest at 3 GHz is only 80 watts TPD.

"4x4 will pin Intel permanently at half of AMD's performance."

First of all, a single overclocked Conroe 2.6 GHz CPUs will match that CPU performance. What makes you think Intel can't murder them even more with a dual socket configuration?
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More Ou-Stats?
Robert Crocker 5th Jun 2006
When in doubt drag out the overclocking now?

Listen, if the chip was designed to run at those speed then Intel would sell them rated to those speeds.

The fact that you can drive the chip that much faster doesn't do anything to address what design issues Intel has seen that makes them think that the chip should only be rated for the 2.6 GHz they're selling it at.
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its not design issues
doh123 6th Jun 2006
they clock them low for the same reason they made Netburst.... marketing.

why sell you a 3.5ghz version when they can sell you a 2.4ghz version, and a year and ahalf from now then sell you a 3.5ghz version?

Its good for making money, as the 2.4ghz will be good enough for the competition at the time its released.
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Anyone knows people still look at clock speeds. A 4GHz chip for $200 is simply going to appear more attractive than a 2GHz chip at $400. I seriously doubt they would artificially suppress the true clock speeds.
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but
doh123 7th Jun 2006
but when the 2GHz chip outperforms the competition, and no one has the 4GHz chip for sale, they arent going to sell it right now, that makes them less money in the long run and more overhead in beating themselves in the future so people will need to buy new again.
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it's not marketing
mk76 7th Jun 2006
Intel doesn't "clock them low" for marketing purposes. They rate the CPU at 2.6 GHz because of a big design issue. It's called POWER.

The chip is rated at the frequency at which it can run and still meet the requirements of the platform. At 65W, given current technology and processor reliability limits, 2.6GHz is what you get. Sure, you can overclock it...but it doesn't do Intel any good to underclock their processors when they're competing to regain the performance edge over AMD.
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Even so, AMD has had better luck with the intregated memory controller. Something that Intel still doesn't plan on releasing.

I personally hope to reap from this when AMD drops the price on their Athlon X2 chips. I have a socket 939 board at home craving an upgrade
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Contributr
From a marketing perspective, maybe. Reality, no way!
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George, please read the news
sharikou 5th Jun 2006
Not everyone is so gullible as to believe Intel's own "setup". I provided the links to test data, why don't you just read them?

1) Woodcrest/Clovertown benchmarks
Clovertown (quad-Conroe) http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/clovertown-scores-revealed.html

3GHZ Woodcrest vs 2.6GHZ Opteron

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2487

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/05/3ghz-woodcrest-against-26ghz-opteron.html (more detail)

Intel's fraud:

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/05/more-on-intels-woodcrest-performance.html

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/conroe-performance-claim-being-busted.html

2) Conroe XE up to 130 watts
This is off the mouth of Intel's David Tuhy, who just demoed a liquid cooled Conroe XE to a reporter in June.

See links and discussion at

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/intel-runs-into-thermal-wall-again.html

3) "What makes you think Intel can't murder them even more with a dual socket configuration?"

Even Intel fanboys know Intel can't put together a cost effective and performing dual socket platform for desktop. 4x4 is basically 4 way computing(4 cores), AMD rules once you go to 4 cores and up. Conroe is an improvement of the execution engine in single threaded loads, once you have 4 cores, Intel's shared FSB can only give 250MHZ to each of the core. That's why AMD owns 48% of the 4 way server market. I told you that 4x4 will pin Intel at about half of AMD's performance for the forseeable future. Just believe me. Judging from your comments above, you don't have enough background on computer science to actually understand most of the topic. This also shows Intel can easily mislead and deceive non-technical people with bogus claims.

For discussion on 4x4, see the comments area in the following pages

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/intel-runs-into-thermal-wall-again.html

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/amd-does-4x4-desktop-computing.html
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One Intel processor beating AMD AM2 FX-62 processor!!!???

HAAA!!!! grin grin grin Maybe!!! grin

Sorry for my lame comment but the thing about Intel...I don't know... Proving thier own bunchmarks? No proof.

Sorry Intel! I'm glad you have good overhyping skills! I love it when you mislead non-technical and technical people like me but not any more because I will take any of your most expensive processor home and burn up your processor any time!!!! grin grin grin
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Every time I read stuff from this website (Journal of Pervasive 64 bit Computing) it comes across as being at odds with everything else on the web. To me that implies a great deal of either "wishful thinking" or outright B.S.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1185

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhhGud47TI

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5692

http://tinyurl.com/hwtu2

http://tinyurl.com/g4qt3

And there are more. Personally I don?t care which CPU is better, I would just like to know which one. And then there is price to consider. A CPU that is 15% better in performance and 50% more expensive is a poor buy, unless you are well off and price is no object. This is particularly true today where most of the top CPU?s from both AMD and Intel when paired with a good GPU and performance memory provides lightning quick response in any case. For most people paying 50% more for a CPU that is currently overkill in performance standards is worthless.

If Intel can make a CPU that?s even close to AMD?s top performers and is noticeably cheaper Intel is the hands down winner.
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Did you miss the newer benchmarks?
sharikou 5th Jun 2006
This one, by famous pro-Intel Tomshardware. This is again an Intel controlled benchmark.
Intel pre-configured the Conroe and gthe benchmark programs, and people were only allowed to run these benchmarks (see http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/05/first_benchmarks_conroe_vs_fx-62/page4.html ).

However, there is an interesting trend here. Back at the IDF, Intel claimed up to 40% lead in gaming. Now, Conroe is occasionally slower than FX? see

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/05/first_benchmarks_conroe_vs_fx-62/page5.html

I wonder why Intel keep doing this kind of guerilla benchmarketing. They are all bogus.

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/conroe-performance-claim-being-busted.html
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You first point out a link to a highly respected website, Tomshardware, but not before doing your best to jade the reader?s opinion by pointing out that in you feel they are pro-Intel. Not good given that Tomshardware plainly states all the parameters and restrictions in the testing. And they didn?t do anything to hobble the compared AMD system either. And the end result is that the Intel CPU comes out considerably better overall. The link and preliminary intro to it you gave provides absolutely no support for any pro AMD consideration.

You later give a link to your own blog, with statistics gleaned from another website that claims to have done a test on an Intel 2.39 core duo compared to an AMD overclocked to 2.8. Even in your clockspeed adjusted comparison between the two you still admit that in some instances the core duo would destroy the AMD if the Intel was running at 2.8 as well. What is proven here? Seriously?? Even in the worst case scenario found within the evidence of what you hold out to be facts, the Intel CPU still looks quite good.

You give the impression of someone who is privy to incontrovertible evidence that Intel Conroy core duo CPU?s cant keep up to AMD processors, yet your own evidence keeps showing that they likely can. And if your right, and Tomshardware is pro-Intel, and that kind of thing leads to poor journalism, then the fact you are without any doubt an overblown pro-AMD blogger then you have to also accept the fact that the same standards must be applied to you as Tomshardware, and that means if they cant be trusted due to their bias, despite their solid reputation, you can be trusted far less.

If you want wide spread respect in the field, drop your bias and stick with reality when reality is clear, and when its not so clear, at least don?t color the facts to suit your tastes.
Wow. That?s a huge stretch..And not journalism
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Agree!
ck123 6th Jun 2006
What can i say other than a big AGREE? happy
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Message has been deleted.
myfevertoy Updated - 26th Oct 2006
Every time you achieve a hinder, you may perhaps advance for full approval as of
Buy Caviar Online | Buy a href="htt Black Caviar | Beluga Caviar
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Any sources besides your own blog?
billywill 5th Jun 2006
I took the bait and read your blog entries. You seem very good at focusing on only part of the story, while completely ignoring pertinent facts that contradict your opinions.

The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that Intel might have made a better performing chip than AMD indicates your clear bias and destroys your credibility. The fact that you often quote your own blog as credible evidence doesn't help.

For those interested, here's an unbiased look at sharikou's posting history:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sharikou&btnG=Google+Search
Every point I made was backed up by external sources I linked to. Just click the links.

http://sharikou.blogspot.com
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Guys, let's not wasting time to visit his blog unless you wanna have some fun happy

allow me to summarise his blog for you here, just with few points and rules of thumb
1) AMD is ALWAYS better than Intel
2) When benchmark sites like tomshardware and hexus shows messages against point number 1, he will call them a bunch of kiddies and pro-intel
3) Uses apple to orange (huge gap in price and some diff in freq) comparison to prove his point. When people points it out, he would say the apple will become orange in 2 months time.
4) pick and choose the number/facts that he wanna see.
5) When run out of idea, refer to point number 1, but this round AMD 'will be' better than Intel

Did I miss anyhting? In case you did visit his blog, please help to add in things that i missed out in the summary happy
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EVERYTHING IS JUST SPECILATION
jimiznhb 9th Jun 2006
You can NOT take ANY benchmarks into account until the chip is released into the WILD (the consumer market)!
Then and ONLY THEN will the TRUTH come to light.
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EVERYTHING IS JUST SPECULATION
jimiznhb 9th Jun 2006
You can NOT take ANY benchmarks into account until the chip is released into the WILD (the consumer market)!
Then and ONLY THEN will the TRUTH come to light.
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Intel Is No Longer An Innovator
rjriley 5th Jun 2006
Intel's invention of PR hype is no substitute for for substantial product inventions. Intel's days are numbered because they are no longer innovative and because they send a message to those who are innovative that they disrespect them. Intel has kept it's market position with cost advantages obtained by investment in scaling of the manufacturing process. While that is in its own right a good business tactic it is no substitute for being a real innovator as evidenced by the fact that AMD has steadily taken market share.

Most breakthrough inventions come from independent inventors. Most large corporations are good at producing incremental improvements but rarely produce breakthroughs. Large companies must absorb small companies to remain vital. Reputable large companies buy the new blood they need to prosper while not so reputable companies pirate inventions and try to litigate their victims into bankruptcy.

In the face of ever greater losses patent pirates are pushing a legislative agenda which would make it much easier for them to take others' property with impunity. To facilitate their takings patent pirates have banded together, launching a massive disinformation campaign to characterizing their victims as bad players for having the gall to defend their property rights. Intel is one of the leaders of that group. They know no shame.

As a result of Intel's conduct independent inventors take inventions to other companies, and this means that eventually Intel will expire with a whimper. Intel is not the first company alienate inventors, just look at the automotive industry for an example. Another decade and Intel will be just like the auto companies

Ronald J Riley, President
Professional Inventors Alliance
www.PIAUSA.org
RJR (at) PIAUSA.org
Change "at" to @
RJR Direct # (202) 318-1595
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What a JOKE!!! Ha!
Cayble 5th Jun 2006
What a biased website. Professional Inventors Alliance?? More like the Professional "Patent Trolls Coven".

Its become rather common knowledge that the U.S. patent system is seriously broken and needs reform. The only ones who oppose patent law reform are the ones who are frightened they will not be able to reap their unfair benefits by a system that works in a fair and reasonable manor.

And if you do not think I know of what I speak you can guess again.
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you hit nail on the head
sykandtyed 5th Jun 2006
That was how RCA be came the leader in radio and tv. If you created a circuit that could stabilize a function, RCA would claim they invented it earlier and take you to court. since most garage inventors didn't have the finacial resourses, RCA would win by default.
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More Disinformation?
linux_for_me 5th Jun 2006
I believe that these numbers are bogus. I will wait until a number of impartial test labs provide more valid test results.

However, in the real world, no one will over clock CPU's as stated. People and businesses will buy the units and use them, as is. Any tests that over clock CPU's, regardless which CPU is being used, can be considered invalid. In fact, over clocking CPU's to make your system look faster, to me, is a sign of desperation.

AMD has been the innovator for a long time, far ahead of Intel. They are not sitting still and probably already have their next technology waiting in the wings. AMD has had the price/performance curve for quite a while, and I see no reason for them to give that up yet.

After all, there is a point where CPU speed fails to make any significant differences in the average user's computing experience. After all, how fast can you type and click a mouse? For 98% of the users out there, what is currently available, is more than fast enough.
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After all, there is a point where CPU speed fails to make any significant differences in the average user's computing experience. After all, how fast can you type and click a mouse? For 98% of the users out there, what is currently available, is more than fast enough.

If all you're ever going to do is write letters, grab your spam and maybe surf the web, you'd probably be right.

But the minute you start doing something that actually puts your CPU to work, your argument goes right out the window.

Tasks like ripping CDs, compiling home video into DVD ready vobs, database processing, etc... all benefit from having a blazing fast computer.

When it takes an hour or so to rip a CD on an ancient sub-GHz box, the same task is reduced to minutes on one of these warp speed boxes. While this may seem to be overkill, if you're planning on ripping your 500+ CD collection into MP3's, a faster box can save you WEEKS worth of effort. And given the number of iPods being sold every day, this would likely be a highly popular task.

While compiling a 2 hour long home movie of your kidlet bouncing around the back yard might take half a day to process into DVD ready files on an old boat anchor of a computer, the same task will only take an hour or so on a new one. This seems to be a growing market segment as well.

An SQL query that might take an hour to run on an older server would be done in minutes on a new one. Might not seem like much, but many business' live and die by the flow of information. The more they can do, the more money they make.

Add in that games play at higher resolution with better graphic detail as well and your whole argument for slow boat anchor processors is shot down in flames.
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Read the post again.
TheHonestTruth 5th Jun 2006
He wrote "what is currently available, is more than fast enough". Your post referred to older machines and somethings that I would I would consider in his 2% (2 hour home movie ripping and SQL querys (who does this at home not to mention at work? (definitely in the 2%)).
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Overclocking
3D0G 5th Jun 2006
While I disagree with the "no one will over clock CPU's" I do agree in principle that 99.9% of the user's won't overclock. However, assuming those overclocking numbers are correct, it is an indication of the potential abilities of the CPU. If significant production units run stable at those speeds, you can bet that's how they'll be labeled and marketed eventually.
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Let's wait and see!
Reverend MacFellow 5th Jun 2006
If these numbers are true Intel will definitely be back on top for years to come. I would love to buy a conroe-iMac next year.
Let's wait a month or two and see what happens.
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You should be asking:
Is Intel actually going to have a chip next month that isn't made obsolete by what AMD has had out for the last six months?

Until I see some real-world information, I'm going to remain skeptical about Intel and their intended offerings. I'm not knocking what they say they're going to release. I'm saying that if I can't buy it, then it does not matter in the slightest how much it beats AMD's offerings by.

I am happy to see that Intel may actually be geting back into the game. A competitive series of offerings from Intel means that AMD will have to come up with new offerings. That will force Intel to come up with new offerings. And so on, and so on, and so on.
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I agree
fnash 5th Jun 2006
I agre with you, especially on the point that it's good to see the competition. We benefit as consumers from that. I'm an AMD fan, but honestly, I could care less who makes the processor in my computers. As long as it's cheaper than the next guy's offering, and does what I want faster or equal, and reliably, and isn't a power hog in the process, then that's all I really care about.
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Stop twisting the dates
georgeou 5th Jun 2006
"Is Intel actually going to have a chip next month that isn't made obsolete by what AMD has had out for the last six months?"

You're twisting the dates. This is comparing a Conroe which is out next month against the AMD AM2 FX-62 which was just released at the end of last month. We're talking a 2 month gap here.
You are the one crowing about vaporware (you can't buy a Conroe can you?) against what you can buy right now.

I also reiterate that unless you can actually buy one, all the benchmarks in the world do not matter in the slightest.

As you are claiming that being the performance king makes everything else obsolete, are you admitting that all current Intel desktop CPUs are obsolete based on them being beaten by the FX-62? Since you are saying that AMD's top CPU will be obsoleted since the Conroe may be faster (again real-world usage - not benchmark land), then by extension, all current Intel CPUs must already be obsolete.
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Obsolete for the price
georgeou 6th Jun 2006
Vaporware is when the product doesn't exist yet. The product already exists and is ramping up for next month's launch. It's strictly a logistics thing now, so it hardly meets the definition of vaporware.

The AMD FX-62 will be obsolete at $1000. The new price should be around $200 next month when Conroe is released. All existing P4s will be worth even less since they're even worse than the FX-62. Intel will have a huge problem devastating their own NetBurst inventory, but they'll do damage to the entire AMD line and establish dominance.
It's really a very easy question to answer. Are all of Intel's current offerings obsolete? Given the argument that you used before, the answer is most obviously 'yes.'

As to vaporware:
If you can't buy it, it is vaporware.

"The AMD FX-62 will be obsolete at $1000. The new price should be around $200 next month when Conroe is released. All existing P4s will be worth even less since they're even worse than the FX-62. Intel will have a huge problem devastating their own NetBurst inventory, but they'll do damage to the entire AMD line and establish dominance."

So, your argument has shifted from "The FX-62 will be obsolete" to "The FX-62 will be overpriced." Wow, that's a mighty big shift. Your prediction that AMD's entire product line will be damaged remains to be seen. I will wait and see what the real world has to say about Conroe. It seems as though it may be a capable chip. I have my suspicions about the limitations of its FSB, but that's something that will be shown in the real world.
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FSB is not a problem
ck123 7th Jun 2006
FSB is not a performance bottle neck under 1 chip condition. The shared cache architecture also help the inter core communication.
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I LOVE semantics
flatliner 12th Jun 2006
Lookie here at how twisted arguments and viewpoints can be; if AMD's FX-62 indeed gets drilled next month, how smug will your so-called 'vaporware' argument be then? Sure there are 'ifs' to be answered, and given Intel's recent screw-ups any pronouncements of FX-killers need to be taken with more than a grain of salt, but what if it's really TRUE? Heck, if they're testing them now, it must mean that they're actually able to make them, doesn't it?

Rather than feel pessimistic, I think this news is great, for if nothing else it stokes the competitive fires again. I admit that I really, REALLY like AMD, but there's certainly nothing wrong with them being scared into soiling their shorts, either. And if Conroe does just that, it's going to be us consumers who win. $1000 a pop for a CPU that has a (top)shelf life typically measured in months seems SO wrong, anyways.

Whoever thought that megalith Intel had a seriously bad-assed attitude anymore? I certainly didn't. I guess we find out just how bad it is next month.
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Time will tell
CobraA1 5th Jun 2006
There's no saying that AMD doesn't have something up its sleeve, though. It's a basic fact of competition that the competitors will keep trying to outdo each other.

Only time will tell if this is really as exciting as the author thinks.
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Core2 only half the equation
ITTech001 5th Jun 2006
AMD has a fundamental advantage in that their CPU is built around hypertransport. Whereas they can pop different cores into the hypertransport framework to get a high-speed interconnect, Intel doesn't seem to quite know how to come up with something similar (or if they do, there are keeping quiet).

I would look for AMD's quad core chips in 2007 to more than hold their own by virtue of hypertransport. Knowing the effort AMD put into securing the corporate acceptance of Optron in the server world, I suspect we'll be pleasantly surprised this time next year.

However as an aside, I think software is going to start playing major catchup in the next 12-24 months. The current multi-thread / multi-process model where the entire chip is treated as an aggregation will be very inefficient with 4 or 8 core chips. I suspect the future performance gains will come equally from having interconnects not only between cores, but between individual cores and key subsystems so that specific cores can be background-tasked to handle I/O or computational tasks independently. AMD is obviously better positioned for this kind of shift than Intel is.

Imagine being able to assign Core 3 the realtime task of doing mpeg4 encoding without fear of processes that run on cores 1,2,4 interrupting it. That will put x86 on par with the Cell cpu.
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for the forseeable future.

Intel demoed overclocked Conroe XE at 3.5GHZ with liquid cooling to journalists. David Tuhy at Intel said that the Extreme Edition would be able to run at up to 130 watts.

No matter how much Intel can overclock Conroe, it can't match the performance of 4x4. You see, overclocking Conroe from 2.9GHZ to 3.2GHZ is only a 10% improvement, but power consumption increases by 30%. Power consumption rises non-linearly as one increases clockspeed. From 3.2GHZ to 3.5GHZ is just another 9% increase, but liquid cooling is required. Intel is stuck with the old school of thought. The way they try to increase the number of compute cycles is again through jacking up frequency. Soon Intel runs into yet another thermal wall, deja vu all over again.

Intel never learns.

AMD's thinking has been different since 1999 when they designed the Opteron. AMD uses more compute engines to increase performance . With AMD64, you double the performance by doubling compute engines, thus multi-core and multi-CPU designs. The key to the success of this is to make sure when you double the engines, you have a delivery system that allows the compute cycles to be fully utilized, instead of being wasted in FSB collisions. That's the Direct Connect Architecture. IMC, ccHT, XBAR and HT technologies ensures near linear increase of computing power as one increases the number of compute engines.

AMD's 4x4 technology gives you near 100% improvement at the blink of an eye. 4x4 permanently pins Intel at half the speed of AMD. At 130 watt limit, AMD can put together two 65 watt AM2 X2 4800+ processors in a 4x4 PC, which almost double the performance of a X2 4800+. The beauty of Direct Connect Architecture allows AMD to build such a system at very low cost. No additional chipset is needed for 4x4, you just connect the ccHT wires. I estimate a 4x4 motherboard will cost $150-$200. 4x4 will be faster than a 2P 4 core Opteron, because it uses unbuffered RAM.

If Intel competes against 4x4 with a cheaper two socket shared 800MHZ FSB design, performance will be very poor, as each core will only get 200MHZ bandwidth. If Intel pulls Bensley/Blackford into desktop, the cost will be very high.
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two processors is not double the speed
quantumstate 5th Jun 2006
Software can't use the capacity properly. It is significantly faster but nothing like twice the speed.
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two processor (or cores) nearly 2x the speed
baldwinleo@... 5th Jun 2006
If the app is well writen (multi threaded etc) then multi-core processing is about 90% efficient, so 2 cores = 1.8x as fast and 4 cores = 3.6x as fast and so on. Just finished reading some non-sequential raytracing benchmarks that showed this (the application was recently rewritten for multicore). The app was benchmarked across various platforms where AMD trounced Intel, esp. 64 dual core (hint - memory bandwidth counts for a lot).
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Quad Core and XP
Zaphiris 31st Jul 2006
Talking of quad cores, anyone read on their holographic sticker for Windows XP

Windows XP Professional (or home) 1-2 CPU
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Tired of corporate hype
dragosani 5th Jun 2006
I will believe Intel only when off the shelf cpu's have been put to the test by independent evaluation. Until that time they can claim 40%, 100% 1000%, and 10000% better performance but it means absolutely nothing. The same goes for every other company out there including AMD.
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Contributr
Not Intel stats
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 5th Jun 2006
These aren't Intel stats, these are benchmarks carried out independently (many by ******** AMD enthusiasts)
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Not off the shelf hardware
dragosani 5th Jun 2006
I will wait until off the shelf hardware is evaluated. It is easy to hand out hand picked hardware. Yes, the numbers are impressive and I believe it will be faster than AMD. Will it be that much faster? When off the shelf hardware is tested then we will know for sure.
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Let's assume for a moment that you're right and Intel hand picked these 2.4 and 2.6 GHz samples. About the only thing that would do is show better overclocking. The problem here is that we?re not looking at overclocked speeds; we?re looking at STOCK speeds. Stock memory and CPU speeds do NOT affect the score when the test bed is controlled independently. Under stock speed conditions, the Conroe E6600 set at 2.4 GHz CPU clock with a vastly inferior memory clock to the 2.8 GHz AMD FX-62 AM2 memory configuration which is unfair to the Conroe in this benchmark, the Conroe 2.4 murdered the 2.8 FX-62. Had this been an 2.93 Conroe Extreme Edition CPU with equivalent memory to the AMD FX-62, the devastation would have been worse!
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Remember the Pentium III 1.3GHz
dragosani 7th Jun 2006
That is right. It had good performance and Intel postitioned it right against the AMD. Alas, it was broke and all that performance didn't mean anything. A handful actually worked the rest didn't. Then came the recall.

What I am saying is until there are off the shelf samples actually working at the speed they claim they will be running at there is no reason to get excited about those numbers.

No reason at all.
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You're really really wrong
georgeou 9th Jun 2006
"What I am saying is until there are off the shelf samples actually working at the speed they claim they will be running at there is no reason to get excited about those numbers."

You're not only wrong, but the opposite is true. Not only are they producing the 2.4 GHz chips (which kill the 2.8 GHz FX-62), but multiple independent sources are confirming that the chip will clock to 4 GHz with cheap water cooling.

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