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Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See

By | November 5, 2010, 8:41am PDT

Summary: Cisco’s flagship consumer SOHO wireless router, the E3000, has a tragic flaw: Overheat.

Cisco’s flagship consumer SOHO wireless router, the E3000, has a tragic flaw: Overheat.

I work a lot from home for a large technology delivery organization. As such, my house is probably one of the most wired households in Northern New Jersey. I’m in the minority of customers which makes use of all of the bandwidth from my Optimum Online Ultra connection, Cablevision’s 100Mbps broadband service which advertises itself as the fastest consumer broadband you can buy in the United States. And well, it is.

Why the heck do I need all this broadband? Well, I’ve got a lot of devices with constant Internet connections from a whole bunch of appliances and hard-wired computers, not to mention I’m now downloading a ton of stuff all the time for work and other research purposes.

We have also two smartphones, two laptops and an iPad connected via Wi-Fi, the DirecTV Whole-Home HD DVR service which requires an Internet connection and a high-speed 5Ghz wireless-N bridge if I want to make the most out of the On-Demand, two HD-capable Rokus, an HD Slingbox and two VOIP lines for both me and my wife which get used constantly. And I’m not counting all the test equipment that comes in and out of my home lab that needs to talk to the Internet as well.

I’m not bragging. This is how I make my living and how I choose to live. Unfortunately it also means that I’ve become absolutely dependent on my home broadband connection. And when it goes down, Jason gets angry. Very. Very. Angry.

Around 11PM last night, all of my connections dropped. So I did the usual thing, I rebooted the cable modem and the router. Still doesn’t come back.

Okay, maybe my Linux workstation is acting flaky. So I rebooted my PC and cycled the Ethernet interface. No DHCP gets assigned. Not good.

I then hear the dreaded words coming from my wife hollering from upstairs. “Jay, did we lose our Internet connection?”

Page 2: [I got a fever burnin' inside of me...]  »

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Topics

Router, Cisco Systems Inc., Jason Perlow, Flagship Consumer, Routers & Switches, Network Technology, Networking

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

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I Didn't Do Enough Homework.....
jor55 27th Dec
Last November, looking for a router with better range and speed, after reading good reviews of the Linksys E3000 I bought one from Newegg. I was going to set it up this New Year's holiday. Until I read this review today, I thought I had a hot top-of-the-line piece of equipment. Now I know that I have just a 'hot' piece of equipment. At least I know to expect the overheating problems and will set it up on some kind if heat dispersing device, rather than just on top of the book-case. It is winter, and the room is pretty cool, so I don't expect to run into problems until summer comes. I think I will set it up near the window that is cold and has no sun exposure anytime, on top of a 1/2" wire mesh 2" larger in length and width of the router on 2" blocks and then cross my fingers when the weather warms.
View in thread
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Get some wood dowels (4) and put the router on top
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate Updated - 5th Nov 2010
with an offset of about 2" clearance from the underside.

My e3000 works great especially since I flashed it with dd-wrt (Sept 2010 build)

I haven't needed to power cycle my router since I replaced a Linksys WRT54GL with the e3000 and this router handles both home use and web server traffic (self-managed website) well. What I have read on the overheating issue is a simple solution and will help.

I do agree with another poster's opinion below that the new pancake design while unique keeps you from being able to stack routers as you could with the former LinkSys line.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
mgrubb@... 5th Nov 2010
I don't have this router and doubt I ever will. I have been unhappy with all of the cisco offerings since changing the form factor from the old LinkSys form factor to their own. They don't stack anylonger, they don't dissipate heat well, and honestly, their service is much poorer than when it was LinkSys. For such a respected brand, especially at the enterprise level, they should be ashamed!

Now Linksys had great and very reliable hardware! In fact, I'm still using my first linksys router/switch from 10 years ago or so. It's the BFSR41 or something like that. It's in my basement, supplies a link to my upstairs rooms, and just keeps on ticking! It's a timex, it's never going to stop!
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
nix_hed 6th Nov 2010
@mgrubb@... I had a WRT54G V3, which is the revision that had some slight alterations from Cisco. While running the Linksys firmware, it would run warm and quit about once a month; upgrading it to DD-WRT solved both issues. It's nearly 5 years old now, and I ended up selling it because of an upgrade to Wireless N.

First Wireless N router was an e3000, and it was a giant piece of easy cheese. The first one refused to run more than an hour before quitting, and the second one only gained stability while running on a laptop cooling pad. Being that I'm a firm believer that a soho router is something that should be seen but not heard, I ended up buying a refurbished Apple Time Capsule with a 1TB hard drive. It's definitely a beast, supporting network transfer rates that run about as fast as my slowest hard drive (a WD 160GB device) over gigabit and 5 GHz WiFi-N transfers that run faster than 100 mbit ethernet on a regular basis. If I'm doing large amounts of data transfer between computers, from a computer to a USB hard drive attached to the TC, or streaming to my AppleTV, it stays perfectly cool; it only runs warm when I'm abusing it's internal hard drive with Time Machine, but when I upgrade to either a 3 or 4 TB WD Green drive, I'm sure that issue will go away (everyone knows that Seagate drives tend to run warm).

If you don't need a 4 port switch on a router Jason, I'd tell you that either an Airport or Time Capsule may be the way to go.
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Why use consumer grade equipment?
JT82 5th Nov 2010
Just fork over the money for a Cisco 881 (maybe 881W for you) and enjoy the easy set up of Cisco Configuration Professional (or use the CLI if you are so inclined) and just forget about the router. I bought one of these bad boys (881) and have a D-LINk 3200AP connected to it and havent powercycled any of my equipment in several months. If you are passing that much traffic, it's time to upgrade from consumer trash to real SMB equipment. I spent around $1000 on my network, but it's been well worth it.
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@JT82 To push a 100Mbps WAN connection I'd need the 892. That's not a small chunk of change. I'll consider it, but it's not inspiring confidence if they can't even build their consumer equipment decently anymore.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
JT82 Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@jperlow Wait, why would you need to go up to the 892? The 881W has a 10/100 WAN port - long as you are at 100Mbps..that's all you need?
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@jt82 just because it has 100mbps WAN port doesnt mean that it can push traffic at 100mbps. There are plenty of UTM appliances that have a max throughput of 60Mbps or less even though the port itself is a 10/100. You need a gigabit rated port to push 100megabits of traffic on a UTM device, with a very fast CPU to handle the UTM on at the packet level.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
dhorrigan 5th Nov 2010
@JT82 While the 881 has a 10/100Mbit WAN port, it only supports about 50Mbit throughput. You can never go by just the port speed...you have to go by the throughput.

Dan
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
CFD220 5th Nov 2010
"having to reboot it occasionally in order to reset my broadband. This is typical and to be expected."

While I see this many times with SOHO routers I can say that my DGL-4500 never has to be rebooted. Great router with the only downside being it doesn't support simultaneous dual-band. If a router has to be rebooted with any regularity I get rid of it and find something that works properly.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
ejhonda 5th Nov 2010
I bought a mini fridge and placed it in there.

Nice "inflammatory" image at the top of the story, BTW. wink
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Cisco Linksys Support is TERRIBLE!
ttucker@... Updated - 5th Nov 2010
For Linksys products now that Cisco has taken it over. I've tried to get a resolution to a problem with a range extender for the past several months, and have been lied to numerous times. They told me they would replace it, but never did, then on subsequent calls they made promises to call me back, and never did.

In contrast, the other day I called Dell about a problem with my Dell SP2309W 23 inch display, and after a very brief description of the issue, they said they would ship a replacment. The replacement arrived two days later.

That's what customer support looks like, Cisco. I'll likely never buy another Linksys product....
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Contributr
How hot does it get?
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 5th Nov 2010
Have you taken its temperature?
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@Adrian Kingsley-Hughes I'd need an infrared thermometer to measure it accurately.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
ProfQuill 5th Nov 2010
You can get a perfectly serviceable IR thermometer from Harbor Freight for under 20 bucks, depending on model, sales, coupons, etc. Measure things you never could! Do you know the temperature of the sky? Or your router?
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
dasurber@... 5th Nov 2010
I totally agree with some of the other posters here, Cisco really took the Linksys brand down the cheap route after they took over. Honestly I think that may have been by design so that small offices would have to move up to the enterprise class stuff where Cisco makes a lot more money. I bought 3 Linksys products about 18 months ago and ended up returning ALL of them within a week as they all had issues of dropping connections and other various issues. I went with the D-Link DIR-825 and have been rock solid ever since. I had to make the decision to stay away from Linksys products and tell the same to quite a few people that look to me for tech advice. And don't get me wrong, like one of the previous posters I have one of the very old units and it works great and I was a BIG Linksys fan for many years but Cisco doesn't seem to want to provide a quality product into the consumer market now. Actually its sad.
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Amazing how much crap is out there
jscott418 5th Nov 2010
It just amazes me how much crap is made out there. You have to wonder if in any testers notes was the fact that the unit becomes hot and drops connection? I have had notebooks get very hot. My latest is a Macbook Pro 2008. It gets so hot you cannot touch it in places. But of course Apple says its normal. I don't know about anyone else. But I was always told the more heat on solid state equipment the shorter the lifespan.
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Taiwan one gigabit/sec..check it out!
amj2010 5th Nov 2010
Well we use a Linksys router Nultra Rangeplus the WAG160N-EU, yes we live in Belgium, and it's warm, it always standsby, it works sofar quite well, sometimes a reboot when internet is down, but asks those Koreans (Taiwan) with their 1 Gigabit/sec instead of a 100mb/s, what they use...or ask CISCO THEMSELVES...
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
John_DeG Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@jperlow, I feel your pain! I have this same router, and also get the "Is the internet down?" calls from my wife. I have noticed that mine gets extremely hot on the bottom, as you mentioned. I have taken to "hanging" it from the cable between the router and my cable modem, and that seems to do the trick. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem.

If you hear anything from Cisco on this, please keep us updated. I'll have to contact them too.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
ericn32 5th Nov 2010
Every Linksys wireless AP or router has been a POS. The W-Fi, uPnP, and Web configuration cuts out every few weeks, and sometimes once a week. Terrible, utterly terrible reliability. And they refused to give me an RMA for my damn WRT54G2.

Poor quality, poor support; I'm not buying any of this Linksys crap again.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
BRS 5th Nov 2010
Mine lasted 2 days Then the wife said our little girl helping her dust the top of the cupboard screamed when she picked it up. The top of the cupboard was extremely hot and although t5here was no permanent damage I had to let it go. I just wonder how long it will be before one sets fire to something
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
hafizullah@... 5th Nov 2010
Why not cut some ventilation holes or slots in the bottom of the case --- or take the case off entirely?
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
Jaytmoon Updated - 5th Nov 2010
I have the older version of this router WRT610n. It overheats and drops packets and connections altogether. It gets very hot (compared to room temps).
I built a "Cooling Rack" from readily avilable pc parts and office supplys
see link below for a good DIY solution.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31345-42-overheating-router-cooling-solution

This is MY build but you are welcome to use the design for your own personal use. Mr Perlow, the router I have was reading 125f with an IR thermometer, after the cooling stand was used it read 90f.
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buy the one with FAN!
pupkin_z 5th Nov 2010
it is that simple. All the professional routers have a fan (or more than one) inside. For a reason. Obviously with all the network activity you are pushing the limits of the "home use.
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Home routers are junk.
osreinstall 5th Nov 2010
I have a linksys befsr41 that locked up after a year's use in an air conditioned room. This is the second one. So I rebooted it and it locks up a few weeks later. This goes on for a few months and I decided to tear it apart because it was hot. So I now just run the router board out in the open with no problems other than being slow. The processor is a Realtek. Next router is going to be a mini-itx with an Atom processor, boot flash drive with m0n0wall installed.
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What does Cisco do that DD-wrt doesn't?
tkejlboom 5th Nov 2010
I love my Netgear 3500L. I don't have quite the bandwidth at home that you do. I envy you, but it's up and running most of the time. I haven't had a single problem, and I haven't rebooted it since configuration in... ever.

I don't think Cisco has ANY interest in making a good Linksys product. The first thing they did when they acquired Linksys YEARS and YEARS ago was shrink the flash in the dd-wrt 54g so people couldn't put dd-wrt on it anymore and increase the price. I'm fairly certain that it cost them MORE money to get the smaller flash. Do companies do this? Yes! I KNOW HP networking continues to pay more for 512MB compact flash cards for their core switches than for the 4GB SD cards in their prototypes. Shhhh. Cisco and HP like to charge LOTS of money to be able to create VLANs, and will pay lots of money to keep the price difference between a "managed" and "unmanaged" switch very high.

Cisco sells on features, not performance. Unless you need some feature they offer that DD-wrt doesn't offer and I don't know about, go a different route.
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Just curious Jason..do you have alot of torrent activity?
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 5th Nov 2010
Or HD tv you are streaming through your router?
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@Dietrich T. Schmitz No, no torrents. Tons of HD, lots of streaming activity, also large file downloads from vendors, heavy upstream transfers for work etc.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
tkejlboom 5th Nov 2010
@jperlow

No torrents? How do you get your Linux? WoW(not a fan myself, but...)? etc?
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@tkejlboom I use it sometimes to get Linux distros, but I tend to stay away from it as a content distribution mechanism.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
snoop0x7b 5th Nov 2010
Why not just either use an old PC with linux (as a router) + a 1U managed switch... I do that and I have no problems pushing 100mbps sustained. I have a cisco 3500 series which I got for 30 bucks on ebay + an old pentium 3 machine.
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Translation
doodlius 5th Nov 2010
"...not to mention I?m now downloading a ton of stuff all the time for work and other research purposes."

Translation: porn. happy
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@doodlius Man cannot live on Linux distributions alone.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
city_zen 6th Nov 2010
@jperlow
ROFL
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
windozefreak 5th Nov 2010
Get off of Linux and live worry free. Only linux have this problem!
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 5th Nov 2010
@windozefreak Um, no. Your SOHO router RUNS on Linux. Very few, if any, still use vxWorks or another embedded OS.
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Reliability
isaac32767 5th Nov 2010
"I?ve had this router running for about 30 days, having to reboot it occasionally in order to reset my broadband. This is typical and to be expected."

What does "reset my broadband" mean?
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Older Versions
glass9350@... 5th Nov 2010
I use a Linksys WRT 310 as my main router. At the other end of the house I have a WRT 160 wired to one of the ports of the WRT310 to boost the signal in the bedrooms. I have not had any overheating problems. Do you know if these models were made before Cisco took over Linksys.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
amf1932 5th Nov 2010
I wouldn't go so far as to call the E3000 as having a "Tragic Flaw". Yes, I noticed it ran pretty warm, but that was easily corrected by using felt feet to raise it up a bit. Problem eliminated!!!
Here's a photo I took to show you what I did. http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/amf1932/ES3000Feet.jpg?1288994586
P.S. This is by far the best router I have ever used, especially with a super fast cable connection.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
John_DeG 5th Nov 2010
@amf1932 I'll have to try that. But seriously, should we have to mod it to keep it cool?!
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
amf1932 5th Nov 2010
Here's what I did.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/amf1932/ES3000Feet.jpg?1288994586
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
city_zen 6th Nov 2010
@amf1932
Nice!
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
rograham1 5th Nov 2010
Seems like they spent more on the video than the engineering. What happens if you simply turn the router upside down? See if you can assess the airflow for the device.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
stn564@... 5th Nov 2010
Cisco's equipment has always been power-hungry. Hence their need to use large noisy fans on much of their professional equipment. I have two jobs next week: one to replace fans on a new router that was installed a few months ago, and another to move a router that can't be in an office because it sounds like a boeing takeing off and drives the occupants scatty.

CISCO: Certainly It Sometimes Causes Outages!
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
zaphid Updated - 5th Nov 2010
I run my business from home and long ago gave up on consumer grade gear for what are now essential services. My home network has a Catalyst 3560G as a core switch (28 port PoE 10/100/1000) and a 2651XM as an edge router. I have had one outage due to these boxes in 4 years - a router "panic" -... every other interruption has been my service provider. The switch is an overkill, but I need it to emulate my client's networks. The old 2651XM costs less 2nd hand than most consumer devices and is infinitely more versatile.

The add-ons are consumer grade: a Linksys WAP4410N wireless access point for wireless is OK but not stunning - it does support multiple VLANs and SSIDs which is handy, whilst the Linksys Analog Trunk Adapter (SPA-2102) has been a piece of rubbish. I do believe that Linksys gear has gone backwards significantly since Cisco took them on.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
zaphid 5th Nov 2010
I run my business from home and long ago gave up on consumer grade gear for what are now essential services. My home network has a Catalyst 3560G as a core switch (28 port PoE 10/100/1000) and a 2651XM as an edge router. I have had one outage due to these boxes in 4 years - a router "panic" -... every other interruption has been my service provider. The switch is an overkill, but I need it to emulate my client's networks. The old 2651XM costs less 2nd hand than most consumer devices and is infinitely more versatile.

The add-ons are consumer grade: a Linksys WAP4410N wireless access point for wireless is OK but not stunning - it does support multiple VLANs and SSIDs which is handy, whilst the Linksys Analog Trunk Adapter (SPA-2102) has been a piece of rubbish. I do believe that Linksys gear has gone backwards significantly since Cisco took them on.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
babyboomer57 5th Nov 2010
Just curious how long it will take Cisco to send you a new router to try to shut you up.

You are really good at this stuff, Jason. More power to you!
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
stewymelb 5th Nov 2010
I have the linksys wrt610n, and it (now..) performs flawlessly. I bought it for simulataneous dual band (so i could run the media centre on it's own dedicated 5ghz band) at a point where the was only the D-link as an option.

My experience - it didn't work out of the box. It took a firmware update to make the 5ghz band useable, and took 2 firmware updates to get all of the promised features.

As for heat, this thing is slightly warm but not really a problem. However, the WRT310n routers some of my friends use (which are physically slightly smaller) overheat constantly. Mine doesn't (and I live in Aus which is typically a warmer environment), so i have to say i'm pretty impressed with it.

Personally, I think cramming that much throughput / heat generation into some of this size is product suicide. Overall I agree with many - the product quality / web presence / customer service has decreased dramatically since CISCO took over, which is a real shame.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
DaveMcLain 5th Nov 2010
I've been using the Linksys WRT320N for the last year at my house without any reboots being required and it uses an identical enclosure to the E3000. Maybe having more than one radio in there is just too much.
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Contributr
RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
jperlow 6th Nov 2010
@DaveMcLain Well, not just two radios, the Broadcom processor is clocked a lot faster as well. Your Broadcom CPU runs at 354Mhz, mine at 480Mhz. The pancake is just a bad design for the faster chips which clearly need a lot more thermal managment and ventilation. The Netgear WNDR3700 clocks out at over 600Mhz with its Atheros chip but it stands vertically and has vents on both sides, and doesn't have this problem.
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RE: Cisco: Hot Router? Check it and See
DaveMcLain Updated - 7th Nov 2010
@jperlow

It's just hard to believe that 20% higher clock speed would make that much of a difference but it's possible. I have my router wall mounted under my basement steps. I wonder if having it orientated vertically helps with the cooling?

It does seem dumb to build a product that's as edgy as your router. I have a Linksys WRT54G mounted in a weatherproof enclosure as an outdoor AP and it's been very solid even during the summer when the temperature is 100 degrees. I bet the E3000 would be breaking out a sweat under even moderate use.
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I Didn't Do Enough Homework.....
jor55 27th Dec
Last November, looking for a router with better range and speed, after reading good reviews of the Linksys E3000 I bought one from Newegg. I was going to set it up this New Year's holiday. Until I read this review today, I thought I had a hot top-of-the-line piece of equipment. Now I know that I have just a 'hot' piece of equipment. At least I know to expect the overheating problems and will set it up on some kind if heat dispersing device, rather than just on top of the book-case. It is winter, and the room is pretty cool, so I don't expect to run into problems until summer comes. I think I will set it up near the window that is cold and has no sun exposure anytime, on top of a 1/2" wire mesh 2" larger in length and width of the router on 2" blocks and then cross my fingers when the weather warms.

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