Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

Dear Rabid Apple Fans: Your precious Mac club is being disbanded. Blame iPad.

By | July 22, 2010, 2:46pm PDT

Summary: Within four years, iPad users will vastly outnumber Macs. And to the elitist Macintosh faithful, that news is too difficult to bear.

Within four years, iPad users will vastly outnumber Macs. And to the elitist Macintosh faithful, that news is too difficult to bear.

Today my long-time colleague and friend Mary-Jo Foley, probably the most seasoned Microsoft reporter in the entire industry made a revelation: She bought an iPad. And she loves it.

I think we can all agree that the summer is slow on tech news, and that even the best of us run short of material. God knows, this happens to me probably every week, and it forces me to get creative.

But Mary-Jo declaring that she’s joining the Apple iPad ranks is important for its non-eventness alone, because this is evidence that the canary in the coal mine is dropping dead. And that canary is the Age of Elitism for Apple users.

In all truthfulness, I debated whether or not I was going to write a blog entry on Mary Jo buying her iPad. I didn’t think it was that important.

After all, I bought one, and I wouldn’t call myself the biggest Apple fan in the world. The device serves its purpose for me and it does what it needs to do. I ascribe absolutely zero religious or ideological motivation in the purchase whatsoever. It’s just a friggin’ tablet.

But then I read this response on MacDailyNews and it got me thinking. Mac fans sound like they are seriously threatened by the Average Mary-Jo buying iPads, aren’t they?

How did they react? Not “Welcome to the club” or “Cool, she likes it” but instead in their first sentence they go as far to call her a “Luddite Soccer Mom”, albeit in jest.

The very idea that Mary-Jo is a Luddite or even a Soccer Mom is totally ridiculous, as she’s one of the most feminist and technologically progressive career women I’ve ever met.

But wait, there’s more. They also want to “Vomit” if they read any more of Mary Jo’s piece and that as she’s “lived her life denying herself the best” for not having owned Apple product before, she therefore has “no credibility” with her opinions about the device and is also “cheap”.

What does this sound like to me? It sounds like elitism. It sounds like the typical Mac fanboi crap that most of us regular people have been enduring from these twits for more than two decades.

This is not how you welcome people into your community, Mactards. This is how you alienate them.

The funny thing is about all of this is that while Mary Jo is certainly no Soccer Mom, or even a technological neophyte or a Luddite, that’s exactly the sort of person the iPad is targeted at. And that’s primarily who’ll be buying them. In the many tens of millions over the next few years. Most of which have never owned an Apple computer of any kind before. Many will have never even purchased an iPod either.

Tens of millions of iPad owners and Apple neophytes is a Mac elitist’s worst nightmare. Suddenly, the price of entry to become an Apple computer owner is no longer the equivalent to a major down payment on a luxury automobile. It’s no longer exclusive. For just $500.00 anybody can own an Apple computer.

And that scares the living crap out of Mac fanatics.

At the 2009 Apple World Wide Developer’s conference (WWDC) acting Apple CEO Phil Schiller stated there were 75 million Mac users worldwide. All indications are that the current rate of growth for Mac use is that it is relatively flat — the Macs which are being bought (and in reported record numbers) are for the most part replacing the ones in the current population in North America. The recently reported growth numbers in Asia are certainly encouraging for Apple, but then again PC sales in Asia are extremely commodity and extremely high volume anyway.

[Note: I'm well aware of latest Apple sales reports that they sold more Macs last quarter than any quarter previous. That's a very good sign for replacement or expansion, but there is still very little market data other than Apple's own Chief Financial Officer's opinion to suggest that Macs are displacing or outselling Windows PCs in large quantities globally.]

Of those 75 million users, approximately 60-70 percent of them are probably in North America. That would amount to about 52.5 million if you estimate on the high end.

The early iPad purchasing trend indicates that within three years, we’ll see anywhere between 50 and 80 million iPad users worldwide, as an extremely conservative estimate. And virtually all of them are going to be in the US, as the rest of the world is likely to latch onto Android instead.

Now, let’s be perfectly clear. Macs aren’t going away anytime soon. It’s an important platform for digital content creation and obviously, it’s the required and only platform for programming iOS apps, at least for the time being.

However, there can be little denying that most of the emphasis on application development for Apple products is for iOS, not for the Mac. The 2010 Apple World Wide Developer’s Conference was almost entirely dedicated to the iOS platform. It was by its own admission “The Center of the App Universe.” And when Apple says App, it means App Store.

I do believe that eventually, the Mac OS will be completely eclipsed by iOS. That day may not come for four or five years. Perhaps even six. But when it does happen, “normal” people will outnumber Mac users by a significant margin.

These aren’t power users, they aren’t digital content creation professionals, these are people that just want to get things done with devices — their web browsing, their email, their multimedia content consumption, their document  viewing and editing, their social networking and their games.

They’ll have zero interest in OS wars, and will have no institutional history with the Macintosh or fanboyism or Mac Culture at all. The only thing they will care about is can their appliance computer work to do what they need it to do, and when will their latest Apps come out. Beyond that, they won’t care a whit about being part of an exclusive club.

And why is that? Because Apple now knows that their market is average people, and that they need to sell as many devices as possible in order to make money on their App Store. That means huge volumes of shipped consumer electronics and the elimination of platform elitism. To succeed, Apple knows it has to throw their existing fan base under the bus.

Good riddance. Sayonara, Jackasses.

Will the Culture of Mac Fanboyism come to an end with the popularity of the iPad? Talk Back and Let Me Know.

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Topics

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

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Dear Rabid Apple Fans
Cheap longboards 29th Nov
So, where does this leave us? The Apple Country Club has been invaded - so be it... Let's look at the positive here and celebrate that people are actually breaking out of their traditional "boxes" and that creative technological advances are/have/will be made because of it! God Bless America and let's hope that freedom will continue to reign. cheap longboards complete
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Wow
TheRackow 22nd Jul 2010
I just read the comments on the MDN link...

thats absolutely disgusting...
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Mac Daily News Link
MichaelWells 23rd Jul 2010
@TheRackow You are absolutely correct. That site is joke. I am a Mac, but choose to get my news from Macnn, MacRumors, or Apple Insider. I agree totally with Jason. My fellow MacHeads are simply embarrassing. I have stated this before and will again; you would think that these folk's entire lives, ego and self esteem comes from their choice of a computer or OS. I find it hard to believe that there are actually people who defended Apple's initial reaction to the iPhone 4 problem. I can totally understand why there are people who have never bought an Apple product that are jumping on the iPhone4 bashing bandwagon; they are tired of being talked down to and insulted by Mac fanboys. Speaking only for myself, I sincerely hope that the Mac market share continues to be very low (between 3.5-7%); because I am not naive enough to believe that the safety and security that I take for granted now will continue once they get over 25%. For the record my wife and I own 2 MacBook Pros, 1 White MacBook, 1 Time Capsule, and 2 iPods. My work PC, which I also like is a Gateway 2.8G, 6G Ram running Windows 7.

(MacBook Pro 15" 2.93 Core2Duo, 4G Ram, 320GB 7200 RPM HD)
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@MichaelWells Your blame is misguided. You don't blame the target of hacks like the author of this.

What about all the years of bashing suffered by people who've used Macs? It's not the content of the insult, it's the frequency and the consistency.

You're the embarrassment.

And for your information, it only takes 10,0000 compromised machines to do serious damage to even the largest internet properties with a DDOS attack.

And there are well over 100 MILLION OS X-derived devices out there.

Hackers do it for the glory as much as anything else. Imagine the infinite glory of being the first hacker EVER to use 10,000 Macs to successfully carry out a DDOS attack?

So drop the obscurity argument already.
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Years of abuse deserves replies and fact correction
richardw66 Updated - 23rd Jul 2010
@MichaelWells

I didn't like Steve Hob's initital response to the iPhone 4's supposed problem either.

With hindsight I think his advice was right though. Either it could have been expressed better or reported better, I am not sure which since I do not know the circumstances of his response.

And as for being talked down to or insulted - try being an Apple user for the past 30 years!!!

I have heard so much rubbish from people as to why my choice of computer was wrong for that whole time!!!

Many, many years of how DOS was better than a GUI - complete rubbish, I am sure you would now agree.

How a GUI was girly - which as a Windows user you must realise was a valid thing to say!!!

And defences of Microsoft such as 'At least Microsoft invented the mouse' from a MS employee.

I do know of Mac fans who are worried that Apple is getting into 'Toys' with the iPad/iPhone, as they take their computing power seriously.

But when Windows users spout rubbish about the Mac platform, after a while it gets rather stupid to pretend that they know what they are talking about, and to pretend that they are not just ignorant and arrogant people trying to be superior by winning battles against a stupid OS.

Yes - now you feel put down by a supposed 'Fanboy'.

If you stop using that girly 'GUI' and go back to a command line like a real man, then I might stop calling you a WIMP.

Is it OK for me to say that to Windows users?


For the record I support anything that allows users to get better tools. If that means that laptops die out then that is fine with me. If that means that desktops die out then also fine with me.

I use Macs because they are the best tools for many things, and I advise others to use Macs when they are the best tools.

I quite like the idea of not using desktops or laptops in many situations, and I will advise others to get an iPad when it is not necessary for them to have a computer, and I think that will be often, so I will contribute to the demise of the Mac in that respect.
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Such humor, ... really
eldernorm 26th Jul 2010
@MichaelWells and the author,

I find it so funny that PC users are so threatened by Mac users. I use both at work and have my own opinions but such "fear" from non Apple users is so weird.

With the exception of a few rabid Apple fans (just like their PC counterparts happy ) Mac users do not seem to be worried or threatened by PC users. But "they are tired of being talked down to and insulted by PC fanboys." Really, its funny.

Some of my long time friends who are PC fans are using Apple products and now looking at buying Mac computers. Since they run Windows too, if you want them to, I do not see these people going back to PC hardware.

And to the author, I guess you do not actually read many PC web blogs. For many years, Apple has been openly ignored (mention Apple then dismiss them) which is fine. Now that IE use is down to 65% world wide, MS mobile is dying on the vine, and HP is looking at WebOS for its tablet.... well, I just do not see MS growing anymore, and rather wilting on the vine. There for many years to come, but always as a shell of its former self.

Just a thought there.

en
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To God of Biscuits
Cayble Updated - 13th Aug 2010
@God of Biscuits
You are living proof that Mactards exist.

I have always said that if an Apple computer is what you like and it suits your needs go for it, fine hardware and in my limited experience its always appeared that OSX is a fine operating system so then good for those who like Apple computers.

On the other hand; morons exist in the Apple fanatic community that cannot accept the converse in any way. In other words they cannot bring themselves to say that if a Windows machine suites your needs and you prefer Windows then fine, go for it. With these types its more along the lines of:

"Windows is pretty much crap for any purpose and serves no real purpose other then to con mentally weak people into using it".

What a brilliant outlook. Common sense would tell anyone with a brain such babbling makes no sense as the world essentially runs off of Windows and the vast majority of the hundreds of millions around the world like Windows just fine.

And years of suffering of Mac users being bashed???? Ha! What bashing is this? For what seems like forever if anyone ever pointed out even the most obvious drawback to a Mac, such as the high price of Apple computer, a fact that is indisputable, the Apple fanatics have rushed to Apples rescue with every excuse and spin on the facts with a heaping dose of vehement Windows bashing piled on top thicker and deeper! What about the numerous Apple guy commercials that insinuated what would be outright lies about Windows computers? Now thats bashing. I don't remember any Windows commercials showing the guy who has to live in cardboard box and steal electricity from the power company because he paid so much for his Mac! And the reason why is because that kind of exaggerated overblown description of a Mac shortcoming isnt seen to be something Windows users need to indulge in.

And this nonsense:

"Imagine the infinite glory of being the first hacker EVER to use 10,000 Macs to successfully carry out a DDOS attack?"

That would be like bragging rights to riding a buckboard across the desert being pulled by a dozen Shetland ponies. Why would anyone do that other then for bragging rights?

Like it or not, however many Macs there are operating in the world, raw numbers mean nothing unless your comparing them to the raw numbers of Windows driven computers and that leaves Macs still so far behind in availability to hackers it still remains that they are a pointless marginal target. And are not the Mac enthusiasts the ones who swear that Macs are tougher to break into? So why would anyone pick on the smallest part of the market that is just going to be tougher to break into (read far from impossible)?

Obscurity is the argument here. Obscurity of Macs to put it plainly. I myself have never argued that there are probably some inherent things about OSX that make it less susceptible to attack, but to argue that if Macs had the same kind of market share that Windows has they wouldn't get attacked much the same as Windows does now is nonsense. I guess your saying the hackers would all just have to give up and go home and get another job if it was Apple that had 90% of the market? Just silly.

So here we have a guy, MichaelWells, who owns Macs and other Apple products who seems to be quite happy with them but says he has some concerns about security if Apple triples their market share and your best response is to cut him off at the knees and call him an embarrassment. All I can say is wow.

Its an exemplary showing of the very kind of Apple fanaticism he has said embarrasses him, and you give the perfect example as opposed to responding in a sane fashion. Your the prime example of what I have said for a very long time now; Apple computers don't seem to have anything so much wrong with them as too many of their fanatical users do.
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To God of Biscuits
Cayble 13th Aug 2010
@God of Biscuits
You are living proof that Mactards exist.

I have always said that if an Apple computer is what you like and it suits your needs go for it, fine hardware and in my limited experience its always appeared that OSX is a fine operating system so then good for those who like Apple computers.

On the other hand; morons exist in the Apple fanatic community that cannot accept the converse in any way. In other words they cannot bring themselves to say that if a Windows machine suites your needs and you prefer Windows then fine, go for it. With these types its more along the lines of:

"Windows is pretty much crap for any purpose and serves no real purpose other then to con mentally weak people into using it".

What a brilliant outlook. Common sense would tell anyone with a brain such babbling makes no sense as the world essentially runs off of Windows and the vast majority of the hundreds of millions around the world like Windows just fine.

And years of suffering of Mac users being bashed???? Ha! What bashing is this? For what seems like forever if anyone ever pointed out even the most obvious drawback to a Mac, such as the high price of Apple computer, a fact that is indisputable, the Apple fanatics have rushed to Apples rescue with every excuse and spin on the facts with a heaping dose of vehement Windows bashing piled on top thicker and deeper! What about the numerous Apple guy commercials that insinuated what would be outright lies about Windows computers? Now thats bashing. I don't remember any Windows commercials showing the guy who has to live in cardboard box and steal electricity from the power company because he paid so much for his Mac! And the reason why is because that kind of exaggerated overblown description of a Mac shortcoming isnt seen to be something Windows users need to indulge in.

And this nonsense:

"Imagine the infinite glory of being the first hacker EVER to use 10,000 Macs to successfully carry out a DDOS attack?"

That would be like bragging rights to riding a buckboard across the desert being pulled by a dozen Shetland ponies. Why would anyone do that other then for bragging rights?

Like it or not, however many Macs there are operating in the world, raw numbers mean nothing unless your comparing them to the raw numbers of Windows driven computers and that leaves Macs still so far behind in availability to hackers it still remains that they are a pointless marginal target. And are not the Mac enthusiasts the ones who swear that Macs are tougher to break into? So why would anyone pick on the smallest part of the market that is just going to be tougher to break into (read far from impossible)?

Obscurity is the argument here. Obscurity of Macs to put it plainly. I myself have never argued that there are probably some inherent things about OSX that make it less susceptible to attack, but to argue that if Macs had the same kind of market share that Windows has they wouldn't get attacked much the same as Windows does now is nonsense. I guess your saying the hackers would all just have to give up and go home and get another job if it was Apple that had 90% of the market? Just silly.

So here we have a guy, MichaelWells, who owns Macs and other Apple products who seems to be quite happy with them but says he has some concerns about security if Apple triples their market share and your best response is to cut him off at the knees and call him an embarrassment. All I can say is wow.

Its an exemplary showing of the very kind of Apple fanaticism he has said embarrasses him, and you give the perfect example as opposed to responding in a sane fashion. Your the prime example of what I have said for a very long time now; Apple computers don't seem to have anything so much wrong with them as too many of their fanatical users do.
@MichaelWells There have been fully implemented resource planning applications out there for years and years that pull everything under one umbrella. One of the best on the market is a product called SM-Plus, developed by a company called Single Source Systems just outside Indianapolis. Apparently NetSuite didn't bother to actually look at the market before declaring they came up with something new and innovative. cocuk oyunlari giydirme oyunlari
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soccer mom mary-jo
banned from zdnet 15th Aug 2010
@TheRackow
mary-jo wrote and bashed apple for many years. now she admits that she hasn't even tried using them until now. she now does and she is loving it! people who claim to "choose" microsoft products, but who've never used an apple product, have absolutely no credibility. for years, she's been just plain ignorant.

so no jason, she gets no praise from long time apple users for finally waking up. these comments at mdn are about mary-jo and only about her not a random windows user that finally starts to see the light. all of them a very welcome to our "elitist mac camp" by the 100 of millions. ignorant apple haters are not.
@banned from zdnet
Then allow me to state that I've used a Mac at work in the past and found them ugly and complicated....and I choose to use Windows instead.
@banned from zdnet so no jason, she gets no praise from long time apple users for finally waking up. these comments at mdn are about mary-jo and only about her not a random windows user that finally starts to see the light. all of them a very welcome to our "elitist mac camp" by the 100 of millions. ignorant apple haters are not.
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@banned from zdnet
Long may the iPad reign over us:)
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@TheRackow It takes a larger entity for the smaller person to tap into, but I'm not surprised that the idea was turned down. If there's not immediate benefit, then the budget admins will say NO.

On the large scale, Google & Sprint are setting up their Fiber networks while everyone else is still upgrading hardware. Their goal is to be prepared for the next step in high-speed Internet. The downside is that you would have to signup for their service (Sprint), or be in an area that the ISP offers service (Google). But for now, we sit and wait for another decade. yeni oyunlar recep abiye sor oyunu
@TheRackow
Many are getting crazy with ipad. Maybe let's say goodbye with pc, its ipad era now. ebooks with resale rights | custom home builders
Fully agree with TheRacow. I always use MacRumors too. lyrics free dj agency Regards, Molly
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Absurd post
ds-ny 22nd Jul 2010
Apple just reported record Mac sales. The data is that a substantial fraction of those are new to the platform. Did you research this post at all?
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Jason doesn't research...
zkiwi 22nd Jul 2010
He just copy/pastes and tosses in flamebait blogging to get whatever his quota of page hits is.
@zkiwi Your comments are completely without research, scientific fact, and statistical data. Are you a Mac fanboi? Give the guy a break. He does have a point here.
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Sadly it's much worse
Richard Flude 23rd Jul 2010
Their emperor really has no clothes they're struggling with the transition.

Embarrassingly for them all they're written is recorded on the internet for anyone with an interest.
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@myles...
zkiwi 23rd Jul 2010
Whatever. Look it up, the assertions he makes are all out there, from whence he copied and pasted them. All he's done is mish-mash them about to make them look like an original rant.

Note also, that Jason's always coming up with anti-Apple hatchet job blogs. He has no point other than to stir up page hits.
@zkiwi Ahhh Jason's proof - right here.
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I hate when people say "look it up"
adwilliams2 23rd Jul 2010
@zkiwi
If you want to make a point about something, and are referencing something....dont say "look it up". Thats lazy and usually means your A) Lying, B) Dont know what the hell your really saying or C) Stretching or manipulating the truth about what your saying. If you make a claim (this is on both side of the fence here people, FanBois, Windows Creeps, and some ZDnet writers) the burden of proof is on you, not someone else to look up the facts. And facts from Microsoft, Apple and other companies selling the junk are skewed so look up independent numbers buy independent companies. If you dont want to take the time to do this before making a claim, dont make it at all. All you do is sound ignorant and like an obsessive fanboi on either side of the argument.
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Jason is rabbiting on what cnet (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20006281-64.html) were pontificating about from before the iPhone 4 was released, and they are not the least that have been predicting the cannibalizing of Mac sales as iPhone and iPad sales rise and rise.

Observe for a moment these products are for completely different markets so their sales are hardly likely to affect each other.

Now you get such as Perlow going on a very offensive full metal rant based on nothing but his desire for page hits, and to continue his anti-Apple crusade. I guess if this sort of blog is sanctioned by zdnet as "ok" they have decided to be a shock horror rag.
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Jason doesn't research? Really?
Pete "athynz" Athens 23rd Jul 2010
@zkiwi Then where did the following gem in his article come from? Thin air? There are the words of your fellow... I'll be nice and say macheads rather than terms those idiots - including the author of that particular post in MDN as mactards...

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/microsoft_blogger_mary_jo_foley_loves_her_new_ipad/

By all means please TRY to refute those words and please tell us just how Jason did NOT research...
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FYI....
zkiwi 24th Jul 2010
It is hardly surprising that MDN folk went off about MJF's blog. She's pretty much always hated Apple, and even in her blog saying she has an iPad it was like "bugger, there's nothing like this from Microsoft, and I'd have dropped iPad like it was hot if there was."

Oh wait, that'd mean you'd have to have read, thought, analyzed and come to a supportable conclusion. never mind.
@zkiwi Oh wait, that'd mean you'd have to have read, thought, analyzed and come to a supportable conclusion. never mind.

I did - I came to the conclusion that the a$$hats at MDN are the epitome of frothing at the mouth mactards. And so what if MJF does not like Apple? So what if she prefers Microsoft products? That does NOT give those mactards at MDN the right to trash her like that...
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Which of course explains away...
zkiwi 27th Jul 2010
Your and others mindless frothing rants. Or do the "bad acts" of others justify you emulating them.

FYI, Jason didn't research his article. His whole premise that iPads would outnumber Macs has already happened (or is happening) with iPods and iPhones and do you see Jason spasming in delight over that? No. He's just a lame blogger who is after page hits and is using a "crusade" against Apple to do it. He's just "upped his game" from trying to "prove" his lame assertions to ranting and denigrating Apple, its products and the users of its products.
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The REAL question is . . .
JLHenry 23rd Jul 2010
@ds-ny

Are they buying Low-end Macs (like the Mini), or are they mostly high end ones. I get the feeling that the reason you're seeing surges in sales in Asia is that people are buying a Mac so they can write Apps for the iOS, and these machines may not be used for anything else. If they ARE buying the low end, that's what's probably going on . . .
@JLHenry They're buying them so they can reverse-engineer & steal the technology...
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@JLHenry

So there are going to be 100,000+ new iOS developers.

WOW!!!!

And those developers won't even be curious enough to use their new computer beyond running XCode, very interesting.
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Re: The REAL question is
Yaminom Updated - 24th Jul 2010
@JLHenry, one only has to look at Apple's most recent report to know what the ASP for Macs was.

The company had Mac unit sales of 3.472 million, which generated revenue of 4.399 billion. Ergo, the average selling price was $1,266.99.

I'm not sure what supports your "feeling" about people buying Macs solely to write apps for iOS. That's really the sort of thing one figures out using data.
@JLHenry Interesting insight, but I wonder how true? Pond Lights
@ds-ny - Record Mac sales. That could mean they sold one more than their highest past quarter. Yeah, marketing, gotta love it.

Now "substanially higher than in the past" with actual numbers of physical mac computer sold in the past vs. what their new record would be a way to substantiate using those words, however I've never seen actual numbers of physical computers sold (not that I'm inclined to research it myself because with as many new computer users in the world it's only natural that Apple would get a slice of that pie).

What I'd love to see is actual numbers of new computers sold vs older computers retired.

And then break those numbers down by category (Mac/Windows/Linux [all flavors combined, I'm not a glutton for punishment]) so that we can see the facts, and not just marketing and financial claims.
Yes the question is are they replacing a Mac or what? It would have to be done on a survey basis, but it could be extrapolated. My question is though, what gets replaced faster, Mac or PC? It seems the Windows world is constantly pushing the minimum requirements, forcing replacement but not so much with the Mac. The Mac hardware is more robust and tends to last longer. "You get what you pay" for is true for computers or cars.
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Hardware replacement
aep528 23rd Jul 2010
@smithrg

Huh? Apple is the company that is preventing it's software from running on older hardware, not Microsoft.I can no longer get new OS versions for my MAC that is barely 5 years old.
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Hard numbers
vulpine@... 23rd Jul 2010
@PollyProteus : Maybe you should check out Apple's quarterly report. The hard numbers you are looking for are there in number of units sold for desktop, portable, iPod, iPhone and iPad. These numbers also include the increases over the same quarter last year. It ain't just one or two machines, my friend--it's in the multi-thousands. The only platform that saw any loss in sales y-o-y was the iPod, and that loss was fairly small compared to the growth of the other platforms.
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@PollyProteus

Try reading the Apple press release for actual numbers of physical units sold. It took me about 10 seconds to find it on the Apple site. Here's the link:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html

To quote for lazy people, "Apple sold 3.47 million Macs during the quarter, representing a new quarterly record and a 33 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter."

According to MacWord, the record quarter is about 100,000 units above the previous record quarter. I haven't confirmed that because I don't feel like going through past Apple reports.
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RE: Smithrg - W T H?
Jayton 23rd Jul 2010
@smithrg

I bought my PC on the cheap by buying cheap parts, that was over 5 years ago now, coming up for 6 years and it's STILL working well and not had any problems with the hardware, I work in the REAL IT world and I see many OLD desktop's still running well. I also see nearly new machines (including Mac's) with problems. Your statement is also flawed because you refer to Microsoft as a hardware vendor. Remember Windows has only had 3 Major changes in 10 years. How many times has OS/X changed in it's years? 8! That's once a year! Remembering you have to pay for the upgrades, and the older machines can't use the latest OS. My almost 6 year old PC runs Windows 7 really well for it's age (as well as the latest Linux & BSD's - I'm not fighting just MS's corner but the whole PC corner). That can't be said about a friends 5 year old MacBook and Snow Leopard.

Give up your crApple Mac lovin' now, because you'll be surrounded by average people soon using your beloved Mac's.
@smithrg

Really? I was an apple fan for literally decades because of my apple ][+ but a pc user by necessity. When I was finally able to buy a mac I found it was incredibly frustrating to use for various reason I won't go into. The mac went on ebay and was replaced by a pc running Windows XP.

Today that pc is running Windows 7, it was running Windows Vista before that. The only thing different about it from the XP days is an upgrade from one gb of RAM to two. Unfortunately the person that purchased the mac from me will never be able to upgrade to the latest version of OS X because it doesn't support her hardware. She'll have to buy a new Mac instead.
@Jayton

They have had many Changes, Windows 2000 Pro (SP1-SP4), Windows XP, XP SP1, XP SP2 (DX9c, Windows Firewall, DEP, new WLAN support/client, WMP9, Bluetooth), XP x64, XP SP3, Vista, Vista SP1, Vista SP2, Windows 7, 7 SP1 (beta). Service packs brings new features!

OS X updates is btw once every 18 months. Payed for sure but for upgrading between dx9.0c and DX10/11 you'll need to pay too. Not too bad, not perfect. It's 6 mayor versions since the OS launched. 10.1 was a free upgrade though. And of course PPC mac was only upgraded up to 10.5. That's 4 payed for upgrades. Vista didn't gain Direct2D, DirectWrite, DX11 till platform update of Oct 2009. Neither can you use those features fully on your 6 year old PC. A 4.25 year old MacBook runs SL just fine though. But also missing features of course. They (Macs) don't live forever but I think people realize that. A 2002, 867MHz quicksilver powermac should run 10.5 though. I wouldn't like to run XP SP2/bordering SP3 (it was beta) on a 2002 era pc. I had upgraded around that time. I had around 256MB ram back then in 2002. 1.53GHz 256MB ram wouldn't be much to use around 2007/2008 with Windows. A five year old Pentium D Smithfield 3.2GHz dual-core with 2GB of ram would be pretty usable with Windows 7 though. But I don't think you can say the same of a 1GHz Pentium 3 with 128MB of ram in 2005 though.
@smithrg

The "Mac hardware is more robust" statement is tripe. They piece together the computers just as Dell, HP, and other OEM manufacturers (and often bidding for lowest cost). Also, if you've ever even opened yours, you'd notice a few things. The board is a custom job, but is very 'laptop'-like. It has an Intel CPU, the motherboard is something you can compare to any number of PC laptop or these new 'laptop thinks its a desktop' form-factors. The graphics chipset is the same as what you get on PC. Actually, the whole damned thing runs on the same hardware as PCs do. And Macs fail too, just about as often. Bad PSUs, someone didn't assemble something right and there are loose/shorted connections, etc. I got calls about this junk all the time while I worked for Apple.

Granted, a while back, this wasn't true. They had dedicated manufacturers for Apple parts. Apples had their own CPU, for instance. I was working other areas at the time, so I'm not sure how robust those were.

To make it even more obvious that the systems are quite identical, is the amount of people running copies of Mac OS X on PCs. Granted there is some hacking involved, but it is done. Some people don't even have to hack much other than the product identification bits, as the hardware they have is identical, but with modified firmware.

I'm not saying PCs are better, or anything -- I'm definitely not saying Macs are better either. They are just about the same these days, with the companies putting in stuff to make their product look better.

I hate the fanboi mentality. It stifles progress. And they sound mentally challenged.
@Liath.WW

They had problems back with the PowerPC machines too, probably more so then now. It's nothing special they are just an OEM, not even with a magic firmware - all PC OEMs now days use UEFI firmware too. At least on their professional lineup. It's not that it's Apples own spec or their own code and full implementation. (With the same kind of BIOS emulation as Apple has, but in a different implementation, and in two main flavors, Phoenix and AMI).

Apple manufacturing was as dedicated before as it is now. They use and used normal EMS and ODM firms. -- Contract manufacturers in Asia. A PowerPC cpu, hypertransport and broadcom chipset didn't make it any special at all. Neither did the broadcom wireless chips, standard rams or standard GPUs. And ATX-standard PSUs.

Macs have never been better then they are. They are just a different choice of product, where else do you get all-in-ones with IPS-screens? Where else do you get powerful post-production machines? Some of the software in that field doesn't even run on Windows but it does run on OS X as it's old Unix-software which now has been ported. And of course FCP is only available for OS X. As well as some other professional software, you buy what you need, you buy your tools and whatever hardware they need to run on. Whether it's Windows, OS X or Linux. Much are largely identical as far as laptops go though, but a lot of people buy them for OS X. But design and premium PC laptops costs a lot too so who fing cares. Buy whatever you need and nothing else. Everything in the world aren't cheap consumer PCs. You won't find a 63.5 Wh battery in your rebated 500 dollar machine. You will in more expensive ones. Whether it's mac or win is irrelevant. It's not like you can compare different classes and different needs. And users can be fairly sure it's not abandon-ware after a few years as most ordinary pc parts are. You can get drivers for the next OS update. Apple is just another PC supplier - a ordinary computer OEM with it's defects and strengths. Nothing more special then that on the engineering and physical or hardware stuff, except for OS X of course. Which isn't bad just because it's not Microsoft and it doesn't either mean it's an corporate alternative to Microsoft. Any enterprise would need Windows on top of OS X or accessed through RDP/remote desktop services. Biggest useless software there is for OS X is Office for mac which isn't close to be compatible with Office. Doesn't mean you can't do a lot of other productivity on OS X though. The OS OS X is based on actually sold for Intel PCs and the universal binary feature is something they where using in 93-96. Just accept macs as a product of a normal computer OEM it's ordinary except for OS X, but there is no need to rile against them because they aren't running Microsoft software I seldom see Mac zealots any more just retards who like to yell at them (Apple). Ordinary hardware still makes it different products then what the others deliver. Only ones confused about their ordinariness seems to be the anti-apple crowd. They aren't any less or more ordinary with x86 hardware then IBM hardware. Quality problems always existed and will always exist.
@Penti And Mac users, professional users etc knows all this, they aren't shy on attacking Apple for flaws.
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Win 7 on 5 yr old hardware? Riiiight.
God of Biscuits 23rd Jul 2010
@smithrg You're joking, yeah? You can run Win 7 on 5 year old PC hardware? And for what it's worth, nearly all currently shipping software can run on Mac OS X 10.5, which runs on Mac hardware far older than 5 years old.

And also for the record? The PC market didn't MAKE A CPU SWITCH IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING while keeping everything afloat.

Microsoft would never have been able to do that. Hell, they couldn't even manage a reasonable transition to 64-bit.
@God of biscuits: Uhnh--- it was Jayton that said he was running Win 7 on a 5 year old PC that HE built! You disagree? I also have placed Win7 on a five year old HAND built PC and it runs fine, due to the video card having 640meg memory and the unit has 2gig of ram. Sorry but your observation is incorrect. If the BIOS has been updated and the video card has enough ram,.....
@barefoot1976 God of biscuits didn't say that he didn't. I would probably be happy running W7 on a 2003 year Pentium-M Banias laptop. Provided I upgraded the ram to 2GB. (However it wouldn't be supported by the manufacturer, kinda like you can upgrade to 10.5 unofficially on some macs). Great for enthusiasts though.

Installing Win XP SP1 on a 1996 Pentium 133MHz laptop is tougher though. It's runnable (as in boots) but not really usable. (It probably would only be expandable to 80MB or so, many of them would only handle 32MB).
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Absurd post indeed
Pete "athynz" Athens Updated - 23rd Jul 2010
@ds-ny But I'm NOT referring to Jason's post but your own... you not only missed his point by also served to illustrate it even more. Instead of reading the article and seeing where he is going with this you read just the headline and got your ******* in a bunch.
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Dear Rabid Apple Fans
Cheap longboards 29th Nov
So, where does this leave us? The Apple Country Club has been invaded - so be it... Let's look at the positive here and celebrate that people are actually breaking out of their traditional "boxes" and that creative technological advances are/have/will be made because of it! God Bless America and let's hope that freedom will continue to reign. cheap longboards complete

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