Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

Google Wave: The Microsoft Bob of the New Millennium

By | October 14, 2009, 1:26pm PDT

Summary: Google Wave, the new and highly anticipated workflow/group collaboration mashup web application which is in limited alpha test has left me underwhelmed. Over the weekend I became one of the lucky few to receive a Google Wave invite. I was excited, overjoyed, and basked in my new-found elite status among the New Media weberati. For all [...]

Google Wave, the new and highly anticipated workflow/group collaboration mashup web application which is in limited alpha test has left me underwhelmed.

Over the weekend I became one of the lucky few to receive a Google Wave invite. I was excited, overjoyed, and basked in my new-found elite status among the New Media weberati. For all of about ten minutes.

I see for the most part what Google is trying to do. It’s trying to achieve the holy grail of workflow and group collaboration by tying the two paradigms of threaded email discussions and wikis together. Effectively Wave is a hosting site for disposable, single-purpose based Wikis and mashups.

Click on the “Read the rest of this entry” link below for more.

In a “Wave”, you add a whole bunch of folks into a threaded discussion in which they can integrate text, hyperlinks and embedded objects into one singular mashup, using a revision control system that allows you to “play back” the order of changes that occurred to the entire collaboration process. Changes occur in real time, so you can actually watch people add and remove and modify content if the participants are all working on a Wave simultaneously.

Embedded objects in a Wave can include things such as videos and photos grabbed from Google search queries, maps, applets from third parties, as well as autonomous “bots” that can participate in the conversation, such as Wolfram Alpha. For example, if I inserted “%What is the population of Iran%” in-line with some text, and the Wolfram Alpha Bot was added to the Wave as a participant, it would auto-magically return the result in the in-line text. At least, it is supposed to. When we tried it, it didn’t. This stuff isn’t completely baked yet.

While I can see where this type of collaboration process may have some merit, I REALLY do not want to see this become part of GMail, because that is the natural evolution of what I am seeing, at least with this technology preview. The beauty of GMail is its simplicity, in that there’s really no learning curve in using it.

There is indeed a significant learning curve with Wave, however. Wave requires quite a bit of understanding of Wikis, revision control and object embedding and linking to be an effective user, and even having that experience alone doesn’t necessarily make Google Wave particularly useful.

I’m not sure it makes sense to integrate these directly into e-mail. Perhaps Waves should be dedicated, specially flagged threads that appear in GMail, so you know that you’ve been invited into one, but I hope it doesn’t end up as the default container format for threaded e-mail conversation in GMail. That would just be God awful.

For the most part I feel the application is totally unintuitive, at least in its current incarnation. “Edit” is not even a default button, you have to find it in a pulldown or by double-clicking on a thread post. With the “Extensions”, such as Wolfram Alpha, those currently have to be added to the Waves via URL or via a unique Google Wave identifier number.

Ideally, anything that you can insert as an object, even if it is of 3rd-party origin, should be populated in a catalog of browseable applets/widgets/objects. A centralized “Object Store” if you will. But Wave doesn’t have one of these yet and frankly not many Wave objects that are particularly useful even exist.

It also doesn’t help that a ton of stuff in Google Wave right now just doesn’t work, period. Searches of images and video content yield nothing, or the search just churns along forever or may take minutes to return a result. Not what I expect of a Google product, even in Alpha form.

There are other ways of doing collaboration right now that make a lot more sense than Google Wave. Web Conferences such as NetMeeting, WebEx, Lotus Sametime Unyte and and other Internet-based whiteboarding/desktop sharing technologies are much more mature, as are various implementations of Wiki itself. I like the idea of “Disposable Wikis” though. Maybe someone else will come up with a way to perfect the idea.

So far, I’m not finding a compelling reason to use Wave instead of the other collaboration tools at my disposal, and I’m not seeing this as a major paradigm shift or sea-change application that others may view this to be. Perhaps it will mature quickly by developer adoption into an elegant and useful way of collaborating with peers that will enhance or replace our traditional collaboration technologies, but right now it’s just UI hell without a clear purpose or an advantage over what exists today.

Are you too underwhelmed by Google Wave? Talk Back and Let Me Know.

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Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

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RE: Google Wave: The Microsoft Bob of the New Millennium
JACOBSONR 14th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
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Google Wave uber-whelms me
Michael Hickins 14th Oct 2009
Hi Jason,
I agree that the beauty (one, at any rate) of gmail is its simplicity, but that aside, I think you're giving Wave short shrift. It's not so much an application as a platform for other apps and ultimately a way to drown Microsoft Bob, as well as Microsoft Steve, Apple Steve and any other Bob, Steve or Harry you can think of on the desktop. I just wrote about a cat in Wichita (not an actual cat you understand, that would be really amazing) who's already written a Firefox plug-in that notifies you when you've been sent a wavelet. No huge deal, except there's already a useful app and you're the only guy in the greater metropolitan area with a Google Wave account. I mean, wait until GA. (I go on about this in greater detail here if you're interested: http://industry.bnet.com/technology/10003724/google-wave-add-on-is-the-start-of-a-tsunami/?tag=shell;content).
All the best--much respect as ever,
Michael
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I see why you are underwhelmed...
storm14k 14th Oct 2009
I don't see why you would compare this to NetMeeting or WebEx. I don't think this is where they are trying to go at all. I think people are WAAAAAAAY to focused on the fact that you CAN do realtime collaboration. Its all they think about.

From the get go they said its the evolution of EMAIL. And its quite a serious and needed evolution. Of you look at the way we communicate via email its inefficient yet its still the most common way of communicating and sharing things at work besides meeting face to face. When both or all parties happen to be at their desks at the same time what do we do with email? We bounce emails back and forth and end up with all sorts of spurs as different people reply in different places. IM would be better but you have to keep up and also have no good way of bringing someone into the convo without having to explain all over. They aren't going to get the whole transcript when they join the chat. Or what if you want to add them in after the chat has happened.

Wave is like a mesh of email and IM. It basically moves at the speed you need it to, ensures everyone can understand how the conversation developed whenever they are added and ensures everyone sees all parts of the convo that they are supposed to. It doesn't matter if everyone is looking at the wave at the same time or whether they need to be added next week when most of the convo is already said and done. It can move as slow as email or as fast as IM. I really don't see how thats confusing to use vs email.

I think what causes confusion and underwhelming performance is when people start worrying more about bells and whistles than the core product. And thats with any product. For some reason I don't go around inventing reasons to use every button and search box under every menu on an app. If an app is used to do X and do X and determine how good it is by how well it does X and not how many Y's and Z's I can come up with reasons to use. But even with that stated that Wolfram bot you described is off the chain.
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"Underwhelmed" is an understatement
LBiege Updated - 14th Oct 2009
The whole Wave communication model was the same thing Lotus Notes achieved 15 years ago in the desktop world. It's hilarious the same thing finally got regurgitated into the web world with a new name then "BANG!" you have WWW fanboys buzzing all over as if a new continent was found.
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Things already invented
p0figster 15th Oct 2009
I totally get you! I feel the same way about the Internet! Computers had the
ability to store, reference and display information years before the Internet
came out. Why is everybody going crazy over it and loving it? Same with cell
phones - what's the big deal? We've had wired phones for years, and honestly,
for millenia before that people could already meet up and talk face to face, so
what's the big deal?

The big deal is you don't have to be on the same local network to get the same
benefit. Kinda obvious.
Ok I thought I was the only one that just thought what is
is the hype about because this has been here already. I
feel alot better now.
on what you said, I will not even try it for a while,
though a friend sent me an invite. I view this as NOT a
replacement for email in the near future though. I think
Google would be smart to keep it in limited beta for at
least 2 years, and keep simplifying, simplifying,
simplifying, . . simplifying, until it is usable. Then,
it needs to have plug-ins for new data types that can be
edited shared on cloud. And, if this just doesn't work
out, Google will toss it and go back to the drawing
board. Google fully understands that it will cost
possibly hundreds of millions to figure out the next
generation of collaborative real-time communication is
after email.
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Give me a break, the post is BS
cjc5447 15th Oct 2009
Jason is reviewing an ALPHA software program, which is pretty useless in itself, but calling it a failure before it even gets to the Beta stage is stupid, and wastes everyone's time.
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Post BS? NOT
seamountie 17th Oct 2009
I don't think so. The very idea of Alpha & Beta releases is so people like Jason can critisize the ap. And the Alpha stage is actually the most helpful point for this as it the easiest for the developer to mod intrinsic features.
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Who to wave with?
A.Sinic 9th Nov 2009
So I got an invite from a friend, and started to play. But I didn't get the ability to invite anyone else.

OK, so they wanted a tight trial, but how can I experiment when I can only exchange anything with only one other person?

One thing I liked a bit, at least the word processing/editting function is a tiny bit better than the rubbish on Google docs. Still not as good as Word for DOS though.
I really think that you don't understand the concept, or
you never really had to collaborate with remote coworker
at a sustained speed. Wave leaves in the dust tools like
Backpack, Basecamp etc... and IM is detrimental for group
work because creates the illusion of communication, while
Wave's accountability trail is awesome.
0 Votes
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Contributr
You would be wrong
jperlow 14th Oct 2009
you never really had to collaborate with remote coworker at a sustained speed.

I share my desktop using any number of applications with my co-workers daily, using Lotus Sametime Unyte. And tons of workflow with Lotus Notes and Wikis.
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Sharing?
seamountie 17th Oct 2009
I think that if you look at Wave only as a current time collaborative tool, then it does seem to be re-inventing the wheel. What I see in it is the ability to truely collaborate with others without having to set aside a common time for a meeting.

I have been racking my brain trying to think of a current (or previous) example of similar ability - a parable if you will - and the closest I can come is what we are doing now...the comments section. But with restricted commenters and real time viewing to eliminate overlapping comments.

As I am typing this (thinking out loud sort of) I realize that while this is new and handy, it may well be socially poor. We will be collaborating without co-operating.
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Often truth lies in the middle...
LiquidLearner 14th Oct 2009
I'd like to think it's a bit more useful than Jason makes it out to be but probably less useful than others (Chris Dawson comes to mind) make it sound. After all, I doubt it's the second coming the way some have spoke about it. I can see the usefulness but I have to agree that, at least from what I've seen, it would be a disaster to see all of GMail converted over to this. I like the idea of tying into Waves via Gmail, just not as the default e-mail interface.

At least someone wrote a blog about it that sounds a little more realistic, especially given Alpha status, than anything else that has been written.
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Kinda Early in the Process
jpr75_z 14th Oct 2009
No doubt a lot of work needs to be done on this. Good luck to Google. But is it cloud based? Ha Ha. Google has not had much luck with that happy
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Nothing could ever be a BOB. Only Microsoft is capable of that! (NT)
No More Microsoft Software Ever! 14th Oct 2009
NT
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You clearly under estimate the power of open source. Wave is not an app, Wave is an open source platform where many application will live on and one day all you need is to open the browser and start to communicate.
Albeit, it will take much longer for this platform to be mature and well received but look what Android can archieve in two years. That is the power of open source.
Imagine you can Tweet, Facebook, e-mail (if you want to) etc. all in one web page.
Mutually exclusive.
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Everything...
storm14k 15th Oct 2009
...because if you don't find Google's implementation to be useful others can take that advice and build a system that is.
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Wow!
crazydanr@... 14th Oct 2009
Tweet, Facebook, and read email all on the same page?

If that's the bar for mature Wave development, it truly is the next MS Bob.
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Wave's scrollbar sucks
samunplugged 15th Oct 2009
The whole app sucks
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Does google spy on the wave
x I'm tc 15th Oct 2009
Like they do to gMail?
The problem with the other collaboration tools that you
mention is that these are . . . Not Free.

I looked at NetMeetings and see that it's mostly video chat
for those who have Windows XP. I can do that with iChat
or Adium (which has Mac). I don't have $59 dollars every
month to throw away on WebEx and Lotus Sametime Unyte
is clearly business-oriented and not free.

And Google Wave is still in beta, so features won't be clear
for some time to come. But I think it will eventually all sort
out.
0 Votes
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I guess I'm just old school, but is it really necessary to post 'useless piece of crap' in large font to your readers?

Could you not have taken an extra moment to express a negative opinion with some civility and decorum?
0 Votes
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Contributr
I used another word for "crap" in the original I wanted to use.
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MS Bob was an awesome OS! The only reason it wasn't successful is because of biased negative articles spreading false information that ruined its reputation.

Google Wave is total garbage, I don't even know anything about it, other than it being made by Google... and they aren't Microsoft... so I hate it.
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Contributr
Even MICROSOFT thinks Bob was a joke.
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I think MS Bob was designed...
PollyProteus 15th Oct 2009
... to try and make Windows accessible to little kids, not to adults (well, maybe to adults that are afraid of computers, but I digress).

I played around with MS Bob just to see what it had and I came away with the thought that while it's not useful in any kind of business world, it would make learning to use the computer a bit less daunting for young minds.

Was Bob a joke? Today, yes, it's looked back on as a joke and a failure, but the *idea* behind it had some merit.


Oh, and Bob was simply a shell, basically an Explorer replacement, not an OS.
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Sceptical but I'll wait and see
Mythos7 15th Oct 2009
Anytime someone invents an elaborate solution to a problem we didn?t have the odds are very much against it. From what I?ve seen and read I?m sceptical but if anyone has the clout to push a new paradigm on us it is Google.

Regardless it will not be a Microsoft Bob--if it goes down it will do so quietly and not in ridicule.
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Given the hype
LiquidLearner 15th Oct 2009
if it goes down it will be with ridicule.
This whole Wave endeavour reminds me of a technology looking for a solution.

Has there been a massive outcry to integrate tweets and e-mail that I'm not aware of? I guess if you have millions of dollars to waste on iffy research projects, this would be a stellar example of that.

Reminds me of Microsoft's effort a year ago to bring to market and SELL a simple collage application - only someone forgot to tell the researchers about the already existing free Picasso collage tool. I haven't heard a word about the project since.
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Something more appropriate as an alternative
Joe_Raby Updated - 15th Oct 2009
Take Microsoft's Tafiti code base from here:

http://wlquickapps.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Tafiti%20Overview

add in sharing, like what they'll have with Office Sharepoint Workspace 2010 (formerly Groove), and you instantly have something that is 100x more productive.

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Not Bob. Segway.
billdyszel 15th Oct 2009
Nobody actutally claimed that MS Bob would do anything useful. People who drink the WAVE Kool-aid claim that it will "transform life as we know it." Just like the Segway did. Uh-huh, sure.
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This was of course, meant as a reply to an
above threat, rather than the main article
-----------------------------------------------
Dear HypnoToad72,

Seriously? You cannot think of one single
comment that is
actually related to this blog posting to say?
Honestly I
find comments like this offensive because
instead of
doing a single useful thing for the
conversation they
waste time and space. I would click the
"offensive" link
but that isn't what it is for.
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Or is it Googles answer to Sharepoint?
Dr.Doctor 15th Oct 2009
I don't know anymore about wave than what you've described but
it sure sounds like Sharepoint without the MS server.
The beauty of email is that it provides threads - although Outlook,
for one hasn't figured out to avoid spurs and orphaned threads.
Nor does outlook (threads) integrate well with sharepoint yet, and
MSz insistance on their servers and DBs makes it hard to
use/think of SP as an easy to use collaboration tool unless you
have a lot of infrastructure support behind you.
But wave sounds like it could be a great answer to Sharepoint and
that would be good strategy on Googles part. As others have said
about wave, Sharepoint is a platform - to allow MS Office users to
collaborate. It just costs the earth.
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Hey Jason, this one has me stumped.

You wrote "I like the idea of 'Disposable Wikis' though" and I'm trying to figure out what would be the point of something like that.

My understanding of Wikis is that they're basically an online electronic version of encyclopedias, information that you keep around but can edit realtime as new information becomes available. A disposable wiki, to me, seems like it would a huge waste of time.

Can you give some examples where this concept would be a good thing?

Thanks!
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"Disposable Wiki"
szisk 16th Oct 2009
I think you are confused between a wiki and wikipedia. Wikis are shared online communities offering threaded message topics, content repositories, FAQs, etc, as well as access control and user management for the community.

Wikipedia is a wiki-based encyclopedia, but I have regularly used wikis on long-running projects.

Making the wiki set-up and use lightweight (so I can build one instantly), putting the server in the cloud (for access anywhere) tying messaging and real-time features in (for "work rooms, etc), and shared user management are great features.

I am not yet a Wave invitee, so take this with a *large* grain of salt: No individual bit of Wave is revolutionary (as many bits have been available for years or even decades), but going back and rethinking how it all ties together and saying "what would these things look like if we started out fresh" is a major win.

Stephen Zisk
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I'm not exactly feeling whelmed by it.
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Good way to disenfranchise
InspectorGadget 15th Oct 2009
What about those of us who aren't GMail sluts or Outlook ******? What about those of us who use real Email programs on real operating systems? Good way to disenfranchise us (and even the Outlook "users"), but in another sense, it'll NEVER have wide-spread acceptance. It's aimed at the heavy handed IT infrastructure to try to replace Lotus Notes.

When you've got thousands of Java programmers, everything looks like a coffee bean...
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I'm not exactly sure what your point is...
LiquidLearner 15th Oct 2009
Real email programs on real operating systems? So Outlook isn't the most widely used mail program? Windows isn't the most widely used OS? Oh, because they're the most popular they aren't "real". I guess by the same line of thinking just because a band is popular means they aren't any good.
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