Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee

By | September 4, 2009, 2:09pm PDT

Summary: The VMFS file system is one of the core technologies used in VMWare environments. Unfortunately, it’s also a completely proprietary black box that makes interoperability nearly impossible.

The VMWare Cluster Locking File System, version 3 (VMFS-3) Is one of the core technologies used in VMWare ESX/vSphere 4 virtual infrastructure environments. Unfortunately, it’s also a completely proprietary black box that makes interoperability nearly impossible.

One of the perils of being a practicing systems integration expert versus someone who strictly writes about or reports on technology is that when it comes to taking care of paying customers versus attending trade shows, my customers come first. So while I would love to attend every industry trade show that would allow me to network with other industry peers and touch base with the companies that I write about, it’s not always possible.

Click on the “Read the rest of this entry” link below for more.

VMWorld 2009 in San Francisco was a trade show that I would have loved to have attended this week, but the practical realities of having to actually use the technology in question — VMWare vSphere — prevented me from being able to cover the event. In this case, I had a customer which had to perform a business continuity recovery exercise over a 48 hour period which required my assistance as the VMWare lead, working round the clock shifts in a cold datacenter, sleep deprived, bugged-out on fluorescent lighting and hopped up on dispenser machine coffee, Dunkin’ Donuts Munchkins and MSG-laced snack foods.

Among other systems which needed to be restored at the target site, the exercise involved restoring a number of Virtual Machines that the customer had supplied to us on commodity, 1 Terabtyte external SATA hard drives which they had copied out of their production VMWare ESX 3.5 environment at their originating data center.

As a best practice, I normally would recommend that production VMWare data be SAN replicated over a Wide Area Network, but in this case the customer for whatever reason, probably as a cost saving measure, chose to physically send us actual FAT32-formatted hard disks containing copies of the VM directories with the .VMX and .VMDK files.

No big deal, right? Just physically attach the USB/eSATA hard disks to the VMWare ESX server’s USB 2.0 or eSATA ports and copy the files in. Won’t be the fastest of restores, but it will work just fine.

Uh, hold on there cowboy. Sorry, you can’t do that.

Had we been dealing with just about any other x86 operating system and/or hypervisor, the procedure I described above would work just fine — on Windows Server 2008 Hyper-V and on a multitude of Linux distributions, UNIX, Xen flavors and KVM included. Hell, even on Macs. But on VMWare ESX, that just isn’t the case.

You see, VMWare’s ESX bare metal hypervisor is a black box. The only way you can move data in and out of their VMFS-3 file system is using their provided proprietary tools, in this case the VMWare vCenter Client which is used to remotely administrate an ESX box from a Windows workstation or server, or their Linux command line console which is only available on the full blown VI3/ESX 3.5 or vSphere 4.0 product, not the embedded ESXi version which is becoming increasingly popular with environments using server blades.

For those not familiar, the ESX hypervisor itself can talk to local VMFS-3 storage, or to iSCSI or fiber SAN-attached VMFS-3 storage. It can also talk to remote NFS storage through its vmkernel interface over the network. However, It CANNOT talk to the USB ports on the hardware the ESX server itself is running on, nor can it locally mount any other file system other than its own VMFS, or files mounted on the CD-ROM or DVD drive.

So if someone provides you with a disk that contains copies of your VMWare virtual machines, how do you transfer it? Well, in our case, since we didn’t have replicated VMFS-3 LUNs that we could just connect to as a regular VMWare ESX datastore using the SAN, we had to connect the eSATA drives to a PCI eSATA adapter that was hooked up to a Red Hat Linux server, exported the storage as NFS, and used the vmkernel NFS interface on ESX to copy over the files over the gigabit LAN using the Windows-based VMWare Infrastructure Client.

Typically, the vmkernel NFS interface is used in conjunction with fast NAS appliances with large RAID stripes such as NetApp devices and the like which cost tens of thousands of dollars, not with consumer grade hard disks that you buy at the local Staples or Best Buy hooked up to some random Linux server. So to say that this jury-rig cobbled up solution was not optimal for data transfer would be a gross understatement.

Suffice it to say that it took us well over 10 hours to copy 1 Terabyte of data across the network using this method, and we had several false starts and several aborted transfers, including a few ESX crashes in the process due to network and contention problems, so it really took us about 12-14 hours to do the job and get all our VMs fired up before we could even begin the process of incremental tape restores. I was not a happy camper, and neither was the customer.

An alternative to restoring data in this method would have been to use the VMware Consolidated Backup (VCB) product, which is in effect a VMFS-3 file system driver for Windows.

VCB is used as a “gateway” so that a single Windows server with SAN connectivity to VMWare’s clustered storage can be used for speedier out-of-band backup and restore of the VMDK files, instead of doing slower agent-based network backup and restore from within the virtual machines themselves in conjunction with popular network-based backup software such as IBM Tivoli Storage Manager, Networker, CA ArcServe or NetBackup. However, VCB costs (a lot of) money, and the customer in question didn’t have a license for it.

Let’s face it — enterprises which choose VMWare as their Virtual Infrastructure environment of choice are trusting their data to a proprietary filesystem and a hypervisor which is a black box closed system.

Indeed, Microsoft’s Hyper-V and their NTFS file system are also proprietary, but enough reverse engineering over the last decade has been done to expose NTFS so that it is read-writable by Linux and UNIX, and all modern Microsoft OSes as well as Linux and UNIX OSes thru SAMBA can write to networked NTFS volumes without any problem whatsoever. Recently, through Microsoft’s Open Specification Promise, SAMBA is also becoming more and more “kosher” as a fully certified CIFS/SMB networking solution with the full cooperation of Microsoft.

There are even Linux ext3 file system drivers for Windows should anyone really care to copy data in that direction without the use of SAMBA networking. With Windows and Linux, there are multiple methods for accessing and moving data stored on disk. Now, would I like to see NTFS’s specifications fully opened or a Microsoft certified Linux NTFS driver in Open Source? Sure, but compared to VMWare, Microsoft is utter interoperability paradise.

Providing a network interface via VMWare ESX through NFS and VCB just isn’t good enough. VMWare needs to expose as much of the hypervisor and the underlying file system as much as possible so that better tools for data transfer and data forensics and recovery can be created.

It doesn’t help that VMWare is the industry leader in virtualization and that it abuses its market position by nickel and diming its customers for such things as simple file system interoperability tools like VCB. Backup/Restore software and other operating systems should be able to talk directly to VMFS, period.

It’s time that VMWare’s customers demand better interoperability from the company and its products — or seek more open hypervisor solutions like Hyper-V, Xen and KVM.

Is VMWare abusing its position by locking you out of your own data? Are they making things unnecessarily difficult, proprietary and costly? Talk Back and Let Me Know.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

41
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
monahancj 24th Jan 2011
Ditto on the SCP options. They've worked well for use copying data between vcenters/datacenters. It also sounds like the customer didn't test the restore strategy and just assumed it would work. Finally, if the customer is doing a weekend DR activity they are probably using VMware as an Enterprise (big "E" intentional) product, and cheaped out on the "data transfer" of the VMs. Maybe it's a case of working within the budget you don't control, or maybe it's a case of trying to drive a sports car down a forest access road at high speed: it's not going to go well.
0 Votes
+ -
Sounds bad... How about Red Hat's new stuff?
pjotr123 Updated - 4th Sep 2009
A nasty experience... Have a glass of fine cognac to recover. No ice (the horror!), no mixing (barbaric), at the perfect temperature of 18 degrees Celsius. Cheers. happy

How about Red Hat's new virtualization stuff in RHEL 5.4? Is that a better alternative?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/virtualization/?p=1234

Salut, Pjotr.
I haven't tried KVM in the new RHEL 5.4 version, but by its nature KVM is a very small hypervisor layer integrated in with the Linux kernel. Thus using all the drivers, tools and file systems available to a normal distribution. In the situation Jason described, it has been my experience that the copy would have only taken a hour or two.
0 Votes
+ -
Authoritative
DarienHawk67 4th Sep 2009
"I haven't tried KVM in the new RHEL 5.4 version, but. . . " Okay
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
In all fairness
jperlow Updated - 4th Sep 2009
I know JSchweitzer, and I know he's worked with KVM and Xen extensively, even if he hasn't touched the latest Red Hat release.

KVM uses the QEMU qcow2 file format which is stored on a standard Linux file system. In Redhat's case, that would be EXT3 or EXT4, which it would have no problem reading. There's no reason why you couldn't copy the files over to a standard NTFS or FAT32 drive either.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
jparrott@... 4th Sep 2009
I see your point, but also must point out that VMware recommends running the VSphere server as a VM on your host. Given this, it's easy enough to mount a usb drive to the Windows VM that VSphere (or the VSphere client) is running on, and copy the files to the vmfs-3 storage via the client/server.

Try to keep in mind that VSphere and VMFS-3's target audience is not the do-it-yourselfers who rely on the "freebie" versions of ESXi. The file system is very reliable as a clustered/shared storage solution and works very well for its intended purpose - as a data center solution.

My 2 cents.

Jeff
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
Evan70 4th Sep 2009
You're customer went cheap, and it bit them and you. That's the simple truth with the situation you describe. As the "lead" VMware consultant, you should have been involved even before they started trying to do the DR test, and should have adviced them of the issues before ever getting to the point of trying to make it work. As a VMware consultant myself, I've had customer's try to go cheap on DR solutions for VMware, and it eventually gets to a point where you have to tell the customer that they are making a mistake, and be prepared to walk away from them. Unless that is, you enjoy spending long hours in a datacenter, drinking bad coffee, and eating Twinkies. happy
0 Votes
+ -
'Cheap' may not be the right word.
peter_erskine@... 4th Sep 2009
Some might think that ESX Server is very expensive, even without add-ons. The market will be the judge of this, over the coming two years or so. VMWare had better be careful - they've got a lot to lose!
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
As the lead...
jperlow 4th Sep 2009
You cannot always be brought in to provide architectural oversight when someone else designs the solution or contracts an engagement. In this case, I was asked to come in to assist for availability reasons.
Unless you had absolutely zero heads up on the setup before coming in, you must have expected issues like what you got. Even if you had no prior info on the setup, you can't blame VMware for a poor design decision by the customer or some other consultant. Personally, I have no issues with the way VMware has kept VMFS locked down, in my opinion it had prevented a lot of 3rd parties from screwing around with the file system and causing issues.
0 Votes
+ -
Enter the world of Veeam FastSCP
robert.colbert@... 22nd Sep 2009
Had I been in this situation, I would have pulled out the "big guns" and used Veeam FastSCP. I have moved large VMs on and off non-VMFS storage and now that Veeam supports ESXi, there is no reason not use their free product. Especially since it has inline compression to make that data fly.

I've moved more than a TB of VMDKs across a gigabit LAN in minutes because there was a lot of empty structures (the disks weren't full). It is in places like that where FastSCP is superb. As for the potential issue with sector alignment in VMFS being thrown off due to direct writes to the VMFS volume, since this was a DR exercise, the potential minor performance hit would not be critical and could be resolved during a normal maintenance window had that been a real DR situation.
0 Votes
+ -
Many of them are available for free.

Have you ever tried Veem SCP? We regularly use this product to copy files from ESX Servers to external storage or a cheap NAS (or going in the other direction to the ESX servers) using a workstation running Veem as an intermediary. Our particular setup is limited by the speed of a gigabit ethernet connection but it works just fine and has been tested repeatedly.

I think you way way over complicated your situation.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Actually
jperlow Updated - 4th Sep 2009
I was not aware of the product, but I can't imagine SCP being actually faster than native NFS datastore transfer directly through the vmkernel interface. You're talking about adding encryption overhead there. It sounds like a cool tool for secure transfers of smaller VMs, though.
0 Votes
+ -
Works quite well
cornpie 5th Sep 2009
Veem SCP runs on a Windows machine. It runs as a service and copy jobs can be scheduled. We use EsXpress backup to backup our virtual machines to disk on a separate array in our SAN. The scheduled copy job then copies the compressed backup files to a NAS box via gigabit ethernet. We have two of the NAS boxes with one stored off site and the two are swapped once per week. Our total VDMK's add up to around 600 GB or so but compress down to about 400. Yes, this takes a while, but its acceptable.
0 Votes
+ -
veeam scp not encrypted actually...
andriven 8th Sep 2009
In previous version at least, the data traffic isn't encrypted....I think that
may be an option now.

http://www.google.com/search?
client=safari&rls=en&q=veeam+scp+not+encrypted&ie=UTF-
8&oe=UTF-8

Regardless though, in your situation (i.e. closed network, speed is
paramount) it sounds like no encryption for the data transfer would be
preferable.
Not to be a Monday Morning quarterback on Sunday, I'm just saying....

http://www.glasshouse.com/pub-arts/2007/article061907.html
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Not backup of a raw filesystem
jperlow 6th Sep 2009
I'm talking about -moving- vmdk files to a VMFS-3
drive. Knoppix would only work for COPYING a LOCAL
VMFS-3, and I would still have concerns about
compatability between RAID metadata. No Linux
distribution can read or write to VMFS-3. There is
currently a VMFS read project on Google Code but
no write driver yet.
0 Votes
+ -
u're so crazy talk....
testingusers1 30th Sep 2009
Crazy talk... facts: does Hyper-V support natively EXT2, EXT3, EXT4, REISERFS, etc filesystems? No! Does XEN support NTFS as backend for VM's? ... NO! This is why your comment is so so crazy... it makes no sense!
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
jperlow 7th Sep 2009
Unless you had absolutely zero heads up on the setup
before coming in


Bingo.
0 Votes
+ -
VMFS-3 exists for a reason
crazydanr@... 7th Sep 2009
Vmware spent the time to build a filesystem optimized for the somewhat unique nature of virtual machine files - multiple host access to very large file shares with reliable locking.

I've been out of the game for a year - has anyone caught up with VMware? Can any other solution allow you migrate the VM files while the system is still running? Do any provide the ability to grow the filesystem non-destructively?

These are the kind of benefits a custom fs designed specfically for vm storage has. I don't care if it's closed as long as it's better ( more features, reliability, security) and is well supported.
0 Votes
+ -
Sure there are
cabdriverjim 8th Sep 2009
Solaris ZFS with Xen can live migrate running virtual machines.

Linux GFS2 with KVM or Xen can live migrate running virtual machines when using clustered locking.

ZFS and GFS2 both support growing a filesystem non-destructively without taking the filesystem offline.

VMFS-3 did not have to be proprietary. They did not have to make it so hard to interact with the bare metal OS. They didn't have to develop their own kernel and stop using Linux, either. They chose to do these things. And those choices seem to have spurred a lot of competitors who did not make those same choices.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Microsoft Hyper-V
jperlow 8th Sep 2009
Can also live migrate, plus the new Clustered
Shared Volumes gives it far greater scalability
than VMFS. The fact that Microsoft chose to be
more open and interoperable with their file system
than VMWare is quite telling.
0 Votes
+ -
can't replicate...
andriven 8th Sep 2009
The only minor catch with Hyper-V right now as far as CSV's is that you
can't use storage array-driven replication (not an issue for this customer
but pretty much any customer we have doing DR uses this).

0 Votes
+ -
Mr. Perlow, your article is a statistically insignificant incident which shouldn't have otherwise required a ZDNet "person of authority" to say anything. Many people have talked back with ways to move virtual machines around, and we should realize that these ways are to do with non-proprietary VM formats and tools (like OVF, cp, SCP, etc) and nothing to do with the file system being proprietary or otherwise. However, lemme not repeat what others have already said.

I'd like to point out that your claim that Hyper-V Clustered Shared Volumes (CSV) are more scalable than VMFS are unfortunately not true. This is because of the IO path CSV takes when host2 is interested in doing IO to a file that was owned by host1. It sometimes redirects IO to host1 via the network, and we know that the network and host1's processing capability becomes a bottleneck and extra points of failure compared to VMFS's direct IO paths from all hosts to the device. I better not go into details, but the general takeaway is that CSV often uses hosts as IO proxies and VMFS doesn't. Simple as that! How I wish I could share some "interesting" testing information that we've done internally to compare the 2 things...
0 Votes
+ -
Curious about testing...
shawneve@... 18th Sep 2009
One of my main responsibilities is educating customers on Virtualization and now that involves contrasting Vmware and Hyper-V more and more.
I would love to hear of the testing you have done in this regard....
Please respond to shawneve at hotmail dot com
0 Votes
+ -
Why not vmware convertor?
unixro 8th Sep 2009
Why didn't you use vmware convertor, i've migrated just fine machines made with vmware server 1 to esx/esxi ?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
mr1972 8th Sep 2009
I am coming to the conclusion that messing around with any type of virtual machine technology is head breaking. I was doing a favor for a friend that was using a virtual machine to run a XP install. The machine itself was backed up in multiple locations so the data should have been saved and the restore should have been easy. The virtual machine suite (VirtualBox) wouldn't recognise it's own virtual hard drive!!! After many painful troubleshooting hours, I finally had to make a clean new disk and add the old virtual hard disk as a secondary drive.Finally I rebuilt the drive, file by file, program by program. I admit there might have been a more elegant solution out there but I had limited time to find it and I tried about 25 different things before finding my own solution. I admit I am not an expert in any way but re-installing a virtual machine and adding the old virtual hard drive should not have been that painful or complicated.
0 Votes
+ -
vCenter Converter Standalone
edevriendt 8th Sep 2009
VMware now has a tool called vCenter Converter Standalone which can be used to convert VMs.
There are two versions: one running on Windows and the other running on Linux.
With this tool you can connect the USB disk to your local PC (running windows or Linux) and transfer the VM from the disk to a ESXi server.
0 Votes
+ -
NFS server from Linux?
andriven 8th Sep 2009
Hmm....if you're comfortable with Linux, why not just plug all
the USB drives into a Linux box (or OpenFiler) and then share
out the drives via NFS? (one NFS export per drive)

Even the free ESXi allows NFS so should work without data
copying I'd think....
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
That is exactly what we did
jperlow 8th Sep 2009
read the piece... however the transfer was slow and unreliable.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
sloneycho 8th Sep 2009
For this, I would have used VMware Server (free product) to "reconstitute" the VMs, and VMware Studio (free product) to turn them into virtual appliances. vClient can then take the vApps and import them to your ESX / ESXi environment, complete with built-in data integrity checks.

In the future, I would have the VMs backed up as vApps from the beginning.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
aipdiggs 9th Sep 2009
Good article. I agree with the comments regarding
preparing the customer with the potential outcomes prior
to walking blindly into the unknowns of an un-tested DR
solution. With your article in mind, I posted another
possible response via
Sun's United Storage servers.

Hopefully this option will help others avoid these woes and
provide a more reliable and predictable VM DR strategy.

http://www.thezonemanager.com/2009/09/one-solution-
for-vmfs-3-woes.html

Brad
0 Votes
+ -
I can ...
pironet@... 12th Sep 2009
feel a lot of frustrations in your post mate...

You can attach USB storage devices to a ESX host, COS will load up USB 1.1 driver which eventually will recognize a USB 2.x device. But it is not the purpose of a COS period!
http://www.global-domination.org/vmw-extusb.php

Now they are other more convenient methods, export/import to OVF, WinSCP, mount as an iSCSI target, mount as a NFS share, etc...

You should have postponed your customer DR test and attend VMworld2009 mate wink

Cheers,
Didier
0 Votes
+ -
It is a purpose-built file system, end of story and is best of breed in my opinion.

Further, no one should be in the business of moving VMDK (or .VHD files). Build a virtual appliance and put it in a cloud for export.

http://rickvanover.com
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
shrouded 18th Sep 2009
Mr. Perlow, I'm sad to say I'm quite disappointed in your post.

You experienced a slow and frustrating DR exercise with a client using the free ESXi product and consumer-grade equipment. I'm unsure how VMWare can be seen to be nickel-and-dining a customer using free products, but we'll ignore that for now. We've all been in your situation at least once, and felt the need to vent afterward.

Blaming these issues on the filesystem, however, degrades your credibility to experienced readers and misleads your inexperienced ones.

Your client obviously planned poorly for their DR. They also obviously hadn't tested their DR measures in the lab before using them in at time-sensitive event, which is also a critical failure. You were unaware of the faster methods for getting the job done, which implies you might not have been the right person for the task.

I doubt a reasonable post-mortem of the DR event would find that any of these issues were due to the vendor's filesystem.

It is disappointing that you also failed to mention many of the advantages using VMFS in a DR scenario provides, and the limitations and trade-offs associated with CSV. I'm sure other bloggers will be picking these apart at length and correcting your errors on other sites.

I will be taking a break from reading the ZDNet blogs, as I'm sure some other experienced people in the trenches will. I only hope admins still learning the ropes will take your rant with a grain of salt and evaluate the options on their own.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
shawneve@... 18th Sep 2009
This has nothing to do with VMFS, the issue is ESX cannot natively mount a FAT32 filesystem on one of its USB/SATA ports. Just because other general purpose OS's can doesn't mean a purpose-built hypervisor should.
Does Hyper-V (the hypervisor) have this capability? Actually, No it doesn't, the parent partition does. And having the ability to mount external media should be seen as a security issue, not a 'feature'
0 Votes
+ -
Wow! All that experience and you never heard of any of the free utilities out there for managing VMFS files systems.

Even worse, your article implies that VmWare is abusing it's power, denying customers access to their data. Ridiculous. When customers go on the cheap or receive bad advice from self-proclaimed VmWare consultants, it often leads to poor design decisions and lonely nights in the data center. Enjoy the coffee.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
Rynardts 22nd Sep 2009
I certainly wouldn't want to work or deal with you or your company is this is how you place blame on what is a real novice mistake. Try using enterprise level hardware and not consumer grade disks next time, will you?

The blame should be placed with you for using the wrong hardware, not the file system. VMFS-3 is capable of handling more than 250,000 IOPs, so I doubt that it could be to blame for your lame attempt of DR.
0 Votes
+ -
VCB Costs a lot of money?
collin@... 22nd Sep 2009
Jason,

How do you figure that VCB costs a lot of money? Is it that VCB is INCLUDED in every licensed versions of vSphere? Is it that VCB-enabled backup utilities are widely available for MUCH less than traditional backup apps?

An educational customer of mine recently enabled FULL VCB backup using Veeam Backup (you know, the guys who sell - er, give away for FREE - FastSCP) for less than the cost of their traditional backup renewal. It provided them with quick, LAN-free imaging of their virtual machines PLUS incremental, etc. Oh, and it is licensed per ESX socket - not per-agent like an agent-based backup would be...

Funny you have not heard of FastSCP or Veeam Backup yet you have the cred to be a VMware lead. You honestly CAN'T go to a VMware event and NOT see the Veeam guys. They're only the second link in a Google search for "vcb backup" - right behing VMware's.

That's not to say that FastSCP was the only OTHER way to migrate your storage - just like the NFS conversion was not the only way - but you've missed the chance to bring home another point about DR - you can't squeeze RTO out of a USB device when you're talking about TB's of storage.

If you saturated your 1Gbps NFS link, you're still talking over 2.5 hours IF your storage can deliver the link saturation. With "consumer grade" eSATA or USB2.0 disks, that's probable going to require your backup to be spread-out over 5-7 disks with no contention. If you're pulling from a single disk, your going to be waiting a long time... something like 13 hours...

With vSphere, there are pluggable aspects to storage and networking that can be exploited through API's available to vendor partners. Tools based on this tech provide much of the "interoperability" your saying does not exist for VMware.

In my opinion, your use case is weak to criticize VMware - especially VMFS - as being at fault. As you are already aware, NFS is OPEN and can be chosen (and is being chosen) over VMFS based on the architect's choice. While VCB is not really an option with NFS, it's not really needed in the NFS case either. Many SAN/NAS vendors already support VMware-aware snapshot capabilities that provide consistent images of VM's using NFS storage backings.

Want to talk about WEAK inter-op on the storage side? How about Microsoft's lack of a decent NFS facility? Their cobbled-up attempt at NFS compatibility is enough to make any admin curse the idea. Since VCB is essentially based on a VMFS3 driver for Windows, it would appear that the real non-player at the table is Microsoft by your standards. Fortuantely, your SAN/NAS vendor has you covered there, since MOST NAS systems work NFS/CIFS into the same file system - allowing you to SMB/CIFS into them from the Microsoft side and NFS out on the VMware side.

We all know that the VI Client interface to storage is a JOKE when performance is needed. Try copying a 10GB file and you'll see. However, it DOES work and can be used to schlep files from the SMB/CIFS/Windows domain into the VMFS3 domain with nothing but a network cable.

VMware's lack of support for USB extends to the fact that VMFS3 cannot exist on a USB storage device and NOT that USB storage is not possible. While USB storage is abstracted as SCSI for the purposes of ESX, the CAPABILITIES are not consistent with the reliability necessary for a "bet the farm" file system needed in virtualization. Is the vendor (VMware) trying to tell you something in denying access to "cheap" storage? Hell yes they are: file integrity is EVERYTHING.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
mysidia 22nd Sep 2009
Re: "The only way you can move data in and out of their VMFS-3 file system is using their provided proprietary tools, in this case the VMWare vCenter Client"

Not true, you can use Trilead VMX or Veeam FastSCP to transfer your files; there are third-party tools that can manage data on VMFS datastores.

Don't use ESXi though, use one of the full blown ESX versions that includes service console. Upload speed to ESXi is capped around 10 MB/s, unless you perform your file transfers through vCenter.

Compared to other solutions, ESX is dirt cheap, and you don't need the kitchen sink license. You can upload 40 - 80MB/s over gigabit connections, and it should take at most 5 hours.

See here:
http://www.veeam.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=985


Personally, I would have suggested registering the VMs on the NFS share, and using the "Migrate VM" option within vCenter to migrate them to the VMFS volume.

(Just don't start the VMs until they are all moved)

0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
idonot12bonZDnet 29th Sep 2009
Your basic ignorance of the purpose of VMFS unequivocally disqualifies you as a "VMWare Lead".

The capacties, features, and stability of VMFS are superior to that of any competing technology. It is a travesty that someone who claims expertise in enterprise computing expects any one technology to be a panacea.

VMFS IS NOT AN SMB OR NFS FILE SHARE. Your implication that VMware should have designed a system that facilitates the lowest common denominator of storage is quite simply pedantic.

As several others have pointed out (and you neglect to acknowledge) there are a plethora of ways you could have faciliated the activity required to complete your test.

Turn in your VMware credentials and go nurse at the teat of Microsoft.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee
monahancj 24th Jan 2011
Ditto on the SCP options. They've worked well for use copying data between vcenters/datacenters. It also sounds like the customer didn't test the restore strategy and just assumed it would work. Finally, if the customer is doing a weekend DR activity they are probably using VMware as an Enterprise (big "E" intentional) product, and cheaped out on the "data transfer" of the VMs. Maybe it's a case of working within the budget you don't control, or maybe it's a case of trying to drive a sports car down a forest access road at high speed: it's not going to go well.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix