Tech Broiler

Jason Perlow and Scott Raymond

Was Intel's x86 the "gateway drug" for Apple's ARM?

By | March 15, 2010, 3:00am PDT

Summary: Apple’s move to the x86 Intel architecture for the Macintosh in 2005 may have only been a temporary stop on the way to its logical end-state: the acquisition of PA Semi and the creation of ARM-based personal computers.

Special Report: Apple iPad

Apple’s move to the x86 Intel architecture for the Macintosh in 2005 may have only been a temporary stop on the way to its logical end-state: the acquisition of PA Semi and the creation of ARM-based personal computers. (artwork by Spidermonkey)

I have been told that I am someone who speculates a great deal. However, like anyone who tries to make predictions about the industry, such speculation is based upon observing historical behavior and analyzing current trends on order to try to develop a vision for a future state. Other friends of mine like to call this “pulling stuff out of my ass”. I’ll meet them halfway.

Click on the “Read the rest of this entry” link below for more.

If you closely examine the history of Apple, you will see that time and time again, the company makes strategic choices which allow it to increasingly take control of its customers, its ecosystem and its intellectual property. Indeed, Apple has always isolated itself from the rest of the industry, but as it has matured, it has become even more of a locked-down ecosystem.

The History

The Macintosh, Apple’s flagship computer product, has undergone quite a bit of changes since its launch in 1984. Originally, it was based on Motorola’s 68000 architecture and used custom firmware along with its proprietary operating system. Ten years later, in order to make pace with technology and performance, the Macintosh hardware architecture was changed to PowerPC and CHRP, along with other relevant OS changes.

In 1997, Apple acquired NeXT, the company that Steve Jobs founded after his ouster as Apple CEO in 1984, and NeXT’s remaining intellectual property — the OpenStep operating system and APIs — became the foundation of Mac OS X.

In 2005, When Apple could no longer extract any more performance out of the desktop-class PowerPC chips and started to fall considerably behind the PC in technology, it went to the only other architecture it could viably pursue — the Intel x86. Which brings us where we are today. In 2010.

In 2010, the Mac faces a number of problems that can only be resolved by yet another paradigm shift. One of these problems is that although the x86 Mac uses a different type of firmware than the Intel PC architecture, the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) — Mac hackers have been successful in being able to trick the operating system to run on much less expensive clone hardware using software-based EFI emulation on PC BIOS using modified Darwin bootloaders.

One of these hackers, Rudy Pedraza, started up a mail order business in South Florida and sold what amounted to glorified PCs running Apple’s Mac OS X. That company, Psystar, was litigated into oblivion.

While Apple through the force of its financial might was able to successfully litigate a tiny American company and make its cloning operations cease, the company still faces the real possibility that other nations with less favorable legal systems may be able to sustain businesses based on cloned Macs. And while Psystar is dead, the technology that it used to build its systems continues to be heavily developed by the clandestine Hackintosh community.

Additionally, and probably most importantly, further advances in X86 virtualization technology which permits abstraction of the OS from the hardware could potentially allow a consumer in the near future to install the Mac OS on their own PCs without a whole lot of fuss. Apple has been resisting implementing virtualization on Mac OS X, and for good reason — they don’t want to enable the people that could possibly damage their cash cow.

Based on Apple’s patterns of 10-year technology refresh cycles and the company’s increased isolationist behavior, all of this points to one thing — another paradigm shift for the company is due. If 2005 and moving to x86 was the last paradigm shift, then the next one is due in 2014 or 2015. However, just like any Silicon Valley earthquake, you always get a few tremors and smaller quakes before the Big One hits.

The Future

While the iPod was the first little “tremor” that signaled a trend towards becoming more of a consumer electronics company than a computer company, it was the introduction of the iPhone in 2007 was the first “quake” which indicated another massive change was in store for the company.

With the iPhone, Apple ported much of its core BSD-based operating system, Darwin, to the ARM architecture, along with its Objective C development platform from Mac OS X. While it must have seemed logical to many to re-use existing assets in order to facilitate the development of the iPhone on the ARM architecture, what Apple really did was stage their transition/migration plan according to what they would actually be doing with their next generation of desktop and portable computers — Multi-core ARM-based Macs.

Also Read: Do we need to wipe the slate with x86?

Apple’s $278 million purchase of Palo Alto Semiconductor (PA Semi) in 2008 gave the company the final piece of the puzzle they needed to become fully independent of Intel and any other microprocessor vendor, and would allow them to return to the completely closed system which they enjoyed in the 1980s and 1990s.

The first fruit of Apple’s labor with PA Semi will be the generation 1 iPad, which uses specially designed custom ARM Cortex A8-based silicon, the A4 processor.

While the 1Ghz A4 isn’t powerful enough to run a Mac today, I believe that the next logical step is for Apple to continue to evolve the silicon into more and more cores and at higher clock speeds. With iPad 2, we might very well see 2 cores and certainly a higher clock speed.

The next step would be to move to 4 cores and larger amounts of cache, which may present enough computing power to form the basis of the next generation Macbooks or iMacs. It is not implausible that within five years, six and eight-core or even sixteen-core Apple ARM chips could be released. Large amounts of cores with lower power chips are not out of the question, as this is where Intel and AMD are both going, and where Sun was going until it went down the path of acquisition.

Given the fact that there are now more applications for the iPhone/iPad ecosystem than there are for the Mac, and that the App Store software distribution is completely controlled by Apple, it makes perfect sense that Apple would move the Mac to a 100 percent proprietary platform, now that it is seeded by many developers and many applications.

It is also notable that the ARM architecture itself given the amount of shipped chips on cell phones and other devices rivals the x86 desktop ecosystem or possibly will even exceed it in the near future depending on whose figures you look at. Intel itself is already examining this market very closely, particularly with its most recent acquisition of Wind River, which it purchased in June of 2009.

Wind River creates software development and hypervisor stacks for embedded systems architectures, of which TI’s OMAP and the Qualcomm Snapdragon, both ARM chips, are among the most popular used in Smartphones today. Intel also continues to manufacture the ARMADA (formerly Intel XScale) embedded processor for Marvell. Given this heavy trend towards embedded I believe that Intel may follow Apple’s lead and decide to purchase an ARM/embedded asset, such as Marvell, Freescale Semiconductor or possibly even Texas Instruments.

It is not that much of a stretch to imagine a beefed-up iPad with a larger screen, keyboard and mouse, with multiple processor cores and back-end connectivity to Apple’s massive datacenters running Cloud services. You can call this the Macintosh TNG, or the “Cloudintosh”, but I already gave this computer a name.

“The Screen”

While I believe there will be Google/Linux-Screens and even Microsoft “Screens” (as evidenced by developments in Android, Chrome OS, Ubuntu, MeeGo and Windows 7 Phone Series) it actually makes sense for Apple to be the first company to pioneer with “Screen technology.

Effectively, the iPad is the first Screen or the Proto-Screen. The next logical step is to scale up the size of the display to full 1080p with a faster multi-core CPU, more powerful graphics processing with multi-tasking and windowing, with tons of Cloud horsepower to back it up — a synthesis between iPhone OS and Mac OS where the entire means of production, the systems architecture and the software/content delivery mechanism to the device is entirely Apple-controlled.

Also Read: I’ve Seen the Future of Computing. It’s a Screen.

Poll

Will the next generation Mac actually be an evolution of an ARM-based iPad?

Indeed, it is entirely possible that everything I have said is pure conjecture, and I could be inferring far too much from Apple’s activities in the past three to five years. When I revisit this subject in 2015, I’m curious as to how close or how far off my predictions were. Talk Back and Let Me Know what you think.

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Topics

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet, is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Disclosure

Jason Perlow

My Full-Time Employer is IBM. I write as a freelancer for ZDNet.

Disclaimer: The postings and opinions on this blog are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

I own no investments or direct financial instruments in the companies I write about.

Biography

Jason Perlow

Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple ][ personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet. Jason was previously Senior Technology Editor for Linux Magazine, where he wrote about Open Source issues from 1999 to 2008.

In his spare time, Jason is an avid amateur chef and food writer, where his work reviewing New Jersey restaurants has appeared in The New York Times. He is also the founder of the popular food web site eGullet and blogs about restaurants and cooking at OffTheBroiler.com.

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RE: Was Intel's x86 the
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0 Votes
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I'll meet you halfway.
A Grain of Salt 15th Mar 2010
I agree this is the way that Apple is heading with its
"consumer" range; iPod through iPad. Complete control
over the package to ensure a good user experience and to
protect the profits. Smart business.

But, while full powered laptop and desktop computers are
needed, and Windows is still King of the environment,
Apple has little choice but to stay with an x86 chipset. It
wasn't until they changed to x86 that the Mac really took
off. Many Mac users still need to have Windows support
for archaic programs that rely on activeX and other
Windows only protocols.

So, the only time I see that Apple will be able to move
completely ARM, if that is indeed what they wish to do, is
when Windows can run unhindered on it or the World loses
its Windows dependence. I'll dig you up when it happens.
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Agree.
Sleeper Service 15th Mar 2010
If Macs can't run Windows or all Windows apps then their sales will nosedive.
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Apple won't move their laptops and desktops to ARM until Microsoft ...
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 15th Mar 2010
... supports ARM too.

Why? Microsoft and Apple need each other as viable competitors and sometimes as awkward bedfellows.

Without credible competition, Microsoft will face yet another barrage of attacks from those claiming that it has an unfair monopoly.

Without Microsoft, Apple doesn't have a strong sales story of "use your Mac for all your new stuff ... and when you need to run legacy apps, you can always boot into Windows or even run Windows sumultaneously!".

Don't discount Mac's ability to run Windows - for most business people, its an absolutely necessary evil and without that capability, Mac is not a viable business platform.

What WOULD be interesting is if future Mac's were to have an Apple ARM CPU embedded on the motherboard, enabling the x86 core(s) to be powered up/down as necessary.
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hope you're right
tech_walker 15th Mar 2010
the best thing about my Mac Book Pro is its
ability to run the 2 best OS out there seamlessly
without any stupid hacks.
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Acorn Computers (UK) recognised the need for Windows compatibility in the early days (late 80s) and built a twin processor machine called the RISC PC. The 80486 chip had to have a fan to keep it cool. The ARM chip was just cool. So yes, that is a possibility, and maybe Apple could go that route and demonstrate the superiority of the ARM processor. And who knows, maybe Microsoft might start writing Windows for ARM based PCs?
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Dude - you're way off.
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 15th Mar 2010
Acorn's BBC Micro had "The Tube" interface (underneath) to which you could attach a Z-80 or 6502 co-processor.

Acorn designed and built the Acorn RISC Machine processor - the worlds' first commercially available RISC CPU, beating others to the market by a few months.

The ARM processor first appeared in the Arhchimedes A305/310 in 1997 which is where I learned to write ARM assembly code happy The barrel-shifter ROCKED!

Recognize the A.R.M. abbreviation - yep, Acorn's ARM processor was spun off into Advanced RISC Machines and is the owner of the IP & most of the core CPU designs implemented by the ARM chips that you have in most of your cellphones, MP3 players, etc. today, and iPad/iPhone/WP7S and other devices in the future.

And, no, the ARM-PC did NOT contain an x86 CPU - the ARM6 CPU it used was fast enough to emulate an x86 CPU of the day more than fast enough to run most apps. You *COULD* add an x86 co-processor card to speed up your x86 apps if you wanted, but that was an optional add-on.

Microsoft already ported Windows to ARM (codenamed StrongARM) once before during the ill-fated Longhorn project (the cancelled pre-cursor to Vista). There was no market for Windows on ARM back then but who knows, perhaps there is one now? We can but hope wink
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Re: Dude...
dave52 16th Mar 2010
Acorn designed and built the Acorn RISC Machine processor - the
worlds' first commercially available RISC CPU, beating others to the
market by a few months.


And trailing the CDC 6600 by about 20 years.
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Been done before.
djchandler 15th Mar 2010
"Don't discount Mac's ability to run Windows
- for most business people, its an absolutely
necessary evil and without that capability, Mac
is not a viable business platform.

"What WOULD be interesting is if future Mac's
were to have an Apple ARM CPU embedded on the
motherboard, enabling the x86 core(s) to be
powered up/down as necessary."


The Quadra line and I think maybe even the
early PowerPC line had an Intel CPU on an
expansion card to run Windows stuff about 15
years ago. That's an expensive solution in my
opinion. It was then and is now, plus requires
a beefier power supply. I wouldn't consider it
on a laptop in any way shape or form.

And there's no room to shoe horn expansion
cards into the current footprint of iMac
desktops or MacMinis. Macs aren't going to get
bigger.

Your opening premise doesn't make sense at all.
Apple went for almost 30 years without
supporting any hardware architecture compatible
with MS operating systems (unless you consider
Xenix, but they had A/UX and AIX instead). And
why would Apple care if moving to ARM caused MS
to have a legal problem?

The more likely prerequisite is Apple won't go
100% ARM until they can support virtualization
of the x86 and x64 instructions sets on
the ARM cpu and fast enough to not frustrate
end-users. A cross-licensing from AMD along
with a manufacturing contract with Global
Foundries could solve those problems. I have a
suspicion that we may soon find out why AMD
caved in so quickly to the 1 billion settlement
from Intel.
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... but have you ever met the ARM?
JohnOfStony 15th Mar 2010
The ARM was designed by Acorn Computers in Cambridge, UK because neither the Intel 8086 nor the Motorola 68000 (the 2 major 16 bit processors available at the time) could match the 8 bit 6502 processor in certain respects, such as interrupt latency, and Acorn was not prepared to replace its 8 bit 6502 based machine with a 16 bit computer with inferior performance in any respect.

Intel took the compatibility-at-register-level approach to designing a 16 bit processor with the limitations that such an approach necessitates.
Motorola (chosen by Apple) used the compatibility-at-assembly-language-level approach which still had limitations (and it meant all software had to be recompiled to run on the 68000) but was significantly less limited than Intel's approach.
Acorn decided to forget all about compatibility at any level in the design and came up with a processor so fast and efficient that a software emulator of the 6502 could run 6502 programs on the ARM and perform as well or better than the original 6502 chip. This approach had no design limitations yet retained full backward compatibility via the emulator.

If the ARM could do that in its early days with the limitations that the technology of the time imposed, I see no reason why an ARM processor today couldn't outperform anything that Intel or anyone else could design - given access to the latest technology. So come on ARM, show Apple what you can do and maybe in 10 years time we'll be looking back on X86 based computers with amusement at the huge amounts of power they consumed to do 'simple' computing tasks.
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"I see no reason why an ARM processor today couldn't outperform anything ..
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 15th Mar 2010
... that Intel or anyone else could design"

No matter how much you might like it to be true, it won't be true!

ARM CPU's are amazing - I've been programming ARM on and off since they were first released in the Acorn Archimedes A305. But make no mistake - Intel's x86 architecture has some major benefits that ARM just cannot match:

1) Instruction density: x86 CPU's can fetch one word at a time from memory. Each fetch may return one or more instructions. ARM, on the other hand, has fixed width word-wide instructions that only permit one instruction per fetch. ARM introduced the variable-length THUMB and THUMB2 subsets of the ARM instruction-set to try and improve ARM's density, they still aren't as efficient as x86.

2) ARM is a load-store architecture requiring all data to be read into the CPU, operated upon and results stored back in memory. x86, on the other hand, can usually operate directly on memory itself.

Of course, ARM CPU's can be highly efficient in terms of code execution (esp. techniques to minimize branches), but these benefits are often offset by the enormous impedence mis-match of the memory bus.

Where ARM does excel is in thermal and electrical efficiency due to the relative simplicity of their CPU's core implementation. That is why ARM is the primary choice for powerful portable electronic devices today.

Intel is getting MUCH better at creating highly efficient CPU's and has the benefit of an ENORMOUS market of software that runs on their CPU's.

Essentially, ARM and Intel are on a course to collide as ARM increases computational power and Intel improves its chips' thermal and electrical efficiencies. It's going to be fascinating to watch these two duke it out.
0 Votes
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BS walks, perfornance talks
loupgarous 16th Mar 2010
That may have been true back in the old days, but I'd like to see actual benchmarks between modern machines, not reminiscing.

I mean, the Z-80 blew the 6502's doors off on numerical tasks and some software benchmarks, too - which, following your reasoning, would mean Intel architecture should still rule, because the xxx86 instruction set is a superset of the Z-80s and the chips are a clear evolution from the Z-80 design.

Heredity means nothing in silicon systems. Performance in the user environment determines market share. When Pentiums matured to the point where they could run complex GUI-based software, Macs lost their edge in the marketplace, because of the intense price competition in the WinTel market.

Apple needs, more than a new proprietary hardware environment, someone to compete with them on their own turf, to keep them on their toes. Well, actually, whenever someone (like HRC or Psystar) tries to compete with Apple on something they consider to be proprietary to them (like desktops running their OS, or smartphones that work like iPhones) they respond with lawsuits instead of competing back at their competitors and developing even cooler stuff the wannabees can't make.

Ah, the "look and feel" lawsuit - again. That is typical Apple behavior - suing over the graphical user interface, something they copied from Xerox PARC, and something that Palm and Handspring have priority on in hand-held devices, if anyone does.
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The article may have a point, but poorly worded.
dgurney Updated - 16th Mar 2010
The fact is that Apple is no longer interested in any computer applications sold after the computer purchase. They don't care about "pro" apps anymore; they want to be able to tell computer shoppers that yes, they can look at pictures, slap together a home video, and surf the Web. Then they're out the door and gone.

The only apps Apple cares about are the ones it can skim revenue from, and that means the App Store. To take the App Store to larger devices, then yes, limiting it to ARM would deter hackers because no legitimate PCs run on ARM chips.
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The virtual authorized Apple dealer....
loupgarous 16th Mar 2010
...is the App store (and the AT&T shop where iPhones are sold here in the US). Top-down control over merchandising, OS, hardware and software.

Apple would be wise to confine their ARM adventure to their niche apps - iPhones, iPods, iPads, "screens" - which are primarily consumer items with great brand loyalty attached to them.

No IT managers who have to justify massive corporate buys, no need for the product to work and play well with other computing gear, a distinctive look-and-feel which Apple thinks is worth suing over, despite the fact that Palm and Handspring have priority on most of the things that an iPhone can do.

In THAT environment, an ARM-based PC is plausible. Plenty of folks now insist that their personally-owned iMacs and iBooks are just incredible (which, taken literally, might be true) and outperform Intel iron. They're entitled to their opinion. I own several Macs from many points in Apple history; I use a WinTel laptop running Vista.

In an business environment, though, ARM is an imponderable. Will it, with a proprietary Apple OS, work with the customer's files? How much work will it be to interface an ARM Mac to the corporate LAN, to legacy minicomputers and mainframes? Will 3rd party vendors even be interested in writing interfacing apps like Rumba for the new ARM PCs? And how many new hardware specifications will arise because Apple doesn't feel like supporting (say) USB any more?
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Jason...Jason....Jason... Quit reading the TP!
Wolfie2K3 Updated - 15th Mar 2010
Several things wrong with that story...

1.) Back in the day, when the first Macs were running 6800x processors, wasn't it Motorola who was making them...?

They were NEVER independent in the chip arena.

2.) You completely missed WHY that little paradigm shift to Intel chips was so significant. Their hardware could now run Windows. BIG advantage there for them to allow that. I think you'll find the big sales spike right about the time they announced Boot Camp and Parallels.

Shifting AWAY from that could easily backfire and send the company back into the obscure little niche it was in before the switch.

3.) As for Apple getting upset about the hackintosh scene - Sure.. I'm sure they're a bit pissy about that sort of thing - but do they really care? No. It's still a bit of a pain to cook up a hackintosh system and get it right AND Apple still winds up getting themselves $129 for the OS (assuming the pirate is willing to spend the money for it). As long as it doesn't become an obvious, blatant and organized effort - i.e. Psystar - they probably are willing to look the other way.

4.) ARM processors - at the moment are less capable than the X86 family. While it MAY be adequate for a phone, a wannabe tablet/fancy ebook reader, digital music/video device, I'm not so sure it can handle the really heavy lifting that Macheads need, want AND expect. For them to switch to something - even IF it had 20 cores, it still may not match what they've got now.

5.) Adding more cores generally means adding a bigger load to the power system. Unless a radical power solution can be found, battery life is gonna suck hard on portable devices.

I don't think they're gonna go quite where you think they're heading. They may, indeed, be trying to future proof their chip supply especially for their new gadgets, phones and such, but to move their desktop operations as well?

That'd be tantamount to suicide..
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Well stated points.
rock06r 15th Mar 2010
I would like to add that the development of chips is best left to the (few) chip developers... and these days there are really only a handful of contenders that can pony up the billions of dollars necessary to create a viable foundry (Intel/AMD/IBM) to then mass produce them. For example, IBM built a new foundry in Fishkill, NY for approx $3.5 Billion (and the price keeps going up). While I understand that it *may* be in Apple's interest to invest in their own hardware, I don't see the manufacturing costs of owning a foundry PLUS god-knows-how-much cost in development costs and not to mention development D.E.L.A.Y.S. By the time they finally get up to the current speeds of AMD/Intel chips the PC's will be on 8 cores running at 5 GHz. It's a moving target, and unless you at least have them in your scope you'll never catch up. It makes no business sense whatsoever - unless they have some other trump in their cards and are keeping quiet about it. But let's face it, ARM's belong in cell phones and PDA's like the IPAD, not desktops, servers (EGADS), and laptops.
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ever heard of fabless ?
s_souche 15th Mar 2010
You have two separate business in chips, design
and manufacture.
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Precisely
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 15th Mar 2010
Samsung are making Apple's A4's today, but Apple could shift their manufacturing to TSMC or other chip fabs almost at the drop of a hat.
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Amen! [nt]
Timpraetor 15th Mar 2010
NT
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I'd also look at the hackintosh market from the other way. The market
sector that wants to fiddle around with their computers so as to get
the operating system (!) to work is truly small. Even if hackintoshing
was snap easy, it requires opening a manual and is fraught with peril:
will the next update mean I have to tweak stuff to get back to what I
have today, which may be a compromise to begin with.

And I come back to this, if people in general, were willing to be
adventurous so as to save a few hundred dollars, we'd have a lot more
Linux desktops out there.

Now, where Mr. Perlow makes a major error is in his emphasis on
Apple's alleged control-freakery. Apple's big lesson and it goes back
to the 1980s is that the consumers look at a device, in a wholistic
way, and primarily for what the device does. The manufacturer
implements the device with software and hardware and the best
devices make the underlying engineering invisible. While there are
those people who will want to super-charge their toasters, for most
folks, something that looks nice on the counter and which toasts the
bread is enough. You can only toast two pieces of bread in a single
thread and there is only one thread? Okay.

If the user experience is the dog that wags the tail of profitability,
well, it is fully understandable that Apple makes sure that
independent people don't screw up the experience and tarnish their
brand.

So, I imagine the PA Semiconductor acquisition is not about
transitioning the Mac back to non-Intel, though, if Intel became
unresponsive to Apple's requests, it is a possible leverage point. It is
about having more control on the hardware side of their consumer
devices, which are only incidentally computers, and which will be sold
as a personal music player, a smart phone, an internet media display,
and so on in the future.

I mean, after all, Apple's success with the iPhone didn't mean they
went back and put a telephone in the Mac. I suspect that the Mac will
remain a personal computer and be as "open" as it is now. Being able
to say to a customer "... and you can run Windows if you want." is a
sales pitch this is very useful, as has been pointed out elsewhere
today.
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Just a Couple of Things
CFWhitman 15th Mar 2010
You hit the nail on the head for your first two points.

As to point number 3, I agree in essence. Just a bit of a technicality here. Hackintosh users are not "pirates" unless they don't buy the OS. Yes, Apple would love to keep organized efforts like Psystar from existing, but Psystar made it too easy for them by not purchasing OSX for every system they sold. That made them clearly in violation of copyright.

I think their justification was that one OSX license was good for more than one machine when purchased by a Mac user. However, they failed to grasp the subtleties of copyright law or the license for OSX. The license can't be split between households. You can use it on more than one computer of your own, you can't load it on one of yours and those of two friends.

The key to your fourth point isn't any lack in the ARM architecture. It's the question of who will push ARM in the right direction to power desktops. It's the same issue they faced with PowerPC chips. The design of the PowerPC chip was certainly not hampered from being pushed as far as x86, but nobody was pushing in the right direction. Motorola's research and development was going toward low power chips for handheld devices. IBM wasn't concerned about economies of scale and making a powerful enough chip cheaply enough. The question is, will anyone push ARM in the direction it needs to go to once again conquer the desktop?

Point number 5 I don't see being an issue as much for ARM as for x86. Just because you develop a quad core ARM for the desktop doesn't mean you have to use it for portable devices. If anything, ARM still has an advantage for power consumption over anything based on x86 architecture.
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Ok...
Wolfie2K3 15th Mar 2010
Re: Point 3 - Point taken. Wasn't aware that Psystar wasn't shipping a fresh copy of OSX with every system. Silly move on their part.

Point 4 - I was under the assumption that IBM/Motorola couldn't meet the demand Apple had for the G5 chip and a mobile G5 chip was just not happening - and that is why they switched to Intel.

Point 5 - It may be a concern if it takes that quad core ARM chip to do the equivalent of a dual core X86 based chip. In which case, it would be an issue.
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What a crock!
Eriamjh 15th Mar 2010
The survey question has it right: this story is "rectal extrusion" at its best: baseless.

ARM processors are not suitable for desktops. Never will be. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad will continue to sell and continue to bring more PC converts to Mac as they realize the more stable ecosystem of Apple products makes their i-products even better. The halo effect has taken years to become a significant factor and the Apple store is helping to make it happen.

Macs are profitable to Apple. Faster than ever, the ability to run windows is a feature, but only to help converts feel comfortable switching.

Apple's Macs are expensive compared to equally powered PC counterparts, but just as cars all drive on the same roads, but some cost a lot more, Apple will continue to control the premium spectrum of the market. That 27" quad iMac is a beauty, isn't it?
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I guess it's a beauty if...
evilkillerwhale@... 15th Mar 2010
...it's running Windows 7.

Mac hasn't taken market from Microsoft. If someone
wants to quote the latest numbers, they need to
take into account how many Windows licenses are
sold. I know very few people who switched to Mac
without bringing Windows. The ones who were always
Mac are still always Mac, and the ones who weren't
still run Windows.
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RE: I guess it's a beauty it...
/A\V/ 15th Mar 2010
That's not entirely true.

I used to run IT for a small business that ran entirely on Microsoft -
everything from Exchange to SPP. Web services, filestore, everything
was on MS SMBS.

I eventually quit that company, and in the process, switched to a
company that uses Macs primarily (we still have some Dell servers
running Windows and MSSQL (for RMS) CentOS (Asterisk) and Fedora
(some webservices), and many users have adopted PCs, but I, for one,
have completely embraced the Mac environment. I love the BSD core,
and the BASH shell, I love the stability, and I love the absolute ease of
use.

I have a Boot Camp partition, yes, but it has had, first WindowsXP, that
I ran maybe twice, and now, Windows 7, that I have not run since it
was installed. And since we're using MAKs and not KMS, I'm probably
going to have a rather difficult time getting anything done on it if and
when I run it again, since it's been installed for well over 30 days, and
I haven't installed the MAK yet.

If i need to test something in IE, i have an Acer Netbook that sits
around for that one and only purpose.

So, no, I don't think that that is a valid point... I was "always
Windows" and I switched whole heartedly, and without question, and
I'm pretty sure that there are others.
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Macs are niche machines....
loupgarous 17th Mar 2010
...and if you wish to call that niche "the premium spectrum of the market," you're entitled to your opinion.

The rest of us will continue using PCs, which have NO compatibility issues in business, which are cost-efficient compared to Macs with the same hardware, and which come with the best OS on the market now. My humble opinion.

Now, going back to Jason's idea, I think Apple might be tempted to go with ARMs in hopes of carving out a market share which is isolated from Intel and possibly Microsoft at the hardware level (but, then, wouldn't they be tempted to move away from USB and other standards that encourage interoperability between platforms - hmmmmm).

It would be a bold move but not necessarily a wise one, unless Apple is prepared to take the hit as IT managers who are at least somewhat comfortable with iMacs skitter back to xxx86-based platforms which they KNOW will be a defensible decision.

But a lot depends on whether or not Apple sees this pitfall and decides to limit their use of ARM chips to their niche platforms and keep their business-grade machines in a trusted hardware platform.

Of course, they could elect to market a line of PCs that use ARMs for their wealthier customers, then begin a campaign of selling how much faster and more powerful these machines are (using a variant of the "watch movies while you're on the phone" campaign for iPhone/AT&T. That might entice some IT managers and other corporate decision-makers to take the plunge. We'll see.
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RE: Was Intel's x86 the
anono 6th May 2011
@loupgarous
"...and if you wish to call that niche "the premium spectrum of the market," you're entitled to your opinion."
I think I read somewhere a year or so ago that Macs had 90% of the market over $1000. I'm pretty sure it was for laptops, but not sure exactly. If I remember correctly, then it's more than just an opinion. The other thing is Macs don't compete for the low end market so no surprises that they don't dominate it. Although it would be interesting to see what happens if Apple went below their price range.
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It's not ARM per se that matters, ...
financegozu 15th Mar 2010
it's the whole OS stack: All those Core services (core audio, core video, ...) give the whole OS a structure that fits nicely to specialized processors. Already today, CoreGraphics is using the GPU heavily, thereby offloading processing needs to speacialized (and therefore more efficient) hardware. Instead of more general purpose ARM cores, I see mor specialized processors. That's where an acquisition of PA Semi makes sense.
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I agree with the first two posters who replied
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 15th Mar 2010
and think that while ARM is certainly the future of their mobile device platforms, I would be hard press at the current time to say that they would try to migrate the iMac and MacBook lineups onto ARM. As the second poster said, it would be proverbial suicide, barring any major developments in power consumption of the processors and battery technology.

I think that it is possible that we may see some more appliance based products coming from Apple in the future that could most certainly run onto of the ARM architecture, perhaps a rehash of Apple TV or something like that or something we have yet to see.
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Firstly, Intel continues to hold a license to create an ARM chip. It doesn't need to "buy an asset".

Secondly, CPU architecture as "the platform" is 1960's thinking. Whether x86 or ARM or PowerPC, there is no longer any technical reason to limit a computer's processing capability in that way.

A quad-core chip with an ARM core, a GPU core, and a couple x86 cores could theoretically run anything and dynamically adapt to the processing requirements.

If Apple wants to lock itself into oddball hardware again, so be it. Everyone should remember that Apple is about Apple; non-standard ports, connectors, and peripherals designed to generate revenue streams and lock users in have always been a staple of how Apple treats its customers.

Maybe they think Macs should be like iPhones too: Where you can only buy software for them through iTunes. That would really be interesting...
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do wha?
medezark@... 15th Mar 2010
Something similar to the Transmeta technology would be more appropriate than the frankenstein monstrosity you propose.

I'd hate to be the one to attempt to use a heterogenous multi-core processor in a production environment!
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ZDNet is nothing but shallow...
3dtodd 15th Mar 2010
ZDNet is so clearly a lapdog for Windows, that I gave up on taking them seriously ages ago. They are the Fox News of computer-related blogs.
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yet here you are.
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 15th Mar 2010
nt.
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Speaking of shallow commentary...
vulpine@... 15th Mar 2010
"Maybe they think Macs should be like iPhones too: Where you can
only buy software for them through iTunes. That would really be
interesting..."


Why not? One of the most prevalent methods of injecting malware into
a PC today is through software--either hacked versions of expensive
apps offered at 'too-good-to-be-true' prices or through maliciously-
malformed Java or Flash or image files that have little or no analysis
done to them before arriving on your machine. By forcing almost
everything through a central server system, the apps can be verified
and vetted, eliminating at least one of those paths and offering yet
better security over what OS X already provides. (I'm speaking
functional security here, not that 'pwn-to-own' stuff that almost never
gets into the wild against the Mac.)

So by using a Vetting system to verify the quality and security of the
applications, it's very possible that Apple's future computers could be
everything to everybody--except hobbyists.
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Only only Apple would be...
PollyProteus 15th Mar 2010
...allowed to do that.

If Microsoft were to try and do that, all legal hell would break loose.
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That's what happens when your at 90%
still not nice 15th Mar 2010
If Microsoft were to try and do that, all legal hell would break loose.

If the market wasn't so skewed in their direction, that might ease off a bit...
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RE: Was Intel's x86 the
anono 6th May 2011
@vulpine@...
"If Microsoft were to try and do that, all legal hell would break loose."
Microsoft's monopoly has definitely prevented it from doing somethings that would benefit consumers and it shows.
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Spidermonkey Stinkeroo
yobtaf 15th Mar 2010
Strictly on the cob.
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iPhone OS into Mac OSX
jznoy-dallas 15th Mar 2010
What they need to do is port the iPhone OS into Mac OSX (similar to MSFT's XP into 7) so that the millions of apps can extend into the Mac OS for further usage and purchasing power. Maybe port into AppleTV as well.
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And,
medezark@... 15th Mar 2010
So many of the available apps on the IPod store are

A: Available as FLASH counterparts for the MAC,
B: Little more than packaged FAQ or other text files, or packages of images for wallpaper,
C: Are irrelevant to the desktop environment,
D: Add "missinng" functionality to the IPod that already exists on the mac

That I believe if you REMOVE those applications, and also pare down the "duplicate" apps, you'll find the disparity in applications quite manageable.

For example - ILevel. Completely purposeless on a Desktop machine, or a machine without an accelerometer.
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Two things -
nix_hed 15th Mar 2010
1) You can already use the AppleTV frameworks with Mac OS X. All you
need is a disk image of an AppleTV hard drive for the OS.

2) iApps and full desktop apps are different animals.
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there's an ARM version of Windows available by then. Mac share grew when it could run Windows VMs well enough...
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RE: Was Intel's x86 the
anono 6th May 2011
@Johnny Vegas
While it definitely grew after it could run Windows, I'm pretty sure it was growing before then too.
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Chips, amounts and numbers
Economister 15th Mar 2010
Interesting and thought provoking blog.

Please allow me to correct your English a bit:

Potato ships are sold in amounts but computer chips are sold in numbers. "Amount of chips" and "amount of people" is not correct English. It should be "number of chips" and "number of people"

This is unfortunately an all too common mistake.
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Amount vs. number...
Snowy_River 15th Mar 2010
Okay, I know that this is off topic, but I can't stay away from this one...

While one can talk about the number of potato chips, it is, in fact, correct
to say that potato chips are sold based on the amount, not the number.
That is to say, the measure used in selling potato chips is the amount
that the potato chips weigh, not the quantity of individual chips that are
in the bag. So, in fact, the amount of chips is correct.
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Hard to say.
CobraA1 15th Mar 2010
Hard to say. It really depends on whether ARM really
takes off or not.

It wouldn't be the first time Apple has shipped an OS for
a RISC platform. I can see them changing again if they
wanted to.
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Contributr
Apple and ARM
davidmorgenstern 15th Mar 2010
Dude: With all respect, ARM was kinda first made and used
by Apple. Acorn started the core and then the ARM
consortium was formed by Apple, Acorn and VLSI
Technology. I think the first real ARM chip, the 610 was used
in the Newton. So, Apple has both history and experience
with the platform.
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Contributr
They most certainly do.
jperlow 15th Mar 2010
I noted it in my "Star Trek" iPad article earlier.

I also wouldn't put it past Apple to purchase ARM holdings itself.
Or, if Apple buys Arm, Google will buy MIPS.
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Apple were latecomers to the ARM
JohnOfStony Updated - 15th Mar 2010
Re David Morgenstern's post "Apple and ARM":
Acorn was the sole designer of the original ARM chip which was intially manufactured in the UK and was producing ARM based desktop computers before the ARM consortium was formed. These computers were the fastest desktop machines in the world at the time. I know because in 1986-7 I worked for Acorn alongside the original designers of the ARM which originally was an acronym for Acorn RISC Machine. Also, don't forget DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) who were also a major player and produced the StrongARM combining the power efficiency of ARM with the ultra high speed of their Alpha (?) processor.
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Apricot
john_gillespie@... 22nd Mar 2010
I had an Apricot desktop with an ARM back in the late 80's. Very fast for
the time but it had no mouse. You moved the cursor with keys on the
keyboard.
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RE: Was Intel's x86 the
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