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Understanding Marin County's $30 million ERP failure

By | September 2, 2010, 2:29pm PDT

Summary: Marin County voted to stop an ongoing SAP project, implicitly accepting that it wasted over $30 million on software and related implementation services from Deloitte Consulting.

The Board of Supervisors in California’s Marin County voted to stop an ongoing SAP project and seek a replacement solution, implicitly accepting that it wasted over $30 million on software and related implementation services from Deloitte Consulting.

The dramatic decision to replace SAP comes after relations between Marin and Deloitte Consulting, the implementation consultant on this project, deteriorated to the breaking point. Marin filed a lawsuit against Deloitte “seeking actual and compensatory damages of at least $30 million, along with unspecified punitive and, or exemplary damages and interest.” Deloitte has countersued Marin for approximately $550,000 in unpaid fees and late charges.

Related: Marin County sues Deloitte: Alleges fraud on SAP project

The Contra Costa Times described the situation:

After spending more than $30 million on a fancy computer system that never worked well, top Civic Center officials have concluded the program should be scrapped as soon as a more efficient system can be phased in.

The Marin Independent Journal offered historical context:

The Board of Supervisors bought the SAP system in 2005, then paid mounting consultant bills as staff grappled with a fiscal nightmare in which the program could not produce basic financial reports. SAP never performed as promised, bobbling the payroll, accounts receivable and other routine financial functions. A grand jury probe concluded it cost taxpayers $28.6 million as of April 2009

Computer World brought in SAP’s perspective:

SAP “strongly believes in the value and performance of its software in use in Marin County,” said spokesman Andy Kendzie. “Our software works exactly as it should, and any issues in this implementation in no way reflect on SAP. Our software is installed and functioning perfectly in tens of thousands of public sector agencies, including dozens in California.”

Marin’s decision to jettison SAP and start over with new software is based on an analysis performed by Phoenix Business Consulting, a firm that Marin hired at a cost ”not to exceed $50,000.” The statement of work is relatively vague and uninformative:

To review the SAP program currently implemented at the County of Marin and analyze whether it meets the needs of the County, including whether it was properly implemented by Deloitte. Review what additional costs and efforts are necessary for SAP to properly function to meet the needs of the County Departments. Review what efforts were taken to fix the SAP problems which occurred post-implementation.

STRATEGIC ANALYSIS

This situation offers a clear example of how mismatched expectations can drive poor communication and lead to complete failure. To help understand what really went wrong, here is a brief description of each party’s role in contributing to this situation:

Marin role. In my opinion, having reviewed substantial documentation, Marin’s decision to replace SAP seems intended primarily to strengthen its lawsuit position and push all accountability away from itself. Marin’s position is extreme and not credible.

Marin’s apparent lack of organizational and governance maturity, and its inability to absorb business transformation changes associated with this implementation, seem to be a basic driver underlying this failure.

A summary status report compiled by Marin’s Information Services & Technology Department acknowledges significant lessons learned on this project that it plans to apply on a future ERP implementation:

At this stage, staff is recommending that we look at other system options and recommend the following approach:

  1. An incremental, phased approach to the replacement of SAP, rather than the “big bang” approach that was intentionally followed in the SAP implementation, as was advised by the outside consultants;
  2. IST involvement up front to guide the steering committee of employees from key departments in recommending a system and leading its implementation;
  3. Less reliance on outside consultants and more on County staff, who have a greater, vested interest in the outcome and success of the implementation; and
  4. Routine communication with employees, the public and Board of Supervisors in the form of regular status reports and meetings, including meetings with an oversight subcommittee of the Board for the project.

A town supervisor also emphasized the importance of lessons learned during a meeting in which the Board voted to stop the project (video).

Deloitte role. Most emphatically, I believe Deloitte shares equal, or perhaps even greater, culpability in creating this situation. Deloitte’s posturing and unwillingness to accept even partial responsibility for the failure appears inconsistent with the facts. Deloitte seems focused on compensation arising from the implementation process itself, without regard to whether the client achieved successful results or outcomes.

Deloitte’s position and actions stand in stark contrast to these customer-centric words from its website:

For some, the path to value is a steady march. For others, it unfolds through bursts of innovation. But for the best of the best, it’s always both. Disciplined improvement initiatives, marked by powerful leaps and breakthroughs.

SAP role. Neither Marin nor Deloitte have suggested that SAP software contributed in any way to the failure. However, a complete analysis must consider the role of SAP in setting client expectations regarding demands imposed by the implementation process.

The extent to which software vendors and integrators should take responsibility for decisions that buyers make during the purchasing process is a difficult question. As I have written, the solution lies in three areas:

  1. Enterprise customers should be more careful assessing their own capabilities before undertaking any complicated organizational change initiatives, including implementing ERP systems.
  2. Systems integrators and consulting firms must be more straightforward in explaining pitfalls and success requirements to potential clients. Some consultants paint an overly positive picture during the sales process; such nonsense has to stop.
  3. Software vendors should tie a greater percentage of sales compensation to ultimate customer satisfaction.

I have referred to relationships among enterprise customers, software vendors, and system integrators as constituting a “Devil’s Triangle.”

For more information on the Devil’s Triangle see:

Exploring the Devil’s Triangle
The IT failures blame game (part 1)
The IT failures blame game (part 2)
‘Pain chains’ and the IT Devil’s Triangle

Understanding the numbers. The county’s decision to throw away its $30 million investment bears scrutiny, especially during this period of budget cuts and economic difficulty.

To understand more, I spoke at length with Mark F. O’Connor, CEO and co-founder of Monadnock Research, which offers advice to enterprise customers on working with services firms. In an excellent analytic writeup, Mark says:

Marin may want to step back and take a closer look at the findings of the report it is using to support that conclusion…Analysis of those findings, however, appears to offer clues into apparent unrealistic expectations similar to what got Marin into its current predicament.

I asked Mark to elaborate this view:

Opponents to the SAP-based system implemented at Marin County are clearly aligned around getting rid of it as quickly as possible. But it appears the County may never have accepted responsibility for making it work in the first place. In fact, my reading of the agreement with Deloitte seems to indicate the County was trying to cede its responsibilities to Deloitte.

Responsibility without authority, however, always yields outcomes similar to what we see here in complex systems projects. There are literally thousands of important decisions that need be made by client staff during an implementation—while they continue to do their day jobs. I would caution against pre-deciding what will happen with SAP at this point, before the County’s alternatives are fully vetted. While there is political consensus to move off SAP, there are workflow and human factors to consider, and a lack of consensus across all departments as to whether they should initiate another disruptive systems project so soon.

Additionally, the financial justification that appeared persuasive to the Supervisors was remarkable to me only in its lack of detail. The County needs to ensure that it doesn’t make decisions to improve its position in the Deloitte lawsuit at the expense of its financial interests and ability to effectively provide services to Marin County residents.

I would hope Marin’s analysis and assessment of the various alternatives includes addressing these twelve key questions:

  1. What are the estimated expenses for hard and soft dollar costs associated with preparing the five plans the Board of Supervisors just authorized?
  2. What is the estimated cost for managing the alternative assessment, selection, and implementation process?
  3. What are the estimated application acquisition costs for the various scenarios?
  4. What are the estimated costs for business process redesign?
  5. What are the estimates for implementation costs for the various alternatives?
  6. How many hours are being assumed for each?
  7. What hourly rates for consultants are the implementation assumptions based on?
  8. What are the estimated costs for migration and conversion in each of the alternatives?
  9. If a best-of-breed solution is chosen, what are the expenses for software infrastructure and services associated with application integration at a level similar to what would be present in an integrated application suite?
  10. What are the application maintenance and support expense estimates?
  11. What are the training costs for the various alternatives?
  12. What are the internal staffing costs for the alternatives during the project for the SAP environment and for transition scenarios with risks and probabilities assigned for the different concurrent environment scenarios?

The Marin Information Systems and Technology group appears to have concluded that fixing the Deloitte-installed SAP application will cost nearly 25 percent more over a ten-year period than buying, modifying, implementing, and migrating data over to a new system in a protracted multi-phase project, during which time they would continue to operate the SAP environment concurrently, until going live on the respective new system modules. That conclusion seems implausible to me

My take. No good comes from situations like this. Marin appears to have wasted $30 million dollars; Deloitte faces a lawsuit and bad press; and SAP’s brand and reputation will suffer even though no one blames the software.

Note to software vendors and system integrators: A substantial number of your customers, especially those who are smaller, only purchase ERP once in many years; these folks require more education than you typically provide during the selling process. Situations like this make clear that something is deeply wrong with your approach to sales and consulting.

Note to enterprise buyers: There is no escaping that you are ultimately responsible for the success or failure of your project. That said, when you hire services vendors be sure the contract includes provisions that connect cost and time to achieving successful results. If your vendors don’t have skin in the game, then go elsewhere.

I could add much more to the list of suggestions, but that would require a book-length blog post.

Image from iStockPhoto. Thanks to Francine McKenna for assistance in preparing this report.

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Topics

Michael Krigsman is a recognized authority on the causes and prevention of IT failures.

Disclosure

Michael Krigsman

Michael Krigsman writes and speaks about technology in a manner that most observers consider to be fair and balanced. Michael believes that writing about IT failures, which often have complex causes, creates a unique obligation to be reasonable and accurate in both reporting and analysis.

Michael maintains active personal and professional relationships with enterprise technology buyers, vendors, analyst firms (or individual analysts), consultants, and system integrators. As CEO of Asuret, Michael sells and delivers paid services to members of these same groups.

Vendors regularly reimburse Michael's out-of-pocket travel expenses to attend industry conferences and events. Conference organizers frequently waive entry fees when Michael attends industry events. Michael often speaks at industry conferences and events.

He is a member of the Enterprise Irregulars, a loose association of consultants, investors, industry representatives, analysts, and users of enterprise software.

For daily updates on Michael's activities, follow him on Twitter.

Biography

Michael Krigsman

Michael Krigsman is CEO of Asuret, Inc., a consulting company dedicated to reducing technology implementation failures. Asuret's suite of software tools improve the success rate of enterprise software deployments by quantifying and measuring governance issues that cause most project failures. Michael led the research effort underlying Asuret's model of collective intelligence and its practical application to reducing IT failures in consulting environments. He is a recognized authority on the causes and prevention of IT failures and is frequently quoted in the press on IT project and related CIO issues. He is considered an enterprise software industry "influencer" and provides advice to technology buyers, vendors, and services firms.

Previously, Michael served as CEO of Cambridge Publications, which develops tools and processes for software implementations and related business practice automation projects. Michael has been involved with hundreds of software development projects, for companies ranging from small startups to Fortune 500 organizations. Michael graduated with an M.B.A. from Boston University and a B.A. from Bard College. He is a Board member of the America's Cup Hall of Fame and the Herreshoff Marine Museum in Bristol, RI.

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RE: Understanding Marin County's $30 million ERP failure
bvsyam 30th Aug
I being part of one of the troubled ERP implementation organisation, can appreciate the problems associated withit. First of All it is the thinking of customer..that some big names like SAP, JDEdwards make big difference. Practically in most of the cases the decision making is crucial from software selection to solutions to the different issues raised during implementaion of project. Most of the public sevants dont have either time or dare to take decisions. In some cases eventhough decision were taken they can not have wisdom to visualise its impact in terms of ERP implemenation.
There will be fault from consultants , they promise moon and give dust. Whatever You ask a consulting firm/ sales executive they say it is possible. Later ifs and buts starts and nagging starts.

Ultimately what is there in SAP or any other ERP package is standard. The customer must have the wisdom not passion to select the software for implementation.
bvs prasad
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Poor Governance in the Extreme
Steve Romero 2nd Sep 2010
Another great post Michael. But I wish the object of the failure was something other than an ERP system. I fear many folks responsible for deploying technology at their enterprises won't pay this event much notice because they believe these types of failures only occur with big ERP implementations. There are SO many lessons to be learned here and there is SO much good advice that applies to technology endeavors of all shapes and sizes. Anyone who cares about realizing value from their technology investments should read this post.

Steve Romero, IT Governance Evangelist
http://community.ca.com/blogs/theitgovernanceevangelist/
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Blame all around
philsimonsystems 2nd Sep 2010
Good post, Michael. It just goes to show that everyone's hands are dirty on these types of things. For one organization to absolve itself completely from blame merely represents legal posturing. Those in the know won't buy into this.

I find it interesting that SAP won't be the system at Marin. I'd argue that Marin could have chosen another ERP and, absent the proper governance measures that you and Mark describe, the outcome would have been the same.
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Contributr
Phil, I completely that these types of failure are almost always independent of specific software package. Without governance, monitoring of the services provider, and intelligent commitment from the internal organization, the project is often doomed.
@philsimonsystems
Have to agree.
I've been doing these for several years and unless the client embeds the business decision makers into the process the outcome is likely to be just like Marin's.
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Very good article and may be worth a follow-up article or a series based on this one. ERP is a difficult solution to implement and the SAP system is not for the faint of heart. This article covered a lot of the key points to consider and it is worth looking at the total lifecycle cost including on-going operational and support/upgrade costs. The $30M sunk cost plus additional transition costs to a new system should demand further investigation to see what could be done to salvage a base SAP system. Who is looking at the waste of tax payer dollars as even the consultants should have recommended a more phased in approach of the more difficult functions as the business processes and responsibilities did not seem to be clear in this case.
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Another SAP/Deloitte failure... what's new?
wmmonroe@... Updated - 3rd Sep 2010
The $30 million in sunk costs has to be weighed against the unknowable millions that could have been lost had they continued to pursue this project, which seems to have been irretrievably broken. In that respect maybe their choice to kill it was most appropriate.

The only exception I would take to your post is the idea that "SAPs brand and reputation will suffer even though no one blames the software." The reason I disagree with this idea is because the landscape is littered with the bones of failed SAP projects and they continue to hold the largest market share. They've consistently been able to defend their high rate of failure on the unwillingness of clients to follow the rules for implementation. And, for better or worse, they're usually correct.

As to Deloitte's culpability, Project Portfolio Excellence Truth #20 sums it up: The extent to which management allows itself to be misled by vendors and consultants is their own fault.

Bill Monroe, Project Portfolio Excellence
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is no higher than any other ERP vendor. 99% of all ERP implementation failures fall squarely on the company that bought the software or the consulting firm they paid to manage the implementation. Implementing an ERP system is a long, difficult and largely thankless task. When done well, it pays for itself quickly. When done poorly, it can bankrupt a company. I have yet to see a scenario where the software itself, whether it be SAP, BAAN, PeopleSoft, JD Edwards, MS Dynamics or a hundred other ERP systems out there, was the reason an implementation failed. I've always felt that all ERP vendors should provide certification paths which at least help to demonstrate proficiency in implemeting their software. It's one thing to be able to support a software package that's already up and running, but another thing entirely to get it up and running, configured and get data imported from legacy systems so that the system is actually useful from day 1 of go-live. If SAP, and all ERP vendors for that matter, bear responsibility in failed implementations this would be it.
@jasonp@...

Too many times the responsibility is charged to the customer.
If the Software vendor sells a product very sophisticated (see too much complicated), I think the responsibility must be shared.
@smarta@...
I can't agree.
SAP does offer several differnt consulting groups and has a company rep built into these projects.
The decision comes down to the customer on what consulting firm to utilize and their use of their SAP representative.
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@jasonp@... " 99% of all ERP implementation failures fall squarely on the company that bought the software or the consulting firm they paid to manage the implementation."

That is way to high of a figure. Especally when you consider that many smaller systems it is the company itself who are the consultants. It is funny I learned this in college but rarely see it practice because of the cost and people don't know what they want untill they see it. One should map out the whole process before the coding starts for any database. Yet when I looked at ERP systems for a medium size corporation no sales people seem to want to give me their detail process maps. I have seen when the requirments are properly mapped out and good their is good project managment one saves a lot of headachs. Even then I would not always say the projects are always successful.
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Too high?
jasonp@... 7th Sep 2010
If anything, 99% is too low but I try to avoid any claims of 100%. I have yet to see an ERP failure that was directly attributable to the ERP software. I've spoken with several other implementation specialists and none of them have either. From my experience, those failures are fairly equally divided between the implementation vendor and the customer. There are some vendors who should really get out of the implementation business altogether...one in the New England area in particular I've advised customers against doing business with many times.
@wmmonroe@... I have no experience from the viewpoint of someone who recieves SAP output. From the viewpoint of one who inputs to a SAP system; I have never seen a more user antagonstic piec of software
@annnon You are so correct. SAP is the most user antagonistic piece of ERP software... except for all the other ERP software suites.
@wmmonroe@... in other words, "never give a sucker an even break". customers are bozos, service companies are either there to help the bozo or just make a fast buck. this strikes me as the latter.
Michael, it's an interesting article of what went wrong at a high level but it's not clear what specifically isn't working and why. We all know that SAP is proven, state of the art software, and that it works when properly configured. So the root cause of the problem must be that the software is either not properly configured or that Marin County didn?t understand the implications of the configuration decisions and how the software would work based upon these decisions. In either case, the responsibility clearly rests with Deloitte and the County.

Rather than dump a $30 million investment, my recommendation would be for the ?Devil?s Triangle? players (SAP, Deloitte and the County) to work together to figure out exactly what isn?t working and fix it. Start from the beginning and review each configuration decision. Is it correct? If not fix it. If it is properly configured, does the County understand how the system will work based on this configuration. Are changes in workflow and processes required and are the users properly trained on these new processes?

SAP and Deloitte should agree to go through this process at costs and the County should agree to pay these costs, since it is probably that these costs will be lower than starting over. It?s not that hard to determine the vendors? costs, which would include salaries of the people assigned and eligible travel expenses (based upon County policies). Most likely there are bad relationships between the people who have worked on this project for the past 5 years, so it?s also a good idea to address this problem.

Dumping SAP is a bad idea, since any alternative solution will cost the County an additional $30+ million at a minimum and be subject to the same problems. Moreover, there will be a whole new learning curve to surmount and the users will need to be trained on a new look and feel, a different workflow and new/different processes. Unless the County wins its lawsuit against Deloitte, which sounds questionable, the alternative proposed of working together to resolve the problems will be less costly and take less time. I would be amazed if the current problems couldn?t be resolved in less than a year if all parties work together as a team.
@bcrowell5241 - proven -state of the art!!! - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@steve@... yeah, those two descriptors gave me pause as well. I won't say that SAP isn't proven or state of the art compared to it's competitors but I'd never lead with the idea that SAP is either in general terms.
@steve@...
Exactly...especially when ABAP is such a poorly designed language....that's a "tell all". SAP has just "bulldozed" the industry with a lot of "bull".
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@steve@... Funny my 3.5 billion dollar gross sales company implemented SAP in 1999, was just 3 month late (Feb go-live vs. May), but was within budget tolerance. Since then we have SCM, BW, CRM, BOBJ and HR systems. All integrate and work just fine. In fact integration is SAP?s key selling point. So to blame the software is easy, and usually the lame way out. I usually find comments from the above and mssimms below are people that have failed to learn or know other software and are scared of SAP?s size or could/did not grasp SAPS learning curve. However, once grasped other software appears to be immature. The interesting thing once you learn one SAP package, all of the other ERP packages in the suite just fit. We run our IT show (Basis through functional) with ~80 people. And support 24X7 worldwide implementations, 3500 employees worldwide and currently bringing up new offices/distribution centers every 3 months. We looked at 4 other vendors all failed in comparison to SAP?s R&D, and the industry size. Are they perfect ? now that is funny. Are they state of the Art? no and thank goodness. State of the art is usually something that looks good fails to meet your needs can?t be configured and the company will be bought or chapter 11. Of the 4 other vendors, we looked at the two higher candidates are now no longer or were absorbed with someone else. My observations are the consultants. They off shore to save money and that leads to mistakes. Off shoring will lower quality of work by a certain degree. Unless it is text book, or they can plug into the "new dehli network" no thought or does not require ANY business acumen, then yes off shore does work because of the time differential and the brute force of doing something, like and upgrade. The failure comes in three areas with consultants from my experience on three major project ? ERP, SCM, BW and a very complicated IP implementation. 1) the consultants are young and out of school are sold as?experts? with knowledge in the tool and industry. They are Green as a new gourd telling seasoned people what to do 2) off shore which I mentioned above and they hit the sweat shops to pull in and provide local ?experts?. 3) if your project deviates from white papers or basic/text book installations (name a business that doesn?t have something special) then you are screwed. I have seen it time and time again. These are not boutique consultants either these are Delloites, Accenture?s (we called them Accidenture after that project ), PWC?s of the world. Management likes them because when you throw that much money around it?s easy to blame them and move on. Sorry I have 3 major 10 Million + projects I have been part of and watched this from the inside. Once the employee?s learned the software, the ?consultant?s? were nothing more than cheap contractors at $180/hr. All of this from a private company, I can only imagine the hell a Government ? let alone a CA office ? can be like, especially the current box of cra@p we have in office. So yeah agree with the above, the consultants are probably the bigger blame and being a Gov't office it's probably just as responsible.
@bcrowell5241 seems like a good idea, but I can't see Marin accepting it. It is very obvious they lost all confidence in Deloitte and it will be very hard for them to continue to pay a consultant they have no confidence in. What might be a better solution would be to keep the software and hire a new consultant company to fix the problems they are having. It's probably cheaper than scrapping their current set up.
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Excellent point
archangel999 3rd Sep 2010
@bcrowell5241 There's also Marin's obligation to mitigate damages as effectively as possible (especially given their undoubted culpability in this fiasco) - it's in all parties interests to just make things right at no additional cost rather than go through a lawsuit and another huge monster of a project.
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@bcrowell5241 good concept, but they wont do it, its too logical, and this is a government, and we all know how logical governments are. but I do agree, what you suggest is the proper way to resolve the issue, for all parties involved.
@bcrowell5241:"proven and state of the art".. Hahahahahaha guffaw guffaw LOL! That really cracked me up.

I have to admit, you have a talent for making people laugh.

SAP is a dinosaur.
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$30M open source platform
scott1329 3rd Sep 2010
Why can't someone spend $30M (and whatever else has been wasted) and develop an open source platform for this kind of thing? The platform would be free for all government agencies to use, and be standardized. Why does tax money have to go down the black hole of SAP + consultants? If this open-source platform had been built a decade ago, think of all the money that would be saved by now.
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RE: Understanding Marin County's $30 million ERP failure
paul.nicolette@... Updated - 3rd Sep 2010
@scott1329 Have you Googled "open source ERP"? The hard part isn't so much building the product as getting hundreds or thousands of people to willingly feel incompetent while they discard hard-won skills and learn new ones. If they don't know what's in it for them (and it better be helpful), or they don't have good preparation and support through the pain, don't bother.
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Assuming facts not in evidence
archangel999 3rd Sep 2010
@scott1329 The assumption that an "open source platform" attempt could ever amount to anything worthwhile or evenly generally usable is a HUGE and wildly naive assumption.
@scott1329
@scott1329
an open source (ie:custom) solution would have a long steep path to climb and likely find itself replaceable only, not upgradeable.

ouch
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@scott1329,

Kuali
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Open Platform
Jim from Indy Updated - 3rd Sep 2010
@scott1329, I think the notion that someone like the Federal Government might put together a single provider for any and all state and local governments to use (at a cost, of course...) would be an excellent idea. Making it open source is intriguing, but making it openly available to all appropriate comers is more important. There are security issues with open source application code that are solveable, but why reinvent the wheel? Just use SAP or one of the others. I think it's a grand idea. Too bad it's never gonna happen. Our government can't even implement a new FBI database or Air Traffic Control system for the simple reason that buying one vendor's product shuts out others, and therefore becomes lawsuit fodder (and corruption fodder.)
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Good point!
maxtheitpro 3rd Sep 2010
@scott1329
Surely some open source ERP systems like ERP5, OpenERP, Adiempiere, Compiere, Open Bravo et al could've been used for Marin County, no??
They should have given OpenERP a look...it keeps getting better & better. Plus it's easy to add features thanks to its clean Python code base.

- Max "The IT Pro"
http://MaxTheITpro.com
@maxtheitpro I'm not antagonistic to Open Source but generally when an open source proponent says better & better, what they mean is closer and closer to being usable. Too often those open source projects getting better and better are strictly unusable to people without an MSCS or a keen love for (python, perl, ruby, java, c, $language_of_the_month).
Success brings glory, failure leaves orphans . . .
SAP is a peice of old crap and anyone that is in the know understands that.
@steve@... and Oracle is a wondrous, new and flawless system. Anyone in the know understands that they are all equally horrible and equally great.
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@steve@... spoken like someone who doesn't.
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There is also politics at work here.
I've seen the above problem time and again in California State agencies. The Unknowing don't know what they really want, but are willing to be Overcharged by somebody who is willing to sell them Something. When it doesn't work perfectly, the Unknowing point fingers and whine. It's a sorry mess, because NOBODY has skin in the game.
I dont know how the government of California is but i worked for the state of ohio for 8 years and the IT people were about 12 grades below what they were classifide at and they were paying Microsoft consulting 160.00 hour to teach us but we knew more than they did.
I worked in privite industry first for 20 years. I know the difference now between govenment employees and "real" IT employees
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You can't fix stupid with software.
chriswilkins@... 3rd Sep 2010
What really happened here? Management decided to make a system change. Possibly a completely unnecessary change for the sake of change itself to help justify their worth to the organization. At some point the people responsible for the technical specifics of implementing that change decided it was too risky, probably said as much and outsourced to consultants to avoid blame when the project failed. Because consultants know how to do everything, right? The consulting sales rep made a lot of promises and the consultants responsible for bringing them to reality couldn't turn technical water into wine. 5 years and $30 mil later, you have a turd of a system and the best option is starting over. Who's to blame? The County management team who didn't listen to the technical people from the beginning, because it wasn't what they wanted to hear.
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The quote from Marin's IST group is telling. It's crystal clear that their noses are out of joint because Marin decided to implement SAP using outside labor rather than Marin's own IS resources. Clearly, their IST group had no skin in the game, and I would be very surpised if the IST group's passive aggressive attitude didn't contribute mightily to the failure.

Having said that, I find the notion of a "big-bang" implementation of any large-scale system to be absolutely silly. It contributes to the enormous cost of these projects, and is the primary cause of failure. With no "milestones" with real customer value deliverables, cost, and the abiity to "stop now", the stage is set for a high probability of failure. Marin is hardly the first, or even among the costliest SAP install failures out there, and they won't be the last.

SAP preaches that businesses must alter their practices to conform to the way SAP operates (and that is, of course, the correct way to operate an enterprise...) or risk failure. I say, well then, alter the practices, teach and learn them, and THEN buy SAP. That hardly seems even an unexpected planning tenet, let alone a startling one. Sadly, SAP cannot even propose such a plan because 1)It would at least delay the SAP purchase, and 2)It would risk the customer's deciding that having implemented the "correct" business processes, it no longer needs SAP to manage them....

What does suprise me is that Deloitte and its ilk do not propose such a plan. I guess they'd risk having SAP exclude them from future sales opportunities if they did.
@Jim from Indy I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the IST group and their role. This is all too often the case in government, profit and non-profit. The thing that is hard for the staff to realize is that the purpose of consultants is to implement these kind of systems that take a) focus and b) experience. The IST people have a hundred other things going on and being part of several previous deployments isn't their strong suit. That's the benefit the consultants bring. It's a shame that egos get bent out of shape on something like that.
I was at a large telco at the end of the 90's and a 2 person web team produced HR apps that blew SAP out of the water....for the price of their 2 salaries as opposed to the millions being wasted on SAP.

FYI...this was the opinion of the executives in the company....not just me...

SAP sells their "system" and then charges exorbitant prices for their consultants to keep it *ahem* "running".

Often a higher price tag does NOT equal a better product.
@ColdFusion_z HR apps? Awesome! Did they also have CRM? supply chain management? financial management? product lifecycle management? HR (or HCM) is a module within SAP. Your 2 person HR app was probably great but it's like saying that you made a web page that is way better than apache or IIS. The two aren't even comparable, no matter what an executive says.
@hawks5999

Yes...HR apps....as in allowing for major corporate hierarchy restructuring during a massive merger....not who's out sick today.

SAP data was not even real-time...you couldn't even tell who worked for who as the data was only updated monthly.

I appreciate that SAP as a whole has many other modules, but the point is that with a little creative thinking, 2 people can out perform a behemoth like SAP.

That tells me one thing....SAP is too big, bloated, and over-priced.

If it can be done with one module, it can be done with them all. It's not about comparing SAP as a whole....it's about how bad they did that one module...as evidence that the whole is flawed.

Just because something is "enterprise level" doesn't mean it has to cost 10 times more. That kind of thinking leads you to mistakes that cost 10 times as much.

BTW...the good old analogy of apples vs oranges works just fine...."web pages that is better than apache or IIS"...go watch Star Wars and spin your beanie propeller wink
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That has got to be the funniest thing I've read in years. If it were true, then every single company that has spent millions of dollars implemting SAP should have their entire management team fired for spending so much money when they could have just gone out and hired two employees to manage their entire ERP function. I suppose Proctor and Gamble could run their entire corporate infrastructure with 2 employees and an Excel spreadsheet, eh? Dude, it's time to take your meds...your hallucinations are taking over.
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@hawks5999 - Well said and thank you.
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@ColdFusion_z: you know the interesting thing is someone would liable to buy that story, and fail miserably inside of 6 months. I have seen attempts at that at a "true" enterprise, and they quickly - very quickly cry uncle we give....nice try on the sell but I'm not buying. And good luck to the enterprise that tries it.
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Really nice article. I, like a few others, would like to know more specific details about what went wrong.

I work at a university that is implementing ERP. One person made the decision as to software and consultant. And, guesss what, this person overruled the committee that selected another vendor and another consultant.

We short-changed ourselves on the front-end. We bought the "basic package." The powers-that-be felt that our own staff could program and code all the features that the "enhanced" or "premium" packages already came with. The staff responsible then all quit or retired (8 people gone in four months, from the director on down).

The ERP system we have now cannot tell us simple statistics, like how many students are in school, how many students are working on biology degrees, or how many students have a minor or an area in economics. Pretty much any relevant statistics an administrator wants is nearly impossible to retrieve. Like, show me all the ZIP Codes from our students home county. Nada.

Our payroll slip, which has gotten better over three years, once only had "gross pay" and "net pay." Now, it actually shows FICA and a few other things.

The system as it is now, purges students before classes begin if they still owe money, regardless of incoming financial aid.

Those are some details we experience. I'd like to read about what Marin went through.
@constantgeographer
That is the one thing fail to realize and take into consideration when it comes to large scale ERP projects; reporting sucks. You need a secondary reporting tool that can give you the data in form and fomat you need.

They (ERP systems) hold the data and execute based on rules that are defined; by the owners. Most businesses have no clue how bad or disjointed their systems and processes really are until the do one of these. A large scale ERP tool (like SAP and others) will glaringly hi-light the weak points and it is up to the business to decide whether to re-engineer the bad/broken process.
Marin's main job as they currently see it?
Point fingers.

Someone over there needs to get a grip and develop e realistic move forward.

Till then - I'll watch and enjoy my popcorn.
The job offer emails that I delete in the most expeditious way are the ones who have in the job description something like:

"Porting an existing system and related applications to a new platform"
I being part of one of the troubled ERP implementation organisation, can appreciate the problems associated withit. First of All it is the thinking of customer..that some big names like SAP, JDEdwards make big difference. Practically in most of the cases the decision making is crucial from software selection to solutions to the different issues raised during implementaion of project. Most of the public sevants dont have either time or dare to take decisions. In some cases eventhough decision were taken they can not have wisdom to visualise its impact in terms of ERP implemenation.
There will be fault from consultants , they promise moon and give dust. Whatever You ask a consulting firm/ sales executive they say it is possible. Later ifs and buts starts and nagging starts.

Ultimately what is there in SAP or any other ERP package is standard. The customer must have the wisdom not passion to select the software for implementation.
bvs prasad

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