ie8 fix
madison

Zero Day

Ryan Naraine, Emil Protalinski and Dancho Danchev
Home / News & Blogs / Zero Day

EA Spore backlash could help end DRM

By | September 25, 2008, 5:52am PDT

Summary: Guest editorial by Oliver Day The backlash over DRM has finally started to gather serious momentum. Everyday consumers started a campaign to give the highly anticipated game Spore one-star ratings on Amazon. Thousands of Amazon users labeled Spore a poor choice because of the SecuROM DRM system that is forced onto PC users machines that [...]

Guest editorial by Oliver Day

Oliver DayThe backlash over DRM has finally started to gather serious momentum.

Everyday consumers started a campaign to give the highly anticipated game Spore one-star ratings on Amazon. Thousands of Amazon users labeled Spore a poor choice because of the SecuROM DRM system that is forced onto PC users machines that purchase the game. EA has backpedaled a bit and eased the restrictions on the number of installs per machine. They have even made a verbal (but unenforceable) promise to disable the DRM system by patch should they ever end of life the product.

But so far EA refuses to give in to consumer demand that they simply get rid of the DRM system. They hold on to the claim that DRM helps reduce piracy. Yet 30 seconds of searching on a popular torrent site shows not only Spore but a cracked copy that totally removes all DRM from the game.

EA could help end DRM

This is possibly the most insulting bit for consumers. People who are pirating the game actually enjoy more freedom in the sense that their system does not have SecuROM permanently installed onto the hard drive. In the recent class action suit the defendants publicly document how the DRM used in Spore remains installed even after the game has been removed from the users computer. SecuROM also operates at “Ring 0″ which is to say the core of the kernel layer which is clever in that it is hard to bypass the program yet dangerous because anything that goes wrong will completely destroy the users session. All of these facts are not made plain to consumers before purchasing the game. Only after they have purchased the game and start installation will they have the chance to read about the DRM system in the EULA (.pdf). Retailers almost never allow returns on software once opened which leaves consumers who don’t agree with the surprise DRM in a very bad position.

So how can EA help end DRM? They can look at what is happening around them and try to understand how miserable their own customers are with the DRM choices they are making. If recent events are any indication they will either start pirating the games or simply stop supporting EA with their purchases. EA can also look at recent history and see the reactions of consumers to retailers who renounce DRM. When online music retailers started renouncing DRM (Amazon and Apple) consumers responded very positively.

Not only that but the entire industry started to follow their lead. It is wonderful when smaller producers like Stardock announce intentions on these matters but it will take someone the size of EA to make it an industry trend.

* Oliver Day is a security researcher at StopBadware.org, a project of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University.  He has over ten years experience in web and network security, working for companies including @stake, eEye, and Rapid7. 

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

More from “Zero Day”

Topics

Game, Digital-rights Management, Electronic Arts Inc., Digital Rights Management (DRM), Digital Media, Security, Consumer Electronics, Personal Technology, Ryan Naraine

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues.

Disclosure

Ryan Naraine

The most important disclosure is of my employment with Kaspersky Lab as a member of the global research and analysis team. Kaspersky Lab is a global company specializing in anti-malware and secure content management technologies. I do not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Ryan Naraine

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues. He is currently security evangelist at Kaspersky Lab, an anti-malware company with operations around the globe. He is taking a leadership role in developing the company's online community initiative around secure content management technologies.

Prior to joining Kaspersky Lab, Ryan was Editor-at-Large/Security at eWEEK, leading the magazine's and Web site's coverage of Internet and computer security issues and managing the popular SecurityWatch blog, covering the daily threats, vulnerabilities and IT security technologies. He also covered IT security, hacker attacks and secure content management topics for Jupiter Media's internetnetnews.com.

Ryan can be reached at naraine SHIFT 2 gmail.com. For daily updates on Ryan's activities, follow him on Twitter.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
Ask a Question Start a Discussion
64
Comments
Add Your Opinion

Join the conversation!

Just In

Agree... but your post is too long
fair_rakel 21st Nov 2008
Holy crap. I agree with you, especially on the bit where if software companies just lowered their prices they would get more sales, myself included. I often buy games used just so I don't have to pay full retail price. However, your post is so lengthy and repetitive that I stopped reading about halfway through, and I think I absorbed all of the information you were trying to impart. I don't mean to be rude, but you may want to review your posts before sending them to make sure you stay the the point and not repeat your self.. it may garner more discussion on the matter.
View in thread
0 Votes
+ -
Pirate = Potential Lost Sale. Myself = Definate Lost Sale.
Bozzer 25th Sep 2008
I am not buying this game because of it, and I really wanted to as well.

I don't understand the mentality of EA. If EA consider a pirate as a lost sale why not me? What is worse, is that a pirate may not even buy the game if they couldn't get it for free. Seems to me that EA are now actually doubling their potential lost sales.
0 Votes
+ -
Some people
LiquidLearner 25th Sep 2008
have purchased the game and downloaded a pirated copy
because of the lack of DRM. It's really stupid on
EA's part. They have to pay SecuROM on every game
sold, they lose sales and increase piracy. And the
pirated version was out before the retail version. It
doesn't slow anyone down but people who buy the game.
Maybe someday they'll realize that. Don't hold your
breath though.
0 Votes
+ -
DRM = Lost Sale
laman 25th Sep 2008
I tried to avoid everything with DRM that limited the use of my purchase. Most of the time, I play with the priate copy and buy one from the store when I think I like the game and will keep playing it. Too much the trouble to buy the game, try it and argue with the shop for the refund which rarely happens. Also it is expensive to troublesome if I have to replace the media before my kids could not handle them properly. I understand that it is my repsonsibility to teach kids the right way to handle disc, but they are kids.
0 Votes
+ -
Really stupid on EA's part...
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"They have to pay SecuROM on every game
sold, they lose sales and increase piracy."

Nope, EA doesn't have to pay SecuROM on every game sold, we (as consumers) have to pay for SecuROM on every game we PAY FOR (and purchase). We are the ones getting screwed (not EA). EA just passes the cost onto the consumers.

So we get screwed (not them). So the only way to stop this, is to stop buying EA products. Start demanding "DRM-free" products. Start saying "NO TO DRM" and tell EA that we will no longer purchase any DRM products.

When EA goes back to DRM-free software, and goes back to "Fair Use" licensing (using license keys) and restricting online usage to one computer per license key, then we can go back to buying EA products again.

I don't agree with piracy, but I do believe in "Fair Use", but all we can do is begin a boycott, and speak with our wallets. If piracy increases, and purchases decrease, then suddenly EA might get the picture that DRM doesn't work. Screwing consumers doesn't work (and it's NOT good for business). Eliminate the DRM, and we'll begin to purchase your products again.

The only people that are hurt by DRM are the consumers. NOT THE PIRATES!!! DRM doesn't hurt the pirates. As you can see, the software was cracked before it was even released, and "DRM-free" versions were already floating around the internet way before the product even hit the sales floors.

So DRM is NOT the answer, and DRM does NOT stop (or even slow down) piracy. Instead the exact opposite is true, and DRM only hurts the consumers (not the pirates). Just by reading these posts... people that are NOT pirates, are even considering resorting to piracy, just to get a "DRM-free" product. That sounds sad, but very true. So it would seem that DRM only makes ordinary people resort to "piracy" just to get a DRM-free product. Sounds insane, but true. EA's "logic" has completely backfired on them.

Seems comical that you purchased the game, and then downloaded a pirated copy (that was DRM-free). It really sounds comical, but I actually thought about doing the same exact thing. I've thought about it, but the only thing that is stopping me, is that I don't want to give EA my money to support a DRM product, so I feel that the ONLY way to stop this silly nonsense is to take a stand and boycott EA's practices, and begin boycotting DRM products.

If consumers stop buying DRM goods (and boycott ALL of EA's goods and products), then companies will be forced to choose between "Fair Use" and giving customers what they will pay for, or "No FAIR Use No Money". There are better ways to restrict usage (using license keys, and only allowing one user per license key on the online servers to play the game) and that would be much more effective than DRM. I believe in Fair Use. DRM is complete garbage and doesn't work. As you can see at how quickly DRM is broken and cracked, it just shows that the ONLY people that are hurt by DRM are the consumers (not the pirates).

Consumers need a full cash refund, and EA needs to pay for this. We need a class-action lawsuit, and need full disclosure of DRM (the name, type and description of the DRM in big huge large letters on the outside of the box). So consumers can make a decision BEFORE purchasing the software (not after), and decide whether or not they want to buy a product (based on the DRM on the outside of the box). At least give consumers the right to choose.

When consumers begin boycotting clearly labeled DRM products, and begin supporting ONLY DRM-free products, then slowly the software companies will begin to understand that DRM doesn't work.

When piracy goes up instead of down, and when sales numbers go DOWN instead of up, then suddenly software companies might begin to understand that DRM doesn't work.
0 Votes
+ -
Likewise I guess.
Cayble 26th Sep 2008
Spore looked like an interesting concept for sure. It was one of those games I thought would be remembered as a bit of a classic with anew twist. One of those games that it was inevitable I would get.

Now its "would have got".

Have to take a stand at some point.
0 Votes
+ -
Yeah, but it's such a shame...
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"Have to take a stand at some point."

Yep, I completely agree. As more and more of consumers begin to take a stand against DRM, and begin to boycott products (and companies) that use DRM, then slowly we can speak with our wallets. Boycott their products, and speak with our wallets. Eventually these companies will either fold, or begin to change their ways and learn better ways to completely eliminate DRM, and go back to license keys, and only allow one user per license key to play online at a time. That's the fairest thing for consumers, plus I'm not paying for stupid DRM, and I'm not getting screwed by "unfair" practices (having to pay for software that I can not make a backup of, or that I can't archive, or that installs root kits, or trojans, or malware, or my privacy with tracking tools). I don't want to be spied on by some software company as part of the "fine print" in their long list of "terms and conditions" to use their software. Instead I want to see nice big huge letters on the outside of the box showing exactly what DRM is being used, and to give me the option (before I purchase the software) to see exactly what I am buying, and whether or not I want to purchase a DRM product.

I'd rather "opt out" of the DRM, and not buy it, but I certainly want to know BEFORE opening the package, and reading some crazy EULA, and finding out later that I can't return opened software, or get a refund.

That is criminal, and that is deceptive business practices. We need a DOJ lawsuit, and begin suing the pants off of these large software companies with deceptive business practices lawsuits, and start hitting them with large class action lawsuits, and begin demanding FULL CASH refunds.

Let EA stick their DRM where the sun doesn't shine.
0 Votes
+ -
EA's mentality
tikigawd 28th Sep 2008
They think that a pirated copy is ALWAYS a lost sale.
They don't understand (or perhaps don't want to believe) that a pirate wouldn't have bought the game anyway.
Nevertheless, it is true that they lose SOME sales.
Consoles have the advantage that the anti-piracy can be somewhat enforced due to the hardware control. Sure there are ways to chip some consoles and circumvent the security, but so far the scheme has been enough of a speed bump for most people that it's effective.

What I don't understand is why EA didn't just implement a scheme like they did in BF2 or BF2142, where you log in to a central server and only one copy of the game associated to that account can be running at any given moment. EASY!
0 Votes
+ -
EA's lack of mentality... I really wanted this game!
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
I really wanted this game as well...
To be honest, I really really wanted this game as well. Not only for the PC, but for the Mac as well. Personally, I would have bought two copies. I purchase ALL my software, and have no problem downloading AFFORDABLE music from iTunes (99 cents a download with 17 cents going to the actual artist seems fair). But when I see greedy crooks that overprice their software (yes, I do pay $49-$59 per XBOX 360 game that I purchase), but I don't mind paying for good software. All I'm asking is that my computer isn't infested with DRM trojans, and root kits, and on top of it you want me to PAY for that?

Heck, if I wanted root kits or trojans, I'd go look for a torrent, but why PAY MONEY to infect myself? Doesn't make any sense at all.

Personally I won't buy anything with DRM's. Apparently software companies like EA just don't get it. I agree with the other poster, who said just restrict the online users to ONE user per license key. So you could have nice DRM free software, and install it on 2 or 3 of your computers, but only be able to use it on ONE machine at a time (because only ONE computer could connect to the online server per license key) at a time. To me, that makes complete sense. It makes things simple, and keeps the consumers happy!

I'd be extremely happy with a DRM free copy of Spore (for both the PC and Mac) and I'd gladly buy two copies (one for Windows, and one for Mac). One for the kids (Windows), and one for myself (on my Mac). Getting rid of DRM keeps the consumers happy. Customers can copy the CD, and give a burnt copy to the children to chew on and destroy. The CD can get scratched, and no harm is done. Just pull the master copy off the shelf, burn the kids another copy, and let the kids destroy it again (that's what kids are good at). I buy all my Disney movies, and keep the originals on a shelf. I burn the kids a copy, and if it gets scratched, or broken in half, at least I'm not crying about it. If you had young children, you'd understand. It happens. If I had to pay $49 everytime a game got destroyed, I would be bankrupt by now.

I buy it ONCE, and I keep it on the shelf. Personally, I think Spore is a game that not only the kids would love, but I would love as well. To be honest, I would buy two copies (one for the children, and one that I could play on my Mac as well). It looks really cool, and I love the Sims, and Railroad Tycoon, and Sid Meier's games. I saw Spore coming out, and I was waiting to see the reviews, and I was just completely shocked at all the 1 star ratings. Seems like EVERYONE is outraged by the DRM. It made me realize that eventually consumers need to take a stand. I would have gladly given EA my money (even twice) to purchase a good game, but when a company gets greedy and resorts to evil DRM, then I'll just walk away from it. I'll stick to scrabble, or solitaire, at least they are both DRM free. wink

If I wanted to pirate the software, I'm sure it could easily be found on a torrent site and be fully cracked and DRM free. So EA's excuse that "DRM prevents or stops piracy" is a complete joke. Nope, DRM doesn't prevent piracy at all (as you can see by the author's article, he even shows that DRM does absolutely NOTHING to stop piracy). Pirates will always pirate. The only thing DRM does is stop legitimate users from buying good legal software. That's all DRM does. DRM only screws the people willing to pay for it. That's all it does. Pirates have proven over and over again, that you can't stop piracy with DRM. DRM doesn't work. Never has, never will. Go back to the "common sense" approach, and offer DRM-free software at an affordable price (that's what consumers want, and that's what consumers will pay for). Make software affordable, so people don't even bother or waste their time with piracy. Who would waste their time pirating a 99 cent song, when you can buy it from iTunes and own it legally? Most people really do want to "do the right thing" but when you screw with consumers, and tie our hands with stupid DRM, and restrict our "fair use" rights, eventually we will begin to take a stand and voice our concerns, and begin to speak with our wallets. If you say "DRM is the answer" then I will tell you with my wallet, that DRM is NOT the answer. Install DRM in your software, and I won't buy it. Plain and simple. Go back to what the previous poster said, about restricting online use to one computer at a time (based on license key). So only one user can be on at a time (based on the license key) and do things that way. It makes good sense, and it also allows parents to burn a copy of the game to keep for "backup purposes" in case a disk gets scratched or destroyed. I love my children, but they are not easy on their toys. I don't mind paying for software, but I want the originals to stay on the shelf, and I will burn a copy for the kids, and if they scratch it, or crack it in half, or step on it, at least I'm not out $50. At least I won't be crying, or stressing over it.

I really hate to miss out on a game like Spore, because it really did look interesting, and really did look like it could have become a big hit and an all time "classic" (like the Sims) but unfortunately the Sony DRM is what did it for me, I'll stay away from that crap and I hope all the users that did buy the software can file a class action lawsuit against EA, and get a FULL refund. If everyone demands their money back, at least it would show EA that DRM doesn't make sense. At least teach EA a lesson, and teach them that deceptive business practices are NOT acceptable. Show EA that we will NOT be bullied around as consumers. If you have ANY type of DRM in your software product, then it should be CLEARLY LABELED with the type/brand of DRM and it should be labeled on the OUTSIDE of the box (just like a age/maturity warning rating on games to warn parents). That way people can see the DRM, and decide whether or not they want to purchase a software title with that type of DRM or not.

Personally, I don't like it. I avoid ANY type of intrusive DRM software, and I don't like anything that "phones home" or tracks me, and it's no different than malware or spyware, or any other type of malicious backdoor trojan.

Software companies seem to think that it's "acceptable practice" to install a root kit, malware or trojan on my computer (Microsoft seemed to think so), so I switched over to Mac.

I can prove my point with my money (as can most others). If EA wants to ruin a game with strict DRM, then I just simply won't buy the product. Just as the other posters have said, it's a DOUBLE EDGE SWORD for EA. They lose the money from the pirates (who weren't going to spend the money or pay for the software in the first place) and then EA loses the money from the legitimate customers who REALLY do want to spend the money, and really do want to buy the product, but just aren't going to put up with the stupid and foolish DRM crap. So now EA loses out on both sides. DRM only stops legitimate consumers, not the pirates.

If I buy the software, I own the software, and I believe I own the "fair right" to use that software. I feel I should be able to install that software on any machine that I own, or anywhere I please... and I believe that once I purchase that software it becomes MINE (not EA's). I believe in FAIR USE of the software. Not restricted use, not temporary use, but FAIR USE.

It's not EA's job to track me, hunt me, or install a root kit on my computer, or invade my privacy (or send usage information about what I do on my own personal and private computer).

I enjoy my privacy. I'm not going to "opt in" to any DRM nonsense. It does make more sense to get a "DRM free" product off a torrent site, (although I do NOT condone piracy) but it almost seems to make more sense to download a pirated copy that is DRM free, just so you don't have to infect yourself with the DRM root kits, and silly nonsense that software companies have been doing.

DRM doesn't stop piracy, instead it only stops legitimate customers. If EA doesn't believe me, then offer me a DRM-free product, and I will GLADLY pay EA for TWO license keys (one for windows for my children, and one for Mac for myself). I can assure you that I gladly pay for what I believe in, and what I want, but what I do NOT want is DRM. EA needs to listen loud and clear... I do NOT want DRM. I will speak with my wallet. So I hope you are listening.

If EA is going to make a stand, and show me that they are going to try and shove DRM down my throat whether I like it or not, then I'll make a stand and show EA that I simply won't buy their products. None of them. If EA wants to punish me as a consumer, then I'll just stop buying EA products all together.

If need be, then I'll stop buying EA Sports games for the XBOX 360 as well (even though it has nothing to do with this topic or subject) but I can show EA that I simply will NOT tolerate this.

If EA wants to kick their consumers around, then the consumers can kick back. All it takes is "speak with your wallet". Boycott their goods, and stop buying their products, and let EA feel the pinch.

Instead of enjoying record sales, and making HUGE profits, instead they can sulk in their stupidity over some stupid hairbrain idea to infest their good software with some lamebrain idea of some root kit garbage DRM.

There are OTHER WAYS to stop "piracy". As the other user stated previously, don't use DRM. DRM doesn't work. DRM is a waste of money for not only EA, but for the consumer as well. Instead, EA could easily just set their online servers up so that it only accepts ONE connection per license key. That will stop the piracy, and also it will make the consumers happy.

My children have an XBOX Live membership, and they love being able to go over to grandma's house and play XBOX live, or come home and use their same account at home. No silly restrictions, no silly nonsense. They just use their login, and password (and only 1 XBOX can be online at a time). It prevents piracy, but at the same time it keeps the kids happy, and makes everyone happy.

As I stated previously, I'd gladly pay for TWO copies of this Spore software, if only EA would remove the DRM. If EA refuses to remove the DRM, then I refuse to buy the software. It's that simple. I speak with my wallet.

If EA's "logic" is that I would possibly "pirate" the software if they removed the DRM, then I would have to say that their logic if FLAWED, because if I wanted to pirate the software I would just go download it off a torrent site, or any of the other various pirate places, which have the software (DRM free) and often have it before it's even released in stores. So their silly nonsense about how DRM stops piracy is nothing but folklore garbage. DRM doesn't stop anything. DRM only stops legitimate users from paying to purchase a product.

How can you stop people that aren't willing to pay? You can't. It's like telling law-abiding citizens that they can't own a gun (and only criminals can). Doesn't make any sense at all. It doesn't reduce crime. Instead it's just the opposite. DRM has just the opposite effect. The only people that will play Spore are the pirates that can download a DRM free product, and enjoy it (for free).

Look at all the posts, even those that do buy the software (and want to legally pay/own the software) but don't want to deal with the DRM so they go and download a DRM free copy from the net.

Just proves my point. DRM doesn't work. I even thought about downloading it myself (DRM free), but then realized that I'm not going to waste my time (or effort) to condone this silly DRM crap nonsense, and I'll prove my point by just NOT buying the software, and I'll wait till a competing product comes along that doesn't use this silly DRM crap, and I'll gladly speak with my wallet.

Anyone that comes out with a "DRM free" game that is similar or identical to Spore (or if EA gave up the silly nonsense, and released a "DRM free" version, and switched to something more practical like only allowing one computer at a time to connect to their servers per license key) then I would GLADLY buy two copies of their software product. I speak with my wallet (and also warn all the other mothers to do the same). I'm very vocal when it comes to software or movies. I can recommend the good stuff, but at the same time I will warn everyone I can to stay away from this DRM garbage. If EA was more reasonable, and eliminated the DRM and went to a different model (such as restricting the online use to only one computer online at a time per license key) then I would definitely buy and support their product. As I stated previously, I would buy TWO copies, not just one. One for myself (for Mac) and one for the children (Windows). I'd gladly pay $100 for something I believe in, but I won't spent 99 cents for something that I don't.

If EA removed the DRM, I would also send them a nice letter, along with a photocopy of my receipt, and thank them for being reasonable, and thank them for creating a wonderful product. Thank them for making a consumer happy. Instead, I will just read all the other complaints, and read all the 1-star reviews on Amazon.com, and I'll wait patiently for some crooked lawyer that is itching to sue someone, and pray that he starts up a nice class-action lawsuit against EA, and hopefully every single person that purchased Spore will be entitled to a FULL REFUND as part of the class-action lawsuit settlement, and I hope EA loses their tail over all this. I'd love to see EA go NEGATIVE, and lose millions and millions of dollars, and watch them end up on their head because of some STUPID decision by greedy senior management to screw their consumers.

If Microsoft keeps shafting their consumers, then everyone will own a Mac. If EA starts shafting their consumers, then everyone will abandon the EA products and consumers will begin to use their wallet as a "voting mechanism". Those poor people that spent money on a product infested with DRM deserve a full refund. I believe legislation needs to be enacted to PROTECT CONSUMERS, and all software companies should have FULL DISCLOSURE on the outside of the box, with BIG BRIGHT LETTERS showing exactly what DRM the software contains (if any) and let the consumers decide, and let the consumers choose.

At least we can post messages like this, and warn others, and hopefully avoid the nasty DRM, and prove once and for all that DRM doesn't work, and use our wallets to support the companies that sell software DRM free. Music CD's were always DRM free, and I've purchased hundreds and hundreds of them.

Suddenly this stupid "DRM craze" is nothing but a "scare tactic" by companies like Sony, to try and convince big software companies that everyone is a pirate, and the only way to stop piracy is to install a root kit on their computer. Nah, not true. You'll never stop piracy. The root kit, and DRM only stops the legitimate consumers from purchasing, that's all it stops. As the other poster said, go to a DRM free software, and just restrict access to the server, so that only ONE computer (per license key) can be online at a time. That's the easiest way to stop piracy, and keep the legitimate customers happy. It's a good balance, and at least the paying customers are receiving a DRM free product, and I can copy the disk, and don't have to worry about the kids destroying it, and at the same time EA doesn't have to worry about everyone pirating their software, because only ONE computer (per license key) could be online playing the game at a time (just like XBOX Live). It works, and it works well. EA should learn something from this, and hopefully wake up and smell the coffee. DRM doesn't work. Don't piss off your customer base, because we're the only ones that are willing to spend money, or pay. Pirates don't pay for software, so just screw your head on straight and realize that. The pirates cracked your silly DRM garbage way before you even had a chance to release the software. So it just goes to prove that DRM doesn't work, and DRM only screws the consumer. That's it, and that's all it does is screw the consumer.

I hate to see a game like Spore flop, because I really wanted this game, my kids are distraught, but I control the money and I control what gets purchased, and nothing with DRM will end up getting bought. That's my stand. As long as I can make "backup copies" of software that I purchase (for my own personal/family use) then I'm happy. As long as there is no DRM, then I'm happy. I understand software companies want to keep their profits high, but consumers don't want their "fair use" rights taken away or infringed upon. Give me "fair use" and I will give you my money. Restrict my "fair use" and I won't give you a penny. Sound fair?

The music industry learned a LOT from Apple iTunes. They realized that if you sell a song for 99 cents, that people will gladly PAY for music (that they could pirate or get for free elsewhere) but if you give them an AFFORDABLE and cheap alternative (to own it legally) people will pay for it.

Make the software affordable, and don't use any DRM (and restrict online usage to one computer per license key) and do things that way. It will keep the consumers happy, and it will be a win-win situation for everyone. Thank-you.
0 Votes
+ -
Agree... but your post is too long
fair_rakel 21st Nov 2008
Holy crap. I agree with you, especially on the bit where if software companies just lowered their prices they would get more sales, myself included. I often buy games used just so I don't have to pay full retail price. However, your post is so lengthy and repetitive that I stopped reading about halfway through, and I think I absorbed all of the information you were trying to impart. I don't mean to be rude, but you may want to review your posts before sending them to make sure you stay the the point and not repeat your self.. it may garner more discussion on the matter.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
Stuff_For_Reflection 25th Sep 2008
Thing is that EA does make the choose to act like it does. So it seems they are counting on people being sheep and just allow these "mal"practices to continue.

As editors already mentioned on Tom's hardware page (a hardware/software reviewing website) EA must have had lots of research done before and about DRM in general. Having this information at hand they still opted to use SecuROM (a product created by Sony who already was a tainted past with certain music cd's installing root kits on costumers computers) in their products.

Time will tell if corporate America / world enterprises will stop deploying intrusive DRM-systems onto their costumers personal computers with or without the costumers knowledge.
0 Votes
+ -
No "fair use"? Then demand a full cash refund...
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
As consumers we need to file class action lawsuits, and demand FULL CASH REFUNDS (for all DRM-related products) and demand "fair use" of products we purchase.

We also need congressman (and elected representatives) to enact proper legislation that will put an end to DRM, and force companies to CLEARLY LABEL their DRM products in big huge letters on the outside of the box, so that consumers can see (in big colored letters) the name, type, and description of the DRM in the product.

That way consumers can make an "informed decision" about the software that they purchase and know what they are buying (before making a purchase) and before opening the product only to be surprised by some crazy EULA, and find out that somewhere buried in some small tiny "fine print" that they somehow agreed to allow a root kit, or trojan to be installed on their computer (just to use a piece of software that they purchased a license for). That makes no sense at all.

It needs to end, DRM is completely out of control and consumers need FULL DISCLOSURE. We need to begin filing class action lawsuits against any software company (starting with EA and Spore) that uses DRM and once we win one large class action lawsuit, then we can slowly begin hitting the others, and slowly turn this insanity around, and begin making software companies realize that taking away our "Fair Use" rights is NOT an excuse to claim that it "stops piracy". Nope, DRM doesn't stop piracy at all. It only restricts "fair use" and hurts those consumers that pay for and license the software. DRM doesn't hurt the pirates at all. Instead it only punishes those consumers that purchase the product.

Hit EA with a class action lawsuit, and demand a full cash refund. Hit EA in the pocketbook, boycott their products, and make an example out of them. At least demonstrate to the world that DRM doesn't work once and for all, so that consumers stop getting kicked around in all this "Oh DRM is for your own good..." crap. No, DRM is NOT for my own good. DRM eliminates my "fair use" and wipes out all the "fair use" rights intended for usage of copyright materials.

So if DRM that violates my "fair use" rights in ANY way, then software companies, movie companies, and music companies should be sued.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
akaltman@... 25th Sep 2008
I'm an invisible statistic for Spore's DRM. I won't buy it, and I won't pirate it. I am glad this blog gives me an opportunity to tell EA how I feel.

I think the answer to this issue is easy: DRM costs money to implement, hurts sales of a product, and does nothing to stop piracy. Taking away the costs of implementing DRM, and increased sales and customer loyalty offset the piracy that is going to happen no matter what DRM is used.

Removing DRM is just good business sense.
0 Votes
+ -
I was considering buying Spore
voska1 25th Sep 2008
Now I'm not going to because of this. I've heard some good things about the game too. Too bad. Guess I'll spend that money on something else.
0 Votes
+ -
I agree, I wanted to buy Spore as well... two copies, not just one.
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
You have no idea how bad I wanted this game as well. As a consumer, I speak with my wallet, and if EA tries to bully us around and shove DRM down our throats then I'll just speak with my wallet.

I wanted to purchase two copies (one copy for Windows for my children, and one copy for Mac for myself). I'm going to boycott Spore as well, just to prove a point with EA.

I've never pirated a game before, but maybe this will be my first. If it's the only way I can get a DRM-free copy, is to use a "DRM-free pirated version" well, I don't know. I don't condone piracy, but at the same time I certainly will NOT support DRM.

I've pondered the thought of purchasing the game, and then only installing a DRM-free pirated copy (that is DRM free) but then I realized that I'm NOT going to spend my money supporting a DRM-infested product, or give EA my money for infesting a product with DRM.

So now I'm back to where I started, and the end result seems that I'm just going to have to pass on this game, and walk away from it. It's sad, but I will NOT support DRM products. I speak with my wallet.

I supposed if more people stopped buying DRM products, and more people began downloading pirated "DRM-free" software, than maybe the software companies would get the hint? Maybe suddenly they will do what Microsoft is doing, and "bow down" to the consumer, and begin offering affordable software licenses for $30 instead of $189 or $229. Consumers speak with their wallets, and a product is only worth what the market is willing to pay for it.

If EA is targeting the broke kids that pirate all their software, and think that DRM is suddenly going to cause them to pay money, then they are wrong. DRM only affects the middle class people (such as myself) that legitimately pay for their software, and when you hit us with DRM, and do NOT allow us to make "backup copies" that our young children can scratch and destroy, then I will speak with my wallet, and boycott your products. There are other ways to stop piracy, and DRM is NOT one of them. DRM doesn't work. DRM is easily cracked, and as you can see this DRM was cracked way before you even were able to release the software to the stores.

So don't think for a second that DRM works, or that DRM is the answer. Instead, focus on giving the consumers AFFORDABLE products, and DRM-free products. Restrict usage by license key, and only allow one user (per license key) online at a time playing the game. That will stop the piracy, and that will keep the consumers happy, and keep the mothers happy, and make everyone happy. EA makes their money, the kids get to play, and mom is happy that the kids are happy, and mom is happy that she isn't spending $50 every time the kids scratch a disk. Give me "fair use" and I will give you my money. Restrict my "fair use" and you will never see a dime of my money.

I'm honestly considering taking away all the EA sports games from the kids as well. I know they love them, and I know XBOX 360 is completely different, but after EA did this to me (as a consumer) I really want to show EA that I'm not going to tolerate it.

Maybe I'll only skip the EA sports games for one year (2009) just to prove my point, and I know the kids will hate me for it, but I need to make a point... and maybe I'll talk to all the other mothers, and ask them to do the same. If everyone boycotts EA for one year, and just hit them in the pocket book, and make them realize that consumers can fight back with their wallets.

Just stop buying any and ALL EA games for one year, and if everyone joined in, then maybe we can bring about change in EA's philosophy, and if EA doesn't want to get rid of DRM, then maybe we just need to continue to boycott EA until they collapse and fold. After they go bankrupt and out of business, then we can show other software companies that DRM doesn't work, and if they try to pull the same stunt that we can boycott them as well. We'll start with EA, and make an example out of EA, and show companies that DRM doesn't work, and to stop listening to the "Sony marketing team" that tries to pitch stupid folklore about how great their DRM products are, and how secure DRM is, it's nothing but garbage. DRM doesn't work, the pirates cracked it way before it was even in stores. So DRM is not the answer you silly little people.

If you want to increase your sales, then lower the price, offer consumers affordable software, make it readily available for download, and make the licensing "fair use" so that we can use it on as many computers as we like (with NO restrictions) and just make it so that only ONE user can play at a time online. That's all I ask. It's fair for you, and it's fair for me (as a mother with children) and it's a win-win situation for both of us.

Make me happy, and I will give you my money. Make me upset, and I will make sure that you do NOT have my money, and I will make sure that no one I know gives you their money as well. One angry customer is a million times worse than a thousand happy customers. I will have nothing but bad things to say about EA, and all EA products until EA changes their ways, and gets rid of the DRM and goes back to something FAIR. I believe in paying for my software, but at the same time I expect FAIR USE of the product.

Restrict (or eliminate) my "fair use" and I can assure you that I will eliminate my money from your bank account. I won't spend a penny, and I will hit you in the pocketbook, and if enough people join in on a boycott (and maybe even a lawyer comes forward to help with a class-action lawsuit, demanding that those that paid for the software get a FULL REFUND) then maybe we can slowly turn EA on their heads, and bring about change in the software industry. All we can do is speak with our wallets.

For those that already paid, all they can do is demand their money back, or join in on a class-action lawsuit against EA. Ask your legislatures to enact legislation that will FORCE movie companies, music companies, and software companies to CLEARLY LABEL in big huge letters the type of DRM used (just like a age/violence warning) clearly showing if ANY DRM is in the product. That way consumers have a choice, and they can choose NOT to purchase a product that has DRM in it, and at least consumers won't be "surprised" after they open the software and find out there is DRM, and are told that they can't return the product because it has already been opened (and paid for). Seems like unfair business practices, and deceptive business practices to me. I disagree with the EULA, and disagree with the terms of the software license, but I'm not entitled to a full refund? Sounds like fraud.

Give everyone their money back, and you can keep your DRM. We don't want it. Just give everyone that joins the class action lawsuit a FULL REFUND (cash money) and if you end up on your head, or end up negative, then so be it. At least it will teach the developers and software companies a lesson. That DRM doesn't work. (The pirates already seem to know and understand this). It's only the PAYING consumers that get screwed by DRM. DRM doesn't work, it never has, and never will. So give it up, and give the consumers what we want. Affordable non-DRM software, and please just use license keys to restrict online usage. It's fair, it's customer friendly, and it stops piracy (by restricting online usage).
0 Votes
+ -
Deceptive Business Practice....
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"Removing DRM is just good business sense."

I completely agree as well.



"I'm an invisible statistic for Spore's DRM. I won't buy it, and I won't pirate it. I am glad this blog gives me an opportunity to tell EA how I feel."

I completely agree with you, and I'm in the same exact boat. I certainly won't buy it, and I do not condone piracy, but if I was ever tempted to download a pirated program it surely would be this one.

I'm not saying that I would do it, or that I would condone it, and I'm certainly against piracy, but if my only option to get a DRM-free product, was to download a pirated version... then it seems like that is the only viable option for some.

As for myself, I will just become another "statistic" and I'll just skip the purchase, and wait for a comparable product that doesn't have any DRM on it, and isn't infested with rootkit trojan DRM nonsense/malware/spyware.

I'm not interested in paying money to infect my computer with a root kit/malware/spyware. Nor will I agree to such an absurd thing as part of ANY EULA. What happened to consumer advocacy groups, and protecting consumers? Might be time to call the Attorney General, and beg them to take a stand against all this silly nonsense and ask our elected representatives to ban DRM all together, and begin fining companies that restrict "fair use" and force these large software companies to give FULL REFUNDS to consumers, and begin to properly label the outside of the boxes with big large letters describing the name, type, and detailed description of the DRM in the product. At least allow consumers to decide (prior to paying for a product, and prior to opening a product, and prior to reading the EULA, and deciding that they do not agree with the EULA, but stores refuse to give a cash refund for any opened software. So two things need to happen. If a product has ANY DRM on it, consumers should be allowed to return the software to ANY STORE for a full cash refund of the product (no questions asked - full refund). Also secondly all software should be properly marked on the outside with big huge letters, and a very detailed description of the DRM used in the software. At least give consumers a choice to make an informed decision (and the opportunity to boycott any DRM software) without having to purchase it first, and then discover later that DRM is installed, and now they are unable to return the software because the box was opened. It seems very unfair, and a very deceptive business practice.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
mschwartz123 25th Sep 2008
The SecuROM was designed to prevent piracy of the game, but I knew pirates would have a cracked version of the game out only days after the release. So all SecuROM does is penalize those who purchased Spore (myself) with a third party applet that bores itself into the "Ring 0" of the computer.
I wonder how Will Wright feels about this?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
XXXXXXXXXXX> 25th Sep 2008
I AM A PIRATE. AND IN FULL SUPPORT OF THE FOREMENTIONED PIRATING WEB-PAGE. THE ONLY THING IM AGAINST IS THE SALE OF PIRATED SOFTWARE. THIS DRM SYSTEM IS THE REASON I STARTED PIRATING SOFTWARE, SO IN ESSENCE IT IS EA'S SECURITY MEASURES THAT ARE CAUSING SO MUCH PIRACY ONLINE. YOU SLEEP IN THE BED YOU MADE EA. I MEANWHILE AM GOING TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.
0 Votes
+ -
And EA response to you pirating there software was
dave@... 25th Sep 2008
"RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
I AM A PIRATE. AND IN FULL SUPPORT OF THE FOREMENTIONED PIRATING WEB-PAGE. THE ONLY THING IM AGAINST IS THE SALE OF PIRATED SOFTWARE. THIS DRM SYSTEM IS THE REASON I STARTED PIRATING SOFTWARE, SO IN ESSENCE IT IS EA'S SECURITY MEASURES THAT ARE CAUSING SO MUCH PIRACY ONLINE. YOU SLEEP IN THE BED YOU MADE EA. I MEANWHILE AM GOING TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. "


Here is the catch 22 for EA... People wont buy a game beause of DRM ( Pathic Excuse ) but they will go priate it... and then ***** about EA putting on copy protection...

I have have seen excuses such as "I am a gamer.... but i wont pay for games...." well how in hell is EA supposed to pay for the games ... development costs... if no one buys the games....

Yes alot of the games from EA have been crap latety. but name 1 OPEN SOURCE game as complex as Grand theft auto...
0 Votes
+ -
Pirates get what they deserve most times
voska1 25th Sep 2008
There are always freeloaders. That's a given and they generally bypass DRM with ease as well. Then there are the paying customers who now see a game that is crippled with DRM. So they decided not to buy but they want the game. There is a DRM free version on the net they could use so they use it. Not something I'd do though. Personally I'd post a game download like that embedded with a reverse proxy aware Trojan. Then wait for them to contact me after installing the game. I wouldn't do anything super illegal except use their PC to click links on my website so I get paid more. Get a couple thousand suckers and the money starts rolling in. Yup, pirated software right here. Just email me. LOL IDIOTS!
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
2 wrongs Don't make a right.
BigThunder1 Updated - 25th Sep 2008
@ voska1

So how do you justify your attitude and call "others" idiots? Seems the only blooming idiot here is you! Nothing worse than a bottom feeder... aka leaching from leaches rather than putting your own work forward. Your simply a self admitting wanna-be thief! I wouldn't even honor you with the title Pirate!

At least XXXXXXXXXXX> gave justification (right or wrong) for his/her reasoning relative to the blogs content, all-be-it blatant. Your justification is nothing more than hatred and personal gain. XXXXXXXXXXX>'s "stated motive" was not for profit such as yours is. And if you were smart enough to be a big player in this game and losing money at it in the first place, you wouldn't have been stupid enough to leave yourself wide open spewing your own self centered ignorance all over the board!

Theft is never a good thing no matter how you look at it. But people like you and your attitude who would poison the water simply because you didn't like a person or what they had to say are the kind of people that scare me most. In that regard your no better, for that matter even worse, than the sneaky bastards that slip the DRM onto machines in the first place. :/

Take a good look in the mirror the next time you feel like calling someone an IDIOT! Right or wrong, XXXXXXXXXXX>'s comment/response was within the scope of this article like it or not.

Yours is simply an opportunity to show your selfishness and ignorance about a problem and how we might resolve it, rather than take the opportunity to establish a dialog with someone who at least had the gall to stand up and speak up for what they believe. And for that you stereotype them and put them down with no regard. Who's really the idiot here?

I'm not taking sides, I'd just like to know what gives you the right to attempt playing God with an attitude? Pirating software has increased since the advent of DRM and DRM-rootkit installations (Sony to name one). SO,... who's really at fault here for your shortsighted narrow-minded attitude?

Your answer to the solution is terrorism for personal gain, and I have absolutely no use or respect for IDIOTS like you.


BigThunder1
0 Votes
+ -
You missed the point. Completely
Cayble 26th Sep 2008
EA's response is:

"If there are some that are pirating our games then we will implement DRM that will only stop morons from pirating our game, although anyone else who wants to will be able to. We know the measures will cause problems for some and do nothing significant to stop piracy, but thats our response anyway."

It makes no sense, and still, its a fact. Its ludicrous. It hasn't slowed piracy at all, yet EA is still making money I understand so your whole money to produce games doesn't work because DRM has not done much of any significance to stop piracy.
0 Votes
+ -
Please don't do this to GTA:IV Rockstar!!!
Teyecoon Updated - 30th Sep 2008
I love the GTA series and have purchased every single one, but if Rockstar ever puts this garbage into the PC version of GTA:IV like EA...I'm afraid that I'll have to download the pirated version. The question is whether I'd end up eventually paying for it also to support the continuation of the series. I probably wouldn't if I ended up with some kind of malware from having to download a cracked version to remove unfair restrictions on the paying customers.

AS FOR EA...
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
If they would announce that this restriction will only be in place for the first year and then they will provide a cleaning utility to get rid of this version of the DRM COMPLETELY at that time and the game still works, then it might be a little more palatable. Until then, the more appealing option is to download the cracked version as a form of protest since they don't ever really listen to their customer's complaints.

I believe that many people [who would be likely to pay] pirate software for two predominate reasons. They have a bad perception of the distributing company ie. Microsoft, EA and don't want to reward them for their many anti-consumer practices. The other reason is simply because a lack of value perception of the product itself. This has multiple causes that include releasing buggy games at "full" price, games that are too short and with little replay value at "full" price and games with highly restrictive DRM use policies that install rootkits which have the potential to damage or reduce your system use and/or performance.

These 3 "new release" issues have a dramatic impact on the psyche of the buyer and when they learn about these things from others before buying, many will choose to make the company a victim by pirating since they perceive that the company knew about these issues and was willing to make the consumer a "victim" by releasing the game at "full" price without the ability for the consumer to return it upon experiencing dissatisfaction. In addition, most people don't like to be bullied into accepting some draconian measure or else they sacrifice their ability to experience something. They will simply justify their right to use the product as paid by their effort to find a way around the restrictions that they weren't willing to accept. The "you can't buy this unless we can install a rootkit" is hard for anyone to swallow and is basically just another form of anti-consumerism.
0 Votes
+ -
I agree....
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
Very well stated. Again, I completely agree.

"I believe that many people [who would be likely to pay] pirate software for two predominate reasons. They have a bad perception of the distributing company ie. Microsoft, EA and don't want to reward them for their many anti-consumer practices. The other reason is simply because a lack of value perception of the product itself."


Again, I completely agree! That's why so many people pirate Microsoft products (at least through the first 2 service packs). People hate being "Beta testers" and getting shafted.

Personally, I really do want the Spore product. I'm not "likely" to pay, but instead I am WILLING to pay. I would gladly give EA my money right now, as we speak... and even pay them TWICE (for two copies) if only they would remove the garbage DRM, and stop trying to hose up my computer with their silly nonsense.

I consent to paying for the game, but I do NOT consent to them kicking me around and installing their nasty DRM software on my computer, or preventing me from making an archive backup copy (for my children, so if my children scratch the disk I'm not screwed out of $50).

All three times that my children have scratched a DRM protected game, I contact the company, tell them what happened, photo copy my receipt, even photocopy the box with the original UPC, and even photocopy the back page of the manual, and every software company to include "2K" and "Fireaxis Games" has told me to shove it up my arse, and go buy another copy. That's their solution to my problem. I just wasted $50, and now I have to spend another $50 just because software that I already paid for and am licensed to use, but can't use because the disk is damaged, and I was unable to even make a backup copy because of the DRM, and the company tells me to screw myself and go buy another copy.

Well, what are you supposed to do? Seems like you have no other choice but to download a pirated/cracked version, and it's sad but this is how these software companies treat their customers.


"The 'you can't buy this unless we can install a rootkit' is hard for anyone to swallow and is basically just another form of anti-consumerism."


Yep, again I completely agree with you there. I can't even understand who/what/how/why DRM was made legal in the United States, it's about as UNAMERICAN as it gets. Apparently the politicians were sleeping with the RIAA and MPAA, and someone convinced them that screwing consumers was the "right thing to do". There is nothing good about DRM. Nothing. The only people that it hurts is the consumer. It does nothing to prevent or stop piracy, nothing. Pirates have proven time and time again that it takes less than a day for them to disable or remove the DRM, and crack the software.

The only people that DRM hurts and stops are the paying consumers. The paying consumers are the only ones that are crippled and hurt by DRM.



" This has multiple causes that include releasing buggy games at "full" price, games that are too short and with little replay value at "full" price and games with highly restrictive DRM use policies that install rootkits which have the potential to damage or reduce your system use and/or performance."


Yep, like a broken record we all seem to be hearing and saying the same thing.

Might be time to start writing our politicians and ask them to abolish the DMCA, and go back to what Canada is doing (eliminating the DMCA) and start going back to "common sense" in America, and allow consumers to just disable the DRM on the products they purchase, and use cracked/DRM free products (legally) as an alternative to DRM infested products.

Also begin making the companies that utilize DRM pay all the expenses associated with such technology. If my children scratch a DVD, and you refuse to allow me to make a "backup copy" (because you decided to use DRM) then that's fine.. just mail me a backup copy free of charge (over night delivery) to my house, and you have 24 hours from the time I call, to have the backup copy delivered to me (or you pay for a "loss of use") and if my kids scratch 60 DVD's in a year or two, then maybe these companies will begin to get the idea that DRM is not cost effective for them (but instead the burden seems to always be on the consumer, and the consumer gets screwed, not the big companies that are charging $50 for a game, and then spending 19 cents on a mass produced CD, but when I ask for a replacement they want to tell me to go to the store and spend another $50 to purchase another copy. Nah, it doesn't work like that.

For $50, I should get at least 263 copies of the game (at 19 cents a disk), shipped to me (over night mail - free of charge) anytime I ask.

Sure, will it eat into their profits? Of course. But that's the COST of implementing DRM. When companies suddenly have to PAY for DRM (and pay for the associated costs and loss of use) then suddenly DRM will go right out the window. But right now, DRM only screws consumers.

DRM doesn't hurt the big companies, DRM doesn't hurt the pirates, DRM only hurts the consumers. That's it.

DRM doesn't stop piracy, DRM doesn't slow down piracy, DRM only hurts the paying customers. That's it. It will never stop piracy, and never will stop piracy. So why does DRM exist? So they can sell more games to the same consumers that were willing to pay for the game the first time. You scratch a disk, and they sell you another copy of the same software that you already paid for, and already own a license to use.

This is how they make their money, they screw their own customers. If I pay for a software license (for copyrighted software) I should be allowed to USE that software for as long as I own that license (not for as long as the disk doesn't get scratched).

So if I can't make a backup copy of the disk (for archive purposes) then my license is NOT for any software, but instead I'm getting screwed over and shafted and I'm paying $50 for a 19 cent disk.

So software companies need to start selling software for $2/game (or sell it online for 99 cents a game), and then I'll be happy to pay 99 cents for a game, and if the disk gets scratched, then I'll pay another 99 cents, or I'll just download the game for free (since I already own the software). That is "Fair Use".

This silly nonsense that companies are doing now is just crooked and criminal.
0 Votes
+ -
Dude, ever heard of a Caps Lock key???
Hallowed are the Ori 25th Sep 2008
Find it, use it, love it.
0 Votes
+ -
.....
Linux User 147560 25th Sep 2008
He did... devil
0 Votes
+ -
No, you are pirating because you have no respect for laws
FinanceBuzz 25th Sep 2008
Piracy is illegal. Piracy is theft. Just because you do not like DRM (which is your right), that does NOT give you a right to circumvent it and steal it. You have no right to a non-DRMed copy of software, music, DVDs, etc. Besides, I fail to see what the big deal is here. Isn't five installs enough? Why do you need to install it beyond that?

And yes I think that DRM stops CASUAL piracy. I have friends who play lots of games and use lots of music but probably don't have the first clue about torrents and cracking DRM. It is these users - a very significant portion of the modern user base of technology - that DRM keeps from engaging in casual, and perhaps "innocent" piracy. The hackers/crackers/pirates will continue to find their way around such restrictions.
0 Votes
+ -
5 installs often not enough
Bucky24 26th Sep 2008
Before I bought a dedicated gaming rig, I used my old
beat up development pc for my gaming. As a rule, I
usually reinstall the OS on that machine every month,
because I test out tweaks that usually break it. So I
also had to reinstall my games every month if I wanted
to play them. 5 reinstalls would run out for me after
less than half a year.

-Bucky24
0 Votes
+ -
Absolutly silly. Just nonsense.
Cayble 26th Sep 2008
The least intrusive and least risky DRM from years ago stopped casual pirating and "accidental" piracy as you like to put it. Your whole post is basically implying that DRM stops simple piracy of making copies of game disks. BIG DEAL. That was accomplished years ago that you couldn't copy many disks without special disk cloning software, and if they don't know about torrents and DRM then they don't know about cloning software either. So that job was accomplished way back when, and nothing particularly new has been accomplished with DRM since.

Basically, "anti idiot" piracy was invented a long long time ago. The problem is, that anyone who has a slight interest in pirating software can and will always be able to do so. Is five installs enough? Who knows. The same poor souls who would only capable of "CASUAL" or "ACCIDENTAL" piracy as you like to say are also more then clueless enough to think when they purchase a game they own it. They think that if they decide to uninstall a game they don't use much anymore, then give it a try again a couple of years later it will work. After all, thats the way its always worked in the past.

Just how stupid is this five install idea? Its beyond insane. There are some cool old games that I reinstall years and years later just to have a bit of old nostalgic fun for a few weeks. It happens all the time for thousands!

Basically what EA is saying that this game you purchase, Spore, will be a useless hunk of plastic after a while unless you can find an old copy some place 10 years from now because if you install it five times its toast. I promise you, if the average person(the same ones that might casually pirate)understood the full implications of what purchasing a copy of Spore means (and they don't) they would think the five install rule was criminal.
0 Votes
+ -
You are missing the point
Mectron 17th Oct 2008
DRM IS ILLEGAL PERIOD! no if but or then, it is (because of its very nature) illegal.

World of warcraft is a success and use NO DRM! you can transfere the game folder to anywhere on any machine... and as sold mroe then 10 millions copy of it. Why?

1. Quality
2. The game is tie to you not your computer. (i carry World of warcraft on a USB drive, so i can play it anywhere i want)

EA need to be teach a lesson that DRM is not acceptable for any reason... just not buying the game is not enough... they must be aware that the game is a huge success.. but they are not cashing in because OF DRM....

DRM serve no usefull purpose for anyone.
DRM is illegal (prevent you from enjoying a product you paid for)
0 Votes
+ -
And organisations that use DRM have no respect for their customers.
Henry Miller 19th Oct 2008
Organisations that use DRM are implicitly accusing everyone of being a potential, if not actual, thief, and I see no reason to tolerate that.
0 Votes
+ -
Has nothing to do with laws... has to do with common sense
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"Piracy is illegal. Piracy is theft. Just because you do not like DRM (which is your right), that does NOT give you a right to circumvent it and steal it. You have no right to a non-DRMed copy of software, music, DVDs, etc."

Well apparently you work for the RIAA/MPAA and big software companies and make a living shafting consumers like us.

When I have to get 12-20 disks replaced (because they were scratched) in the course of a year, that's about $600 to $1,000 a year that I have to spend (in addition to the $600 to $1,000 I already spent on the original copy) just because a disk gets a small knick in it, or a small scratch. When I have to pay almost 10% of my income to replace software that I already paid for, and already own, then there is a problem with the system.

So your stupid little comments about how "DRM stops piracy" is complete nonsense. Nope, DRM doesn't stop piracy. DRM stops consumers like me, who purchase all their software, and who even contact the software manufacture and ask or offer to have a replacement disk "drop shipped" to me (they ship me a new one, and I stick the old one in a self-addressed return envelope and mail the old one back). Not a single software company will offer to send me a replacement disk, and they all tell me to just go out and spend another $50 and buy the game for a 2nd time.

Nah, this isn't about piracy. This whole DRM issue is about SCREWING consumers, and screwing the paying customers, and creating a "system life" of video games, and movies, and music. It's all about "shortening the shelf life". The music is only good for as long as you don't scratch the disk. The life of the software is only as good as the life of the media that the software (or music) is on. The movie is only good for as long as you don't scratch the disk. The disk gets dirty, or gets a nick in it, and I guess that's the end of your software license agreement, and now you have to walk down to the door and spend another $50 and buy a new one.

That's how these software companies make their money, and up their sales numbers, and clap their hands while shafting consumers. Does it cost $50 to make a 19 cent disk? Absolutely not.

So begin selling software for 99 cents a game (what the software is actually really worth) and do away with disks all together, and allow customers to buy and download all their software for 99 cents a game.

That way we don't have to worry about any scratched disks, no scratched games, no duplicate purchases. Nothing. We lose the software, no big deal. We just go back online, login to our account, and redownload the software that we already purchased, and re-use our same license key. Our licenses, and our software is available online (under our account) and we can access it and download it anytime we want.

This isn't about piracy, this is about FAIR USE. This whole DRM issue isn't about piracy, this is about screwing the crap out of consumers, making tons of money, and screwing the living crap out of consumers. That's all this DRM crap is about. 99.5% of all the people I know (that choose to pirate) just download and pirate. So your lame excuse of your friends are "too stupid" to pirate is just complete nonsense. Heck, if they want to pirate they can walk down to the local flea market and buy any game they want (DRM-free).

I know people that sell software out of the trunk of their car, so this has nothing to do with "DRM stopped piracy". Nope, the only person that gets screwed by DRM is me (and everyone else that was stupid enough to pay for their software).

Pay for software, and own the software legitimately, and you will get screwed in the arse by DRM.

DRM does nothing to stop piracy, and it does nothing to stop the spread of piracy. I don't care how many crazy stupid statistics Sony claims, and says it will take "60 lifetimes" to crack their DRM encryption.

2 days later the encryption is cracked, and the game is floating around the internet. So much for all that silly nonsense.

So your silly little "stupid speak" of your friends being too retarded to figure out how to pirate or buy a pirated game, well that just shows that morons hang out with morons. If you can't figure out how to fire up a bit torrent, or can't even figure out how to find a flea market, or even ask someone at work for a game or piece of software, then I guess you are much stupider than you sound. You must have problems zipping up your pants you dumb monkey.

DRM doesn't stop piracy you moron. If you haven't figured that out just give me "legal immunity" for a week and I will show you how to download just about any pirated game you could ever imagine, and mail that crap to you, you dumb idiot (just to prove that DRM does nothing to stop piracy). So DRM is not a solution, but instead DRM is the problem!

Listen to all these posts. When people are screaming and complaining about how awful DRM has gotten, and people are even pondering the thought of piracy (as an alternative to buying a legal DRM-infested product) then that should be your first clue that DRM is broken. That DRM doesn't work, and that DRM is the REAL PROBLEM (not the actual piracy).

If you want to stop piracy, that's simple. Just lower your price. Remove the DRM, and drop your price. Nobody can sell air, when air is free. Try bottling air and selling it for $50 a can, and see how rich you get. Nobody will buy it. Now lower the price of software to 99 cents a download, and then you can stand on a street corner with your bootleg disks and offer them for $7 - $12 a copy, and see how many you sell. Not a one. Who will buy pirated software, or even mess with software that has been floating around the net (and could be unsafe, or infected with viruses or trojans) when you can buy the real thing, with a real license, and legally own the software for 99 cents.

People will do the right thing, if you make it available to them (at an affordable price). Again, iTunes has proven that over and over and over again.

Yep, it's that simple. When DRM goes out the window and software becomes affordable (for everyone, and not just the rich) then suddenly piracy stops.

Who wants to buy a bootleg CD for $3, when you can download the same music from iTunes for 99 cents?

No point in piracy anymore. The artist gets their 17 cents, and the other 82 cents goes to Apple. Sure, nice profitable business model, and the RIAA and MPAA have nothing to ***** and complain about, and same with the big record labels because they can't screw over customers with $20 CD's that only cost them 12 cents to make, and then pay the artist 17 cents, and that's 29 cents (out of a $20 CD) so where does all the rest of that money go?

Definitely NOT to the artists. So don't even say any of this is about "protecting artists" or "protecting authors". Nope, this is about BIG BUSINESS screwing the living crap out of consumers. This is about tying the consumers hands, tying their feet, and bending them over, and raping them. Again and again and again. While asking the government and police to throw anyone in jail that doesn't like to get raped. That's all this is about.

While the big filthy greedy rich, give themselves a nice $32 Million a year pay raise, and complain that sales numbers just aren't high enough, and they need to implement an "even tougher DRM" to really crack down on the consumers. You can only beat down the consumers for so long, before they finally just give up and say to hell with it, and decide that it's much easier to just pirate. DRM doesn't make any sense at all.

Soon I'll need to buy a new copy of the software everytime I sneeze. The software will automatically "reset itself" and DRM is all about human greed, and screwing consumers. That's all it's about.

Why do I need to have a disk spinning in my CD/DVD rom drive, when I can create an ISO image and mount the ISO (in RAM) and get 5-6 hours of battery life, instead of 1 hour of battery use with a spinning CD?

I supposed it's all part of your "wonderful DRM" scheme. Nah, it's called screwing the piss out of the consumer. The pirates just download the software off the web (DRM-free) and install it on the oomputer or mount it as an ISO, and they have no headaches, and no trouble. They can sit back on an airplane and fly around and play their game, and enjoy 5+ hours of battery life (because they don't have a CD-ROM driving spinning at full speed and instead they have the game loaded into RAM and mounted as an ISO) but just because I'm stupid enough to pay for my software, and get shafted up the tail by your stupid DRM, then I have to suffer?

That makes no sense at all. So instead, I get 1 hour of battery life, and meanwhile the pirates enjoy 5+ hours of battery life (because they don't have to have a stupid CD spinning at all times, as part of some CRAP DRM silly nonsense), and they can just copy or backup the game to their memory (mount it as an ISO in RAM). No moving parts, and whammo, now they get 5 hours of battery life instead of 1 hour of batter life.

All part of the wonderful DRM "business model". Seems like a pretty good deal for the pirates, and seems like a pretty raw deal for the consumers. So if you add up the good versus bad, the consumer always loses with DRM.

The negatives outweigh the positives about 100:1, and guess who always loses? Yep, you guessed it... the consumer.

If the pirates offered a "non-DRM" product versus the "DRM version" that the original author is selling, for the same price, it would make more sense to buy the better product (non-DRM) for the same price, no? So how does that benefit the software developers and artists? It doesn't. The only people that benefit are the pirates.

DRM seems to be getting worse and worse and worse, and soon my computer will ask for a stool sample, and I'll need to piss and crap in a cup, just to get the game to fire up and turn on. Soon, the game will ask for DNA samples from all my children, just to confirm that they are legitimate children, and authorized to play the game. Sound stupid? Sure, but that's how "out of control" DRM is getting.

We need to enact legislation that will completely ELIMINATE all DRM, and bring back "free and fair use" to consumers. If I purchase a song, or a movie I should be able to copy it to my iPod, or copy it to a CD or copy it to a DVD and play it in my car stereo, or play it in my DVD Player, or even copy it over to my Tivo and play it in my TIVO on my tv.

DRM only screws the consumer, that's all it does. I pay for a product, I'm allowed to use it anyway that I want, and I own the product. No encryption, no DRM, no smoke and mirrors... either you sell the product with no DRM, or you don't sell the product at all (here in America).

If you don't like it, then don't sell your products in America. Go try to sell you DRM product to a place like China, and let them laugh in your face.

Instead, the only people that are punished are the law abiding citizens, not the pirates, and not the criminals. Only the law abiding citizens. That's how DRM works.

DRM doesn't stop, doesn't slow down, and doesn't prevent any pirate from pirating anything. Even a monkey can buy a CD or game, or burn a CD or pickup a game from a friend, or a local flea market, or a swap meet, or even clowns selling stuff out of the trunk of their car. So trying to tell me that DRM is the solution is the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard. You must work for Sony if you're selling stupid crap like that.

Oh yeah, 60 lifetimes to crack the encryption, and break the key. Yep, 2 days later the software is completely cracked, and Sony is putting their foot in their mouth again.

So much for that DRM. Heck, the game is DRM-free and floating around the internet before it was even released in stores, and EA is just scratching their heads in disbelief, so trying to say that DRM is the solution just means that you are as dumb as Sony, and as dumb as the RIAA and as foolish as the MPAA.

DRM is not the answer. Try lowering your prices, and that just might be the solution. When games and music are selling for 99 cents (online in places like iTunes, or Amazon.com) and nobody on this planet would waste their time screwing with trying to crack a game, that they could purchase legally for 99 cents.

Sure, Napster was running wild with pirates, until iTunes began offering an affordable alternative for people to PAY and legally own their music for just 99 cents a song.

Look what happened. Napster gone, and iTunes selling millions and millions of dollars (windfall profits) and look at how much money the artists are making from iTunes.

So bite your tongue about labeling people at pirates, and talking about piracy. Piracy is caused by supply and demand. It's a socio-economic problem between the rich vs. the poor.

The have and have nots. You think people making $32 million a year are concerned with paying $20 for a CD? or $50 for a game? Of course not. Heck, they could care less if gas was $20 a gallon, it wouldn't even bother them.

But those in the other 99% of America, that can barely survive, are fighting to keep their jobs, are watching their wages diminish, and watching their cost of living sky rocket out of control... yes, these are the people that are struggling, and fighting to survive, and yes... some dont' even have $20 leftover at the end of the month to eat, let alone buy a CD.

No DRM doesn't stop any form of "casual piracy". Nope, not at all. If you believe that crap, then you are a complete moron (and are completely out of touch with reality).

Even a monkey could use Napster, so don't tell me that your friends are that dumb that they can't even turn on a computer, or figure out how to type in a few words like the title of their favorite song. So the problem is NOT torrents, and NOT piracy, but the problem is lowering the prices, and removing the DRM.

Give me a song that I can put on my iPod, and put on my computer, and also burn to a CD and play in my car, and that is what I consider "fair use" of the music. I'll gladly pay 99 cents for it.

Take away all those rights, and then call it "DRM shoved up my arse" and guess what... now I'm back to asking friends to burn me a CD from Napster. That's just a fact of life.

At least if you eliminate the DRM, at least you are making "paying customers" and creating consumers (yes, even out of broke college students that would be willing to pay 99 cents, instead of $20 for a CD). But when you act stupid and crazy, and demand $3,000 for a piece of software, or $50 or $100 for a game, and demand that 1 million copies be sold (so you can roll in the money), that's nothing but human greed.

Don't even tell me for a second that Bungie was "hurting for profits" when Halo 2 (or Halo 3) was released. Are you kidding me? People were lined up for miles, and pre-ordering the game months (or even a year) in advance.

No,the world isn't a bunch of criminals and pirates as you like to make people believe. People are inherently good, and want to do the "right thing" (if you let them).

Offering to sell someone in a third world country a copy of Microsoft Windows for $189 (when their average salary is about 35 cents an hour) is just a bit stupid, and shows how "out of touch with reality" some of these software companies really are.

Sure, offer them Adobe for $3,000 a copy, and see how many bite. Please don't make me laugh.

Now go back and offer everyone in China a copy for 99 cents a copy (that they can download via a legal torrent) and watch how quickly the networks are overloaded (and how fast 4 billion dollars ends up in your bank account).

Give people a choice. Offer them the boxed retail version (with printed manuals) for $30, or offer them the download version (with manuals in PDF format) for 99 cents. I guarantee that 95% of the people will take the online version for 99 cents.

The other 5% will gladly pay the $30 to have the manuals, but either way the consumer will be happy, and the company will bring in windfall profits.

Instead software companies cater to ONLY the rich, and they could care less about the poor, lower income, or even the broke college students that are eating ramen noodles, and you're wondering why they aren't paying $3,000 for their Adobe AutoCAD software for school.

Please don't be dumb and ignorant. Maybe you've been sniffing the glue for way too long, or maybe you are so filthy rich that you are out of touch with reality, but wake up and smell the coffee.

Make software cheap, and affordable, and remove the DRM, and just sell it to the masses.

Nobody will pirate something they can download (virus free) for 99 cents.

None of my friends would even consider downloading anything off of Napster or Kazaa after iTunes started offering affordable music (for 99 cents).

Nobody wants to even bother wasting their time anymore.

If software companies did the same with software, and movies... then it would be the same way. Who would waste their time when they can download a game for 99 cents online? Have it in a few minutes via a bit-torrent download (that they can pay for, like iTunes).

You check the website, you pay your 99 cents, it gives you a little torrent link to click on, and it shows the hash mark of the file (so you can check the MD5 hash to make sure the file you get is the same as that online. You get a quick download, and you enjoy your game. The 99 cents goes directly to the author, and everyone is happy.

The whole problem with piracy is now solved. Sony DRM is now out of business, and the RIAA and MPAA are both out of business, and have nothing more to ***** and complain about.

The whole piracy issue is solved, and the world can have peace.

Yes, it really is that simple. Don't screw the consumers. Charge only what the market is willing to pay, and give the product to the masses (not just the elite few/rich who can afford the hefty price).

You make more money (as iTunes has proven) by selling to the millions then you do by selling to the thousands.

You can make a half a million dollars by selling a couple thousand copies at $50 a copy. Or you can sell 3 million copies at 99 cents each, and walk away with $3 Million (and totally abolish even the thought of piracy). Even among the broke college students, name one college student that wouldn't pay 99 cents for a clean 'virus free' torrent file, that they could download, and register legally, and own... for just 99 cents.

iTunes has proven that it works. Amazon.com, and others are beginning to jump on board. As more and more software is offered digitally (with no DRM) and affordable prices, then more and more consumers are paying for it, and walking away from piracy.

I don't mind paying for a game (or two), and I want to reward the artists for their work, but at the same time... I don't want to get shafted as a consumer by any DRM.

If I have "no right" to any "non-DRM'd" software, then I guess EA, and other software developers have "no right" to my money. Plain and simple.

In 1986 software didn't have any DRM's on it. Yet, consumers still bought software. Strange, huh?

The whole argument behind DRM is based on falicy. There is NO TRUTH behind the DRM argument. It's only a marketing ploy by Sony (and the RIAA/MPAA) to push more DRM, and make more money.

DRM doesn't resolve the problem. The problem is the DRM, and the problem is the RIAA and MPAA. Get rid of the RIAA, and get rid of the MPAA, and abolish DRM, and suddenly you will have free artists posting their original work to iTunes directly, and getting paid 17 cents per song, or per download directly.

There are millions of people selling songs, software, plugins, widgets, and various things on iTunes (and Amazon.com) right now as we speak.

Don't tell me that people don't want to pay. There is no such thing as "innocent" piracy, and no such thing as "casual piracy". The plain and simple truth is that DRM doesn't work, and that is a proven fact, and that artists/authors just need to accept that, and learn to post their content (DRM free) on places like iTunes, and cross their fingers and hope that people do the "right thing" and they "click and buy".

Many artists took a "leap of faith" and were completely surprised by the overwhelming response they got from people that WANTED to pay for music (on iTunes). At 99 cents a song, people were lining up to download, and pay to legally own their music.

You want to argue that we don't own our software? You want to argue that we have "no right" to own our software (DRM free) then I could easily argue that they have no right to own my money.

They can have their DRM, and I'll keep my money. I'm not paying for DRM. Plain and simple. If they won't sell to me DRM free, then I won't buy. Plain and simple.

Pirates will continue to pirate, and college students will continue to download, and the problems will get worse and worse, until finally someone admits that DRM doesn't work, and agrees to just lower their prices, post the software online (available for 99 cents a download on iTunes, or Amazon.com) and learn to just accept it. Don't fight it, don't fight technology, just accept it.

DRM is silly nonsense that doesn't work. Give up the stupidity, and just embrace technology, and embrace bit torrent, and learn to just make money on it (legally).

Sell your software torrents for 99 cents, with a license key (that can only be used by one computer at a time). See how many people line up to pay the 99 cents to own legal and licensed software.

See what happens, I dare you to try it. Give it a shot, and as a consumer... I can tell you that is what will make you the millions.

Not screwing consumers, but instead feeding everyone (not just the rich or just the privileged). Even a person making 35 cents an hour in China can afford a 99 cent software download. The pirates and boot leggers would be out of business, and they couldn't even copy/produce boot leg CD's or DVD's (and make a profit doing it) for 99 cents a disk.

The whole piracy system would collapse, and those pirates would go find something else to do with their time. Maybe go pirate some cable television, or something else that they feel is too expensive to pay for.

That's what drive's piracy. It's supply and demand (and cost). Money drives people to piracy. (Money, and foolish things like DRM).

Stop shoving DRM down people's throats, and begin offering 99 cent downloads, and watch piracy come to a complete standstill.
0 Votes
+ -
DRM on a video game?!?!?!???
streetlogics 25th Sep 2008
The fact that they chose to use a DRM program is absolutely insanse. DRM should stay in the realm where it's necessary; DVD's and CD's. Software and video games should never have DRM systems. In this day with services like Steam and other similar options, there should be no reason why this insanity continues to happen. A game Giant such as EA should have setup a client/server architecture and made an internet connection required to activate the product, period, end of story. But they didn't, and now they will have to suffer the consequences of punishing their loyal customers, all the while the pirates whom they are trying to stop have easily hacked their way around it anyways.
0 Votes
+ -
STEAM is DRM
voska1 25th Sep 2008
It just also happen to have some nifty little benefits along with that I like. I love the fact I can install the game with out the CDs seeing as one died and I like how I can buy games online. Also STEAM allow me to install the game anywhere and play it.
0 Votes
+ -
Steam Spore still installs SecuROM, though.
D. W. Bierbaum 25th Sep 2008
I don't think Steam warns you of this in advance, either.
0 Votes
+ -
Spore isn't on Steam, is it?
Hallowed are the Ori 25th Sep 2008
At least, not yet, is it?
0 Votes
+ -
You're right. My bad. It's Crysis Warhead...
D. W. Bierbaum 26th Sep 2008
As well as BioShock. The article on SecuROM I read, included talk about Crysis Warhead and steam, and I got confused even more than usual.

Thanks for catching that.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
rhabkirk@... 25th Sep 2008
Thank you for the information. My daughter wants to
get Sims 3 and with this kind of DRM it will not
happen. As it is she has all the Sims 2 patches add
ons etc and 3 major ones will not work.
0 Votes
+ -
An actual lost sale due to DRM from conscientious objector
gigglypuff 25th Sep 2008
I am another of the conscientious objectors. I have purchased many games over the years (Doomx, HL&HL2, Crysis, FarCry, OrangeBox, Area51, Battlezone 1&2, etc.) and was looking forward to SPORE for over 2 years.

After reading about the rediculously intrusive DRM, I'm gonna pass on that game. I'm dissapointed that EA decided to take the stupid way out. I will not buy the game until the DRM is removed and I will not pirate the software since I actually believe in paying for my software.

So EA has a case of an actual lost sale due to the DRM used on this game.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
legalista 25th Sep 2008
I agree. They should not just be counting pirated copies as lost sales - they should be counting people like me and other posters to this blog that will not buy the product (or download an illegal copy) because of DRM. I was really looking forward to buying the game, but I will not buy it because of DRM.

I would bet they are losing more sales due to customers who do not want a DRM'ed product than they are losing to pirates. Pirates would likely never purchase the product, and therefore it is hard to imagine how EA would justify their being counted as "lost sales". However, people who are potential customers that are not purchasing the product because of DRM are the true "lost sales".

Sighhh..... when will they ever learn?
0 Votes
+ -
POPULISM IS ALIVE AGAIN....poor Corporate America
Teyecoon 30th Sep 2008
With talks of corporate bailouts all over the news, people are finally realizing that they don't have to submit to the corporate empires and their draconian rules. The people have the power but only if they're willing to use it and while pirating is one form of dissent, the most powerful way to request a change is to withhold the lifeblood of corporations by refusing to buy their product and letting them know why. Power to the little people through activism is reborn!

Unfortunately, I recently bought Bioshock on Steam so if it has this DRM as some have said here then I guess they backdoored me...damn scoundrels. I haven't played it yet so I wonder if Steam accepts returns?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: EA Spore backlash could help end DRM
Kuanbyr 25th Sep 2008
I was really looking forward to this game. But with the way the DRM works on the game, I am going to give it a miss. I really don't like being punished for being honest and purchasing a game instead of pirating it. How come the pirates get to play a clean game, and those of us that buy it get all the crap put onto it? Companies need to learn that DRM does not slow a pirate down, all it does is hurt those of us that part with our money to purchase it.
0 Votes
+ -
We need to fix copyright, too
henrik@... 25th Sep 2008
It's good to see public awareness about DRM, which is just
a control-freak abuse of technology, making a difference.
Voting by Amazon is surely a new invention.

But then, there's a bigger target around, namely the utterly
draconic copyright laws. Not only has Disney forced the
originally sensible 14 years of copyright protection into an
absolutely non-sensical 70 + authors' life period. By
means of international conventions, this absurdity has
been forced upon citizens worldwide.

Grand works by authors long dead are protected - not to
the benefit of the authors, obviously. Originally, putting
the work to the public domain was the return the author
would give for the benefit of copyright protection, but that
right of the citizens has long been forgotten.

There is so much useful material out here, so much that
deserves to be distributed, used and inspire others, for the
good of society at large. Yet, it remains locked up under
draconic and meaningless legislation. And when citizens
revolt by their feet against this stupidity, the law and
enforcement are strengthened through the RIAA / MPAA
lobbies, with only very few (EFF being a fine example)
standing up for the citizen.

One way to reform copyright would be to model patent
legislation. Under such a scheme, copyright of a work
would require registration, and possibly payment of a
minor fee. Perhaps for five years. Extensions would require
further payment. In case of non-payment, any copyrighted
work would fall into the public domain. Ideally the
payments would cover the expenses incurred to enforce
the protection, relieving the taxpayers of thus undue
expense that really belongs with the copyright holders, not
with the taxpayers.

Lots of rather trivial material, such as news broadcasts or
entertainment shows, would probably fall out of copyright
fairly fast, and be available to anyone seeking to use it for
whatever purpose they see fit. Which, while possibly not
ideal for Big Business, would be good for citizens and
society.
0 Votes
+ -
Whoa!
thx-1138_@... 28th Sep 2008
Just back your *over-kill* truck up!

I was with you up to: "... It's good to see public awareness about DRM, which is just a control-freak abuse of technology ..."

But after that, well, you're basically advocating "open slather" on all things copyright. You're joshin' right??? No?!? Now look, no one in their *right mind* here is trying to take things to the opposite extreme here but you by the sounds of it.

Did we just begin a new debate about removing the rights of copyright owners??? NO, i didn't think so!
The real issue is getting some sanity back - which is exactly where this new DRM/SecuROM debacle isn't!

The current situation with the latest permutation of EA's DRM is that it has a "carpet-bomb effect", whereby it not only targets the game-crackers BUT more importantly *maims* (and *often kills*) innocents (i.e. legitimate, paying customers).

*Any DRM* that basically nullifys or restricts the legitimate use of a goods or service is not only an
insult to the legitimate, law-abiding and *paying public* but is also the business equivalent of "shooting yourself in the foot".

EA, if nothing else, *had to have known* two things prior to their decision to go the SecuROM route (c/w the limited number of installs restriction).

1) SONY's prior experiences regarding 'public distaste' and legitimate end-user disapproval - through well publicised and world-wide media reports

AND

2) That they had to expect *some sort of negative public reaction* to the restrictions imposed under the new DRM method.

I'll give you the heads-up: if they didn't know either of those TWO things; ignored EITHER of those two things; or just plain *couldn't give a rat's @$$* about either of those two things, then ... pal, EA (or other bunch of klutzes looking of heading down that 'slippery slope') has got bigger problems to worry about than the game-cracking-community.

Phrases like, "EA post fourth successive quarter loss", "EA announces voluntary liquidation" or better still "EA can't give away games at MIT Student Tech' Day!!!", spring to mind ...

Now that i've made the 'spelled it out' for you, try thinking just a little bit harder next time about what your suggestions entail. Until you're willing to find an alternative source of income - other than monies raised through the sale and legitimate distribution of copyright owner's material - put a sock in it and keep away from your keyboard!

Regards
0 Votes
+ -
Whoa what?
Teyecoon 30th Sep 2008
What's wrong with his idea of amending copyright laws? They used to be established for a reasonable amount of time but were changed due to corporate lobbying like all rules [not unlike bank deregulation and we all know where that has gotten us] to an extremely long period of time. He's simply pointing out that any company like Disney who needs to hold on to this copyright to sustain their business for an extended period of time should have to pay the government for the right to an extension as opposed to the current state of the system where all copyrights are extended by default. This would be a good income source for the government and free up copyrights, where the original copyrighter doesn't care or make any money from his copyright, to go into the public domain where they might benefit society in some other form or fashion. These additional "extension" funds would go a long way to helping clear up and support some of these government offices that support the idea of making money from original works. It might even provide a creative boost to the overall economy for the works that get released into the public domain. So what is your issue? If I have to pay to renew my drivers license, why shouldn't copyright holders have to pay to renew copyrights?
0 Votes
+ -
Another great idea sir! Time to abolish DMCA and amend the copyright laws
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"If I have to pay to renew my drivers license, why shouldn't copyright holders have to pay to renew copyrights? "


Yep, very good points. I'm definitely onboard. This is making much more sense. It's a good source of revenue for the government, and there is absolutely no reason why these Copyright holders are riding on the tails of the American taxpayers. Let them file, give them 5 years, after that it gets tossed in public domain, or they file for an extension.

It will create a big business model (for lawyers, and the government) and create additional revenue and that revenue can be used to sustain and enforce the system. That way all this nonsense doesn't fall on the heads of the taxpayer (like it does now).

You want a copyright, you file for one. You pay the fees, fill out the paperwork, and wait your turn. You get your five years, and it would be good for the economy, and those works that fall into public domain suddenly can get posted on websites (for streaming HD content, and video on demand) and overall it would be VERY good for society.

Yep, look at what the mortgage/bank deregulation has done to our economy. The current copyright system is broken, and all the corporate lobbying has really turned this country on it's head.

Dump the DMCA, and dump DRM rights, and abolish all that stuff. Eliminate/Re-work the current copyright system, and turn it into more of a "patent" file system. I'd start off by dropping all Copyrights in 2 years. Give everyone time to file their paperwork, and tell them it need to be filed and turned in before December 31, 2009 and if not by 2010 the copyright expires (and goes into public domain).

Then give out a 5 year copyright, and let them file for an extension (and pay the applicable fees to the government) and let it generate some money for the government to help offset the costs of the "copyright system" and also generate some income for enforcement, and support the government offices that support the idea of making money from original works, and it would give the economy a creative boost, and the "extension" funds would go a long way in helping to support these government offices.

If the original copyrighter doesn't care after 5 years, then just let it lapse, and let it enter public domain. It makes sense, and the government would benefit, the American people would benefit, and our whole society would greatly benefit.

If Companies like Disney want to hold their Copyright for extended periods of time, then let them register, fill out the extension paperwork, and pay for it. I agree, they should have to pay the government for the right to an extension.

Now we're finally making sense, and I'm all about amending the Copyright laws. They used to be established for a reasonable amount of time, but all this silly nonsense due to corporate lobbying, and really screwed up our whole system. Abolish the DMCA, abolish any DRM, and move back to amending the copyright laws. Change it to 5 years, and let them file the paperwork and pay the fees (just like a patent) and it will stop a lot of the silliness that we are seeing today.
0 Votes
+ -
Yep, you hit the nail right on the head!!
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"We need to fix copyright, too"

Henrik, you've hit the nail right on the head. Now you are speaking my language. We've given the power and control to the big entities, and they've kicked us around like soccer balls for the past 20 years or so, and now it's time to "rethink" all this, and maybe we need to just back the truck up a bit, and relook at all those "fair use" clauses (that the original copyright act includes) and abolish the DMCA, and go back to a 5 year copyright (instead of a 14 year copyright) and move into something more similar to the patent laws. I completely agree. That makes much more sense, and it eliminates all this stupidity, and "iron fist" Mother Russia crap, where the big businesses are kicking the public around like soccer balls, and having the RIAA and MPAA crawl up our tails.

I agree, limit it to 5 years, make them re-apply, and toss it into the public domain.

All the paperwork, and keeping up with registrations would keep the lawyers busy, and give them work to do, and they won't be out screwing with civilians, and hunting us down like dogs, or messing with broke college students and at least all this stupidity will finally get under control.

The RIAA and MPAA have swung the pendulum way too far to the right, now it's time we swing it way back to the left (where it's supposed to be) and take all this silly nonsense "rights" that these people seem to think they have, and abolish that crap. Toss the whole system, and move towards a new "5 year copyright system" (identical to the patent system) and let each person fill out the proper paperwork, and pay the appropriate fees, and apply for a copyright. The copyright stands for 5 years, after which time it falls into public domain, or they can try to extend it, and pay additional fees, and in the long run this would be best for the American people.

It would bring "fair use" back to the people, and stop all the rediculous insanity that we are seeing in America today with cable providers, and the RIAA and MPAA and everyone whining about the DMCA and all this silly nonsense.

Copyright holders seem to think they rule the world right now. Abolish it all, and start from scratch. Abolish the DMCA (that hasn't worked at all, and has done nothing but hamper our technology), so abolish the DMCA, and abolish any form of DRM, and go back to a 5-year "patent-like" system for Copyright.

Include "fair use" clauses (allowing software/documents to be copied, quoted, or used for educational purposes, private and personal use, and various other clauses). So that we can store a football game on our Tivo, without fear of being a "criminal" or "pirate" or any of the silly nonsense.

Let the copyright holders pay the payments, and file the proper paperwork, and file for extensions, and ideally the payments will cover the expenses to enforce the protection, and everything works itself out. The tax payers win, the financial burden rests on the copyright holders, and not the tax payers, and anything that falls out of copyright after 5 years becomes public domain.

It's a win-win situation for the American people, and it's good for the citizens and good for society. It protects the artist's copyrighted works for 5 years, and doesn't turn into some crazy insane 70+ year draconian system, where the artist is dead, but the copyright still exists. Doesn't make any sense at all, but the rich mongers try to line their pockets, and screw the American people as hard as they can.

Give them 5 years, after that... public domain. If they want to file for an extension, let them pay the money, and fill out the paperwork, and see what happens. Leave it up to the examiners to determine. If denied, then toss it into the public domain, and do what's right for the American people.

This whole system has gotten completely out of control, and it costs the tax payers way too much money in wasted tax money (in enforcement) and wasted court costs, and millions of wasted tax dollars, while the RIAA and MPAA play their stupid games and chase little college students making a mockery of the whole judicial system, and trying to shake a few pennies out of some broke kids pockets. This system needs to just be struck down, and reworked. It's broken. This is not what the original founding fathers intended, and we definitely need some copyright reform, and need to abolish the DMCA. Get rid of DRM, and bring back copyright reform.
0 Votes
+ -
SecuROM supplies an uninstaller ...
msanto00 Updated - 25th Sep 2008
while I agree SecuROM is a pain, there is an uninstaller you can download from their site. On the other hand ... why should you have to? Read this post: http://technologyexpert.blogspot.com/2008/09/spores-drm-earns-ea-lawsuit.html
0 Votes
+ -
That's half the battle.
Teyecoon 30th Sep 2008
AFAIK, that still doesn't allow you to play the game 5 years from now when you've likely run out of reinstalls or their verification servers are no longer online to permit additional installations. Usually, when you remove DRM like SecuROM, you remove the ability to play the game at all so this isn't necessarily a solution unless EA/SecuRom will offer a future version that removes the DRM and patches the game to run without it.

A DRM like this really hurts a game like Spore that would seemingly have an appeal for future replay ability many years down the road.
0 Votes
+ -
Yep, makes perfect sense...
DRM-HATER 29th Oct 2008
"A DRM like this really hurts a game like Spore that would seemingly have an appeal for future replay ability many years down the road."

Yep, I still play some of my original Sim City games (Sim City 2000) and early games. Spore seems like it would have a very long life (similar to "The Sims") but that life is shortened/diminished by the DRM, and the DRM really hurts/destroys the life of the game.

Abolish DRM, abolish the DMCA, and abolish current copyright law, and just give people 2 years to file for a "copyright patent". It's good for 5 years, and then if you don't file for an extension, it gets tossed into the public domain.

Charge fees for a copyright, and charge fees for a renewel, and use that income to help sustain the government system. It generates income, and at least relieves the burden from the taxpayers.
0 Votes
+ -
GET RID OF DRM
chaz15 25th Sep 2008
enough said!!!!!!!!

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

Blog Roll

Blog Archive

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix