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Zero Day

Ryan Naraine, Emil Protalinski and Dancho Danchev

Operating system choice does not equal security

By | June 2, 2010, 10:43am PDT

Summary: Steve Manzuik: Your operating system choice does not equal security. I cannot put that any more simply than that. If your company employs experts in Linux then it makes sense to standardize on Linux. If your company employs expertise in Windows — rolling out Linux, OSX, or any other operating system is asking for problems.

Guest editorial by Steve Manzuik

Yesterday while some of us in the USA were enjoying a day off Google made the news with this article in the Financial Times stating that they are moving away from Microsoft Windows due to security concerns.  My first reaction was to question why a company with as many smart brains as Google would make such a misguided decision.  That was, of course, before I actually read the entire article.

To steal from the FT.com article:

“We’re not doing any more Windows. It is a security effort,” said one Google employee.

“Many people have been moved away from [Windows] PCs, mostly towards Mac OS, following the China hacking attacks,” said another.

follow Ryan Naraine on twitterI cannot comment directly on the China hacking incident because I was involved in various meetings with unnamed companies and unnamed forensics experts on the so-called “China hacking incident” but I can comment on the stupidity of this clearly knee jerk reaction.  Your operating system choice does not equal security.  I cannot put that any more simply than that.  If your company employs experts in Linux then it makes sense to standardize on Linux.  If your company employs expertise in Windows — rolling out Linux, OSX, or any other operating system is asking for problems.

[ SEE: Google ditching Windows over security makes little sense ]

Obviously in Google’s specific case one could argue that they have more expertise in Linux.  So the switch from Windows isn’t a security concern its common sense and makes me wonder why they would have had Windows boxes in the first place.  This quote from an unnamed employee says it best;

Employees said it was also an effort to run the company on Google’s own products, including its forthcoming Chrome OS, which will compete with Windows. “A lot of it is an effort to run things on Google product,” the employee said. “They want to run things on Chrome.”

I could care less what OS Google or any company standardised on.  The reason I felt the need to comment on this was not because I think Google is making a mistake but because the press is taking some comments from “anonymous employees” out of context and turning this in to something it’s not and helping perpetuate a huge Information Security Myth.

The myth I speak of: ”Switching to Mac OSX or Linux will make you more secure.”

Corporations get hacked, in fact they get hacked much more than we read in the press.  Sometimes those hacks come via a “zero day” type attack and others via a known issue that the corporation failed to patch for.  This is the reality of running a business in the Internet age.

[ SEE: Microsoft plays defense against Google Windows migration report ]

Let me paraphrase what was said by myself and other “experts” back in February 2010:

Every operating system has its advantages and disadvantages in security but no one is a silver bullet, more secure, option.  Some represent a higher risk than others but in reality you are only as secure as your ability to administer the chosen operating system.  This means that if your organization has IT expertise in Linux then you are probably more secure running Linux than you are an operating system that they do not have the same level of expertise in.  The same goes for companies that have Windows expertise, while I am sure that a good Windows Administrator can find his way around alternative operating systems, I would not want that Administrator to be responsible for securing an operating system that he is not proficient in.

So while one could argue that in general Windows has been the more riskier operating system to run I would actually counter that argument by saying that while correct in the past it is this level of exposure and risk that has caused great improvements in Windows security.  Not to mention the fact that if you are Google you have a very large target painted on you and no matter what operating system you decide to run you are and probably always will be a target of attackers.  Shift your operating system and attackers will shift their attack methods.

Based on available public information on the Aurora attack the compromise may have come via an unpatched Internet Explorer vulnerability and was a targeted attack.  The second part of that sentence is actually the more important one here.  TARGETED ATTACK.  This means that when, and not if, Aurora the sequel happens it will come via an unpatched vulnerability in whatever operating system happens to be in use at the target company.

It is really too bad that the press in this particular case did not reach out to real security experts and get actual facts around what your operating system choice means to your security.  In fact the Financial Times article is nothing more than FUD generated by “anonymous” quotes from “anonymous sources”.

The unfortunate part about FUD like this is that all week various executives at other companies will read this article and determine that because the great minds at Google have done this to be “more secure” that they should follow suit.  They will bring in some clueless IT Security Consultant (aka CISSP) who will back up this opinion for the sake of billable time and the poor IT guys will have to do their bidding and will ultimately make their company less secure than it was in the first place.

Rinse, wash, repeat.. the cycle of Information Security Myths trumping actual progress continues…

* Steve Manzuik is currently an independent security consultant working as a Program Manager for Microsoft’s Vulnerability Research program (MSVR).  With almost 20 years of IT and IT Security experience Steve managed the infamous eEye Research Team and has held positions at Juniper Networks, Ernst & Young and IBM Global Services.   When he isn’t on the ice playing hockey, Steve is an occasional blogger at http://hellnbak.wordpress.com and has presented at major security conferences such as Blackhat, Defcon, AusCERT, and PacSec.

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Topics

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues.

Disclosure

Ryan Naraine

The most important disclosure is of my employment with Kaspersky Lab as a member of the global research and analysis team. Kaspersky Lab is a global company specializing in anti-malware and secure content management technologies. I do not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Ryan Naraine

Ryan Naraine is a journalist and social media enthusiast specializing in Internet and computer security issues. He is currently security evangelist at Kaspersky Lab, an anti-malware company with operations around the globe. He is taking a leadership role in developing the company's online community initiative around secure content management technologies.

Prior to joining Kaspersky Lab, Ryan was Editor-at-Large/Security at eWEEK, leading the magazine's and Web site's coverage of Internet and computer security issues and managing the popular SecurityWatch blog, covering the daily threats, vulnerabilities and IT security technologies. He also covered IT security, hacker attacks and secure content management topics for Jupiter Media's internetnetnews.com.

Ryan can be reached at naraine SHIFT 2 gmail.com. For daily updates on Ryan's activities, follow him on Twitter.

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Comments

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This should be required reading for everyone here. If only a few people get it, it would be nice.

I've used Windows since 3.1, and OS X since 10.3. I haven't had any problems with either. The last (and only) virus I got was from an infected disk - using DOS.
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Clearly there is no problem then
Richard Flude Updated - 2nd Jun 2010
"I've used Windows since 3.1, and OS X since 10.3..."

Back in the real world we have millions of computers infested with malware, overwhelmingly windows PCs.

Manzuik is right, switching OS is no magic fix. Sophisticated, targeted attacks against a company are likely to be successful against any OS. It can reduce the effect of unsophisticated attacks.

Also his position ignores the advantages of a Linux distribution (package management system, total control over installed packages) by correctly stating all OSes will have vulnerabilities. NB windows is moving in this direction for future releases for the same reason.

Staff is not an issue. Get rid of the MCSEs and staff your company with real knowledgeable IT people. You'll find regardless of OS your IT operations will improve.
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Hey Richard, come back when you have
John Zern 2nd Jun 2010
something of value or interset to say.

Staff is not an issue. Get rid of the MCSEs and staff your company with real knowledge IT people. You'll find regardless of OS you IT operations will improve

If that's the best you can come up with as an insult to those trained in MS products, you're a bigger fool then many believed

I would think that most people view you as someone on the outside looking in, in reference to IT, so please come back when you have a better understanding of things.
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Yeah, I know, truth hurts
OS Reload 2nd Jun 2010
@John Zern

time has come to face the fact that your Microsoft certifications won't get you far. That must hurt.
  • Flagged
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Funny...
msalzberg 2nd Jun 2010
@Richard Flude

I thought I was in the real world. I've used my computers on-line and off-line, I've swapped data with floppies (5 1/4 and 3 1/2), via USB drives and over networks, both wired and wireless. I've used these computers at work for mission-critical applications, and I've used them at home for fun.

That's the real world on the planet on which I live.
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@John Zern
Richard Flude Updated - 2nd Jun 2010
I assume when you say "better understanding of things" you mean demonstrably wrong information like your post yesterday:

http://www.zdnet.com/tb/1-82509-1577947?tag=talkback-river;1_82509_1577947

A tragic time for the MCSE. Beholden to a stagnant platform under assault, irrelevant to the next generation, and staffed with people so use to clicking their way out of trouble they're unable to move to alternatives.

So insecure in their future they find themselves clutching onto stories published by MS employees telling them everything is OK.

Back in the real world, those that publish under their real names are meeting with customers so frustrated with their existing windows infrastructure (on Monday it was a digital signage network, the week before retail cart platform on windows ce, ...) they're actively evaluating alternatives. But don't worry John, I'm on the "outside";-)
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@Richard Flude

Actually, it's quite simple. People who know what they're talking about accept that all the current main operating systems have their good and bad points. People who don't make up nonsense and rely on blogs for 'evidence'.

People like you, Richard.
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Ehhh
TheLightcosine Updated - 3rd Jun 2010
@Richard Flude
Richard, you are right in some of your points but there is a problem. you are approaching this from a home user perspective, and this is really an Enterprise conversation. Yes Linux has less of a target profile, so there are less prebuilt malware for it, but it still exists. Heck jsut look back through this blog's history you don't have to go back but a few months to see articles about Linux worms. As for package management, any enterprise worth it's salt has solutions and processes for this. Whether it's a Lumension, BigFix, or just SCCM and some dedicated staff. Patches have to be tested before put into production in an Enterprise environment, and then deployed in a controlled manner across the entire enterprise, not just individual machines. The fact is, when you get to an Enterprise level Windows and certain Distros of linux are pretty equal.

Just to play the devil's advocate (I am a big Debian supporter actually) I would suggest that Linux works against you a bit in enterprise Security for a few reasons. One is the smaller pool of expertise. Another is the availability of compatible security products(getting better all the time though), and finally is the obscurity factor. It's pretty easy to keep up on the latest MS vulns. You have to work for it a bit more with a Linux distros.

I also have to say the generalisation about MCSEs is also pretty cheap. sure it's fun to take the piss out of them, but there are plenty of MCSEs out there who are incredibly smart people. You will always have the poseurs, but we have plenty of those in Linux land too.

P.S. I primarily work in AppSec and the average time from discovery of a vuln to pwn is waaaaaaay faster on LAMP than up-to-date IIS running .NET . I attribute this to the very thing that makes Linux so attractive: the power and choice it gives it's users/admins. Sometimes giving admins that much choice isn't the right thing to do.
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FUD!!!!!
Cylon Centurion 2nd Jun 2010
@msalzberg , don't you want to join in on the fun? WINDOWS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! DUMP WINDOWS AND WE CAN REMOVE THE WORD SECURITY FROM THE DICTIONARY! Right? wink

All nonsense aside, I do applaud your honesty. Securing a Windows network is a non hassle, and I'm surprised the "Geniuses" over at Google made such a boneheaded move to continue using IE6 and Windows XP in the wild.
@NStalnecker

Although I prefer OS X, I'm a big fan of Windows 7, and have stated so publicly here on ZDNet. We use XP on our Windows computers at work, but we don't change OSs in the middle of a project on mission critical computers.
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@msalzberg

Somehow, I don't think you are using IE6 though. Using XP with a modern browser such as Firefox (With Adblock and NoScript) can go a long way security wise. But IE6 is just asking for it. Using IE6 in 2010 says a lot about your security practices.
@NStalnecker

Once our mission critical computers are set up and running, they are taken off-line. Isolation provides pretty good security. Until then, no ActiveX, no Flash, trusted sites only. These machines are for work, not fun.
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Amazing how ZDNet keeps on pumping out articles aimed at laundering the reputation of Windows.
@OS Reload Amazing that you continue to read and response to ZDNet articles.
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these ABMer idiots keep coming back to post their ususal drivel and insults against MS's products and users.

Someone said "security starts with OS Choice" which I guess I respond to by saying "which is why we don't use Linux or Apple products here"

happy
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@John Zern

Funny, this is the reason I dumped windows years ago and continue to install more linux systems than windows systems. Eventually, most of the few windows systems eventually get converted to linux, so in a sense I paid double for those.

When you learn more about computers, please come back to the discussion with something meaningful. Sheesh......
So to you, Ubuntu's method of applying digitally signed installs and keeping a trusted well curated software repository is irrelevant to improve security.

You are completely wrong my friend. Security starts with OS choice.

With 'good guys' such as yourself advocating such lousy security practices who needs the bad guys?
@OS Reload: You can champion them all day long but in the end people will continue to download software outside of repositories. As such they'll continue to be subject to trojan infections.
@ye

In the case of Linux not only it the tech on offer top notch but the culture is also top notch and has ALWAYS been aware of security issues.
@OS Reload: nt
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@OS Reload

If a user continues with his or her bad habits to download everything from untrusted sources such as ABC website, then OS choice means nothing. It would be all too simple to set up a download for whatever OS you are running to infect said OS.

SECURITY STARTS WITH EDUCATION, NOT BLINDLY SWITCHING PLATFORMS.
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What they download isn't the problem
Richard Flude 2nd Jun 2010
Letting them execute it is. I don't know why this is still permitted in managed it environments.
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What they download isn't the problem
Richard Flude 2nd Jun 2010
Letting them execute it is the problem. I don't know why this is still permitted in managed it environments.
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Very good point.
ye Updated - 2nd Jun 2010
@Richard Flude: Letting them execute it is the problem. I don't know why this is still permitted in managed it environments.

I wondered this myself. Never understood why companies allow their Windows users to run with administrative privileges. Those that don't have little to worry about security (and problem)wise.
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@OS Reload

Roll up, roll up!

Another multiple series of posts from a banned user under a new account!

See how he flaps!

See how he says nothing constructive at all!

See how pointless and empty his life must be to do this!

Go away. You bore me.
The linux crowd just doesn't care,they will say anything,do anything to get people to switch. And making them think that linux is immune to viruses,malware is there biggest lie,but not the only lie that's for sure.
@Stan57

Well, you do what you just did. Nough said.
@OS Reload Please don't pretend to assume the role of "the linux crowd". You do not represent the community.
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@Stan57 can you site credible evidence that Linux is just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows? or are you just saying that because you heard it somewhere?..and while you're at it, enlighten us with a list of malware for linux as well.

Cheers
@tripolitan: ...Linux? Or did you just read that somewhere?

The fact is Windows and Linux use a very similar security model (unless SELinux is enabled). They both function in a similar manner from a process perspective. Aside from implementation differences the underlying models are almost identicle.
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@ye

Similar... maybe, but the file systems are different, the way applications are installed is different, the true user space separation and multi-user capability of Linux is still better than Windows.

Windows is only recently coming of age in the arena of security. Linux was breed from the beginning with security in mind. Based off of Unix (which how ironic that Windows 7 moved to a more Unix like way of doing things...) which was already well on it's way in security, Linux started out from day one with it in mind.

Also in Linux we have SELinux, AppArmor and Unix security model. We can also remove segments of the core system that are not needed. I know for a fact you cannot remove any parts of the Windows core like you can Linux. Another fail for Windows.

The bottom line is Windows is coming along... finally and after a complete redesign (based off... HAHAHAHA! Unix no less) and is making strides to catch up to the rest of the secure computing world. On this I commend them, but they are still infants in the arena of security. devil
@Linux User 147560: Windows is only recently coming of age in the arena of security. Linux was breed from the beginning with security in mind.

Windows NT 3.1, of which any version of Windows post ME is based on, was built with multi-user and security in mind. It's built into the core of the OS. And, aside from SELinux and AppArmor, is effectively identicle to the UNIX security model.

So please, come join us post 1993...you'll find it's a very nice place.
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@ye would you please help Stan57? my question to his comment was:
can you site credible evidence that Linux is just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows?
Also please site these "facts" that Windows is similar to Linux in terms of security.
To this Linux and Windows user, the difference is measurable and quantifiable just by the amount of viruses and malware that a Windows box traps.
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@tripolitan: can you site credible evidence that Linux is just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows?

The information is out there if you decide you want to educate yourself. Oh, and the word is "cite", not "site".

Also please site these "facts" that Windows is similar to Linux in terms of security.

I already have done so. While I didn't go in depth I gave a high level overview. You're welcome to take that information and do some indepth research to educate yourself if you'd like.

To this Linux and Windows user, the difference is measurable and quantifiable just by the amount of viruses and malware that a Windows box traps.

A common mistake by those who do not understand the security models of the two operating systems.

Here is a quick, high level overview:

They both rely on a user to identify themselves to the system through a unique user ID. Objects (files, folders, processes, etc) have secruity descriptors which define the access to the objects. Both systems evaluate access to objects by searching the security descriptors for the unique user ID and then applying (or not) the permissions defined in the matching security descriptor.

In addition to the unique user ID both systems provide group capability where a user can belong to a group(s) for which access to objects can be controlled in a manner similar to the user ID mentioned above.

Both systems require programs/processes to run under some unique ID and access by/to these objects is controlled in a manner similar to the user ID method mentioned above. A program/process inherents the access of the invoking user (unless altered through some means such as SETUID/SETGID and UAC elevation).

Both systems utilize processes, which as stated above run under a unique ID, which can run in the background (daemons in UNIX, services in Windows), can bind to a network port (TCP or UDP, or other protocols if available), and provide services (such as HTTP, SMTP, POP3, SSH, RDP, etc).

Both systems provide for a super user (root in UNIX, SYSTEM/Administrator in Windows) which can override the security of the system. Though SELinux, AppArmor, or other MAC technologies can be used to change this behavior in UNIX. Windows has a similar, though not as capable, Mandatory Integrity Levels which provide a limited MAC capability in Windows.
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@Stan57

No, I don't want Windows users to switch to Linux! Last thing I want! Then they will bring their stupidity along and start mucking up a great thing! Stay on Windows!! Linux is too hard! You can't install it and it's not compatible with anything out there!!! Stay on Windows!!! devil
@Linux User 147560: No, I don't want Windows users to switch to Linux! Last thing I want! Then they will bring their stupidity along and start mucking up a great thing!

...the users? And if those users were to use Linux that Linux would develop the same issues Windows currently has? That was awful brave of oyu to do that. I never expected to see a Linux adovocate state how fragile Linux is.
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@Linux User 147560

I have to agree, life would be hell if all of those GLI(1) clicking novices would migrate to Linux. Then we would have to deal with the poorly educated masses who `just want it to work`. Like some clown once told me, `Who cares what's under the hood` (of your car) as a reference to people wanting computers to be more like cars. `Just put in the key and drive. ` To me it would matter `what's under the hood` because I am not STUPID enough to put high octane GASOLINE in a DIESEL fueled engine. But I am sure that some @$$clown who `just wants it to work` would; and blow up the fscking engine while he is at it. Explain why USER STUPIDITY is a valid reason for a warranty claim to the dealer/manufacturer.

If you want computers to `just work` then, by all means, STAY WITH WINDOWS!!!! When its `Swiss Cheese` security model get broken, don't come crying., and looking for sympathy. You will not get any from me.

As far as Google is concerned, as others have pointed out, they already have a target painted on their backs. So, why would they care to add the enlarged attack surface that the use of Microsoft products on top of the target they already are??????

BTW, was I the only one that noticed this at the bottom of the article:

"Steve Manzuik is currently an independent security consultant working as a Program Manager for Microsoft?s Vulnerability Research program (MSVR). "

how much spin that makes to the tone of the article is up to the reader to decide for him (or her) self.
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@ye

You missed the sarcasm completely... no surprise there.
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Viruses, yes, so far. Malware, not yet.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 2nd Jun 2010
@Stan57
Show me a SINGLE, one single example of a self replicating self installing self propagating virus for Open Source. The Kaperski "lame proof of concepts" aside, just one. A virus is easier on Windows because it only has to get past a single security vulnerability. On Linux, for example, it must do ALL of the following. (Note:This is why Vista and 7 ARE better, you don't run as admin all the time anymore).

Get downloaded, add execute, then EXPLOIT a vulnerability that allows it to escalate to root. That is HUGE, and not only that, Linux has myriad configurations. Some installs have perl, some don't, some have CUPS active, some don't, then you have all the different flavors, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Suse, Redhat and then different revisions of the same. Contrast this to the heterogeneousness of Windows machines. Build it for one, it works on all.

And on Linux, you have the almost limitless variability of library versions, etc. Seriously, try to install ANY old package on a new distro and more than likely you will get dependency issues.

You really think Virus writers have the skill to overcome that en masse? There is no money. Having to create 78 different flavors of the same malware, find the exploit that spans ALL flavors, etc.

We may someday see a virus that affects Ubuntu 10.0.4 with CUPS 4.3 but ONLY if they didn't upgrade perl from 3.1 and are running kernel XYZ with MadWifi active (the last part being the required exploit) and poof, we have a virus that infected the 458 computers with that configuration of the 33M Ubuntu machines.

And then, within 6 hours, the KERNEL is replaced, removing the exploit and spread to the world, making all that work oh so profitable. This is as opposed to the weeks/months/years at times exploits remain unfixed with a mitigation practice or hack place on top to protect the underlying exploit.

TripleII
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Well Google is full...
mrlinux 2nd Jun 2010
of Linux Expertise seeing as most of their search engine is Linux based, so I would say by adding more Linux machines they are following your advice
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but because the press is taking some comments from ?anonymous employees? out of context and turning this in to something it?s not and helping perpetuate a huge Information Security Myth.

Welcome to ZDNet! Finally someone with some common sense on this Google issue. I agree with almost everything he said except the linux expertise part. That is an oxymoron and I have yet to see a "linux expert". I want to see how Google's developers are going to compile Microsoft Windows applications on their Chrome OS. That is going to be hilarious to watch. Google needs Microsoft Windows, they can't continue to operate without it. I'm betting once the employees get switched over they will moan and complain and Google is going to revert back to Microsoft Windows. I can't wait.
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Sh17 your boss says...
OS Reload Updated - 2nd Jun 2010
"Prepare to enter Damage Control Mode. When the fecal matter collides with the rapidly spinning blades we'll have a hard time keeping this brand clean."

Yeah, I know, you're tired of hearing him say that, old Steve Ballmer is becoming very annoying, always repeating himself.
Google can easily run Linux and still handle Windows development in a virtual machine or the like. The point is that they are ditching Windows for their everyday desktop OS which is probably the best idea ever. Why run something that's over bloated and insecure. Google is making a smart business decision.
Employees said it was also an effort to run the company on Google?s own products, including its forthcoming Chrome OS, which will compete with Windows. ?A lot of it is an effort to run things on Google product,? the employee said. ?They want to run things on Chrome.?

They have to try and do something. How foolish would they look promoting Chrome while using Windows? That sentence there says it all, that it's not about "security" (as their recent span of breeches prove they don't take it seriouslly enough), but instead proving to those they are trying to get to use ChromeOS that it's an OS good enough to run a company on.

Even though from the employee's own words, it's far from it.
Of course the driver expertise counts a lot.
But the article statement can not be true!
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Amen!
Scratchi 2nd Jun 2010
Couldn't agree more with this article. I still think Google announced this publicly just to get on Microsoft's case, I'm sure they're IT dept is not in any big frenzy right now; just a pr stunt happy
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This is a lovely article !! A must read for every linux/apple/google fanboy or anti-MS ppl, because it is totally practical. In fact, I would suggest fanbois to do some research before they comment, just like "OSreload". One of numerous article from a security expert is here: "http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20002317-245.html"
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Obviously
Yagotta B. Kidding 2nd Jun 2010
Operating system selection makes no difference. There really is no security advantage to be had, for instance, from using Microsoft's Common-Criteria certified systems over Win95.

It's all just marketing. Fire anyone who gets caught with an infected or otherwise compromised system and dock them the cost of cleanup. That is the real secret to computer security.
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Good one;-) (NT)
Richard Flude 2nd Jun 2010
NT

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