Spyware Confidential

Larry Dignan, Jason Perlow, Tom Steinert-Threlkeld

Will Windows Vista make spyware a thing of the past?

By | March 20, 2006, 11:03am PST

Summary: CNET published an article on “Spyware-killing Vista” and why Vista’s security features will put anti-spyware companies out of business. Well, almost out of business. Over at Threat Chaos, fellow ZDNet blogger Richard Stiennon says No Way.

CNET published an article on "Spyware-killing Vista" and why Vista’s security features will put anti-spyware companies out of business.  Well, almost out of  business. Over at Threat Chaos, fellow ZDNet blogger Richard Stiennon says No Way

Even if all current Windows users upgrade to Vista, which they won’t for a number of reasons including the hardware requirements for Vista, the spyware pushers will find a way to infect users in spite of Vista’s security features, Windows Defender (anti-spyware) and IE 7. There’s simply too much money being made by spyware and adware companies, botnet masters using backdoors and keyloggers. 

Stiennon notes other reasons why Vista won’t end spyware. I think Stiennon is right. I don’t see spyware going away due to Vista.

I recently did a test of Windows Defender’s ability to detect and remove spyware. Windows Defender did not do as well as 2 of the leading commercial anti-spyware programs. We’ll see in a day or two how well Windows Defender does at blocking spyware — preventing it from getting into the system in the first place.

March 21 update:  Microsoft announced today that the release of Vista for consumers will be delayed until January 2007, so I guess we will have to wait a little longer than previously thought to see how well it stops spyware. Link.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

More from “Spyware Confidential”

Topics

Biography

Suzi Turner is webmaster and owner of SpywareWarrior.com, a comprehensive site that includes a spyware help forum, spyware blog and reviews of anti-spyware software by noted spyware expert Eric L. Howes. Suzi became angry about spyware in 2002 after being infected by a drive-by-download of a browser hijacker and unwanted adware/spyware and decided to help others in the same predicament. In April 2005, Microsoft awarded Suzi its MVP (Most Valued Professional) Award in recognition of her work to help internet users protect their privacy by removing and preventing spyware. Suzi is also a nurse for a national disability management company.

23
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

What?
george_ou 22nd Mar 2006
"Its never the case. Why, because like the other poster said, the best coders on the planet work for the bad guys."

If that's even partially true, the world would already be doomed.

"True Microsoft is one of the bad guys, but they are not the ones we refer to."

Only from a zealot.
0 Votes
+ -
Microsoft just has too much of a user base for malware pushers to ignore. They'll just get smarter at what they do, in spite of Vista. Even I have a few anti-malware tools for my Linux box(rkhunter, chkrootkit, and clamAV), just to be on the safe side.

I'd say the CNET article is just marketing hype for Vista, that's all.
0 Votes
+ -
With the User Access Protection capability in Vista and IE7, it will make it MUCH more difficult to infect. The Sypware industry would have to move to entirely new techniques and would have to mostly resort to social engineering which is much more difficult in IE7.
0 Votes
+ -
...when there's a quick buck to be made.
0 Votes
+ -
I didn't, I'm just stating some facts
george_ou 20th Mar 2006
I never said that Spyware will go away, just that most of the existing techniques for infecting people will be nullified. That doesn't mean new techniques couldn't be developed, just that Vista will be even more difficult to infect than the Mac.

With the Mac, an exploited browser runs with the permission of the user making it possible to key log the root password and copy or delete all user files. With Vista and IE7, you cannot do this because an exploited IE7 will run under a special user account.
0 Votes
+ -
theory and practice
Scott W 20th Mar 2006
whilst this sounds fantastic in theory, it must still stand the test of practice. i've been told A LOT of theory and i've disproved a lot of it through my own experiences. whilst it's true that THEORETICALLY current spyware will become nullified and it will be THEORETICALLY harder to infect a user's PC, don't forget that the best coders and hackers in the world always work for the bad guys. it's a damn sight more profitable.
one last thing, don't underestimate the power of social engineering and don't expect the IE warnings to keep up with the latest sites. look at the current IE popup blocker for proof of that.
0 Votes
+ -
It's not theoretical. I've actually tried to deliberately get infected on Vista in the lab. When I tell you that this works, it's not "THEORETICAL". The difference between IE7 on Vista and IE6 on XP is day and night when it comes to security.

As for social engineering, that works against Firefox and Safari on the Mac. Heck as recent as last year, the Mac OS would auto-download and auto-install widgets. Even today after you apply a patch on a patch on a patch within the last 30 days for the Mac, the Mac finder STILL allows you to masquerade executables as a picture file!
0 Votes
+ -
George...
ExploreMN 21st Mar 2006
I think what they are trying to say is that they are tired of hearing this type of talk come out of Redmond.
Microsoft forever promises that THIS (insert version) of Windows will be bullet proof, more secure, more stable, blah blah blah.
Its never the case. Why, because like the other poster said, the best coders on the planet work for the bad guys. True Microsoft is one of the bad guys, but they are not the ones we refer to.
Sure, Vista will have its day in the sun (or maybe even a week) and then the first strike will hit. Vulnerabilities will be exposed, new methods of attack will be openly revealed, and soon we will be right back where we are today.

No matter how much Microsoft tries, they can't pee on us and tell us its filtered water and expect us to drink.
0 Votes
+ -
What?
george_ou 22nd Mar 2006
"Its never the case. Why, because like the other poster said, the best coders on the planet work for the bad guys."

If that's even partially true, the world would already be doomed.

"True Microsoft is one of the bad guys, but they are not the ones we refer to."

Only from a zealot.
No.

Microsoft relies upon complexity to create it's security. The more complex a system, the easier it is to find a flaw that can be exploited.
0 Votes
+ -
Spyware?
MacGeek2121 20th Mar 2006
I've never heard of spyware on a Mac. Vista is supposed to be
copying a lot of Mac OSX's structure. Why can't they get rid of
spyware? It should VERY illegal to spread spyware, I mean like
jail sentences. They call them PCs, personal computers, not spy-
on-me computers. It's one thing if a business keeps tabs on
their employees, like say email and internet usage, but spying
on people's computers because they went to a web site or
something should be punishable by imprisonment, not some
acceptable form of internet and PC pollution. It's not legal to
bug your neighbors bedroom for your pleasure why should
spyware be legal in any manner at all?
0 Votes
+ -
The main reason
maldain 20th Mar 2006
The main reason there isn't the same level of spyware, malware and viral infections on the MAC is two fold. First MACs hold a small portion of the computing market place. In particular, with OSX the operating system is UNIX based which makes the creation of mal/spy ware an order of magnitude harder.
0 Votes
+ -
Or in the words of Mr. Scott
maldain 20th Mar 2006
The more complex the plumbing the easier it is to plug up the john.
0 Votes
+ -
We will have to wait and see
WiredGuy 20th Mar 2006
Microsoft has promised, but they have to deliver. None of us will really know until 6 months after the official release how well they have succeeded.
As for other anti-spyware vendors - not to worry. Microsoft's new technologies will work only in Vista and it will be the minority version of Windows for 3 or 4 years. All of those installations of 98, 2000 and XP will still need to be protected and cleaned up, so there's lot's of business to be done.
0 Votes
+ -
Clean up
keydesignz 21st Mar 2006
Yeah, I don't think Microsoft will worry about cleaning up anything with older systems, they can't wait to drop support for Windows 98, just like Windows 95. Yet there are still people out there using Windows 3.1. Their main focus is Windows Vista. Windows XP is bloated, buggy and inconsistent code. As for they guy who is talking about that exploit on Mac OS X, that was proven to be bogus anyhow. Most Mac users are not that stupid.
0 Votes
+ -
kill spyware, Spam
snafu-cf 20th Mar 2006
The way to absolutely kill spyware for all time is to provide an "average user" program that will coopt the 'reporting' function of spyware to return the most vicious worms known. When spyware authors get their servers trashed they will quit. It should be possible to make sure mistakes are few and far between.
Spam can be killed by specifying that ALL land grant colleges which have a computer science program spend 'x' man hours per month conducting denial of service attacks on spammers identified by some central authority (the Attorney General???)
A further help for quashing SPAM is to allow all individuals to block a range of servers. For example: 75% OF MY spam ORIGINATES on the RIPE network. One (1) of their server allocations is
[82.0.0.1 to 82.250.250.250] I would like to block this whole range (I neither get nor want e-mail from Europe and Africa) no e-mail program, including "Mail washer" seems to be able to do this. Setting up my own mail server is beyond my pocket book.
help, Help, HELP
or do you just want to screw around discussing these issues????????????????????????????????????
0 Votes
+ -
It may work
keydesignz 21st Mar 2006
It may work, then again, if someone is using a Linux box, or Unix or other, they are impervious to the same malware and spyware. So what is to stop the Author from using this type of machine to generate spyware targeted for Windows? Sending them nasty worms is not going to do anything, especially if they have blockers placed on the server to not accept anything incoming. A decent hardware firewall will block that.
0 Votes
+ -
NO
shraven 21st Mar 2006
I didn't read the article, I haven't reviewed Vista security, but I can say with certainty, the answer to the question raised by the article's headline is: NO.
If you disagree, come back to me a year post Vista release and explain the spyware still circulating.
0 Votes
+ -
That doesn't help
george_ou 21st Mar 2006
Of course Vista and any other operating system will never cure spyware or spam. The question is to what degree it will affect spyware. Then answer is that it will take a significant bite out of spyware.
0 Votes
+ -
What about Mac?
keydesignz 21st Mar 2006
Mac OS X has no spyware. Granted a couple of worms have shown up recently, but still no real effect on a Mac platform. Screw Windows, you suckers can have it! I don't believe that Windows Vista will do anything to stop the plague, nothing Microsoft has created thusfar seems to work properly. Service Pack 2 for Windows XP? Please, what a waste of time.
0 Votes
+ -
Actually George
woot! 21st Mar 2006
We believe it will significantly reduce the amount of spyware. We don't know that it will. Because it is a future event, we don't have any data beyond projections based on testing.

The assumptions may be right on (hopefully) and the spyware situation will be greatly impacted for the better, or the assumptions may be wrong (hopefully not) and the spyware situation will not improve.

It could be both - initially the spyware situation improves, but then the bad guys catch up with the technology.

At this point we don't know for certain. We believe, but we don't know.

Cheers
Other than Shockwave/Flash.............

It seems to me the only real cure are the alternatives... Linux/BSD/Mac/MorphOS/Be/Tron/OS2..etc.......

At least for those who are aware & interested.........
0 Votes
+ -
LazLong, are you fricken serious???
ExploreMN 21st Mar 2006
If you are going to write adware, are you going to target the operating system that sits in almost everyone's office and home...or the little nitch group of computers out there?

If you are going to write spyware such as keylogers and account stealers, are you going to write it for the operating system that sits in almost everyone's office and home...or the little nitch group of computers out there?

Use your brain. If everyone switched to "Linux/BSD/Mac/MorphOS/Be/Tron/OS2..etc" it would cure nothing...it would only put a bandaid on it until the people writing this stuff modified it to target the dominant operating system which, like it or not, is Microsoft Windows.

You want to keep spyware, viruses, adware, and other things off your computer...unplug your internet connection perminantly. Thats the only cure.
0 Votes
+ -
Windows Spyware a waste of time
keydesignz 21st Mar 2006
I used Windows Spyware on my Windows XP box, and it did nothing to stop legitimate spyware. I just use AdAware SE and SpyBot search and destroy. They work in 100% of cases. Microsoft is too big and bloated as a company to focus on these issues properly. They are providing a method in the system to combat spyware and intrusions, but anyone who knows would not bank on using Microsoft's Firewall or Antivirus solutions. You would end up with an unprotected machine dead in the water in no time. I say screw Microsoft's lame ass solutions to security. Never stand up the way Linux and Mac do.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix