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HD DVD returns and kicks Blu-ray to the gutter

By | August 3, 2009, 3:13pm PDT

Just when Blu-ray thought it had clear sailing, a tempest has risen in the East: China Blue Hi-definition Disk (CBHD). Toshiba has licensed its HD DVD to them and it will be the unit world leader in HD optical technology in just 12 months.

Why? The Times Online reports that the CBHD players are outselling Blu-ray in China by 3-1 and the CBHD disks cost a quarter of Blu-ray.

Blu-ray, we hardly knew ye
What happened to Blu-ray’s dominance? Blu-ray’s dominance.

Conceived by Sony at a time when few thought upscaling would succeed, the idea was that HDTVs would require HD content on optical media. Reliving the glory days of DVD adoption they forecast tens of billions in revenue from players and disks, enormous licensing fees and consumer-proof DRM.

Watching the CD business crater, studio thought that HD would drive their business to new heights while eliminating piracy. It was an optical gold rush - that has turned into a mirage.

The fundamental problem is that the slightly sharper HD picture isn’t worth the extra dollars. 10%-15% max.

Enter the dragon
China has good reasons to support a home-grown HD format. First, the exorbitant Blu-ray royalties hurts Chinese manufacturers ability to compete on price.

An equally important, but unspoken, issue is the econoclypse. The Chinese government has made a deal with the Chinese people: leave us in control and we’ll deliver rising living standards. The current slow down has hit China hard: millions have been laid off and economic growth is anemic.

CBHD is a double win for the Chinese government: billions saved in royalties; and a much cheaper, locally manufactured, luxury item for the restless masses. Blu-ray is simply collateral damage.

Studio knuckle-draggers no doubt are salivating at a tough new form of Region encoding: incompatible formats for the West and Asia. But will that really work?

English is the #2 language in Asia, so English-language CBHDs will be popular. Shanghai vendors will happily sell CBHD players and disks on Ebay. The economics are irresistible and, other than the studios, who will turn down HD content at DVD prices?

The Storage Bits take
Toshiba’s gambit is brilliant. Instead of taking a total loss on their billion-dollar HD DVD investment, they’ll get incremental revenue and, no doubt, valuable future consideration from the Chinese government.

It is a nice win for the Chinese government and manufacturers. Blu-ray’s high cost has slowed its acceptance to a crawl, so Chinese CBHD players will rapidly climb down the cost curve to prices lower than DVD-only players since they aren’t paying DVD royalties either.

The studios get a couple of years to make some money on Chinese CBHD releases, but will piracy disappear? Not anytime soon.

The big loser is the Blu-ray camp. Boo-hoo. They’ve consistently misjudged the market and Blu-ray’s appeal. Guys, I’m sorry you made a bad business decision, but it’s time to man up and take your write-offs.

CBHD vendors should not ignore the writable CBHD market. Many consumers would like something larger than DVDs for backup and much cheaper - and more compatible - than Blu-ray.

Here’s hoping the CBHD storage market is running wild by this time next year. CBHD will be the world’s #1 format in unit volume by next year.

Comments welcome, of course. Who vetted that name? China Blue was Kathleen Turner’s alter-ego in Ken Russell’s outrageous Crimes of Passion. A prostitute by night, hard-charging professional woman by day and a constant temptation to Tony Perkins’ street preacher, she is certainly not a character the prudish Chinese government would endorse.

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Topics

Robin Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small.

Disclosure

Robin Harris

Robin Harris is a president of TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm in northern Arizona. He also writes StorageMojo.com, a blog which accepts advertising from companies in the storage industry, and has a 25 year history with IT vendors. He has many industry contacts, many of whom are friends and all of whom he has opinions about. Robin has relationships with many companies in the technology industry. Every company he writes about may have sought to influence his opinion through carefully-crafted marketing messages and self-serving white papers, gifts ranging from desk calendars, t-shirts, lunches and trips as well as analyst or consulting assignments. He also invests in some technology companies. He may accept payment for services in stock as well. Robin discloses financial investments in or client relationships with companies named in Storage Bits. To help readers sort out the gold from the dross in his writings, Robin tries to communicate his reasons as clearly as he can. If you agree, you are intelligent and discerning. If you disagree, well, you disagree. In all cases, Robin encourages readers to subject everything they read, see or hear on the internet or from politicians to some simple questions: * What assumptions are implicit in the world view and judgments of the author? * What, if any, is the factual basis for the opinions the author expresses? * Is it reasonable, logical and clear? Your critical faculties: use ‘em or lose ‘em!

Biography

Robin Harris

Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small. He introduced a couple of multi-billion dollar storage products (DLT, the first Fibre Channel array) to market, as well as a many smaller ones. Earlier he spent 10 years marketing servers and networks. After leaving corporate life he founded TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm. He also developed StorageMojo into one of the top storage industry blogs.

Robin writes, consults, coaches and lives among the mountains of northern Arizona.

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paul_bruford@... 11th Sep 2009
the big arghuement against BR was always the royalty thing. Any new format will be costly, but the studios saw blu ray as a) a means to screw EVERYONE in the whole food chain and b) ram DRM down everyones throats

epic fail
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Well researched
Ashtonian 3rd Aug 2009
The problem with Blu Ray is the royalty aspect of this format.
Thousands of dollars just to use their logo on the Jacket Cover and so on.

Maybe this chinese will work.
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Wrong
Bobulon 5th Aug 2009
No new format will work without the support of the movie companies and China is a pirate market where they sell nothing legit. This story is NOT well researched, it was written by someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow
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TOSHIBA JOINING THE BDA
CaW2 Updated - 10th Aug 2009
The company that licensed the remnants of HD DVD for the chinese CBHD format (ie. TOSHIBA) apparently sees enough success in Blu-ray's future to join the BDA. So how is @ssH@t Robin Harris going to spin this?

"Toshiba infiltrates the BDA... Blu-Ray death coming soon"

Too hilarious... RH proven to be an @ssh@t blowhard again.
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One big problem for BluRay
A.Sinic 11th Aug 2009
has always been the massive cost of buying a BluRay disk production line. Its costs millions. By contrast, HD-DVD and CBHD disks can be made on a modified DVD production line. That opens the replication business to hundreds of much smaller businesses, and hence to a wider variety of titles.

China makes a LOT of movies themselves. Having a local format for these should work well. The Chinese government probably doesn't feel it is losing anything if Hollywood decide not to play. But in any case, the studios will follow the money as they always do. Thats the only way to survive these days.
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arguement. BD was more expensive to produce initially due to it being a new technology. Replication cost is no longer a huge issue 18 months post format war.

BD50 has been proven to work reliably. More BD capable production lines are being put on-line to keep up with demand and...

BD still has tremendous growth potenetial. It is one of the only home vid businesses to show significant growth during the recession.
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The studios are what's killing it. The players are plenty cheap now. The studios are pumping out plenty of content. But that content is way overpriced and creeping higher. As long as a good upscaling DVD player can nearly match the quality and the BD discs cost twice as much for new releases, it will never become a mass market replacement for DVD. Until the studios realize that VERY few people will pay twice as much for an incremental increase in quality, it will never take off. At some point, the retailers will start reducing their disc purchases due to growing overstocks and the market will just die off.

And this doesn't even take into consideration the fact that HD streaming will soon become the preferred way to view your movie libraries. Who wants to take up half the living room with shelving for a movie collection when you can store an even bigger collection online and stream it on demand?

Combine both of those elements, and BD's days are truly numbered.
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Way to feed the ignorance.
dgurney 16th Aug 2009
"As long as a good upscaling DVD player can nearly match the quality"

Marketing BS. "Upscaling" to what? Your TV (if it's HD) already upscales ANY SD source, because it has to in order to fill the screen.

"Who wants to take up half the living room with shelving for a movie collection when you can store an even bigger collection online and stream it on demand?"

Ugh. Think it through. First of all, "half the living room"? Nice strawman. And storage online is NOT on-demand. You're dependent on whoever's storing it AND a constant Internet connection. That's gonna work great on a plane. Or in a car. Or in a hotel room. "Hey, let's grab a few movies to watch later!" "UH, I CAN'T."

Not to mention the dogcrap quality of downloadable "HD" content at abysmal bit rates.

Wake up and stop cheerleading the demise of real goods in exchange for your money.
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Way to feed the ignorance, indeed...
minardi 10th Sep 2009
"You're dependent on whoever's storing it AND a constant Internet connection. That's gonna work great on a plane. Or in a car. Or in a hotel room. "Hey, let's grab a few movies to watch later!" "UH, I CAN'T.""

Who's ignorant here. 1 TB hard drive (1 in x 4 in x 5 in) holds apx 800 movies (I know, that's my set-up). Your irony describes what I do when I travel: upload the movies to my iPhone, watch the movies on the plane and when at the hotel, use my HD cable (or RGB, or..whatever the TV set has) to plug the iPhoen to the room TV.

What in hell do you want to buy a movie on a disc? The way USB key pricing is going, you'll buy your HD movie on it.
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...
paul_bruford@... 11th Sep 2009
the big arghuement against BR was always the royalty thing. Any new format will be costly, but the studios saw blu ray as a) a means to screw EVERYONE in the whole food chain and b) ram DRM down everyones throats

epic fail
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So is my HD-DVD player dead or not?
eggmanbubbagee@... Updated - 3rd Aug 2009
In the US that is, what are the implications in the West - any chance this Chinese development will kill eventually off Blu Ray and make HD-DVD or its Chinese equivalent viable again? Please.
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I would be shocked....
oncall 3rd Aug 2009
To see HD-DVD make a comeback in the US. I suspect a lot of businesses are still stinging from the losses from HD-DVD.

Weirder things have happened though. If it does come back the road is going to be LONG.
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Streaming HD will replace both. Netflix HD on demand and online HD video purchases will kill off both disc formats within a few years. Only DVD might survive for a while, mainly because it's cheap.
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Stream what and how?
johnmckay 13th Aug 2009
I stream downloaded movies from my WHS to he PS3 over gigabit. With HD peaking at over 100 meg from time to time you've got no hope of streaming direct, in real time over the internet, as far as I can see.

And are we really expecting to stream HD movies free or cheap enough to make it practical? I can't see it just yet.

A quote from Netflix: "The quality of the display of the instant watching movies may vary from computer to computer, and device to device, and may be affected by a variety of factors, such as the bandwidth available through and/or speed of your internet connection. Netflix makes no representations about the quality of your instant watching display" That is most certainly NOT HD.

I totally agree that Blu-Ray is overpriced. My tally being the three I was given as a gift. I prefer to download then stream to the PS3 but it's a fiddle at times.

For me, the future may well be to buy a full hd download at a reasonable price and watch it via a dedicated media player. The popcorn hour looks good at the moment but I think we'll see some movement towards protected downloads and players that restrict transfer off them. If the price is right, count me in!
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Hum, let see..
minardi 10th Sep 2009
"I stream downloaded movies from my WHS to he PS3 over gigabit. With HD peaking at over 100 meg from time to time you've got no hope of streaming direct, in real time over the internet, as far as I can see."

Guess I've been doing the impossible lately. Buying movies on iTunes and playing them using my AppleTV apx 10 sec after the purchase.
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More cheerleading for rip-offs
dgurney 16th Aug 2009
Look at people ready to surrender their money in exchange for... nothing dependable. This is exactly what media vendors want: the ability to deny you what you paid for, any time, for no reason.

"Oh, sorry, it's 'network congestion'".

"Oh, your device chain isn't HDCP-compliant somewhere. Talk to your device manufacturer. Not our problem. No refunds."

"Yes, you bought this movie, but you can't copy it to another device to take with you to grandma's house to entertain the kids. You watch at OUR convenience. Good bye."

"Sure, 5 megabits per second is HD. It fills your screen, doesn't it?"

And on and on.

critical thinking = dead
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CBHD uses audio and video codecs developed by the Chinese for the same reason they aren't embracing blu-ray -- lower royalty payments.

It's no doubt possible to make a device that plays CBHD and HD-DVD discs, but current HD-DVD players probably don't support the codecs CBHD uses. Maybe a firmware upgrade could add support?

I would love to see this spread and show Sony that there's some value in putting the customer ahead of profits. Hopefully it'll also give me a new use for the HD-DVD drive in my HTPC.
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Unlikely
Richard Flude 3rd Aug 2009
"Maybe a firmware upgrade could add support?"

Typically such devices use hardware decoders, the firmware is simply to
interact with the hardware decoders.

HD-DVD is dead everywhere but in the blogs and forums of ZDNet.
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Blu-ray is quite alive in Australia
MyBlueRex 4th Aug 2009
We're on China's backdoor step... theres ONLY talk of Blu-ray.

There's thousands upon thousands of Blu-Ray discs in the shops, LOTS of players/disc recorders along with HDD & Blu-Ray disc players/recorders. The Blu-Ray players are much the same price as normal/high-end DVD players or the same price as DVD players just two years ago.

The Blu-Ray discs are much the same price as normal DVDs. For brand new titles they might be one or two dollars more. Not twice the price as constantly inferred here.

Blu-Ray is ALIVE and doing well in Australia... except for the blogs, ZDNet and the ZDNet forums - but of course, the self-importance of the article writer and their little tiny world, is more important than the truth of the world.
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Like that new glass house?
wolf_z 4th Aug 2009
"the self-importance of the article writer and their little tiny world, is more important than the truth of the world."

I wouldn't be throwing stones, friend. Australia isn't exactly the entire world either...

Sony is *also* an Eastern based company. I think Toshiba just quietly laid a rake in the grass for Sony to find face-first. happy

CHD-DVD may not win but right now Blu-ray *isn't* doing all that well compared to DVD (not HD-DVD, garden variety DVD).

I was buying some movies over the weekend at Wal-mart (yeah, I know. :)) and they had 1 panel of Blu-ray--to about 40 panels of normal DVDs.

It's that way everywhere I shop (Middle of the US). DVD isn't dead and with a cheap alternative to Blu-ray people are going to take notice.

Where, for example, are most DVD players built after all? happy
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I have a farely good DVD collection (~450 pcs)
and I've held off on buying a bluray player,
mostly waiting for prices to drop, but also for
things to standardize. With upscaling my DVD's
look pretty good and I don't see the quality
being worth the upgrade yet. I will prob never
repurchase most of those in my collection,
perhaps a few of my favorites, or ones that
were done REALLY well into high def, but I
don't expect the formats to stick around that
long. With divx and media center style
entertainment, more TVs including streaming
video support, I just think that the value of
specific encoding will decrease. Then it just
comes down to the technology of the disc. I
have most of my movies backed up on a 2TB HDD
as well as some (we'll call them) divx movies
aquired else where. I really don't care about
the actual disc format anymore. Granted I was
quite supprised at house fast I can fill 2TBs
but as my collection grows, so with HD
capacities and I'll just keep adding on. My
next addition will be some kind of drobo/raid
setup. It won't need to be raid-5 cause if I
loose data I still have the discs (that I never
touch so they'll never be scratched).
I only give it a few decades before the disc
type is totally irrelevant. I'm sure you'll
always be able to find hardcopies of media,
cause not everybody will want to purchase off
the net, so it'll still need to be stored on
SOMEthing, but what it is stored on will be
less relevant.

I don't really care if HD-DVD makes a comeback,
its a superior format in my opinion, but that
hardly matters in the market. But I was kind of
bored after bluray won, I hope theres more to
this battle. Maybe it'll force bluray to drop
licensing costs (yea right, they'll prob just
concede defeat in a decade like they did with
beta, you'd think they would have learned the
first time.)
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NT
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Pills not needed. Fact is we all make money. Deal with it loser!!
No More Microsoft Software Ever! Updated - 10th Aug 2009
Great time to bet AGAINST Mcrosoft....the HELL of all warez!!!!!
You are right, far more DVD's than Blu-ray discs - but most of that 40:1 (lower where I shop) ratio is old titles. Since Blu-ray started making a dent 'cheap' DVD's have dropped from 10-12 bucks to 5-8 bucks. So I think much of the continued success with DVD is simply that market price sinking (trying to retain volume as downloads and Blu-ray erode it).

Personally it seems much more likely that my Blu-ray is obsoleted by a high bandwidth net connection and sensibly priced HD downloadable material - not yet another disc format. That said, I still prefer to see a case, and physical media to the 'assurance' that something is managing my digital assets on a library somewhere in the cloud - but that's my age showing I guess.
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It's not just your age.
darkonc Updated - 5th Aug 2009
There have already been a few cases of consumers being bitten by even big-name companies (*cough Amazon cough*) who've decided that it's not worth their time and money to to keep the DRM controllers running for their proprietary format.

It doesn't really cost the company much, but consumers are left holding the bag and having to scramble to convert their content to some other format (if that's allowed) by some arbitrarily chosen date, or permanently lose access to the music that they thought they had a permanent license to.
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Wow...
Hallowed are the Ori 4th Aug 2009
Here you go smart guy, from Amazon.com, a couple of upcoming releases:

"Race To Witch Mountain"
Price: $15.99 DVD
Price: $25.99 Blue-Ray

"The Soloist"
Price: $16.99 DVD
Price: $26.99 Blue-Ray

And those prices are AFTER they had knocked the prices down on Blue-Ray... more proof that Blue-Ray is tanking hard with consumers.
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A better comparison
BillShepp Updated - 4th Aug 2009
Hey, John E, let's compare the right products.

Race to Witch Mountain DVD: $15.99
Race to Witch Mountain Extended Edition DVD: $22.99
Blu-ray Edition: $25.99.

The Blu-ray edition includes a DVD and a digital copy. So for $3 extra you get a second copy of the movie on DVD plus HD video and lossless sound plus whatever other features may be unique to the Blu-ray version. For anyone who might have been considering the Extended Edition the Blu-ray version is a no-brainer.
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Does it really?
p0figster 4th Aug 2009
Does the Blu-Ray disc ACTUALLY include a
digital copy? Every DVD I've bought that says
on the front "Includes Digital Copy" really
just included a discount on purchasing a
digital copy. And the discount meant I was
still paying $15 for a digital copy of the disc
I'd just bought. I wouldn't be surprised if
Blu-ray was the same way, not actual digital
copy included, just a discount.

Besides, why is it that when I buy a CD I can
make myself a digital copy of the music, no
problemo (and legally) but when I buy a movie I
can't? Including a digital copy shouldn't be
added value, it should simply be expected.
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Digital copy
BillShepp 4th Aug 2009
All of my Blu-ray Discs with digital copies don't require additional payment - they include a DVD with the copy and a code you enter into iTunes or Windows Media to validate that copy, or they include a code which then allows you to download the movie. I'd be shocked if DVD's which claim to "include digital copy" don't work the same, it would be very misleading if you had to pay extra for what is claimed to be part of the package. Also, in the example above, the Blu-ray Edition includes both a DVD copy and a digital copy.
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Finally...
Zaranyzerak 4th Aug 2009
Someone who has their facts straight. Thank you for the REAL comparison, rather than the deliberately unbalanced one from the previous poster.
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Why would I bother to buy a movie
Yax_to_the_Max 4th Aug 2009
that I will probably watch once. I just go to the local grocery store/covenience store's Redbox and rent it for $1.
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the point is........
cymru999 4th Aug 2009
that most comsumers dont even bother watching the extras on a DVD - I buy a movie and what I want to pay for is the movie - if they want to bundle extras free then thats fine but I dont want to pay for them. Most movies these days are pretty dire anyway so why do I want to watch some self important producer rambling about why his artistic skills effectively ruined a good story! As for digital copies to play on our portable equipment we should have the right to create those ourselves!! Long live DVD
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yes but...
shadfurman 4th Aug 2009
unless its a REALLY cool movie... I'm only
going to buy the regular edition anyway. Once I
get into a movie I don't even notice the
difference in resolution. Maybe if I put
another two or three grand into my theater
setup, but for that much I could go see a LOT
of movies in the theater and STILL buy a better
setup in a few years when hardware prices drop.
(good audio will still cost I'm sure, but I'll
be able to replace my projector with a
brighter, higher contrast, TV)
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@p0figster
shadfurman 4th Aug 2009
it's easy to rip a DVD. I'm not sure how easy
with a bluray, since I don't own ANY bluray
devices, but you just pop in tell the software
what format you want it saved in (none of the
free software I've used converts directly to
AVI) and click "rip" or whatever. I use DVD
copy and rip it to an ISO file which is basicly
just a direct copy of the DVD. This way I can
burn it directly back onto a disc if my
original get "lost" (stolen, happens all the
time) or damaged and VLC Player will play the
ISO file just like a DVD and works with a
remote. I haven't bought a dedicated PC for it
all, but my laptop has an HDMI port and the
video looks great! I plug in my eSATA drive
with all my movies on it and plug in my TV, pop
the remote out and I'm good to go. Its a little
bit of a hassle so eventually I want to hook it
up to a cheap dedicated server, then I can also
use it as a DVR.
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WHo in their right mind
gnesterenko 4th Aug 2009
buys Blue-Rays from Amazon at full retail (I know its discounted, but really the discount is what retail usually is, not the mSRP). Buyer beware, dude! Here, I'll help you save some dough:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=11024569&sourceid=10775476971115626320
vs
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11024564
27% markup, but thats only $3, so not much in reality.

or
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=71060181
vs
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=71060184
18% markup

or

http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Earth-Complete-BBC-Blu-ray/dp/B000MRAAJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249410936&sr=8-1
vs
http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Earth-Complete-David-Attenborough/dp/B000MR9D5E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249410954&sr=8-2
15% markup

granted there is also:
http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Earth-Complete-BBC-DVD/dp/B000MRAAJW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1249410968&sr=8-3
which is even cheaper then the DVD... strange, and if you are in the cost-savings mode, go for it, I guess. Some of us are video/audiophiles though and would like to get a good use out of our 46" + 1080p TVs and equally expensive surround sound setups. /shrug

I saw Ghostbusters I and II on BR the other day for $8.00 for both.

In short, don't blame the format just cause you can't find the deals. Some people assume Amazon/Best Buy price = price everywhere. In reality, if you are trying to save dough, there are MANY MANY MANY options for finding heavily discounted disks.

I suggest:

www.slickdeals.net
www.bensbargains.com

you are welcome

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
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Please. Walmart is so hillbilly! Might as well shop at K-Mart! (NT)
No More Microsoft Software Ever! 5th Aug 2009
NT
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$8? Did you rent them?
erikswanson 11th Aug 2009
It's kind of funny...I have a blue-ray player in my desktop, and I've been wanting to buy a cheap blu-ray disk to check out how it looks. I can tell you that Best Buy, Target, and Walmart NEVER have blu-ray disks for less than $15. Never.

New discs cost twice as much as DVDs. It's not a dollar or two more. There is, of course, NO reason for blu-ray discs to cost more than DVDs. None. It's as if the movie studios forgot what a disaster laserdiscs and VHS sales were before DVDs came along. It is LAUGHABLE how much tv collections and catalog titles cost compared to their DVD counterparts. $60 for a season of south park? $55 for HALF a season of Battlestar Galactica? $45 for Close Encounters?? $55 for the Dark Knight??? If I'm going to pay over $50 for 2 hours of entertainment, I better be getting a happy ending!

Please. Blu-ray is yet another failed money grab by the same industry that loses price-fixing lawsuits ALL THE TIME. Do you think the solution to the music industry's woes is to charge MORE? Then why would it help the movie industry?

Imagine if the internet priced access the way movie studios price technological improvements. Oh, broadband is 20 times faster than dial-up? So AOL is now $400 a month? OK! DURRR
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Not proof of anything
Zaranyzerak 4th Aug 2009
"And those prices are AFTER they had knocked the prices down on Blue-Ray... more proof that Blue-Ray is tanking hard with consumers."

That is proof of nothing. How expensive were new DVDs at the 3-year mark of the format? I'll spare you the trouble - EXACTLY THE SAME. DVD is cheaper because it's 12+ year old technology. Blu-ray is barely 3 years out of the gate, so of course it's going to be more expensive at this stage.

Let's go a little further- Blu-ray players just broke the 100 dollar barrier this month. It took until the 5 year mark for DVD to hit the same price point for players.

And before anyone throws me that tired old "but HD-DVD was cheaper" nonsense, the only reason HD-DVD was so cheap was because it was FAILING right out of the gate and Toshiba was desperate for sales. Economically, it made ZERO sense for new tech to be priced that low so close to launch.

Blu-ray is priced realistically given the length of time the format has been available, and prices have dropped in direct proportion to how the format has caught on.

Blu-ray is catching on FASTER with consumers than DVD did. Hardly the mark of a failure.
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The Mark of Failure used here is...
DaemonSlayer 4th Aug 2009
... That everyone else hasn't INSTANTLY put $5billion in someone's pocket.

They no longer care that if DVD took 5 years to really get rolling, and BR is just reaching it at 3 years. If it wasn't overnight, or more like within .005 seconds of release, it is a failure.

Yes, BR licencing isn't helping it be faster, but BR isn't dead yet... and Chinese DVD or Chinese HD-DVD isn't exactly compatible with current world standards... AND if the MPAA Cartel decides NOT to support it, all that's left is pirated versions. (Somehow, I doubt that by default these Chinese formats include the Draconian DRM that the Media Cartels want.)
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Well that was just silly.
No More Microsoft Software Ever! Updated - 5th Aug 2009
If you have an HDTV setup then you're gonna buy the BluRay DVD's.

By your logic here is proof the HDTV is tanking hard with consumers:

28" TV - $98.00
28" HDTV - $389.00

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Where?
erikswanson 11th Aug 2009
They don't sell CRT tvs anymore. If they did, I'm sure they would be popular.

DVD players and movies are next on that list. Already there are like 3 new DVD plyers at Target, and insead of the $25-$60 price range they now cost $60-&100.
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Comparison from the UK
TV John 18th Aug 2009
While Blu-Ray is still more expensive in the UK it's definitely gaining traction. A quick comparison on the new Star Trek movie from HMV's site:

DVD: ?9.99
DVD (Double) ?14.99
Blu-Ray (inc Digital Copy) ?17.99

And if the information on the site is accurate then the BD version includes more extras than either of the DVD versions. Visiting HMV's store in Oxford Street I would guess that around 7-10% of the space is devoted to Blu-Ray, but I'm not very good at estimating. Plus you can now get some titles for as little as ?7 (the cheapest DVD I've ever seen is ?3).

I don't mind paying a little extra for Blu-Ray if I'm getting more for my money. I was a bit fed up when I bought the BD version of a Knight's Tale and it had no extras at all, but for the most part the disks have been pretty good. There are a lot of titles I wouldn't bother with on BD, but for films with a lot of detail and action, such as the new Star Trek, I think it's worth the extra.

Don't forget that much of the extra cost goes in royalties to Sony, and they always have the option of reducing those royalties if they feel the format needs a boost. So at the risk of letting the facts get in the way of a good story, I don't think Blu-Ray is tanking hard.
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Yes you are correct in one part of your statement... The decoders are hardware.

However guess what all modern hardware decoders are driven by software on the chip... which means guess what, thats right you upgrade the "FIRMWARE" which is the "SOFTWARE on the HARDWARE" - like your BIOS and the chip still does the math, but the software tells it how to do it.

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kinda like a math co-processor huh.
shadfurman 4th Aug 2009
Its kinda funny, back in the day, before CPUs
had much floating point abilities they had math
co-processors to due any really advanced math.
But that got integrated into the chip as time
went on (I don't remember when, but I don't
remember systems having them after the 8080
series... I would guess 386 at the latest) but
then video co-processors were popularized by
3dfx back in the day now were offloading more
and more math processing to the GPU. From what
I understand of Intels larabee its going to be
a many x86 cores with firmware that will tell
cores how to process the input.

There really isn't a point to this... just
thinking a loud... er kinda... I am typing
kinda loud.

Kinda like what you were saying...

kinda
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Actually no
Richard Flude 4th Aug 2009
"However guess what all modern hardware decoders are driven by
software on the chip... which means guess what, thats right you upgrade
the "FIRMWARE" which is the "SOFTWARE on the HARDWARE" "

Actually this is not how they work. I WORK with a number of these chips
(sigmadesigns).

Whilst we can upgrade firmware, we don't change codecs. Codecs for
these embedded devices (as opposed to say a PC or PS3) are chosen at
design.
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CBHD
Peter Perry 4th Aug 2009
CBHD was said to be backwards compatible so they will play the old HD-DVD Movies!
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I wouldnt dump it yet.
aktazdevil 4th Aug 2009
Basically even in the worst case you'll probably be able to get a unoffical mod for your hd-dvd players rom and play the movies from china which will be in english anyways. Just a guess. Remember china = big market, so the movie studios will have to capitulate.
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Nope
DaemonSlayer 4th Aug 2009
just means the CHINESE HD-DVD format would wipe ALL others out... IF this piece is to be believed.
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Absolutely but this isn't new...
Peter Perry 4th Aug 2009
Toshiba licensed this before they abandoned the format (quite prematurely might I add)...

Reality is, one of the HD-DVD specs was Region Free and if China does that then yes they'll be able to wipe Blu-Ray off the map if Sony and that Consortium don't start dropping prices fast.
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Provides me with another excuse
davebarnes 3rd Aug 2009
not to buy Blu-ray player or discs.

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