ie8 fix

How we'll roll with Thunderbolt

By | March 3, 2011, 3:02pm PST

Intel and Apple are underselling Thunderbolt - for good reason - but make no mistake: Thunderbolt is part of of your future. Here’s how Thunderbolt will roll out - and why.

Performance
Thunderbolt consists of 2 10 Gbps bi-directional (full duplex) channels. Each channel can handle 10 Gbps in and 10 Gbps out at the same time.

USB 2.0 also runs bi-directionally at 240 Mbit/sec each way. Which is where the 480 Mbit/sec number you see everywhere comes from - even if you never see it in real life.

If Thunderbolt was promoted the way USB 2.0 was, ApTel would be claiming 40 Gbps. Here’s how Apple positions it:

And here’s how LaCie positions it:

System performance
The limiting factor, especially on notebooks, will be system bandwidth. You’ll need dual high-performance SSDs on a Sandy Bridge chipset to use half of a single Thunderbolt channel.

Desktops won’t be much better until the next generation of chip technology kicks in. You’ll see a benefit today if you’re editing full HD video and you have Thunderbolt peripherals. Otherwise it’s just bragging rights.

Peripheral performance
Peripheral availability and cost will be the main reason Thunderbolt doesn’t take off fast. Figure the 1st storage peripherals will come out this summer from LaCie.

But the cost will deter most consumers. Prices will be high because Thunderbolt peripherals other than displays will be high-performance.

With storage, that means a couple of SSDs in an array, like LaCie’s announced but not shipping ’til summer Little Big Disk. The LBD will probably cost more than most WinTel notebooks.

Other peripherals
Beyond displays and storage you will see specialized high-speed peripherals, such as prosumer and pro HD camcorders, instrument interfaces for engineering and science and compute cluster software. Expect these to dribble out as vendors - other than Sony, who also seems committed to Thunderbolt - discover its advantages.

Expect to see Thunderbolt-to-10-GigE adapters as well. High end desktop machines will be going native 10 GigE by the end of the year, but why bother on a Thunderbolt notebook?

I’d also expect to see the Fibre Channel storage protocol over Thunderbolt through an adapter. They won’t be cheap, but for the first time a notebook could have access to an FC SAN.

Compute cluster?
Thunderbolt is very low latency - a maximum of 8 nanoseconds in a fully configured 8 node fabric - which rivals the much more costly - and expandable - Infiniband. Infiniband is widely used in high performance computing and in EMC’s Isilon NAS clusters.

A cluster of 6 quad-core notebooks on a Thunderbolt fabric could handle a lot of video rendering and transcoding while on the run. Add a fast flash array and you’ve got a 50 lb. battery-powered HD video production studio. Nice.

Thunderbolt vs USB 3.0
Despite Thunderbolt’s advantages, USB 3.0 is fast enough for the majority of users. Unlike when USB 1.0 debuted, users aren’t looking for relief from balky, incompatible and slow interfaces like ADB, parallel printer ports, PS/2 and SCSI.

But USB 3.0 can run over Thunderbolt, so Mac users shouldn’t have long to wait for USB 3.0 adapters. The early adapters won’t be cheap, but embedding them into USB 3.0 hubs would blunt the sticker shock.

It would be nice - but I’m not holding my breath - for Apple to write USB 3.0 drivers. Windows support for 3.0 should be much better.

The Storage Bits take
Make no mistake: Thunderbolt is a solution to high-end problems, not the consumer mainstream, today. But if Intel is wise, they’ll drive Thunderbolt’s pricing down fast to make it more attractive than FireWire was at its peak.

But consumers will gradually learn to consume a lot more bandwidth and they always like simpler cabling. It will take a few years, but if it is priced correctly, Thunderbolt will become a mainstream consumer technology.

Even better, it will become a mainstream server technology, faster, simpler and cheaper than the current hodge-podge of interconnects. Blade vendors should learn to love it.

I’ll be at NAB in Las Vegas, where I expect to see more Thunderbolt announcements - especially from Sony - and also from storage vendors. As more Thunderbolt pro gear rolls out, WinTel vendors will have to choose: concede the entire high-end market to Apple, or dig in for a fight.

Given Apple’s high-end dominance, I’d expect only HP and Dell to to join the Thunderbolt brigade along with a few workstation mobo’s. Thunderbolt will cement Apple’s stranglehold on the creative pro market.

Update: Jason Hiner suggests Forget Intel’s Thunderbolt, Wireless USB is the game-changer. Except for Wi-Fi, I’ve never had a satisfactory wireless peripheral. Including Apple’s Bluetooth Magic Trackpad that went hinky when I upgraded the video card on my Mac Pro. Slower, flakier and probably just as expensive - wUSB is not replacing any wired peripheral in my life. End update.

Comments welcome, of course. Do you manage or architect systems with internal storage? My firm is doing a survey for a major IT supplier and would like your input. Learn more at Internal Storage Survey.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Robin Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small.

Disclosure

Robin Harris

Robin Harris is a president of TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm in northern Arizona. He also writes StorageMojo.com, a blog which accepts advertising from companies in the storage industry, and has a 25 year history with IT vendors. He has many industry contacts, many of whom are friends and all of whom he has opinions about. Robin has relationships with many companies in the technology industry. Every company he writes about may have sought to influence his opinion through carefully-crafted marketing messages and self-serving white papers, gifts ranging from desk calendars, t-shirts, lunches and trips as well as analyst or consulting assignments. He also invests in some technology companies. He may accept payment for services in stock as well. Robin discloses financial investments in or client relationships with companies named in Storage Bits. To help readers sort out the gold from the dross in his writings, Robin tries to communicate his reasons as clearly as he can. If you agree, you are intelligent and discerning. If you disagree, well, you disagree. In all cases, Robin encourages readers to subject everything they read, see or hear on the internet or from politicians to some simple questions: * What assumptions are implicit in the world view and judgments of the author? * What, if any, is the factual basis for the opinions the author expresses? * Is it reasonable, logical and clear? Your critical faculties: use ‘em or lose ‘em!

Biography

Robin Harris

Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small. He introduced a couple of multi-billion dollar storage products (DLT, the first Fibre Channel array) to market, as well as a many smaller ones. Earlier he spent 10 years marketing servers and networks. After leaving corporate life he founded TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm. He also developed StorageMojo into one of the top storage industry blogs.

Robin writes, consults, coaches and lives among the mountains of northern Arizona.

72
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
FAULKNE 13th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
It took more than year for Intel and Apple to actually make this thing work. It was painful endless testing, fixing and optimising. It looks like this technology appeared because of someone like Steven Jobs, who has over the top, next to impossible demands from technology.

Alas, it will take time for others to grasp this technology, so this interface will not become superwidely used any time soon.
0 Votes
+ -
Or there is no need
Mister Spock 6th Mar 2011
@denisrs
That is another reason you had discounted.
0 Votes
+ -
@denisrs But that's typical for any new peripheral technology. USB 1.0 was years in development. The same was true for Firewire (P1394). Heck, SCSI-2 took most of the '90s to become official, even though it was widely used before then.

While I suspect you are right that it will take years for Thunderbolt to become widely accepted by consumers, it will probably still be widely used 15 years from now as a low-end peripheral interface that even the cheapest peripherals support at the cost of a couple bucks.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
alsobannedfromzdnet Updated - 3rd Mar 2011
I was thinking the other day of multicored ARM processors in future Apple TV's, teamed with Thunderbolt could make very small, cheap cluster arrays that you could fit in a shoebox.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Goldie07 3rd Mar 2011
name change please

this is the absolute dumbest tech name I have ever heard.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Robin Harris 3rd Mar 2011
@Goldie07
Said about iPad too. After 18 million sold it doesn't sound so stupid, does it?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
twray@... 4th Mar 2011
@Robin Harris
I don't know....it still sounds pretty goofy, but no doubt the things have become popular somehow...
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Synthmeister 4th Mar 2011
@Robin Harris
I still think that the original code name "Light Peak" was much cooler.
Of course, as one wag commented, once they switch to optical cables, they can call it "Lightningbolt."
0 Votes
+ -
@Goldie07
this is the absolute dumbest tech name I have ever heard.
What?s you take on Zune, Windows Kin, Windows phone 7 series OS? Trust me Microsoft has even worse names for products. If Microsoft made the iPad it would be named something like Microsoft Zune, Media player Edition, or Microsoft Windows Media tablet. Motorola did not do so hot with the name Xoom either, When I first saw the name I thought it was pronounced eX-oom (exhume), which is not a really great name. Apple has a history of good names, occasionally the to screw that up though. Personally I have no problem with Thunderbolt.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
DontBeEvil Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@Rick_K

Wow Rick_K...I am constantly amazed at your ability to bring in Microsoft and bash it in your comments for an article which had nothing to do with Microsoft.

You should include your posts within the following tags so that readers know your real intent:
"Microsoft Bashing"
..
"/Microsoft Bashing"
0 Votes
+ -
@DontBeEvil
What drugs are you on? My response is to stupid product names. Last I checked the Xoom was not a Microsoft product. Comparing two other companies is in no way bashing Microsoft, even thought that come up with some really stupid product names.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
DontBeEvil 4th Mar 2011
@Rick_K

Apart from the XooM your post concentrated on Microsoft products.
Your first line read:
"What?s you take on Zune, Windows Kin, Windows phone 7 series OS? Trust me Microsoft has even worse names for products."

It did not read:
"What's your take on Apple's Mighty Mouse"
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
scrumptulensence 7th Mar 2011
@Rick_K
I agree with @DontBeEvil. I've read quite a few of your posts. You just just caveat everything you write from here on out with, "BTW, I hate Microsoft."
to you.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Goldie07 3rd Mar 2011
"Make no mistake: Thunderbolt is a solution to high-end problems, not the consumer mainstream, today. But if Intel is wise, they?ll drive Thunderbolt?s pricing down fast to make it more attractive than FireWire was at its peak.''

Firewire never had a peak. It was, and is, completely unknown to most computer users, Mac users included.
0 Votes
+ -
@Goldie07 you are wrong... if it was so completely unknown why all the user hue and cry when Apple removed the FW port for a few months from its smaller Mac Book Pro? Then Apple restored it. How often has that happened...Apple reversing a decision!
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Goldie07 3rd Mar 2011
@keel

Sure if you say so. Everyone who posts on websites complained. Big deal. 98 % of computer users don`t even know that ZDNet or other such sites exist.

Do a test. Take your firewire port equipped computer outside and go to the local mall, or to a football stadium, or grocery store, or the basketball game, or walk down mainstreet. And while you are doing this stop people, point at the firewire port on your computer and ask "what is this". You will be greeted with blank stares. Most of the people you stop, however, will know what a USB port is. They may not call it a usb port, they might call it the "place where you stick in those memory thingies" or " isn't that for a wireless mouse". But they will know what it is for. Firewire? Nope, just blank stares.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Rick_K Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@Goldie07
I guess that depends on where you go. If you go to the projects, more will know about USB, unfortunately they cant tell if its USB, or USB 2. Now if you go to a more upscale neighborhood, they often know that they have USB and FireWire, on their hardware. Now this is just from personal observations, Your Mileage May Vary.
0 Votes
+ -
@Goldie07 "It was, and is, completely unknown to most"
I'm sorry I disagree especially, "on was". 10 years ago it was pretty well known. It has been on the decline ever since USB 2.0 was released. Not because USB 2.0 was better - it was just good enough for most and it was cheaper to implement by vendors. But firewire at one time was even sold (though briefly) on midrange mainstream Wintel desktops. Today, unless you are a Mac person it isn't as well known.
0 Votes
+ -
@DevGuy_z
FireWire is a pretty common thing on high end hardware. Sony sole devices that had iLink (Sony?s licensed version of FireWire). Funny thing is the original FireWire is faster than USB 2, as the claimed data rate was misrepresented. 240 Mbs. compared to FireWire?s 400 Mbs. FireWire 800 (currently on most of the Macs sold today is even faster, but there few devices that take advantage of that speed. Also of note: it depends on how it is implemented. A USB 2 add-on card will use a slower buss than one that uses a dedicated buss.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
bvonr@... 7th Mar 2011
@DevGuy_z I remember buying a $400 FireWire PCI card for my 450mghz Pentium computer because I bought a $1200 Super8 Camcorder AND my wife thought it was OK LOL. That's because the computer before that (a Pentium 90) cost me $5000 with the printer LOL
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Pederson 4th Mar 2011
@Goldie07 - no, incorrect, all Mac users use FireWire and use it daily. You mean "PC users" since their demands for high speed data transfer aren't nearly as much.

FireWire remains the primary fast data transfer protocol for everyone in the industry don't forget.

Thunderbolt is free, there is no extra pricing.
0 Votes
+ -
@Pederson

That's funny, I've owned Macs for years and never purchased a FireWire device...

My current laptop never has anything other than the power cable connected to it.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
frankmv@... 4th Mar 2011
@Goldie07 Hmmm...and what about the millions of ProTools users that use FW800 on their souped up MacBook/Mac Pros? FW800 is not only well-known, but Avid (nee DigiDesign) recommends it! FW(400) never really caught on in the PC world (gee, I wonder why? Could be the sub-par, below USB, 400 mbps bandwidth).

I for one would love to see ThunderBolt take off.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Rick_K Updated - 5th Mar 2011
@frankmv@
FW(400) never really caught on in the PC world (gee, I wonder why? Could be the sub-par, below USB, 400 mbps bandwidth).

There was a registry hack to restore FireWire back to its original speed after Microsoft hobbled it. But that was in xp, I do not know if subsequent updates hobbled it again. So yes there was intentional, as Microsoft cut the speed down to 100 Mbs when USB 2 was first rolled out.
0 Votes
+ -
@Rick_K
Do you not get tired of blaming all of Apple's failures on Microsoft?
I heard that Apple lied about the speed, That Microsoft did not hobble the speed, instead correctly reported it.

Not unlike Apple's explanation for the iPhone 4 weak signal: "we were using the incorrect algorythim".
@Goldie07
AT which point it became irrelevant to many.
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
sdghjt Updated - 4th Mar 2011
interconnects. I've already seen multiple prototypes. Why anyone would stick with copper for this is mind boggling...
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Robin Harris Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@Johnny Vegas
As I noted in "Why Light Peak will run on copper" ( http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-light-peak-will-run-on-copper/1216) copper is cheaper than fiber and, for short distances, just as good.

Copper is widely used in enterprise Fibre Channel storage systems - in addition to glass - for that very reason. If enterprises use it for cost reasons will consumers be far behind?

Robin
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
regconley 4th Mar 2011
@Robin Harris
Is Light peak/Thunderbolt data rate really 10Gbps? From other press releases, it looks like the data path (rather than display port) is four PCIe lanes. If that is the case, then four Gen1 lanes add up to 10 Gbps - however, that is the lane rate. The actual data rate is ~ 8 Gbps due to protocol overhead. This makes Thunderbolt the same (data transfer) speed as PCIe Gen3.
0 Votes
+ -
The great majority of people will likely never need or
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 4th Mar 2011
never use the Thunderbolt port. The people who might use it are professional photographers, enthusiasts, video-graphers, and web developers. The people are typically moving around huge files and manipulating them, where speed is necessary. For the average consumer, are they going to plug their mouse/keyboard into it? not likely.

Now there is one ace in the hole that may change that. Thunderbolt is a combination of Display Port and LightPeak, which means it can be used for Displays and Speakers, and of course an adapter can be used to utilize the port as a USB/Firewire port.

If Apple really wants to drive this technology forward, they should build it into the next generations of iDevices for their dock connector. Give the devices the bus, they could probably even keep the 30 pin connector at the device, but give it ability to connect and transfer over the Thunderbolt port natively.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Synthmeister Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@Snooki_smoosh_smoosh
ThunderPeak is built on PCI Express, that's why is so easy to implement on current PCs and also why it will never show up on iDevices.

But Apple will not drive the adoption as much as Intel. I'm assuming Intel will simply integrate Thunderbolt into all its motherboard designs, especially, as you say, for the default display connector.

And yes, pro audio and video companies are already all over this protocol. It is an absolute God-send for HD video and HD-multi-channel audio interfaces.
0 Votes
+ -
USB 3 will be the standard. Vendors can implement USB 3 without buying a proprietary chipset from Intel.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Pederson 4th Mar 2011
@rshol - What? USB 3.0 is no longer going to be used. It died out. Intel has officially given up on USB as a forward, high speed standard. Apple sets all the port standards (usb, ethernet, dvi, etc) so Thunderbolt is where everyone is headed.

USB 3 is far too slow, 50% slower than Thunderbolt.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
TelstarII 6th Mar 2011
@Pederson apple definately does not set all the port standards.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Aerowind 4th Mar 2011
USB 3.0 will do better than Thunderbolt because it is backwards compatible with the massive amount of USB 2.0 devices.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Robin Harris 4th Mar 2011
@Aerowind
There's no reason Thunderbolt can't be backwards compatible with USB 2.0. We'll just have to wait and see what the driver elves deliver.

Robin
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
snoop0x7b Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@Robin Harris You'd need a USB controller for thunderbolt... Which would be a device that has a USB controller chip on board + a thunderbolt transceiver. That isn't backwards compatibility. PCI-E is a separate protocol from USB... The port is even pinned completely differently. This has to be one of the worst statements of the year by ZDNet personnel.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
Pederson 4th Mar 2011
@Aerowind - But USB 3.0 will never happen at this point don't forget.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
mediumcool 4th Mar 2011
@Aerowind

Thunderbolt is also backward-compatible with the dreaded USB2.
0 Votes
+ -
wusb will win provided 2 things: it just works and can't be hacked (these may take a while to achieve)
0 Votes
+ -
@jw@... Unicorn meat will solve the world's hunger problem provided 2 things: we genetically engineer unicorns and PETA doesn't object (these may take a while to achieve)
0 Votes
+ -
Firewire not known?
systemx 4th Mar 2011
For recording studios, pro or home based, Firewire is the way to go. Audio interface, mic preamps, external hard drives, etc., should be Firewire.

Current USB interfaces (can and will) introduce latency to the i/o streams. If you do any type of pro or home recording, you use Firewire if at all possible. USB doesn't get a second look for most audio racks. If you're just a hobbyist, USB is probably adequate.

Personally I can't wait for Thunderbolt devices to start appearing. Will have to clear some space in my rack for new gear.
0 Votes
+ -
No more Firewire. Please.
MC_z 4th Mar 2011
@systemx
I've been in the pro audio business for decades. I can't think of a technology that's been a bigger P.I.T.A. than Firewire. It won't be missed around here.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
lelandhendrix@... 5th Mar 2011
@systemx I agree. My MOTU Traveler and RME Fireface are great kit, and I achieve much lower latency than with my Edirol USB products.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
notme403@... 4th Mar 2011
Well, I can hardly wait.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: How we'll roll with Thunderbolt
prof.ebral 4th Mar 2011
USB 3.0 may suffice for now, but not further down the road. Ports like USB are difficult to keep changing, so going with Thundrbolt now is a decision to work with one port for the long term.
Frankly, I see the advent of any reasonably affordable high performance I/O port to be a good thing, regardless of
(a) what it is called
(b) how it might compare to 'obscure' Firewire.

Sure, 90% of your mundane consumers probably won't be able to recognize a Firewire port ... but they also aren't able to differentiate SATA-vs-eSATA or a mini-vs-micro USB ... and probably not an eSATA-vs-miniUSB either!

The bottom line remains the same: real consumers care about real capabilities. Thunderbolt definitely has what it takes to make the higher-end professional market happy, and it really doesn't matter how many eSATA enamored Geeks are upset that it isn't free.

-hh
0 Votes
+ -
SCSI
mediumcool 4th Mar 2011
SCSI can be quite fast?a lot faster than ADB and parallel!
0 Votes
+ -
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix