ie8 fix

Internet freedom for corporations - not you

By | November 1, 2010, 8:23am PDT

Opponents of net neutrality recently showed how ugly it will be if they win. The Fox network blocked Cablevision Internet subscribers from viewing Fox content on the web. Internet freedom, it seems, is for corporations, not individuals.

The dispute
Fox network was arguing with Cablevision over how much Cablevision would pay for Fox content on its cable TV channels. Fox blocked Cablevision’s access to its TV shows first. OK.

Then Fox blocked Cablevision users from viewing Fox shows on Hulu.com. Fox must believe that the Internet is nothing more than a packet-switched cable network.

Corporate shills hailed Fox’s move as a blow for corporate freedom. “Why shouldn’t a content creator be able to limit access to content they’ve published on the web?” they asked.

Because it’s a really bad idea? If you don’t want to put it on the web, don’t put it on the web. Problem solved.

The monopoly problem
But Fox wants to put their content on the web. And they want to control which ISPs get access to it. And that’s going too far.

Large corporations have always fought for monopolies. Monopolies mean predictable, reliable profits and less turmoil for the company.

But Americans realized over 100 years ago that while companies may like monopolies they can be bad for the country. One problem: monopolies use their power to crush competitors and gain monopolies in other markets.

Monopolies in the United States are not illegal. However, when Microsoft used its desktop monopoly to crush Netscape’s browser - which led to years of Internet Explorer stagnation - that was illegal.

Not the 1st time
Back in the 1920s movie studios sought to control all movie distribution. The major studios bought virtually all of the movie theaters in the US, crushing independent theater operators.

The problem: studios no longer had to compete for theater owner’s attention. They could produce anything and still get the dollars of unwitting movie goers.

It took 20 years, but the Supreme Court ruled that the studios had to give up theater ownership. Further, rules were established to give theater owners some rights in the movie booking process.

The Storage Bits take
Like the movie studios in the 1920s major media companies would love to be able to control all distribution of their products at terms most favorable to them. This is understandable. But that doesn’t make it right.

We all agree that media companies should compete for our attention. But they shouldn’t use our attention to force us to use their preferred Internet provider.

Internet service providers should compete on the basis of the quality and speed of the service, not access to sites. Content producers are free to charge for access, but they shouldn’t block your ISP to favor other ISPs.

If they can block certain sites on a whim, what is to stop them from blocking access to your cloud storage provider? Or your photo site?

Pseudo-libertarians ignore corporate threats to our liberties. They decry “government control” as if setting rules for corporate conduct is “control.” Does the referee “control” a football game?

“We the people” are the government. If we don’t like what our representatives are doing we can vote them out. When did you ever vote out a corporate president?

Comments welcome, of course. Speaking of voting, tomorrow is election day in United States. If you don’t vote you are no better than the poor schlub in Burma who can’t vote. Put down your smartphone or notebook and VOTE! And tell your friends to vote too.

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Robin Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small.

Disclosure

Robin Harris

Robin Harris is a president of TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm in northern Arizona. He also writes StorageMojo.com, a blog which accepts advertising from companies in the storage industry, and has a 25 year history with IT vendors. He has many industry contacts, many of whom are friends and all of whom he has opinions about. Robin has relationships with many companies in the technology industry. Every company he writes about may have sought to influence his opinion through carefully-crafted marketing messages and self-serving white papers, gifts ranging from desk calendars, t-shirts, lunches and trips as well as analyst or consulting assignments. He also invests in some technology companies. He may accept payment for services in stock as well. Robin discloses financial investments in or client relationships with companies named in Storage Bits. To help readers sort out the gold from the dross in his writings, Robin tries to communicate his reasons as clearly as he can. If you agree, you are intelligent and discerning. If you disagree, well, you disagree. In all cases, Robin encourages readers to subject everything they read, see or hear on the internet or from politicians to some simple questions: * What assumptions are implicit in the world view and judgments of the author? * What, if any, is the factual basis for the opinions the author expresses? * Is it reasonable, logical and clear? Your critical faculties: use ‘em or lose ‘em!

Biography

Robin Harris

Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small. He introduced a couple of multi-billion dollar storage products (DLT, the first Fibre Channel array) to market, as well as a many smaller ones. Earlier he spent 10 years marketing servers and networks. After leaving corporate life he founded TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm. He also developed StorageMojo into one of the top storage industry blogs.

Robin writes, consults, coaches and lives among the mountains of northern Arizona.

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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
FAULKNE 13th Oct
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the highway system. NOBODY should be able to limit or control access. Certain rules may be OK, like speed limits and safety requirements on the roads. Other than that, everybody should have unrestricted access.

If you do not want anybody to take your stuff, don't leave it on the highway shoulder.
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@Economister

Agreed. We really need the FCC to tell thee companies "YOU ARE COMMON CARRIERS, PERIOD AND DONE WITH!" and move on!
@Lerianis10 @Economister

Huh? Did you even read and understand the article? This has nothing to do with a carrier refusing access to anything or anyone. It is the CONTENT PROVIDER that's doing the blocking.
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Well...
Economister Updated - 1st Nov 2010
@aep528

don't be so quick to judge. The bigger context was net neutrality (read the first sentence) and that is what I commented on. My last sentence was directed more towards the specific blog subject.

Maybe you should think about your own reading and understanding.
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@Economister the highway system. Sounds really good except...how about them toll roads?
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@richdave

Awesome!
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Yes, how about them.
Economister 1st Nov 2010
@richdave

EVERYBODY is still allowed to travel, and EVERYBODY pays the same (adjusted for vehicle size maybe).

I would be perfectly happy to pay a fee to have a high speed fiber optic link to my house OR to upgrade the internet backbone, as long as EVERYBODY can still access it (and everybody pays for the upgrade).

You did not think that one through very well, did you.
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Re: Toll Roads
osreinstall 1st Nov 2010
The internet is a highway to hell, but I pay my tolls every month to access this freaking road. Besides Fox really did do them a favor. Now block the rest of us and spare us the fear drama.
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@Economister

Not quite. In order to use our highway systems, you must be licensed to do so, and only by agreement between states is the license from one valid in another. The use of our highway systems are not considered a Right, but a privilege. Secondarily, there are toll roads, roads owned by entities other than the state, or in which the state has determined that users must pay to help defer the costs of construction and maintenance, wherein you are not allowed to use the roads without paying for the privilege. The same is true of websites.

Fox, being a private owner of property has chosen to charge a fee for the use of their property (toll road). As the toll has not been paid, they have refused access to the road.

Secondarily, the State of Fox is in negotiations with the State of Cablevision over the extension of usage privilege in the State of Fox by the citizens of the State of Cablevision. As the State of Cablevision has not reached an agreement with the State of Fox, the State of Fox does not recognize the State of Cablevision drivers licenses held by the citizens of the State of Cablevision, making them ineligible to drive on the roads of the State of Fox.

Understand it now?
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I like that!
richdave 1st Nov 2010
@Dr. John A little wordier than what I said, but you really have to lay it out there sometimes.
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Incorrect.....
dtroyerSMU 1st Nov 2010
@Dr. John ...you have freedom to negociate the US highways and roads by foot (thus free-way). There is no license to walk anywhere. The only time a license is involved is in a propelled vehicle of any type (although in most states, a bicycle is not licensed, just laws on safety i.e. wear a helmet - although these rules may not appy constitutionally but are in place). The Internet is a road that has no restrictions to travel (since this is a right in the US to freely travel from state to state). But, Cablevision is not responsible for those who freely travel (since a URL is an address on a free road) to certain sites. This is plain idiotcracy on Fox's part, trying to control the USERS thru a ROAD provider! WHATS NEXT? Taxed internet travel? There is no logic in what Fox is trying to do. It is the responsibility of the SITE or ADDRESS to control ITS traffic, not the ROAD provider, PERIOD!
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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
Lerianis10 Updated - 2nd Nov 2010
@Dr. John
Wrong. The Feds were the ones who mandated that licenses from one state when it comes to motor vehicle licenses were good in EVERY SINGLE STATE, in order to keep some very nasty things from cropping up.

The states keep on SAYING that it is only through their magnanimous nature that they allow other states licenses, but the fact is that the feds told them "Honor them, or we will mandate a NATIONALIZED license system!" back in the 1960's.
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@Dr. John

What a wonderful debate! But your analogy is fundamentally flawed. Fox is a *content* provider, not a state. And it's in an argument for some reason with Cablevision, which is a form of toll road owner, that services people wanting to drive from point A to point B.

What is happening is more like store Fox deciding to block users of toll road Cablevision (as opposed to, say, toll road Verizon) from entering their store, unless the toll road *owner* pays up. Where's the sense in that? In my view their is none, it's sheer profiteering with no value-add.

Many people don't have a choice of which toll roads to use any more than they have a real choice in ISPs. The net neutrality debate started by ISPs wanting to sell us, their user base, to content providers as a way to make up for a flawed business model they stuck themselves with - which was providing unlimited bandwidth plans in the dialup days and then going "Oh crap! Our interconnect costs are skyrocketing because YouTube is so popular". But instead of charging high bandwidth users for their consumption, and becoming uncompetitive, they went looking for new funding sources by suggesting content providers should pay for access to their users. No value add, but the result is that the ISP I'm stuck with starts to determine where I can go. And worse, it's totally anti-competitive because new content providers can't afford to compete with established operations to pay every ISP for access to their users - innovation suddenly becomes impossible, and you feed the monopoly whether you like it or not.

This is just the same situation in reverse - the content provider is trying to get extra revenue from the ISP with no value add, and the users are getting cut out and can do nothing about it.

If Fox wants more revenue, they should charge the end users. Simple as that. Then users like me can decide whether store Fox is so expensive that I'll stay on my toll road Cablevision and drive to a different store to get my content yummies.
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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
BlueCollarCritic 8th Nov 2010
@dtroyerSMU

The Feds also bully the states thru the threat of with holding highway funds if the state doe snot do as the Feds require. Even though this is highly unconstitutional (The federal governement exherting a power over the state not authorized to it thru the use of taxes) they do it anyway because we as the public care only about being able to drive and not who controls the power to regulate that.
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@BlueCollarCritic

And, that is why I oppose "net neutrality." For when the government sticks its foot in the door you get... oxymorons. So "net nuetrality" is expected to be anything but the internet or neutrality. I expect politics, special interests, and general loss of freedoms.... But hey, Americans are all about giving away their unearned freedoms. We assume the worst of greedy corporations, are employers, bankers, millionaires, and so on and so forth. But we give government a free pass on our skepticism. Suddenly, they are our champions. They can lie, cheat, steal, and sometimes even that negligent homicide and we'll forgive the politicians and even reelect them year after year....
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RE:Yes, how about them.
richdave 1st Nov 2010
@Economister >>>You did not think that one through very well, did you.
Thought it through well enough for you. Do you know what a parkway is?
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This article is complete rot
pranavb99@... 1st Nov 2010
>"Back in the 1920s movie studios sought to control all movie distribution. The major studios bought virtually all of the movie theaters in the US, crushing independent theater operators.

The problem: studios no longer had to compete for theater owner?s attention. They could produce anything and still get the dollars of unwitting movie goers."

Movie goers are "unwitting"? They have no choice in whether to see a movie? Buying independent theater operaters "crushes" them? Sounds like a great business model - just create a theater and a movie studio will buy you.

The government is like a referee which favors the larger, stronger team - regulations unequally raise the cost of doing business for small businesses. Only governments can grant monopolies - think state-sponsored corporations which exist as long as the state does vs. the turnover of Fortune 500 companies.
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@pranavb99@...
"Only governments can grant monopolies - think state-sponsored corporations which exist as long as the state does vs. the turnover of Fortune 500 companies."

Mmm, no Monopolies occur quite naturally even in a totally free market with no government involvement. Creating barriers to trade to keep out smaller competitors is ALWAYS a more profitable business strategy than competing on quality and price.
We all know you are a lover of all things Apple but Jobs himself is doing something very similar to try and kill Google TV, a major competitor to Apple's epic failure in Apple TV.

Jobs has decided that the OS you use while requesting an HTTP stream should be grounds for you to be denied access if that OS competes with an Apple product:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/home-theater/broadcast-networks-blocking-google-tvs-access-to-shows-on-their-websites/4224
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Jobs
Altotus 1st Nov 2010
Yea we know what kind of job Jobs has out for everyone!
@NonZealot
This article has nothing to do with Apple. Flagged for trolling.
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Apple not mentioned
use_what_works_4_U 8th Nov 2010
@NonZealot
Neither Apple nor Steve Jobs are mentioned in this article. OS X and iOS are not mentioned. TV content sold through iTunes is not mentioned. You have posted the most epic of FAILs here.
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Is that really the issue Robin?
John Zern 1st Nov 2010
Couldn't it be as simple as Fox wanting people to come to their own site to view shows, as opposed to Cablevision's web site.

With ad money to be made on the sites, Would ZDNet allow someone to use ZDNet's articles on a non-affiliated web site for someone else's gain?

Why would it be any different with shows online?
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@John Zern

Where in the article does it say that Cablevision was providing the content through their own size? The article provides no details on how Cablevision customers were accessing the content.

FTA: "On Saturday afternoon, Cablevision Internet subscribers were blocked from viewing Fox content online, a move that extends the companies' television retransmission fees dispute to the Web."

so... [Citation Needed]
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@John Zern
Fox blocked Cablevision subscribers access to Hulu.com - not to a Cablevision site. Fox is a part owner of Hulu so presumably they want as many viewers as they can.
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I understand, now
John Zern 1st Nov 2010
I was reading under the assumption it was being transmitted thru Cablevision, but I see now you where talking about via Cablevison network, nothing more.
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What drivel!
P. Douglas Updated - 1st Nov 2010
If I place a document on the Internet, I shouldn't be able to regulate who has access to it? Does this mean that what Facebook should be doing, is forgoing its customers' privacy, and making all their data publicly available? It is one thing to say that companies shouldn't block access to someone else's data, it is another thing to say that companies (unlike individuals) don't have a right to regulate distribution of their own data. The most net neutrality rules should stipulate (assuming we'll have them), is that companies must provide reasonable access to all available data on the Internet.
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@P. Douglas
Of course you can. That's what Dropbox and cloud backup services do. But when you've published your content to the public on a public site you should allow every ISP access to your site - not just the ones you like.
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And who are you ...
P. Douglas 1st Nov 2010
... to tell me what to do? And if an individual or a company doesn't agree with you, you are going to steam roll it over with your will? And this is what you consider fair? Please!
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Utter nonsense!
adornoe@... 1st Nov 2010
A company's website is not "public" in the sense that you're using the term. You sound like you're defining public as "on the internet, and therefore, free for anyone that has internet access and can get to the site".

A company's website is private property and they are not obligated to make it accessible to everyone. There is such a thing as "content" involved, which is not necessarily free; therefore, if a company wants to charge for it, then that's a business decision into which no one but the company should have a say. That includes no congressional or government intervention into the content provider's property.

Public does not mean "government provided" and "government controlled", and therefore, belonging to the "public" at large. But, the content provider is not a "public" entity, and if the government was going to regulate prices (free or with fees), and it also controlled/decided who provides the content, then you're not talking about "a free and open" internet anymore. You're talking about a system controlled by government, and when a system is controlled by government, it is not "free" (as in "freedoms") at all.
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@P. Douglas
frgough 1st Nov 2010
Why, he's the morally superior ruler of the unenlightened. You see, it is right and proper for him to dictate what everyone must do because he is your superior both morally and intellectually. In his world, business is inherently evil, and the state is inherently noble, therefore the state has the moral duty force business to do his will.

And because he is actually intellectually inferior (despite his presumptions), he fails to comprehend that a business is nothing more than fellow individuals organized toward a common goal.
Why, he's the morally superior ruler of the unenlightened. You see, it is right and proper for him to dictate what everyone must do because he is your superior both morally and intellectually.

@frgough
Well some people are just smarter than you, that's all. You just don't make the grade, it's that simple.
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@P. Douglas I don't think the issue is blocking who, but rather how. The same person may or may not garner access depending on how they arrive (which ISP). It might backfire, though, as folks arrive and decide that Fox's website is broken, rather than blocked.
@Robin

Where, exactly is the monopoly here? It is one company refusing to distribute to customers of another company. That's no different that a company pulling its product out of Walmart due to a business dispute even though no other store in certain areas carry that product. Just because a company is greedy does not make it a monopoly.
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@aep528

Or it's a business discriminating against people based on who their ISP is...

That's like a gas station refusing to sell you fuel because of which on-ramp you took to get on the freeway. Or because you aren't driving the car they think you should.

Fox has no right to treat Cablevision customers any differently than Comcast customers or AT&T customers. Refusing to deal with someone because they have a relationship with someone that you don't like is discrimination.
who publishes their content. At least in a free society. I love how people who grab their pitchforks and demand a business cave to their demands are the ones who accuse said business of greed.
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@frgough
They only provide the means to access it! A great difference here. It is up to the Internet surfer to access and PUBLISH it to there brower and ultimately their Video and Audio outputs on their computer. Please get your facts straight.
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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
PlayFair Updated - 1st Nov 2010
@dtroyerSMU

You're actually wrong. Web browsers do not publish anything, unless you're building a wyswyg site.

i.e. Microsoft Publisher was for publishing a website to the internet. The reader does not do the publishing.

Just as with a book, the publisher is the one who makes the books available for reading, not the readers.
The slippery slope is getting steeper by the day. Thank you for the warning; however, not enough people will heed it until it is too late. That's what the corporations are counting on.

Thank you for the encouragement to vote. I always looked at it this way: if I don't vote, I give up my right to complain about it.

If you don't know who to vote for, know who you want to vote against. Or ask some well-meaning fool (there's always one around) how to vote. Then do the opposite. (attributed to Robert A. Heinlein)
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that the state will deny freedom to your fellow citizens (business owners) in order to buy your vote? I guess as long as the teat gives you the milk, you'll put everyone else in shackles.
@frgough
It's not the business owners I'm worried about. It's the mega-corporations who have bought out our elected officials in order to make sure the game goes their way. "The State" (meaning elected representatives) isn't really interested in buying my vote; they're paying lip service to it while they're really listening to the lobbyists who finance their campaigns and post attack ads. They're also doing their best to convince people like you that people like me that see the injustice are "un-American." Get ready for the 1950s (McCarthyism) all over again, folks.
A referee can be crooked and bought, or he can have his own personal preferences. There is no such thing as a person who is completely unbiased or that can't be compromised.

Now, when it comes to congress and to the presidency, and to any other level of government, the referees are politicians, many of whom can be bought off easily, and who very often vote along political party lines. That is not "unbiased" and that is not "neutral refereeing". Party lines are not neutral reference points. So, your analogy is complete garbage.


Let's look at the referees that you advocate for control, or legislating of the internet and cable and ISPs...

Now, what happened with Obamacare? The majority of the American people were against it, and still are. But, the referees, were exclusively from one political party, that being the democrats, and thus, we ended up with a very partial political party making very major life altering decisions for the whole of the country. Who won the ballgame? Certainly, it wasn't the people of the U.S. It was the politicians who had a pre-defined agenda, and forced that agenda on the people, thus, the ballplayers, i.e., the American citizens and the healthcare organizations and doctors and nurses, all fell to the very faulty and agendized decisions from the "elected" referees from one side of the political aisle, namely, the democrats.

Now, we, the American people, are wanting to undo that decision and are trying to get the game and its decisions declared null-and-void, and we're trying to get that game replayed.

So, congress is never to be trusted with the decision-making which rightfully belongs in the private sector, even if we highly disagree with many or most of those corporations. The free-market system has a way of dealing with, and punishing those that make wrong-headed decisions.

Now, FOX is not the only news and entertainment organization around, and there is plenty of competition. People don't have to pay for FOX's programming if they don't wish to. If anything, it will hurt FOX because their programming won't be viewed as much as they used to, and their competition can gain or surpass them.

FOX's programming is the property of NewsCorp, and if they wan't to control how and when and where that programming is be made available, then so be it. It is not for congress to decide how FOX or the cable companies or the ISPs operate. When the time comes that a monopoly has indeed been formed through lack of competition or through unfair competition, then that would be the time for FOX to worry about congress's power over monopolistic practices.

For the time being, you sound like just another liberal advocate for "neutrality" and for government intervention, without any real grounds for congressional legislation or even oversight.

BTW, have you noticed that NewsCorp is a very minor part of the totality of the news and entertainment pie? Why not go after the much bigger slice of the pie, which is the rest of the broadcasting and media and entertainment industry?
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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
Robin Harris Updated - 1st Nov 2010
@adornoe@...
Of course referees can do a bad job - but you'll notice we still have them. That's because, despite their flaws, they play an important role.

The Founders were well aware of many potential flaws in government. That's why we have the separation of powers and the Bill of Rights, among other safeguards.

Common carrier status - which has a 150 year history in the US, something conservatives ignore - for ISPs would eliminate any media conglomerate's ability to punish Internet users for using the "wrong" ISP. That's a good thing and yes, the government has often acted over the last 200 years to set rules for businesses.

Fox can publish or not, I could care less. But once they do publish, they do not have the right to tell me which ISP I have to use to see their content. And that is exactly what they've done here.

As for the contention that I'm somehow anti-business: I've worked in business for over 30 years, run my own business and hold an MBA. But unlike those whose education ended with "Atlas Shrugged" I've studied business and understand why it needs a referee.
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MBA or not, your argument is still absolutely wrong.

But, hey, there are many MBAs who advocate socialism, just like you. In fact, most of the democratic party's agenda is socialism. So, your MBA is only as good as the lunacy you advocate.

Of course referees can do a bad job - but you'll notice we still have them. That's because, despite their flaws, they play an important role.

Yeah, referees are still needed, and for the most part, the do a good job.

But, what I said is that your analogy to referees in the sport world is very flawed. The referees in government are "politicians", and as I stated, they come with a pre-defined agenda and with a pre-defined outcome for the ballgame, so your analogy still stinks, MBA or not.

Common carrier status - which has a 150 year history in the US, something conservatives ignore - for ISPs would eliminate any media conglomerate's ability to punish Internet users for using the "wrong" ISP. That's a good thing and yes, the government has often acted over the last 200 years to set rules for businesses.

No matter how much you try to rationalize or justify your argument, it's still flawed.

Just because a system has a lengthy history in operation does not mean that its a good system or that it operates perfectly or better than any alternate system. The roman numeral system was in operation for a long time until the decimal system of numbers was "invented". So, should we have kept the Roman number system just because "it worked"? When something can be done differently and perhaps better, then, it might be time for a change.

But, the internet is a system which has been working fine for a long time and with no need for federal regulations. Now, just because some people don't like the way FOX carries out iit's business, some people believe it's time for government to step in to basically, dictate how FOX will do business. The argument I presented in my post above still stands. FOX has a right to run it's business as it sees fit, and if that means deciding how FOX's content is going to be delivered, that's not for government to step in to derail that decision. Let the free-market system decide. Most times, the free-market system works a lot better than government intrusion to force changes.

Fox can publish or not, I could care less.

But, you are caring, otherwise, you would not have written your piece.

But once they do publish, they do not have the right to tell me which ISP I have to use to see their content. And that is exactly what they've done here.

FOX has a right to do with "THEIR CONTENT" as they wish. That's the free-market system. Government intrusion would interfere with FOX's business decisions. Government interference is only meant to decide winners and losers, while the free-market system is a better decider for "winners and losers".

As for the contention that I'm somehow anti-business: I've worked in business for over 30 years, run my own business and hold an MBA. But unlike those whose education ended with "Atlas Shrugged" I've studied business and understand why it needs a referee.

You are anti-business. No matter how much you want to deny it.

Anytime you insert government into business decisions, the decider is government, and not businesses. That's anti-business.

And, you being a liberal, you should at least be able to understand that, the general approach by your party is to control and legislate, and to decide, through that control and legislation, the winners and losers, and the direction which government wants to lead the economy. In capitalism, government intrusion is "anti-business", and by you advocating government intrusion, you yourself are "anti-business", MBA or not.

Furthermore, Atlas Shrugged is something which very likely could be of benefit to you. And, believe it or not, I haven't read it. I've learned of its contents and its lesson through a lot of conversations and a lot of reading, but not by directly reading the book. I don't need to read that book in order to understand capitalism or free-market competition, or how damaging big government is, or how spending without controls is never good for any economy, or how heavy regulations are mostly damaging and counterproductive to businesses, or that, determining winners and losers is not the function of government and always has the opposite effect from what was intended.

Perhaps what you need is an education in real capitalism and not one where an MBA tends to lead you to believe that, just because you have that degree, that you know better than a true capitalist, how an economy should be run.

From the sounds of it, your MBA might as well have been honorary and not a true degree in business. But, when it comes to an MBA, perhaps it is true because, business administration is not the same as being a true believer in the free-market system. I've known quite a few people with degrees in business administration, and a lot of them were very clueless about the free-market system. You remind me of them.
  • Flagged
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Again wrong.......
linux for me 5th Nov 2010
@Robin Harris

"Fox can publish or not, I could care less. But once they do publish, they do not have the right to tell me which ISP I have to use to see their content. And that is exactly what they've done here."

Internet access to Fox's web site is not the issue here, the site is not the content that is that being blocked. What IS the issue here is the "TV" entertainment channels which users view on their "TV" that is being blocked because the carrier doesn't want to pay the price that Fox wants for their content. Your way of thinking is that a car dealer should just turn over the car you want, at the price you are willing to pay for it, rather than you paying the true price for that car. Just offer what ever you want for any item and leave with it regardless as to it's true value. Incredible!
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@adornoe@...

Based upon your reasoning, I guess that it is a bad thing to regulate utilities, the banking industry, the food manufactures, etc.

This must be what the problem in the U.S. comes down to, more mindless rhetoric.
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Bogus argument...
adornoe@... 1st Nov 2010
Regulations and even running a government monopoly, such as police departments and fire departments, are not the same as passing regulations which stifle business growth and even causes many businesses to cease operations.

Utilities are regulated by the same people who create those monopolies, namely, government. But, those "businesses" represent a pooling of the people's efforts and resources, and not individual business enterprises.

And, if you really wanted my opinion about government regulations, my answer is...

Hell no!

The government needs to stay in the business for which is was intended, and that's not to regulate or control how businesses are run. Let the free-market system run uninhibited. The only regulations that should be in place are for protecting consumers, but that's not the same as giving government regulatory power to dictate how businesses should be run or to set up minimum wages, or to dictate to banks who they're going to be lending to and when and under what conditions (I'm talking about the CRA, which caused the destruction of the economy and which has caused so much unemployment, directly and indirectly).

Government intrusion into the free-market system causes more harm than good, and we are all experiencing the harm, with the collapse of the economy. All of the current problems we're experiencing can be directly attributed to problems caused through government intrusion and regulations. Yeah, we need to make sure that the crooks on Wall-Street and in general business don't take advantage of their customers, but we don't need to have big government doing the protection. State and local laws can do a lot better job than the federal level, and those laws can be enforced through local courthouses and kept out of the federal courts and especially out of congress's grubby hands.

But, hey, let's keep going with the insanity that's got us on our knees. Stupid is as stupid does.
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RE: Internet freedom for corporations - not you
rmerchberger@... 1st Nov 2010
@aep528

Not the same thing - Walmart isn't a public site; it's private, controlled area.

No, what Robin's saying would be akin to this (albeit my example's a bit drastic...):

Let's say you set up a display on the sidewalk or in a park - a wholly public area - all about the wonders of Commodore computers. You display Amigas, Commodore 64s, maybe a couple Vic20's, even a B128 and a SuperPet. People love to visit this wondrous display. However, once you find out that some of your visitors (again - to this wholly public area) owned an Atari back in the day, you spraypaint their eyeballs black.

[[ I'd seen many of the Usenet advocacy wars... it could have actually gotten to that! ]]

[[ I suppose, in the spirit of full disclosure, I should mention that in the past I owned a couple 64Cs, a B128, a Jaguar, and still own an Amiga 4000T, an Atari 1040STF, a STacy, and a Falcon. And I still use my Tandy 200 quite often! ]]

I do believe that Fox has a right to limit exposure to their product... by getting it out any publicly accessible forums. They could put the content _only_ on their site and then require registration or even subscription to access it... If Fox chose to do that, then I'm OK with that. I wouldn't pay for it, but I wouldn't deny them that right.

If you don't want it public, *don't make it public!*
A referee can be crooked and bought, or he can have his own personal preferences. There is no such thing as a person who is completely unbiased or that can't be compromised.

Now, when it comes to congress and to the presidency, and to any other level of government, the referees are politicians, many of whom can be bought off easily, and who very often vote along political party lines. That is not "unbiased" and that is not "neutral refereeing". Party lines are not neutral reference points. So, your analogy is complete garbage.


Let's look at the referees that you advocate for control, or legislating of the internet and cable and ISPs...

Now, what happened with Obamacare? The majority of the American people were against it, and still are. But, the referees, were exclusively from one political party, that being the democrats, and thus, we ended up with a very partisan political party making very major life altering decisions for the whole of the country. Who won the ballgame? Certainly, it wasn't the people of the U.S. It was the politicians who had a pre-defined agenda, and forced that agenda on the people, thus, the ballplayers, i.e., the American citizens and the healthcare organizations and doctors and nurses, all fell to the very faulty and agendized decisions from the "elected" referees from one side of the political aisle, namely, the democrats.

Now, we, the American people, are wanting to undo that decision and are trying to get the game and its decisions declared null-and-void, and we're trying to get that game replayed.

So, congress is never to be trusted with the decision-making which rightfully belongs in the private sector, even if we highly disagree with many or most of those corporations. The free-market system has a way of dealing with, and punishing those that make wrong-headed decisions.

Now, FOX is not the only news and entertainment organization around, and there is plenty of competition. People don't have to pay for FOX's programming if they don't wish to. If anything, it will hurt FOX because their programming won't be viewed as much as they used to, and their competition can gain or surpass them.

FOX's programming is the property of NewsCorp, and if they wan't to control how and when and where that programming is be made available, then so be it. It is not for congress to decide how FOX or the cable companies or the ISPs operate. When the time comes that a monopoly has indeed been formed through lack of competition or through unfair competition, then that would be the time for FOX to worry about congress's power over monopolistic practices.

For the time being, you sound like just another liberal advocate for "neutrality" and for government intervention, without any real grounds for congressional legislation or even oversight.

BTW, have you noticed that NewsCorp is a very minor part of the totality of the news and entertainment pie? Why not go after the much bigger slice of the pie, which is the rest of the broadcasting and media and entertainment industry?
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The Real Stupidity is Cablevision's Business Model
thinking about consequences 1st Nov 2010
Cablevision and other cable companies could solve this problem of constantly raising rates by content providers really quickly - by simply unbundling their channel offerings. Fees charged by providers get passed through, and the consumer chooses which are worth the money, and which aren't. The cable company tacks on a fee for providing the pipe and calls it done.

You would see the channel fees drop - just like the "feature channels HBO, Showtime, and Disney have come down over time - because many content providers would lose in a cost/benefit comparison.

I still haven't figured out why the cable/satellite companies are against this model - other than to prevent consumers seeing where they make their profits.

decisions have consequences
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