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New Thunderbolt RAID iMac: lessons learned

By | July 19, 2011, 7:33am PDT

The Thunderbolt RAID/iMac out of the box experience isn’t up to Apple standards. But what happens after the system stands up?

(Read my 1st report for background on some of the issues I talk about here.)

RAM up
The standard 4GB of RAM is inadequate for the 3.4GHz Sandy Bridge I7 quad-core. The Mac activity monitor shows that 8 GB should be the minimum - unless you do nothing more taxing than open 1 browser tab and read your mail - and if you want a workstation 16 GB is your sweet spot.

With 16 GB installed - which took me about 10 minutes and doesn’t void the warranty - it was a new system. My normal workload uses over 9 GB of physical RAM and swap file size stayed near 0. Once I’m back to video production I expect to use it all.

Update: I’m refering to this specific, top-of-the-line iMac configuration, not Macs in general. My MacBook Air is a real workhorse on 4GB. If you’re going to invest $2200 in this iMac, plan on adding at least 4GB or better yet, 12GB of RAM to get all the performance you’re paying for. End update.

FCP 7
My problem with Final Cut Pro was more serious than I’d hoped: I had to reinstall the entire suite from 6 DVDs. This knowledge base note explains how to recover from a failed FCP migration to a new system.

System performance
I ran Xbench on both the old system and the new iMac. The old system was a quad-core 2.66 GHz Mac Pro with some major upgrades: 300GB 10k Velociraptor drive; 1GB ATI Radeon 5770 graphics card; and 12GB RAM.

The iMac has the standard 1TB hard drive, short-stroked by partitioning, the standard 1 GB AMD Radeon HD 6970M video card, 16GB RAM, and the upgraded BTO 3.4 GHz I7 processor.

The overall Xbench score jumped from 185.51 to 269.65, a solid 45% boost. Transcoding a 2 hour, 4GB video file to H.264 took about 40 minutes - way faster than the old Mac Pro.

Thunderbolt array performance
I ran the Blackmagic Design disk speed test a couple of times on the 4 drive Promise Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID 5: once with an empty array and again when it was more than ⅓ full. There was little difference in the results.

Here’s the over-third-full results:

The little array can handle full 1080p at maximum color depth and space - for a single user workstation - and more in more common formats. Which means it could support a couple of workstations in a shared storage environment - such as with the soon-to-be-free Xsan 2 cluster file system.

Whether Xsan support for shared Thunderbolt storage will materialize is another question, but the potential is tantalizing. Imagine a couple of quad-core MacBook Pros coming in from the field, plugging into a Thunderbolt array and Xsan cluster, and sharing storage and computes with the rest of the shop. Nice.

The little array would be even faster - and safer (see RAIDfail: don’t use RAID 5 on small arrays) - configured as a RAID 0 with frequent backups. I plan to do that once I get the requisite hardware.

Running the numbers
Was it worth it? Here’s how I look at the math.

The entire kit came ≈$3,450 - BTO iMac, Thunderbolt cable, Pegasus array and 16GB RAM - plus tax. I sold my Mac Pro tower for $2k, leaving a net cost of $1450. Since the 27″ 2560×1440 display I wanted lists at $1k or more, my net cost for 45% more performance, dual Thunderbolt ports and what I expect will be a long-lived array expandable to 12TB or more is $450.

That’s a steal.

The Storage Bits take
Lessons learned:

  • Thunderbolt works as advertised: fast and seamless. I plugged my 3rd HD display into the array with no problems.
  • The latest iMacs need at least 8GB RAM to function anywhere near their potential - and 16GB is better. Luckily, non-Apple RAM is about $10/GB.
  • Surprised at how hot the iMac runs: 135 degrees F at idle. Increased fan speeds with SMCfancontrol and now it is much cooler and slightly noisier.
  • While Promise has done an admirable job on the management interface, RAID arrays are complex and non-intuitive. If you use the array as configured from the factory it is a simple plug, wait and play process. Otherwise non-sysadmins will face a steep learning curve.
  • The set-up time for a workstation-class iMac is longer than a standard iMac. Allow a day or 2 to get fully configured, data transferred and everything else configured to your liking.

Much of my long-term satisfaction with this buy depends on how Thunderbolt evolves. If it flops I won’t have the I/O options I’d like - or they’ll be expensive. But after the initial surprises - see yesterday’s report - I’m pleased today.

Comments welcome, of course. I’ll continue reporting on Thunderbolt and my experiences using it here.

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Topics

Robin Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small.

Disclosure

Robin Harris

Robin Harris is a president of TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm in northern Arizona. He also writes StorageMojo.com, a blog which accepts advertising from companies in the storage industry, and has a 25 year history with IT vendors. He has many industry contacts, many of whom are friends and all of whom he has opinions about. Robin has relationships with many companies in the technology industry. Every company he writes about may have sought to influence his opinion through carefully-crafted marketing messages and self-serving white papers, gifts ranging from desk calendars, t-shirts, lunches and trips as well as analyst or consulting assignments. He also invests in some technology companies. He may accept payment for services in stock as well. Robin discloses financial investments in or client relationships with companies named in Storage Bits. To help readers sort out the gold from the dross in his writings, Robin tries to communicate his reasons as clearly as he can. If you agree, you are intelligent and discerning. If you disagree, well, you disagree. In all cases, Robin encourages readers to subject everything they read, see or hear on the internet or from politicians to some simple questions: * What assumptions are implicit in the world view and judgments of the author? * What, if any, is the factual basis for the opinions the author expresses? * Is it reasonable, logical and clear? Your critical faculties: use ‘em or lose ‘em!

Biography

Robin Harris

Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small. He introduced a couple of multi-billion dollar storage products (DLT, the first Fibre Channel array) to market, as well as a many smaller ones. Earlier he spent 10 years marketing servers and networks. After leaving corporate life he founded TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm. He also developed StorageMojo into one of the top storage industry blogs.

Robin writes, consults, coaches and lives among the mountains of northern Arizona.

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RE: New Thunderbolt RAID iMac: lessons learned
FAULKNE 13th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
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8GB minimum and 16GB recommended for OS X? Wow. I know that OS X has gotten bloated over the years but that is ridiculous!
@toddybottom For a "workstation" that is doing video editing then 16GB does not seem to far beyond the pale. Snow Leopard works fine on 2GB on a Core Duo 2 laptop... my daughters for example, but then that is not doing a lot of demand activity like what Robin is doing for a business.
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I'm going based on Robin's report
toddybottom 19th Jul
@Jim888
"The Mac activity monitor shows that 8 GB should be the minimum - unless you do nothing more taxing than open 1 browser tab and read your mail"

4GB is only acceptable if you open 1 browser tab and read your mail? Like I said, I had heard that OS X had gotten very bloated but wow, I didn't realize it had gotten this bad.
@toddybottom

What you don't realize is, a lot of Mac users work with creative technologies, such as video/audio production, 3D modeling, production, rendering and animation, photo editing, etc. These type of processes benefit the most when sufficient RAM is installed. If you're just using MS Word and Excel and perusing the Internet, 4 GB's of memorg is very adequate.
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@gtdworak
I understand that but Robin is suggesting that 4GB is only suitable if you are opening 1 tab and checking mail. That was surprising to me but Robin is a respected OS X user, I don't think he would be wrong about that.
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@toddybottom

Don't read too much into one man's experiences .. even a respected technologist like Robin.

OS X works fine in 2 to 4 GB range on laptops and iMacs for normal activities that you cited.

However, with RAM prices as low as they are, the old adage, the more RAM, the better is a trusted chestnut worth following.
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@kenosha7777 However, with RAM prices as low as they are, the old adage, the more RAM, the better is a trusted chestnut worth following.
Oh, brings me back to the "good old days" spending $1,500 on a 128 MB RAM upgrade because 3D Studio Max was chocking my system when rendering sad
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@toddybottom

Did you read the article b4 making inflammatory assaults?

4GB is great for OS X on most systems.

I have often used 256mb Macs running OS X and outperforming Windows with 1GB.

512MB is a good working amount for decent OS X use. 1GB is great.

So - no OS X is not bloated at all.

Sorry - no points for your spin assault.
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Of course I read the article
toddybottom Updated - 19th Jul
@richardw66
Did you read my post? I'm surprised that it was confusing.

Regardless, I'm impressed that you were able to get Snow Leopard running with only 256MB of RAM. Apple lists 1GB as the minimum. I'm also trying to think if Apple ever sold a 256MB RAM Intel Mac. Not positive but I would be surprised if they ever did.

And what does Windows have to do with this?

Sorry that you felt it was a "spin assault" (I can only guess at what you mean by this but it doesn't sound good). I was merely expressing my surprise at Robin's statements.
@richardw66 :

Bull54!t. I needed to upgrade my MBP from 4GB to 8GB doing nothing more than standard engineering work, nothing near as taxing as what Robin is doing.
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@brichter Yet I have absolutely no problems working in Photoshop, Premiere Pro and After Effects all at the same time on my MBP with 4GB.
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Funny, I'm fine here
itguy10 19th Jul
on a Macbook with 4GB. And I usually have a lot going on. It's a no brainer if you have heavy needs you need heavy RAM.
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@itguy10 My MBA with 4GB is fine too, for the SSD makes page swaps almost invisible.

One of the issues is, no doubt, the fact that I have over 8 million pixels in my 3 displays, so I keep a lot of windows open. I think there's also an issue that with more CPU cycles one needs more RAM to feed it - unless you're idling along.
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@Robin Harris

I hope you don't let your SSD handle the page swaps... SSD's only have limited amount of reads and writes they can handle over a lifetime so if you wear it out too fast because you have low memory and are constantly doing page swaps you're going to be buying a new hard drive sooner than expected.
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RE: New Thunderbolt RAID iMac: lessons learned
snoop0x7b Updated - 19th Jul
@Robin Harris You're probably not swapping much then... Or atleast your definition of invisible is different from mine. Even swapping on an SSD is 600MB/s vs. 8000MB/s for DDR2-1066. The math doesn't indicate invisible for a high intensity application.

Plus, it's fairly hard to waste 4GB of ram unless you're doing something fairly intense like running a java enterprise server + oracle or photoshopping a 20 layer image.
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@FormalForker

I am sure he will be long gone by the time that happens. New SSD have long life spans, and the larger the drive, the longer the life. It's not an issue.
@Robin Harris :

Robin already said his swap size is near zero...
@Robin Harris There is no relationship between CPU cycles / cores and the amount of memory required to "feed it". You could peg all cores with code executing in the cache alone (optimal for speed). Conversely you could have an enormous amount of memory allocated and have very little CPU activity. It simply depends on the # of applications running and their memory requirements. If you had 32 cores at 5 Ghz you should be able to do normal computing easily with 2G of ram regardless of OS (less with Linux). But who wants to do normal computing on such a system if it existed? happy. You do utilize memory more efficiently (generally) with 32 bits vs 64 bits so that is a factor.
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Memory
samgreene 19th Jul
I just put 8GB into a new 17" macbook pro. The statement that you need 8GB for "nothing more taxing than open 1 browser tab and read your mail", isn't quite true. If you use Aperture, you'll want it. Final Cut X, will want it. I was fine doing audio production with Logic on 4GB AND 10 tabs of chrome, iTunes and some other nonsense running. But for $100 you can get the 8GB - so why the heck not?!
16GB? Yep. Lesson learned, alright: Don't buy one. Sheesh.
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RE: New Thunderbolt RAID iMac: lessons learned
Earthling2 Updated - 19th Jul
Good job selling an old tower for $2000. Parts for a comparable PC cost less than $1000.
someone is willing to pay for it. And just because you don't think a MacPro tower is worth $2000 doesn't mean someone who does is foolish or an idiot. It simply means they have a different valuation scale than you do. Rants like yours are the mark of an insecure person, who talks big because he's not really confident in his decision.
And the number of pixels on your video display? That's handled by your GPU, system RAM has nothing to do with it unless you are using shared RAM for video, which the iMac does not. How about showing us a screen shot of your system memory with 4 GB installed and let us see what your wired, used, free, etc. is. BTW, page ins don't mean you're out of RAM. Page outs are the problem.
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WOW. Just a few takeaways...
UrNotPayingAttention 19th Jul
For one, I hope to never hear about Windows bloat, Windows hogging resources, or having to upgrade hardware to support the latest Windows

"The Mac activity monitor shows that 8 GB should be the minimum - unless you do nothing more taxing than open 1 browser tab and read your mail - and if you want a workstation 16 GB is your sweet spot."

Seriously? I need 8 GB RAM if I'm gonna do more than just that?

Also... Never again should an Apple fanboi utter "TCO", unless they're describing their complete disregard for it: A brand new, out the box Mac (Approx $2200, mind you) immediately needs a, what?, $600 RAM upgrade???

Apple quality? Let's see, for a $2200 machine, here are the author's words: "Surprised at how hot the iMac runs: 135 degrees F at idle. Increased fan speeds with SMCfancontrol and now it is much cooler and slightly noisier."

hmmm, yeah, sounds like quality to me

Oh, and let's not forget... the update (and the update for the update!) that was required to be able to support the Array! Not to mention that was on top of 500 MB of add'l updates.

...all for a "brand new, out of the box" Mac
@chmod 777

Hmmm... if you think Robin paid $600 for a 16GB RAM upgrade, you might want to reconsider taking that remedial reading course. He clearly stated that his RAM was around $10/GB so around $120 if he added 12GB or $160 if he replaced the original 4GB memory.

Around here, a video editing workstation (Windows, Linux or OS X) gets 16GB of RAM -- the cost of the memory is recovered rapidly as the user is more productive. A positive ROI makes selling to the bean counters much easier.
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@DNSB It has to do with a Mac, do you honestly think that chmod 777 is going to let any of those facts get in his way?
We have five video editors on Mac Pros. Yes, they all have 16 GBs of RAM installed. It makes a huge difference when rendering files because time is money. For our other users, 2-4 GBs is plenty for mail, web, Word and Excel running Leopard; 4 GBs for Snow Leopard.
Raid 0 is never safer than any array with shared parity. Shame on you for saying that. I'll take less capacity + a subset of my data over none of my data any day. What you should be saying is a RAID is not a backup solution and that you should back up your data no matter what. Saying that would be correct, and the same lesson would apply to both RAID5 and RAID0. To me loss of loss of capacity is preferable to loss of data. You're not backing the data up continuously in real time... So it makes a lot of sense to have an array with shared parity.

Also my experience with xsan has been awful. It doesn't manage locks correctly for concurrent access, if a client disconnects unexpectedly xsan can leave a file locked. As far as I know they haven't overcome it yet. The only draw I see of an XSan over a lower end EMC or Oracle SAN is it may be a bit easier to use. But all in all, the quality doesn't compare to the real thing. My experience with them has indicated that XSans are nothing but trouble.

Also: 4GB of ram is inadequate for anything more than browsing with 1 tab open? Seriously? Why? We have a snow leopard running mac mini with a core2duo and 2GB that's perfectly happy as a test machine for our application's mac distribution. Adding 2 more CPUs shouldn't really impact ram usage because the default case should be shared memory with the kernel providing locks to pages by which CPU is accessing that segment. See semaphores.
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RE: New Thunderbolt RAID iMac: lessons learned
Robin Harris Updated - 19th Jul
@snoop0x7b
I stand by the comment. RAID 5 gives civilians a false sense of security and, as you know, is not a substitute for backup.

Since RAID 5 rebuilds fail a significant portion of the time, I prefer to skip RAID 5's lower performance, higher cost and complex management in favor of daily drive cloning that will get me back on line faster should an array drive fail.
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"The Mac activity monitor shows that 8 GB should be the minimum - unless you do nothing more taxing than open 1 browser tab and read your mail - and if you want a workstation 16 GB is your sweet spot."

Should that be "if you do nothing more..."? That "unless" wording is very confusing.

For starters, I've had my Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro with 4GB of RAM for the last two years, right before Snow Leopard came out, and I've never had an issue with RAM, other than with extreme virtualization. Even editing 30 layer Photoshop/Pixelmator images, RAM has not been an issue. 4GB isn't enough for that beast to open one tab and check email? Completely untrue!

All too often do I have 40 tabs+ in a single Safari session with Safari's used memory sitting at 800MB (and yes, Safari is a memory hog), playing something like TF2 (using a gigabyte or so) with an image open in Pixelmator (using around 700MB) with my system putting along with no performance issues, other than minor graphical constraints while the game is backgrounded.
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