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Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations

By | December 14, 2009, 8:13pm PST

The US Air Force Research Laboratory has put out a request for 2200 PS3s for supercomputing applications. Just in time for Christmas.

Scientists realized years ago that the PS3 Cell processor packs a lot of computer power at a very low cost.

The PS3’s Cell Broadband Engine processor, or Cell, is a heterogenous multiprocessor. Instead of identical cores - like Intel and AMD multi-core processors -

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Sony PlayStation 3, Air Force, Sony Playstation, GPGPU, Processors, Servers, Semiconductors, Hardware, Components, Robin Harris

Robin Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small.

Disclosure

Robin Harris

Robin Harris is a president of TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm in northern Arizona. He also writes StorageMojo.com, a blog which accepts advertising from companies in the storage industry, and has a 25 year history with IT vendors. He has many industry contacts, many of whom are friends and all of whom he has opinions about. Robin has relationships with many companies in the technology industry. Every company he writes about may have sought to influence his opinion through carefully-crafted marketing messages and self-serving white papers, gifts ranging from desk calendars, t-shirts, lunches and trips as well as analyst or consulting assignments. He also invests in some technology companies. He may accept payment for services in stock as well. Robin discloses financial investments in or client relationships with companies named in Storage Bits. To help readers sort out the gold from the dross in his writings, Robin tries to communicate his reasons as clearly as he can. If you agree, you are intelligent and discerning. If you disagree, well, you disagree. In all cases, Robin encourages readers to subject everything they read, see or hear on the internet or from politicians to some simple questions: * What assumptions are implicit in the world view and judgments of the author? * What, if any, is the factual basis for the opinions the author expresses? * Is it reasonable, logical and clear? Your critical faculties: use ‘em or lose ‘em!

Biography

Robin Harris

Harris has been messing with computers for over 30 years and selling and marketing data storage for over 20 in companies large and small. He introduced a couple of multi-billion dollar storage products (DLT, the first Fibre Channel array) to market, as well as a many smaller ones. Earlier he spent 10 years marketing servers and networks. After leaving corporate life he founded TechnoQWAN, a consulting and analyst firm. He also developed StorageMojo into one of the top storage industry blogs.

Robin writes, consults, coaches and lives among the mountains of northern Arizona.

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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
yarinsiz Updated - 16th Apr 2011
Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition
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View in thread
0 Votes
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HINT: Troops need to have fun
wackoae 14th Dec 2009
I'm surprise that somebody who claims to be intelligent is unable to see the totally obvious.

And don't forget about the old word: "simulation".
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Halo...
betelgeuse68 15th Dec 2009
Wouldn't be played on those PS3s even if the Air Force wanted to.
Halo is for the 360 only. wink

-M

PS: But "Uncharted 2" would be an option!
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They will end up playing Halo on them
s_souche 15th Dec 2009
It happens that only slim PS3 are now in production,
and it also happens that the ability to run Linux was
removed from this model of the console.

I imagine that tests that resulted in the decision to
buy were made on older PS3s; solucitation is
requesting version 3 of the PS3, but as they are not
any longer manufactured, the air force will be in some
trouble, if not purchasing them, at least to service
them.



Comparison to IBM dual CBE configuration fail to
notice that PS3 has no double precision capability
while the 8K systems have.
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One would assume
ju1ce 15th Dec 2009
because of the nature of use by the US Army Sony would be happy to comply with a defacto model for them to support.
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Re: Running Linux on slim PS3
bart001fr 15th Dec 2009
I expect some hacker/hobbyist is hard at work trying to find a run-around to that little problem and it will be solved before the Air Force can get a quote back from a supplier. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Air Force has already worked their way around the Sony "linux-block" on the slim PS3's, but that they're not telling anyone.

It shouldn't be too hard to simply open one of these babies up and reverse engineer the thing and find a solution. Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a tech to do it.

Graphics artists, especially those who do animation would be grateful to be able to afford a rendering farm at $400 per cluster of 8 CPU's; at that price they could easily afford a NAS with 4 or 5 hard drives for the necessary storage.
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Halo wont run on ps3
bluefox83 15th Dec 2009
It's an xbox game. Also, if you were sony and
you got the call that the US air force wanted
2200 of your units, but they want them for a
cluster farm, I'm sure you'd be nice and make
that possible. After all, not just anyone calls
up asking for that many play station 3's.

It's a firmware issue afterall, it wouldn't be
that hard to load the old firmware on the new
machines!
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
Loverock Davidson 15th Dec 2009
I'm still shocked that the government is trying to save money.

With respect to cell processors, a single 1U server configured with two 3.2GHz cell processors can cost up to $8K while two Sony PS3s cost approximately $600.
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Why the AF wants PS3
Starman35 15th Dec 2009
The reason is simple: bang for the buck, and virus-free PPC's, of course.
With the whole world going to little-endian Intel, the virus writers will
continue to attack those, but not the remaining PPC architecture systems,
which are declining in numbers, except for the PS3's. Still, the PS3 and
XBox-360 use PPC processors, but most of them are used for gaming
rather than web surfing, so they are not as attractive as targets as the
huge Intel-based PC crowd is. Still, I wonder how Sony can sell a PS3 for
$299 - $399 with the Cell B/E, yet no one else will sell one for a
reasonable price.
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???
DNSB 15th Dec 2009
Bang for the buck. Certainly.

Viruses? Hardly a consideration -- I doubt anyone is going to be doing much web browsing, plugging their flash drive in, etc.

Cost? Sony (according to most sources I've seen) is still taking a loss on each PS3. Much as Microsoft and Nintendo, you sell the razor cheap and hope to make money on the blades. Though given the number of PS3 game consoles compared to the number of general purpose Cell computers, there is quite likely an economy of scale involved.

Hmmm... for some reason that old joke about the military procurement officer on the phone with a customer dis-service rep comes to mind.

Support: "You're not our only customer, you know."
Customer: "But we're one of the few with tactical nuclear weapons."
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Browsing isn't the only infection method
Rude Union 15th Dec 2009
I remember it was only a few years ago when a Windows machine only had to be connected to a network where an infected machine was forcing itself onto them. I also remember how it had Microsoft and anti-virus companies in a panic rushing patches out the door. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that this can happen again. I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to clean those Windows machines up. Plus, add the time it takes to maintain Windows machines; if you have 100's or 1000's of machines I would bet the PS3's are only required to participate in a DC lab would be easier to manage with fewer staff.

Also you're forgetting the cost of the flavor of Windows on each of those servers plus whatever other third party software. The PS3's come with a built-in OS and they only have to create an application to accept their jobs. I'm sure all the machines are automatically loading it from one location so software upgrades are instantaneous. Try and do that with Windows this cheaply.

This is a niche market. A system that's designed in a solid state manner would be better suited for distributed computing.
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Government spending
dheady@... 15th Dec 2009
The military is traditionally very frugal and conservative in their
purchases. The $700 toiled fiasco was perpetrated by Congress not the
military. Congress nearly always buys more than the military asks for. If
you're a Congressperson from Indiana (my home state so I won't tick
anyone but a fellow Hoosier off) and you have a toilet manufacturer in
your district you're going to see that the military buys lots of toilets and
a very high price. That keeps employed well paid voters, er, workers in
your district because of your efforts.
The toilet I most frequently used in the army was a slit trench dug with a
twelve dollar entrenching tool. But then no congressperson had a slit
trench factory in their backyard.
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Final report by USAF
s_souche 15th Dec 2009
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?
AD=ADA501732&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
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Re: USAF Report on Neurmorphic Computing
bart001fr 15th Dec 2009
Wow! It looks like these researchers are looking to build a true artificial intelligence.

What they need to do is add enough memory directly accessible by each of the eight cell processors, ie, each processor needs its dedicated memory bank of at least 16GB if they can address that. If not then we're still generations (in computer terms) away from true AI.

What this means is that Asimov's robots are not due tomorrow but they're not all that far away, at least in terms of intelligence; after that it will simply come down to reducing the actual size to fit into something about the size of 2 stacked 1KG coffee cans.

Just throw enough processors and memory at it and intelligence will eventually develop, the way they're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the problem. Just hope these guys do not forget to put in an off switch, just in case it turns Colossus on us.
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Artificial Intelligence
chucknite@... 16th Dec 2009
Perhaps they need artificial intelligence as they have no real intelligence.
Sorry , Had to say it.
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
xBeanie 1st Nov 2010
@bart001fr

True AI? Yes, 16GB that will do it!

*snigger*
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$8000???
Salonikios 15th Dec 2009
$8000 would be a bit much for a 1u server (unless you are buying just 1. I am sure that the air force would buy in large enough quantities to see this figure drop to around $4000.
Also, note that the 1U server is not very comparable to the PS3. That $4000 1U server will have:

- An advanced array controller
- Mirrored drives (SAS 15K)
- Redundant power supplies
- Redundant fans
- Redundant (teamed) nics
- Lots of memory (at this price range...around 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz)
- 2 Nehalem processors (X5550)
- Remote console capabilities
- etc, etc, etc...

It sounds like there was a need for strictly CPU intensive clustered application where the loss of some nodes would be ok. In this case the low cost of the PS3 fit the bill. My issue was that you can't really compare a PS3 to a 1u server. I am not saying one is better, they are just two different beasts.
I am glad to see the cost savings.
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Please quote for me
People 15th Dec 2009
a 1u server with 2 3.2GHz CELL processors.
0 Votes
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Was thinking Nehalem
Salonikios 15th Dec 2009
OK...I admit I was thinking Nehalem.
I took a quick peek. IBM sells the QS21 blade. List price $6995. In the quantities that the USAF is purchasing, you could easily negotiate a 40% discount. (Especially since the QS22 is out). IBM will negotiate a bigger discount on older servers. So that comes out to $4200 (at least). Factor in the chassis cost itself and any add-in modules. In this case we will go with the cheapest which is a pass through ethernet module. I wouldn't compare any switches because with the PS3's they each get a dedicated connection with probably a top of rack switch.
Total should be WELL under $5000 per blade. (remember 14 blades per chassis).

I am not arguing that the PS3 is cheaper. It is FAR cheaper. But I don't believe it is valid to compare a gaming console to an enterprise class server.
0 Votes
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Mecury Blade systems
s_souche 15th Dec 2009
IBM only produce blade server, which have a tag
price exceeding the 8K for recent versions.
Specs are not of the order of the PS3's for
these.

Mercury on the other hand produce minimalist 1U
dual proc servers based on Cell BE, with low
end specs. rates are not available from the web
site, but i guess the 8K order of magnitude are
not far from it. but for that you don't have HD
( don't need one anyway ) not redundant power
supply, and only 2Gb of ram ( should need much
either given the cell be programming model...

integrating 2000 PS3s in a server room won't be
fun to those in charge however...
0 Votes
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Check the story
DNSB 15th Dec 2009
As I read the item, the quote was for a unit with dual Cell processors not an Intel processor based unit. Taking a quick look suggests that for the number of processors they are looking for, a blade chassis/SAN would be more cost effective than multiple 1U servers but still much more expensive than the PS3s. And if you get bored waiting for a run to finish, you can always play games on a spare PS3.

Can't remember the exact specs but vaguely recall the Roadrunner uses blades with Opteron and multiple Cell processors on board to hit sustained petaFlops.
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It's the other way around
rarsa 15th Dec 2009
$8000 would be a bit much for a 1u server (unless you are buying just 1. I am sure that the air force would buy in large enough quantities to see this figure drop to around $4000.

Are you serious? this is government spending, if it costs $4000.00 the government will have to pay $8000.00.

That's how it works, not the other way around.

If you have ever had to deal with government(any government) you'll see why it costs more.
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
xBeanie 1st Nov 2010
@Salonikios

I thought the same thing. For the same money as the PS3 you could probably have use a bare bones multicore Intel machine in PC rather than rack configuration.

Had to laugh at some of the comments though e.g.:

OS - You really think that they will run these on Windows or PS3 OS???

Servicing - they wont service a node, it would be cheaper to just replace it
0 Votes
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
emiliosic 15th Dec 2009
IBM BladeServers
IBM had, for a while, Cell blades for their bladecenter
architecture.
It's fully redundant with some backplanes exceeding 10Gbps.
Assuming it would cost more than a bunch of PS3s, but it
might become cheaper to manage in the long run
0 Votes
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You do know the AF does climate and weather modeling?
Dr_Zinj 15th Dec 2009
Climate and weather models require massive parallel processing capabilities. The farther out in time you go, the bigger the globe's surface you have to account for, the more processing power you need.

Also necessary for nuclear explosion modeling.

Also necessary for modeling military-political behavior; sort of a Earth-only version of psychohistory, a concept of mathematical sociology imagined by Asimov and Campbell.
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
jduchesne@... 15th Dec 2009
The AF Isn't the only government agency using PS3s. I read an article several weeks ago in CQ Homeland Security about how U.S. Customs and Border Protection were using racks of linked older model PS3s to break passwords. If I remember, right, the arguement was that they performed the computations better and were much cheaper than the alternative.
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Skynet
rcasey101 15th Dec 2009
The neuromorphic computing reference made me think of Skynet as well. Ha ha!
0 Votes
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Where's John Connor when you need him?
IslandBoy_77 Updated - 15th Dec 2009
While Judgment Day etc will never happen, the scenario of the US military (most likely the Air Force, but possibly any of the branches really) farting about with high-end stuff that manages some degree of true AI is well within the bounds of possibility. We all know that the stuff we see "on the shelves" is at least 20 years behind what's being developed. While there are a pile of interesting "hurdles" to overcome on the road to true AI, a government organisation like the Air Force who has both the will and the means (and the access to all sorts of ancillary technology we haven't even heard of yet) AND the ability to create stuff without any commercial-viability constraints is well in a position to create SKYNET (whichever version of SKYNET one is thinking of - although for me, I'm thinking more of the one that is solely "housed" in USAF data centres, not the one from T3 that was spread all over the planet: now there was a ridiculous plot-hole!).
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How much are they paying for them?
skinsman61@... 15th Dec 2009
Is it the 299$ we all pay or
Is it $29,000.00
we all know how the government spends
I commend them on going for this than
the cpu's
0 Votes
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It is the 600 you all pay
rarsa Updated - 15th Dec 2009
Edit: I stand corrected by the post from DaDofWaR. I misread the quote. Going back I read "two PS3 for $600". I still leave my original post in shame.

Is it the 299$ we all pay or

It is the 600 you all pay. I say "you" because I don't live in the States.

Of course government will pay $600 for something that anyone else can get for $300 and still call it a bargain.
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It is the 600 you all pay
DaDofWaR Updated - 15th Dec 2009
The government is not "paying $600 for something that anyone else can get for $300". To quote from the article "while two Sony PS3s cost approximately $600". That would be $600 for two items that cost $300 each. I'm pretty sure that's what I would pay if I bought two PS3s.
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$299
Salonikios 15th Dec 2009
Exactly....why would folks believe that the USAF would pay more than list? I am sure we'll get some smart alecky response about how they pay $800 for toilet seats.
I am pretty confident that they are paying list. Why would Sony negotiate a lower price? Sony is selling at a loss. Sony will take a big hit on these if they are selling at a loss. That is 2200 PS3's for which Sony will sell zero games.
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Re: $800 toilet seats
bart001fr 15th Dec 2009
Actually they do pay that much for a toilet seat, but you should see the toilet seat in question.

24Kt gold plating to make sure it is least reactive (most inert) to the acidic or basic skins of whoever sits on it.

After all these guys think generations into the future.
0 Votes
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I stand corrected (I've edited my post) (nt)
rarsa 15th Dec 2009
nt
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Can Sony afford it?
T1Oracle 15th Dec 2009
Isn't the PS3 price subsidized by game sales and blu ray royalties?
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
RDEngineer 15th Dec 2009
This isn't new. Colleges have already built PS3's
super clusters. I remember writing a grant proposal
for such a project several years ago. This is a very
real and very valid project.

Last I heard about it Sony was planning on building
special devices to capitalize on this. In other words
a PS3 without the optical drive/ no hard drive/ and a
much faster Ethernet line. Designed for low end super
computing. But that was from a article i read over a
year ago.
0 Votes
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Better yet
midenginedrift 15th Dec 2009
Hey, if it's for the USAF, they should be getting down on some Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots.

The original and best "tactical espionage action" console game there is. grin
0 Votes
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
nukespam@... 16th Dec 2009
My coworker here just came from a research lab in Ohio as his last assignment. I showed him this article and he was like, "Yeah, we had a bunch of PS3s in series at the lab adding computational power to our wind tunnel visualizations." Pretty cool. Sony apparently loses a bunch of money every time they sell a PS3, and make up for it with $60/$70 games and making you buy extra controllers separately.
0 Votes
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
Chiatzu 17th Dec 2009
According to another web site I was reading, the Air Force has
already conducted preliminary tests with about 300 PS3s, so
evidently things have been going smashingly well and its time
to up the ante by ordering a bunch more. I hope that Sony is
able to oblige the request.

Sony lists the different models of PS3s and production status of
each (see URL preview link below to main PS3 model list page).
Note the Air Force ordered the units that were in limited
production before the new 'slim' came out. This newest PS3 is
unable to install an OS like Linux, unfortunately for the Air
Force, or perhaps they could have saved even more money by
buying the 'slim' model instead of the older one listed on their
request form.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yeg9q4c

*ahem* Blu-ray lives!
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
geeklove 21st Jan 2010
I think this sounds like a great idea. However from seeing what can happen to electronics in the desert environment of Saudi and places like that, I will say that you should really invest in some sort of protection for you machine. I saw a PS2 that came back with an Airmen friend of mine and that thing was caked in nastiness. Fine sand and extreme winds are not kind to the electronic world. Beyong that I know how rough a group of guys can be with their gadgets, the military should definately invest in some kind of vinyl cover to protect from wear and tear. Otherwise they'll have to replace them way too often. I recently used Ghost Armor to cover my PS3 and it looks sick and it is practically indestructable.
0 Votes
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RE: Why the Air Force wants 2200 more PlayStations
yarinsiz Updated - 16th Apr 2011
Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition
sesli sohbet sesli chat

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