Windows kicks Linux to the curb

Windows kicks Linux to the curb

Summary: Gosh, that didn't take long!Last July Linux had a huge opportunity to beat Windows in the red-hot netbook market (see Linux for housewives.

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Gosh, that didn't take long! Last July Linux had a huge opportunity to beat Windows in the red-hot netbook market (see Linux for housewives. XP for geeks. ). But faster than I'd expected Microsoft has kicked Linux to the curb, claiming an 80% attach rate for netbooks.

Windows 7 is the final nail in the desktop Linux market's coffin. Unless Microsoft gets stupid on pricing, it is game over for Linux netbook market share.

Linux, we hardly knew ye - on the desktop, anyway.

It is tough to compete with "free" Not that Microsoft got off easy. Their 5,000 man layoff is a direct result of the cost of competing with Linux - their client business revenue slid $335 million.

Ballmer's layoffs mean this is no one-time blip. Linux has changed the competitive landscape in a way Apple never could - after all Mac OS costs twice as much as Windows. And this is just a taste: the economics going forward are brutal.

The birth of free Windows? Windows 7 will run fine on netbooks - a smart move. But how to price it?

Linux is free, and as Moore's Law drives down netbook prices, any difference will become more obvious. For the several billion people in the developing world, even $20 for Windows 7 may be too much.

If the Window's netbook share drops below 70%, Microsoft will have no choice but to offer it for free to netbook OEMs. Sure, some nominal dollar figure will attach, but after marketing and developer support costs are figured in, it will be a wash.

This is as it should be: operating systems are becoming commodities, like a cell phone OS. The real innovation will be in netbook pricing models and new applications.

The Storage Bits take Linux has lost the fight for netbook dominance, but it has inflicted significant pain on Windows. Microsoft faces a do-or-die defense of the Windows monopoly which will no doubt be successful.

The important fact is that for the first time in decades, Microsoft is playing defense, not offense. This is good for everyone, as even a 10% Linux share is enough for a future Linux breakout if Microsoft fails to stay current or raises prices.

Apple gets to watch Linux and Windows fight. If and when Apple offers a netbook, the OS will be an integral part of the package, not a choice. And they won't be competing on price.

Comments welcome, of course. For more background on the Microsoft/netbook issues, do what I did. Read Mary Jo Foley's Microsoft blames netbook appeal, marketing costs for Windows drop and Larry Dignan's Netbooks become the bane of Microsoft here on ZDnet.

Topics: Operating Systems, Hardware, Linux, Microsoft, Mobility, Open Source, Software, Windows

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  • Lost?

    Round one did not go Microsoft's way. First and foremost, Linux pre-installed is a mainstream consumer choice now. No 3 weeks fighting EULA rejection, or stumbling on a sister site (ala Dell), right there on Dell and HP's and Acer's site, Linux. That is a staggering defeat in OEM stranglehold.

    Now, MS did and is coercing Asus and Acer to offer XP 8 to 1 over Linux, but in comes HP with it's new 1120NR Mobile Internet Experience. Home grown and rolled, this is not simply a leverage attempt over MS to get better pricing.

    Now, with Circuit City out of the picture, the only brick and mortar is BB to enforce Windows only (for the most part). That said, my last trip to BB, the salesman told me, looking for an 8 gig SSD Linux One version, the website was wrong, they didn't have one, they sell every one of them they get. They had rows and rows of HP XP based mini-notebooks.

    Now toss in the economic times, the ability of MS to pay to play on all fronts is compromised. When you have to "entice" every OEM, have a plan in place to rebate up to 100% of the cost of XP+Office as an all out assault to keep Linux out of any government, that's a HUGE number of loss leaders. And the net effect, it only forestalls the process, no companies driven out of business.

    Now, let's bring in the next whammy, ARM based netbooks. Commodity price at probably $200, and no doubt carrying Android in a big push by Google on a lot of them and what do you have, nothing great on the Windows front.

    Finally, and I have read, 7 does work well on current netbooks, but it is a self eating watermellon, basically give it away in all out attempts to forestall Linux and it then eats into your ability to pay to keep your marketshare.

    No, I don't know anyone who thought "round one" would be Linux (most thought 70-30 XP to Linux, 80-20 is not bad.)

    Aside: Can you link to your source?

    Let's see how round 2 goes (the second 6 months netbooks have been around, it really is a new market).

    As someone who has sold through use 4 Linux based netbooks, and the way I have this little machine looking and working, XP truly can't hold a candle to it, Vista is a never ran and asof right now, Windows 7 is not commercially available.

    Toss in other erosions (instant on, EVEN ON A SONY using Linux) and I doubt that many could spin only losing 20% of the market and taking a big hit on revenues as a "win".

    Time will tell, but MS is a company on the defensive on so many fronts, it has to be having Steve eating tums by the handful.

    TripleII
    TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827
    • Congratulations TripleII

      I'm happy for you and 20% is not bad. The netbook timing, when Vista was being pushed and XP trying to be phased out was the perfect storm for Linux. Along with some other factors, such as a growing dissatisfaction of Windows that is creeping into the mainstream, whether it really is from painful user experiences or part of the "It's cool to hate Microsoft" perception that is also penetrating into the mainsteam. <br><br>
      I would not be necessarily vbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbvbproud of the latter, esp. since it is no better than what the people who propogate it claim about Microsoft. <br><br>
      A full out Vista smear campaign by Apple starting as early as 2006 coupled with an all out assault on Vista via many open source web sites, designed specifically to create a horrible perception of Microsoft. <br><br>
      I would feel better, in your shoes, if it had been a win by outright preference and the fact it's "free" wasn't the secondary driver. <br><br>
      But i have a question I'm sure you can answer. How is Acer and Asus et al paying for the cost of pre-installing Linux? Do they raise the price of the hardware to compensate and wouldn't that technically be "charging" for the OS? <br><br>
      We can only see what happens going forward. I know you and others were pooh-poohing that it wasn't 70-30 for quite some time. I have to wonder if it's possible it's even slimmer than 80 -20. All swaps have been properly recorded and counted? <br><br>
      I'd say that netbooks definately play to the strength of Linux, but do you think these miniture "gadgets" (what many are calling them in reviews) are here to stay? No matter how much technology you can cram into a small space, history has taught us that size is important so be careful not to put all of your eggs in one basket. <br><br>
      Another interesting statistic would be, what does 20% of the netbook market represent in the overall global personal computer market? It has to still be quite small. I don't know offhand, do you happen to have those numbers? <br><br>
      Yep, MS is in a tight spot and it's not looking good going forward either. ON the full size laptop/desktop side they are shrinking while Apple continues to grow...domestically only though in such high numbers. I believe they are close to 10% of the U.S. market now. <br><br>
      However, globally outside of the U.S. they are not even in the top 5, so they have a long way to go as well. <br><br>
      Well the kingdom looks like there are some cracks in the walls and if things align against them just right (the entire OSS community certainly is totally 100% against MSFT surviving at all for starters) and Apple fans feel the same way to a lesser or at least less zealous manner, this could be the beginning of the end. Does that make you happy? <br><br>
      Free can't be stopped once it's evolved to the point of being able to be plugged in where Windows once was, that is obvious. I am a capitalist and still don't back the idea that would be dumping in all other industries thatI know about. I simply don't think it's good for the economy as a whole. Any money companies may save will be lost in millions upon millions of jobs supported under Windows, that will be gone forever and it's not a typical "advancement" in technology where people can learn and move into new job opportunities. There will be far less jobs and the technology is just a swap, not moving forward. The only unique thing about it over the Windows dominance is it's "free". And I used to hear it's not free as in "free beer" only free as in the source code. But it really is "free". And if it's as good as you report regularly, it won't be long before the Linux service industry will be struggling to remain alive. <br>
      I mean we've heard repeatedly here that only Windows machines need attention and everyone that each poster that has this same story, has rolled out linux to are doing great a year later with no problem, no need to support or stop over to fix anything. <br><br>
      A question about the BB story you've told a few times on how one of the Linux models are always sold out every time you go in and there are racks and racks of windows machines. <br>
      First, do you think they order the same amount of Linux machines vs. Windows machines? I mean with an 8 to 1 advantage, it doesn't make sense that large truckloads of Linux netbooks are being sold daily while Windows netbooks languish on the shelves not selling? I have a feelilng taht is obviously from teh fact they probably carry 20 windows machines for every linux machine, or more. You'll have to ask. They probably see you coming and know you by now, eh?
      ;)
      <br><br>
      Also your comment on the SD drive, i was kind of shocked to see the machine you talked about as being the 250.00 or was it 299.99 linux machine. It had an SD Drive, cool, but only 8 GB. The ones with 20 were more. <br><br>
      I think think 160GB drives are going to sell better. SD drives are not a deal maker for most folks. <br><br>
      As for MS pulling out all of the stops to fend off Linux, you are right, it's futile. There is no company. Or is there? If HP and Dell and Acer start losing money on Linux machines, what incentive would they have to keep selling them and absorbing the cost of preloading Linux? I'm still not sure how that gets paid for unless it's added into the hardware cost and that is just hiding the cost of the OS in the hardware really. <br><br>
      But android being a draw, you think? Is it that big already? Is WM now a minority player on cell phones and handheld devices, as and interactive OS w/ UI? I'm not so sure of your thinking there, but I hope it works out for your sake. I can tell how psyched you are and really, like you say, it's only a matter of time before people start choosing free. Who won't? who could not? What kind of fool would pay for something inferior to the free product? I agree. I may disagree with the means by which it's positioning itself to get there, as well as Apple, but more power to you. I think MS has paid it's debt to society but the evil label is as constanct and prevelant today as it was 9 years ago. Why is that? You yourself said Apple is making MS look like a good company compared to what Apple has been pulling recently, or something to that affect. Why do you suppose the vast majority of OSS people are still giving Apple a free pass? Cause it uses open source and charges for it?
      <br><br>
      xuniL_z
      • Another dissertation by Looneyxuni

        I didn't bother to read your ramble, but you're still wrong.
        kozmcrae
        • RE: Another dissertation by Looneyxuni

          [b]Amen[/b] to that!
          yaabloka@...
        • Yet another response to Looneyxuni

          I did read the ramble and yes, you're wrong.
          tmsbrdrs
          • How could "cosmic ray" be wrong?

            He didn't say anything, which goes for all of his posts. <br><br>
            If this was supposed to be a reply to me, way to point out what was wrong. <br><br>
            I did say that MS is starting to crumble a bit, so I will take you think I'm wrong about that and normally i would agree with you, but not this time. <br><br>
            Other than that, I didn't really say anything that was right or wrong, just questions to TripleII. <br><br>
            When you grow up, you'll understand.
            xuniL_z
        • I'm glad you didn't read it.

          It wasn't for children.
          xuniL_z
        • A wise observation!

          I concur.
          Ole Man
      • Lots of points.

        [B]I would feel better, in your shoes, if it had been a win by outright preference and the fact it's "free" wasn't the secondary driver.[/B]

        Me too. You can't find a Linux MSI and you can't find a hard drive based Linux versions. Add in that around Nov/Dec last year, the Linux versions were getting harder and harder to find while XP flooded the market. Not unexpected though, marketing muscle and coercion of the marketplace is pretty much SOP now. :D

        [B]Do they raise the price of the hardware to compensate and wouldn't that technically be "charging" for the OS? [/B]

        And? Dig back in history, if you can find a single post where the OS should be free, I'll buy you a netbook. There is nothing, never has been, with any company pre-installing and charging for anything. My point, for years, all that is fine, however, I should be allowed (by law) to purchase one companies product without being forced to purchase a 3rd parties product.

        [B]I don't know offhand, do you happen to have those numbers? [/B]

        .5%. 1 Billion internet connected computers, 5.8M netbooks sold (by the big two, total numbers unknown).
        Currently 20% of all notebook sales, expected to hit 40-45% this year.

        [B]but do you think these miniture "gadgets" (what many are calling them in reviews) are here to stay?[/B]

        I think so. I have mine, and I have another "order" for two. I have contacted Acer to get two machines with no OS with hard drives. I have to purchase them through my brother's company because they can't sell direct lest they incur the wrath of the resellers.

        [B]I think think 160GB drives are going to sell better. SD drives are not a deal maker for most folks.[/B]

        Absolutely, that's the problem. You can't get an HD based Linux version. Pure market distortion.

        This is my exact model, however, mine is blue.
        http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOA110-1831-8-9-Inch-Netbook-Processor/dp/B001KAEEBK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232993514&sr=8-1

        You nailed the problem, the above for $25 more and 120-160 Gbyte HD, they would sell a LOT more.

        [B]If HP and Dell and Acer start losing money on Linux machines[/B]

        I agree completely, I just can't wait to try the HP MEI. It (YouTube) looks great. I tried Elisa (the media player on it), full screen and fullintegration. Watch movies, YouTube, Shoutcast, your library and mp3 player integration (includes iPod). Way too fluffy for me, lol, but Joe Average will probably fall in love with it.

        [B]But android being a draw, you think? [/B]

        I think so. An Android based distro, with all the regular repository and access to the app store in a netbook size, all at $200 price point (pure speculation, not outyet) could really be a disruptive technology.

        I probably missed some points, but I thank you, a real discussion.

        TripleII

        P.S. Even if MS re-locks the entire market, I have my netbook, didn't pay MS for it and happy a a pig in ... a happy place.
        TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827
        • HD Based Linux Netbook?

          "You can't get an HD based Linux version."

          Is this not a HD-based Linux version?
          http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOA150-1382-8-9-Inch-Netbook-Processor/dp/B001KAGF0I/ref=pd_cp_e_3?pf_rd_p=413863401&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001KAEEBK&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=03GDZ5SHFJVSEQHMHH7Q
          KeJorn
          • Hey, Awesome!

            Thanks for letting me know. First time I have seen one. Going to confirm the users want them and order two today.

            Thanks again, I bookmarked it, very rare find!

            It is new, no reviews yet. Lesson learned, always keep looking for what you want!

            TripleII
            TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827
          • It looks like that item is badly in need...

            of a review! Perhaps one of you gents will supply one, once purchased?

            I couldn't help noticing that Amazon claims 58% of customers viewing the item buy it. I don't know whether to believe that, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what data point the statistic is based on.
            JCitizen
        • We declined Windows EULA on the 160 HD equiped Aspire One's

          We sent our request for refund of Windows license's to Acer and are waiting to hear back currently. From what one of their reps said we have a good chance of getting a few bucks back for each machine since we declined MS's EULA. We included a dvd of each machine declining the EULA and installation of the Linux based OS's as well as letting them know the license keys we were returning.<br><br>

          The distro we are using is Ubuntu Netbook Remix (works out of the box), I am considering re-installing Acer's own modified version of Linpus Lite Linux I tried before (the one used on their pre-loaded Linux machines) due to it's 15 second boot time I enjoyed when I tried it.<br><br>

          The only reason we bought the XP versions were that we wanted the 160GB HD on it instead of the 8BG SSD. My wife and I are using them as actual laptop replacements so we want the larger storage.

          I am not calling for the death of Microsoft, I am calling for the ablity to buy the hardware I want without having to pay for an OS I'm not going to use and have to jump through hoops to get refunded for an OS I didn't want in the first place. What would be a win/win for the OEM's and consumer is pre-loaded Windows of course have MS give them payment for this. Sort of like pre-installing a trial version of A/v software. Then if people want Windows they can buy the license from the place their buying the system from. Now this is nice because then it would give the Linux distro's the ablity to also pay to have their distro pre-loaded and a fee paid for their license if they would like to be compensated. At least this would keep those who don't want Windows to not have to pay for it up front and hope the OEM is respectful enough to refund them. You want the license you pay for it, you don't you take the system home and delete the trialware OS......
          devlin_X
          • did not thought about that

            I bought the 1000h with 80 gigs hd and did remove windows in favor of the later crunchbang eee..did not though about asking for a refund, though...your idea is cool..I also don't want the hardware vendors to tell me what OS I should use...windows software is equal to trialware and evilware in my book
            ribas
          • EU Commission

            This is all part of why the European Commission is on MS' tails about enforced sales techniques - they've already preferred to pay 500 million to unbundling IE, and still won't do so, they haven't noticed an extra 0 gets added each time, so now they'll be facing 5 billion in fines. All they have to do is supply it as an uninstalled user option and the Commission would be happy.
            JelMin
        • reply to TripleII

          <i>Me too. You can't find abased Linux versions. Add in that around Nov/Dec last year, the Linux versions were getting harder and harder to find while XP flooded the market. Not unexpected though, marketing muscle and coercion of the marketplace is pretty much SOP now. :D
          </i><br><br> Linux MSI and you can't find a hard drive
          I would replace "coercion" with enticement or oppportunity. The Gateway incident is enough to show the OEMs are unwilling to walk away. They could, as much as many like to make it seem MS has them handcuffed legally to sell Windows, it is just an excuse for the fact capitalism is about making money and being competitive and the OEMs are not willing to give that up until a competitor can replace that revenue, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, the JOBS. Think how many are employed that stage the machines. <br>
          This is not just DELL, HP and Toshiba. Companies around the globe are unwilling to give up that extra income from selling Windows, which in turn, means more jobs. <br><br>
          My stance has always been let the market decide. If and when Linux gains enough popularity, you'll see MS forced to loosen it's terms with the OEMs. Or the market will build a new infrastructure to get Linux hardware out the door. I can't imagine there is not any big money players right now willing to start building the first Linux only "OEM". Maybe this simply indicates it's still not quite there, but close. <br><br>
          <i>
          And? Dig back in history, if you can find a single post where the OS should be free, I'll buy you a netbook. There is nothing, never has been, with any company pre-installing and charging for anything. My point, for years, all that is fine, however, I should be allowed (by law) to purchase one companies product without being forced to purchase a 3rd parties product.
          </i><br><br>
          When you go and buy your new Lexus every few years, do you tell them to rip out the JBL sound system and you should have your pick of stereo vendors? <br>
          ;)
          <br>
          Maybe not quite the same, but the OEMs are partners with Microsoft, they have been for a long time. They have good terms. This is one area that make it rough for Linux, but guess what? As long as you are ok with charging for it, then go ahead and make the OEMs a better offer. Higher margins on the OS. And guarantee them a market...this is all business at this point. I think Linux needs to find another Shuttleworth and group of investors that will back creating a Linux based OS OEM .<br><br>
          But what do you offer? Every distro? Just one, two, six? How do you arrive at that? <br><br>
          How do you keep everyone happy without fragmenting the Linux world? <br><br> As for your "challenge", i'll be looking hard cause I'd love a new netbook. Do i get my choice? (I think the idea has been implied though TripleII. Think about what has come to be known as the "windows tax", and the anger that has brought. Sure it's partially due to lack of choice, but the other part is the cost). And here OEMs are charging us for Linux. Is that the "linux tax". ha ha <br>
          ;)
          <br> <br>

          <i>Absolutely, that's the problem. You can't get an HD based Linux version. Pure market distortion.
          </i><br><br>
          Why are the OEMs only putting SSDs in them? Who is controlling that?
          <br><br>
          <i> think so. An Android based distro, with all the regular repository and access to the app store in a netbook size, all at $200 price point (pure speculation, not outyet) could really be a disruptive technology.
          </i><br><br>
          Are you sure this isn't just what appeals to you? How would mainstream Joe Sixpack understand the difference? <br>
          And again, how do you rectify this with all the distros that are not android based? Seems pretty brutal to pick and choose which distros get left behind? <br><br>
          <i>P.S. Even if MS re-locks the entire market, I have my netbook, didn't pay MS for it and happy a a pig in ... a happy place.
          </i><br><br>
          That's great. So who pocketed the "Linux tax" you paid on it? <br>
          ;)
          xuniL_z
          • Car analogies rarely work.

            [B]When you go and buy your new Lexus every few years, do you tell them to rip out the JBL sound system and you should have your pick of stereo vendors?[/B]

            This does not really apply. A better analogy would be that with your Lexus purchase, you must, no choice, purchase an extended warranty from a 3rd party company. You have no choice to NOT buy the extended warranty and you can't even buy one the dealer themselves offer WITHOUT also paying for the 3rd party extended warranty.

            [B]But what do you offer? Every distro? Just one, two, six? How do you arrive at that? [/B]

            No, that is what everyone assumes, an OEM MUST install all flavors of Linux. No, they DO NOT HAVE TO INSTALL OR SUPPORT ANY. By law, every computer Dells, HP, Lenovo etc sells in the US today, based on anti-trust laws (which the DOJ refuses to enforce) should be allowed to be purchased without an OS. Absolutely it can (and should in many many cases) come with Windows pre-installed, but it is still illegal to force someone to pay for Windows as a condition of buying HP's computer for example.

            That's the reason that they make it hard, they may cry, throw smoke your way, but in the end, 100% of the cases, if you reject the EULA for Windows, you will get a refund. Simply put, if you are determined enough, they know that not refunding is against the law.

            Here's the simple solution (even if the bare PC is more expensive than the crapified PC), every computer should come with a choice like this.

            Computer XYZ
            No OS (hardware warranty and support only) $499
            Windows Home Basic + 8.99 (the crapware subsidized price)
            Windows Home Premium + 49.99

            There is no functional way that pulling a computer OFF the line BEFORE it gets to the image burn to disk and going right to shipping is MORE work (time is money) than the same computer going through the image burn process. Not only that, you save on printed media and you don't have to support ANY software.

            Right now this can't happen because of the MS anti-piracy clause. Since any computer sold without Windows will always get pirated Windows installed, even shipped without an OS, MS gets paid. Pure anti-trust violation.

            The biggest scam (and the one thing MS will spend every penny in the bank to continue) MS has perpetrated is to convince the mass consumer that Windows is "free".

            TripleII
            TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827
          • You have hit the proverbial nail

            The one that all Microsoft super-heroes trip and stumble over continuously (because they cant see it or because they are getting paid not to see it) smack dab square on the middle of the head. I mean drove that sucker home!

            Thank you!
            Ole Man
          • The car analogy does work, and for all you know....

            the 3 year parts/labor that comes with most cars is probably built into the price to begin with.
            <br><br>
            But If there was a company making "free" car stereos, yet, GASP, the auto industry continued to install those of 3rd party vendors, what are you going to do? <br><br>
            What is the difference? Shouldn't every product be offered in a naked fashion? Shouldn't Ford offer their "sync" system in open source too? It's an add-on that costs money and certain models come with it, period. YOu can't ask it come "naked" of that Microsoft software. It's business Triple. What gives you the right to demand any manufacturer do anything you think is more just? Many people worked to build that business and they run it howt they see fit within the law. If they break the law, then they should be procecuted. I still firmly believe that Microsoft never broke any laws. <br>
            Esp. considering how SUN and others were given anti trust exemption to help further the darpa projects and give the U.S. a strategic lead in computer systems technology. Nobody complains that ALL rules of fair competition were broken by those companies. Nobody complains about IBM and it's anti trust dealings.<br>
            Should Apple be forced to sell "naked" Macs? They will run with Linux or Windows, so the B.S. about them being a "hand" and "glove" match is a total lie. Vista runs just as well as OS X on the Mac. They can run Windows, but you HAVE to pay for OS X first. Why are there no complaints about Apple and it's monopoly practices? <br><br>
            Why should the OEMs bail on MS when they are able to keep many more JOBs and compete with the other OEMs. They can't sell naked PCs, the margins are too razor thin on the hardware side of it. They'd have to raise the price of the naked PC to match the price of teh one with Windows to stay in business, so what have you gained? <br><br>
            Linux was initially built by communities that were against corporate America. The original cast hated to idea of all corporations. Dyed in the wool liberals, politically speaking. Anti-capitalists. So here we have this entity called open source that suddenly thinks, what, that they should be given "equal" rights in the marketplace? Ummm, the marketplace is not about rights, you have no inherent right that a company you didn't form sell what you want it to. YOU have the RIGHT, to create your OWN company and build and sell, or give away, what you want to. <br><br>
            I know you feel good about helping schools by giving them cheap machines and all that, but at the same time you are advocating that DELL, HP, LENOVO and others get rid of hundres of thousands of JOBS. I don't understand that. <br>
            <br>
            The issue that they come with Windows is another problem, but at the basic level you are taking one step forward, then about 500 back, when it comes to helping society. <br><br>
            Sure kids would have cheaper PCs with Linux and that's all swell, but at the expense of those chilren's parent's jobs? That makes no sense to me. <br><br>
            Linux is welcome as a player in the free market but it has not sold itself yet. <br><br>
            You blame it all on Microsoft and "coersion" and breaking anti trust laws, but that still doesn't get Linux on the desktop. Might as well have the thrill of formatting Windows off your drive, cause the naked PC WILL cost as much. <br><br>
            Not only do they have to make up for razor thin margins on the hardware that was made up on the software, but also they now have to pay for all of their own advertising with naked PCs. That is another huge cost tacked on to what they currently don't pay. Pretty soon, your Naked PC is going to cost more than one with Windows. In fact I bet it would. <br><br>
            Companies must follow the law, but they don't have to do what a minority of citizens feel is right, do they? Just like they shouldn't have to go to church and handle rattlesnakes just cause a small group of people thinks that is the way to eternal life. <br><br>
            Again, if Linux were as good and Windows competitor ready, there are millions of wealthy investors who would have jumped at the chance to be the first one to build a Linux ecosystem, and I swear I'd never complain if they sold Linux machines only. I'd never say they have to sell Windows, come on. Just like I'd never tell Nintendo they must sell the DS w/o a system, or nokia phones w/o an OS. That's not my business.
            I can't control what OS nokia wants to sell on their products. <br><br>
            Don't push it guy, you have to wait for the demand. you are jumping the gun a bit. <br><br>
            You know how you said "thanks" cause i talked honestly about Windows Vista issues and Linux upsides. <br><br>
            No need for thanks, but you could try to talk about Windows upsides (on rare occasion you have) BUT Linux problems, in the same post! <br>
            ;) ;)

            <br>

            xuniL_z
          • you have got to be kidding me!!! Linus Torvalds an anti-capitalist???

            [b]Linux was initially built by communities that were against corporate America. The original cast hated to idea of all corporations. Dyed in the wool liberals, politically speaking. Anti-capitalists.[/b]

            This is the biggest load of BS I have ever seen. Linus Torvalds, who is not an anti-capitalist American hater, but a Finnish software engineer, began developing the Linux kernel because he wanted a Unix like operating system that he could run on his pc. The GNU tools which form the rest of the base of linux had been around for years. The way you talk it's like linux is a conspiracy of the communist party to break down capitalism.

            FOSS is not created by people with an anti-capitalist agenda, nor does linux put people out of jobs. In fact quite the opposite. IT professionals have always had to be abreast of multiple operating systems and UNIX has been taught in Universities since before windows.

            You had some interesting points but this blatantly incorrect information makes your arguments a joke.
            Aussie_linux_user