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What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?

By | September 6, 2011, 1:24pm PDT

Summary: Apple’s MacOS Lion upgrade appears to have downgraded my ability to back up my files. Should I dump it and go back to Snow Leapord?

I downloaded and installed MacOS Lion on a couple of my production systems and have been mostly happy with the performance. Apple decided to make a few changes to the user interface that have made the system harder to use as a platform for web browsing and replaced the Samba file server software with something of Apple’s own creation.

I’m able to deal with the user interface changes even though it causes me to grumble whenever I want to back up a page on the web.

Dropping Samba, however, has caused me no end of trouble. All of my production systems used to connect to a Dlink file server using the server message block (SMB) protocol to back up and share files with one another. The Apple systems accomplished this feat using Samba. Apple’s own file server software won’t connect with the device and tells me that it isn’t supported.

Since Lion appears not to properly support SMB and I need to back up my files to the file server, I’m faced with the choice of dumping Lion and reloading Snow Leopard or figuring out how to make Lion work with the SMB-based file server. What do you think I should do?

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Topics

Lion, Production System, Apple Mac OS, Operating Systems, Software, Dan Kusnetzky

Daniel Kusnetzky is a distinguished analyst and the founder of the Kusnetzky Group LLC.

Disclosure

Dan Kusnetzky

The Kusnetzky Group LLC is an independent technology industry research firm that focuses on system software, virtualization and cloud computing technology.

Dan's opinions are based upon research, personal experiences and actual use of technology. They are not based upon the relationships the company may or may not have with suppliers, end user organizations, the media, consultants or other analysts.

Dan's research is available on a subscription basis through the Kusnetzky Group LLC. Dan's attendance at industry events or at client meetings may be sponsored by the client. Clients may provide hardware or software for testing prior to the publication of analysis that includes that product. Clients may also provide shirts, jackets, coffee cups, folders, backpacks, pens and other event chotchkies. While nice, these don't effect Dan's opinions or insight about those clients or their products.

Biography

Dan Kusnetzky

Daniel Kusnetzky, Analyst and Founder of Kusnetzky Group LLC, is responsible for research, publications, and operations. Mr. Kusnetzky has been involved with information technology since the late 1970s. Mr. Kusnetzky has been responsible for research operations at the 451 Group; corporate and marketing strategy for Open-Xchange; system software and virtualization research at IDC; and program and product management at Digital Equipment Corporation.; Today, Mr. Kusnetzky focuses on system software, virtualization technology and cloud computing.

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0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
APACloud 6th Sep
No brainer, find a new storage solution, why would you want on premise storage anyway, much more resilient & secure in the cloud. Also being stuck on an out of date OS for the sake of a piece of hardware is silly.
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Badgered 6th Sep
@CloudinOz why would you want on premise storage anyway

Because I still don't trust the cloud.
0 Votes
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How about uploading a file of 700MB to cloud?
ZenithY 6th Sep
@CloudinOz
Now we talk resilient.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
sjaak327 6th Sep
@CloudinOz

As if backing up to cloud services is a very bright idea.. I always have to laugh a bit at the cloud people. Tell me how I am going to make daily backups of say half a terra to the cloud with say a 25 mbit connection ? You guessed it, I will need to change the frequency to once in every three days give or take. Not to mention the privacy and security issues that are clearly aligned with cloud solutions, look at the recent dropbox messup or Google's terms of service.

I am not aware of Lion causing problems with smb networking, it seems to be working fine with my Windows DC. Allthough Apple was never able to supply Leopard or Snow Leopard with a properly working smb implementation that support smb packet signing, which meant I needed to make adjustments to dc security.
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8TB of data, 50Mbps of bandwidth, 150GB/mo cap = do the math
TheWerewolf 6th Sep
@CloudinOz

I think you need to get your head out of the clouds and back to reality for a bit. happy
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Dump it
toddybottom 6th Sep
Get rid of Lion. Better yet, get rid of OS X and switch to Windows.
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 6th Sep
@toddybottom How about something constructive rather than just an Anti-Apple Troll?
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Imrhien 6th Sep
@Rick_Kl Lololol install Linux? =D
0 Votes
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Telling people to switch to a different OS is being a troll?
toddybottom 6th Sep
@Rick_Kl
I didn't realize that. Good to know.

Regardless, the author asked a question and I answered it.

And I can't be anti-Apple. I own 3 Apple products and I like them all. I am "anti-" OS X because it is a terrible OS but just because I don't like 1 product from a company doesn't mean that I'm "anti" that company. Or do you disagree? Unless someone literally loves every single product Apple has ever made, you believe that they are anti-Apple?

Sounds a bit fanboyish to me. Sounds a LOT fanboyish to me.
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Message has been deleted.
William Farrell Updated - 6th Sep
  • Flagged
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
bitcrazed 7th Sep
@Rick_Kl - when you uninstall IE, you uninstall the IE executable and, thus uninstall IE. You don't uninstall the IE HTML rendering surface and HTTP/S protocol handlers since they are required by many features of Windows and many 3rd party products.

But you said it right earlier - if OSX isn't doing what Daniel needs, then he should select a product that will - either a SMB stack that works, or an OS that supports his needs.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 7th Sep
@bitcrazed [But you said it right earlier - if OSX isn't doing what Daniel needs, then he should select a product that will - either a SMB stack that works, or an OS that supports his needs.] And I have no problem with that line of thinking. One should always choose the tools that suit their needs. What I have a problem with is when a person feels they are so superior to everyone else that their opinion is the only one that counts. I personally do not prefer Windows 7, but I have no problem with others liking it. Toddybottom (NonZealot) feels that they are the authority on Operating Systems, and in their opinion nothing compares to Windows.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 6th Sep
@toddybottom [ I am "anti-" OS X because it is a terrible OS but just because I don't like 1 product from a company doesn't mean that I'm "anti" that company.] Stating that one should dump OS X all together is the typical call of the Windows Zealot. In my opinion OS X is not perfect, but it does what I ask it to do quite well. For someone that claims to have multiple Apple products, I find it hard for you to say they suck so much, why don?t you own a Windows phone, a Windows Tablet and a Windows (whatever the third product is)?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
toddybottom 6th Sep
@Rick_Kl
"Stating that one should dump OS X all together is the typical call of the Windows Zealot."

Actually, I was making fun of the Apple zealots because all they seem to do is yell "switch to Mac" over and over again. But you've just admitted that they are all trolls so that's good. I'll remember you said that.

"I find it hard for you to say they suck so much"

Again this very odd (and unique to Apple fanboys) belief that you must either love every product a company makes or you must hate every product a company makes. It is impossible for your little fanboyish mind to comprehend anyone who might like some products and not like other products, even if they are made by the same company.

Let me ask you point blank: do you love every single product that Apple makes? If yes then wow, I'm impressed at how dedicated you are. If you don't love every single product that Apple makes then I'm going to have to challenge you on why you don't own a Windows phone, a Windows Tablet, and a Windows (whatever the third product is).

I will still answer your question though. I own an iPhone because it is the best overall smartphone. I own an iPad because it is the best overall tablet. I own a MacBook because it is the best overall laptop (or it was back when I bought it, I would buy a MacBook Air if I were buying a new laptop). I own Windows 7 because it is the best overall OS.

Hopefully I've simplified my explanation so that even someone like you can understand it.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 6th Sep
@toddybottom You must be really confused, I am not a fanboy, just because I do not think that Windows is the greatest. I prefer Photoshop for image editing, I actually like Firefox, and while I do not find it perfect I prefer iTunes to Windows Media player (or whatever it is called these days). I actually like my Playstation 3, for reasons that you might not understand. But it does more than one thing well (think Blu-Ray player/game console). I do not own an iPad, an iPhone, not do I own an Apple TV of any sort. I do byproducts that fit with what intend to do with them. But I have at least tried other choices at one time. I do not like the fact that Microsoft like to tell me what I can do with an OS, but that is my own personal beef with them. I do not like that I cannot delete unwanted add ons (IE, WMP, etc.) At least with OS X these things can be deleted.
0 Votes
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You are one brazen individual
toddybottom 6th Sep
@Rick_Kl
So it is okay for you to not like all Apple products but it isn't okay for me? What planet do you live on?

Tell you what. I've now dealt with your stupidity on several threads. Come back when you are ready to be an adult. Until then, shut up.
  • Flagged
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 6th Sep
@toddybottom I own exactly three products from Apple. A MacBook Pro, an iPod, and an Airport extreme. I have no need for an iPad, as I have an iPod. I see no value in the Apple TV (as it stands), and I really only need one computer (which the MacBook Pro fits the bill quite nicely). I got the iPod with the MacBook Pro as part of a promotion, and was able to use my college ID to get it at the educational price (10% off). I do not have a smartphone at this current time, as I have not found myself wanting one, but that could change. I am not a big fan of the iMac, but I can see the use for one, for say my parents, as they would never upgrade it. I have even told a few friends not to switch, due to software requirements. I think the biggest barrier is software cost when switching platforms. for me to switch I would need to replace almost $2,500 in software, which would drive the cost of buying a Windows notebook up by $2,500. I frankly paid less than that for the MacBook Pro (mid 2010 15.4 inch 2.66 GHz) + a 32 GB iPod Touch. I now plenty of people that use Windows, and are quite happy. I just prefer to use OS X.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
dvm 6th Sep
@Rick_Kl,
"I do not like the fact that Microsoft like to tell me what I can do with an OS, but that is my own personal beef with them. I do not like that I cannot delete unwanted add ons (IE, WMP, etc.) At least with OS X these things can be deleted."
FYI, you can uninstall IE and WMP from Windows 7. Second, you don't like MS because they tell you what to do with Windows. Didn't the same applies to Apple? For example, can I install Mac OS on the PC of my choice? No, because the Mac OS EULA prohibit installing Mac OS on non Apple hardware. So it looks like both companies have their respective restrictions for their products.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Badgered Updated - 7th Sep
@Rick_Kl I own exactly three products from Apple.

Um.. ok.. but that wasn't his point. You accused him of being a Anti-Apple Troll simply because he didn't like OS X. I'd think instead of typing around the subject, you should just apologize and be done with the thread.

I do not like the fact that Microsoft like to tell me what I can do with an OS, but that is my own personal beef with them.

Really? Which company won't let you install their OS on just any piece of hardware?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl Updated - 7th Sep
dvm: [FYI, you can uninstall IE and WMP from Windows 7] hiding access to components of an OS is not the same as deleting them. I have heard the argument that with todays Hard Drives having such large capacities, the need to conserve space is not what it used to be (and I remember when a 20 MB Hard drive was considered big). But the fact remains that if I am not allowed to remove things i will not use, then I do not have control over what is on my hard drive.
@Badgered: toddy bottom claims to have Apple products, yet speaks out against them on a regular basis. This character claims to have an iPhone, yet also claims that Windows Phone is so superior. Claims to have an iPad, but says it pales in comparison to Windows 7 on a tablet. Says they he/she has a MacBook Pro, but it is not a good computer because it has OS X on it. Are you starting to see a pattern?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
dvm Updated - 7th Sep
@Rick_Kl,
"hiding access to components of an OS is not the same as deleting them."

Here is some info from Wikipedia,
"Dependencies such as the Trident layout engine are not removed through this process, but the Internet Explorer executable (iexplore.exe) is removed without harming any other Windows components, thus preventing Internet Explorer itself from running."

So it looks like the IE executable is completely removed from the system, same as WMP.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/what-happens-if-I-turn-off-windows-media-player
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 7th Sep
@dvm: From the link you provided [Turning off Windows Media Player removes it from Windows, but doesn't reduce the amount of hard disk space used by Windows. It will remain stored on your hard disk, so you can turn Windows Media Player back on if you want to.] Sorry to say this, but that is just hiding access to it, as it is still there. I wonder if it is the same for Internet Explorer?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
dvm Updated - 7th Sep
@Rick_Kl,
"Sorry to say this, but that is just hiding access to it, as it is still there. I wonder if it is the same for Internet Explorer? "
If you read, you will notice that it mentions that WMP is removed, "Turning off Windows Media Player removes it from Windows".
Like you mention, there is this line, "It will remain stored on your hard disk, so you can turn Windows Media Player back on if you want to." Could it be that WMP still stored in the same folder that Windows stores all the OS data so it don't asks for the DVD in case you need to reinstall it again? From what I know, Mac OS do the same, right? Or does it asks for the DVD every time you want to add an OS feature?
And the same should applies to IE, it's removed from the OS, but available in case you need it to be reinstalled.

BTW, you posted this line, "I do not like the fact that Microsoft like to tell me what I can do with an OS, but that is my own personal beef with them."
I can remove IE and WMP, can I legally install Mac OS on non Apple hardware? Because it looks like Apple is telling me what I can and cannot do with an OS, don't you think?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 8th Sep
@dvm: [can I legally install Mac OS on non Apple hardware?] From what I understand you can, as long as you do not try and sell it. There is a Hackintosh community, that seems to be okay. If it is done to profit from Apple?s work, then the answer is no (see the crooks at Psystar, for that answer). But as usual, people like to drag up that old dead horse (as it has been beaten to death so many times). If I can completely delete Safari, and Apple doesn?t have a problem with it, why does Microsoft has such an issue with me wanting to delete IE?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
dvm 8th Sep
@Rick_Kl,
"From what I understand you can, as long as you do not try and sell it."
Wrong, you cannot install Mac OS X legally on hardware that is not from Apple,
"The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to,
install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so."
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx107.pdf

On a previous post you mentioned, "I do not like the fact that Microsoft like to tell me what I can do with an OS, but that is my own personal beef with them. I do not like that I cannot delete unwanted add ons (IE, WMP, etc.)"
And I posted links on how to remove add ons like IE and WMP. So it looks like MS is not telling you what to do with an OS, different from Apple, who restricts me from legally installing Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, don't you think?

"If I can completely delete Safari, and Apple doesnt have a problem with it, why does Microsoft has such an issue with me wanting to delete IE? "
It's obvious that MS don't want users browsing with other browsers, but still they let me remove IE. Different from Apple, who don't wants neither allows me to install Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware even if I purchase the OS. Why does Apple has such an issue with restricting Mac OS X installation on non Mac hardware?
0 Votes
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Does your NAS support NFS? Try that
laxamar 6th Sep
I got some help from:
http://frankleng.me/2011/07/21/connect-to-a-freenas-samba-or-afp-share-on-lion-workaround/
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
apetti Updated - 6th Sep
Shouldnt your production staff be working off of the network storage location... this will allow productions files to be shared accros the network. If you were to do this all you have to bck up is your file server. If you are useing a gigabit switch I cannot imagine that you would suffer any network bottlenecks. I think OSx Server has a backup utility built in...

This is the type of proble every platform faces at some point. My production and layout staff use macs and they play nicely with the setup I explained.
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He kind of is...
TheWerewolf 6th Sep
@apetti

I know you're referring to a NAS as a primary storage point, but if those are SMB based (which most are), he'll have the exact same problem.

You're suggesting he rip up his storage solution and convert it to MacOS X to be compatible with Lion when it used to be compatible with Snow Leopard. That's the expensive solution - downgrading back to SL is the simpler, cheaper solution unless he actually gets some intrinsic benefit from upgrading to Lion.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Imrhien 6th Sep
See if you can find a fix out there. You might be able to install Samba on Lion anyway.

Personally it doesn't sound like you'll be losing much by downgrading.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
sjaak327 6th Sep
@Imrhien

Indeed you are offering the best solution:

http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=24022

This explains how to install samba3 in Lion.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
sjaak327 6th Sep
Not able to edit my post, something about spam ?

Anyway, wanted to add that after following instructions to install samba3, you should be able to use smbmount to connect to the nas from the terminal.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
gomigomijunk 6th Sep
@sjaak327 They should rename Samba3 to Simba for Lion. happy
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Grayson Peddie 7th Sep
@sjaak327 I vote 100% for the best solution -- that is, if Daniel Kusnetzky how to work with Linux/Unix.

Otherwise, downgrade.
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Samic 6th Sep
I think Dan's best bet is to downgrade it.

Since you need SMB to work and Lion is buggy with SMB, I don't see how you can get around the issue by either downgrading to SL or switch to Linux or Win Server.
0 Votes
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This is why Apple will never be fully mainstream
A Gray 6th Sep
Everyone complains about Microsoft, but Microsoft is typically very backward compatible. Their big "Vista" blunder was that they weren't in beta long enough for third-parties to get their drivers out. Vista itself was actually very good. In fact, the big worry about Windows 8 is that is won't be compatible with Windows 7. But that's just a baseless worry. However, when it comes to Apple, they will make their product better as a whole and not care about you as a user. I don't call that progressive, I call that careless.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 6th Sep
@A Gray three years isn?t long enough for a beta? Didn?t Microsoft do the longhorn reset in 2004?
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
bitcrazed 7th Sep
@Rick_Kl - no. The Longhorn project started (in earnest) in early 2004, but the reset which resulted in MS discarding much of the work they had already done, happened in late 2005. Vista as a project was actually a pretty one!
0 Votes
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Rick_Kl 7th Sep
@bitcrazed; thanks for the correction, as I was mistaken. Still over 2 years and there were issues with the final product? How long should the beta have been? Maybe, just Maybe Microsoft released a lemon, letting the bean counters control the release (ranter than the engineers)?
0 Votes
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Firmware Update
Chriz-tian 6th Sep
Have you check if there is a new firmware who can handle that problem for your file server ?
0 Votes
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Go back to Snow Leopard.
ye 6th Sep
Unless Lion is offering you something Snow Leopard is not why bother with a known problem until it's fixed?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
Exyaster 6th Sep
Go with something that you think is easier to use. If the new file system is not helping your production then either switch back to OSX10.6 or jump on the Windows 7 boat.
0 Votes
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Get a Time Machine
steven.lynn.hull 6th Sep
And be done with it. Works perfectly.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
AlexisDayton 6th Sep
Are you 100% sure you have smb enabled and not just file sharing?
0 Votes
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Snow Leopard is solid, and soundly architected
rbethell 7th Sep
While Lion has some nice ideas, its confusingly executed, I find - and things like ditching Samba and Rosetta are some of the more puzzling aspects. Yeah, for now... I would drop back down if you're having trouble.
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
charlesreese Updated - 7th Sep
I just got a $829.99 iPad2 for only $103.37 and my mom got a $1499.99 HDTV for only $251.92, they are both coming with USPS tomorrow. I would be an idiot to ever pay full retail prices at places like Walmart or Bestbuy. I sold a 37" HDTV to my boss for $600 that I only paid $78.24 for. I use http://bit.ly/grab1002
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Dump it
stephen.feltmate@... 7th Sep
If Snow Leopard works the way you want it to and Lion does not then it is a no brainer. Unless there are specific benefits to using Lion (and it doesn't sound like there are) it is better to use something that works for you. Don't spend more money that you do not need to spend right now. Unless, once again, there is a specific reason to use Lion and upgrade to "supported" hardware.
0 Votes
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little experience with the Dlink box, but...
voyager529 7th Sep
Unfortunately my experience is a bit limited in this regard, however I do have a FreeNAS at home that I've probably spent more time configuring than I have actually using lol. That said, FreeNAS supports CIFS instead of SMB, along with NFS and I think AFP (I don't have access to it at this exact moment, unfortunately). As such, I'm wondering if using a protocol besides Samba would help you out if your Dlink box supports it. Alternatively, does it support FTP/SFTP, and will file dumps of that nature suffice as a workaround until Apple provides a workaround?

Joey
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
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RE: What do you think? Should I dump MacOS Lion?
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pkfnent 35 epi
bmakrekdw3301-24379004643097755216206771193689 27th Nov
xkkyxy,ibdtjnqf32, oifop.

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