Technicon

Jeffrey S. Young

The eBay Chronicles: Dreams of an eBay Mashup

By | June 22, 2006, 4:38pm PDT

I’ve been pondering the state of Internet commerce recently, and wondering why eBay has missed the chance to be the center of all commerce while Google has become our main shopping resource by default…without doing anything to deserve it.  I’ve even come up with a solution: An eBay mashup that could be the mother of all shopping sites on Web 3.0.  Tell me why I’m wrong, but give me a chance to spin my tale first.

It all began when I bought a computer for my father on eBay last week.

I know, I know.  I said I would never use eBay again a few months ago, but I couldn’t help myself.  I heard about the new eBay Wiki, and the new Skype calling features and just had to go look.  Once there I bought my Dad a Father’s Day gift: a computer.  Not your regular computer…an actual navigator’s computer in its original box and packaging—really, a circular slide rule—that he had used on B-17s flying out of Norwich in England during the last years of WWII.

As my parents get older, and jettison more and more things, it has become harder to buy anything for them.  I won points this year.  My dad was thrilled when it arrived, exactly as advertised, and even more rapidly than I had expected. This time I had a great eBay experience, and started to think maybe I was going to be an eBayer after all.

The whole Father’s Day gift idea started the way it does for most of us who spend a lot of time online these days: by doing a search on Google.  I threw in a couple of key words: B-17 and Navigator.  The results were just what you would expect: overwhelming, and generally useless.  One of the unspoken realities about life in the days of Google is that while the search engine might deliver millions of search results, finding the ones you want is still like pawing through the haystack to find that proverbial needle.  Unless you’ve mastered the art of query language terms, or are looking for something with a highly unique descriptive tag, Google’s mysterious algorithms sort results in weird, wonderful, and wacky ways.  This is fine if you have time to wander aimlessly through the web, but a problem if you have other things to do. And worse for the Internet shopper, Google provides no features to make shopping easier or better.

So I gave up until my wife reminded me that time was growing short and she wasn’t going to bail me out for Father’s Day this year (although she did buy the card for me to send.)  I started to seriously consider a model of a B-17 Flying Fortress or a copy of the PC game “B-17 Flying Fortress: The Might Eighth” (the main “Product Search Results” offered up by Google) when I just couldn’t keep stand scrolling through the listings any more.  Then my good friend, a military history buff, and a long time eBayer Jim Forbes suggested I check the auction company’s site. 

Bingo!  Lots of interesting products, including several like the “Navigator’s Computer” with “Buy It Now!” labels that I could get for my dad.  (If you’re a B-17 fan, check out this eBay store with a photo of the cockpit and lots of authentic items for sale.)  Success!

But then I started to think about how I actually found the product, and how difficult it was even in this day of broadband access and an infinite worldwide web because of the walled garden approach that eBay has adopted to shopping.  The problem is simple: eBay listings do not show up in a Google search. 

I’m not stupid, I realize that the eBay folks want me to come to their site to search for whatever I’m looking for, where it controls all the banner and search ads and can try and sell me lots of ancillary products and services.  I don’t even mind that.  The problem for eBay is that it has done a terrible job of convincing me that its site is the first place I should go whenever I want to buy anything, and so far, it has done precious little to justify it either.  That’s the bad news.  The good news is that no one else has done it yet so the company can still grab this territory.

So here’s my solution.  If eBay really wants to provide me with a viable, and powerful service that will draw me back time and time again, why not extend its listings to include many more shopping products from around the web.  In fact, why doesn’t eBay become the shopping comparison site for the entire Internet?  Forget Amazon, eBay already has lots of unique second-hand, and new products offered by a vast array of sellers.  It has plenty of infrastructure to protect buyers and sellers.  It already has brand-name products for sale from a plethora of sources.  Why not add retail store listings for a given item too?  And while they’re at it, why not include classified ads too?  Either display Craigslist postings, or suck up those ads from the web too and categorize them, feeding them through the same query engine.

If eBay keeps its listings in a walled garden then it should provide a comparison shopping engine for every retail, and classified ad seller on the web from within that walled garden.  Think of it like this: Adding a product comparison engine—no, the best price and product comparison engine—would make it the destination of choice whenever anyone wanted to buy anything, new, used or whatever.

Now, from where I sit, that would be a shopping site to be reckoned with instead of today’s fragmented, balkanized, and inefficient collection of ten million sites.  The eBay toolbar would become the commercial gateway to finding anything you want to buy anywhere on the web, anytime.  No more aimless wandering through Google, or tracking through multiple shopping comparison sites, or heading to Craigslist and trying to parse its listings.  One place.  New and used products.  Retail, But It Now, Classified Ads, or Auction: Take your pick. Available from your eBay toolbar inside any web browser—or even, if the company was really smart, as an Ajax plug-in to Google or Yahoo or any other site that supported that technology.

What’s wrong with this idea?  I admit I have no idea how to monetize this, or whether the eBay Power Sellers would shriek, or if retail sites would want to be listed in the commercial retail listings next to every Tom, Dick and Harriet selling out of their garage, or if Craigslist would let eBay queries reach into its database and display results.  Maybe the company doesn’t need permission; it could just be the world’s best shopping mashup.

All I know is that it would be a boon for every consumer like me.  And come to think of it, isn’t that the way to build a successful Internet business: Give the great unwashed hordes something they can’t get anywhere else, gathering, aggregating and repurposing all sorts of Internet data with cool tools even if there’s no clear money stream from every last piece of it? 

I’m sure there’s a big flaw in this somewhere and I trust that the collective intelligence of millions of Internet readers will quickly set me straight.  Come on eBayer’s tell me what I’ve missed.  Until then I’ll keep dreaming of the great eBay mashup I’ve started to design.

Anyone for building Web 3.0 with me?

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

More from “Technicon”

Topics

Biography

Jeffrey S. Young is the author of two books about Steve Jobs--iCon Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs The Journey is the Reward--as well as several others about science and technology. Along the way, Young has worked and written for many magazines and newspapers, including Forbes, Wired, The Hollywood Reporter, MacWorld, Esquire, and the San Jose Mercury News. He currently tends a small vineyard in Northern California.

35
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

John Sturner
sossner@... 25th Oct 2006
Please call me at once to resolve this important matter. Edward M. Sossner, Esq 518-463-3600
0 Votes
+ -
Don't Hold Your Breath...
cvilly 23rd Jun 2006
If I had a dime for every time someone said, "why doesn't eBay just do x" I'd be as rich as Meg Whitman. The problem is, eBay is in a uniquely complicated situation. They want to attract buyers, but sellers are where the money comes from. There is a constant struggle between the needs of buyers and the needs of sellers. Put simply, providing ways to leave eBay's site for points unknown just won't fly with the seller community. They demand the walled garden.

The solution to this problem is most likely to come from a third party. Someone like a gumshoo.com could pull this off, provided eBay's API terms don't forbid this kind of mash-up. I actually think eBay might welcome this kind of solution from third parties. That way they can still get their products out to a wider audience and avoid the inevitable seller revolt had they taken on this challenge themselves.
0 Votes
+ -
I agree
opensourcepro 29th Jun 2006
The complexity of eBay really does stand in the way.

http://opendomain.blogspot.com/
0 Votes
+ -
I hope not
STDog 26th Jun 2006
It already bad enough when search engines hit sites full of Ebay listings (all of which are out of date). I'd rather google not include those or other "For sale" listings unless asked for, and then not show anything but.

When I'm looking for information, having to sift through all the for sale ads increases the time to find it, at least 3 fold. Please don't clutter information searches with more "e-commerce" junk.

As for Ebay including outside sources, again, I hope not. EBay is already too big, and a far cry from what is once was. Remeber when there were a dozen "auction" sites? Now you want ebay to suck up all the classified sites too?

I'm still looking for a alternative to EBay, that more closely matches what it was, before all the "Stores" and retail sellers and importers took over.
0 Votes
+ -
try this
IceTheNet@... 26th Jun 2006
storm pay it has auctions and their free. So is their payment gateway. more secure and better than ebay or paypal just not as popular.
0 Votes
+ -
You are whinning
balsover 26th Jun 2006
Oh come on, you can't be troubled to go to eBay to look for something that you don't find in Google?

You are being lazy.
0 Votes
+ -
Whinning
gregry 26th Jun 2006
Whinning (noun, amer eng). The act of getting exactly what you want and still complaining about it.
0 Votes
+ -
"whinning"
veloman2 26th Jun 2006
Or to type in another word in your google search ("computer")? The first result would have taken you right to ebay!
0 Votes
+ -
shopzilla
martink1@... 26th Jun 2006
shopzilla.com is a shopping comparison site, but I think stores have to register with them.
0 Votes
+ -
Shopping.com / Comparison Sites
meatsju 26th Jun 2006
Yes, merchants have to register on shopping comparison sites. eBay purchased shopping.com last year, so I wouldn't be suprised if they sart integrating shopping.com results with eBay listings.
0 Votes
+ -
I wish eBay was limited to auctions only
jdudeck@... 26th Jun 2006
I think the idea of making eBay a generalized shopping site is a bad one. For me, eBay should be a place to find bargains.

I find it harder and harder to find bargains on eBay. So many of the listings aren't true auctions, or they are over priced. I can't find a way to search only auctions, and even among the auction listings, many are listed with high starting prices, or buy it now only, or excessive shipping charges, so that the price is actually a retail price and not a true auction.

Adding in Amazon-like retail shopping to eBay would make it even worse. Please, no.
0 Votes
+ -
You're So Right
EBathory 26th Jun 2006
I think it would be a wonderful idea if eBay at least would give the buyer options right on its home page--regular auctions, Pay It Now, eBay stores and, its latest ball of confusion--best offers.

Regular auctions items can still net a shopper the best deal, but sometimes I will find the perfect gift or whatever, only to discover it ends 5 days and 23 hours from now. Or vice versa--I have 50 seconds to bid. It would be great to be able to search, for instance, all the "Buy It Nows" right off the bat.

And shipping charges; now that's another ball game. I've seen honest people charge decent rates, and then I have seen $18.00 charged for a small $3.00 piece of jewelry. The latter is an obvious scam to bilk eBay out of its fees, but there are tons of sellers doing just that.

The article made me think, though, of the vast superstore potential. Since I must shop from the internet most of the time, it seems we shoppers can come up with some excellent suggestions for eBay. But will the bigwigs listen? I doubt it.
0 Votes
+ -
If you look at any page with listings on it, just under the banner ads, you will see 3 tabs: All auctions, Auctions, Buy it Now. They aren't decorative. Click on auctions tab, you get only auctions; click on Buy It Now tab you get only buy it now. Look just to the right of the search button and you see a link for advanced search. You can control lots of things here, including minimum and maximum price. Don't like auctions ending in 5 days? Sort the listings by "ending soonest" and just stop looking after 2 days, or 3, or whatever you like. Some, not all, of the tools are there. Look around a bit. Click on stuff. Click on "customize the display". RTFM for pete's sake.
0 Votes
+ -
cul de sac
scofink@... 26th Jun 2006
Google is a cul de sac of rubbishy, non jermain adverts whose only purpose is to generate funds for site scripters & data miners/traffikers.
E-bay ain't what it was but please; don't make it worse with ill conceived ideas like this. When I have to deal with retail outlets, I'm paying for the lighting, a new hairdo for the manager's wife & the wages of cleaning lady (chap), let's keep the prices down & availability up by shunning non auctioneers & their artistic pricing techniques. We (the market), hold the purse strings & can & should drive the vendors before us with whips of cold, hard cash. Only laziness & lack of resolve allows mendacious merchants to survive & flourish. Let's not have E-bay go the way of the price rigged, non-competetive High Street; because that's what would occur if there came to pass such a unification as you suggest. Want to buy something? Then get on your mouse & click you idle, overpaid person you.
0 Votes
+ -
Not Trust Worthy as in PayPal
IceTheNet@... 26th Jun 2006
The association of these to non consumer oriented offshore companies take little or no consideration of their clients. They hard to communicate with should you have a problem and they resolve as they see fit not what is legal or just. People tend to learn their lesson and tell their friends of their problems. The other case it high cost of partisipating in ebay I got stung for 15.00 for a product that didn't sell. That leaves a strong bad tast in your mouth and you really don't want to ever use ebay again after that. so Google a good ole american corporation Heck Ya! Better than some self serving forign national whos only dream in life is screwing americans.
0 Votes
+ -
Tip of the Iceberg
HopeChest 26th Jun 2006
You have only scratched the tip of the iceberg about eBay not caring about it's members!

Go to the eBay forums and check out how eBay ignores sellers and shoppers alike. Here is just one example: http://forums.ebay.com/thread.jspa?forumID=21&threadID=1000215889

This seller had to build his own site at http://www.HopeChest.ws, because eBay cancelled all the store listings, then suspended the owner's store. Why? Because he listed too many items with a total retail price over an INVISIBLE amount using their turbo-lister software!

Since I am that store owner, I should write something in a blog or a page on my store's site, telling about my experiences with telephone harrassment and being charged for eBay fees, when no listings were allowed. (All fees were paid current when the store was suspended.)

Safe Harbor DOES NOT respond to sellers when they suspend selling privileges, other than to demand a lot of personally identifiable information.

You give them everything they ask for, but they will not do ANYTHING about your problem, nor will they communicate with you in any way. They just let your store fees build up, then sell the account to a collection agency (I.C. Systems), who harrass you by calling twice a day on any phone numbers you give eBay.

I suggest you stay away from eBay, because they have a whole new set of rules about how to list, how much you can list, and what you can say in a listing.

BTW, eBay will NEVER let anyone have any exposure on eBay, if they aren't paying eBay. You cannot even place a link to your own seb store on your listings.

As for PayPal, never had a problem with them.

HopeChest
0 Votes
+ -
Sorry, but looks like eBay deleted the whole topic in Forums, that I cited in the previous posting.

HopeChest
0 Votes
+ -
Foreign National??
HypnoGoddess 8th Jul 2006
Please excuse me. I am a US expatriate living in
the United Kingdom currently. How on earth did you get the idea that Ebay OR PayPal is owned
by foreign nationals? Or that it is an offshore holding?

If it were a foreign-based company, how did the US Patriot Act get brought against PP so swiftly in 2002, while indeed this act was still in the testing phases, and not yet inextricably linked with the IEEPA (International Emergency Economic Powers Act)?
0 Votes
+ -
No Way
louis.oconnell@... 26th Jun 2006
This would just end up as another way for eBay to charge retailers marketing fees, coupled with the retailer then being shown in the same category as every under-stair cupboard eBay seller.

It would be chaos! with no advantage to the bonafide retailer than that displayed by Google aready.

Let eBay stay where it is.
0 Votes
+ -
No Way?
IceTheNet@... 26th Jun 2006
"Let eBay stay where it is."

Let's not and say we did.

I say its time to drop the greedy pig and find a US based company with better morals and a methodology for recorse called the LAW.
0 Votes
+ -
eBay does do a good job ..
rretkwa@... 26th Jun 2006
..of getting individual eBay listings and eBay stores to show up in Google searches. There are also a lot of eBay listings that show up in MSN Shopping.
There is no "wall." Try a few more searches. I do a LOT of online shopping. I get eBay results on Google all the time.
0 Votes
+ -
Wall
aussie_149 30th Jun 2006
I can tell you there is no "wall" at all from where I am sitting. Quite often, I will do a search on google, and MOST of the results [page upon page of them] are for items on ebay. I don't know what he is doing differently, but Jeffrey's experience is definitely NOT my experience!
0 Votes
+ -
Dude, wrong Google domain.
Ginevra 26th Jun 2006
You should be searching Froogle, not Google. It includes all sorts of shopping-help features and does index eBay listings (though they're sometimes outdated.)

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?sourceid=ultrabar&q=b-17%20Navigator
0 Votes
+ -
You're shopping wrong
shanedr 26th Jun 2006
You can start with Google or any other search engine. But if you get more than a hundred returns then search for shopping sites. Once you have them then search for your item(s) just like you did on eBay.

Google may have some great search algorithms but they still need refining. When you searched "B-17" and "navigator" your results should only have included one or both of your search criteria; not the hundreds of totally unrelated results that anyone gets at present.

If Google Search had some serious competition no one would use Google because of all those returns that are totally unrelated to your search.
0 Votes
+ -
What about us non-Ebay business owners
spminis@... 26th Jun 2006
There are plenty of us who run businesses from websites and don't sell on Ebay. If Google drives all the business to Ebay, we're finished. It will also give Ebay too much power over online retail sales and they will be able to drive up their fees.

I used to sell on Ebay and got tired of dealing with flaky customers, taking time to leave feedback, and paying fees for everything.
0 Votes
+ -
Using Ebay
als2375 26th Jun 2006
It's alright for those of you with credit cards and all that, you can use eBay.
I don't have a credit card account so I CAN'T use eBay. eBay doesn't encourage use or buying unless you have either a credit card or PayPal account & I have neither so if I see something I would like to buy, I can't even contact the buyer to see if I can send the payment by post.
What use is having a site like eBay when there are people, who if they want to use the site are forced to do something they don't want to do ... that is to get a credit card.
I don't want one and I don't see the point of something that encourages a person to run up debts just to buy one item.
Facilities should be available for ones like me, who can't/won't get a credit card. Interest rates for paying back are too much as I've had a head/brain injury that leads me to be forgetful about short term things.
Sorry but I had to rant.
0 Votes
+ -
You can DO this (probably)
gregry 26th Jun 2006
The hell with what E-bay encourages. It's up to each seller what they will accept and every auction has an "ask the seller a question" link. Ask 'em. Most will take money orders. Really though you don't need a credit card. PayPal needs a bank account to join and most banks will issue a debit card for your account. You can use your debit card to get confirmed with PayPal. There's no need for a credit card at all on Ebay or PayPal. And you can pay with electronic transfers from your checking account, just don't forget to write them down. PayPal/Ebay far from perfect, but this problem you can get around.
0 Votes
+ -
YES, most sellers will accept money orders and cashier checks. For small items, I've seen they will even accept personal checks. Merchandise will be sent when check clears. I've used USPS Money Orders to hide my purchases (many) from my husband since I use my Debit Card from my checking account.
And Pay Pal WANTS you to to do the electronic transfer from checking account. That way the money goes immediately.
I haven't bought any truly EXPENSIVE items, but I sure have spent some money on eBay.
They should have a support group for eBay addicts!
0 Votes
+ -
Can't win.
sperkins_z 26th Jun 2006
I see your point but if they provided everything you wanted, others would complain that they are trying to shut out others. It reminds of the days when Microsoft did not have a browser. They were slammed, then they provided IE and then Netscape (remember their browser wasn't always free) cried foul and claimed Microsoft had a competitive advantage. Huge companies are always in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. My 1/2 cent.
0 Votes
+ -
eBay- no way
Xwindowsjunkie 26th Jun 2006
I will not buy anything from eBay again, period.
I've gotten burned too many times. Until they come up with a way to insure, bond, indemify or whatever the listings on their sites so that purchasers don't get scammed I will never buy from an eBay listing again.

The reason the traditional retail stores are still standing is that you can hold the product in your hand and look at it before you buy it.

Until eBay makes the purchase as secure as that, there will always be room for retail. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Young you got lucky you didn't get ripped off.
0 Votes
+ -
Ebay mashup
thepinkpantherlive 27th Jun 2006
I was a regular buyer on Ebay until thier big sellers and I came to a disagreement and Ebay would'nt live up to thier protection policies for buyers becuase this seller(two different ones) made them the money more then I.I phoned ,wrote and pleaded till I turned blue and wanted to through them a hand gernade.They and the infamous Paypal which you have to have sent my money to a seller and I never recieved the item(ie.WARNING:Finding King on Ebay)power seller.This is where I lost $53.79 for a paid buy it now and the seller did not deliver and no matter what I filed or who I talked to on the phone(waste of time friends) nothing was done to seller and NO REFUND given or offered.Ebay and Paypal protect thier own and only use buyers like myself and steal by E-Commerce.Note* second seller of power>trading_circuit Shop elsewhere and be happy.
0 Votes
+ -
Questions
CO77 29th Jun 2006
You said all this already at the top of this page.
I'm wondering why *anyone would deal with sellers like you mentioned which have a less than 98 % positive rating in the first place.
Re: tax exemptions, what do jewelry wholesalers and a Circuit City electronics seller have to do with agriculture anyway? Non-taxable?? Hmmmm?

You don?t *have to have Pay-Pal-use postal money orders or other available options. And NEVER send cash like the complainer above did.

I've purchased on eBay for several years and just got 'burned' FOR THE FIRST TIME when I didn't read the ad carefully enough and bought an item for less than a dollar with THIRTY FIVE DOLLAR SHIPPING!
In spite of eBay?s own text stating that sellers must charge *reasonable shipping and the obvious dodge of not paying fees by charging a buck for a sale with 35.00 shipping, my complaint was rejected as still a reasonable shipping. IMHO, that?s a crock! That won?t happen again!!

Buying carelessly in this case was my own fault. But I was NOT a happy camper with the lack of resolution!
0 Votes
+ -
consolidate?
CO77 29th Jun 2006
"If eBay keeps its listings in a walled garden then it should provide a comparison shopping engine for every retail, and classified ad seller on the web from within that walled garden. Think of it like this: Adding a product comparison engine?no, the best price and product comparison engine?would make it the destination of choice whenever anyone wanted to buy anything, new, used or whatever"

Fergetaboutit!

Why take something that is already becoming unwieldy and making it more so by adding every possible selling venue to it?
I want retail OUT of it!
Let them get their OWN so called auction site.

And, when I use Google, I *do get eBay ads, mostly expired....


It's a bad idea in my opinion.
0 Votes
+ -
Try OnlineAuction.com
Indo69 6th Jul 2006
You must give Online Auction (ola.com) a try. Power Sellers are moving over there because of the low, low cost of operation. check it out!!
0 Votes
+ -
John Sturner
sossner@... 25th Oct 2006
Please call me at once to resolve this important matter. Edward M. Sossner, Esq 518-463-3600
0 Votes
+ -
try mpire.com
matt_hulett 13th Jul 2006
Sorry for the shameless plug, but we created a shopping service that combines multi-marketplace and market value analtyics. You get to see what you should be paying for virtually any item.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix