Jason Perlow
Price is right
or
Not this time
David Morgenstern
Best Argument:
Price is right
Audience Favored:
Price is right (82%)
List of Events:
Opening Statements
$200 is the magic price point
Jason Perlow: In 2010, Apple set off the "Big Bang" for the tablet industry, by introducing the iPad. While the consumer electronics giant did not create the tablet, they created the entire model for which all tablets must have today: an App store as well as cloud-based services to back it up.
However, at an entry point of $500, the iPad (and other full size Android tablets that followed) cannot ever be the "People's Tablet" or the industry equivalent of the Volkswagen.
While cheaper than most desktops and laptops, iPad is still too expensive to stay the market leader. There is still a huge untapped market to fill for people that don't own a tablet at all and would prefer to spend considerably less money on a digital convergence device.
Indeed, $200 is the magic price point that will enable tens of millions of people to buy tablets and eventually propel us into the Post-PC era that Steve Jobs will establish as his true legacy.
It ain’t going to happen this time
David Morgenstern: Every couple of months there comes along a technology vendor with an announcement of a tablet that will knock the iPad off its dominating 75+ percent share of the market. It ain’t going to happen this time with Amazon's Kindle Fire and Barnes & Nobles' NOOKColor.
The problem for competitors is multifold -- even those as well-funded as Amazon and B&N, which have captive audiences in popular Internet storefronts. The Apple iOS/iPad combo is now a major computing platform for enterprise, business and consumer segments; the iPad is now integrated into many uses beyond simple content playback, including sci-tech and industrial segments. And its form factor is completely understandable by users. The iPad’s large user base make it attractive to developers, whether for consumer or business apps.
All these hurdles make it difficult for the competition, even devices with a smaller handprint. Perhaps other devices can find niches. Or maybe not.
The Rebuttal
Closing Statements
It's all about price and value.
Jason Perlow
I've already stated that I feel very strongly that Kindle Fire will succeed because of price and the value add that Amazon brings to the table with their content delivery capabilities and integrated app ecosystem.
My opponent, while making some valid arguments relies heavily on Apple's current strong market position and is under the questionable assumption that their research into form factors and Steve Jobs's vision ultimately will outlast Amazon's attempt at achieving tablet supremacy.
But even visionaries can sometimes be dead wrong. Thomas Edison, the man who Steve Jobs has been compared to numerous times, was stubbornly convinced beyond any doubt that Direct Current (DC) was the future in electrical power.
It only took an enterprising businessman named George Westinghouse and the brilliant mind of a young Nikola Tesla to prove him to be incorrect, and as a result the much more efficient Alternating Current (AC) became in use all over the world for power transmission instead.
Is Jeff Bezos destined to be the George Westinghouse of tablets and digital convergence? We'll soon find out.
Apple sells a 'real' tablet
David Morgenstern
As Jason suggests, the question isn't really whether Amazon or B&N have the better hardware than the Apple iPad, because they don't. Or whether they have the better ecosystem or the larger number of apps for the platform. They don't.
Instead, the question for the tablet market is whether $200 will be the magic price point for mass market consumers to enter the tablet market. Ironically for Amazon, this year’s impulse buy may be last year’s buzz. Consumers may finally get behind the mobile e-book reader proposition and go for the $79 Kindle model, rather than the more expensive 7-inch iPad wannabes without apps.
Apple keeps showing customers and its competitors what a real tablet can do. It has sold 40 million iPads in 18 months. And that’s not counting this fall quarter. And Amazon is selling Fires below cost. Where’s the beef?
Huge impact ahead
Jason Hiner
The iPad has resiliently fended off challenges from a steady stream of upstart tablets throughout 2011. However, it is about to get its stiffest challenge yet from the Kindle Fire. As Perlow noted, Amazon has nearly all the pieces in place to challenge Apple from an ecosystem perspective, and that's far more important than the tablet itself. While I still have my doubts about the general usefulness of a 7-inch tablet, the $199 price tag of the Kindle Fire will override those concerns for most people.
Barnes & Noble doesn't have the ecosystem and its tablet is $50 more expensive than the Kindle Fire, so I don't see it being as big of a threat. The best thing the Nook Tablet has going for it is a strong retail presence. I also don't see either the Kindle Fire or the Nook Tablet being as appealing to business professionals, who are some of the iPad's most steady buyers because they want to use the tablet for both work and leisure.
Still, I give Perlow the nod on this one. The Kindle Fire is about to have a huge impact on the tablet market.
More from "The Great Debate"
$200 tablets are basically hardware storefronts. They may be a "game changer" but they're not raelly a challenge to the iPad. I do expect that we'll see a 7" iPad sooner or later, though. It's not the price of the $200 tablets that's most significant IMHO. The form factor is the more interesting aspect, and I think Apple is hurting itself by not recognizing that 7" tablets provide an ideal compromise between screen real-estate and portability that a 10" tablet cannot match.
@dsf3g
.....because "somebody" can get away with it!
"Major computing platform....?" lol
.....because "somebody" can get away with it!
"Major computing platform....?" lol
At 250. Nook Color is the best buy so far. If they only added a mic and camera, Nook Color would be the best tablet!.
Having said that. Asus Tablet at 300 is still the best buy around.
Having said that. Asus Tablet at 300 is still the best buy around.
The price is a significant factor. While the Fire is intentionally limited in scope, it does make you think about the trade-offs between price, form and function. As far as I'm concerned, I was never in the market for a small tablet (the 7" form-factor turned me off the first time I saw one), nor was I in the market for one of limited capability. But, with the price at $200 and, as an existing Prime customer I'm already part of Amazon's zombie army, I'm thinking I could do this. I wonder what the resale value of my year-old Kindle might be?
Anyway, if I am ever going consider a tablet as a mobile productivity device (Apple need not apply), it's going to be 10" or larger. But Amazon is not pretending to be that sort of device; I'll look elsewhere when the time comes.
Anyway, if I am ever going consider a tablet as a mobile productivity device (Apple need not apply), it's going to be 10" or larger. But Amazon is not pretending to be that sort of device; I'll look elsewhere when the time comes.
@jvitous Kindle Trade-in value - not much. Between $20 and $100 depending on which model. Go here to find out how much Amazon will give you as a trade-in. http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/s/ref=tradeinavs?url=rh%3Dn%3A2226766011%26i%3Delectronics-tradein&field-keywords=Kindle&Go.x=15&Go.y=16
Yes it is a game changer. Tablets at $500+ were over priced for what they could do. Laptops could be had for the same price and do a whole lot more. $200 is a better price to consumers that want a tablet. It could still be a little cheaper though. Apple is going to face serious competition with the Kindle Fire mainly because of the price.
It might be. Certainly more can afford it, but it all depends on if it has value for what the consumer needs. I personally refuse to buy iAnything, but I doubt I would buy this either because it most likely won't do what I want it to.
In no way is a Kindle an iPad killer or a substitute for it. Most likely it will drive people toward the iPad or other clone-like device after experiencing the feel of a "tablet" for reading and surfing. But the iPad does so much more and has such greater potential for uses. A Kindle is a Kindle is a Kindle. Yet, Amazon isn't stupid! Does anyone believe they are not working on a full-fledged tablet to really compete with Apple with a $400 product? The Kindle Fire is just an appetizer. Its a first step that will whet the appetite for people not ready to plunk down $500. (And yes, they'll end up spending more in the long run - just like all those who shelled out for a Kindle and will now upgrade to the Fire.) Kindle Inferno is next.
Kindle Fire is the opening salvo of "good enough" tablets. It is really a no brainer for those already with Prime accts.
I generally follow this line with my computer purchases as well. If I buy "good enough" this year, I can upgrade next year to something more powerful than the current "best" for the same money, have two devices and still spent less than if I'd gotten the best available at the time. Next year Fire II (or whatever) will be out also for $200 and be better than the current iPad2, Galaxys or Xooms. Will it be better than next year's batches of Tablets? No. But I'll still come out ahead.
I generally follow this line with my computer purchases as well. If I buy "good enough" this year, I can upgrade next year to something more powerful than the current "best" for the same money, have two devices and still spent less than if I'd gotten the best available at the time. Next year Fire II (or whatever) will be out also for $200 and be better than the current iPad2, Galaxys or Xooms. Will it be better than next year's batches of Tablets? No. But I'll still come out ahead.
@admiraljkb
I have a Transformer so I don't need one but I know a few folks who would - like said, it is a moderatively inexpensive step.
I have a Transformer so I don't need one but I know a few folks who would - like said, it is a moderatively inexpensive step.
To a certain extent, yes.
The painful truth is, even Apple themselves are admitting that the iPad is not a replacement for the desktop/laptop. Otherwise they'd have abolished the Mac. Consumers are not fools either and would realize this too -- tablets and iPads are a bad device for content creation. Especially on a locked down device.
There are plenty of families who would want view the desktop/laptop as the primary device still. If there is disposable income, then go for the iPad or tablet. And how much are Windows PCs selling now? For many families, it's very hard to justify a $500 budget devoted to the iPad or tablet they can buy a device that provides more functionality (PC, Mac, etc.)
The painful truth is, even Apple themselves are admitting that the iPad is not a replacement for the desktop/laptop. Otherwise they'd have abolished the Mac. Consumers are not fools either and would realize this too -- tablets and iPads are a bad device for content creation. Especially on a locked down device.
There are plenty of families who would want view the desktop/laptop as the primary device still. If there is disposable income, then go for the iPad or tablet. And how much are Windows PCs selling now? For many families, it's very hard to justify a $500 budget devoted to the iPad or tablet they can buy a device that provides more functionality (PC, Mac, etc.)
The painful truth is, even Apple themselves are admitting that the iPad is not a replacement for the desktop/laptop.
I don't think they ever said it would be. Can you point to some statement in the past where they explicitly said this?
Consumers are not fools either and would realize this too -- tablets and iPads are a bad device for content creation. Especially on a locked down device.
I would agree with that. However, not everybody creates content. I believe most people consume it the same way they would consume content on a desktop or PC.
For many families, it's very hard to justify a $500 budget devoted to the iPad or tablet they can buy a device that provides more functionality (PC, Mac, etc.)
Only if they want that kind of functionality, which it seems, many do not.
I don't think they ever said it would be. Can you point to some statement in the past where they explicitly said this?
Consumers are not fools either and would realize this too -- tablets and iPads are a bad device for content creation. Especially on a locked down device.
I would agree with that. However, not everybody creates content. I believe most people consume it the same way they would consume content on a desktop or PC.
For many families, it's very hard to justify a $500 budget devoted to the iPad or tablet they can buy a device that provides more functionality (PC, Mac, etc.)
Only if they want that kind of functionality, which it seems, many do not.
With 512MB of RAM 8GB of storage (roughly 6GB to end user) Kindle Fire doesn't compete with iPad. Kindle Fire is good enough to be a e-book reader with few extras - the music & movies. I don't think it'll appeal to power users. Having said that, as competition progresses I'm sure iPad prices will come down to 300-400$ in near future.
@xTalk
I don't see the active selling version, now or in the future dropping to the $300 - -$400 level....
Not Apples style.
I don't see the active selling version, now or in the future dropping to the $300 - -$400 level....
Not Apples style.
Going by the early reviews that the device is not total junk (I didn't expect it to be, but for $199 that coulda happened), I expect them to sell millions of these things. Tens of millions once they expand around the world.
Will it kill the iPad? No, but it'll put a big dent in it. What it will kill is all the Android iPad-wannabes like the Galaxy Tabs. This also pretty much means the end of Windows 8 as a tablet OS in the consumer market. It'll be hard enough for OEMsto compete with Amazon just on a hardware basis; doing it while paying for a Windows license will be impossible.
Just wait until Bring Your Device to Work Day, right after Christmas. The IT Department is going to be so happy about this.
Will it kill the iPad? No, but it'll put a big dent in it. What it will kill is all the Android iPad-wannabes like the Galaxy Tabs. This also pretty much means the end of Windows 8 as a tablet OS in the consumer market. It'll be hard enough for OEMsto compete with Amazon just on a hardware basis; doing it while paying for a Windows license will be impossible.
Just wait until Bring Your Device to Work Day, right after Christmas. The IT Department is going to be so happy about this.
Has anybody but me tried Magic Jack on the iPad? It works reeeeeal gooood. Seriously.
Which raises the question: How much VOIP could a CloudVOIP VOIP if a CloudVOIP could VOIP VOIP? Because what we have here is guy who is thissssClose to being a handset maker who already has one of the largest Cloud infrastructures in the world. Were Amazon to buy Magic Jack, host it on Amazon EC2, and put it in next-gen 3G Kindles of various sorts (and maybe even just WiFi Kindles), they would be an even bigger pain than they're going to be with the Fire.
Which raises the question: How much VOIP could a CloudVOIP VOIP if a CloudVOIP could VOIP VOIP? Because what we have here is guy who is thissssClose to being a handset maker who already has one of the largest Cloud infrastructures in the world. Were Amazon to buy Magic Jack, host it on Amazon EC2, and put it in next-gen 3G Kindles of various sorts (and maybe even just WiFi Kindles), they would be an even bigger pain than they're going to be with the Fire.
@Robert Hahn
Most people don't care who owns what, they just want something that works. Skype does, Magic Jack, not so much.
Most people don't care who owns what, they just want something that works. Skype does, Magic Jack, not so much.
I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The iPad is a tablet, the Kindle Fire is an ebook reader with some cool extras. I don't see the Fire competing with any tablet, because they're totally different and offer different options.
That sounds like something the product manager of the TouchPad probably said during the executive review of the project when asked, "Why won't the iPad squash you like a bug?"
If anybody at Apple believes anything like what you said, they are smoking rope.
That said, Tim Cook is if anything smart about what components are out there and what things cost to manufacture. Apple probably had a pretty good idea what the Worst Case Scenario would be for a well-made iPad competitor from a reputable firm. I doubt the $199 price knocked them back on their heels. The question is what they have up their sleeve to answer it. Between now and the end of the year: nothing. Amazon will be supply-limited on these things through the holidays, so there's no reason for Apple to leave money on the table. After that, we'll see.
If anybody at Apple believes anything like what you said, they are smoking rope.
That said, Tim Cook is if anything smart about what components are out there and what things cost to manufacture. Apple probably had a pretty good idea what the Worst Case Scenario would be for a well-made iPad competitor from a reputable firm. I doubt the $199 price knocked them back on their heels. The question is what they have up their sleeve to answer it. Between now and the end of the year: nothing. Amazon will be supply-limited on these things through the holidays, so there's no reason for Apple to leave money on the table. After that, we'll see.
@purple212
when some product isn't copied. Yes it sounds odd, but it's true, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and if you're not imitatating, they're insulted, so they need to find something, anything to "compare" with te iPad.
It's like fighting over which is the better vehicle - the F150 or the Camaro
when some product isn't copied. Yes it sounds odd, but it's true, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and if you're not imitatating, they're insulted, so they need to find something, anything to "compare" with te iPad.
It's like fighting over which is the better vehicle - the F150 or the Camaro
@purple212
If you really believe it is a reader you need to get some of Robert's rope.
Let's see, buy an iPad or buy a Fire and a smartphone......
Hmmm.......
If you are on a limited budget, the phone takes precedence so guess which route they will go...
Think working teens who's parents won't put out.
Chuckle
If you really believe it is a reader you need to get some of Robert's rope.
Let's see, buy an iPad or buy a Fire and a smartphone......
Hmmm.......
If you are on a limited budget, the phone takes precedence so guess which route they will go...
Think working teens who's parents won't put out.
Chuckle
@rhonin
This is the same audience that made the iPod such a smash.....
This is the same audience that made the iPod such a smash.....
You can also take a middle-ground option, and guess that the advent of more and more cheap, functional tablets might see a GRADUAL killing off of the iPad's dominance... kind of like how the Mac only has around 4% global market share, in large part because only a fraction of the world population can pay for one. It was shown that, in 2008, the average price of a PC was $550, whereas Macs were $1,500. So, I think tablets will probably do the same thing, at least if Apple doesn't rethink stuff quickly.
NOW, I think the uninformed will just have to *realize* that cheap tablets exist, and are desirable... and, well, that probably won't happen overnight. The majority of the population doesn't pay attention to tech news, or any sources of wisdom. Right now, people just want what they want... and they sometimes even take enlightenment about what they should buy as simply bad news (like, "Awww, I wanted an iPad. Now I have to consider something else, and that's not what I wanted.")
NOW, I think the uninformed will just have to *realize* that cheap tablets exist, and are desirable... and, well, that probably won't happen overnight. The majority of the population doesn't pay attention to tech news, or any sources of wisdom. Right now, people just want what they want... and they sometimes even take enlightenment about what they should buy as simply bad news (like, "Awww, I wanted an iPad. Now I have to consider something else, and that's not what I wanted.")
@Dario D.
Like a friend who wanted an iPad2
Went to the store and. Ame away wanting either a Galaxy Tab 10 or iPad2.
Then found out Best Buy has a discount center....
Tab being delivered tomorrow?
They need to learn it's out there...
and the Fire can do that.
Like a friend who wanted an iPad2
Went to the store and. Ame away wanting either a Galaxy Tab 10 or iPad2.
Then found out Best Buy has a discount center....
Tab being delivered tomorrow?
They need to learn it's out there...
and the Fire can do that.
The price is right, for the productivity and use current tablets are way over priced. Keep in mind that you do not NEED a tablet and for the current prices you could purchase a new computer.
Though the 7" factor is not viable for me, at least the ball is rolling.
Though the 7" factor is not viable for me, at least the ball is rolling.
The people's tablet is the one that replaces a Personal Laptop withouth taking away the capabilities and productivity; only adds a touch of genius to them. An example being the Lenovo ThinkPad tablet running Windows 8 
@MrElectrifyer I don't believe that tablets will replace a laptop, too many people do not find it comfortable to type on a screen. If you are adding a physical keyboard, you might as well get the whole thing in one form-factor.
@Dodgson1832 That's my point, the Lenovo Thinkpad (when running windows ei8ht), will be simply a PC with a detachable touch screen monitor.
Still don't see the benefit over a complete laptop? Here's a small example:
Use the monitor alone when you wanna have some iPad like fun or take notes with a software like Office OneNote. Attach the keyboard when you wanna do some research or type up an essay. That's more convenient than one of today's full blown Tablet PCs
Still don't see the benefit over a complete laptop? Here's a small example:
Use the monitor alone when you wanna have some iPad like fun or take notes with a software like Office OneNote. Attach the keyboard when you wanna do some research or type up an essay. That's more convenient than one of today's full blown Tablet PCs
@Dodgson1832
Another picture: Transformer tablet with keyboard dock running Win8
Another picture: Transformer tablet with keyboard dock running Win8
The majority of people buy based on price. There is a reason that most pcs are not apple or gaming rigs, people want a device that has a certain level of functionality and then look to the cheapest price. $500 is a ludicrous amount to pay for a tablet. You can buy a laptop for that price that would do worlds more. I think that those who are willing/able to buy and iPad aren't really of the same mindset of the vast majority of consumers.
"or the industry equivalent of the Volkswagen"
It should be noted that Volkswagen was largely a fad - you don't see too many of them on the road anymore. They're pretty much the same as any other auto manufacturer now.
I just don't see the "Post PC" era, to be honest. People aren't throwing away their PCs just because they have a tablet. PCs are still better for long typing sessions. PCs are still better gaming machines. PCs still have fully featured applications. No price is going to get us into a "Post PC" era.
That being said, I like the idea of many form factors in the home, and I like the idea of these devices being ultra cheap, so that they can be common. I'd say $25 is actually a good price in the long term future.
It should be noted that Volkswagen was largely a fad - you don't see too many of them on the road anymore. They're pretty much the same as any other auto manufacturer now.
I just don't see the "Post PC" era, to be honest. People aren't throwing away their PCs just because they have a tablet. PCs are still better for long typing sessions. PCs are still better gaming machines. PCs still have fully featured applications. No price is going to get us into a "Post PC" era.
That being said, I like the idea of many form factors in the home, and I like the idea of these devices being ultra cheap, so that they can be common. I'd say $25 is actually a good price in the long term future.
@CobraA1 You must be pretty young to call the VW Beetle a fad.
I believe it has sold more than any other vehicle in history!
You must be talking about the recent revival, not the original vehicle.
I've been using what I guess is a magic nook color with CM7 for about a year. Must be magic, cause I use it for everything, no lag, creating spreadsheets and text documents (with a USB keyboard), reading emails, articles on a 7" screen. It hasn't even fragmentated once!
You know, all the stuff they say here is impossible or undesirable.
The Kindle fire is the peoples tablet, if you want to define tablets as souped-up e-readers.
I believe it has sold more than any other vehicle in history!
You must be talking about the recent revival, not the original vehicle.
I've been using what I guess is a magic nook color with CM7 for about a year. Must be magic, cause I use it for everything, no lag, creating spreadsheets and text documents (with a USB keyboard), reading emails, articles on a 7" screen. It hasn't even fragmentated once!
You know, all the stuff they say here is impossible or undesirable.
The Kindle fire is the peoples tablet, if you want to define tablets as souped-up e-readers.
@radleym
"You must be pretty young to call the VW Beetle a fad."
Height of VW's popularity was what, '60s and '70s? I was born in 1980. Not terribly young, but young enough to have missed its peak and only hear about it later.
Yeah, they were probably sold more than anything else - but as I understand it, they were generally associated with the end of WWII and the "hippie" subculture at the time. Which eventually died down - I don't see any hippies today, except maybe some old timers.
So, yeah - the definition of a fad is basically that something sold very well at one time, but doesn't sell that well anymore. I would place the VW in that category - it had pretty much died out before I was born.
"You must be pretty young to call the VW Beetle a fad."
Height of VW's popularity was what, '60s and '70s? I was born in 1980. Not terribly young, but young enough to have missed its peak and only hear about it later.
Yeah, they were probably sold more than anything else - but as I understand it, they were generally associated with the end of WWII and the "hippie" subculture at the time. Which eventually died down - I don't see any hippies today, except maybe some old timers.
So, yeah - the definition of a fad is basically that something sold very well at one time, but doesn't sell that well anymore. I would place the VW in that category - it had pretty much died out before I was born.
I don't think the iPad is overpriced, but I do think it offers a lot more than most people need/want. I have a rooted 7" Nook Color running Gingerbread and an iPad1 and the Nook is my go to device for what I like to do with a tablet. I can read, browse the web and keep notes/docs on it and it's easy to tote around. It can even run a lot of games and stream music.
The iPad is definitely the better device and has a richer collection of apps , but I'd be a lot more likely to buy the new Nook Tablet than an iPad 2. The Nook does 90 percent of what I want at 50 percent of the price. It's a no-brainer.
The iPad is definitely the better device and has a richer collection of apps , but I'd be a lot more likely to buy the new Nook Tablet than an iPad 2. The Nook does 90 percent of what I want at 50 percent of the price. It's a no-brainer.
@LooseWingnut Agreed. I had a rooted nook color using gingerbread and found it so useful that I sold it to get a 10 inch honeycomb tablet. That was a mistake. The honeycomb tablet is a much more mature device but the NC was the perfect size. It was always with me. The heavy 10 inch tablet is not.
The key here is really what do MOST people do with their iPads? Share picture albums, read email, read books, watch some moviesv/TV, music, and surf the web. For that mix of experiences, the Kindle Fire will be "good enough" at price where you can buy TWO for less than the lowest price iPad. In fact, a family of four can EACH have their very own Kindle for the price of the top of the line iPad. Couple this with headlines teh last few days of escalating developer interest in the Kindle, and you have a hot product segment.
The real immediate losers will be all those Android iPad-wannabes in the middle between the Kindle and iPad. Then it will be iPad taking a hit on its flank from the Kindle. Jason is right - Kindle is the Ford Focus getting you from A to B; iPad is the Mercedes series with recognizable class status. Let the games begin.
The real immediate losers will be all those Android iPad-wannabes in the middle between the Kindle and iPad. Then it will be iPad taking a hit on its flank from the Kindle. Jason is right - Kindle is the Ford Focus getting you from A to B; iPad is the Mercedes series with recognizable class status. Let the games begin.
you kids are crazy.
Not only are $200 tablets a game changer, but we will see much higher quality $200 tablets sooner than later.
Prices are droppng fast and quality is getting better, we have reached a tipping point, where price and product are now "good enough". And good enough wins the lion share of the market
Not only are $200 tablets a game changer, but we will see much higher quality $200 tablets sooner than later.
Prices are droppng fast and quality is getting better, we have reached a tipping point, where price and product are now "good enough". And good enough wins the lion share of the market
I'm surprised that the new Nook Tablet is not the one being used for comparison. It has better expansion and more power. If I really want to read in the Kindle format I'm sure I can install that app on the Nook as well as other Apps. The new Nook Tablet is the game changer for me.
I would love to have a Tablet for less than $300 . . . but let's be realistic, the hardware and services in the Nook Color and Kindle Fire are limited when compared with the iPad or other Tablets. It's like buying a video game console only by the price, it may be interesting and useful for some time but in the end you will regret it.
Sells can be deceiving, but maybe in the end the people will start upgrading their cheap Tablets.
Sells can be deceiving, but maybe in the end the people will start upgrading their cheap Tablets.
@RenzoAC
Check out the $299 HTC Flyer (my personal favorite). For that extra $50-100, you add 1 gb RAM, 16gb SSD, 32gb micro-SD capacity, front and rear cameras, microphone, GPS, Bluetooth 3, full Android market, unibody aluminum construction, AND I can read EVERY book format except iBook (Kindle, Nook, Kobo, epub you name it).
Check out the $299 HTC Flyer (my personal favorite). For that extra $50-100, you add 1 gb RAM, 16gb SSD, 32gb micro-SD capacity, front and rear cameras, microphone, GPS, Bluetooth 3, full Android market, unibody aluminum construction, AND I can read EVERY book format except iBook (Kindle, Nook, Kobo, epub you name it).
"Price, Price and Price. And Content/Value Add. The 7" form factor is valid but none of the previous devices have had the correct combination of pricing as well as ecosystem and content in order to be compelling enough for the consumer. Kindle Fire and Amazon Prime is the correct formula for this type of device." - couldn't have said it better!!
New Year Resolution and Christmas Wish List: Progress has been made with many excellent services and applications. Drop price on all Apple products and offer a bundled pricing so the whole world can rejoice.
Sorry Jason, you still don't get it, people don't care about specs, they care about usability and the iPad dominates in this area.
@Axsimulate Wow, are you ever wrong. Totally, incredibly, completely.
A subset of people have the same priorities as you, true. But most people operate under a concept we might call The "Good Enough" Principle. They ask themselves if they REALLY need to do everything (and the very act of asking that question usually means "no"), and then decide on a subset of features they can settle on, and a cost.
To a degree people may also buy because they feel something is better supported, or more "hip", or has better TV commercials, or a bunch of other reasons. The iPod dominating over other cheaper music players was partly because of that. But the other thing the iPod had was an ecosystem--an app and a backing store to download music (and later videos) conveniently. And that helped sell the device (and still does).
This is where the "Good Enough" of the Fire comes in. Its good the roots of a pretty powerful content ecosystem too. People who were happy before now just using an iPod, who hadn't leaped to the iPad, will notice this, because its backed by another company these people already trust. So its finally a competitor for Apple in that sense, even if its not really taking the same customers. It will take the low end, and Apple will continue with the high end. Whether you like it or not.
A subset of people have the same priorities as you, true. But most people operate under a concept we might call The "Good Enough" Principle. They ask themselves if they REALLY need to do everything (and the very act of asking that question usually means "no"), and then decide on a subset of features they can settle on, and a cost.
To a degree people may also buy because they feel something is better supported, or more "hip", or has better TV commercials, or a bunch of other reasons. The iPod dominating over other cheaper music players was partly because of that. But the other thing the iPod had was an ecosystem--an app and a backing store to download music (and later videos) conveniently. And that helped sell the device (and still does).
This is where the "Good Enough" of the Fire comes in. Its good the roots of a pretty powerful content ecosystem too. People who were happy before now just using an iPod, who hadn't leaped to the iPad, will notice this, because its backed by another company these people already trust. So its finally a competitor for Apple in that sense, even if its not really taking the same customers. It will take the low end, and Apple will continue with the high end. Whether you like it or not.
The KF is NOT the people's Tablet-it's hardware capabilities are not up to the task. The price is right, however. It's Price is VERY right. Within six months Apple will compete directly in this price range but they will not have a product called an iPad Nano. It will be the next gen iPod Touch. (everyone should remember their puzzlement this year when the iPod Touch was not updated. There was a reason for that!)
Although I admire the industrial design and software of the iPad, I would never own one. Why? One word - Apple. I do not like the many things about Apple, but two in particular - the closed EcoSystem and the Form over Function style of Apple Products over the last 10 years are my major objections. With Steve Jobs now departed from this earth, my attitude may soften and change as I believe that he was not some much the great Innovator but rather the great Imitator and Marketer with the ability to make people believe all Apple's products were unique. A great skill in itself, but his legacy will end up being the destruction of the Mobile device market mired in pointless patent and legal disputes for the next decade.
Although I will readily agree that the time of the iPad dominance isn't over, the iPad is not and never will be the people's tablet.
Although I will readily agree that the time of the iPad dominance isn't over, the iPad is not and never will be the people's tablet.
The problem I have with the press on this whole debate is that they're trying to compare two different devices. It's like comparing a laptop and a netbook. Sure you can try to do things on a netbook that you do on a laptop but in the end they're two different devices. Same with the iPad and Kindle Fire. The one is a full fledged tablet computer. The other is a sophisticated media device. I haven't gotten my hands on my Kindle (which arrives today) but from the reviews I've seen it does what it was designed for and does it well. The same is true of the iPad. The key is that both are price right for the market for which they were intended. There is some competion just as there is (was) between netbooks and laptops but in the end people will realize the potential of each and many will choose to own both.
@richslab@...
Wow
Been trying to use it full fledged for a while now.
Not working for me..
Wait! Maybe I'm using it wrong!
Wow
Been trying to use it full fledged for a while now.
Not working for me..
Wait! Maybe I'm using it wrong!
I keep hearing that it's all about the price. That the lower price is all that resonate with consumers. Yet when I look back at how Apple dominated the mp3 space, they certainly weren't the cheapest players. Some would even consider iPods as premium many years ago next to others like Creative Zens, Rio and the Sandisk Sansas who were seen as impulse purchase around the holidays. So why did consumers for over a decade continue to buy the more expensive premium iPods if there were much cheaper players in the market?
Maybe consumers are not as dumb as some may think and see value well past just the price sticker. Everyone's describing the Fire as an impulse buy for consumers at $199, which to me translates to: Pulling the wool over one's eye. How many times have we bought something on impulse only to be disappointed a short time later? If you are not already a Amazon Prime customer, then you will need to pay an additional $79 after a month of using the device, just to continue streaming videos and accessing other Prime features. Everything is streamed from the cloud so a broadband/wireless is pretty much required to have in those "rest of us" households.
Listen, I think the Kindle Fire will continue to sell well, when compared to other Android tablets. But lets not start comparing it to what Apple is doing with the iPad. The iPad is in a whole different league. Larger better screen, smooth UI, no choppiness Android is known for. Larger iTunes/iPod content (millions in love with iPod+iTunes). Larger more robust tablet specific apps and games (Apple leads in mobile games). Camera, GPS, Mic for apps like Skype and Facetime.
iPads are currently being used in vertical markets like hospitals, retail, restaurants, airlines (and airline cockpit), car dealers and manufacturers, hotels, government, and they're everywhere in the enterprise. The size and portability of the 10" iPad is more ideal for many of those industries compared to the smaller 7" form factor.
The iPad leads the way in accessibility for the blind and visually impaired. It continue to have an industry leading battery life. The largest selection of accessories and after-market products. The great convenient support at the many Apple stores across the world (Amazon is US only and have no brick n mortar presence of their own). Like I said Amazon will continue to sell, just not on the level of Apple.
Maybe consumers are not as dumb as some may think and see value well past just the price sticker. Everyone's describing the Fire as an impulse buy for consumers at $199, which to me translates to: Pulling the wool over one's eye. How many times have we bought something on impulse only to be disappointed a short time later? If you are not already a Amazon Prime customer, then you will need to pay an additional $79 after a month of using the device, just to continue streaming videos and accessing other Prime features. Everything is streamed from the cloud so a broadband/wireless is pretty much required to have in those "rest of us" households.
Listen, I think the Kindle Fire will continue to sell well, when compared to other Android tablets. But lets not start comparing it to what Apple is doing with the iPad. The iPad is in a whole different league. Larger better screen, smooth UI, no choppiness Android is known for. Larger iTunes/iPod content (millions in love with iPod+iTunes). Larger more robust tablet specific apps and games (Apple leads in mobile games). Camera, GPS, Mic for apps like Skype and Facetime.
iPads are currently being used in vertical markets like hospitals, retail, restaurants, airlines (and airline cockpit), car dealers and manufacturers, hotels, government, and they're everywhere in the enterprise. The size and portability of the 10" iPad is more ideal for many of those industries compared to the smaller 7" form factor.
The iPad leads the way in accessibility for the blind and visually impaired. It continue to have an industry leading battery life. The largest selection of accessories and after-market products. The great convenient support at the many Apple stores across the world (Amazon is US only and have no brick n mortar presence of their own). Like I said Amazon will continue to sell, just not on the level of Apple.
Which type of game you're talking about? Roadrash (The baby type) or FIFA 2012, Battlefield 3, GTA Vice City etc. etc. I believe a game can be played only on PC or at least Xbox 360, Play Station.
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RE: Great Debate: Is Amazon's Kindle Fire the People's Tablet?
RE: Great Debate: Is Amazon's Kindle Fire the People's Tablet?
It seems to me that Mr. Morgenstern is just another Apple bigot who seems to be unwilling to accept the fact that Amazon just might be very successful with this device. How does he know that Amazon will never get a significant number of Apps for this machine? Personally, I am agnostic to the debate over the two platforms, but only hope that Amazon will continually improve their tablet(s) over the coming years and continually increase their offerings of service content as they have been over the last several months.
I enjoy watching TV reruns, movies and other video content on my Fire. It is small enough that it is not burdensome and streaming works perfectly, so this has been a great purchase.
I am awaiting the arrival of Windows 8 to see what Microsoft does to this field as I believe they will have the iPad challenger because it will offer full-fledged Microsoft Office from the get-go. I do not understand why the phone market has not realized this along with several other reasons why Windows Phone 7.5 is superior to the iPhone.
RE: Great Debate: Is Amazon's Kindle Fire the People's Tablet?
RE: Great Debate: Is Amazon's Kindle Fire the People's Tablet?
A subset of people have the same priorities as you, true. But most people operate under a concept we might call The "Good Enough" Principle. They ask themselves if they REALLY need to do everything (and the very act of asking that question usually means "no"), and then decide on a subset of features they can settle on, and a cost.
To a degree people may also buy because they feel something is better supported, or more "hip", or has better TV commercials, or a bunch of other reasons. The iPod dominating over other cheaper music players was partly because of that. But the other thing the iPod had was an ecosystem--an app and a backing store to download music (and later videos) conveniently. And that helped sell the device (and still does).
This is where the "Good Enough" of the Fire comes in. Its good the roots of a pretty powerful content ecosystem too. People who were happy before now just using an iPod, who hadn't leaped to the iPad, will notice this, because its backed by another company these people already trust. So its finally a competitor for Apple in that sense, even if its not really taking the same customers. It will take the low end, and Apple will continue with the high end. Whether you like it or not.