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Bring your own device

Moderated by Lawrence Dignan | October 17, 2011, 7:00am PT

Summary: Is Bring Your Own Device only a great idea until you try to manage it? Ken Hess and Heather Clancy each make their case in this week's debate.

Ken Hess
Reality
or
Pipe Dream
Heather Clancy
Best Argument: Reality
34%
66%
Audience Favored: Pipe Dream (66%)
List of Events:

Opening Statements

It's a smart and easy transition

Ken Hess: Almost everyone owns an advanced phone and a laptop, netbook or tablet, so why not allow employees to use those devices in corporate work environments? Bring your own device is a new strategy being used by or considered by corporate IT departments. It allows employees to use devices with which they're comfortable and at a lower overall expense to the employee's company. It's an intelligent change in the corporate landscape to lower the costs associated with acquiring, deploying and maintaining devices, to reduce the number of required support personnel, and to decrease the possibility of  single vendor lock-in.

The transition from home user device to corporate user device is an easy one through the use of VPNs, corporate-sponsored anti-virus software and agent-based security compliance. User devices and corporate data will remain secure and stable. And, setting up a user's device a simple matter by using "client pull" automated setup scripts.

It's a management nightmare

Heather Clancy: There is one really good reason not to let employees use their own smartphone, notebook or tablet at work: It is a management nightmare.

For starters, there are inherent security and regulatory compliance risks. Even if you mandate certain products or technologies people can bring and use, it will be next to impossible to make sure everyone keeps their machines updated with the proper OS and application patches. Unless you have control. 

Don’t expect to save money, either. Many businesses supporting BYOD expect employees to buy and support devices on their own dime. But infrastructure and security policies need to be rock-solid behind that. This takes investment and new IT management policies. Is your organization ready?

Be honest: Do you want someone telling you what you can and cannot do with your personal technology? BYOD seems like a great idea for productivity, until you try manage it.
 

The Rebuttal

Great Debate Moderator

BYOD is hot hot hot
We're coming to you from the Gartner Symposium in Orlando and everyone is talking about BYOD. No one knows what to do about it but still. Forrester Research figures that the next 12 to 18 months will bring a sea change in client computing strategies. Consumerization will be front and center. What are the benefits to bring your own device as a policy?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
Yes, BYOD is hot hot hot
The cost benefits are obvious. Users can purchase the device that fits their working style and budget without the corporate "beat to fit, paint to match" standard. Often a company-wide device mandate doesn't account for individual differences. BYOD also forces the user to care for their devices. Corporate-owned devices typically experience abuse and neglect that individually-owned devices don't. The cost savings for replacement, maintenance and repair will be significant.
So, the primary benefit is cost savings for the company. For the employee, the benefit is having a single device that works for personal use as well as for the employer. It's really the best of both worlds for everyone.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Faster upgrade cycles, more engaged users
I think you'll see a redefinition of the whole concept of upgrade cycles. Forget, three to five years. Smartphones are turned over every two years, because of carrier contracts. That means employees will have new features more quickly. Think about the evolution of Skype. It started out as a consumer service, but small businesses quickly figured out it was a way to save money.

I don't suggest that employees shouldn't have a say in what device they should use for work purposes. If they did have a say, they would probably use the devices more. Companies need to be much more creative and mobile than they are, but they should stop short of letting employees own those devices. That's where things get very gray, which means it will become a management nightmare. And that's why 69 percent of IT leaders in a recent study don't allow employees to buy their own equipment for work and only 24 percent do.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

What are the hurdles and gotchas to bring your own device?
And how do we overcome hurdles?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
Jumping the hurdles
There are so many devices and operating systems available from which to choose. However, the user should be held responsible for maintaining compatibility with company standards. The employer will no doubt have to draft a set of requirements for user-owned devices for use within corporate walls. User devices will have to enable the employee to do his job without restriction.
Alternatively, companies might have to adopt new standards to accomodate the more popular devices such as those from Apple. Companies that have historically had Windows-only environment, will have to explore a broader range of possibilities.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Support is the hurdle, and management is the answer
For me, the big hurdle is the support implications.

How do you keep applications updated? Who owns the software applications that are distributed to that mobile device? How do you wipe the device of corporate data when a person leaves? How do you ensure that the technology is destroyed from a data security and environmental perspective at the end of life? How much can this person use the device for personal purposes? What percentage of the hard drive can be devoted to personal data? How do you partition e-mail or social media activity?

Another hurdle is software license management. It is one thing to own the hardware, but how will the company keep an inventory of the applications on those devices. You might need to consider the concept of building some sort of app store within your organization to manage these issues.

There is also a human resources gotcha that you need to think about: are you going to create a class system of haves and have nots? Seriously, is your organization going to let everyone bring their own technology, when some roles don't necessarily call for it?

The only way around this is really close management.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

What about the cool factor?
I saw a study today arguing that employees that bring their own devices are happier and more productive. BYOD may also put the IT department in a positive light. Does that count for anything? Why or why not?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
BYOD = COOL
I think that in the beginning of the process, it will. After the honeymoon period, productivity will go back to normal. But, a productivity boost isn't really a good reason to do BYOD. It's a tertiary one at best. You'd need a better incentive than using your own device to boost productivity long term.
I do believe that having your own device makes you happier. And, employee satisfaction counts for a lot. People who are happy are more productive and less likely to cause security breaches or to become disloyal. And, anything that an IT department does to unchain its users will put it in a positive light. IT types have restricted users too much in the past.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Choice, not ownership, is the answer
I do agree that people who have had a choice in picking the device they are using will be more happy using that device. They will be more comfortable with the features. It will "fit" them better. If you told me that I had to use a Windows system or give up my iPhone for an Android, I would tear my hair out for weeks trying to get used to the interface.

There is a very real advantage to watching the devices that employees want to use -- smartphones, tablets, etc. -- and then figuring out how to make those devices fit in the work setting. IT gets exposed to features and applications they might not have considered.

I do think IT looks more "human" if they let people choose the devices they use. The ownership factor is the sticking point. Once IT has to step in to control someone's personal device, that is problematic.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

The security issue
Security is allegedly a big issue for the bring your own device to work. Is security a real concern or just a red herring?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
A Crimson Herring
Security is a great excuse for "jailing" users into a particular set of circumstances that include accepted operating systems and devices. It's the one buzzword that's used because it has no defense. If a C-level executive states that the company uses Brand X due to security, everyone walks away disappointed but with the assumption that the executive's minions have done due diligence in making the decision.
Operating system and device security are rarely the real issue in the decision-making process. If it were, the computing landscape would look much different than it currently does.
Plus there are new advances in mobile hypervisor technology that will allow you to have a corporate profile and a personal profile on your tablet or phone. The same could be done for laptop-type computers too.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Not a red herring
You need security regardless of who owns the device, period. But who is responsible for making sure security is there under BYOD? Unless you specify otherwise, it will be your IT organization.

I have discussed this issue with healthcare IT professionals. Many doctors are intrigued by consumer tablets, because it lets them be available to patients. But federal laws dictate very specifically how that data is accessed. Some healthcare organizations have gotten around this by making sure tablets use virtual client software to ensure data isn't downloaded to the device. Others have been so worried about this issue, and with ongoing management implications, that they have bought the devices themselves to give to their doctors.

Mobile malware and antivirus software packages exist, but they haven't been widely used. If you allow people to bring their own mobile device, that needs to change.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

Platform survivor time
On the mobile front, enterprises are supporting three smartphone platforms---BlackBerry, iOS and Android. Will there be a new entrant and what platform is most likely to be voted off enterprise island?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
So long, Blackberry and thanks for all the outages.
The significant player missing from the list is Windows Mobile. Windows-based phones have the advantage of built-in compatibility with Microsoft-only shops. They have familiar Windows applications (Internet Explorer, Mobile Office, Outlook) and historic corporate buy-in. Microsoft has done well in the corporate space and I expect that trend to continue.

There won't be any new entrants into the field--there's just no room for another platform. There are too many options right now and the one that is mostly likely to disappear is Blackberry. The Blackberry just won't make the cut in the future. It's really the "odd man out" and if you add in the outages, it's a fading player. Companies will drop support for it in favor of the more user-friendly and ubiquitous iOS. Windows Mobile is likely to take a distant second with Android falling to a geek-only third.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
You can't discount Windows mobile platforms
People will bring their own Windows mobile devices because of the comfort and compatibility factor. In any case, no one will be voted off the island in BYOD, because you will always have someone who wants that random platform or who doesn't want to give up a legacy device. The only way someone will be voted off is if IT decides a device isn't appropriate. In which case, someone will be unhappy. BlackBerry is on the edge, which is ironic because it has the most inherent enterprise security built in. At least in theory.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

Windows?
So you both think Windows will get traction in the BYOD and enterprise world. Based on what exactly? Can Microsoft be a consumerization player?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
Enterprises do Windows
Microsoft is built for consumerization. They aren't as clever as Apple in that realm but so many enterprises are Microsoft-heavy and that is a hard hand to beat. Currently, most companies would rather deal with Microsoft technology because they feel that it's reliable, compatible and familiar. Plus it puts all devices into a single platform bag that corporate execs are comfortable with.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Yes, Windows
People use what they are comfortable using. I am not a Windows fan, because I am an Apple fan-girl. But I am realistic. If I can pick up something and use it quickly and it fits with my existing stuff, I am more inclined to use it. If my kids are using Windows in school, I'm going to use it. Once you bring the "work" factor into the choice of a consumer device, you cannot discount Windows.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

What's the role for mobile data management here?
There are a bevy of vendors arguing that you forget about the device and focus on the data that goes on them. Agree, disagree? Where's the personal/work line?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
Cloud with a chance of mobility
I agree. But, a lot of people still don't trust the Cloud and if you ignore the device and focus on the data, that has to mean Cloud. If you don't save any data on the device, then security becomes a Cloud issue.
This was once the dream of device independent thinkers and spawned things like Chromium--the "do everything in a browser" concept OS.
Device independence is a good thing and it really shouldn't matter how you get there. If you don't care which device someone uses, there is no personal/work line to be drawn because no data stays on the device.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Mobile device management is mandatory
The only way to make BYOD work is to have a strong mobile device management strategy, which means your organization needs to invest in one. (Read, spend money.) Your organization will need to close manage application licenses, patch distribution and access control parameters. And, for that matter, wireless communications expenses. This is a really relevant and exciting new area of software. As for the work/personal line, I think the easiest way to get around that is by not allowing any corporate data to be stored locally. That would help keep the "lives" separate.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

Bring your own laptop
Do you anticipate that the bring your own movement will be as strong for laptops? Why or why not?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
Got Lap?
A lot of people assume that the BYOD computing platform will be focused on tablets or smart phones but I expect that the laptop movement to be very strong for years to come. New laptop computers are inexpensive, lightweight and powerful. It's a versatile platform. And, for laptops, there are fewer choices than for phones. Basically you have Linux, Windows and Apple in that space. Laptops also have several form factors from which to choose as well. The range goes from netbooks to devices like the Macbook Air to the Macbook Pro and standard PC-based laptops. You can buy whatever computing power you require from low-end, Atom-based netbooks to multi-core, gaming-grade systems. There's something for every requirement and budget all packaged into a carry-around form factor.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
No way will it be as strong for notebooks
For starters, it is a matter of expense. If I am personally paying $2,000 to $3,000 for a seriously sweet notebook, I'm not going to want to let someone tell me how I can use it. And, let's be serious, in order for me to use that notebook for business purposes, I will need to let someone tell me how I can or cannot use it.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

And how about those iPads and tablets
Laptops and smartphones are one thing. How much more complexity will tablets bring to the BYOD movement?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
The tablet X factor
For some reason, IT departments fear the tablet. There's no reason for this fear. As I stated earlier, mobile devices will no doubt rely on a) The Cloud for data storage and b) Mobile hypervisors for security partitioning. Both of those remove any complexity forged in the minds of IT types.
Tablets bring true mobility to the user and to the enterprise. If you really think about it, tablets remove much of the complexity.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Tablets = Client virtualization
The BYOD argument got a lot louder when consumer tablets emerged, because of the ease-of-use features we have already mentioned and the more reasonable screen size for displaying data. Who wants to squint at a smartphone all day when trying to access a Web application? The problem is in order to use tablets securely in a business setting -- healthcare is prime example -- you need to apply client virtualization software. Ironically, that circumvents the interface that interested BYOD users in the first place.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

Show me the subsidies!
Will companies offer subsidies for personal gear used for work? I've seen this idea floated a few times, but I'm still waiting for the subsidies on my laptop and smartphone. Hell, here at CBS I'm just waiting for a laptop refresh without Windows 3.1 (half kidding but not really)
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
The check is in the mail.
There are companies that do this already and more will join the fray as this trend continues. Until the early adopters report on their successes with the idea, expect uptake to lag a bit for the "wait and see" majority. Companies who want to lower costs will offer subsidies to users to choose their own devices. They'll find that it's less expensive to offer a one-time subsidy than to take on the ongoing responsibility and continuous expense of maintaining those systems. Yours might not have arrived at the decision to do so yet but it will.
But, if your a freelancer, don't expect any subsidy. From an IRS perspective, you have to supply your own tools to be considered a contract employee.
On a related note, I have the feeling that BYOD is also the first step in the trend to dump employees in favor of contract labor.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Huh, you want me to pay taxes on a machine I use for work?
This becomes an issue of tax law. Is that money that you are giving me to buy my notebook or smartphone or tablet going to be considered income and will I have to pay taxes on it? I have a hard time believing employees will go for this scenario, especially after several years of a really rough economy in which many raises were deferred and personal incomes have shrunk.

And if the company is still paying for these systems, I fail to see the point of why it should allow employees to own them in the first place.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream

Great Debate Moderator

Mr. Hess, you're captain optimistic. Last question.
Will we ever get to the point where all enterprises will be bring your own devices? What class of workers will value BYOD the most?
Larry Dignan 18th Oct
BYOD
Eventually, the cost effectiveness of the decision to go BYOD will be too attractive to pass up. It might take some companies several years to catch onto the idea but they all will.
I don't think there will be a purposeful class separation for BYOD. I do believe, however, that company IT departments will probably limit the device list to a select few. They might also limit the operating system that can be used on laptops. For example, only laptops equipped with Ubuntu 11.04 or higher, Windows 7 Professional or higher and Mac OS X Lion or higher will be supported. Those restrictions placed on allowed devices might exclude some workers due to the skills required to install the required software or the financial outlay associated with purchasing the software and hiring a third party to perform the necessary changes.
khess 18th Oct I'm for Reality
No way, no how
I just don't see this happening, unless your organization wants to move completely to a cloud-based model where EVERY bit of data is kept off client devices. There are departments where this would be too challenging from a security standpoint, such as legal departments or human resources. In other instances, the systems will be just too specialized and too expensive for companies to make the case that their employees should pay for them. I'm thinking about technologies such as engineering design workstations or systems being used to manage a manufacturing production line.
Heather Clancy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
Ends in:
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Closing Statements

BYOD is an inevitable reality

Ken Hess

Companies must decrease overhead costs without sacrificing product and service quality. There's a tremendous cost layout made for end user devices, for software, and for support. One significant way to lower costs is to allow employees to bring their own devices (laptops, smart phones, tablets) to work and use them.

Mobile provisioning and management technologies which include carrier-supported mobile hypervisors will be as disruptive to devices as VMWare has been to the data center. Once the technologies become widely available, the deployments will follow because at the end of the day, enterprises are cheap and any cost-saving technology is going to be embraced. In fact, VMware and Verizon announced yesterday that they're teaming up on mobile virtualization technology to solve this problem for enterprises.

Win, lose or draw on the debate, BYOD is an inevitable reality.

Choose - not bring - your own device

Heather Clancy

Businesses should absolutely realize productivity benefits by outfitting their employees with the latest mobile technologies, including smartphones, tablets and notebooks. It makes sense for workers to have a say in selecting those products, because then they are more likely to use them.

Plus, your IT team might be turned on to features and applications that it might not otherwise have considered as a “business” application. But your organization is asking for a support and management nightmare, if it chooses to support every mobile technology owned by workers.

Security is just the tip of the iceberg. You’ll need to define policies for technical support, for software patch updates, for application distribution – pretty much everything your team is already responsible for doing. So, honestly, what is the
point of ceding ownership?

Rather than “bring your own device,” it should be “choose your own device.” That way, your IT organization will still have control.

Winner: Ken Hess

Lawrence Dignan

While Heather highlighted all the issues with bring your own device schemes, Ken had technologies that could cure those ills. The argument was very close, but in the end I went with Ken. BYOD will happen and it's quite possible that IT will have no choice but to play along.

More from "The Great Debate"

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0 Votes
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
antonio.vacas 17th Oct I'm Undecided
the only way to manage BYOD is to pusblish a catalog of possible devices that the company could manage, I'm not sure there is any platform capable ot manage BYOD, maybe Afaria from SAP?

The risk is high and maybe we could have a try by making a copy of some leasing/renting models used in company cars. When you have a car leased by your company you can select some models without no cost and if you want something better pay an extra. Int is case for the employee it would be cheaper and for the company it would be easier to control all these devices.

It's true that a company can only control a limited catalog of products but it's a way to be in the middle, cause no one want to carry two mobiles or an personal tablet and a company laptop as me wink
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
bknabe@... 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@antonio.vacas I will gladly carry two devices. I would much rather carry a second phone that have work calls on my personal line. I already carry two laptops, and that's the way I prefer it.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
fabioq@... 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
@bknabe@...
I personally carry one laptop and one phone, however my company allows me to get any phone on my dime, but they pay for the service, so I can swap my to whatever phone strikes my fancy. As far as the laptop I have laptop that makes it easy to swap out the hard drive, so I have a "work" hard drive that includes all the apps I use at work and all the security including active directory logins. And when I go home I shut it down and swap to my "home" hard drive without the restrictions of work. I keep the spare (work or home) drive in an an USB external case, so in case I just need files from either drive I can just can just plug it in. The swap operation takes about two minutes and that includes shut down and start up of the OS.
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One size doesn't fit all, but a limited set of options can.
warren_woods@... 18th Oct I'm Undecided
I've read all the feedback here and have two points to make. 1. Some seem to think this is an all or nothing decision and today it is not. We do this for consultants today and seeing our capabilities increase I can see a day that BYOD will work for employees as well. This is happening today with smartphones, but as several have noted, we only support a couple with iOS and BB for secure access to this data. BB is not BYOD as it does not support that model at all. iOS though, as long as not jailbroken, is easy to segment corporate data from personal and to ensure home backup is encrypted and secured. These models do not satisfy all users but are very controlled for IT. 2. However, beyond smartphones and tablets to PC is quite a different story. We are also doing this with vendors and some trials with employees, but there are difficulties with this as many have identified. The point I wanted to add is that all VDI are not created equal. I've participated in our pilots of VDI and another local JVM based image called MOKA5. The issues with VDI have been pointed out by several with specific use cases, however, MOKA5, or similar, can address some of this from image control, remote/disconnected use, and latency sensitivity VDI can experience. Hope this helps those considering this concept.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
MobileAdmin 20th Oct I'm Undecided
@warren_woods@...

Great comment.

I just want to note that we use Blackberry Server Express for out BYOD Blackberry users and with the Balance policy policies it works very nicely, even nicer is the server, CAL are 100% free.

Balance allows you to pull back any data that is tagged as corporate so when employees leave you only need to pull back this data. No other solution is as clean at the moment.
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We did it, we're dropping it
MobileAdmin 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
After providing a BYOT program for the past year we will likely be shutting it down soon.

Employee feedback the past few months the main concerns:

1. Lack of employee interest (our program is not subsidized)
2. Increased employee cost (international data usage)
3. Ongoing concerns over personal "space" and needing to adhere to corporate security
4. Limited to salary employees (bulk of mobile users are hourly / contractor)
5. Unable to use corporate WiFi due to long standing security policy
6. Not able to support every device users want
7. Remote erase /password enforcement
8. Need for extended warrenty (laptops)
9. No loaner if laptop / tablet breaks

At the end of this, it was a wash cost wise. Users want to use their own tech, but have no security and corporate to foot the whole bill. In that case we might as well stay corporate liable.

Employees who value separation of work / personal usage need to suck it up and carry two devices or accept restrictions. show more show less
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
miralles 13th Feb I'm for Reality
@MobileAdmin

Well, if you set it up with all the restrictions you mention in your message, no wonder it didn't work out. It looks like you/your company missed an opportunity...
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
MobileAdmin 13th Feb I'm Undecided
@miralles

Blame our HR / Law / Compliance departments who made the BYOD policy.

BYOD's main issues are related to compensation, compliance and privacy. The technology portion of it is very easy to enable.
0 Votes
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Looks like lose/lose to me
bknabe@... Updated - 17th Oct I'm for Reality
The company gets the added cost and risk of protecting equipment essentially outside it's control. The employees get the added stress of avoiding activities that might get them in trouble at work while at home on their personal equipment. This is good for who?

But it's on it's way in our company, like it or not.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tbutton 17th Oct I'm Undecided
Here is a solution that satisfies both. Particularly from a Desktop/Laptop/Tablet standpoint:

Build a corporate VM image with corporate Software rules and force all machines to use it, that way you have a standard. If you have an employee that uses a macbook, fine, they just access your work network through a VM, and sit on public wifi in their normal machine like you would treat a vendor or contractor.

I am a consultant and most customers prefer this method. Its on me to provide a machine, and if I have issues, they just reload the image on whatever I provide,
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
MobileAdmin 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@tbutton

We provided those options (Both Citrix and VM View) and employee overwhelming hated them. While they provide consistency and controls the user experience is not as clean as native device functions. Your basically making your shiny new technology a dumb terminal.

Another downside is this all requires WiFi / internet connectivity. Once out of coverage / weak signal the functionality takes an even larger hit so your basically left with no option.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tiderulz 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@MobileAdmin
rare are the people that are working for a company that are out of any type of internet or Wifi connectivity.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
gr8scott61@... 15th Jan I'm for Reality
@tiderulz you obviously have not been to a largest state with lots of rural areas...
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
ScorpioBlue 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
I think this debate has it backwards. Ken should be the Pipe Dream and Heather should be the reality. Most places won't allow this and they shouldn't. That's why the business supplies it's own phones and it's own computers. Doh.
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Contributr
RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
khess 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@ScorpioBlue

Except that I'm for BYOD. I think it's a great idea.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
FuzzyBunnySlippers 19th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
@ScorpioBlue

You made a very logical and understandable argument. I'm just going to go with the flow of the premise as it stands, though. (IMHO, you are a bit 'more' correct).
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
ScorpioBlue 21st Oct I'm Undecided
@FuzzyBunnySlippers

And what's your point? Beyond the irrelevance?
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we did it
tiderulz 17th Oct I'm for Reality
used Citrix to connect to applications and lock down connection. had no issue whatsoever. Employees were given a stipend to buy their choice of computer with next day tech service. IT only had to support the applications.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
Completely agree with Heather Clancy. At my organization no one brings in their own device. If we didn't assign it to you then its not going on the network. This simplifies things such as device management because you only have one or two devices to support instead of an unlimited number. We can use encryption on the devices too to lock it down for security and regulatory reasons. I simply could not imagine bringing in your own device, it would be a support nightmare.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tiderulz 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@LoverockDavidson_
you dont support it. You support the application. We do it easily, though it does require a NAC, but someone can pop their own system up of the network. our company just wont support the hardware unless it is a corporate system. If not, they are instructed to purchase 24-hr support when they buy their non-corporate system.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
optyk 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
@tiderulz - some enterprises don't have it so easy.... we dropped ALL support for non-corporate devices as supporting the apps ends up at supporting the device - "you need to update the device for this app to function correctly" "I don't know how to do that, but I need this for work!". And the calls from home users who continually fail the security check - system not up to date, security app not up to date (or no security app in the case of many Apple users), no malware scan performed in the last week - you must pass all 3 checks to get onto our network (there is a fourth check if you run Vista or 7 then bitlocker must be on). For real enterprises BYOD is a financial and support nightmare that simply does not deliver on any of its supposed benefits. We were spending more time trying to support users equipment than supporting our own corporate systems - too many devices which don't 'play nicely with others'.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tiderulz 18th Oct I'm for Reality
@optyk
not sure what you mean by "real enterprises". My company is the leader in the industry for what we do. We deal with client data, we are a global company. in-house and remote users.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 18th Oct I'm Undecided
@tiderulz
I wouldn't want to support just the app either. That would mean that app can run on 10 or 20 different devices, therefore having to figure out if the issue is actually with the app or the device and then a lot of research needs to be done on each device to determine that. Still ends up being a support nightmare.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
notme403@... 17th Oct I'm for Reality
Device? That's pretty broad. We allow folks to get email on their phones. They use a company computer at work. They can use a VPN to use remote desktop from a home computer. That's about it. Not a big deal... except for the poor schmo who buys a Blackberry. That's a nogo.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
redhaven 17th Oct I'm Undecided
@notme403@... That seems like a pretty good model to me. Every business is different. Our company allows users to connect their phones and tablets for email and company issued laptops need to be connected to the network via ssl vpn for other out of office computing. That probably takes care of 95% or more of typical users.

If someone needs more than that, it can be provided by the employer.

I am all for personal choice but if I bought a device and gave my IT department control over it, the device would be hobbled so badly in the name of security that it would be unrecognizable.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
Imrhien 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
I think it's unreasonable to assume that employees will own above a certain level of technology. I'm an IT person, but my work laptop is leaps and bounds more powerful than my personally-owned one. Why? I don't really use my own laptop because at home I have a really great Desktop. So I would be losing in a BYOD situation. Further, you must remember that there are PLENTY of people (especially the older generation) that aren't particularly interested in computers and have just an old one at home and no laptop at all.

I think consistency is king for Enterprise.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
rcnystrom9 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
dude, this is such a pipe dream. not much of a debate here.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
QuiMoi 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
I think it's a great idea but until personal devices can be set to Jekyll (personal) and Hyde (work) I don't see how it will work with sufficient security. If it's lost or stolen it needs to be equipped with remote wipe for Hyde ONLY that the business can administer and a separate one for Jekyll that the customer can administer. Basically two separate devices in one housing. Pricey.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
TechMOGogy 17th Oct I'm for Reality
We just launched a BYOD policy/program but it is only for iOS, Droid, WinPhone devices - we use a program control access to email, basically silos it and does not allow it to sync to users home pc etc.
Just launching secure browser for internal websites only.
Everything is encrypted.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
han@... 17th Oct I'm for Reality
I'm undecided. Clearly you cannot just leave everything up to each individual employee; they are hired because they have a job to do, not because they're all IT experts in whatever their chosen technology is. Then try providing support on all the odd-ball devices they show up with.

Still, you can allow bringing in devices *in addition* to having a company provided standard device to fall back on, *IF* you also enforce where people's data (incl. e-mail) can reside and how they access it.

So if a tech-savvy employee wants to bring in a Chromebook: great. But there's no support for it, e-mail is still Exchange (or whatever the company standard is) and all files still go on the company fileserver/sharepoint/cloud/whatever.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
FuzzyBunnySlippers Updated - 19th Oct I'm Undecided
@han@...

"*IF* you also enforce where people's data (incl. e-mail) can reside and how they access it."

So, you've really made a point in the direction of 'pipe-dream' to describe how it could be a reality. How should any IT department go about enforcing such rules on user purchased/owned equipment?

Providing support for those devices may be a small issue compared to user authentication/authorization on such a magnitude of possible user device whims.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
CobraA1 17th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
He** no. No way I'm allowing corporate lockdown junk on my personal device. Not to mention it's a security risk to them. Can you imagine the nightmare of managing all of those devices?

Sorry, not reality. Not even a good idea.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tiderulz 18th Oct I'm Undecided
@CobraA1
our using Citrix and their UAG, we didnt have to lock down personal devices at all. so we dont have to manage them.
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A lot of places have...
seanparsons 18th Oct I'm for Reality
unintentionally supported this for years.

Take the non-profit where I work. The school equipment is generally old and so locked down that you can't install any of the software you need to do your job. Next thing you know, you're bringing in your own laptop to do work and you're syncing your email with your mobile device. Initially, there was some very weak resistance from IT (they knew the schools hardware was lousy) so as school servers got upgraded they started implementing things like Windows remote desktop protocol to connect to the school's official apps and file shares. Today, I am quite happy to use my Linux based netbook while connecting to the school's WiFi and maybe once or twice a month I find an actual need to connect to the Windows server via rdesktop (usually just to upload my lesson plans).

The reality is that this is 'reality' at my work place and it seems to cost IT very little.

-Sean Parsons
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tbar38547 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Our plan is to use virtual desktop technology for remote access through a VPN connection using any device. That provides the data protection we need, which is the bottom line issue in reality.
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Just wait for Windows 8
spaulagain 18th Oct I'm for Reality
The built in client side Hyper-V element of Windows 8 will make this a complete reality
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
dsf3g 18th Oct I'm Undecided
Our corporate policy requires we install and use an app on our personal Android (or iOS) phone, but prohibits us from rooting the phone. That kinda sucks, as far as I'm concerned, because my phone is rooted. I got around the issue by installing the app on my Android tablet (which is not rooted and which I have no interest in rooting) and tethering to my phone as needed. Still, I'm not that happy with the organization telling me how I can use a phone I bought with my own cash and whose cell plan I pay for myself.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
SuperComputerGuru 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Bring your own device is stupid. If a company needs you to do work, it needs to purchase the equipment (unless you are a consultant). Why on earth would an employee want to use his own equipment for work? And why would a corporation want to take the security risks associated with a users device?
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In theory, anything can work. In practice,
HypnoToad72 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
it becomes "too costly".

Especially the nanosecond security issues come up and, trust me, they will. And if you want your personal device on their network, you'd better comply in giving away control.

And why use your own device? It's their network and their job they want you to do. Let them spend for the gear THEY want to manage. Keep the line between personal and company gear. Eliminating it will ultimately make it all corporate, with your personal freedom to use your gear being diminished.

"Pipe dream" is the answer.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
CimarronB 18th Oct I'm for Reality
BYOD can work with reasonable corporate policies and the ability to provide a (private) App Catalog, and apps that can be surgically removed if the employee or contractor leaves.

The technology is here today with several Mobile Application Management solutions.

Clearly, there are some environments (e.g., highly regulated or truly government "Secret" situations) where this may not work.

But really, the idea of carrying around two phones is so last year.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
MobileAdmin 18th Oct I'm Undecided
@CimarronB

Actually if you value your privacy I strongly recommend a seperate device for your personal usage. We have had users already be suspended and one terminated due to conduct against the BYOD policy.

If my employer deems I need a mobile device, they should provide it.
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Rip off
wkulecz 18th Oct I'm Undecided
Its a rip off. Unless you are a contractor your employer is obligated to supply what you need to do your job.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tiderulz 19th Oct I'm Undecided
@wkulecz
but what if the company was base-lined on Windows devices and you are a graphic designer that feels more comfortable on a Mac. And while they will give you a windows laptop, they will let you use your Mac for your work if you want? what then?
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why pipe dream, and a possible middle solution
opcom 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
As an employee, I would never allow corporate to have anything but "supplicant" access to my personal notebook for simple reasons. Besides the necessary AV and firewall, they would think they own it and attempt to install all kinds of additional paranoid, supervisory, controlling, disk encrypting software - and that could not be permitted because these kinds of things are very time-consuming to get rid of once installed.

I will always use the company notebook for work and I am glad to have it. They can do what they want with the notebook of theirs that they have assigned to me, the extra paranoid stuff they load works with the models they have chosen, the machine is a higher throughput unit than I would buy for myself, and I can do my work on it without any problems. I am not wearing out my own PC, and they will fix their own machine if it breaks, but probably not mine.

I say keep work and personal PC and phones separate in most cases. That has worked for me for 15 years. There are also IRS issues I think, as to what exactly a computer is used for and who may deduct the cost of it. An employee should not be asked to regularly use his/her own resources for work tasks unless the compensation/cost situation is extremely clear.

As for control, as a hardware application enginer, the work I do requires complete control and admin access because I need to load and remove sopftware and change configurations in the notebook, connecting its ports to unusual circuits in the lab and when traveling. Even so I always make sure the notebook is being updated by, receptive to, the things IT is pushing, etc. That is a responsibility.

That may be the missing piece, between one's own authority on one's own notebook, and the privlege level necessary to use the corporate notebook in a productive manner on an individual basis.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
Skippy99 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
The BYOD fad is a way for companies to transfer cost and risk to employees. As an employee I don't want either. I want my employeer to provide the tools I need for my job, their maintenance and management. This is a "benefit" to employees only from the company's point of view.
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YMMV
Solenoid 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
Both sides have legitimate points, and it spells out the differences of applicability. Put simply, it's not for every business. Your Mileage May Vary. Let the needs determine the means.

Personally, I'm for leaving the toys for playtime, and issuing tools to work with. That may not work as well for you.
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What about Integration?
GooBoy 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
Windows based corporate networks that adhere to a standard can integrate the hardware and OS right into the network architecture. This isn't possible for BYOD, so those devices lose out on functionality that integrated corporate devices provide. This integration is key because there are several applications that are not cloud ready (and until we have 10 Gb connections everywhere, never will be) and work best in a tightly integrated seamless environment. BYODs break that integration and introduce seams, reducing efficiencies.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
MrElectrifyer 18th Oct I'm for Pipe Dream
I agree with Heather Clancy, it will be a management nightmare unless of course the devices are not allowed to access the corporate network, that's how it is at my work wink

Lets face it, majority of the people on this planet are tech noobs who don't even have a clue of what Windows Update is (I've met several sad ) and have never had the thought of updating their computer. With crime thirsty hackers growing fast in population today, having such user's device connected to your corporate network puts you and your classified data at big risk shocked
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
jrrgear 18th Oct I'm for Reality
We have sold mobility solutions for some time now, and have seen successes and failures with BYOT. Reality is the deciding factor is how well structured the IT department is, and how they handle the users.

This is the first time we have seen top down demand for this type of freedom; the executive management are often the first to want to use their iPhones and iPads in lieu of the corporate issued Blackberry or Nokia device. I agree securing a user's personal notebook computer or home desktop machine is very difficult, but the IOS and Droids are actually easier to secure. One client we have has set limits by using Citrix to access corporate resources much as "tiderulz" opined earlier, and some limit the ability to store content locally. The real issue is how productive will the employee be with technology forced on them (not!) as opposed to technology they want to use, and are comfortable using. We have seen schools in Texas do a 180 this year; encouraging students to BYOT in all forms and mandating teachers provide content for those devices as opposed to banning use during school hours. Quizzes and polls are administered via IM, and content is made available for viewing on tablets and smartphones. For those students without a device of their own, the school has a pool of loaners. All on a secure network within the school building. Early reports are that both the students and the teachers are liking the change.
Security is good now and improving for this ecosystem. Management is also improving. I had the misfortune to leave my iPad on a plane, and wiped it remotely within 15 minutes of discovering the loss. No corporate documents were stored in the device, and all my credentials were erased in the wipe process. A painful lesson, but security was not the issue, just loss of a copy of my music library.
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RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
tremp 18th Oct I'm for Reality
Companies have already been operating under this model for sometime. Many companies alow the use of personal phones for business communications! This is a BYOD model. Do not let a person with narrow vision prohibit the change needed to move a business ahead. Define the need, detail the devices allowed, establish a policy for use and misuse, govern and manage, enforce and punish violators. This has been done over and over again with each new technology swing. Even radios in cars at one time was considered to dangerous to allow.

tremp
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NICE
eredar 14th May I'm Undecided
If it's lost or stolen it needs to be equipped with remote wipe for Hyde ONLY that the business can administer and a separate one for Jekyll that the customer can administer. http://briquetting-machine.wikispaces.com/Beneficial+BBQ+Charcoal+Briquetting+Machine

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  • NICE
    If it's lost or stolen it needs to be equipped with remote wipe for Hyde ONLY that the business can administer and a separate one for Jekyll that the customer can administer. http://briquetting-machine.wikispaces.com/Beneficial+BBQ+Charcoal+Briquetting+Machine
    eredar 14th May
    I'm Undecided
  • RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
    @miralles

    Blame our HR / Law / Compliance departments who made the BYOD policy.

    BYOD's main issues are related to compensation, compliance and privacy. The technology portion of it is very easy to enable.
    MobileAdmin 13th Feb
    I'm Undecided
  • RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
    @MobileAdmin

    Well, if you set it up with all the restrictions you mention in your message, no wonder it didn't work out. It looks like you/your company missed an opportunity...
    miralles 13th Feb
    I'm for Reality
  • RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
    Ever-cheaper devices means lower costs for employers to supply the needed equipment. The cost of security and legal issues from not having the same level of control over devices will far outweigh hardware costs. And that's not even considering the personal property and privacy rights issues. No way this becomes reality.
    techboy_z 24th Jan
    I'm for Pipe Dream
  • RE: Great Debate: Bring your own device
    @tiderulz you obviously have not been to a largest state with lots of rural areas...
    gr8scott61@... 15th Jan
    I'm for Reality
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