Jason Perlow
Yes, clicks rule
or
No, bricks live
David Gewirtz
Best Argument:
Yes, clicks rule
Audience Favored:
No, bricks live (70%)
List of Events:
Opening Statements
Brick and mortar will be largely a cultural anachronism
Jason Perlow: As much as it bothers me to say it, clicks are absolutely killing bricks. No, it won't happen overnight in some kind of apocalyptic mass extinction event -- but anywhere between ten and fifteen years from now, the makeup of what we call "brick and mortar" today will be largely a cultural anachronism.
Will Brick and Mortar disappear entirely? No. We'll always need certain types of walk-in retail, and some types of businesses will be more resistant than others. Just like the Crocodilians survived the big 'ol asteroid 65 million years ago, we'll still need places like Walgreens and maybe even Target or Wal-Mart.
But ten years hence retail footprint will be a shadow of its former self at best, and heavy competition from online will force only the strongest and most customer-oriented brick and mortar businesses to survive, with the inevitable consolidation of some of the largest businesses to follow.
The dinosaurs didn't go extinct overnight. And there are reptiles that still live today that aren't much different than ones that lived in the Cretaceous. Similarly, the most robust brick and mortars will still be with us ten or twenty years from now. But the weak or unadaptable will not survive.
Brick-and-mortar shopping spirit will remain alive and well
David Gewirtz: No, e-commerce is not killing brick-and-mortar. Changing business models are hurting some retailers, while others are thriving.
This is not new. For more than a century, retailers have had to change with the times or lose their customer base. Whether it was the big fight in the early and mid-20th century against chain stores (there was actual legislation), or the cries in the later 20th century against so-called Big Box stores and WalMart, or the backlash against online music distribution and Amazon-like e-commerce, there's always been change and pushback by those threatened by change.
As long as there are pepper-sprayin' mamas willing to dive head first into crowds of WalMart shoppers in order to score cheap XBox 360s, the full-contact, hands-on, brick-and-mortar shopping spirit will remain alive and well.
The Rebuttal
Closing Statements
It's merely a question of when
Jason Perlow
It's not a question of "will" retail Brick and Mortar die, but "when". For certain types of businesses, it will happen faster than others.
Only the biggest and most powerful and most efficient retailers -- such as Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, and Costco --
will survive the culling. So in the future there may not be as much choice for comparison shopping in Brick and Mortar, especially if these powerful chains, or companies like Amazon, end up owning much of the electronic shopping real estate as well, or end up controlling the channel for smaller distributors of specialty goods.
For durable goods with lots of reviews, which are not highly specialized and aren't as susceptible to the sensual experience in order to make a convincing buy, customers are going to move to online sales much sooner rather than later.
All of this depends how quickly the enabling technologies mature and how much they cost. Technology is certainly moving extremely fast in this area and it is difficult to predict when this retail transformation to a largely online-based model is going to occur.
For the middle class it will very likely happen a lot faster than for the working class, since they will easier be able to afford the enabling technology. But eventually, everyone will prefer to shop online.
Change is always in the air
David Gewirtz
There's no doubt that change is in the air. Change is always in the air. That means that some retailers will go out of business, some will flourish, and we'll even see new players enter the market.
The online commerce world is tapping into the needs of consumers, but it, too, is at risk. For example, while UPS and FedEx can shoulder much of the delivery burden, so too must the very beleaguered US Postal Service. While huge sellers like Amazon can shoulder increases in shipping costs, most small e-commerce vendors can't.
And there's the rub. Even in e-commerce, there's a shake-out. Free shipping programs like Amazon Prime effectively sideline many smaller sellers, or send them into the somewhat unreliable arms of "fulfilled by Amazon."
There are good and timeless reasons to shop retail, from the need for goods today, to the desire to handle, see, and touch a product, to the desire to validate that what you're buying is what is actually being represented as for sale, to validating quality personally, to the inability to reliably get packages, to the desire to not spend on shipping, to the difficulty in surviving the individual package shipping process, to the increasing problem of poorly packed products -- and so on.
Jason is right that clicks will grow. I, personally, buy far more online than in person. But I'm relatively affluent, and when I don't want to go into a store, my wife is willing to put up with the crowds and lines.
I do have to caution that most affluent and even moderately affluent people have no real picture of what the poor in America are dealing with. The more we integrate e-commerce into our daily lives, the more we leave those people behind.
If China can push many of its formerly impoverished citizens into the middle class, so can we. And once we do, they, too, can shop at retailers like WalMart and Target, buy from Amazon and Apple, and bring pepper spray to an Xbox sale.
It's the circle of life and it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Perlow wins
Lawrence Dignan
This debate was lopsided in Jason Perlow's favor. I went into the debate skeptical that e-commerce would trump physical retail, but Perlow almost convinced me. Jason is the winner hands down given his solid arguments for his side.
In partnership with Ricoh Brick-and-mortar shopping spirit will remain alive and well
David Gewirtz: No, e-commerce is not killing brick-and-mortar. Changing business models are hurting some retailers, while others are thriving.
This is not new. For more than a century, retailers have had to change with the times or lose their customer base. Whether it was the big fight in the early and mid-20th century against chain stores (there was actual legislation), or the cries in the later 20th century against so-called Big Box stores and WalMart, or the backlash against online music distribution and Amazon-like e-commerce, there's always been change and pushback by those threatened by change.
As long as there are pepper-sprayin' mamas willing to dive head first into crowds of WalMart shoppers in order to score cheap XBox 360s, the full-contact, hands-on, brick-and-mortar shopping spirit will remain alive and well.
More from "The Great Debate"
For those who want things now instead of waiting for shipping, the bricks will always rule.
@dch48 I agree with that. If my fridge, TV or any other electronic equipment breaks - I have no time to wait 3-5 days for any shipment.
Additionally, that are things that I want to see inspect, check the box and content, maybe check how it works and that can't be done online.
Brick and mortal can win me over with sales, price drops, etc - everything they sell is made in china and the wholesale price is less than 50% of MSRP, I am sure. If the store can drop the price by 50-60% for Thanksgiving, they have a lot of room to play with.
Fact - my husband's employer makes a product that is sold to Walmart for xx and Walmart sells that product 5x the wholesale price.
Online stores will win as long as their selling price plus shipping and plus tax is lower than brick and mortal store - we all know that that is a very common thing and has nothing to do with "sales tax savings" like some of comments suggested. If I can buy something for $50 plus tax in local store or buy it online for $30 including shipping - sales tax has nothing to do with it. It is simple rip off by a local store.
Additionally, that are things that I want to see inspect, check the box and content, maybe check how it works and that can't be done online.
Brick and mortal can win me over with sales, price drops, etc - everything they sell is made in china and the wholesale price is less than 50% of MSRP, I am sure. If the store can drop the price by 50-60% for Thanksgiving, they have a lot of room to play with.
Fact - my husband's employer makes a product that is sold to Walmart for xx and Walmart sells that product 5x the wholesale price.
Online stores will win as long as their selling price plus shipping and plus tax is lower than brick and mortal store - we all know that that is a very common thing and has nothing to do with "sales tax savings" like some of comments suggested. If I can buy something for $50 plus tax in local store or buy it online for $30 including shipping - sales tax has nothing to do with it. It is simple rip off by a local store.
@dch48
I do the majority of my comparison shopping at brick and mortar stores - then shop online and compare all for the best price, best warranty, AND the best return policy (some stores have gotten really bad).
This is from a person who does the majority of my shopping online (outside fo food staples)........
Once I find what, it is all about the money.
I do the majority of my comparison shopping at brick and mortar stores - then shop online and compare all for the best price, best warranty, AND the best return policy (some stores have gotten really bad).
This is from a person who does the majority of my shopping online (outside fo food staples)........
Once I find what, it is all about the money.
If I'm buying something like a CPU or motherboard, then I'm making my selection based on reviews, benchmarks, the manufacturer's reputation etc and online is fine. But for things like shoes or clothing I want to actually see the item first and try it on.
Even with things like computer components there is room for both. A great example is Mircocenter. If you are fortunate enough to live near one you know that on many items they equal or beat the top online stores.
But....lets not forget the sales tax boogy man. Right now, If I go to my local Microcenter, I'm gong to have to pay sales tax. But if I order online, I don't (usually) pay sales tax but do often (but not always) pay shipping charges. If certain politicians win out and we have to start paying sales tax online too, then online stores are going to be faced with both shipping costs and sales tax too. This may change the overall balance.
Even with things like computer components there is room for both. A great example is Mircocenter. If you are fortunate enough to live near one you know that on many items they equal or beat the top online stores.
But....lets not forget the sales tax boogy man. Right now, If I go to my local Microcenter, I'm gong to have to pay sales tax. But if I order online, I don't (usually) pay sales tax but do often (but not always) pay shipping charges. If certain politicians win out and we have to start paying sales tax online too, then online stores are going to be faced with both shipping costs and sales tax too. This may change the overall balance.
@cornpie Just to be clear...the only reason politicians are pushing to force online retailers to collect tax is because consumers have been using online shopping to avoid sales tax--something they can't do at a brick and mortar shop. And by "avoid" I mean consumers are not paying sales tax directly to their State as they are required to do for any qualifying untaxed purchases made online. Consumers like to spin this as "saving on taxes."
To put it plainly, they've been evading taxes for years whether they like to believe it or not. Much the same as digital piracy it's illegal...it just doesn't feel like it.
Of course at the moment this doesn't apply to folks living here in NH or AK, MT, OR and DE where there is no sales tax.
While I have no evidence to support it, I suspect a significant portion of the online price advantage is attributable to the fact that the online retailers aren't burdened by tax administration outside their home States. Once tax administration is required across the board we'll likely see the "tax savings" evaporate as well as some of the difference in sticker prices.
To put it plainly, they've been evading taxes for years whether they like to believe it or not. Much the same as digital piracy it's illegal...it just doesn't feel like it.
Of course at the moment this doesn't apply to folks living here in NH or AK, MT, OR and DE where there is no sales tax.
While I have no evidence to support it, I suspect a significant portion of the online price advantage is attributable to the fact that the online retailers aren't burdened by tax administration outside their home States. Once tax administration is required across the board we'll likely see the "tax savings" evaporate as well as some of the difference in sticker prices.
@josephmartins The thing that's absolutely wrong about efforts to collect sales tax is that states want to collect it for the state where the consumer lives, not the state where the goods are shipped from. Sales tax is supposed to support the infrastructure behind the transaction; police and fire, building and health inspection etc. None of that happens in the customer's home. It's all required where the store/warehouse facility is located. The only thing requiring government infrastructure support in the customer's state is transportation/delivery, and UPS, Fedex etc. already pay taxes to do business.
Collect sales tax in the store/warehouse's state, absolutely. Collect sales tax in the customer's state, H*** NO.
Collect sales tax in the store/warehouse's state, absolutely. Collect sales tax in the customer's state, H*** NO.
@josephmartins ANY avoidance of tax is honorable. The "sin" is sending more of our national treasury to DC. Just because "they" write laws to mandate their extortion, does not make it right. Fight taxation of internet commerce at every front and take advantage of not having those scoundrels shaking us down every time we purchase something.
@Scott HB Sales tax is a state tax, not a federal tax. It doesn't go to DC.
@josephmartins Personlly I am for anything that avoids any tax. Politians take far too much of our money for their benefit. I always look online first and see what the prices are. I am willing to wait a few days. Food and clothing are two things though I really think we need Brick and Morter for.
@josephmartins Sales tax varies from state to state, to county, to city, even between neighborhoods is some cases. Washington State's Department of Revenue publishes a quarterly newsletter that summarizes the tax rates for all the counties and cities in the state - the table runs to three pages of 2-column text! If I buy from Costco.com, which is based in my home state, they'll charge me sales tax for their own city. But if I buy from an out-of-state retailer and WA insists on collecting their tax, that retailer in CA or NY or FL or wherever is expected to charge me the correct tax for my specific address? For every state and county? Constantly updated? And any error opens the retailer to a tax fraud prosecution? Just how complicated do we need to make this?
@ellett I understand why you might try to rationalize it the way that you have, but you are incorrect. What we have referred to as a "sales tax" in most States is actually a "sales and use" tax. One is collected at the point of sale. The other is the responsibility of the consumer. As far as I am aware all 45 States that impose a sales tax also levy a use tax. The intent of both is to fill local coffers.
@Scott_HB @nbkz81f I hear you, but you're basically suggesting that we all illegally evade taxes at every opportunity (as opposed to filing legitimate deductions). It seems that would make us no better than the folks we love to hate, right? Like many of our parents preached to us at least once during our childhoods...if Billy jumped off a bridge would you follow?
@kidtree I understand the complexity, but that's up to the States to hash out if they want something workable and enforceable that won't overburden businesses. They'll need to create and update a sales tax database and will be responsible for keeping it up-to-date. It's trivial to query such a DB during a transaction and apply the most up-to-date tax.
@Scott_HB @nbkz81f I hear you, but you're basically suggesting that we all illegally evade taxes at every opportunity (as opposed to filing legitimate deductions). It seems that would make us no better than the folks we love to hate, right? Like many of our parents preached to us at least once during our childhoods...if Billy jumped off a bridge would you follow?
@kidtree I understand the complexity, but that's up to the States to hash out if they want something workable and enforceable that won't overburden businesses. They'll need to create and update a sales tax database and will be responsible for keeping it up-to-date. It's trivial to query such a DB during a transaction and apply the most up-to-date tax.
@josephmartins I deeply disagree with Scott HB that any avoidance of tax is honorable; I believe that tax to support government infrastructure that makes business (and residential) life possible is right and proper.
But any tax whose purpose is to "fill government coffers" is totally immoral and should be opposed at every opportunity. This is government at its worst.
If Amazon starts charging tax based on the location of the warehouse they ship from, that's acceptable. If Amazon starts charging tax based on my residence, I'm looking for another vendor as a matter of principle.
But any tax whose purpose is to "fill government coffers" is totally immoral and should be opposed at every opportunity. This is government at its worst.
If Amazon starts charging tax based on the location of the warehouse they ship from, that's acceptable. If Amazon starts charging tax based on my residence, I'm looking for another vendor as a matter of principle.
@ellett "To fill local coffers" were my words not the government's. Neither of us are likely in a position to claim that sales and use tax revenue is in any way misused/abused by our local governments.
It does not matter who you choose to do business with or where their warehouses are located. What matters is where you live. Unless you happen to live in one of the five previously mentioned sales-tax free States, then you owe "use tax" to your State Treasury for every taxable item you purchase online from an out of state supplier. As a principled man I'm sure you would agree that not submitting tax that is legally due is tax avoidance of the type Scott HB speaks.
It does not matter who you choose to do business with or where their warehouses are located. What matters is where you live. Unless you happen to live in one of the five previously mentioned sales-tax free States, then you owe "use tax" to your State Treasury for every taxable item you purchase online from an out of state supplier. As a principled man I'm sure you would agree that not submitting tax that is legally due is tax avoidance of the type Scott HB speaks.
@josephmartins In Kentucky where I live a part of our annual tax return asks us to provide a dollar amount of the items we by out of state or online and then we are taxed on that amount. There is a minimum amount factored in if you do not include a dollar amount. Right now I am not sure how they, the state, can determine if you are being honest without an audit.
@ellett I'm all for my state collecting all the sales tax it is due me from my online orders. But there is no way I am paying some other state's sales tax to them! Why should I? I don't live there and receive no benefit from that state. For the record my state charges 0% sales tax. Any state that charges more than 0% sucks!
@cornpie :
of course you can avoid sales tax. the retailer mails an empty box to your home for 5 bucks and you save ? on the tax because you "bought it at home."
of course you can avoid sales tax. the retailer mails an empty box to your home for 5 bucks and you save ? on the tax because you "bought it at home."
Retail's greatest strength was the fact that they employed actual employees in order to assist customers with purchases. The problem was that they went from knowledgeable staff to minimum wage overworked high school register jockeys. Ever go into Best Buy or Barnes & Noble? Even if you can get help (also a problem), they're rarely able to do more than locate the item; often times they'll spend more time desperately trying to upsell you on Monster cables and their warranty than they are on helping you pick the right product. With "service" like that, paying a retail markup is mostly pointless.
The second issue that retail has had is the fact that niche items are hard to find. Now obviously it's easier for Amazon to stock more obscure movie titles and CDs than Best or Wal-Mart can have on their shelves, but when Big Store A and Big Store B have the same stuff, and for the most part ONLY the same stuff, as Online Retailer C has, and Online Retailer C can sell it at 20% less plus have a bunch of other stuff that neither A or B can stock, it makes it very difficult to justify making a purchase at retail.
...Unless you need the one thing that retail can offer that online tangible goods never will - instant gratification.
Joey
The second issue that retail has had is the fact that niche items are hard to find. Now obviously it's easier for Amazon to stock more obscure movie titles and CDs than Best or Wal-Mart can have on their shelves, but when Big Store A and Big Store B have the same stuff, and for the most part ONLY the same stuff, as Online Retailer C has, and Online Retailer C can sell it at 20% less plus have a bunch of other stuff that neither A or B can stock, it makes it very difficult to justify making a purchase at retail.
...Unless you need the one thing that retail can offer that online tangible goods never will - instant gratification.
Joey
@voyager529
Liked your reasoning, BUT
Our economy is driven by consumerisim, if there is doubt of the future, consumers won't buy brick and morter or on line.
This effects brick and morter more than on-line retailers as the on-liners are not supporting payroll (for flunkies who cannot explain a product near as well as an on-line description) and outrageous rents.
Thus we should antisipate more brick and morter closings in the spring.
Other than products that need to be touched and felt (eg: clothing) I would antisipate a "mall" concept which would entail an e-tail showroom of products (with little/no inventory) staffed by professional salespersons who can explain all of the features. (cell phone store model) and an order on-line kieosk.
As to tax, you can count on a national tax on on-line sales at some point which may/may not be shared with involved states. (would, most likely be added to State block grants, so as to avoid dealing with local taxes)
JOC
Liked your reasoning, BUT
Our economy is driven by consumerisim, if there is doubt of the future, consumers won't buy brick and morter or on line.
This effects brick and morter more than on-line retailers as the on-liners are not supporting payroll (for flunkies who cannot explain a product near as well as an on-line description) and outrageous rents.
Thus we should antisipate more brick and morter closings in the spring.
Other than products that need to be touched and felt (eg: clothing) I would antisipate a "mall" concept which would entail an e-tail showroom of products (with little/no inventory) staffed by professional salespersons who can explain all of the features. (cell phone store model) and an order on-line kieosk.
As to tax, you can count on a national tax on on-line sales at some point which may/may not be shared with involved states. (would, most likely be added to State block grants, so as to avoid dealing with local taxes)
JOC
@voyager529
OOPs, forgot somthing,
there is a smart phone app, which will capture a sku and return who in the market place has a lower price.
Big time problems for brick and morter.
JOC
OOPs, forgot somthing,
there is a smart phone app, which will capture a sku and return who in the market place has a lower price.
Big time problems for brick and morter.
JOC
@Jack@... Smart B&M stores already know about that and block your phone signal while you are in their store.
Brick and mortar can seldom compete on price. But they can compete on value. Customer service, convenience, the "you can find me tomorrow" reassurance.
This is the key point -- brick and mortar stores must deliver value to survive. A good start would be employing knowledgeable employees to actually be available to help customers. Examples -- Target & Macy's -- rarely shop there any more as they have no employees on the floor to help customers -- the few they have run registers or are taking inventory. Why bother with that scenario when Amazon can do the same thing and deliver to my house. Contrast with LL Bean, Ritz Camera, and HB Hunt Photo (my favorite camera store chains). They have employees who greet you and work to help you with your selection/purchase, etc. For me the brick and mortar stores do not have to have the lowest price (it must be a reasonable price) and must have employees providing (knowledgeable) service. Otherwise why step in the store????
@access@... Maybe if shipping was free.
The mall teenager will demand the bricks. No way the mall experience will go to online shopping. I want to feel and try on cloths and shoes. I want to tasted the confections.
E-commerce isn???t killing brick and mortar, it???s changing it. Shoppers still want to get it now by trying it and picking it up, instead of waiting for the item to be delivered. To compete with online shopping stores will have to become more agile by bringing the power of e-commerce into the hands of the store associate, empowering them with greater information about their customers, their products and cross channel orders (information available online).
Gee a changing business model for bricks. You mean they may have to reinvent themselves? Many cities have mom & pop stores even though there is a Costco, etc. Some will adapt, some won't. It's life.
@rjm56 ... I work for a small, local newspaper and we deal with local, mom & pop shops in all of the towns that we serve. Some are thriving because they focus on customer service: people like to walk into a store where the owner/manager knows their name, knows what they usually need, etc. Some are actually able to compete on price, too. The problem they have is that they have to operate on thin margins and don't have much left over to market themselves -- or they simply don't want to grow beyond the town(s) they currently serve, because they won't be able to provide the same level of customer service. Case in point: a small TV/entertainment sales & service place that serves (primarily) 3 towns. They deliver, install and train people on the new systems they've purchased -- FOR FREE. They'll even take away their old, dead equipment and dispose of it for free. But they can only do that when the customers live nearby, so that the trips don't keep them away from the store too long driving to or from the customer's location, which is wasted time.
From where I'm sitting, I see mom & pops having an advantage -- personalized, customer-focused service, as well as deep product knowledge -- compared to cost-cutters like Walmart or Target. I'll shop online for items that I can pick out without seeing/touching/trying them on. For the stuff I need to experience first, I'll go with a local store -- and I try to avoid Walmart, etc. in favor of helping out my local mom & pops. Frankly, the money I save on gas by only driving a short distance to a store here in-town instead of driving two towns away to get to Walmart, makes the two options work out to about the same total cost, anyway. And my local stores tend to re-invest much of the money locally, buying from other local businesses, sponsoring local (kids) sports teams, and employing local residents ... who, in turn, tend to spend more money in-town, feeding the whole buy-local cycle. Everybody wins.
From where I'm sitting, I see mom & pops having an advantage -- personalized, customer-focused service, as well as deep product knowledge -- compared to cost-cutters like Walmart or Target. I'll shop online for items that I can pick out without seeing/touching/trying them on. For the stuff I need to experience first, I'll go with a local store -- and I try to avoid Walmart, etc. in favor of helping out my local mom & pops. Frankly, the money I save on gas by only driving a short distance to a store here in-town instead of driving two towns away to get to Walmart, makes the two options work out to about the same total cost, anyway. And my local stores tend to re-invest much of the money locally, buying from other local businesses, sponsoring local (kids) sports teams, and employing local residents ... who, in turn, tend to spend more money in-town, feeding the whole buy-local cycle. Everybody wins.
Honestly, it depends on what you're buying. Grocery shopping will stay brick & mortar while tech stuff will be more online. The bigger the product, the more likely you'll be in a brick store as well, with the opposite also being true as well. Obviously anything that can be digitized (Games, movies, music, etc) will take clicks to the extreme (and indeed, already have) with downloads. Brick stores will be hurting because of it. Indeed, they already are. If you're not a super-cheap megamart (i.e. Walmart), you're probably sucking wind...partially because most of the stuff on Amazon is at least a little bit cheaper than its retail counterparts, sometimes a lot cheaper depending on what you're buying. The biggest advantage that web stores have though is without a doubt variety and supply. Amazon can afford to sell a hundred different brands of knives or toasters because they don't have to prioritize shelf space. Likewise, because they can store products in giant warehouses, they don't have to worry quite as much about running out of a product. Not to mention finding it is as easy as typing in the name.
I use both, but the majority of my purchases are still done at the bricks. Oftentimes, I will do all my product research online, and then order it for store pickup that same day at places like Best Buy, etc. This way, I can go there and get it the same day, with no likelihood of shipping damage, and the ability to bring it back to the store if it doesn't work or suit my needs.
Really? Didn't we have this discussion in the early '90s? This and the paperless office were gonna revolutionize the world.. Blah blah blah.....
@mkelley65
Real physical stores are not going to go away anymore than live concerts, theaters and movie houses has gone away with the appearance of recorded music and fancy reproduction electronics.
Real physical stores are not going to go away anymore than live concerts, theaters and movie houses has gone away with the appearance of recorded music and fancy reproduction electronics.
E-Commerce will thrive until they are forced to pay for taxes that are currently uncollected. Other than food, I can't think of a single piece of electronics that I bought in a brick store.
@trust2112@... : Well, I can - most of the ones I buy I want to EXPERIENCE and try out first - so head for the brick palace - and if I then revert to an online purchase, I recognize I am cutting the throat of the brick houses, so I do usually also favor the brick place with the purchase. For me, it's more a matter of long term economics vs. the selfish "price is everything".
Barnes and Noble do quite well in our area.
Books, magazines, movies, music, and a coffee shop/reading area.
They also sell e-readers, and can download e-books on demand.
They've probably reduced their hard copy inventory to a couple on the shelves, especially the more expensive, slower moving books, but popular literature and best sellers still have a high volume during release.
Books, magazines, movies, music, and a coffee shop/reading area.
They also sell e-readers, and can download e-books on demand.
They've probably reduced their hard copy inventory to a couple on the shelves, especially the more expensive, slower moving books, but popular literature and best sellers still have a high volume during release.
Two things:
First: There will aloways be people that want to see, touch and smell what they are buying. They may still buy online due to pricing but a lot of people still want to kick the tires.
Second: More and more online stores are charging taxes so the advantages of buying online to save taxes are going away.
I envision online stores setting up brick and mortar stores where you can kick the tires and immediately order it online. Have you gone to Kohl's lately and seen their kiosk? This is what I tried to get retail to do 5 years ago.
At Kohls; if you see something you like and they don't have the color or size you want then you swipe your Kohl's card and it will be delivered for free to your door.
First: There will aloways be people that want to see, touch and smell what they are buying. They may still buy online due to pricing but a lot of people still want to kick the tires.
Second: More and more online stores are charging taxes so the advantages of buying online to save taxes are going away.
I envision online stores setting up brick and mortar stores where you can kick the tires and immediately order it online. Have you gone to Kohl's lately and seen their kiosk? This is what I tried to get retail to do 5 years ago.
At Kohls; if you see something you like and they don't have the color or size you want then you swipe your Kohl's card and it will be delivered for free to your door.
@ksweeney@... Borders books use to try that, I asked them why should I pay > 30% more to order online, when I can order it on Amazon ??? I have gone into the book store to buy books knowing I can buy them cheaper, but I needed them for a project and have payed extra. I have quite going to the book store now since they have basically cannibalized their computer book section.
I SHOP (look, price,study) on the web. Then I prefer to buy hands-on in many cases. I also prefer to keep the money I spend in the local community when possible.
@olddogv When are you planning on moving to China?
There will always be a need for brick and mortar as long as there's people like my mom and ex-wife who like to "window shop." As for me, I've come to realize that there is nothing that can't be bought significantly cheaper online. I've never really been the type to want to hang out in the large crowds and be bothered by other people while I'm looking for something anyhow (I'm a software engineer, need I say more?).
Another issue I've seen, being in the IT industry, you find a lot of tech stores hires the kid at minimum wage who's earning a couple fast bucks when he's not preparing for his senior prom. A lot of the time, he doesn't have a clue what the heck he's talking about, but he'll make some crap up and you get to nod your head and smile .
Lastly, the whole high pressure sales pitch irritates the bujezus out of me. When I go into a store, I typically know exactly what it is that I want, and I don't need a sales associate to discourage me and hassle me about how "an educated and informed individual would buy 'x' if he had any sense" or how "for only double the cost of your purchase, you could get a limited warranty that only applies to acts of frogs."
I'm not really as anti-social as I make out, but I find shopping rather irritating. Brick and mortar is for groceries, online is for everything else.
Another issue I've seen, being in the IT industry, you find a lot of tech stores hires the kid at minimum wage who's earning a couple fast bucks when he's not preparing for his senior prom. A lot of the time, he doesn't have a clue what the heck he's talking about, but he'll make some crap up and you get to nod your head and smile .
Lastly, the whole high pressure sales pitch irritates the bujezus out of me. When I go into a store, I typically know exactly what it is that I want, and I don't need a sales associate to discourage me and hassle me about how "an educated and informed individual would buy 'x' if he had any sense" or how "for only double the cost of your purchase, you could get a limited warranty that only applies to acts of frogs."
I'm not really as anti-social as I make out, but I find shopping rather irritating. Brick and mortar is for groceries, online is for everything else.
David is right. The bricks model is changing, not going extinct. People like to go out and shop (okay, not me but a lot of people do). It's a social and shared experience. You look, touch feel, pick it up, put it back, debate, go to another store, come back, maybe buy it after a latte and discussion with your friends.
Technology has a looooong way to go to equal this experience. Maybe some day we can step into the holodeck and go shopping, but by that time we ought to be able to print our products on our personal 3D printers.
I suspect Jason is a target shopper. As in - I know what I want and the easiest way to get it is to order it and have it delivered to my door. Me too. But don't confuse the incredible ease of that activity with the death of the brick and mortar store just because you don't visit them that often.
Technology has a looooong way to go to equal this experience. Maybe some day we can step into the holodeck and go shopping, but by that time we ought to be able to print our products on our personal 3D printers.
I suspect Jason is a target shopper. As in - I know what I want and the easiest way to get it is to order it and have it delivered to my door. Me too. But don't confuse the incredible ease of that activity with the death of the brick and mortar store just because you don't visit them that often.
There will still be the need for warehouses and shipping facilities. Depending on the size of the business, office space will be required to manage sales, accounting, etc..
What's really going to suffer are the number of people needed to work in retail.
What's really going to suffer are the number of people needed to work in retail.
The only things that can really be bought online are commodities like physical books 'coz they've got an ISBN number, music and software (if you're already familar with it) Hardware like motherboards and ram and CPU's are maybe candidates too, but if things go wrong online, you are very much on your own because there is no actual human interaction. If the online store says "stuff you" you are stuffed. With a physical store you can at least throw a brick through the window and choke the manager if all else fails.
Anything that you want to evaluate requires physical presence because photographs very rarely match the physical item eg, jewelry, clothes , fabric, cars, PC cases, gadgets, keyboards, mice, monitors, laptop carry cases,etc If you want to shop online for any item that has a subjective aspect...let the buyer beware.
Furthermore, if you don't live in the USA, online shopping is rarely cheaper than bricks and mortar. By the time you've added the delivery costs, you might as well have gone to a bricks and mortar shop.
Given a choice, I'll always opt for bricks and mortar.
Anything that you want to evaluate requires physical presence because photographs very rarely match the physical item eg, jewelry, clothes , fabric, cars, PC cases, gadgets, keyboards, mice, monitors, laptop carry cases,etc If you want to shop online for any item that has a subjective aspect...let the buyer beware.
Furthermore, if you don't live in the USA, online shopping is rarely cheaper than bricks and mortar. By the time you've added the delivery costs, you might as well have gone to a bricks and mortar shop.
Given a choice, I'll always opt for bricks and mortar.
The only things that can really be bought online are commodities like physical books 'coz they've got an ISBN number, music and software (if you're already familar with it) Hardware like motherboards and ram and CPU's are maybe candidates too, but if things go wrong online, you are very much on your own because there is no actual human interaction. If the online store says "stuff you" you are stuffed. With a physical store you can at least throw a brick through the window and choke the manager if all else fails.
Anything that you want to evaluate requires physical presence because photographs very rarely match the physical item eg, jewelry, clothes , fabric, cars, PC cases, gadgets, keyboards, mice, monitors, laptop carry cases,etc If you want to shop online for any item that has a subjective aspect...let the buyer beware.
Furthermore, if you don't live in the USA, online shopping is rarely cheaper than bricks and mortar. By the time you've added the delivery costs, you might as well have gone to a bricks and mortar shop.
Given a choice, I'll always opt for bricks and mortar.
Anything that you want to evaluate requires physical presence because photographs very rarely match the physical item eg, jewelry, clothes , fabric, cars, PC cases, gadgets, keyboards, mice, monitors, laptop carry cases,etc If you want to shop online for any item that has a subjective aspect...let the buyer beware.
Furthermore, if you don't live in the USA, online shopping is rarely cheaper than bricks and mortar. By the time you've added the delivery costs, you might as well have gone to a bricks and mortar shop.
Given a choice, I'll always opt for bricks and mortar.
Clicking cannot replace actually putting your hands on an item and seeing/feeling it for yourself, nor can it replace real, personal, customer service.
Online reviews are often less than helpful.
Review 1: Crappy product. *
Review 2: Great producti. ****
How is that helpful?
Online reviews are often less than helpful.
Review 1: Crappy product. *
Review 2: Great producti. ****
How is that helpful?
O.K look back. Did mail order catalogues ( your grandparents or great grand parents) kill "brick & mortar" stores? No they didn't.
Technology were appropiate not for its own sake.
Technology were appropiate not for its own sake.
Bricks live, but how well? E-real estate makes the business case for the high rent mall increasingly hard to justify. Escalating fuel prices make travel to said mall in the family land ark a non-impulse thing to do. Nevertheless, retail thrives on the impulse buy and on the dopamine inspiring good feeling of making the purchase. e-commerce is short on the dopamine experience for now but strategies like gamification might turn the tide. So, bricks live, for now, maybe in a museum later, as electrons continue their ascent in retail.
Well over all I would say Clicks will become even more important as time goes on. It is easier to compare items online, because of the choices you have, there is NO brick store that carries a wide variety of anything anymore cause cost so much to have setting on the shelves. Now when done looking and deciding on what I want, then if a Brick has it close will go buy from them, otherwise will just click away. With the price of gas and the way people drive even in my little town, there is nothing I need other than food that I can not wait to get when mail arrives. And another thing customer service in Bricks is terrible at best, so just as easy to look at my computer screen, and not have to deal with the rude clerks who can not even tell you want they have in the store. But as far as I see it is e-commerce is even more important than before, and in my small town, saves me time and money.
Anyone remember the Sear and Roebuck Catalog? That was mid 19th Century. Brick and mortar will survive just like they have by offering personalized service and meeting the needs of individuals, not met by on line. They may need to evolve the way they survive, but there will always be a need for face to face touch and actions.
What's killing brick & mortar, if anything is, and as it always has been, a lack of customer service. I can order a software package online, have it delivered to my door (or just download it) and install it myself. If I run into a problem I can jump on the support site, call (usually), or ask other users.
Or, I can go to the "electronics" store, talk to some kid who generally doesn't know anything, but would like the sale and then go home and try to install the thing.
If I go to a bank I want folks there who are smiling and pretending to be happy to see me. If I go to the mall, same thing. Why is Southwest Airlines successful and others are filing for bankruptcy? What's their "business" magic? Unlike popular myth Southwest is more unionized than many other carriers, so we can't blame the unions for their lack of failure. When I flew another carrier the other day everyone, including the passengers, seemed to be in a bad mood. When I fly Southwest, I am always struck by the very rare instance when someone is even slightly irritable. That's not to say this doesn't happen, but it's generally not the rule. And a lot of times my bags, which fly "free," arrive at the same airport I do--what a bonus? What's this "business magic" Southwest uses, has been studied forever and no other carrier seems able to get right? Hmm...
What's killing brick and mortar? The same thing that has killed poorly run businesses for generations--a lack of customer focus (and, yes, poor leadership/management, but those often run hand-in-hand with the lack of customer focus).
So, yep, the click is a definite and dramatic change in the world of brick and mortar, but I love to go to the Apple store, wait in line, mill in the crowds and shop at a mall (why are there always crowds at the Apple store, often a waiting line [a waiting line at a retail store and it's not Black Friday--What's with that?], but the other places are often ghost towns in comparison). All the preceding I hate to do (go to mall, wait in line, mill around in crowds), but the Apple store is just sort of a fun and cool experience. A fun and cool experience? At the mall? Give me a break.
(Oh, and, I didn't really understand the whole voting thing.)
Or, I can go to the "electronics" store, talk to some kid who generally doesn't know anything, but would like the sale and then go home and try to install the thing.
If I go to a bank I want folks there who are smiling and pretending to be happy to see me. If I go to the mall, same thing. Why is Southwest Airlines successful and others are filing for bankruptcy? What's their "business" magic? Unlike popular myth Southwest is more unionized than many other carriers, so we can't blame the unions for their lack of failure. When I flew another carrier the other day everyone, including the passengers, seemed to be in a bad mood. When I fly Southwest, I am always struck by the very rare instance when someone is even slightly irritable. That's not to say this doesn't happen, but it's generally not the rule. And a lot of times my bags, which fly "free," arrive at the same airport I do--what a bonus? What's this "business magic" Southwest uses, has been studied forever and no other carrier seems able to get right? Hmm...
What's killing brick and mortar? The same thing that has killed poorly run businesses for generations--a lack of customer focus (and, yes, poor leadership/management, but those often run hand-in-hand with the lack of customer focus).
So, yep, the click is a definite and dramatic change in the world of brick and mortar, but I love to go to the Apple store, wait in line, mill in the crowds and shop at a mall (why are there always crowds at the Apple store, often a waiting line [a waiting line at a retail store and it's not Black Friday--What's with that?], but the other places are often ghost towns in comparison). All the preceding I hate to do (go to mall, wait in line, mill around in crowds), but the Apple store is just sort of a fun and cool experience. A fun and cool experience? At the mall? Give me a break.
(Oh, and, I didn't really understand the whole voting thing.)
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RE: Great Debate: Is e-commerce killing brick and mortar?
RE: Great Debate: Is e-commerce killing brick and mortar?
DVD set $25 @ Target, $21 at Amazon. Other things we just pick up at store.
There is no a widespread usage of ordering groceries online, and especially perishables are better picked up where the quality can be seen.
RE: Great Debate: Is e-commerce killing brick and mortar?
The actual debate...
...is, will internet stores eliminate brick and mortar stores. Its a very very odd debate for several reasons.
1. If you are considering things in the imaginary "forever" time line the debate would essentially be, will online stores eventually replace brick and mortar stores at some point in the future, even if it takes 500 years. The answer then would clearly be, who knows, its very possible, it could easily happen and probably even much much sooner then 500 years because so much changes over time, given long enough the shopping experience will likely resemble nothing like the process we typically go through today.
2. Jason is indicating that he does not have to consider the debate in the forever time line and is in fact saying outright that 10 to 15 years should do it and brick and mortar stores will be largely irrelevant if not completely gone. If thats his true stance its ludicrous because he doesn't seem to comprehend the sheer magnitude and scope of the changes in society in general would have to take. Keep in mind, it wasn't all that long after the first credit cards appeared in the very early 50's that numerous so called people in the know were making predictions that withing 10-15 years actual printed money and coin would likely become obsolete given the power and security credit cards and other potential forms of "plastic" payment would provide for. Others who's brains were thinking with a little more clarity and thoughtful foresight said, its not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. They quickly recognized the actual real on the ground dynamics that would have to take place for plastic payment to completely eradicate paper and coin money and it wasn't hard for them to recognize that just because something may be physically possible it doesn't always mean it can actually happen in real life because there are often way too many other things directly attached to the situation that makes any kind of rapid change impossible for society to cope with.
The problem with Jason's side of the debate is that he appears to be looking at it from the point of view of someone who personally can imagine doing all his shopping online for his own personal reasons so it seems to be a real possibility to him. What he hasn't seemed to take into any real consideration is anything else. And there are many many other things that come into play that have nothing to do with the fact that even right now today there are many people who could imagine doing all their shopping online. I know many can. Problem number one is that many more can not. And many of those who cant imagine it, also simply don't want to do all their shopping online. For many many people out there, obviously not like Jason, they actually really enjoy shopping at brick and mortar stores. That creates a market for brick and mortar and as such there will always be people who like to make money operating brick and mortar stores until some day in the far flung future where thats largely been bred out of the human race. Not in 15 or even 20 years though.
And for net sales to push store sales right out of the picture one has got to consider how the employment market is going to cope with that. Retail sales is one of the most massive areas of employment for people of average education. If you think that internet retailers are going to scoop even a small portion of those unemployed brick and mortar employees up, your living in dreamland. The reason internet sales work as well as it does is because its cheap. Its cheap because they sell massive piles of products (if they are successful) and they employ far fewer actual humans per dollar sold then brick and mortar stores do. The math doesn't work for keeping a significant proportion of the population employed. Sure that can change over time, but an employment shift of that magnitude takes way way longer then 10-15 years without chaos ensuing.
I cant even imagine the international implications. How does one country that has virtually no brick and mortar stores work in a world where many parts of the world still operate with mostly brick and mortar stores. Don't tell me there would be no ramifications.
Right now this whole argument is plainly silly and far too soon to seriously think about.
RE: Great Debate: Is e-commerce killing brick and mortar?