Matthew Miller
iPhone Yes
or
iPhone No
Jason Perlow
Best Argument:
iPhone Yes
Audience Favored:
iPhone No (68%)
List of Events:
Opening Statements
iPhone 5 purchase is a no-brainer
Matthew Miller: Back in June, Apple unveiled iOS 5, and the features convinced me that I had to have the next iPhone. Apple took the best from Android, Symbian, Windows Phone 7, BlackBerry, and Zune to create iOS 5; with improvements in the excellent iPhone 4, you got a smartphone that nearly achieved mobile nirvana.
But I did not buy an iPhone 4 because I did not like the iOS notification system and rather dated look and feel of the operating system. iOS 5 and the new iPhone will address those concerns and provide so much more.
It's not just the hundreds of thousands of applications that set the iPhone apart. The fact that you can go a full day without having to charge or replace the battery, get the highest resolution smartphone display, enjoy messaging and social networking with ease, obtain and access content from the largest and most integrated mobile ecosystem, and have one of the largest accessory markets available -- all make an iPhone 5 purchase a no-brainer.
Design doesn't fit my requirements
Jason Perlow: While I am an owner of several Apple products, the next-generation iPhone is not the "smartphone of my dreams" or even the ultimate product in its category.
Why would I say this, device sight unseen? Because Apple's design ethos doesn't fit my use case requirements, which is typical of frequent business travelers.
No matter what whiz-bang software improvements, faster chip or higher-res display Apple introduces, it will almost certainly lack key functionality that I need -- the ability to run on and tether to a 4G high-speed LTE network, and to use a replaceable, extended charge battery.
And given that I am an avid user of GMail, Google Voice and Google Calendar, the tighter Google integration is essential -- something only an Android phone can give me.
So instead of waiting for the Verizon iPhone 5, I went for the Droid Bionic. If I want to use iOS 5 on the road, I can tether it with an iPad.
The Rebuttal
Closing Statements
Happiness is an improved iPhone 4
Matthew Miller
The ZDNet audience voted overwhelmingly against the new iPhone 4S. While I was a bit disappointed by the same size display, what were people really expecting with this announcement? The iPhone 4S comes in at the same price as the existing iPhone 4 with a new dual-core processor, greatly improved camera, and longer battery life. iOS 5 is inside with amazing features like Siri voice technology, improved notification system, iMessage service, integrated iCloud support and much more.
Millions have purchased the iPhone 4 and now customers on Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T can buy the new world phone and use it in the U.S. and when they travel abroad. Cases and accessories from the iPhone 4 should work fine with the iPhone 4S too.
Apple announced a significantly improved iPhone 4 in the 4S -- so be happy!
Oh Great iPhone 5, where are you?
Jason Perlow
If Linus Van Pelt were an Apple fanboy, that’s likely what he’d be saying right now.
Indeed, this week’s “Let’s Talk iPhone” launch event was the tech industry equivalent of the eternal wait for the Great Pumpkin. And the tech press and blogosphere were dragged into it like an army of Sally Browns.
As we’ve all learned since that Halloween cartoon special first aired in 1967, the Great Pumpkin is a sham. He’s purely a figment of Linus’ imagination. He never, ever comes. No matter how many times we watch it, no matter how much we want to believe.
And while I am an Android phone user, I too wanted the Great Pumpkin — the iPhone 5 — to be real. I wanted Apple to really push the envelope on smartphone hardware, rather than release a purely iterative and modest upgrade to an existing design like they did with the iPhone 4S.
Verdict: iPhone 4S, yes! Price is the killer feature
Jason Hiner
Apple's iPhone 4S announcement turned out to be a bit of a letdown for the press and the tech crowd, but we're still likely to see the new iPhone fleet win over a lot of upgraders and new customers. For that reason, I'm going to rule against the crowd on this one and declare Matt Miller the winner of the debate.
The iPhone 4S has its weaknesses, as Jason Perlow pointed out. The lack of a 4G LTE version will rule out an iPhone purchase for many high-end tech buyers, especially those who want to do LTE tethering. There's also the issue of the undersized 3.5-inch display and the question of whether one of the best new features -- iCloud -- will be able to handle the crushing load of traffic and maintain acceptable uptime.
But, there are more things tipping in the iPhone's favor. It still has by far the best and simplest integration of hardware, software, and services, and Android's inconsistency in this area is driving some of its first-gen customers to consider the iPhone instead. In the U.S., this will be the second iPhone to land on Verizon and the first one to land on Sprint, and Apple is also extending the number of carriers internationally. Finally, with iPhone 3GS turning into a free phone (with contract) and the original iPhone 4 (8GB) dropping to $99, there are going to be a lot more people who are willing and able to buy the iPhone. While all of the tech specs do matter, price will likely be the killer feature for the iPhone over the next year.
In partnership with Ricoh Doc's final thoughts: iPhone 4S? Save your money
DocEven if you assume that all the speculation is correct and the iPhone 4S comes with dual-mode capabilities, voice control, an A5 processor, better antenna (about time), HSPA (4G sort-of) and the new iOS5, it’s still just another incremental device and nothing to get too excited about. Apple is good at making great products, and I’m sure the iPhone 4S will be just as terrific as previous versions.
But aren’t we all getting a bit carried away with our insatiable appetite for the latest and greatest gadget? The cell-phone industrial complex has us sucked into their endless year-after-year contracts, mostly because we can’t stop upgrading. Apple is making tons of money from people buying things they don’t really need. And all of this in the midst of a recession. Surely, we can find better things to do with our time and money than upgrading from an iPhone 3 or 4 to an iPhone 4S. I mean it’s great to spend and keep people employed, but Apple has enough of our money and probably isn’t facing layoffs anytime soon, even if some people hold on to their iPhones for an extra year or two.
If you don’t have an iPhone, then this may be a good time to jump in; but if you have an iPhone 3 or 4, go ahead and give this upgrade a miss. Your life won’t materially change.
More from "The Great Debate"
for an unannounced product, I can only say wake up and smell the vapor
@hwrd_lwrd
it is funny we're all talking about a device that hasn't even been announced yet, and may not even be called the '5' but the '4S.' For me it's the new iOS 5 and iCloud integration that gives it potential upside for me- someone who drank the Apple cool aid and hasn't missed my Windows machine or iPAQ (remember those?) or Palm Pilot or Windows Mobile Phone in years... I am glad to see the notifications updated- badly needed.
it is funny we're all talking about a device that hasn't even been announced yet, and may not even be called the '5' but the '4S.' For me it's the new iOS 5 and iCloud integration that gives it potential upside for me- someone who drank the Apple cool aid and hasn't missed my Windows machine or iPAQ (remember those?) or Palm Pilot or Windows Mobile Phone in years... I am glad to see the notifications updated- badly needed.
@hwrd_lwrd
Thanks but no thanks! This is more hype than actual wow factor! Android and MS are doing so much more but since ZDNET is pro-Apple I don't expect anything less. I'll be sticking with WP 7.5 at my side!
Thanks but no thanks! This is more hype than actual wow factor! Android and MS are doing so much more but since ZDNET is pro-Apple I don't expect anything less. I'll be sticking with WP 7.5 at my side!
@rob.sharp@??? Speaking of hype, ZDNet has hyped WP 7 (and WP 7.5) than anything I have ever seen. For a Mobile OS that has less Marketshare than Linux has on the desktop, there is sure a lot of hype on it.
Now that the fumes have cleared and everybody's coming down from their rumor-fueled high, I'm going to declare victory and pre-order an i4S. The i5 is vapor! Long live the i4S!
iPhone no way. Wastes lot of time for updating, need to open each application to update e.g., News, Weather, Calendar, Mail and Facebook etc. all need to open one by one.
Android. Way to Go. Widgets do all magic. No need to open applications. All updates available at home screen.
Android. Way to Go. Widgets do all magic. No need to open applications. All updates available at home screen.
@aquariun76
I guess u must've been looking at an iPhone wannabe. iPhone Apps are updated in one central place, and you get instant notifications for those updates even if you haven't used the app in ages. Good one though...made me laugh a little.
I guess u must've been looking at an iPhone wannabe. iPhone Apps are updated in one central place, and you get instant notifications for those updates even if you haven't used the app in ages. Good one though...made me laugh a little.
@aquariun76 Really, one by one? When was the last time you saw an iPhone, 2006? Get real.
This website is full of Windoze and Android users. IT guys in backoffices. Enjoy your klunky Samsung or LG, with junk apps thanks to no ratification....but let's call it "open". Hmm.
This website is full of Windoze and Android users. IT guys in backoffices. Enjoy your klunky Samsung or LG, with junk apps thanks to no ratification....but let's call it "open". Hmm.
@pkhunter
/ratification/censorship/
/ratification/censorship/
@aquariun76 Wastes lot of time for updating, need to open each application to update e.g., News, Weather, Calendar, Mail and Facebook etc. all need to open one by one.
Not true anymore but by all means keep right on trying to prove your point by using way outdated information...
Not true anymore but by all means keep right on trying to prove your point by using way outdated information...
@Pete "athynz" Athens
Well, at least that's an implied admission that Apple were in fact BEHIND both Windows Phone 7 and Android, and had to catchup.
Can you believe it? Apple being out-innovated by Microsoft. Wow, that's a bit lame from Apple!
Well, at least that's an implied admission that Apple were in fact BEHIND both Windows Phone 7 and Android, and had to catchup.
Can you believe it? Apple being out-innovated by Microsoft. Wow, that's a bit lame from Apple!
@Pete "athynz" Athens Yes you can update all apps or one at a time.
@wp7mango actually that is just misinformation spread by Apple haters. Appstore updates have been common for quite some time now, longer than WP 7 devices have been available. So there is no way iOS devices would be behind WP 7, unless you are saying that even though iOS devices had the feature first, it took longer to have the feature.
@aquariun76
You clearly have never used an iPhone. Even before 5 I got updates with the badges that tell you you have new messages or calendar notifications
You clearly have never used an iPhone. Even before 5 I got updates with the badges that tell you you have new messages or calendar notifications
There are several posts out there about this, I think taking there reference could have made this post or article really informative. I am not saying this information is not good. But I must say that the information provided here was unique, but to make it more near to complete, supporting with other previous information will have been really good. The points you have touched here are really important bridal wedding dresses, so I will post some of the information here to make this really good for all the newbie???s here. Thanks for this information. Really helpful!
Im an IPHONE NO, becuase Ive owned 2 Iphones, and the Os is just boring. Whats the point of clicking through every app, to see whats up? Sorry Im a Windows Phone 7 now. The live tiles, and the social network integration, is simply breathless. Apple can try to copy the best of WP7, but they are one page behind.
@Ryanthelyon
I like iOS, but my WP7's social networking integration is farrr superior to iOS or Android. Seems how the primary function of a phone is to keep in contact with people, iOS and Android are now falling behind as they are still so heavily app dependent.
Unless the iPhone5 brings the same level of social integration, it is not my dream phone. Even then, I much prefer Live Tiles.
I like iOS, but my WP7's social networking integration is farrr superior to iOS or Android. Seems how the primary function of a phone is to keep in contact with people, iOS and Android are now falling behind as they are still so heavily app dependent.
Unless the iPhone5 brings the same level of social integration, it is not my dream phone. Even then, I much prefer Live Tiles.
@spaulagain So your main criteria for a phone is twitter and Facebook? Maybe you need to get out of the basement and get a life.
@spaulagain
While I agree apple is far behind trying to play catch up your accessment of Android falling behind is quite puzzling when the wp7 sales show it is at the back of the pack. i do like microsoft and am testing the windows 8 developers version now and from all the testing and other testers the least liked part is the metro tile setup. Its a good 10-2 fail ration amongst windows users and fans. The tile structuyre albeit good for"kiddie" play is very non user friendly and definately not for any real work or power usage. Android is the fatest growing os and is killing all other mobile os setup. The iphone 5 is still to far behind times to even be considered a true contender or want device.Until Microsoft listens to its customer base and dumps the tile and metro style it is on a path for total failure. Android phones win hands down with every option and user friendly options out there.
While I agree apple is far behind trying to play catch up your accessment of Android falling behind is quite puzzling when the wp7 sales show it is at the back of the pack. i do like microsoft and am testing the windows 8 developers version now and from all the testing and other testers the least liked part is the metro tile setup. Its a good 10-2 fail ration amongst windows users and fans. The tile structuyre albeit good for"kiddie" play is very non user friendly and definately not for any real work or power usage. Android is the fatest growing os and is killing all other mobile os setup. The iphone 5 is still to far behind times to even be considered a true contender or want device.Until Microsoft listens to its customer base and dumps the tile and metro style it is on a path for total failure. Android phones win hands down with every option and user friendly options out there.
@Rick_Kl,
So are you saying you buy and iPhone because it's the best at making phone calls? Twitter and Facebook are apps just like the fart app that you probably own. I think the point @spaulagain is making is that the implementation/integration is better.
So are you saying you buy and iPhone because it's the best at making phone calls? Twitter and Facebook are apps just like the fart app that you probably own. I think the point @spaulagain is making is that the implementation/integration is better.
@Fletchguy - Please do not confuse sales of a mature ecosystem (Android) to that of an up-and-coming ecosystem (Windows Phone 7). Windows Phone 7 is picking up steam. Also, please do not confuse reaction to the Metro interface as part of Windows 8 as it pertains to PC operating system with that of the Metro interface as it pertains to tablets and phones. Most people I talk to seem to like the Metro interface on the smaller touch-centric form factors. Just my 2 cents.
@spaulagain But if you are talking about Facebook. It is pretty boring.
@spaulagain
You clearly form part of a demographic who have a new definition for what a mobile phone should do for them.
It appears that the device is predominantly a leisure device and not used for most things associated with the achievement of a SmartPhone status.
Your communication needs seem to revolve around what many consider frivolous, but obviously to you they are mandatory. Many that take the time to visit and comment on these boards would take exception to your needs rating a mention. Personally I would be horrified to be the owner of a smartphone that raised the trivial to the fore, but then I am a different demographic and use my own smartphone for reports (weather, stocks, sports, etc), CRM (company databases of contacts, time and activities), billing, reminders, address book, reference data, TV programming, guitar tuning, status reports on servers, networks, etc., currency conversion and geographical location and route finding. The fact that I can make phone calls is almost a bonus, although texting does rate a mention. However things such as FaceBook, Twitter, and other social networking or gaming sites are regarded as a scourge and almost a virus on my phone. I do not need to validate my life hourly by learning incremental details of what my friends are thinking or doing.
It would appear from our differences, that each smartphone OS would benefit from an over-riding interface selection mode, where you select your generation, and the interface changes accordingly, while still providing the same apps and functionality.
It's all software now, and as we have well learnt, a programmer thinks differently from Joe Average. To sell more, you appeal to the masses. But now, as I intimate above, it would be possible to aim at more than one target market at the same time. The answer is always yes - the question remains how.
You clearly form part of a demographic who have a new definition for what a mobile phone should do for them.
It appears that the device is predominantly a leisure device and not used for most things associated with the achievement of a SmartPhone status.
Your communication needs seem to revolve around what many consider frivolous, but obviously to you they are mandatory. Many that take the time to visit and comment on these boards would take exception to your needs rating a mention. Personally I would be horrified to be the owner of a smartphone that raised the trivial to the fore, but then I am a different demographic and use my own smartphone for reports (weather, stocks, sports, etc), CRM (company databases of contacts, time and activities), billing, reminders, address book, reference data, TV programming, guitar tuning, status reports on servers, networks, etc., currency conversion and geographical location and route finding. The fact that I can make phone calls is almost a bonus, although texting does rate a mention. However things such as FaceBook, Twitter, and other social networking or gaming sites are regarded as a scourge and almost a virus on my phone. I do not need to validate my life hourly by learning incremental details of what my friends are thinking or doing.
It would appear from our differences, that each smartphone OS would benefit from an over-riding interface selection mode, where you select your generation, and the interface changes accordingly, while still providing the same apps and functionality.
It's all software now, and as we have well learnt, a programmer thinks differently from Joe Average. To sell more, you appeal to the masses. But now, as I intimate above, it would be possible to aim at more than one target market at the same time. The answer is always yes - the question remains how.
@timw@??? [So are you saying you buy and iPhone because it's the best at making phone calls? Twitter and Facebook are apps just like the fart app that you probably own. I think the point @spaulagain is making is that the implementation/integration is better.]
I feel that Facebook and Twitter are not a reason to base the phone decision on. I recently read that there are over 100 fart apps for WP 7, and that number is growing. So what would you point be? If I do buy an iPhone, it will be the overall package that sells it. For me WP 7 phones (aka Windows Mobile), do not make sense, as I would also have to buy a copy of Windows. Not to mention I think the UI on Windows Phones is butt ugly.
I feel that Facebook and Twitter are not a reason to base the phone decision on. I recently read that there are over 100 fart apps for WP 7, and that number is growing. So what would you point be? If I do buy an iPhone, it will be the overall package that sells it. For me WP 7 phones (aka Windows Mobile), do not make sense, as I would also have to buy a copy of Windows. Not to mention I think the UI on Windows Phones is butt ugly.
@zdnet@...
And WP7 does those things that you talk about. There are third party apps. And they are growing at a faster rate than iPhone or Android did when they were released. And just because you have 500,000+ apps, doesn't mean they are good or effective apps. With that many apps, I think I would find it overwhelming as a user.
Because WP7 is built on .NET there is a plethora of developers who already know the language and its super easy for them to get started building apps for it. Also, the development tools for WP7 are farrrr better than Android and mostly better than iOS.
You mention the need for a phone that does both Social Networking and App-Centric functionality. Well, WP7 does! The Live Tiles are great for things you mentioned regarding weather, stocks, etc. They allow for third party apps to feed the user information on their home screen without even having to open the app. But then for further info, the user can open the app.
Not to mention that Microsoft is already on path to support cross-app functionality. Allowing apps to pass information between each other. In the Win8 preview they talk about this. And next year, along with Win8, WP8 will be rolling out.
While you may demand higher level functionality from your smartphone in regards to apps, the statistics are out there. The MAJORITY of smartphone users do not need those. Most use Facebook/Twitter/Games and basic tools like weather. All of which WP7 is VERY good at.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apps_and_adult_cell_phone_users.php
So while you claim I am a "new" demographic, its clear that this demographic has been around for a while and is actually in the majority.
And WP7 does those things that you talk about. There are third party apps. And they are growing at a faster rate than iPhone or Android did when they were released. And just because you have 500,000+ apps, doesn't mean they are good or effective apps. With that many apps, I think I would find it overwhelming as a user.
Because WP7 is built on .NET there is a plethora of developers who already know the language and its super easy for them to get started building apps for it. Also, the development tools for WP7 are farrrr better than Android and mostly better than iOS.
You mention the need for a phone that does both Social Networking and App-Centric functionality. Well, WP7 does! The Live Tiles are great for things you mentioned regarding weather, stocks, etc. They allow for third party apps to feed the user information on their home screen without even having to open the app. But then for further info, the user can open the app.
Not to mention that Microsoft is already on path to support cross-app functionality. Allowing apps to pass information between each other. In the Win8 preview they talk about this. And next year, along with Win8, WP8 will be rolling out.
While you may demand higher level functionality from your smartphone in regards to apps, the statistics are out there. The MAJORITY of smartphone users do not need those. Most use Facebook/Twitter/Games and basic tools like weather. All of which WP7 is VERY good at.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apps_and_adult_cell_phone_users.php
So while you claim I am a "new" demographic, its clear that this demographic has been around for a while and is actually in the majority.
@Ryanthelyon
I also agree. iOS and Android have a long way to go to catch up to wp7. But pride will keep Apple and Giggle from copying the basic user flows of the Windows Phone so they're both already screwed.
I also agree. iOS and Android have a long way to go to catch up to wp7. But pride will keep Apple and Giggle from copying the basic user flows of the Windows Phone so they're both already screwed.
@bruce.wilson@...
If you look online or in the windows 8 tester posts the down fall of wp7 is the same fact that has windows users now turned off by windows and thats the unproductive kiddie tile interface known as metro. Users avoided the wp7 and are now blasting windows 8 for the fact that the metro tile ui is an ultimate fail other then for kids or people who only want a fb or twitter phone. It basically is so non user friendly it would appear a mass exodus from windows will be forth coming if the metro idea isn't yanked. The tile setup is so horrible and the reason I opted not to go for th wp7 as its just unbearable and childish.
If you look online or in the windows 8 tester posts the down fall of wp7 is the same fact that has windows users now turned off by windows and thats the unproductive kiddie tile interface known as metro. Users avoided the wp7 and are now blasting windows 8 for the fact that the metro tile ui is an ultimate fail other then for kids or people who only want a fb or twitter phone. It basically is so non user friendly it would appear a mass exodus from windows will be forth coming if the metro idea isn't yanked. The tile setup is so horrible and the reason I opted not to go for th wp7 as its just unbearable and childish.
@bruce.wilson@... I suspect that I represent the population which defines the WP problem. I owned 4 generations of Windows phones, if you count 6.5 as separate from 6.1 and liked them all. When I needed to replace my Windows Mobile 6.5 phone due to breakage, my choices were Windows Mobile 6.5, wait for WP an indefinite period or chose between iPhone and Android 2.2. I chose the Android phone and now have no particular reason to change environments. Becasuse MS was so slow releasing anything after 6.5, they lost me and, I suspect, a lot of others to Android. While I agree that WP7 looks appealing, when I just replaced my phone with VZ, the Droid Bionic met my needs better than any Windows phone they were prepared to actually provide.
@Fletchguy - based on my personal experience, you would appear to be an outlier.
@Ryanthelyon
I agree also. My iPhone feels like this old antique thing now. I mean, a static grid of icons? Come on!
I love live tiles and having a ton of information come to me. I also love the social networking integration. This is -the- facebook and twitter phone.
Everything is very animated and fluid. iPhone has one animation: the open/close app zoom effect. Now that Mango has come out, I can openly mock iOS 5 and dare my friends to compare their phone to mine.
I agree also. My iPhone feels like this old antique thing now. I mean, a static grid of icons? Come on!
I love live tiles and having a ton of information come to me. I also love the social networking integration. This is -the- facebook and twitter phone.
Everything is very animated and fluid. iPhone has one animation: the open/close app zoom effect. Now that Mango has come out, I can openly mock iOS 5 and dare my friends to compare their phone to mine.
@Haku.Mele
Your like of the metro ui tile setup and the phone being a fb and twitter phone are what have dogged the wp7 since its release. You are in a very small minority of microsoft fans who actually like the restrictivness of the metro ui. I passed on the phone due to the child like tiles and heavy social networking as those ar non factors in getting a great powerful smartphone. As it is with windows 8 developer testing it is overwhelmingly being shown metro tile ui is definately not what windows users want or like.
Your like of the metro ui tile setup and the phone being a fb and twitter phone are what have dogged the wp7 since its release. You are in a very small minority of microsoft fans who actually like the restrictivness of the metro ui. I passed on the phone due to the child like tiles and heavy social networking as those ar non factors in getting a great powerful smartphone. As it is with windows 8 developer testing it is overwhelmingly being shown metro tile ui is definately not what windows users want or like.
@Fletchguy - there are far more people out there who are interested in simplicity and security of environment than need/want a "a great powerful smartphone." While you may love the ability to customize every single aspect of your phone, my time is valuable to me and I just want something that works without me having to download/install custom roms, etc.
@Ryanthelyon
You WP7 people are hilarious. This "social integration" nirvana: What does that even mean? First of all, none of these live tiles, or fancy contact lists will ever give you the functionality of a full application. You get one little piece of information on those tiles... you're telling me that doesn't just make you want to jump into the full application to see what's really going on?
What happens when Facebook, Twitter and the "next big social thing" come out with functionality that isn't in your "tile". Oh wait, that's already true.
I'm sorry, those tiles are just a bunch of annoying animations. The fact is, a smartphone IS about it's applications. That's why the iPhone (and Android for that matter) is as popular as it is.
You WP7 people are hilarious. This "social integration" nirvana: What does that even mean? First of all, none of these live tiles, or fancy contact lists will ever give you the functionality of a full application. You get one little piece of information on those tiles... you're telling me that doesn't just make you want to jump into the full application to see what's really going on?
What happens when Facebook, Twitter and the "next big social thing" come out with functionality that isn't in your "tile". Oh wait, that's already true.
I'm sorry, those tiles are just a bunch of annoying animations. The fact is, a smartphone IS about it's applications. That's why the iPhone (and Android for that matter) is as popular as it is.
@rossdav@...
Each to their own. You don't get it because you haven't used a WP7 phone. The tiles are just a small aspect of the "coolness". The BIG feature is the hubs, which organise data according to type rather than source. That means a workflow which is massively improved and far more intuitive in terms of how we work and comminucate.
The Pictures Hub is a classic example - I don't want to have to remember which app to open to view my pictures. I want to see them all in one place, with filtering options available, whether they are from Facebook, cloud, local on my phone etc. This is what WP7 does extremely well. It pulls pictures and albums in to one place, seamlessly, irrespective of where they are. This is "the cloud" at its best!!! I can also view the pictures from the People Hub and filter them according to groups I have created. The result is quite simply amazing!
It's not just about social integration - it's about information integration. If you are a dedicated iPhone user you will probably find it difficult to understand this, because you are used to the app-centric approach. This is where WP7 totally differentiates itself from iOS.
BTW, the one piece of information on those tiles... not true, because the tile can also flip to display more information on the back of the tile. It's actually very neat.
It's why I personally am not going for an iPhone. It's why Windows Phone 7 is the best one for me.
Each to their own. You don't get it because you haven't used a WP7 phone. The tiles are just a small aspect of the "coolness". The BIG feature is the hubs, which organise data according to type rather than source. That means a workflow which is massively improved and far more intuitive in terms of how we work and comminucate.
The Pictures Hub is a classic example - I don't want to have to remember which app to open to view my pictures. I want to see them all in one place, with filtering options available, whether they are from Facebook, cloud, local on my phone etc. This is what WP7 does extremely well. It pulls pictures and albums in to one place, seamlessly, irrespective of where they are. This is "the cloud" at its best!!! I can also view the pictures from the People Hub and filter them according to groups I have created. The result is quite simply amazing!
It's not just about social integration - it's about information integration. If you are a dedicated iPhone user you will probably find it difficult to understand this, because you are used to the app-centric approach. This is where WP7 totally differentiates itself from iOS.
BTW, the one piece of information on those tiles... not true, because the tile can also flip to display more information on the back of the tile. It's actually very neat.
It's why I personally am not going for an iPhone. It's why Windows Phone 7 is the best one for me.
@rossdav@...
Use one for a while and you'll get it. The iPhone looks clunky, heavy and dated and that's just the outside, iOS is a simple old style OS - WP7 is the next step.
Use one for a while and you'll get it. The iPhone looks clunky, heavy and dated and that's just the outside, iOS is a simple old style OS - WP7 is the next step.
@rossdav@...
"First of all, none of these live tiles, or fancy contact lists will ever give you the functionality of a full application"
You don't get it. You can click the tile to start a full application.
The tile purpose is to push notification. so you dont have to navigate all you application to know wich one as updated.
"First of all, none of these live tiles, or fancy contact lists will ever give you the functionality of a full application"
You don't get it. You can click the tile to start a full application.
The tile purpose is to push notification. so you dont have to navigate all you application to know wich one as updated.
@rossdav@... You have the TILES to show you way more info than the red numbers on an Iphone indicating that you have an email. When you do click on the tile, the app is far more superior than the tile (which is already giving alot of information) the thing is, is that WP7 apps carry you a long way, vs the iphone apps were you have to download 5 apps to make one wp7 app. in conclusion, the WP7 is a far more advanced piece of hardware vv. the iphone which has been out for a while now.
@rossdav@... It is nice to see in a quick glance a summary of information in each of my hubs. If I see something interesting and want to dive deeper, I can always open the app and go in. The point is that I can get a summary beforehand to determine if I want to actually get in a see more. A time saver, to be sure!
@rossdav@...
You really don't know what you are talking about. All my contacts are fully integrated with Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter (which I dont use), message, email, texting and phone calls. I can click on one of my contacts, and see all history with them across all those social elements. I see all recent texts, calls, facebook messaging/posts, etc without having to open a single app.
Also, my personal calendar, my work calendar, and my facebook calendar are all completley integrated. Since some of my friend based groups organizes events on Facebook, its extremely helpful to have those events I accept pop-up on my Calendar, showing any conflicts, etc.
I can group my contacts by type like Family, School friends, work friends, etc. I can then pin that group to my home screen and just click that tile to see all updates including pictures, facebook updates, calls, etc from the people in that group. I can also send out mass texts or emails, etc to just the people in that group. All without any third party app.
"a smartphone IS about it's applications"
LOL, this is such a false assumption and there are statistics that show how really unused most apps are.
A Smartphones most fundamental function is to MANAGE YOUR CONTACTS AND CALENDAR. In this way, WP7 exceeds its competitors immensely. I've never been an MS fan-boy, but when it comes to this, MS has finally hit the nail on the head.
I use my phone 90% for contacting and planning and 10% for "apps." Apple and Android have become so focused on the "Apps" part of the Smartphone that they have completely lost focus on what a phone really is.
This article even talks about actual app use...
And guess what the top apps used are? Facebook and Twitter, guess what?!?! With WP7, it already integrates with those services, you don't even really need those apps.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apps_and_adult_cell_phone_users.php
You really don't know what you are talking about. All my contacts are fully integrated with Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter (which I dont use), message, email, texting and phone calls. I can click on one of my contacts, and see all history with them across all those social elements. I see all recent texts, calls, facebook messaging/posts, etc without having to open a single app.
Also, my personal calendar, my work calendar, and my facebook calendar are all completley integrated. Since some of my friend based groups organizes events on Facebook, its extremely helpful to have those events I accept pop-up on my Calendar, showing any conflicts, etc.
I can group my contacts by type like Family, School friends, work friends, etc. I can then pin that group to my home screen and just click that tile to see all updates including pictures, facebook updates, calls, etc from the people in that group. I can also send out mass texts or emails, etc to just the people in that group. All without any third party app.
"a smartphone IS about it's applications"
LOL, this is such a false assumption and there are statistics that show how really unused most apps are.
A Smartphones most fundamental function is to MANAGE YOUR CONTACTS AND CALENDAR. In this way, WP7 exceeds its competitors immensely. I've never been an MS fan-boy, but when it comes to this, MS has finally hit the nail on the head.
I use my phone 90% for contacting and planning and 10% for "apps." Apple and Android have become so focused on the "Apps" part of the Smartphone that they have completely lost focus on what a phone really is.
This article even talks about actual app use...
And guess what the top apps used are? Facebook and Twitter, guess what?!?! With WP7, it already integrates with those services, you don't even really need those apps.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apps_and_adult_cell_phone_users.php
@rossdav@... Really you think the live tiles are just there for facebook and twitter, funny my live tiles do anything but facebook and twitter (both useless wastes of bandwidth), my office tile takes me to documents I am collaborating on using Word on the cloud, my home accounts kept in Excel on the cloud which is live info tied to my bank accounts. My calender displays my daily appointments right on the start screen, I can swipe and see my weeks schedule without opening an app to do so. My Email tile tells me how many Hotmail, gmail and personal emails are in my various accounts. Too bad we have to wait for Window 8 to get the OS on tablets but as for now my phone can do things with one swipe that iOS and Android only wished they could do, it can also do more than an iPad or a Android Tablet can do as well and with Mango's new IE9 browser its killer on using the Internet as well. I have had an iPhone, Blackberry and an Android phone and they are just so much fluff compared to actually doing editing on real documents knowing the minute I walk in the front door that anything I updated during the day will be synced wirelessly with my home network, including any printing I may have sent to print. WP7 may not have been the iPhone killer but now that Mango is being distributed I think you will see more people taking a closer look and choosing the new look. I am tire of people commenting on the Developer's preview as if it is the whole of the new Windows 8 when the OS is not even at Alpha code level yet, it is something for developers to play with and get used to the new mobile interface, I will hold out my criticisms for the Beta's to be released before deciding that Metro is a bad interface especially when I see the actual desktop version of the OS.
@Ryanthelyon Add me to the list of WP7 (especially Mango) converts. I am a gadget guy. I have iPhones, iPads, Android phones, Wp7, Windows 8 Tablet (dev preview), etc....and right now, I gotta say, Microsoft's technology is on top of the heap. WP7 is the best phone OS out there, bar none...not even close.
After using my W8 Tablet for a few weeks now, my iPad feels desperately broken and hobbled.
I would have liked to get my hands on the HP WebOS tablet during the fire-sale, but sadly missed out. From what I've observed, HP WebOS had some great innovations in it. As for Android, I've definitely become more disenchanted with entire fragmented, forked discombobulation that it has become...and now with Amazon forking in a strange direction, I don't like it. The Silk spybrowser is spooky, like we needed another browser, ugh.
After using my W8 Tablet for a few weeks now, my iPad feels desperately broken and hobbled.
I would have liked to get my hands on the HP WebOS tablet during the fire-sale, but sadly missed out. From what I've observed, HP WebOS had some great innovations in it. As for Android, I've definitely become more disenchanted with entire fragmented, forked discombobulation that it has become...and now with Amazon forking in a strange direction, I don't like it. The Silk spybrowser is spooky, like we needed another browser, ugh.
@gomigomijunk
Don't be too freaked by Amazon - all that's happening their is showing the direction Android will take with it being 'open source' but when Google don't like to share. Amazon isn't allowed Android Marketplace access, so the browswer and other things are their way of sidestepping (and really pissing off) Google.
Don't be too freaked by Amazon - all that's happening their is showing the direction Android will take with it being 'open source' but when Google don't like to share. Amazon isn't allowed Android Marketplace access, so the browswer and other things are their way of sidestepping (and really pissing off) Google.
@gomigomijunk yah Im just bought a an HP touchpad, and hopefully goig to wait till the guys over a XDA, will be able to convert W8 to the touchpad, only time will tell.
@gomigomijunk
If you like the current windows 8 dev and metro ui then your in the minority as overwhelmingly people who are testing and psoting hate the metro tile ui and want it gone along with detest for the ribbon. Im with the majority who have found the tile setup very childish and completely useless to be used on a computer. Windows has to have at least 2 things for itscustomer bas to embrass it. A full dektop as the main ui and you must have the start button. Right now metro ui kills that and wp7 sales reflected people dislike for the ui and a quick look online shows make the strong dislike for the metroui and windows as a one ui for all idea. Microsoft which i have been a fan of is in really big trouble right now with windows 8 and metro sure to make Microsoft wish it was only as bad as the Vista backlash. if microsoft keeps tiles and metro they have sealed their own fate and opened a flood gate for linux/ubunto skinned in classic windows uis to the masses.
If you like the current windows 8 dev and metro ui then your in the minority as overwhelmingly people who are testing and psoting hate the metro tile ui and want it gone along with detest for the ribbon. Im with the majority who have found the tile setup very childish and completely useless to be used on a computer. Windows has to have at least 2 things for itscustomer bas to embrass it. A full dektop as the main ui and you must have the start button. Right now metro ui kills that and wp7 sales reflected people dislike for the ui and a quick look online shows make the strong dislike for the metroui and windows as a one ui for all idea. Microsoft which i have been a fan of is in really big trouble right now with windows 8 and metro sure to make Microsoft wish it was only as bad as the Vista backlash. if microsoft keeps tiles and metro they have sealed their own fate and opened a flood gate for linux/ubunto skinned in classic windows uis to the masses.
@Fletchguy - I have a Windows Phone 7 and there is no ribbon anywhere in it. Are you sure you're not thinking of Windows 7, or Windows 8? Windows 8, btw is still largely vaporware and will go through many iterations before it's released. I'll grant you that I'm not entirely sold on the idea of the Metro UI on a classic PC/Laptop, but for phones/tablets, it has been widely praised by nearly every review I have seen of it. I have yet to see a review of a Windows Phone 7 device where the Metro UI was cited as a negative.
@Ryanthelyon Ironically, i thought palmsolo(matt) is for iPhone No.
Anyway, I still don't see the WP7 path here in my country, lots of Androids everywhere.
What's also up with Apple's marketing here? Can't see them too. All Droids...
Anyway, I still don't see the WP7 path here in my country, lots of Androids everywhere.
What's also up with Apple's marketing here? Can't see them too. All Droids...
@Ryanthelyon : I now an Windows Phone 7 now too!! I owned iPhone and android phone and the Windows Phone & and 7.5 is the most advanced smart phone OS out their!! I will never return on Android it is too crappy and the iPhone was a great phone but now it is oldish, I compare the iPhone to an Hyundai car hyundai cars just aged bad, I phone the same....
Windows Phone 7 will really change the smartphone market in the next 3 years... really!
Windows Phone 7 will really change the smartphone market in the next 3 years... really!
@EricDeBerg yah i even went to the exent of an android powerhouse, "HTC INSPIRE" and I love htc, but still half of the android apps were garbage, and the Iphone OS is just boring.... The probem is, is that Apple is so mainstream, that people dont realize they slavishly copy WP7 and Androids "COOL FACTORS".Everybody thinks Apple made them up.
@Ryanthelyon The probem is, is that Apple is so mainstream, that people dont realize they slavishly copy WP7 and Androids "COOL FACTORS".
You DO know that Android is basically a "poor man's copy" of iOS right? Because it is entirely too much of a coincidence that prior to Google's purchase of Android and the release and success of the original iPhone that Android was a Blackberry clone.
And you also DO realize that iOS was introduced prior to both Android AND WP7?
You DO know that Android is basically a "poor man's copy" of iOS right? Because it is entirely too much of a coincidence that prior to Google's purchase of Android and the release and success of the original iPhone that Android was a Blackberry clone.
And you also DO realize that iOS was introduced prior to both Android AND WP7?
This post has helped me for an article which I am writing. Thank you for giving me another point of view on this topic. Now I can easily complete my article. Cheers
http://karenzhou.livejournal.com/7842.html
http://karenzhou.livejournal.com/7842.html
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http://karenzhou.livejournal.com/7842.html
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RE: Great Debate: Is the iPhone 5 your dream phone?
RE: Great Debate: Is the iPhone 5 your dream phone?
RE: Great Debate: Is the iPhone 5 your dream phone?
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