DOJ questioning Apple's hold on digital music
Summary
The U.S. Department of Justice has begun asking questions about Apple's role in the recent scaling back of special music discounts and promotions at Amazon
Topics
The U.S. Department of Justice has begun asking questions about Apple's role in the recent scaling back of special music discounts and promotions at Amazon, according to two high level music industry sources.
The sources said investigators have begun speaking to a number of digital music retailers and top record labels about Apple's response to the "MP3 Daily Deal," an Amazon promotion that involved slashing prices on specific titles and pushing them heavily the day they were released. Amazon sometimes negotiated with the labels to get exclusive access to the music for a day, and the labels and their artists would often support the Daily Deal by promoting it on their Web sites.
Apple managers had informed the labels that any music included in Amazon's promotion would receive no promotion at iTunes, music industry sources told CNET in April. In one case, an industry source said then, Apple complained to Sony Music Entertainment after seeing material from Alicia Keys touted as part of the Daily Deal.
For more on this story, read DOJ inquires about Apple's hold on digital music on CNET News.
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@Linux Guru Advocate
Here is the problem:
1. Amazon asks Sony for a discount on release day so it can sell music to consumers at a discount.
2. Apple tells Sony not to do it:
Apple complained to Sony Music Entertainment
3. Sony, in fear of monopolistic retribution by Apple, stops giving Amazon discounts for the daily deal, thus keeping prices high for consumers.
The U.S. Department of Justice has begun asking questions about Apple's role in the recent scaling back of special music discounts and promotions at Amazon
So no, you are wrong when you say Amazon is selling it cheap and Apple doesn't. Amazon isn't selling it cheap anymore because Apple won't allow it. The issue is that Apple is harming consumers because Apple is abusing its monopoly position. I hope that once the DoJ convicts Apple of being a monopoly in the music market, they punish Apple for leveraging that monopoly to break into the smartphone and tablet markets.
Here is the problem:
1. Amazon asks Sony for a discount on release day so it can sell music to consumers at a discount.
2. Apple tells Sony not to do it:
Apple complained to Sony Music Entertainment
3. Sony, in fear of monopolistic retribution by Apple, stops giving Amazon discounts for the daily deal, thus keeping prices high for consumers.
The U.S. Department of Justice has begun asking questions about Apple's role in the recent scaling back of special music discounts and promotions at Amazon
So no, you are wrong when you say Amazon is selling it cheap and Apple doesn't. Amazon isn't selling it cheap anymore because Apple won't allow it. The issue is that Apple is harming consumers because Apple is abusing its monopoly position. I hope that once the DoJ convicts Apple of being a monopoly in the music market, they punish Apple for leveraging that monopoly to break into the smartphone and tablet markets.
@NonZealot
So many assumptions:
1. Show me proof that Apple has a monopoly.
2. Somehow "Apple complained" becomes "Apple tells Sony not to do it". You're assuming Apple can order Sony around. It seems far more likely that Apple complained a competor was getting an (subjective) unfair advantage.
3. what exactly did they 'leverage' to break (interesting choice of words, deliberately inflamitory) into the smartphone market?
4. What exactly did they 'leverage' to break into the tablet market, since NO TABLET MARKET existed?
The rest of your rant is based on assumption and supposition. Tell me, were you there when this supposed threatoning occurred? Is Apple so all-powerful that the Music industry quivers in fear whenever they speak?
It may be that Apple has done something inappropriate, however nothing in this article or your rant does much more than suggest something inappropriate may have occurred.
Just a thought.
So many assumptions:
1. Show me proof that Apple has a monopoly.
2. Somehow "Apple complained" becomes "Apple tells Sony not to do it". You're assuming Apple can order Sony around. It seems far more likely that Apple complained a competor was getting an (subjective) unfair advantage.
3. what exactly did they 'leverage' to break (interesting choice of words, deliberately inflamitory) into the smartphone market?
4. What exactly did they 'leverage' to break into the tablet market, since NO TABLET MARKET existed?
The rest of your rant is based on assumption and supposition. Tell me, were you there when this supposed threatoning occurred? Is Apple so all-powerful that the Music industry quivers in fear whenever they speak?
It may be that Apple has done something inappropriate, however nothing in this article or your rant does much more than suggest something inappropriate may have occurred.
Just a thought.
1. Do you read NPD statistics?
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/11/03/digital-sales-up-but-is-apple-monopoly-the-price-npd-mint-data-editorial-analysis/
Also Apple has been sued a lot regarding this.
2. See above point. Apple's market share is certainly large enough to order around as the article says.
3. Anyone with half a brain should understand where the "leverage" comes from. A lot of people don't want to carry separate devices for the phone and the music player around. Otherwise why would iPhone have a iPod player function? Put it simply, smartphones are MP3 players with cellphone capabilities. The well-being of the music store does influence smartphone buying decisions, period.
4. Ever heard of Hanvon and Garage Fusion? Dell has announced its own tablets. We can also look at announced and potential new entrants.
The NPD statistics suggest Apple can certainly pull its weight around. Of course, any allegations of threats has to be proved in court. People from Sony would have to testify.
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/11/03/digital-sales-up-but-is-apple-monopoly-the-price-npd-mint-data-editorial-analysis/
Also Apple has been sued a lot regarding this.
2. See above point. Apple's market share is certainly large enough to order around as the article says.
3. Anyone with half a brain should understand where the "leverage" comes from. A lot of people don't want to carry separate devices for the phone and the music player around. Otherwise why would iPhone have a iPod player function? Put it simply, smartphones are MP3 players with cellphone capabilities. The well-being of the music store does influence smartphone buying decisions, period.
4. Ever heard of Hanvon and Garage Fusion? Dell has announced its own tablets. We can also look at announced and potential new entrants.
The NPD statistics suggest Apple can certainly pull its weight around. Of course, any allegations of threats has to be proved in court. People from Sony would have to testify.
1. So, apple controls less than 75 percent of the digital market, which is 35 percent of music sales, or less than 26 percent of the music market. Seems weak to call that a monopoly.
2. The article did not say Apple "ordered" anything, it said they "complained". Seems a reasonable thing to do if a company you do business with undercuts your price with a competitor.
3. Lame insult aside, I don't own an iPhone and yet my phone can play music so part of your argument fails. The link between iTunes purchased music and the iPhone would have been a possibly valid concern but I believe drm-less music is now available from iTunes, which means it could be loaded to any phone? So I should be able to load my iTunes song onto smart and dumb phones alike.
4. The JooJoo tablet crashed and burned as I recall, possibly because of the friction between Fusion Garage and the other company (can't remember the name). I think they've sold like 100 so far? Hardly a market.
quite honestly, I've never heard of Hanvon. However a brief look at their sight shows 3 very specific limited products (eBook, graphics, and writing). These look more like eReaders (Nook, etc), I don't think it's the same thing.
Future products do not make a market.
2. The article did not say Apple "ordered" anything, it said they "complained". Seems a reasonable thing to do if a company you do business with undercuts your price with a competitor.
3. Lame insult aside, I don't own an iPhone and yet my phone can play music so part of your argument fails. The link between iTunes purchased music and the iPhone would have been a possibly valid concern but I believe drm-less music is now available from iTunes, which means it could be loaded to any phone? So I should be able to load my iTunes song onto smart and dumb phones alike.
4. The JooJoo tablet crashed and burned as I recall, possibly because of the friction between Fusion Garage and the other company (can't remember the name). I think they've sold like 100 so far? Hardly a market.
quite honestly, I've never heard of Hanvon. However a brief look at their sight shows 3 very specific limited products (eBook, graphics, and writing). These look more like eReaders (Nook, etc), I don't think it's the same thing.
Future products do not make a market.
When MS does something, people pull up their market share and past history as a basis for their "proof" (assumptions)
All NZ is doing is looking at Apple past history and current actions to back up his facts.
All NZ is doing is looking at Apple past history and current actions to back up his facts.
With due respect, I don't see any facts in NZ's comment, just ranting and accusations with nothing to back it.
There are things I don't like about Apple the company and Apple products, but the "facts" in the article aren't convincing. Perhaps the DOJ will find something but until then this all seems like an overreaction.
There are things I don't like about Apple the company and Apple products, but the "facts" in the article aren't convincing. Perhaps the DOJ will find something but until then this all seems like an overreaction.
All you can say is:
I'm sure my beloved Apple isn't doing anything bad! Steve Jobs told me that Apple is a nice and cuddly company and I believe him!
I'm sure my beloved Apple isn't doing anything bad! Steve Jobs told me that Apple is a nice and cuddly company and I believe him!
@NonZealot
How pathetic. Apparently you DON'T have any real facts so instead you spew unfounded accusations and if someone DARES to call you on it you fall back on personal attacks. Don't I remember you in another article complaining that someone wasn't disputing your argument with facts instead of personal attacks?
So instead of just being pathetic, you're a pathetic hypocrite. Congrats
How pathetic. Apparently you DON'T have any real facts so instead you spew unfounded accusations and if someone DARES to call you on it you fall back on personal attacks. Don't I remember you in another article complaining that someone wasn't disputing your argument with facts instead of personal attacks?
So instead of just being pathetic, you're a pathetic hypocrite. Congrats
Quoting the article:
"In one case, an industry source said then, Apple complained to Sony Music Entertainment after seeing material from Alicia Keys touted as part of the Daily Deal."
This `sparring` between megacorps is of little concern to me, except that one of my favorite artists (Alicia Keys) has been drawn into the fray. Working out special promotional deals is something often done in the retail world. It seems that Apple `feels` that it must act like Microsoft (e.g. `the 800 lb gorilla`) in order to get its way. Like I have said about Microsoft regarding their bad ways; "Bad Monkey, No Bananas For You!!!"
To the DOJ, go after them.
"In one case, an industry source said then, Apple complained to Sony Music Entertainment after seeing material from Alicia Keys touted as part of the Daily Deal."
This `sparring` between megacorps is of little concern to me, except that one of my favorite artists (Alicia Keys) has been drawn into the fray. Working out special promotional deals is something often done in the retail world. It seems that Apple `feels` that it must act like Microsoft (e.g. `the 800 lb gorilla`) in order to get its way. Like I have said about Microsoft regarding their bad ways; "Bad Monkey, No Bananas For You!!!"
To the DOJ, go after them.
@bfilipiak@...
When Apple is able to go to the supplier of another competitor and start dictating the prices that will be offered to that competitor, you have an abusive, predatory monopoly. This Apple is rotten to the core.
When Apple is able to go to the supplier of another competitor and start dictating the prices that will be offered to that competitor, you have an abusive, predatory monopoly. This Apple is rotten to the core.
Apple has a big monopoly over other when it comes to music whether you like it or not. Their Itunes service allows you to buy from many devices including PC's. When you have that much market share, The people who you are buying goods from to sell will listen very close when you have a complaint. To try and undercut Apple is like trying to take on Walmart, Not gonna happen. The DOJ should seriously investigate them and punish them if it merits. Take a look at LaLa? They bought them out only to shut them down to gain market share. Sounds pretty monopolistic doesnt it? That is why I would rather spend money and buy from a smaller service provider than from Apple.
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