Netbook returns blamed on Linux 'teething problems'
Summary
Higher return rates for Linux-based netbooks don't necessarily reflect badly on the open-source operating system, according to Ubuntu backer Canonical.
Topics
The return rate on Linux-powered netbooks may be higher than that for Windows netbooks, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing for Linux, according to Canonical.
Canonical, which sponsors the popular Ubuntu Linux distribution, was responding to figures released last week by MSI, the maker of the Wind netbook.
In an interview with Laptop Magazine, MSI said its studies showed its Suse Linux-based ultraportables were returned at a rate four times higher than Windows-based Wind machines.
That bears out Canonical's experience with netbooks based on Ubuntu, said Canonical marketing manager Gerry Carr. "We're seeing similar types of return rates for our machines," Carr told ZDNet.co.uk.
However, such figures shouldn't distract from the fact that Linux is, in general, proving a great success on netbooks, Carr said.
"Return rates are higher, but they're not high," he said. "Return rates are low. That they're higher than with Windows XP, a technology that has been around for 20 years, is understandable."
Canonical first demonstrated a netbook version of Ubuntu in June, and is now working with several equipment manufacturers, including Toshiba, whose Ubuntu-powered, 8.9-inch NB100 is set to reach the UK this month.
Carr emphasized that even if some users have been disappointed, the fact remains that low-cost ultraportables such as Asus's Eee PC have managed for the first time to bring Linux to a wide user base. "Some teething problems are to be expected with a new technology," he said.
In September, Amazon.com said Linux-based netbooks were among the top-selling laptops. During the month of August, 12 of the best-selling netbooks were based on Linux, six supported Windows XP and two supported Vista, Amazon told ZDNet.com. Linux buyers seemed to be motivated by lower prices compared with Windows-based netbooks, Amazon said.
Some users seem to buy Linux-based netbooks without fully realizing what they're buying, Carr said. "Some people are misbuying, and then they send it back because it's not Windows," he said. "What would be more worrying would be if they simply didn't like it for itself — if they used it and it didn't work. But that doesn't seem to be the case."
In MSI's particular case, the Wind's Suse Linux implementation has been criticized for serious shortcomings, such as problems connecting to wireless networks, Carr noted.
Talkback Most Recent of 30 Talkback(s)
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Where are these returned Machines
I keep looking online for refurbished Linux Netbooks and can?t find any. Are they being resold as new?
duclod10th Oct 2008 -
'teething problems'
well written but i would like the know the return rate for Linux not compared XP or vista, is it 1% or 25% and the share of the for the markets of netbooks whats the longitudinal trends how is it changing from month to month is the return rate increasing decreasing, how is Linux fairing in the market place.
TDMBlanchard10th Oct 2008 -
The problem with the teething claim .....
... is that Linux has been arround longer then XP. If you count Unix which it is based on it is way older.
ShadeTree10th Oct 2008 -
Nice try but no dice...
How long has Linux been offered pre-installed on any system... now how long has Windows been offered pre-installed on any system? Get it, it's new to the masses and it's only been available pre-installed for a much shorter time. So the teething claim stand and is valid.
Linux User 14756010th Oct 2008 -
So you are admitting it .....
... still isn't ready for prime time. That 7 step program must be helping!ShadeTree10th Oct 2008 -
two different things
Not ready for "prime-time" and not pre-installed are not
equivalent. Your point is incorrect. *UNIX systems have been
prime-time for longer than NT.
Spats3010th Oct 2008 -
.....
No, that is your pathetic attempt to confuse the truth. Linux is ready problem is like with any new product being marketed, it has to be marketed. Also I was refuting your claim based on fact. So instead of accepting you were wrong you deflect to another prose. Typical. Linux User 14756010th Oct 2008 -
Pre-installing an OS makes it ....
... easier for the consumer not harder. Marketing is not the problem for returns being four times higher. You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on your fat @rse.ShadeTree10th Oct 2008 -
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If the consumer is anything like what I see with typical Windows users... then yes it would be harder because they are clueless.
Next if the consumer is under the assumption or impression that they are getting Windows then it's a problem as well. Windows has had much more time to be refined for pre-installs. Also Windows has had a lot of exposure so the OEM's have figured out how to present Windows in such a way that it is easier.
People in general still don't really know what Linux is. Also OEM's are still trying to find the right set-up for the average user. The bottom line is you are still running from the fact you were WRONG again. Linux User 14756010th Oct 2008 -
RE: Netbook returns blamed on Linux 'teething problems'
Proving once again no one wants linux! The people at Canonical seem to be clueless about these netbook returns.
"Return rates are higher, but they're not high," he said. "Return rates are low. That they're higher than with Windows XP, a technology that has been around for 20 years, is understandable."
Return rate are higher but not that high? Just admit defeat already and close up your shop! XP has been around for 20 years either. Lets look at linux, its been around for 15 years and still hasn't made any inroads to anything computer related and people do not want it. With thinking like those of Canonical's its no surprise that linux is dying. These guys are delusional.
Lets look at the real problem of linux and why people do not want it. It is such a pain to configure and maintain. Lets check every software program installed on linux (all 500 of them because they don't give you a choice), then go to each vendor's website to see if the new version is available, try to find the download link amongst all the other text they have on the screen, download the source code, then bring up a terminal window where the user has to type in unknown commands to get the source to extract, then use some more obfuscated commands to compile the source and pray it compiles cleanly, then install it to whatever directory the application feels like installing it to since there is no standard for that, and the user has to find the executable file, run it and watch it seg fault and then create the kernel panic.
I won't mention the network issues where it takes hours to configure, or the sound issue of only playing one sound at a time. Going through all this trouble and linux still hasn't figured out why no one is using their OS. Sad. Very very sad.
Loverock Davidson10th Oct 2008 -
PFF!
Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing at your reply:
"Proving once again no one wants linux! The people at Canonical seem to be clueless about these netbook returns."
What are you talking about? Sales of Linux based machines are going up for first time in history. They didn't use to preinstall linux destributions on laptops, since one of the producers started to, the others started copying because it had positive results. Now there are more netbooks with linux preinstalled than windows. Get your facts right!
"Return rate are higher but not that high? Just admit defeat already and close up your shop! XP has been around for 20 years either. Lets look at linux, its been around for 15 years and still hasn't made any inroads to anything computer related and people do not want it. With thinking like those of Canonical's its no surprise that linux is dying. These guys are delusional."
Shop? Pff! Canonical isn't a shop! XP has been around since 2003, I was using Slackware linux in the 90's... I've been a windows and linux user for more than 10 years, each one has it's benefits... and Linux has come a LONG way since then, specially SuSe, Ubuntu and Archlinux... Now: "Linux is Dying"? Where on earth did you get THAT fact from? Au contraire; Show me evidence, show me textual facts and I'll believe you, because sale rates just prove the opposite.
"Lets look at the real problem of linux and why people do not want it. It is such a pain to configure and maintain."
Tell that to any Ubuntu user... Install time is faster than XP (I did mine in 10-15 minutes, XP takes 30-45). Comes preinstalled with open office, quite a few useful apps, wireless drivers, everything. USB Memory devices work just as in XP: Plug and play... Configure? That's optional. Maintain? It has software updates, just like in windows XP. Auto update works since it is installed... You dont have to "turn it on" like in Windows, plus, there is no annoying Windows Genuine Advantage programs auto-downloaded.
"Lets check every software program installed on linux (all 500 of them because they don't give you a choice), then go to each vendor's website to see if the new version is available, try to find the download link amongst all the other text they have on the screen, download the source code, then bring up a terminal window where the user has to type in unknown commands to get the source to extract, then use some more obfuscated commands to compile the source and pray it compiles cleanly, then install it to whatever directory the application feels like installing it to since there is no standard for that, and the user has to find the executable file, run it and watch it seg fault and then create the kernel panic."
PFF!! Obviously you are refering to 10 year old distributions right? You must not know the wonders of apt-get (or pacman in archlinux), aptitude, synaptic... etc... It's called centralised application/package location. All packages are stored in the same place, it's a "global" application add/remove system, much better than windows. Finding a certain application takes tons less time than in windows, plus, you don't have to go to the vendors website...oh! and might I say, application updates come through the same updating service... so it's really really practical!
"I won't mention the network issues where it takes hours to configure, or the sound issue of only playing one sound at a time. Going through all this trouble and linux still hasn't figured out why no one is using their OS. Sad. Very very sad."
OH my gosh, same issue... My wireless network was detected since I did the install, I was using ethernet since BASH (terminal) loaded and auto-detected DHCP settings. It took 5 seconds, and there was no mention of the word "configure". Playing one sound at a time? Are you on drugs? I've got sound working on flash, multiple instances at a time... I can play music through amarok or rythmbox, have a movieplayer instance running an AVI or an MP3, and be watching a youtube video at the same time, on multiple screens, with no slowdown rate.
Might I add, Linux (specially ubuntu and archlinux) have better built-in graphic rendering systems (gnome, kde) which preserve memory and use it wisely, compared to windows (even worse in vista). Linux programmers know how to best use computer resources, Windows should learn something about this! Instead of asking for more requirements every new version.
And if you can't admit I am right about this, you must really have your head filled with hype. I dare you! Download ubuntu (from the main site), burn the ISO (easy cd creator? power iso?) stick it in your machine, and go on... try it out, maybe on a second partition, or another hard drive... just for the sake of it... You will only use up a few minutes, and you will learn how Linux has progressed since the time you seem to have used it last.
Go on!
lemiffe10th Oct 2008 -
How many times will I have to put linux users in their place?
Ah jeez... this is getting tiring. If you linux users would just accept that no one wants your OS we could both save a lot of time. But to correct you like I always have to....
What are you talking about? Sales of Linux based machines are going up for first time in history.
And they are being returned at quadruple the rate!
Shop? Pff! Canonical isn't a shop! XP has been around since 2003, I was using Slackware linux in the 90's... I've been a windows and linux user for more than 10 years, each one has it's benefits... and Linux has come a LONG way since then, specially SuSe, Ubuntu and Archlinux... Now: "Linux is Dying"? Where on earth did you get THAT fact from? Au contraire; Show me evidence, show me textual facts and I'll believe you, because sale rates just prove the opposite.
So linux has been around long before XP and still no one uses it. Proves my point pretty well. It is dying, go back the the quadruple return rate statement.
Tell that to any Ubuntu user... Install time is faster than XP (I did mine in 10-15 minutes, XP takes 30-45). Comes preinstalled with open office, quite a few useful apps, wireless drivers, everything. USB Memory devices work just as in XP: Plug and play... Configure? That's optional. Maintain? It has software updates, just like in windows XP. Auto update works since it is installed... You dont have to "turn it on" like in Windows, plus, there is no annoying Windows Genuine Advantage programs auto-downloaded.
I have told that to ubuntu users many many times. But linux does not install faster than XP. You left out all the post configuration you have to do with it too while on XP you have a configured system right out of the box with apps that meet most people's neesd. They can't bundle apps because its compeitors had hissy fits when they did that and decided to throw a law suit at them.
PFF!! Obviously you are refering to 10 year old distributions right? You must not know the wonders of apt-get (or pacman in archlinux), aptitude, synaptic... etc... It's called centralised application/package location. All packages are stored in the same place, it's a "global" application add/remove system, much better than windows. Finding a certain application takes tons less time than in windows, plus, you don't have to go to the vendors website...oh! and might I say, application updates come through the same updating service... so it's really really practical!
No I'm talking about distributions now. Isn't having the source code one of the main perks of running linux as you fanboys always say? Now you are saying you don't want the source but precompoiled binaries like Windows has had for years? The repositories are not a trusted site so people don't use them. They are getting hacked every couple of months and then down for another couple of months. Configuring the system to use them is complicated. Which leads us back to the linux fanboy having to go back to the vendor's site for the source code.
OH my gosh, same issue... My wireless network was detected since I did the install, I was using ethernet since BASH (terminal) loaded and auto-detected DHCP settings. It took 5 seconds, and there was no mention of the word "configure". Playing one sound at a time? Are you on drugs? I've got sound working on flash, multiple instances at a time... I can play music through amarok or rythmbox, have a movieplayer instance running an AVI or an MP3, and be watching a youtube video at the same time, on multiple screens, with no slowdown rate.
I call BS on your statements. Linux is known to have network issues, incompatible cards and wireless. Many hours being spent on a terminal window reconfiguring. That is not what end users want to do. And yes, linux plays one sound at a time, play more than one and it queues it up so you have a never ending stream of sounds going if you are doing a lot of things at once.
Might I add, Linux (specially ubuntu and archlinux) have better built-in graphic rendering systems (gnome, kde) which preserve memory and use it wisely, compared to windows (even worse in vista). Linux programmers know how to best use computer resources, Windows should learn something about this! Instead of asking for more requirements every new version.
Wrong again. Thats not linux, that is X. But even then X, KDE, Gnome, don't really render that well. You want to believe it does, you hypnotized yourself to believe it does, but the sad truth is it doesn't.
And if you can't admit I am right about this, you must really have your head filled with hype. I dare you! Download ubuntu (from the main site), burn the ISO (easy cd creator? power iso?) stick it in your machine, and go on... try it out, maybe on a second partition, or another hard drive... just for the sake of it... You will only use up a few minutes, and you will learn how Linux has progressed since the time you seem to have used it last.
You are not right about this as I have proven. And I have downloaded linux and tried it, how do you know I think it sucks so bad with so many issues? Duh!Loverock Davidson10th Oct 2008 -
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Now there is a validation of your inability to grasp reality! When have you even put a Linux user in their place? Never.
You have never stepped up with factual data.
You have consistently run when confronted by a united and strong front. Never once standing your ground.
You have consistently provided your version of the truth which doesn't synch with real life data or experiences.
You are continually called on your lies and you continually run the other way.
You couldn't put a gnat in it's place you idjit. Linux User 14756010th Oct 2008 -
You're arrogant as hell......
Have you tried KDE, namely, 3.5-ish? You can play as many sounds as you want right out of the box, GNOME is what you're thinking that doesn't let you do this easily.
I swear, all you did was install a distro of linux many, many years ago, claimed that it sucked, went back to your Window$ pc and everything was back to normal. After that, you skim articles that deal with "bad things" happening to linux-related distros, completely obliterate the main points, propagate them and before you know it you have the ignorant "facts" that you spew from day to day.
No that's okay, go back to your Windows Vista PC and have your freedoms stricken away.
Do you even KNOW what you do when you accept that EULA? How you effectively "sign your soul" away. You have no control over your operating system when you don't own it. Yeah, you bought the copy of Window$. Does that mean you own it, NO! Microsoft can take it away whenever they see fit. You could be posting a blog against microsoft, and they could easily deactivate your copy "accidentally". Could you take legal actions? Yes, would they be successful? No, of course not, your the moron that signed the EULA.
Microsoft owns you.
Live in ignorance, until one day you'll discover you have less freedoms than you had thought.
You're a troll, you don't see me going into Microsoft-related articles exclaiming that their OS sucks ass, NO! Instead you purposely subscribe and post to articles like these, claiming that someone with different belief's than you are incorrect.
You're an idiot, a troll, and a very ignorant/arrogant person. Live in your false sense of security until it's gone.
I'd imagine that you're the kind of person who says that he believes in x religion and if anybody disagrees and says that another religion is good, they MUST be wrong.
Yes, I imagine you will try to put some kind of "spin" on this post, bending it to your own will, once again, calling another person incorrect or some motive to that degree.
You call patriotism on any linux supporter that posts a response, and you say that they are die-hard fans. Well, may I inquire as to what You are, then? I think it's quite evident that you are an ignorant microsoft supporter. And no, ignorance is not always synonymous with being a microsoft supporter.
I suspect even now you will explain how you never mentioned anything about microsoft. When in essence, you have...anyone that looks at your past posts will find that you are. Not often do you mention another operating system, namely, macos.
Predator10613th Oct 2008 -
"But even then X, KDE, Gnome, don't really render that well. You want to believe it does, you hypnotized yourself to believe it does, but the sad truth is it doesn't."
I hypnotized myself into thinking you were intelligent but alas, I was proven otherwise. Plenty of sad truthes to go around, eh? Your remarks of bias doesn't actually equate to any sort of sound practical research any more than booting up a live disc with the expectation it was going to bake you a cake. Vague personal accounts of your experience doesn't make it even remotely the gospel truth. From the sounds of your complaining, I'm amazed that you could manage a computer to obey with opening Notepad in Windows let alone click Next in an Ubuntu install process. Dependant on the needs of consumers, and myself, the linux distribution installation varies in a myriad of needs as does Windows, but from base to base, Ubuntu does take the cake on the install time. With very little research anyone can piece together a compatible box (and there's quite a selection to choose from) and have Ubuntu running within no time. In fact, on every single system I've had under various linux distributions, they have been completely supported out of the box with only one or two glaring issues (pulse audio on fedora was a pain). The post configuration of Windows would include setting up antivirus, spyware defense mechanisms, running the automatic updater to get to the latest service pack and latest microsoft attempt to fix the OS the last patch broke, grabbing the latest drivers for your perhiprials, etc, etc, just to perform some email and web browsing techniques.
Interestingly enough, I don't even need to perform an install on any machine under linux live cds just to do that. My point is that while there's always going to be downsides and upsides to any operating system, just because you can't seem to get your head out of Vista UI doesn't mean any other end user can't either.
Polite as always,
a MS Server 2003 Administrator.
Creslyn14th Oct 2008
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