WHATEVER, I CAN ALWAYS BEAT THAT DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR WITH PC MACHINE I MAKE.
Apple makes stylish sleek looking overpriced garbage. If they disagree, let them challenge me. Let them bring theirs $2000 machine, and give me $2000 dollars to build a PC just from parts I'll buy at New Egg. I would destroy them in every single benchmark. Who wants to bet????
Gallery: Apple adds Thunderbolt to 21.5-inch and 27-inch iMacs
by Andy Smith | May 3, 2011 10:34am PDT | Image 1 of 10
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Apple claims its new line of iMacs is up to 70 percent faster than before with the addition of Intel's Thunderbolt I/O, Intel Core i5 and Core i7 processors, and new AMD Radeon HD graphics.
The 21-inch iMac with an Intel Core i5 chip starts at $1,199 and the 27-inch iMac with an Intel Core i5 processor starts at $1,699.
Read more about the new computers from Rachel King's blog.
Just In
@FAUX_STAR
I'm sure Apple is shaking in their boots at the prospect of your challenge. LOL.
I'm sure Apple is shaking in their boots at the prospect of your challenge. LOL.
@offthewall
I wondering how he will make an all-in-one wonder machine and then how he will legally install OSX given that it is against the licensing conditions.
I wondering how he will make an all-in-one wonder machine and then how he will legally install OSX given that it is against the licensing conditions.
Looking at the spec sheet, it appears that Apple's tipping point is on the horizon.
If you add up a $350 motherboard (including Thunderbolt and 4Gb RAM), a $200 CPU, a $200 21.5" monitor, a $150 500Gb hard disk and all other stuff, you get a BoM of roughly $950. That, for a $1200 price tag... is not what Apple used to charge.
If you add up a $350 motherboard (including Thunderbolt and 4Gb RAM), a $200 CPU, a $200 21.5" monitor, a $150 500Gb hard disk and all other stuff, you get a BoM of roughly $950. That, for a $1200 price tag... is not what Apple used to charge.
@offthewall LOL!
@FAUX_STAR
And how will your $2K machine look and feel???
A mini scrape yard...
And how will your $2K machine look and feel???
A mini scrape yard...
@FAUX_STAR Have fun in your Mother's basement tinkering together your super-duper-blooper machine.
@thofts
Good thing he won't have to show it to anyone so it's all the same to him.
Good thing he won't have to show it to anyone so it's all the same to him.
@FAUX_STAR
You could be right, sure. Will your benchmarks also include an SPL of 24DBa @1m at load so I can run it in my studio? And can I run some form of Unix along with the drivers I need for my sound cards?
You could be right, sure. Will your benchmarks also include an SPL of 24DBa @1m at load so I can run it in my studio? And can I run some form of Unix along with the drivers I need for my sound cards?
@davesheremata
It's amazing how almost everyone was trying to ridicule me here, talking about style, design, apple "service" etc.
I was talking sheer performance for the dollar. Not about looks or design or service. BTW, I'll provide better service to myself and my own product than any other outside service. I guess if I knew how to make it, I should know how to fix it. If you're not into all of this -fine... then you need one. I understand. But again, even people from Apple know that $ for $ Apple will provide lesser performance in comparisson to home built 'high end' PC.
PS
I have 3 apple machines, 2 Laptops (Toshiba and Compaq) and 2 High end PCs I made myself (components in thousands of $$$)
Apple simply sucks, every update causes more troubles, and your "service" is clueless. Very few well informed people there. Compaq is the worst and complete garbage that barely runs, while Toshiba is slowly dying and it already had motherboard and CD rom replaced by service within the first 6 months. The only thing that works super powerful, handling PSCS5 as well as CUBASE, ROLAND KEYBOARD, and yes professional sound cards - super flawlesly - is what I've made myself. Cheers.
It's amazing how almost everyone was trying to ridicule me here, talking about style, design, apple "service" etc.
I was talking sheer performance for the dollar. Not about looks or design or service. BTW, I'll provide better service to myself and my own product than any other outside service. I guess if I knew how to make it, I should know how to fix it. If you're not into all of this -fine... then you need one. I understand. But again, even people from Apple know that $ for $ Apple will provide lesser performance in comparisson to home built 'high end' PC.
PS
I have 3 apple machines, 2 Laptops (Toshiba and Compaq) and 2 High end PCs I made myself (components in thousands of $$$)
Apple simply sucks, every update causes more troubles, and your "service" is clueless. Very few well informed people there. Compaq is the worst and complete garbage that barely runs, while Toshiba is slowly dying and it already had motherboard and CD rom replaced by service within the first 6 months. The only thing that works super powerful, handling PSCS5 as well as CUBASE, ROLAND KEYBOARD, and yes professional sound cards - super flawlesly - is what I've made myself. Cheers.
@davesheremata
HMMM, Let me answer this way. My Latest machine is just a dual core, running stable every single day @ 3.85 Hz, no over heating, no noise nothing, Oil cooled. It has 8 GB or ram @1666, and between 2 hardrives 1.5 TB of space. Also Radeon Video card that cost as 1/2 of that iMac. Another 1/2 is in 2 sound cards.
What do you think, would it work???
I feel sorry for you and your statement, but this thing will blow away your imac, while iMac will just perform blowing. Good luck to you, wonder how hard is to live brainwashed?
HMMM, Let me answer this way. My Latest machine is just a dual core, running stable every single day @ 3.85 Hz, no over heating, no noise nothing, Oil cooled. It has 8 GB or ram @1666, and between 2 hardrives 1.5 TB of space. Also Radeon Video card that cost as 1/2 of that iMac. Another 1/2 is in 2 sound cards.
What do you think, would it work???
I feel sorry for you and your statement, but this thing will blow away your imac, while iMac will just perform blowing. Good luck to you, wonder how hard is to live brainwashed?
@FAUX_STAR
So you have 3 Apple machines and Apple "simply sucks"?
Amazing! LOL...
You would think after the first one, that it would "simply suck", but no, you had to buy three before you found that one out.
Which makes your boasting about this, even more ridiculous and lack credibility.
So you have 3 Apple machines and Apple "simply sucks"?
Amazing! LOL...
You would think after the first one, that it would "simply suck", but no, you had to buy three before you found that one out.
Which makes your boasting about this, even more ridiculous and lack credibility.
@FAUX_STAR
Don't forget to factor in the time you spend building it and the time you spend screwing around trying to get Mac OS working properly on it.
If you're not planning on running Mac OS, then your argument is irrelevant.
If you're a tinkerer whose time isn't valuable, you don't count on your machine for your livelihood, and the aesthetic appeal of apple's hardware isn't important to you then yes, a hackintosh might make a little more sense.
But with the fit and finish, reliability and service that Apple provides, the dollar argument never really adds up.
I say once you get your parts delivered and your machine up and running, I'll have gotten a couple of weeks worth of work done. Then we can run through some mission critical, no room for error exercises and see whose machine chokes first. If it happens to be mine, I'll get it replaced or repaired and be on my way.
Don't forget to factor in the time you spend building it and the time you spend screwing around trying to get Mac OS working properly on it.
If you're not planning on running Mac OS, then your argument is irrelevant.
If you're a tinkerer whose time isn't valuable, you don't count on your machine for your livelihood, and the aesthetic appeal of apple's hardware isn't important to you then yes, a hackintosh might make a little more sense.
But with the fit and finish, reliability and service that Apple provides, the dollar argument never really adds up.
I say once you get your parts delivered and your machine up and running, I'll have gotten a couple of weeks worth of work done. Then we can run through some mission critical, no room for error exercises and see whose machine chokes first. If it happens to be mine, I'll get it replaced or repaired and be on my way.
@fartlocker
Since his time is worth nothing and he enjoys the tinkering, he needn't factor that in as a cost. I used to enjoy tinkering myself until I got tired of it. So let him brag.
Since his time is worth nothing and he enjoys the tinkering, he needn't factor that in as a cost. I used to enjoy tinkering myself until I got tired of it. So let him brag.
@fartlocker
1 day to make it, 1 day to fix any potential bugs
1 day to make it, 1 day to fix any potential bugs
You know, it's unknowledgable fanboys like you that happily jump off cliffs like lemmings every single day. Apple's differentiating feature --and what makes it such a strong product for a significant percentage of the market-- is that the entire machine is engineered together. The OS doesn't have needless hooks and extensions for hardware that may or may not be present. The hardware is engineered with the entire system, support, and stability in mind: not expansion.
Believe it or not, there IS a place in the market for both platforms. As a software developer, I'm a PC user all day long. But for my home PC, where I just want things to work seamlessly and be fun to use (and not constantly having to worry about malware, viruses, and inane security updates that break compatability), I'm a mac user all night long.
The only reason I can see for you writing here at all is that you probably wasted your money: spent your $2000, got BSOD'd on the 3rd boot, and lost a couple days of your life fixing your homebrew PC, all for the dubious glory of having ~maybe~ or or two more fps in your shooter, or shaving 0.75 seconds off the time Premiere loads up.
Yeah, have fun with that. The rest of us are living life.
Believe it or not, there IS a place in the market for both platforms. As a software developer, I'm a PC user all day long. But for my home PC, where I just want things to work seamlessly and be fun to use (and not constantly having to worry about malware, viruses, and inane security updates that break compatability), I'm a mac user all night long.
The only reason I can see for you writing here at all is that you probably wasted your money: spent your $2000, got BSOD'd on the 3rd boot, and lost a couple days of your life fixing your homebrew PC, all for the dubious glory of having ~maybe~ or or two more fps in your shooter, or shaving 0.75 seconds off the time Premiere loads up.
Yeah, have fun with that. The rest of us are living life.
@FAUX_STAR
Can you build OS X and iLife too?
Can you build OS X and iLife too?
@FAUX_STAR
I have my own home-built PC that I created from parts I got at Newegg, but I also own a few Macs as well. If you are talking performance vs price, you must also factor in screen resolution. The 27" monitor in the iMac has a resolution of 2560 x 1440 pixels, and it is not a cheap monitor (many graphic artists use iMacs for graphic reproduction). You go into any Best Buy and I bet the brightest and most color accurate monitors there will probably be the ones on the iMacs. The cheapest 27" monitor with that resolution (not even considering color accuracy) on Newegg will alone set you back $850. Add to that the factor that Newegg doesn't yet sell motherboards with Thunderbolt ports (does anybody besides Apple?) and your comparison starts to fall short. In order to beat the iMac's performance possibilities of connecting to an external disk array via Thunderbolt you would probably have to go to fiberchannel on your homebuilt PC. My brother told me he saw a demo of a Macbook Pro playing 8 uncompressed 1080p videos simultaneously with a raid array hooked up through Thunderbolt. When factoring in the cost of engineering all of this into a whisper-quiet computer that's almost the size of the computer monitor itself, I have to say that $2000 is a fair price. Sure you or I could build a PC that has faster processors, more memory and better graphics for less than $2000 and it might be more useful for your particular situation. But you have to admit that for what the iMac is, it is a reasonable price. Definitely not overpriced garbage.
Having said that, if you order your iMac from Apple with upgrades, that is where I see they really do gouge you. I've always ordered the base model they offered in a certain line and did the memory and hard drive upgrades myself. For example, upgrading from 4GB to 16GB on the $2000 model adds an additional $600.00 to the price on the Apple store. I can get 16GB of RAM for that iMac at OWC for just over $200. If you wanted to argue that they were overpriced on their upgrades, I would totally agree.
But of course, as others have said here, cost of labour is not being factored in with these arguments.
I have my own home-built PC that I created from parts I got at Newegg, but I also own a few Macs as well. If you are talking performance vs price, you must also factor in screen resolution. The 27" monitor in the iMac has a resolution of 2560 x 1440 pixels, and it is not a cheap monitor (many graphic artists use iMacs for graphic reproduction). You go into any Best Buy and I bet the brightest and most color accurate monitors there will probably be the ones on the iMacs. The cheapest 27" monitor with that resolution (not even considering color accuracy) on Newegg will alone set you back $850. Add to that the factor that Newegg doesn't yet sell motherboards with Thunderbolt ports (does anybody besides Apple?) and your comparison starts to fall short. In order to beat the iMac's performance possibilities of connecting to an external disk array via Thunderbolt you would probably have to go to fiberchannel on your homebuilt PC. My brother told me he saw a demo of a Macbook Pro playing 8 uncompressed 1080p videos simultaneously with a raid array hooked up through Thunderbolt. When factoring in the cost of engineering all of this into a whisper-quiet computer that's almost the size of the computer monitor itself, I have to say that $2000 is a fair price. Sure you or I could build a PC that has faster processors, more memory and better graphics for less than $2000 and it might be more useful for your particular situation. But you have to admit that for what the iMac is, it is a reasonable price. Definitely not overpriced garbage.
Having said that, if you order your iMac from Apple with upgrades, that is where I see they really do gouge you. I've always ordered the base model they offered in a certain line and did the memory and hard drive upgrades myself. For example, upgrading from 4GB to 16GB on the $2000 model adds an additional $600.00 to the price on the Apple store. I can get 16GB of RAM for that iMac at OWC for just over $200. If you wanted to argue that they were overpriced on their upgrades, I would totally agree.
But of course, as others have said here, cost of labour is not being factored in with these arguments.
@FAUX_STAR ... care about what you are going to buy and build? You have it right. I can build just as fast if not faster machine for less than what Apple can, the difference is, you are doing it for yourself, not for profit. Do you have a factory full of workers to pay? a R&D department writing new drivers, creating new modules for an OS to run on top of said hardware? Are you providing expert help to those who buy your products? And do you have Shareholders who expect dividends?
The obvious answer is no to all of those questions. People buy machines from Apple and other OEM's because either they can't or don't want to build their own.
So I guess the challenge lies with you. Develop your own OS, Software, Drivers, and all the other technologies that go into it, and then tell me how much it costs you to pump out your first machine.
The obvious answer is no to all of those questions. People buy machines from Apple and other OEM's because either they can't or don't want to build their own.
So I guess the challenge lies with you. Develop your own OS, Software, Drivers, and all the other technologies that go into it, and then tell me how much it costs you to pump out your first machine.
@FAUX_STAR
Surely you can.
However, have you ever heard of something being worth more than just the sum of its parts?
Surely you can.
However, have you ever heard of something being worth more than just the sum of its parts?
@FAUX_STAR
"Sorry for your statement"
"Good luck to you, wonder how hard is to live brainwashed?"
My statement was "You're probably right." - and then I asked a couple of questions. Thank you kindly for the answer to my question, albeit in a roundabout way. I haven't looked into cooling systems for a while. I'd look further into, but I'm just not into running windows outside of a VM - I'm more of a linux guy.
You sure do make a lot of assumptions about me in your response. Is it because I like something that you hate? I have no time for fanboi/hater banter, let alone to build my own machines. I used to build ~30 a day over 20 years ago, and frankly, it bores me. I'm glad you enjoy it. I also hope that one day few hundred bucks this way or that way is no skin off your butt. I'm going to make an assumtion too: I think your employment opportunities will blossom with a better attitude.
"Sorry for your statement"
"Good luck to you, wonder how hard is to live brainwashed?"
My statement was "You're probably right." - and then I asked a couple of questions. Thank you kindly for the answer to my question, albeit in a roundabout way. I haven't looked into cooling systems for a while. I'd look further into, but I'm just not into running windows outside of a VM - I'm more of a linux guy.
You sure do make a lot of assumptions about me in your response. Is it because I like something that you hate? I have no time for fanboi/hater banter, let alone to build my own machines. I used to build ~30 a day over 20 years ago, and frankly, it bores me. I'm glad you enjoy it. I also hope that one day few hundred bucks this way or that way is no skin off your butt. I'm going to make an assumtion too: I think your employment opportunities will blossom with a better attitude.
"@fartlocker
1 day to make it, 1 day to fix any potential bugs
FAUX_STAR"
It must be nice having so much time - but it's just not worth it to me.
1 day to make it, 1 day to fix any potential bugs
FAUX_STAR"
It must be nice having so much time - but it's just not worth it to me.
Build a multi-billion dollar industry like Apple and then maybe someone will be impressed... Until then Zzzzzzzz
@FAUX_STAR
@FAUX_STAR
@FAUX_STAR
I agree with you, but you should realize by now that you're not a part of Apple's target demographic. A good metaphor is the clothing industry. Most of it's made in the same sweatshops out of the same materials, but some of it is really affordable and some is ridiculously expensive. The same applies to computer hardware. It's all about branding. If Apple lowered it's prices it would lose it's luster.
I agree with you, but you should realize by now that you're not a part of Apple's target demographic. A good metaphor is the clothing industry. Most of it's made in the same sweatshops out of the same materials, but some of it is really affordable and some is ridiculously expensive. The same applies to computer hardware. It's all about branding. If Apple lowered it's prices it would lose it's luster.
@brettlyian@... Ha, good analogy.
I have been waiting for the new iMac and I have already ordered one. There are some important differences between iMac's and PC's running Windows or Linux and they are not all about processing speed. The Apple operating system continues to be easy to use, robust and secure and that is why I stick with Apple. As a person who used to use Unix in my work I also appreciate that the Apple os is certified for Unix.
All this back and forth about who has the best computer has made us loose focus as to the main point of this article. Apple has added an Verizon Android Thunderbolt to their iMacs! YAY!!
@wolffie0603
Thanks for staying focused!
Thanks for staying focused!
ITs a matter of style to cost. Macs typically (by preference) have a shorter life span then a PC. And changing out components carries an incredibly higher cost. Its ironic that Mac was launched in 84' as the break the mold of the robots... yes we want our own Max styled robot devotees 
@Rhone101
"ITs a matter of style to cost. Macs typically (by preference) have a shorter life span then a PC."
Rubbish! Where is you research and supporting evidence. Just saying it does not make it true.
"ITs a matter of style to cost. Macs typically (by preference) have a shorter life span then a PC."
Rubbish! Where is you research and supporting evidence. Just saying it does not make it true.
Its always been about style to cost to workflow. Macs have class and style, but carry an incredibly higher cost up front and for peripherals (forget about components). Macs have a shorter lifespan (by choice, marketing and design). Its Ironic that Mac was launched as the "Dont be a robot, be unique" in 84' .... just be our more stylish sleek devotee . (its the same)
. (its the same) 
What happened to the robust, secure, Sandy Bridge processors!
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
I don't now what Rhone101 means by macs having a shorter life span. I have 4 macs running, the newest is 2 yrs old (OS 10.6), and the oldest is a pre-2000 iMac running 0S 10.4. Just try to get a pre-2000 PC to even boot up, let alone be useable.
No one. Exactly! That's what I thought.
Cause I am right....
Cause I am right....
It's amazing how almost everyone was trying to ridicule me here, talking about style, design, apple "service" etc.
I was talking sheer performance for the dollar. Not about looks or design or service. BTW, I'll provide better service to myself and my own product than any other outside service. I guess if I knew how to make it, I should know how to fix it. If you're not into all of this -fine... then you need one. I understand. But again, even people from Apple know that $ for $ Apple will provide lesser performance in comparisson to home built 'high end' PC.
PS
I have 3 apple machines, 2 Laptops (Toshiba and Compaq) and 2 High end PCs I made myself (components in thousands of $$$)
Apple simply sucks, every update causes more troubles, and your "service" is clueless. Very few well informed people there. Compaq is the worst and complete garbage that barely runs, while Toshiba is slowly dying and it already had motherboard and CD rom replaced by service within the first 6 months. The only thing that works super powerful, handling PSCS5 as well as CUBASE, ROLAND KEYBOARD, and yes professional sound cards - super flawlesly - is what I've made myself. Cheers.
I was talking sheer performance for the dollar. Not about looks or design or service. BTW, I'll provide better service to myself and my own product than any other outside service. I guess if I knew how to make it, I should know how to fix it. If you're not into all of this -fine... then you need one. I understand. But again, even people from Apple know that $ for $ Apple will provide lesser performance in comparisson to home built 'high end' PC.
PS
I have 3 apple machines, 2 Laptops (Toshiba and Compaq) and 2 High end PCs I made myself (components in thousands of $$$)
Apple simply sucks, every update causes more troubles, and your "service" is clueless. Very few well informed people there. Compaq is the worst and complete garbage that barely runs, while Toshiba is slowly dying and it already had motherboard and CD rom replaced by service within the first 6 months. The only thing that works super powerful, handling PSCS5 as well as CUBASE, ROLAND KEYBOARD, and yes professional sound cards - super flawlesly - is what I've made myself. Cheers.
@FAUX_STAR
FAUX, all faux!
FAUX, all faux!
Why the ravenous attacks on faux_star? If the "hey look how great I am" angle irks you then try switching to the "Apple is overpriced" angle. A good point is being made here. With the economies of scale a company the size of Apple commands and the factory lines mass-producing their products, SURELY they can go lower and still have solid profit margins?! However, there is another "reality" at play here. The market seems to have accepted higher prices for Apple products so they would be foolish business people to lower their prices. Expectations are a primal market pricing driving force. So everyone, including faux_star, consider that as well in your analysis.
@soulsail
True, cannot deny that.
Also, on the top of it Apple same as Oracle, might not have the best product out there but certainly has amazing business people running it, and in case of Oracle also killer sales people.
True, cannot deny that.
Also, on the top of it Apple same as Oracle, might not have the best product out there but certainly has amazing business people running it, and in case of Oracle also killer sales people.
Ford = PC, Apple = Lincoln
Chevy = PC, Apple = Cadillac
They both get you from A to B, but wouldnt you rather drive the Caddy? Cant put a value on something that just works when its supposed to...
Chevy = PC, Apple = Cadillac
They both get you from A to B, but wouldnt you rather drive the Caddy? Cant put a value on something that just works when its supposed to...
Interesting, if somewhat vicious, debate....I am working at this moment on a machine that I put together myself. As I knew almost nothing about building a computer when I began, there was a fairly steep learning curve, but doing the project itself was easy, fun, and instructive, my vacation as a geek. I built it three years ago, and I have a fast and stylish machine--a small, home-theater-ish case, absolutely silent (fanless video card), elegant. But: I've been running Ubuntu for four years, and that's why I'm thinking of changing to a Mac. I'm not, in fact, a geek, and you have to be with Ubuntu. Things don't work with Ubuntu--like wireless cards, Netflix streaming, Microsoft Silverlight....or, if there's a way to make it work, you have to go online and browse the forums to find a solution to your problem. That's not my idea of fun. I want a machine that allows me full access to the digital world of streamed content, music, etc. without forcing me to do anything at all on a command line. And I simply can't face a return to anything of Windows...so, while I will never be a true believer, I might convert....
lordy.. no one seems to be getting the point the original poster was making. He simply stated mac are overpriced and not as powerful as they should be. stop being a mac/pc fanboy and look at the facts.
@FAUX_STAR
Just like your user name, you have "FAUX" written all over your argument and claim.
Not everybody that likes or buys Apple is a "lemming that would jump off a cliff". People can identify with with a complete overall package and are paying for quality and beauty.
Besides having a great quality tool like Apple that help us make our lives easier, in the 1 day that it took you to build it and 1 day to fix bugs, we actually spent quality time with our family and friends.
Quantify that in your logic board!
Just like your user name, you have "FAUX" written all over your argument and claim.
Not everybody that likes or buys Apple is a "lemming that would jump off a cliff". People can identify with with a complete overall package and are paying for quality and beauty.
Besides having a great quality tool like Apple that help us make our lives easier, in the 1 day that it took you to build it and 1 day to fix bugs, we actually spent quality time with our family and friends.
Quantify that in your logic board!
Arrrggh! Haters go away please. This is a superior system designed for people who care about more that specs, gaming and Windows compatibility. There are plenty of people who need to use PC's for whatever reason so relax and sell your hobby system to them.
I have a 20" core 2 duo that I love for my design work and kids use. If I could afford and upgrade I would but will likely wait until I can buy it refurbished or used.
I have a 20" core 2 duo that I love for my design work and kids use. If I could afford and upgrade I would but will likely wait until I can buy it refurbished or used.
if they can make it thinner, i'll buy
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