Gallery: Apple Vista (a.k.a. 10.5.2)

by Jason O'Grady | May 4, 2008 5:43pm PDT | Image 1 of 7

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Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad.

1/7 - That's not a zebra-themed desktop picture. It's 10.5.2 after freaking out on a MacBook Pro.

See Jason O'Grady's Mac OS 10.5.2 = Apple Vista?

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crazy bad fringe cases..

Hobyx 9th May 2008

I'm glad my current machine/install isn't one of these fringe
cases. Such is the way with more complexity and bloat..

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Not everything is perfect, but pretty close

d0c_h0l1day 5th May 2008

Its obvious the macbook pro has some defective hardware. I been running 10.5.2 since its release and not once have I seen any of these error messages and I work my macbook pro pretty hard. Much harder then I could ever work a Windows based machine without a lockup.
I'm able to run two VMWare Fusion sessions, import a CD via iTunes, browse the web and compile an Excel Spreadsheet without a slow down. With Windows, I would of received a blue screen or at minimum a lockup after launching one VMWare session.
Recently I spilled a full cup of coffee all over my Macbook Pro while working. Once I was able to kick start my heart again I became a religious man and prayed it would be okay. Left it overnight on its side and in the morning that beauty fired up with not one issue. QUALITY, RELIABILITY and cutting edge is what I think of when someone mentions Apple versus when someone mentions Windows I think UNRELIABLE, CHEAPEST BIDDER, CRAP, BLUE SCREEN, PAPERWEIGHT are the words that come in mind. happy

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really....

redtrain65 6th May 2008

Everyone has a different experience. Have had a gateway PC running Windows XP since 2001 without ANY problems at all. Has a ton of different programs and runs flawlessly. New Vista PC runs fine.

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What about 2000 Pro?

GrizzledGeezer 6th May 2008

I've been running W2K on an Asus P4T since fall of 2001, without any problems * -- except for the strange "collapse" of the operating system about four years ago. (I was fully backed up, so there was no ultimate problem.)

It seems that "some" operating systems have problems with "some" hardware. One would not expect this from an Apple OS.

* And continue to expect doing so, until something significantly better comes along, or major hardware advances force a change. I'm a "power" user, a programmer/writer who runs a lot of heavy software.

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Why bother?

teflon_111 6th May 2008

>> I think UNRELIABLE, CHEAPEST BIDDER, CRAP, BLUE SCREEN, PAPERWEIGHT are the words that come in mind

Why bother posting this junk.
If you like Apples, then fine, use them.
But when you post this kind of stuff it just shows that you don't have any experience with decent Windows PCs. When I think of Windows I think Sub-?500 system which allows me to earn a very decent living as a programmer, working the machine very hard, all day every day, and without a crash in at least three or four years. (I can't actually remember the last time my PC crashed, but it wasn't the one I'm using now, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the one before that). Blue Screen - what's that? Oh, hang on, I remember, I think I saw one of those in 1997...

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And your point is?

marcovj 6th May 2008

So you are the world, are you?

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You're a muppet!

johnmckay 6th May 2008

I reformat video, edit audio quite succesfully without any of this **** on my Windows box. You'd best consider updating your idea of windows cos your opinion is way out of touch with planet earth!

So what: you rip a cd, do a bit of typing. And that religous streak sure paid off when you can browse the net and type into a spreadsheet at the same time. Must be those two vm sessions, 4 hands and two-faces me thinks.

ps I am considering a mac for video editing but stupid posts like this make me wonder if there's any point. Maybe I should just stick to what I've got rather than risk a big cash outlay given that you think XP is THAT bad, maybe Mac is jut the same as I've already got???

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

vze26wyc@... 6th May 2008

Have had no problems as of today.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

vze26wyc@... 6th May 2008

I have had not problems with 10.5.2 as of today. I do run
disk utility before and after any updates.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista (a.k.a. 10.5.2))

anggota@... 6th May 2008

I have macbook pro and running 10.5.2 just fine without any problem like yours, maybe your mbp defect??

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OSX = Windows 98

gigabot71 6th May 2008

From the once a day reboots to maintain performance to
the unexplained OS lockups to the occasional kernel panic,
OSX seems to be using 1990's OS technology and I can't
say I've had an experience like this since using Windows
98. It's slow (slower than Vista on equivalent hardware
anyway) and crash prone. Safari, it's built in browser,
crashes or locks up at least once a day. The fact that I
have to reboot it occasionally in order to maintain
adequate performance tells me the OS is not cleaning up
after apps very well. And certain actions seem to bog the
entire system down, even though performance monitor
still shows plenty of processor cycles to spare. I started
using a Mac almost a year ago and while some things are
great, overall I have to say they still seem behind to me in
every area other than marketing and design.

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I wonder if you ever bother to understand a few things

sergiovf@... 6th May 2008

I'll explain,
OS X is a GUI on top of a BSD kernel family type.
The Kernel boots and you can still do "Cmd+S" and stop
the GUI from booting. At this point you have the kernel
(black screen) and a unix prompt. The prompt itself will
tell you what to type now. > fsck -fy
There is really no real need normally to do this, but in your
case I would. HFS+/J means by default your "Leopard" is
journaled, which means in a crash it will not lose the HFS
hiearchical indexing of nodes, but your hard disk could
have bad unindexed nodes which need to be cleared.
When the prompt returns type > reboot.

The second thing you must do is do is once you get it to
boot cleanly don't surf right away, take your time doing
the Disk Utility (find it in the /Applications/Utilities folder.
and FIX the Permissions !!!! these are unix permissions that
when you do an Apple update on Apple software, what you
update does not install to the real uid (user id) of your
machine which means YOU. and this is no good, but a real
Unix/Mac person knows this.!!!
After you see how Disk Utility reports on the window
output panel how much it is fixing, you realize how come
it takes longer to boot and longer to work with.
At the Apple store, they charge you a $100.00 more or
less to do this . I just saved you from buying a freaking
Windows box, because it seems it is the only thing you
understand.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista (a.k.a. 10.5.2))

agracey 6th May 2008

My daughter just got her MAC Book Pro it has OS 10.5.2 and Vista installed. All I have seen on OS 10.5.2 is it is slow to load up and it has glitches while running. On the other hand when running Vista it boots up fast and runs flawlessly the entire time it is up and running. I think this shows the hardware is fine the software has some real problems and then there is the cost for all that ?pretty hardware?. In the days of under $1000.00 windows laptops I think Mac is going to lose a lot of diehard fans.

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I think this is the National Enquirer of the IT "press"

hdinin 6th May 2008

What do I think?

I think CNET is going through another of those cycles to which all the media are subject. When there's no news, they create news. This is the National Enquirer of IT.

This particular post is the two-headed baby, born with a full set of pointed teeth and yellow goat-like eyes, spawn of the devil and an extra-terrestrial [photos inside] of on-line, "what the hell, they're paying me anyway to produce any crap that comes into my head?" journalism, or what passes for it. Blog or no blog, this is purely unnecessary.

I've been using 10.5.2 since it was released, on two machines, a Mac Book Pro, and a Mac Pro, both with Intel multiple core processors. No problems whatsoever.

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Hardware Failure

iMouse 6th May 2008

These error messages are CLEARLY a result of hardware
failure, not a buggy operating system. These glitches are
the result of flaky RAM or a bad logic board. I can't believe
that a technology-based news company doesn't have
skilled IT staff that could look at this and instantly see a
trend.

I am personally running Leopard on 3 Macs (2 Intel and 1
PowerPC) and have yet to see a kernel panic, glitched
screen, or a failed OS installation. I also administer over
300 Macs (50 running Leopard at this time) and NONE
have experienced any of these issues.

Leopard has its battles to make it as rock-solid as Tiger,
but it isn't far off. The only issues we have experienced
are more or less the result of 3rd party applications and
new technologies such as Spaces. QuickLook is also a tad
buggy as the daemon sometimes crashes when quickly
switching around between your virtual desktops with
Spaces.

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I have severe Problems with my brandnew MacPro

sloer@... 6th May 2008

After waiting 2 months for my new MacPro ( far over 10'000 $, 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ) i plugged all those nice and stylish peaces together an powered up, while pushing the "D" Key ... to perform a Hardware-Diagnose ( Memory, first of all ) before installing the OS.

Unfortunately the memory test does not take 3 minutes as indicated ( it's not the extended test ! ), but it takes more than a full hour !

Calling the AppleSupport the nice Lady forces me to install the OS ! She knows that's necessary to pass the Hardware-Diagnose which is sitting in the PROM or so !!! It does not help that i try to convince here NOT to install the OS before the Hardware-Test is passing successfully.

So i install the OS. After several Crashes it's a success. But after Hours of hardly working to set Up Final Cut Studio 2 the System panics resp. the Final Cut Installation does nonsense.

Etc. etc. etc.

Finally AppleCare agrees to have a look to the brandnew 10'000 $ abortion. After several days, UPS or so pick up the system. When i try to check the actual State of Repair, the i get a feedback like "we have the machine, but we did not yet begun to try finding out if something is wrong". It was on april 21, when they got my brandnew 10'000 $ MacPro.

Hurray ! I have a 10'000 $ MacPro ! Apple talkes care of it, i'm shure !

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This does seem like a memory problem

sergiovf@... 6th May 2008

You run hardware diagnostics and it takes an hour, that
does not sound good. It sounds like one of the two
modules is not so good.
If your laptop came with the 10.5.1 originally installed, I
would just run Hdwe Diags on that. Not on the update !!!
No Mac ever comes without some version of the OS pre-
installed!! Setup sets up your uid (user id) and your
/Users/"" directory and hidden files. It also
configures your networking and "registers" your machine
at Apple.
There was/is no need for update before doing a Hdwe
Diags pressing the "D" when it "bongs".
You could do a /Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility.app and
FIX permissions. Before and after the 5.2 update. I would
do that. Disk Utility does NOT take an hour to fix
permissions. It is not hidden from you what is fixing, you
'll see the display on the display panel of that app.
But I still think you have RAM memory problems.
Once this is fixed, you should not have any more problems
and FCP should run just fine.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

f.grandoni@... 6th May 2008

iMouse is so obviously right (there is a hw failure in that mac) that it's incredible to see something like the O'Grady's report on the otherwise reputable ZDNet News.
BTW, I'm still running Tiger om my main machine, just because new releases (of anything!) always need to be tuned up; well, I cannot even recall the last time I needed to reboot my mac, which is mostly powered up (may be sleeping on week ends)

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Using a FLASH???

Vorpaladin 6th May 2008

Most amature photographers know better than to use a flash to take a picture of a computer screen. To make it even worse, the pictures were taken straight on to maximize the glare! Come on ZDNet; you can at least give us the illusion of professionalism can't you?

All it will cost you is a $20 tripod and 30 seconds to figure out how to turn off your camera's flash.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

akaralia 6th May 2008

I do believe you have a hardware problem and that Apple
should replace your Mac.
I did notice some minor problems especially with printing,
but I am not sure if it is the Canon or the Mac.
I can assure you mine runs under heavy load all the time- I
am a graphics designer and movie editor, and i only have
minor issues if I will not restart the machine 4 or 5 days.
Also I have to admit I have no major issues with Vista (on
another drive-boot camp install) except when I play games
for a long time and they crash due to bad memory
allocation ( a known problems with windows 32bit ), but
the OS never crashes.
The configuration is a Mac Pro with 2 x quad Intel at 2.8,
8gb Ram (Vista only uses 2gb) with 2x250gb HD on
software RAID stripped running OS and Apps a 500mb for
Docs and 160gb HD for Windows. The graphics card is the
NVIDIA 8800GT with 512MB. Wacom tablet, camera, mic,
printer, scanner, iphone keyboard and mouse function on
USB and one 500GB HD on firewire 400 and another 1TB
HD(raid) on firewire 800. Along with a Samsung 30''
display they can be called a hefty load for the OS not to
mention the Software on it. And I had never had this kind
of problems ever! Funny thing Mac is networking great
with my XP machine while I still did not figure how to make
Vista and Xp work together.

So I am quit sure it's a hardware problem and wish you
good luck with it!

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

sergiovf@... 6th May 2008

Sloer has a hdwe problem - RAM.
But I want you Mac guys to notice that Apple does not train
these people that we call "switchers" that they MUST use
the Disk Utility to fix FILESYSTEM permissions!!!
And indeed they need to be told that!!!
Specially the one that wrote = OSX=Windows98.

Every single person that I saw with a Mac at a local cafe in
Coral Gables Florida (affluent neighborhood) and I asked
them if it was their first Mac ever and they told me that it
is so, I told them USE DISK UTILITY, specially after any
APPLE udptate. And they give me a glared look that shows
they think I am speaking in Martian.

Windows !!!! live or die,, or better make $$$$
programming for it. but it is not for me.

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Sergio, it's nothing about FILESYSTEM permissions !

sloer@... 7th May 2008

Thank you for your good tips, but that's for shure NOT for my case !

When i push the "D" Key while booting, i can make the Apple Hardware Test WITHOUT ANY HARDDISK INSTALLED ( the Diagnose Routine must be somewhere in the Boot-ROM). So why should it be a FILESYSTEM permission problem ?

YES, i'm a "switcher" ( and from Switcherland ), but i'm used to test new Hardware BEFORE installing / activating a OS and BEFORE installing some other Software. What's bad about doeing so ?

YES, it's some kind of RAM problem on my brandnew MacPro. Maybe RAM, maybe one of the two RAM-Boards, maybe the Motherboard, maybe something else.

BUT definitively this has NOTHING to do with some specific version of the OS ( in my special case ).

OTHER people ( i think ) COULD become RAM-Problems WHEN UPGRADING TO A NEW OS VERSION ... for example if the new Kernel Version treats RAM-Access in a different fashion ( timings, ECC-faults, etc. ). Maybe the OLDER OS-Version was too relaxed to treat the RAM, and the NEWER Version just figures out problems that have been hidden for a long time.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

michaepr 6th May 2008

At Least Apples OS talks back.....most of the time it seems it gave a message as to what happened.
When was the last time any version of Windows did that???
All I ever get is the OS locks up....and I either have to attempt a CTL-ALT-DEL or if that doesnt work press the restart button... Seldom if ever does windows tell you what is wrong unless it an Explorer crash, which always tells you Explorer failed, says sorry, you are now going to lose everything and then tries desperately to phone home to mommy....and send god alone knows what data....

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista (a.k.a. 10.5.2))

Horus418 7th May 2008

Oops!! outstanding, design and technology working in pure harmony. Well at least that puts to bed the more reliable BS Apple pump out. Looks like the Apple got jucied, maybe they should call these problems Venturia inaequalis, Apple scab.
Apple has bugs let's hope they use organic methods to deal with them.

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Statistical significance?

Vorpaladin 7th May 2008

How many Macs did you test? Did you experience these problems on 1 Mac, or 10 Macs, or 100 Macs? Did you try different types of Macs to see if there was a correlation between failure rate and different classes of hardware? Did you try loading a different OS on the hardware to see if this altered the failure rate?

If you experienced crashes on exactly one machine, then your findings are meaningless. "Anecdotal evidence" is considered worthless in both science and law.

Assuming that the OS is the problem on a single instance of an Apple platform is quite a leap, and shows clearly that you have a bias against OSX. You certainly don't have enough evidence to declare that OS 10.5.2 behaves anything like Vista, or any other OS for that matter, in terms of failure rate.

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RE: Some snaps of what happens when 10.5.2 goes bad. (Gallery: Apple Vista

Teacee 7th May 2008

The Mac Pro Laptop must have the problem, yes there were some issues when leopard was first but to.5.2 have resolved a lot of these issues. And calling Leopard the Apple version of Vista is completely far from the truth. I upgraded from Apple 10.4 Tiger to Leopard 10.5 and there is a slight difference in the startup speed, Tiger was faster. And there are some computability issues with some older software, name my (Native Instruments komplete 3)
other that, Leopard has so many great new features its well worth the upgrade. I also run Windows XP On my Mac Pro 8 core Desktop, with boot camp and Parallels, which allows me to dual boot or run windows as an application in leopard. I have a 2.0 Dual core Notebook 4gb of ram running Vista Ultimate 64, which is very slow starting and shutting down, to many tasks running in the task manger, I would love to wipe the drive and install Windows Xp on the notebook if I used it daily, but since it has the media center I use my notebook as a hd tv I have a satellite box connected and I am able to record pause rewind programs. I would not recommend Vista, Windows xp is still my choice for Windows OS.