Reasons for ditching Windows for Ubuntu 10.04
by Zack Whittaker | August 20, 2010 11:50am PDT | Image 1 of 13
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In-built application marketplace
Windows 8 may well come with an in-built marketplace for seamless downloading and easy installation of verified applications, but Windows 8 isn't around yet. Ubuntu's software center has been around for years already and it makes finding applications for this strain of Linux incredibly simple.
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Just In
While Ubuntu does a pretty good job supporting Nvidia graphics, the rudimentary ATI support well and truly sucks.
@shollomon In 10.04, the drivers are much better. I use an ATI video card on my laptop; 8.04 was poor and I struggled a great deal (see the live blog).
All points are valid. My hope is that MS continues to have competition. I believe the Linux apps will get better as time goes on which will require MS to make theirs even better. The OS is the thing that gets a lot of people frustrated with MS. Don't think that Windows 7 won't start to run clunky too. Every single OS MS puts out does so.
Another thing to think about is the IT manager who goes through MS license true-up every year and gets that final number and then just about blows a gasket. It's after this that they start talking alternatives to huge M$ costs. It usually dies off and the status quo wins out. Eventually though, the people who control the purse strings are going to get fed up and more of this may creep into the workplace. Just my thoughts.
Another thing to think about is the IT manager who goes through MS license true-up every year and gets that final number and then just about blows a gasket. It's after this that they start talking alternatives to huge M$ costs. It usually dies off and the status quo wins out. Eventually though, the people who control the purse strings are going to get fed up and more of this may creep into the workplace. Just my thoughts.
So what you're saying is that I can get something that looks and feels kind-of sort-of like Windows, but with all kinds of lingering hardware compatibility problems? ...And "dodgy" support for Word docs when using WINE?
Wow, where do I sign up?!?
And for the record, in the real tech world -- that is, where people work for a living rather than going to college, surfing the web, or pecking away at their brilliant unfinished novel in a coffee shop -- everything is NOT in the browser.
Most people back here on earth still use real, client-side applications like oh, I don't know ... MS Office apps, Visual Studio (or Eclipse if you swing that way), database admin tools, Photoshop, etc., etc. Tragically old fashioned, I know, but true.
Wow, where do I sign up?!?
And for the record, in the real tech world -- that is, where people work for a living rather than going to college, surfing the web, or pecking away at their brilliant unfinished novel in a coffee shop -- everything is NOT in the browser.
Most people back here on earth still use real, client-side applications like oh, I don't know ... MS Office apps, Visual Studio (or Eclipse if you swing that way), database admin tools, Photoshop, etc., etc. Tragically old fashioned, I know, but true.
@Churlish
As far as I know there are apps in the linux world that produce things that apps in the windows world can use,and there are apps that can do the same tasks (sometimes better) that windows apps, for instance:
Oppen Office (if you want something compatible with ms office)
Gimp (Pretty good photoshop-like app)
PSPP (A good statistical app)
QGis (Pretty good Geographical Information System)
QCAD (Not a AutoCad substitute but you can do a lot with it)
And I can go on and on. I am a windows user (since the old msdos-win days), I am also a a linux user. I think your point is not valid. I hardly think that someone will use office, statistical, GIS, image edititing and CAD software, just for fun and not to make a living. I can accomplish the things I have to do at work with both OS's, I think, instead of jumping the wagon of "the useless linux" you should give it a try.
As far as I know there are apps in the linux world that produce things that apps in the windows world can use,and there are apps that can do the same tasks (sometimes better) that windows apps, for instance:
Oppen Office (if you want something compatible with ms office)
Gimp (Pretty good photoshop-like app)
PSPP (A good statistical app)
QGis (Pretty good Geographical Information System)
QCAD (Not a AutoCad substitute but you can do a lot with it)
And I can go on and on. I am a windows user (since the old msdos-win days), I am also a a linux user. I think your point is not valid. I hardly think that someone will use office, statistical, GIS, image edititing and CAD software, just for fun and not to make a living. I can accomplish the things I have to do at work with both OS's, I think, instead of jumping the wagon of "the useless linux" you should give it a try.
@antropoid
I just bought my girlfriend a Windows 7 netbook for $199 from Target. It has everything she needs/wants in a computer, and is super-reliable as well. None of the reasons cited comes close to persuading me to go another route. As a consumer, I would welcome another choice, but I agree with Churlish that Linux desktop is certainly not it at this point in time.
I just bought my girlfriend a Windows 7 netbook for $199 from Target. It has everything she needs/wants in a computer, and is super-reliable as well. None of the reasons cited comes close to persuading me to go another route. As a consumer, I would welcome another choice, but I agree with Churlish that Linux desktop is certainly not it at this point in time.
@antropoid
",and there are apps that can do the same tasks (sometimes better) that windows apps, for instance:"
"Sometimes" meaning "it's an outlier if it does it better than Windows."
There are some good apps, sure, but I think the average quality across the board is actually worse.
"And I can go on and on."
Please don't. Most of those apps are not as good as their Windows counterparts.
If you have to say something like "Not a AutoCad substitute but . . .," then frankly I don't want to hear about it. Most people who work in their industry want the best, not a cheap knockoff. Somebody who designs using CAD as a part of their job is more than willing to sink some money into getting AutoCAD.
And yes, people will often do that stuff at home as a hobby if they also do it at work. It's not unusual for people to have hobbies that are related to their day jobs. In fact, a lot of open source projects likely have roots in people doing it as a hobby.
" instead of jumping the wagon of 'the useless linux' you should give it a try."
I did. It's not that exciting, and it just makes it more difficult when I have to work with multiple OSes. It's just easier to use the same OS most people are already using.
",and there are apps that can do the same tasks (sometimes better) that windows apps, for instance:"
"Sometimes" meaning "it's an outlier if it does it better than Windows."
There are some good apps, sure, but I think the average quality across the board is actually worse.
"And I can go on and on."
Please don't. Most of those apps are not as good as their Windows counterparts.
If you have to say something like "Not a AutoCad substitute but . . .," then frankly I don't want to hear about it. Most people who work in their industry want the best, not a cheap knockoff. Somebody who designs using CAD as a part of their job is more than willing to sink some money into getting AutoCAD.
And yes, people will often do that stuff at home as a hobby if they also do it at work. It's not unusual for people to have hobbies that are related to their day jobs. In fact, a lot of open source projects likely have roots in people doing it as a hobby.
" instead of jumping the wagon of 'the useless linux' you should give it a try."
I did. It's not that exciting, and it just makes it more difficult when I have to work with multiple OSes. It's just easier to use the same OS most people are already using.
@Churlish For everything that cannot be directly emulated, on powerful enough hardware, you can simply either virtualize or RDP/VNC into another system that hosts the app you need. Check it out... I work as a state govt netadmin, on what was otherwise an all Windows Shop when I came onboard. Since then, thanks to a few developers & myself believing in the power of open source, we've made serious inroads with it there, and are now looking at virtualizing a huge part of our datacenter on Linux based technologies. Personally, I use Linux Mint v9 (based on Ubuntu 10.04) from a 16GB flash drive, and have Windows 7 Ultimate installed as the native OS on my assigned work laptop. My usage ratio is 95% Ubuntu / 5% Windows. Ubuntu is simply a safer, faster OS that works cleanly, is completely customizable, and yes... it's finally enterprise desktop ready. If it can't run it directly, it can emulate it or virtualize it. But don't take our word for it. Try it for yourself. But don't knock it before you've tried it.
Great to hear that. You can also use ThinServer to virtualize a completely remote desktop that have accelerated graphic, videos and sound using ThinServer WIN7 software
http://www.aikotech.com/thinserver.htm
@twist@...
http://www.aikotech.com/thinserver.htm
@twist@...
@Churlish Heh, I don't think Ubuntu running WINE is giving the best account of itself either. But don't let that fool you, there are plenty of "real work" applications that were actually compiled just for Linux. I did laugh at "database admin tools" - Linux is hardly short of those.
@Jeremy-UK In windows they're DataBase AdMin Tools.
Everyone --
I probably should have separated my statement about Ubuntu's hardware compatibility from my other statement about client apps/everything not running in the cloud.
I'll break out this response better.
OS choice
I regard OS choice as I do one's choice of religion or art, albeit much more trivial than either of the latter. Ultimately each person must decide what he or she believes (or disbelieves), just as each of us has a different set of music, movies, art, etc. that we love. In my mind, that's fine -- you believe and enjoy what you like; as long as you're not intruding on my right to do the same, we'll get along great. Even more so with something as trivial as an OS ... going ballistic over another person's choice of computer software is equivalent to punching someone for drinking Pepsi rather than Coke.
More concisely, if you love Ubuntu (or Linux distro XXXX, or Macs, or Windows, or PDP-frickin'-11s for that matter), knock yourself out.
I'm merely pointing out that despite the article's title, issues like spotty hardware compatibility and support for familiar applications do not recommend Ubuntu as an easy/obvious switch for most people.
Client vs. Cloud apps
Please note that I wasn't championing Windows/Microsoft apps over Linux-based/open-source equivalents. (See my previous points.) That's a separate argument, and one I'd rather not get involved in ... again, you use what works for you, and I'll use what works for me.
I was just taking issue with the slide proffering the frequently-made and always-annoying claim that "Everything's in the browser anyway." (In fairness, the author DOES qualify that with "most things" just after the header.) Still, it's ludicrous to believe that tasks now performed via client-side apps -- regardless of maker -- will all be replaced by web/cloud/browser-based applications in the foreseeable future.
For serious business environments, that's especially true: what business can afford to suspend operations for hours or days due to network outages, and what business is willing to trust its customers' personal data to "the cloud?" ...Not one that I want to do business with, that's for sure.
Even for home/personal use, why would I choose a slow, laggy, unpredictable web-based app over one that's installed locally and responds instantly? For some things, the trade-off might be unnoticeable, but for others -- like document/photo/video editing, code development, database administration, etc., locally installed applications beat the performance, features, and security of cloud apps hands down. Of course not everyone runs their own personal database in an organization; I'm just saying that for multiple reasons, companies are wise to maintain internal databases rather than farming them out to the cloud.
...And for the record, I'm not cloud.)
I probably should have separated my statement about Ubuntu's hardware compatibility from my other statement about client apps/everything not running in the cloud.
I'll break out this response better.
OS choice
I regard OS choice as I do one's choice of religion or art, albeit much more trivial than either of the latter. Ultimately each person must decide what he or she believes (or disbelieves), just as each of us has a different set of music, movies, art, etc. that we love. In my mind, that's fine -- you believe and enjoy what you like; as long as you're not intruding on my right to do the same, we'll get along great. Even more so with something as trivial as an OS ... going ballistic over another person's choice of computer software is equivalent to punching someone for drinking Pepsi rather than Coke.
More concisely, if you love Ubuntu (or Linux distro XXXX, or Macs, or Windows, or PDP-frickin'-11s for that matter), knock yourself out.
I'm merely pointing out that despite the article's title, issues like spotty hardware compatibility and support for familiar applications do not recommend Ubuntu as an easy/obvious switch for most people.
Client vs. Cloud apps
Please note that I wasn't championing Windows/Microsoft apps over Linux-based/open-source equivalents. (See my previous points.) That's a separate argument, and one I'd rather not get involved in ... again, you use what works for you, and I'll use what works for me.
I was just taking issue with the slide proffering the frequently-made and always-annoying claim that "Everything's in the browser anyway." (In fairness, the author DOES qualify that with "most things" just after the header.) Still, it's ludicrous to believe that tasks now performed via client-side apps -- regardless of maker -- will all be replaced by web/cloud/browser-based applications in the foreseeable future.
For serious business environments, that's especially true: what business can afford to suspend operations for hours or days due to network outages, and what business is willing to trust its customers' personal data to "the cloud?" ...Not one that I want to do business with, that's for sure.
Even for home/personal use, why would I choose a slow, laggy, unpredictable web-based app over one that's installed locally and responds instantly? For some things, the trade-off might be unnoticeable, but for others -- like document/photo/video editing, code development, database administration, etc., locally installed applications beat the performance, features, and security of cloud apps hands down. Of course not everyone runs their own personal database in an organization; I'm just saying that for multiple reasons, companies are wise to maintain internal databases rather than farming them out to the cloud.
...And for the record, I'm not cloud.)
@Churlish Funny you should mention not working well with some hardware. I can load Ubuntu on most any PC made this century. Can you tell me how many will load Vista or 7. MS is not very backwards compatible.
That's really not a bad thing though. I recondition older systems and load Linux on them, then give them to people who would otherwise not have a computer.
I think that if you want to show what is not to like about Ubuntu, that would be the last place I would go.
That's really not a bad thing though. I recondition older systems and load Linux on them, then give them to people who would otherwise not have a computer.
I think that if you want to show what is not to like about Ubuntu, that would be the last place I would go.
@Churlish Have you ever tried Ubuntu? I am an average person and I been using it since one year ago, I just recently Installed it on a brother in law?s Netbook and on my Sister?s Desktop and it meets their needs.
Hardwire wise I did not had any issue for both machines recognizing every piece of hardware they use. Even the OS (Win XP) in my sister?s computer was so ?damaged? that the computer could not connect to the Internet and it did not recognized an Epson printer she has. None of these problems I had when I installed Ubuntu.
Hardwire wise I did not had any issue for both machines recognizing every piece of hardware they use. Even the OS (Win XP) in my sister?s computer was so ?damaged? that the computer could not connect to the Internet and it did not recognized an Epson printer she has. None of these problems I had when I installed Ubuntu.
@Churlish I agree. I hate the cloud. I need apps that will work on my laptop when I'm in an internet free zone. And I will NOT upload my personal files and data to the cloud.
@Churlish Some people who do "real" work are on the web all the time too. Depends on what kind of work you do. Most of my work is web related, so naturally I am on the web all the time. The OS I use for those tasks is not critical.
I know that I spend more and more time on the web for all my work, although there are some key applications that are Windows apps that I use all the time. Although I use suites like Microsoft Office and OpenOffice for some things, I find I am using my Google Docs account a lot more for things that don't require a lot of fancy formating (i.e. if I am typesetting a manual or book, I use Microsoft Office, but if I am just typing up a simple document, I use Google Docs). I use Gmail and Google Apps for Domains for my e-mail, so no client application on the OS needed for that. Web design tools are available in Windows and Linux, so not a big deal.
Not everyone does the same things at work. So it depends on what you do for a living. In your real IT world, you need Windows, perhaps. At my old IT job, we were a Linux shop crunching terabytes of oil & gas exploration data. 90% of the PC's there were Linux or Solaris. Only the executives and the receptionist used Windows. LOL. In my current line of work, most of what I do is web based. Depends on where you work.
It's funny how people get snooty about their operating environments. The Linux guys think shops that run Windows are not "real" IT shops, and the Windows guys think that web-based apps are not "real" IT tech either. I gotta laugh. Depends on what you are trying to do and what you are familiar with.
I know that I spend more and more time on the web for all my work, although there are some key applications that are Windows apps that I use all the time. Although I use suites like Microsoft Office and OpenOffice for some things, I find I am using my Google Docs account a lot more for things that don't require a lot of fancy formating (i.e. if I am typesetting a manual or book, I use Microsoft Office, but if I am just typing up a simple document, I use Google Docs). I use Gmail and Google Apps for Domains for my e-mail, so no client application on the OS needed for that. Web design tools are available in Windows and Linux, so not a big deal.
Not everyone does the same things at work. So it depends on what you do for a living. In your real IT world, you need Windows, perhaps. At my old IT job, we were a Linux shop crunching terabytes of oil & gas exploration data. 90% of the PC's there were Linux or Solaris. Only the executives and the receptionist used Windows. LOL. In my current line of work, most of what I do is web based. Depends on where you work.
It's funny how people get snooty about their operating environments. The Linux guys think shops that run Windows are not "real" IT shops, and the Windows guys think that web-based apps are not "real" IT tech either. I gotta laugh. Depends on what you are trying to do and what you are familiar with.
@WisTex Why would anyone format/typeset a book in MS-Word?
You state that "in my old IT job, we were a Linux shop crunching terabytes of oil & gas exploration data. 90% of the PC's there were Linux or Solaris."
First of all, Solaris was on workstations, not PCs, and if you were only number crunching, the only reason Linux was in use was for the purpose of saving money, not superiority over Windows running in a DOS VM.
You would certainly not be crunching those numbers via a cloud, either.
You state that "in my old IT job, we were a Linux shop crunching terabytes of oil & gas exploration data. 90% of the PC's there were Linux or Solaris."
First of all, Solaris was on workstations, not PCs, and if you were only number crunching, the only reason Linux was in use was for the purpose of saving money, not superiority over Windows running in a DOS VM.
You would certainly not be crunching those numbers via a cloud, either.
Windows already has an app center -- it's called Google, Bing, Ask, etc. All you have to do to find an app is search for it and add "freeware" if you want it for free.
Also when they fix their issues with Broadcom wireless cards only then will I even consider using Ubuntu. What good is a laptop if you can't connect to the Internet.
Also when they fix their issues with Broadcom wireless cards only then will I even consider using Ubuntu. What good is a laptop if you can't connect to the Internet.
@statuskwo5 But these applications are not 100% guaranteed to work. You can buy software and it is not guaranteed to install or even run properly. Through the Ubuntu software center, you can install verified applications - as well as install Debian packages etc. through ordinary websites if they offer them.
@zwhittaker I got my middle son to shift to Linux for his portable -- he uses it as a part of an accomodation for a handicap, and so it travels with him constantly during the day. His take? "For some things, it's just fine. But, seriously, Dad: OpenOffice isn't Office. The GIMP is not Photoshop; in fact, it's not even a close approximation. GMail is not Outlook. I can make do, and will, but, no, it's not a replacement."
@probabilist If you want something closer to Outlook (it takes all sorts I suppose) then Evolution (which is default on Ubuntu) is far closer than GMail (though you can, and probably should reuse the GMail account).
I know a lot of people who'll say Office2007 isn't office (they mean they are totally lost in the new GUI). As for the GIMP, err, it's not bad you know. It's been a while since I used Photoshop (used to use it everyday) but I can't really think of anything you can't do in the GIMP (maybe if I spent longer...)
There are plenty of things I miss from Linux when I use Windows... (and not just vi)
I know a lot of people who'll say Office2007 isn't office (they mean they are totally lost in the new GUI). As for the GIMP, err, it's not bad you know. It's been a while since I used Photoshop (used to use it everyday) but I can't really think of anything you can't do in the GIMP (maybe if I spent longer...)
There are plenty of things I miss from Linux when I use Windows... (and not just vi)
@probabilist I totally agree. Your son is absolutely spot on. OpenOffice doesn't compare - and it's not the UI or the features, but the fact that the file formats are not properly compatible. He can save something in an Office format and send it to his lecturers etc., and it be totally mislodged in the process.
@zwhittaker I agree with probabilist. I have tried ubuntu and linux in its many incarnations and none have been easy to install or work as well as windows. It is a matter of choice, though.
@zwhittaker
@statuskwo5 My wife's laptop wouldn't connect till I installed 10.04. After doing the research, I found out, here Gateway laptop, had Intel Graphics built in. Who would have thought that Intel wouldn't give there code to open source. You almost have to think that they were in on the forcing PC makers to only market there products.
I like and use open office and many other applications on Ubuntu. The one application that has not been duplicated, to my knowledge, is MS-Access. Database yes but not without the coding. Access lets me build and modify applications quickly and easily. For heavy duty applications server side SQL with an Access front end does the trick.
@lars626 I have yet to see a duplicate of OneNote, either.
This article is a little misleading. Now I love Ubuntu I am typing this on Ubuntu. But to say you can run *any* Windows app in Wine is a flat out lie. You can run a lot of them but I always check the wine app database page to see how well something is supported before installing it. It is getting better though.
Also you fail to mention that your panel setup i Gnome is not the standard setup. You would have been better off showing off KDE if you were going to move the panels to the bottom. Or at least show a before and after in the page where you discuss panel customizations.
Also unless you are running a low end laptop or desktop most computers have either an ATI or nVidia video card which requires installing the proprietary driver. It is easy to do (in most cases) but is required. Apperently in Ubuntu 10.10 they will be adding the option to install it when installing from the CD.
Also you fail to mention that your panel setup i Gnome is not the standard setup. You would have been better off showing off KDE if you were going to move the panels to the bottom. Or at least show a before and after in the page where you discuss panel customizations.
Also unless you are running a low end laptop or desktop most computers have either an ATI or nVidia video card which requires installing the proprietary driver. It is easy to do (in most cases) but is required. Apperently in Ubuntu 10.10 they will be adding the option to install it when installing from the CD.
Its linux what can you say. A great server OS not the best desktop OS for novices. Even with the graphics. You cannot just run any windows app with wine. root and home directory access type of issues would drive someone like my Mom crazy. You'd have to make that simpler sort of in a windows UAC way.
@jimk_z jimk_z, re Linux OS's biggest obstacle toward getting mainstream users to switch from Windows, you hit the nail right on the head. Now, and for the foreseeable future, people will need to run Windows software in Linux and it needs to be seamless.
What would be great is if WINE and Ubuntu worked together like a seamless Windows emulator, where all you have to do to install MS Office seamlessly in Ubuntu is run the setup.exe on the DVD, and to run it, all you'd have to do is click the MS Word icon once you've installed it. (In other words, make Windows programs install and run natively in Ubuntu with the same ease with which they do it in Windows.) If Canonical could make that happen (at least as to the most widely used Windows programs), Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows becomes a MUCH easier sell. That's one of the biggest selling points that Mac has in its favor when it gets people to switch from Windows - being able to run Windows programs natively with ease in Mac OS X.
One key selling point that the Linux OS makers do not do a good enough job explaining to people is Linux's startup speed. The thing I hate the most about Windows (XP, 7, whatever) is how freaking long it takes to boot up and get onto the internet, check my Outlook email, fire up MS Office, or whatever. Ubuntu is up and running on my laptop in just a tick over 30 seconds, compared to a full three or four minutes for Windows. From hitting the power button to editing a document in Ubuntu takes about 60 seconds. In Windows, it's a 7-8 minute process. Ubuntu needs to do a better job of marketing its startup speed as compared to Windows' because this is a huge advantage.
Did I mention the security issues? Hands down Ubuntu wins. Eventually Linux OS will need a real antivirus/internet security program, but at the moment it isn't a big enough target of viruses and malware to need it. Windows, on the other hand, is like driving an armored Humvee through downtown Baghdad with all of the doors and windows wide open. Sure, there's some good protection there, but there are also some gaping holes and a lot of the people out there are going to be targeting you.
Then there's the fact that Ubuntu is FREE. Windows 7 costs a couple hundred bucks at retail. The current version of OpenOffice.org (also free) is essentially identical to MS Office 2003 (cost of about $400-500 per license), which is still widely used by thousands of businesses.
I also prefer OpenOffice.org's look and feel compared to the current MS Office 2007 and 2010. I hate the new look and feel of Office since 2007, and the fact that MS is using a proprietary document format (.docx), is going to cause real problems down the road. The open document format (.odf), which is an ISO/IEC international standard document format, continues to gain traction and never has compatibility issues. For all of their ubiquity, the .doc, .docx, and .wpd formats have some serious conversion issues with non-MS and non-WordPerfect programs. Anyone who has tried to convert .wpd documents for use in MS Word has seen how horribly mangled the original formatting can get. I have never seen any word processing program mangle an .odf file. This is important and should be a big selling point.
These are (or in the case of seamless windows emulation, would be) real reasons to ditch Windows 7 for Ubuntu. Unfortunately, the main killer feature here (seamless Windows emulation) does not yet exist.
What would be great is if WINE and Ubuntu worked together like a seamless Windows emulator, where all you have to do to install MS Office seamlessly in Ubuntu is run the setup.exe on the DVD, and to run it, all you'd have to do is click the MS Word icon once you've installed it. (In other words, make Windows programs install and run natively in Ubuntu with the same ease with which they do it in Windows.) If Canonical could make that happen (at least as to the most widely used Windows programs), Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows becomes a MUCH easier sell. That's one of the biggest selling points that Mac has in its favor when it gets people to switch from Windows - being able to run Windows programs natively with ease in Mac OS X.
One key selling point that the Linux OS makers do not do a good enough job explaining to people is Linux's startup speed. The thing I hate the most about Windows (XP, 7, whatever) is how freaking long it takes to boot up and get onto the internet, check my Outlook email, fire up MS Office, or whatever. Ubuntu is up and running on my laptop in just a tick over 30 seconds, compared to a full three or four minutes for Windows. From hitting the power button to editing a document in Ubuntu takes about 60 seconds. In Windows, it's a 7-8 minute process. Ubuntu needs to do a better job of marketing its startup speed as compared to Windows' because this is a huge advantage.
Did I mention the security issues? Hands down Ubuntu wins. Eventually Linux OS will need a real antivirus/internet security program, but at the moment it isn't a big enough target of viruses and malware to need it. Windows, on the other hand, is like driving an armored Humvee through downtown Baghdad with all of the doors and windows wide open. Sure, there's some good protection there, but there are also some gaping holes and a lot of the people out there are going to be targeting you.
Then there's the fact that Ubuntu is FREE. Windows 7 costs a couple hundred bucks at retail. The current version of OpenOffice.org (also free) is essentially identical to MS Office 2003 (cost of about $400-500 per license), which is still widely used by thousands of businesses.
I also prefer OpenOffice.org's look and feel compared to the current MS Office 2007 and 2010. I hate the new look and feel of Office since 2007, and the fact that MS is using a proprietary document format (.docx), is going to cause real problems down the road. The open document format (.odf), which is an ISO/IEC international standard document format, continues to gain traction and never has compatibility issues. For all of their ubiquity, the .doc, .docx, and .wpd formats have some serious conversion issues with non-MS and non-WordPerfect programs. Anyone who has tried to convert .wpd documents for use in MS Word has seen how horribly mangled the original formatting can get. I have never seen any word processing program mangle an .odf file. This is important and should be a big selling point.
These are (or in the case of seamless windows emulation, would be) real reasons to ditch Windows 7 for Ubuntu. Unfortunately, the main killer feature here (seamless Windows emulation) does not yet exist.
@sbonagof
As for seemless Windows integration: Looking back over time, the main reason for integration problems are intentional incompatibilities thrown in by Microsoft. This hasn't appeared to change since back in the DOS days, when the MS chant was, "Dos isn't done 'till Lotus won't run." Criticizing an OS because it won't run seemlessly with a company, who consistently throws in incompatibilities on purpose, isn't providing a full picture. I use several OS's. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I find I it takes MUCH more time keeping Windows updated, and free of security problems, than the other OS's combined.
As for seemless Windows integration: Looking back over time, the main reason for integration problems are intentional incompatibilities thrown in by Microsoft. This hasn't appeared to change since back in the DOS days, when the MS chant was, "Dos isn't done 'till Lotus won't run." Criticizing an OS because it won't run seemlessly with a company, who consistently throws in incompatibilities on purpose, isn't providing a full picture. I use several OS's. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I find I it takes MUCH more time keeping Windows updated, and free of security problems, than the other OS's combined.
@sbonagof
What sort of system do you have that takes 7-8 mins to boot to a useable desktop? My "antique" (read 4+ yr old system) boots Windows 7 from a cold start in approximately 1 min. Maybe 1 min 15 if there's an update that needs to be installed. That's including a stop at the password screen. Even my 5 yr old laptop boots XP in about 2 mins.
Secondly... There are many MANY ways to get Windows 7 for far less than a "couple of hundred bucks". If all you need is Home Premium, the upgrade copy would set you back all of $129 - and that's RETAIL. You can also check out ebay and find copies dirt cheap ALL day long.
Granted, that's not FREE... Oh well.. You DO get what you pay for.
OpenOffice is FAR from being equal in function to Office 2003. My last foray into OOo didn't work out too well. One of my most used docs - a Word document that is mostly one big table - didn't come out looking like it should. The fonts weren't quite right. Cell heights were way off. And the document was now spread across two pages. Now, I could have spent an hour or two tweaking the document to make it look half way decent - but that would have been a waste of time and energy. NONE of my clients use OOo.
Conversely, I can open the same document in ANY version of Word from Word 97 all the way up to Word 2010 - and regardless of the version of Office, it will look and print exactly the same.
Oddly enough, I have had occasion to open the same document in WordPerfect once. Oddly enough, it rendered correctly there as well.
For what it's worth... The new DOCX format (as well as other Office 2007/2010 apps) is nothing more than a standard ZIP file. Inside, you'll find a folder for graphics/photos, one for the text body and one for the formatting. The formatting is written up in XML. Microsoft published the document format back in 2007 when Office 12 (2007) was in beta.
What sort of system do you have that takes 7-8 mins to boot to a useable desktop? My "antique" (read 4+ yr old system) boots Windows 7 from a cold start in approximately 1 min. Maybe 1 min 15 if there's an update that needs to be installed. That's including a stop at the password screen. Even my 5 yr old laptop boots XP in about 2 mins.
Secondly... There are many MANY ways to get Windows 7 for far less than a "couple of hundred bucks". If all you need is Home Premium, the upgrade copy would set you back all of $129 - and that's RETAIL. You can also check out ebay and find copies dirt cheap ALL day long.
Granted, that's not FREE... Oh well.. You DO get what you pay for.
OpenOffice is FAR from being equal in function to Office 2003. My last foray into OOo didn't work out too well. One of my most used docs - a Word document that is mostly one big table - didn't come out looking like it should. The fonts weren't quite right. Cell heights were way off. And the document was now spread across two pages. Now, I could have spent an hour or two tweaking the document to make it look half way decent - but that would have been a waste of time and energy. NONE of my clients use OOo.
Conversely, I can open the same document in ANY version of Word from Word 97 all the way up to Word 2010 - and regardless of the version of Office, it will look and print exactly the same.
Oddly enough, I have had occasion to open the same document in WordPerfect once. Oddly enough, it rendered correctly there as well.
For what it's worth... The new DOCX format (as well as other Office 2007/2010 apps) is nothing more than a standard ZIP file. Inside, you'll find a folder for graphics/photos, one for the text body and one for the formatting. The formatting is written up in XML. Microsoft published the document format back in 2007 when Office 12 (2007) was in beta.
@jimk_z
Consider using Ubuntu Netbook. Since I started using it, I've liked it. I've dual booted my netbook. The menus are simple, and it doesn't need antivirus to run, so it's faster and the battery lasts longer. What I find drives my Mom crazy is viruses and worms, not Linux.
Consider using Ubuntu Netbook. Since I started using it, I've liked it. I've dual booted my netbook. The menus are simple, and it doesn't need antivirus to run, so it's faster and the battery lasts longer. What I find drives my Mom crazy is viruses and worms, not Linux.
@boguscomputer I installed Netbook edition onto my friends' netbook thinking it'd be better; turned out it wasn't actually. It'll work for some, sure - but installing the full desktop edition onto his netbook, he still gets all the same features and graphical goodness that I got on my high-end spec laptop!
@jimk_z Err, why - because it wants you to type your password rather than just click an "OK" button?! Ubuntu asks for this FAR less often than Vista (Windows 7 has far greater granularity with UAC, so it doesn't apply really). The "home" directory is no different to who Windows puts user's home directory off the root of the boot volume.
I agree there are plenty of Windows apps that don't run under WINE or are very flakey (which is probably worse). But a lot of people don't actually need to run Windows apps (they just **think** they do).
I think the mileage for your Mom is far more likely to vary by how much exposure she's had to Windows - if it's a lot, well not finding a "C:" drive can be a bit of a shock. But give users some nice new programs and they adapt pretty quickly. Ubuntu 10.04 is pretty easy.
Of course, if the users needs (or wants) to run some Windows app pretty much all the time - well there is no point moving them off Windows, the app was designed for that, it'll run at least as well there as anywhere else.
I agree there are plenty of Windows apps that don't run under WINE or are very flakey (which is probably worse). But a lot of people don't actually need to run Windows apps (they just **think** they do).
I think the mileage for your Mom is far more likely to vary by how much exposure she's had to Windows - if it's a lot, well not finding a "C:" drive can be a bit of a shock. But give users some nice new programs and they adapt pretty quickly. Ubuntu 10.04 is pretty easy.
Of course, if the users needs (or wants) to run some Windows app pretty much all the time - well there is no point moving them off Windows, the app was designed for that, it'll run at least as well there as anywhere else.
"In-built application marketplace"
It's a plus, if done right. Although I've never really been that impressed with the selection. How many text editors do you need, really?
"Huge range of pre-installed applications"
Not that it's terribly difficult to install apps on any OS. Usually the OEMs do a decent job of including the basics, even if they get a bit zealous with the junk.
A lack of apps can be fixed easily, though. You only really need to do it once.
"Greater user-interface and graphics efficiency"
I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced. Windows 7 is very efficient when it comes to graphics.
"Backgrounds and emblems"
*yawn*, not the most terribly exciting feature. I seem to recall you can do it, though? If not, I'm sure there's a third party app for that.
"Windows applications run on WINE"
Windows applications run on Windows too =).
Not an advantage, and probably still has a bunch of bugs. Or it did last time I tried it.
"Everything's in the browser anyway"
IMO that old, tired argument is still bull. But even if true, it's not like Ubuntu really has any advantage, since browsers run fine in Windows. Chrome is very much a dream on Windows 7, in fact. And have you even tried the IE9 tech preview?
"Customisability beyond a Windows user's dreams"
Mostly useless, and pretty complex. And they renamed half the keys on the keyboard too.
If you really want them, though, there's third party apps for customization.
"Multi-touch is on the way; single touch still works well"
Is this really called "Reasons for ditching Windows for Ubuntu 10.04"?
No, seriously. Windows 7 already has it.
"Ubuntu One: In-built cloud synchronisation"
I dunno if it will be built into Windows at some point, but Windows Live Sync fits the bill nicely.
Dropbox also fits the bill if you want expandable storage.
So, let's see - most of this stuff isn't really that exciting, and you're even calling one thing a "feature" that Ubuntu doesn't have yet, but Windows does. Most of the stuff you can fill in with a third party app if you really want it anyways.
I'm not impressed.
It's a plus, if done right. Although I've never really been that impressed with the selection. How many text editors do you need, really?
"Huge range of pre-installed applications"
Not that it's terribly difficult to install apps on any OS. Usually the OEMs do a decent job of including the basics, even if they get a bit zealous with the junk.
A lack of apps can be fixed easily, though. You only really need to do it once.
"Greater user-interface and graphics efficiency"
I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced. Windows 7 is very efficient when it comes to graphics.
"Backgrounds and emblems"
*yawn*, not the most terribly exciting feature. I seem to recall you can do it, though? If not, I'm sure there's a third party app for that.
"Windows applications run on WINE"
Windows applications run on Windows too =).
Not an advantage, and probably still has a bunch of bugs. Or it did last time I tried it.
"Everything's in the browser anyway"
IMO that old, tired argument is still bull. But even if true, it's not like Ubuntu really has any advantage, since browsers run fine in Windows. Chrome is very much a dream on Windows 7, in fact. And have you even tried the IE9 tech preview?
"Customisability beyond a Windows user's dreams"
Mostly useless, and pretty complex. And they renamed half the keys on the keyboard too.
If you really want them, though, there's third party apps for customization.
"Multi-touch is on the way; single touch still works well"
Is this really called "Reasons for ditching Windows for Ubuntu 10.04"?
No, seriously. Windows 7 already has it.
"Ubuntu One: In-built cloud synchronisation"
I dunno if it will be built into Windows at some point, but Windows Live Sync fits the bill nicely.
Dropbox also fits the bill if you want expandable storage.
So, let's see - most of this stuff isn't really that exciting, and you're even calling one thing a "feature" that Ubuntu doesn't have yet, but Windows does. Most of the stuff you can fill in with a third party app if you really want it anyways.
I'm not impressed.
@CobraA1 "Windows 7 is very efficient when it comes to graphics."
Right. Then how come Aero requires a 1GB of RAM when Compiz can do the exact same on 256MB?
Right. Then how come Aero requires a 1GB of RAM when Compiz can do the exact same on 256MB?
@Zc456 +1! Absolutely right; this is something Microsoft should learn from Ubuntu!
Ubuntu is the my OS of choice. I gradually ditched Windows during the course of a year and it's the best move I've made. My computing time now is simpler, more reliable, enjoyable, less time-wasting and efficient. People who have been brought up on Windows or use Windows without thinking of anything else will not believe a word I say which is sad for them. I have been there and said the same things of non-Windows OS's as well, but fortunately, I discovered something better and want to share my lessons with others.
What can I do with Ubuntu? Hook up your phone for tethering, scanner, printer, camera, webcam, drawing tablets, hard drives, etc, etc. No mess, no fuss. Ubuntu has improved my computing time so much that if it doesn't work with Ubuntu I will not use it, or will not buy it, and in nearly all cases there is an alternative anyway. You'll be amazed at how much time, trouble and money that will save you.
I have Ubuntu 10.04 on my netbook and Ubuntu 8.04 on my desktop and both are wonderful, although Ubuntu 10.04 is a significant improvement. Make you life less cluttered and try Ubuntu 10.04 for 6 months.
What can I do with Ubuntu? Hook up your phone for tethering, scanner, printer, camera, webcam, drawing tablets, hard drives, etc, etc. No mess, no fuss. Ubuntu has improved my computing time so much that if it doesn't work with Ubuntu I will not use it, or will not buy it, and in nearly all cases there is an alternative anyway. You'll be amazed at how much time, trouble and money that will save you.
I have Ubuntu 10.04 on my netbook and Ubuntu 8.04 on my desktop and both are wonderful, although Ubuntu 10.04 is a significant improvement. Make you life less cluttered and try Ubuntu 10.04 for 6 months.
@root12 - great advice. When I tried out Ubuntu, I used an old laptop that I was ignoring after I upgraded to a new one. The old laptop (three years older than the new one) ran faster and better on Ubuntu than the new one did on Windows XP with twice as much RAM and a dual core processor.
Testing out Ubuntu is a great use for a legacy laptop that is just sitting around, gathering dust.
Testing out Ubuntu is a great use for a legacy laptop that is just sitting around, gathering dust.
Windows fanboys make me laugh. Sorry guys, IMHO Ubuntu kicks W7's butt. I have both on dual boot and Ubuntu "just works".
Windows seems to "just work" and that's because the manufacturers of hardware want it to seem that way.
When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked. I downloaded the W7 drivers for my laptop from HP's website and everything worked. I had two BSoD's over the next week, though (after those I didn't have any more).
When I installed Ubuntu, however (typing from it now) everything just worked. No stretched screen, nothing. A window popped up shortly after and showed me the NVidia driver I needed to install for optimum performance. I installed it with one click. That was easy!
The only part of my hardware that wasn't supported was my "toggle touchpad" button. My laptop is the only one I've seen with this though, so I just downloaded and installed QSynaptics and now I can turn my touchpad off and on from my notifications panel!
I was already started off with Gwibber, Evolution and OpenOffice. I still use those. Now that Chrome is availible for Linux (YESSSSSSSSS!!) I just downloaded the .deb file form Google's website and it installed with no problems.
Ubuntu also looks a lot better than the gimmicky little "aero" junk.
How you people don't like the Ubuntu Software Center blows my mind! The same fanboys that act like this doesn't matter are going to praise the crappy M$ version included in Windows 8. coughDouble standardcough
Ubuntu 10.04 is better than Windows 7 and it's available for the low price of $0.00! $200 less than a half-ususable version of Windows!
Windows seems to "just work" and that's because the manufacturers of hardware want it to seem that way.
When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked. I downloaded the W7 drivers for my laptop from HP's website and everything worked. I had two BSoD's over the next week, though (after those I didn't have any more).
When I installed Ubuntu, however (typing from it now) everything just worked. No stretched screen, nothing. A window popped up shortly after and showed me the NVidia driver I needed to install for optimum performance. I installed it with one click. That was easy!
The only part of my hardware that wasn't supported was my "toggle touchpad" button. My laptop is the only one I've seen with this though, so I just downloaded and installed QSynaptics and now I can turn my touchpad off and on from my notifications panel!
I was already started off with Gwibber, Evolution and OpenOffice. I still use those. Now that Chrome is availible for Linux (YESSSSSSSSS!!) I just downloaded the .deb file form Google's website and it installed with no problems.
Ubuntu also looks a lot better than the gimmicky little "aero" junk.
How you people don't like the Ubuntu Software Center blows my mind! The same fanboys that act like this doesn't matter are going to praise the crappy M$ version included in Windows 8. coughDouble standardcough
Ubuntu 10.04 is better than Windows 7 and it's available for the low price of $0.00! $200 less than a half-ususable version of Windows!
@UncleNinja
...and I'm saying this as Ubuntu user, mind you
When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked. I downloaded the W7 drivers for my laptop from HP's website and everything worked. I had two BSoD's over the next week, though (after those I didn't have any more).
Ok, so your display was botched until you installed the appropriate driver for Win7 and your laptop, then it worked. Have you ever used Windows before? Usually, on a clean install you have to load the display and LAN drivers.
On your Ubuntu load, you even had to load a driver, so it's no different...just the initial display was different.
Also:
The only part of my hardware that wasn't supported was my "toggle touchpad" button. My laptop is the only one I've seen with this though, so I just downloaded and installed QSynaptics and now I can turn my touchpad off and on from my notifications panel!
I don't get why you brought this up. With Windows, I'm assuming the "toggle" button worked, but w/ Ubuntu, it doesn't. Instead you had to settle for a software work-around.
But yet your trying to make the argument that Ubuntu "just works" and Win "seems to just work". In your case, I think it's the reverse.
Can you imagine a salesperson at Staples, showing a laptop, and saying "ah yes, this laptop runs Ubuntu Linux, but one thing about this laptop is this "toggle" button here doesn't work, you have to go in the panel to turn off the touchpad...but over here, we have the same laptop running Windows 7, and the "toggle" button is fully functional"
Look, again, I'm a Ubuntu user, but you said yourself hardware manufacturers want it that way...they know where their bread be buttered.
...and I'm saying this as Ubuntu user, mind you
When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked. I downloaded the W7 drivers for my laptop from HP's website and everything worked. I had two BSoD's over the next week, though (after those I didn't have any more).
Ok, so your display was botched until you installed the appropriate driver for Win7 and your laptop, then it worked. Have you ever used Windows before? Usually, on a clean install you have to load the display and LAN drivers.
On your Ubuntu load, you even had to load a driver, so it's no different...just the initial display was different.
Also:
The only part of my hardware that wasn't supported was my "toggle touchpad" button. My laptop is the only one I've seen with this though, so I just downloaded and installed QSynaptics and now I can turn my touchpad off and on from my notifications panel!
I don't get why you brought this up. With Windows, I'm assuming the "toggle" button worked, but w/ Ubuntu, it doesn't. Instead you had to settle for a software work-around.
But yet your trying to make the argument that Ubuntu "just works" and Win "seems to just work". In your case, I think it's the reverse.
Can you imagine a salesperson at Staples, showing a laptop, and saying "ah yes, this laptop runs Ubuntu Linux, but one thing about this laptop is this "toggle" button here doesn't work, you have to go in the panel to turn off the touchpad...but over here, we have the same laptop running Windows 7, and the "toggle" button is fully functional"
Look, again, I'm a Ubuntu user, but you said yourself hardware manufacturers want it that way...they know where their bread be buttered.
@SonofaSailor No, I had to go hunt down my driver on HP's website in W7. In Ubuntu it popped up and I only had to click a button. 
I agree about the touchpad button though. Besides, I never had it turned on. I just use my trackball.
I agree about the touchpad button though. Besides, I never had it turned on. I just use my trackball.
@SonofaSailor I just wanted to toss this in because it fits with the "toggle" portion. I was at the college tutoring one day, and it dawned on me that my wireless was connected (I did connect it, after all). The ironic thing is, the switch on the side of my laptop was off. So, if I had been on Windows, I wouldn't have had wireless. But on Ubuntu, I had wireless anyhow.
Not sure if that would be a bug or a feature though. And I haven't decided whether to bug it or not.
Not sure if that would be a bug or a feature though. And I haven't decided whether to bug it or not.
@UncleNinja
"When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked."
I can tell similar stories of Linux as well, and I've had flawless Windows 7 installs. A single bad experience does not a horrible OS make.
"A window popped up shortly after and showed me the NVidia driver I needed to install for optimum performance."
Considering nVidia has been placing driver updates in Windows Update - the same thing has happened to me. I'm guessing you only installed Windows 7 on your Compaq just to say you had a bad experience.
"I had two BSoD's over the next week, though"
This is why I don't buy Compaq anymore. They're well known for crappy drivers and hardware.
This is actually not the fault of Windows - it's the fault of Compaq.
"The same fanboys that act like this doesn't matter are going to praise the crappy M$ version included in Windows 8."
a) It's just a rumor at this point. We don't know for sure what will happen with Windows 8.
b) Package management in most forms of Linux I've tried is pretty crappy.
-The descriptions are almost never good enough to decide which of the choices are best.
-Sometimes (especially with games) there's really not much out there.
-It's often the case that something I want isn't available in the package manager. Some apps aren't even distributed in a compiled executable.
-Last I checked, package managers don't supply screen shots or reviews or ratings.
That ain't mind blowing by any stretch of the imagination. Steam and Impulse do a much better job, even if they're just for games.
c) You've already decided that if Microsoft tries it, it will be "crappy," so you are already being unreasonable. Pre-judging software that is only a rumor at this point is a sure sign of desperation.
Ain't no double standard, sorry. I've tried Ubuntu in a VM.
"Ubuntu also looks a lot better than the gimmicky little "aero" junk."
Details, please. I think Aero looks better, and is more functional (Aero snap, Aero peek, etc) than the Ubuntu default.
"When I ran a clean install of Windows 7 on my Compaq laptop, it gave me some crappy video driver (whole screen was stretched) and my hardware barely worked."
I can tell similar stories of Linux as well, and I've had flawless Windows 7 installs. A single bad experience does not a horrible OS make.
"A window popped up shortly after and showed me the NVidia driver I needed to install for optimum performance."
Considering nVidia has been placing driver updates in Windows Update - the same thing has happened to me. I'm guessing you only installed Windows 7 on your Compaq just to say you had a bad experience.
"I had two BSoD's over the next week, though"
This is why I don't buy Compaq anymore. They're well known for crappy drivers and hardware.
This is actually not the fault of Windows - it's the fault of Compaq.
"The same fanboys that act like this doesn't matter are going to praise the crappy M$ version included in Windows 8."
a) It's just a rumor at this point. We don't know for sure what will happen with Windows 8.
b) Package management in most forms of Linux I've tried is pretty crappy.
-The descriptions are almost never good enough to decide which of the choices are best.
-Sometimes (especially with games) there's really not much out there.
-It's often the case that something I want isn't available in the package manager. Some apps aren't even distributed in a compiled executable.
-Last I checked, package managers don't supply screen shots or reviews or ratings.
That ain't mind blowing by any stretch of the imagination. Steam and Impulse do a much better job, even if they're just for games.
c) You've already decided that if Microsoft tries it, it will be "crappy," so you are already being unreasonable. Pre-judging software that is only a rumor at this point is a sure sign of desperation.
Ain't no double standard, sorry. I've tried Ubuntu in a VM.
"Ubuntu also looks a lot better than the gimmicky little "aero" junk."
Details, please. I think Aero looks better, and is more functional (Aero snap, Aero peek, etc) than the Ubuntu default.
@CobraA1
(sorry, not trying to be a troll, I just think Ubuntu deserves praise for all the work volunteers have put into it :))
When I installed W7, I had never heard of Ubuntu. I thought W7 was the best OS ever. However, I tried out Ubuntu on a LiveCD and fell in love.
Those two BSoDs don't make W7 a bad OS, I've just never had anything like that in Ubuntu.
I disagree with your argument that it's Compaq's fault - this is the best laptop in my family - it p0wns the Toshiba Satellite. And if it really was Compaq's fault, why didn't it continue happening? :/
Besides, if I'm not having that problem with Ubuntu on Compaq, Windows on Compaq is still worse despite who's fault it is.
As for packages, have you even tried Ubuntu's Software Center? It's bliss man. It just works. Unlike Windows, I don't have to browse the web trying to find some legit website with the software I need. I just type in the software I want in the search panel of the Ubuntu Software Center, hit 'Install' and I'm done. And it does feature screenshots. You should really try out Ubuntu so you will know.
That's the most high-level installer. If I want I can use Synaptic, which lets you work with actual packages instead of just software. I used to hate that app, but now I love it. It's very user friendly and easy to use.
If I really want to dig in, I can also use apt-get or aptitude in the terminal. I only do that if I want to install a package really quickly. I haven't needed the terminal over Synaptic at any point though, it's just fast. If someone didn't wanna use the terminal, they don't need to.
As for Windows 8 Software center, I knew it was just rumor. However, I can't see anything better than the Ubuntu Software Center. That may sound biased, but I seriously doubt M$ developers can make that easy to use. No offense. It's not a sign of desperation on my part, but M$'s. Their current user friendliness is pretty bad.
Compiling an app? I've only had to do that with QSynaptics (aka touchfreeze) and Komodo Edit (what I used before I found ERIC. I love ERIC.). It's actually really simple. I don't know why you guys always have a problem with that. Just run qmake and make. Simple. They really should put QSynaptics in the Ubuntu repositories though.
[EDIT: Whoopsie! Touchfreeze (a later version even) is in the Ubuntu repositories. Looks like I didn't need to compile it at all! :D]
All the software an average user needs is in the repositories.
Good point, my Aero comment was a bit too inflammatory. Sorry. My point is that I shouldn't to pay $200 to upgrade to 7 from Vista to get some slight Aero improvements, y'know? Aero looks nice, sure, but I like Compiz effects better. That liquidy stuff is just awesome. If you want to make your Ubuntu windows look nice, there are tons of free themes that people have made that look great (WITHOUT installing slow software that could potentially mess up your computer ;)).
I don't need to have my windows side by side (Snap) when I can just maximize each one in a virtual desktop and swap between virtual desktops. They make it sound great on all the W7 demos, but I really don't miss it. If if Ubuntu did have that, it would mess up the cool feature where you can drag windows into different virtual desktops.
The closest thing Windows has to virtual desktops is a program called DeskSpace. It's awesome, but I can achieve an even better effect in Ubuntu with no extra software. DeskSpace was also really slow.
I don't really miss Aero peek either. If I want to single out a window or see my desktop, I just switch to another virtual desktop.
I see now why Windows 7 doesn't have virtual desktops built in - it defeats the point of most Aero features (at least for me).
I'm a student/developer/designer. I have Ubuntu installed on my 500GB Seagate Freeagent Go (tiny USB-bus powered external harddrive). The GRUB bootloader is on my internal hard drive. If I want to boot into windows, I just highlight the Windows bootloader and hit enter when I boot up. My internal drive is too small to break into two partitions (160GB :().
If I wouldn't have bought the $600 Creative Suite (education discount :D), the chance would be better that I would have just wiped out Windows and put Ubuntu in. However, sometimes I still need CS4 to update my Boy Scout Troop's website.
I use Ubuntu 99% percent of the time now though. I groan when I have to boot into Windows.
Interesting talking to you.
(sorry, not trying to be a troll, I just think Ubuntu deserves praise for all the work volunteers have put into it :))
When I installed W7, I had never heard of Ubuntu. I thought W7 was the best OS ever. However, I tried out Ubuntu on a LiveCD and fell in love.
Those two BSoDs don't make W7 a bad OS, I've just never had anything like that in Ubuntu.
I disagree with your argument that it's Compaq's fault - this is the best laptop in my family - it p0wns the Toshiba Satellite. And if it really was Compaq's fault, why didn't it continue happening? :/
Besides, if I'm not having that problem with Ubuntu on Compaq, Windows on Compaq is still worse despite who's fault it is.
As for packages, have you even tried Ubuntu's Software Center? It's bliss man. It just works. Unlike Windows, I don't have to browse the web trying to find some legit website with the software I need. I just type in the software I want in the search panel of the Ubuntu Software Center, hit 'Install' and I'm done. And it does feature screenshots. You should really try out Ubuntu so you will know.
That's the most high-level installer. If I want I can use Synaptic, which lets you work with actual packages instead of just software. I used to hate that app, but now I love it. It's very user friendly and easy to use.
If I really want to dig in, I can also use apt-get or aptitude in the terminal. I only do that if I want to install a package really quickly. I haven't needed the terminal over Synaptic at any point though, it's just fast. If someone didn't wanna use the terminal, they don't need to.
As for Windows 8 Software center, I knew it was just rumor. However, I can't see anything better than the Ubuntu Software Center. That may sound biased, but I seriously doubt M$ developers can make that easy to use. No offense. It's not a sign of desperation on my part, but M$'s. Their current user friendliness is pretty bad.
Compiling an app? I've only had to do that with QSynaptics (aka touchfreeze) and Komodo Edit (what I used before I found ERIC. I love ERIC.). It's actually really simple. I don't know why you guys always have a problem with that. Just run qmake and make. Simple. They really should put QSynaptics in the Ubuntu repositories though.
[EDIT: Whoopsie! Touchfreeze (a later version even) is in the Ubuntu repositories. Looks like I didn't need to compile it at all! :D]
All the software an average user needs is in the repositories.
Good point, my Aero comment was a bit too inflammatory. Sorry. My point is that I shouldn't to pay $200 to upgrade to 7 from Vista to get some slight Aero improvements, y'know? Aero looks nice, sure, but I like Compiz effects better. That liquidy stuff is just awesome. If you want to make your Ubuntu windows look nice, there are tons of free themes that people have made that look great (WITHOUT installing slow software that could potentially mess up your computer ;)).
I don't need to have my windows side by side (Snap) when I can just maximize each one in a virtual desktop and swap between virtual desktops. They make it sound great on all the W7 demos, but I really don't miss it. If if Ubuntu did have that, it would mess up the cool feature where you can drag windows into different virtual desktops.
The closest thing Windows has to virtual desktops is a program called DeskSpace. It's awesome, but I can achieve an even better effect in Ubuntu with no extra software. DeskSpace was also really slow.
I don't really miss Aero peek either. If I want to single out a window or see my desktop, I just switch to another virtual desktop.
I see now why Windows 7 doesn't have virtual desktops built in - it defeats the point of most Aero features (at least for me).
I'm a student/developer/designer. I have Ubuntu installed on my 500GB Seagate Freeagent Go (tiny USB-bus powered external harddrive). The GRUB bootloader is on my internal hard drive. If I want to boot into windows, I just highlight the Windows bootloader and hit enter when I boot up. My internal drive is too small to break into two partitions (160GB :().
If I wouldn't have bought the $600 Creative Suite (education discount :D), the chance would be better that I would have just wiped out Windows and put Ubuntu in. However, sometimes I still need CS4 to update my Boy Scout Troop's website.
I use Ubuntu 99% percent of the time now though. I groan when I have to boot into Windows.
Interesting talking to you.
@UncleNinja (sorry i posted a message asking why my previous post was reported as spam - must have been a bug because it went back to normal so nevermind )
@UncleNinja
"I disagree with your argument that it's Compaq's fault - this is the best laptop in my family - it p0wns the Toshiba Satellite. And if it really was Compaq's fault, why didn't it continue happening?"
The issue probably lies in drivers - hardware manufacturers often make drivers, and sad to say Microsoft may be getting the blame for code Compaq wrote.
It's also the case that many hardware bugs can be worked around via software. Many drivers also include firmware updates. I'm sure the Linux people know this as well as anybody else.
"As for packages, have you even tried Ubuntu's Software Center?"
Yup. Got Ubuntu running in a VM right now.
"I just type in the software I want in the search panel of the Ubuntu Software Center"
. . . and find 170 text editors, with no clue as to which ones are really the best. To make matters worse, many of them are merely variants of the same thing, and most users won't know which variant to use.
And oddly enough, Inkscape gets listed when searching for "text editor," even though it's clearly a vector graphics editor.
. . . or find 11 RPGs, none of which are anywhere close to AAA quality.
And take a look at Steam at least once. Take a look at how the proudly display some of their best titles on the front page. Look at how they aren't afraid to use nice, big, graphics to represent their games. A picture is worth a thousand words - and sadly, the small, minimalistic icons of the Software Center aren't saying much.
If you were to assign emotions to these virtual stores, "timid" and "confusing" would best describe Ubuntu's Software Center, and "bold" and "easy" would best describe Steam.
Yeah - it needs work. It's okay, but I would not say that it's anywhere near perfect yet.
"However, I can't see anything better than the Ubuntu Software Center."
Lack of imagination, eh? You tried Steam or Impulse recently?
They're mostly just for games, but if they were to become serious about Windows applications, they'd run rings around Software Center. And if Windows 8 came with something like Steam except for apps, it would run rings around Software Center.
"Compiling an app? I've only had to do that with QSynaptics . . ."
You can stop right there, thanks, as you've only confirmed my point.
"I don't know why you guys always have a problem with that. Just run qmake and make. Simple."
My mother will have a fit if she has to go to a command line and type "qmake." And she'll forget it if she ever needs to reinstall or upgrade.
Honestly, people like my mother wouldn't touch the command line no matter how "easy" they were.
"All the software an average user needs is in the repositories."
If you ever find a 100% average user, please let me know.
"I don't need to have my windows side by side (Snap) when I can just maximize each one in a virtual desktop and swap between virtual desktops."
It's a lot easier to use snapping if you're doing drag and drop operations. Why make the user to constantly switch between two virtual screens then the user can do it on one screen?
It's also the case that some people (such as myself) also use dual monitors, which also reduces the need for virtual desktops.
I actually find myself using the Aero features quite often, and often on XP or Vista machines I'll instinctively drag a window to the top to try to maximize it.
It's also the case that regular users often just can't think in virtual terms. I don't know the best way to explain it - but they just don't seem to be able to reason abstractly as well as you and I can. Making things as concrete as possible seems to work best in an environment designed to cater to a large variety of users. "virtual desktops" may be a bit too virtual for most people.
"My point is that I shouldn't to pay $200 to upgrade to 7 from Vista to get some slight Aero improvements, y'know?"
Most people will likely get it with a new computer, rather than via the upgrade path.
"I'm a student/developer/designer."
Same here, actually. You may be able to get it via the college's computer science program or at least get a student discount.
"If I want to boot into windows, I just highlight the Windows bootloader and hit enter when I boot up."
I've pretty much moved to virtual machines. Rebooting can be a hassle.
"sorry i posted a message asking why my previous post was reported as spam - must have been a bug because it went back to normal so nevermind"
ZDNet's software seems to have some weird sort of built in anti-spam measures if you modify a message too quickly after posting. I have encountered it as well.
"I disagree with your argument that it's Compaq's fault - this is the best laptop in my family - it p0wns the Toshiba Satellite. And if it really was Compaq's fault, why didn't it continue happening?"
The issue probably lies in drivers - hardware manufacturers often make drivers, and sad to say Microsoft may be getting the blame for code Compaq wrote.
It's also the case that many hardware bugs can be worked around via software. Many drivers also include firmware updates. I'm sure the Linux people know this as well as anybody else.
"As for packages, have you even tried Ubuntu's Software Center?"
Yup. Got Ubuntu running in a VM right now.
"I just type in the software I want in the search panel of the Ubuntu Software Center"
. . . and find 170 text editors, with no clue as to which ones are really the best. To make matters worse, many of them are merely variants of the same thing, and most users won't know which variant to use.
And oddly enough, Inkscape gets listed when searching for "text editor," even though it's clearly a vector graphics editor.
. . . or find 11 RPGs, none of which are anywhere close to AAA quality.
And take a look at Steam at least once. Take a look at how the proudly display some of their best titles on the front page. Look at how they aren't afraid to use nice, big, graphics to represent their games. A picture is worth a thousand words - and sadly, the small, minimalistic icons of the Software Center aren't saying much.
If you were to assign emotions to these virtual stores, "timid" and "confusing" would best describe Ubuntu's Software Center, and "bold" and "easy" would best describe Steam.
Yeah - it needs work. It's okay, but I would not say that it's anywhere near perfect yet.
"However, I can't see anything better than the Ubuntu Software Center."
Lack of imagination, eh? You tried Steam or Impulse recently?
They're mostly just for games, but if they were to become serious about Windows applications, they'd run rings around Software Center. And if Windows 8 came with something like Steam except for apps, it would run rings around Software Center.
"Compiling an app? I've only had to do that with QSynaptics . . ."
You can stop right there, thanks, as you've only confirmed my point.
"I don't know why you guys always have a problem with that. Just run qmake and make. Simple."
My mother will have a fit if she has to go to a command line and type "qmake." And she'll forget it if she ever needs to reinstall or upgrade.
Honestly, people like my mother wouldn't touch the command line no matter how "easy" they were.
"All the software an average user needs is in the repositories."
If you ever find a 100% average user, please let me know.
"I don't need to have my windows side by side (Snap) when I can just maximize each one in a virtual desktop and swap between virtual desktops."
It's a lot easier to use snapping if you're doing drag and drop operations. Why make the user to constantly switch between two virtual screens then the user can do it on one screen?
It's also the case that some people (such as myself) also use dual monitors, which also reduces the need for virtual desktops.
I actually find myself using the Aero features quite often, and often on XP or Vista machines I'll instinctively drag a window to the top to try to maximize it.
It's also the case that regular users often just can't think in virtual terms. I don't know the best way to explain it - but they just don't seem to be able to reason abstractly as well as you and I can. Making things as concrete as possible seems to work best in an environment designed to cater to a large variety of users. "virtual desktops" may be a bit too virtual for most people.
"My point is that I shouldn't to pay $200 to upgrade to 7 from Vista to get some slight Aero improvements, y'know?"
Most people will likely get it with a new computer, rather than via the upgrade path.
"I'm a student/developer/designer."
Same here, actually. You may be able to get it via the college's computer science program or at least get a student discount.
"If I want to boot into windows, I just highlight the Windows bootloader and hit enter when I boot up."
I've pretty much moved to virtual machines. Rebooting can be a hassle.
"sorry i posted a message asking why my previous post was reported as spam - must have been a bug because it went back to normal so nevermind"
ZDNet's software seems to have some weird sort of built in anti-spam measures if you modify a message too quickly after posting. I have encountered it as well.
Not at all better. I tried Ubuntu recently on my laptop AND desktop, and guess what? It didn't have drivers for some of even my 5 YEAR OLD hardware on the desktop, let alone the stuff on my laptop.
As I keep on saying: Ubuntu is going to be an 'also-ran' until they fix the driver issues and get the user interface to where the command prompt almost NEVER HAS TO BE USED FOR ANYTHING!
As I keep on saying: Ubuntu is going to be an 'also-ran' until they fix the driver issues and get the user interface to where the command prompt almost NEVER HAS TO BE USED FOR ANYTHING!
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